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View Full Version : Defiance Episode 11 Ratings.



Myria
07-02-2013, 01:42 PM
Defiance Ratings (source (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/07/02/monday-cable-ratingslove-and-hip-hop-wins-night-monday-night-raw-hit-the-floor-fast-n-loud-real-housewives-of-oc-more/189925/)):

(Episode #, viewers in millions, Adults 18-49 rating)

E01: 2.700 1.0
E02: 2.400 0.8
E03: 2.300 0.8
E04: 2.150 0.8
E05: 1.980 0.6
E06: 1.947 0.8
E07: 1.690 0.6
E08: 1.908 0.6
E09: 1.600 0.5
E10: 1.665 0.5
E11: 1.936 0.6

Note: The Demo (second) number is the important one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_ratings#Demographics). One point (1.0) represents (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_ratings#Ratings.2Fshare_and_total_viewers) 1% of the total potential viewership (id est, 1% of the number of people who live in TV-owning households) for Adults in the 18-49 age range.

EV76
07-02-2013, 01:43 PM
Nice an increase in viewership!

treadingwater
07-02-2013, 01:56 PM
Nice to see. I'm sure SyFy is happy with the numbers. No reason for it not to be around 2 million, the show has been bloody brilliant for the past 4 episodes.

freakster28
07-02-2013, 02:04 PM
Nice an increase in viewership!
As show went on it decreased... see how the numbers got smaller.

Xynnvincible
07-02-2013, 02:15 PM
A lot of people who watch this show are very computer savvy and prefer to stream it, which I don't believe is captured by the above ratings.

Myria
07-02-2013, 02:19 PM
I'm sure SyFy is happy with the numbers.

Honestly, while not a complete disaster, I can't imagine SyFy is at all happy with those numbers -- to put it mildly.

If the show was a cheap to produce family drama or something, those numbers would be fine, but it isn't. Worse, it gets handily beat by shows that are (The Fosters, for instance, at 0.7).

treadingwater
07-02-2013, 02:23 PM
Honestly, while not a complete disaster, I can't imagine SyFy is at all happy with those numbers -- to put it mildly.

If the show was a cheap to produce family drama or something, those numbers would be fine, but it isn't. Worse, it gets handily beat by shows that are (The Fosters, for instance, at 0.7).

You can't compare genre stuff like science fiction on SyFy to The Fosters. That should be obvious. Considering Syfy's overall viewership, you better believe they're happy around 2 million viewers. The network has been going downhill in viewership for years now. I'm sure they'd love 2.5 million and .8-1.0 across the board, but they have to earn that viewership back and not be known as the Wrastlin Ghost Hunter network. Even SyFy's top-rated show WWE Smackdown only 2.25 million and a 0.6. So if Defiance keeps it up it could be the top-rated show on the network. :P

In terms of costs, the fixed costs are all paid right now. I can't imagine variable costs are very high for the second season.

nathanpbutler
07-02-2013, 02:25 PM
As show went on it decreased... see how the numbers got smaller.

EV76 was commenting upon the increase in this week's episode over the last couple.

On the plus side, even during the slump, Defiance has managed to keep its numbers higher than the Stargate Universe slump that got that show (the last I personally cared at all about on SyFy until Defiance) dropped.

Donnyrides
07-02-2013, 02:26 PM
NBA finals and Stanley Cup playoffs are over. They don't have to compete against those for ratings for a week and the rating went up. If they try to have an active season during NFL football season, they had better move to Tuesday nights because they will get crushed by Monday night football.

treadingwater
07-02-2013, 02:31 PM
NBA finals and Stanley Cup playoffs are over. They don't have to compete against those for ratings for a week and the rating went up. If they try to have an active season during NFL football season, they had better move to Tuesday nights because they will get crushed by Monday night football.

Yah science fiction programming is dominated by male viewers who love sports. The NBA/Stanley Cup finals were a big part in the drop.

Remag Div
07-02-2013, 02:34 PM
Defiance won't be on during football season.

Indra Echo
07-02-2013, 02:39 PM
Defiance won't be on during football season.

Ha ha ha-good catch.

I think as we get to know the characters Defiance only gets better.

People today don't want much of a prologue in books or in movies or in tv (it's a trend in writing-in the past stories used to have big prologues that allowed you to get to know characters and their histories). So, all stories rely upon the writers being able to get you to identify with the people along the way. It's truly difficult when attempting to write 3 dimensional characters that can have good traits and bad ones. I think they're doing quite well with all that.

Myria
07-02-2013, 02:46 PM
You can't compare genre stuff like science fiction on SyFy to The Fosters.

Of course you can, and should. Ratings are inherently a competition and inherently a zero-sum game.


Considering Syfy's overall viewership, you better believe they're happy around 2 million viewers.

We'll have to agree to disagree there.


In terms of costs, the fixed costs are all paid right now. I can't imagine variable costs are very high for the second season.

I would be stunned if the per-episode costs of something like Defiance wasn't at least two orders of magnitude higher than something like The Fosters.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think SyFy is going to pull the plug. I doubt at this point they could even if they wanted to. But I don't believe for a second that it's performing at anything near the level they'd hoped for.

JonDav
07-02-2013, 03:02 PM
Yah science fiction programming is dominated by male viewers who love sports. The NBA/Stanley Cup finals were a big part in the drop.

I'm pretty sure not one NBA finals game aired on the same day as Defiance. I don't watch Hockey so I can't comment on which days the NHL finals were played.

brandileigh
07-02-2013, 03:04 PM
People always overestimate the ratings that Syfy gets for it's tv show. While I'm sure a company like Syfy would love to have ratings like a regular primetime channel they simply dont.

The ratings for the Defiance premiere were the best ratings for a premier since Eureka in 2006. The highest rated show ever on Syfy only drew like 4 million viewers ( random Warehouse 13 episode ).

Granted cost of making a show will factor into whether or not a show will get renewed but the point is that the ratings Defiance has are still pretty good, for a Syfy show.

hardy83
07-02-2013, 03:13 PM
I know this us US only ratings, but in Canada, they would probably have better ratings if they didn't air the show at friggin' 10pm EST!

Across the Badlands is over before the show is up here. lol

JxSiN
07-02-2013, 03:15 PM
The problem with ratings is that they do not catch all the ways the show can be watched. Usually the ratings posted are for the people who watch it on the channel as it happens. It does not take into account the streamers, on demanders, and DVR'ers. However, DVR ratings can be taken into account based on what system the rating is using. Some use the Live +7, where as long as you watch the show you recorded within 7 days, it will show up in a secondary release of ratings (and I am assuming you are posting the primary release of ratings). Those that don't use the Live +7 usually still can be counted for the secondary ratings, but typically have only 72 hours to be watched in order to count.

Some shows using the secondary (dvr) ratings can see a ratings jump as high as 40% for that episode. I think Modern Family had one of the highest increases due to DVR ratings, but I don't recall the exact number. On the same note, only the first time watching the recorded episode counts. Any subsequent viewings do not. So, let's say you watched the recorded show (or watched it as it was recording--which counts for primary but WILL NOT count for secondary) and loved it. You told all your friends about it who missed out on the episode. Instead of your friends waiting for it to re-air, they come over to your house and watch the recorded version. They never get counted for ratings.

Streaming does not count for ratings the same way that live viewing does. It doesn't hit rating numbers or things of that nature (and it is usually the production company tracking those numbers, not rating systems). There are 2 big reasons for this. First, while some sites allow "legal" streaming of movies/shows, there are two-five times as many that do so "illegally". Of course those streams will never get counted, not even by the production company. The second is money. Shows make money by advertisers. Which advertisers pay more money? On the tv, where more ad space is available and it can reach a broader audience OR on the computer, where ad space is severely limited and has a lower chance of reaching a targeted audience?

And finally, we have something else that has become popular over the years. On Demand. Plain and simple, On Demand viewing does not count towards ratings. Period.

Smoky
07-02-2013, 03:26 PM
You can't really bring streaming/online viewship into the equation, because it's not for any other show. Every show out there has to deal with it.

Myria
07-02-2013, 03:27 PM
Some use the Live +7, [...]

These numbers are live+SD, so while they do count some peripheral viewers you are right in that they'll miss a lot. However, I'm not convinced it matters, since the same can be said of any show and I'm fairly certain the various advertisers use their own variation on metrics anyway.

Not sure if live+7d is available anywhere for cable stuff, I've only seen it for major network shows, but it would be interesting to see what, if any, overall difference it made.

JxSiN
07-02-2013, 03:30 PM
You can't really bring streaming/online viewship into the equation, because it's not for any other show. Every show out there has to deal with it.

Exactly. Same with On Demand.

On a side note, which kind of audience do you think would be most likely to use a computer to watch a show (stream), soap opera drama-teers or sci-fi techies? And what kind of show is Defiance?

PS: Ratings aren't for viewers, they are for advertisers.

JxSiN
07-02-2013, 03:32 PM
These numbers are live+SD, so while they do count some peripheral viewers you are right in that they'll miss a lot. However, I'm not convinced it matters, since the same can be said of any show and I'm fairly certain the various advertisers use their own variation on metrics anyway.

Not sure if live+7d is available anywhere for cable stuff, I've only seen it for major network shows, but it would be interesting to see what, if any, overall difference it made.

Most advertisers (if not all) use Neilson's. Neilson's has the monopoly on the market.

JxSiN
07-02-2013, 03:34 PM
Also, for your reading enjoyment:

Nielson's are Shtako (http://splitsider.com/2011/01/why-nielsen-ratings-are-inaccurate-and-why-theyll-stay-that-way/)

treadingwater
07-02-2013, 03:35 PM
I'm pretty sure not one NBA finals game aired on the same day as Defiance. I don't watch Hockey so I can't comment on which days the NHL finals were played.

Well you'd be wrong because the final game was on a Monday and the Stanley Cup final as well./smh

JonDav
07-02-2013, 03:48 PM
Well you'd be wrong because the final game was on a Monday and the Stanley Cup final as well./smh

How about doing your freaking research. It's obvious you don't watch the sport, so use the internet to your advantage. The last game was on THURSDAY June 20. You kidding me??? Talk about "smh".

Sonickat
07-02-2013, 03:57 PM
Of course you can, and should. Ratings are inherently a competition and inherently a zero-sum game.


No you can't. That is like saying you have five customers. Three of them love Orange Juice and two of them Love Lemonaide and then putting an Orange Juice Stand and Lemonaide stand next to each other and looking at the results and going oh hey that is strange we had 3 choose orange juice.

Now if you had five people who enjoy orange juice and you have 3 different stands selling orange juice and then you analyze which juice they chose then it has meaning.

Myria
07-02-2013, 04:05 PM
No you can't. That is like saying you have five customers. Three of them love Orange Juice and two of them Love Lemonaide and then putting an Orange Juice Stand and Lemonaide stand next to each other and looking at the results and going oh hey that is strange we had 3 choose orange juice.

Honestly I have no clue what point you're trying to make.

Regardless, ratings are, as I said, inherently zero-sum, that's why the point/share system is constructed as it is. Shows of all types are, should be, and will be compared, because in the end advertisers by and large don't much care about what kind of show it is, they care about whether or not said show brings in the demo they care about in sufficient numbers.

Covington
07-02-2013, 04:12 PM
Yah science fiction programming is dominated by male viewers who love sports. The NBA/Stanley Cup finals were a big part in the drop.

Made me LOL.

Donnyrides
07-03-2013, 07:10 AM
Monday April 22nd 3 NHL playoff games
Monday April 29th - 3 NBA games
Monday May 6th - Bulls v Heat and Warriors v spurs
Monday May 6th - 4 NHL playoff games
Monday May 13th - 2 NHL playoff games
Monday May 13th - Bulls v Heat AND Thunder v Grizzlies
Monday May 20th - Blackhawks v Red wings
MOnday May 27th - Spurs v Grizzlies
Monday May 27th - Blawkhawks v red wings
Monday June 3rd - Bruins v Penguins
Monday June 3rd - Heat v Pacers
Monday June 17th - Bruins v Blackhawks
Monday June 24th _ Blackhawks v Bruins - FINAL GAME OF THE NHL STANLEY CUP!!!!

Sucks clowns want to question everything....

Remag Div
07-03-2013, 07:15 AM
Made me LOL.

Kinda true, though.

I know I didn't watch Defiance that Monday when the Heat vs. Pacers Game 7 was on. DVR'd it, of course.

Muffins
07-03-2013, 07:19 AM
Sadly, with no TV, none the less Pay-TV, I don't get to add to the Defiance ratings. Not that it'd matter since I doubt they'd count Australia into it.

But thanks for reminding me I need to get the latest ep. I needed to waste some time.

Shogo_Yahagi
07-03-2013, 07:21 AM
Of course you can, and should. Ratings are inherently a competition and inherently a zero-sum game.

We'll have to agree to disagree there.

I would be stunned if the per-episode costs of something like Defiance wasn't at least two orders of magnitude higher than something like The Fosters.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think SyFy is going to pull the plug. I doubt at this point they could even if they wanted to. But I don't believe for a second that it's performing at anything near the level they'd hoped for.

Then you're dead wrong.

First, the numbers that Defiance is getting are high enough that it has, at least once or twice, been the highest rated cable drama in its time slot. (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/04/23/syfys-defiance-continues-to-deliver-in-week-2/179394/) That's not highest rated sci-fi, it's highest rated drama in any genre, beating out well-established franchises that it competes against.

Second, Warehouse 13 was SyFy's flagship show, and they put it on after Defiance to boost Defiance's ratings. However, Defiance is getting significantly higher ratings than Warehouse 13. (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/07/02/monday-cable-ratingslove-and-hip-hop-wins-night-monday-night-raw-hit-the-floor-fast-n-loud-real-housewives-of-oc-more/189925/) Defiance: 1.936 million, 0.6 in the 18-49; Warehouse 13: 1.422 and 0.5.

Third, Comcast used Defiance's ratings as an example of their successful strategy when justifying a multi-billion dollar investment to their investors. (http://news.investors.com/technology/050113-654285-comcast-investing-in-programming-to-boost-ratings.htm?p=full) TL,DR? The company specifically uses Defiance's ratings to justify the cost of creating innovative new programming rather than relying on cheap filler.

Fourth, Comcast doesn't expect individual shows to make money. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/11/26/with-defiance-comcasts-syfy-bets-100m-on-convergence-of-tv-and-videogames/) While you're at it, did you notice that they called Warehouse 13 SyFy's highest rated show in that article? Not any more. Go back to my second point. Now add in the fact that the show already has a major sponsor dishing out tons of cash to promote the show. Compare Dodge's support of Defiance to Toyota's support of Warehouse 13. They're not even in the same league. Even Axe made Defiance-specific ads.

Trust me, the guys who signed this deal are knee-deep in scotch and gummi bears right now.

Also, despite the stereotypes, big sports events definitely hit ratings, even for sci-fi. I have a ton of friends who are big sci-fi geeks like me. They were all following the Blackhawks, even the ones who no longer live in Illinois. I watched Defiance and then flipped over to the game, because I'm hardcore like that. Even casual fans get interested when there's a big event. You are guaranteed to take a hit in the teams' home towns, even if you don't get hit anywhere else, and sports franchises are placed in major markets because that's where the people are.

Sonickat
07-03-2013, 07:26 AM
Honestly I have no clue what point you're trying to make.

Regardless, ratings are, as I said, inherently zero-sum, that's why the point/share system is constructed as it is. Shows of all types are, should be, and will be compared, because in the end advertisers by and large don't much care about what kind of show it is, they care about whether or not said show brings in the demo they care about in sufficient numbers.

I agree. Which is why you can't take two shows from different demographics (by extension probably genres) and use them as a comparison for one another.

Remag Div
07-03-2013, 07:31 AM
Knowing SyFy Season 2 could have 5 million viewers per show and they will still probably cancel it for something like Taboo Paranormal: I date a ghost

3rdpig
07-03-2013, 09:43 AM
Knowing SyFy Season 2 could have 5 million viewers per show and they will still probably cancel it for something like Taboo Paranormal: I date a ghost

I started laughing at your excellent joke...then I stopped and thought "that's not really a joke, SyFy is likely to do just that".

Pititful, ain't it?

Tyger
07-03-2013, 09:51 AM
v.v'

/headshake

EV76
07-03-2013, 09:56 AM
EV76 was commenting upon the increase in this week's episode over the last couple.

On the plus side, even during the slump, Defiance has managed to keep its numbers higher than the Stargate Universe slump that got that show (the last I personally cared at all about on SyFy until Defiance) dropped.


@nathanpbutler, yep that is exactly what I was trying to say! Thanks for the assist. Hopefully the season ender will be the biggest rated yet!

Shogo_Yahagi
07-03-2013, 10:14 AM
If you're predicting an early demise for Defiance, you may want to read the last two articles that I linked to. Comcast, SyFy's parent company, sees innovative new scripted programming as their way forward and considers it to be a better investment than low-cost filler material. They used Defiance's ratings as a specific example justifying this approach when justifying an almost 17 billion dollar investment to their shareholders. Cable programming generates almost 90% of their ad revenue, and a highly rated program allows them to increase ad rates for all of their shows on a channel, so it doesn't have to break even on the ad revenue sold during its time slot.

Sure, they will probably continue to have enough cheap reality show garbage to fill out the week's schedule and bring down their average cost, but the only way they can justify charging enough for ads in those timeslots to make a profit is by having some killer shows elsewhere in the schedule with good enough ratings to balance them out.

Given that they need highly rated shows to drive up ad prices for those turds, and given that Warehouse 13 has only half a season left to run, I'd bet that Defiance is more likely to run for 5 years than 2, barring some unforseen catastrophe. If they lose both next year, their ad revenue takes a nosedive across the board. By this time next year, Defiance will be their Monday night anchor show, and they'll be using its ratings to pull up the ratings of some whatever new show they're trying out as Warehouse 13's mid-season replacement. If nothing else, even if they decide Defiance isn't their long-term solution, SyFy will need time to develop some other show to take over as their flagship show.

Although many of us would have preferred to see shows like Eureka, Warehouse 13, and Stargate Atlantis get longer runs, all three of those examples ran (or will run) for 5 seasons, and have reasonably high episode counts considering that the number needed for syndication is dropping and alternative distribution channels like Netflix are making syndication itself less necessary.

drackiller
07-03-2013, 11:09 AM
This last episod was very good in my opinion. I think, one after another, the show is getting better, providing good info but whit a good amounth of mistery.
That is good in my opinion.

JxSiN
07-03-2013, 02:17 PM
There are only 3 programs on SyFy: Defiance, Face/Off, and crap (sorry W13 fans, I didn't like it but will say it is better than all the other crap on the station). The point is, I think Defiance is having great ratings being on a network that is basically synonymous for dog-poo. That's also a problem; Defiance would have better ratings if it wasn't on a network that is basically synonymous for dog-poo.

Zydrate
07-03-2013, 02:24 PM
I think the show needs to pick up some speed. At the moment it's just not intense enough. The last episode was actually pretty good as I felt some conflicts were finally coming to a head.

Past few episodes, I found it hard to care what was going on.

Covington
07-03-2013, 04:41 PM
I think the show needs to pick up some speed. At the moment it's just not intense enough. The last episode was actually pretty good as I felt some conflicts were finally coming to a head.

Past few episodes, I found it hard to care what was going on.

Sadly a good story is lost to the "not exciting or action packed" enough group. You can tella good story without a battle or death.

Now the game on the other hand... every new episode mission content is getting worse and worse.