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View Full Version : The Volge's effect immunity and animation inaccuracy need to be fixed



Alexri
07-05-2013, 07:56 AM
Let me first start off by saying that I love the Volge, think they're fairly well balanced (I wouldn't care if they became harder, but seems a lot of people have trouble with them as is), hope they stick around, etc.

However: There are two aspects of the Volge that I think need to be fixed.

The first is effect immunity. For those that haven't noticed, the Volge don't get stunned by electricity, they don't get knocked back by weapons like the Bull Rush, the Visceras don't care about poop shoes, etc.

I'm sure this was intended as a way of making them harder, but that in my opinion is very far from the case. The Volge are already extremely easy if you know how to kill them, which means that making them immune to effects like that doesn't make them harder, it just limits what methods you can use to kill them. I don't need to have the Bull Rush's one-time-per-enemy knockback effect to kill the Volge, but it would amuse me be to just around and knocking those things on their back. What Trion has done is essentially the equivalent of removing a hand grenade but leaving in a nuke in terms of how effective the removed tactics are compared to the ones left intact.

Second is the animation inaccuracy. It seems that whoever programmed the Volge mechanics didn't do a very good job of matching animations with actual behavior, with annoying results. One example is when a Viscera aims its gun and then fires at a 45 degree angle from where it's actually aiming. Another example is when dodging out of the way of those charge attacks doesn't work because sometimes it changes direction after the animation has started. This is just annoying, and needs to get fixed before the DLC introduces sieges with Volge in them. If I'm going to get knocked off my feet or shot by the Volge, I want it to be because I made a mistake, not because the programmers did.

Jack Johnson
07-05-2013, 08:05 AM
The issue is Sieges. If Volge suffer from hit-stagger and stunning effects, a swarm of players could basically neutralize their DPS output. Volge still suffer from hit-stagger from explosives though, and they can be hit-staggered by headshots when their shields are down.

I wouldn't object to standard troopers and bombers losing their CC-immunity and stagger resistance, but I think it is important that the viscera and elites keep their traits.

Alexri
07-05-2013, 08:09 AM
The issue is Sieges. If Volge suffer from hit-stagger and stunning effects, a swarm of players could basically neutralize their DPS output.

The day when people work together like that is the day the Volge stop shooting people and start handing out legendaries while singing christmas carols in castithan:P

Besides, if you have that many people, it would be quicker to just kill them.

WarHoundZero
07-05-2013, 08:11 AM
The aiming thing is what gets me I don't find it fair at all for a trooper unit to still be able to aim at me while I'm literally flanking them. Also It may be me but it seems like thick skin isn't activating after the drop to shields which is bothersome at times.

The Oncoming Storm
07-05-2013, 08:13 AM
Boomers work great,
If you could stun them with flashbangs they'd be too easy anyway...

fang1192
07-05-2013, 08:15 AM
The aiming thing is what gets me I don't find it fair at all for a trooper unit to still be able to aim at me while I'm literally flanking them. Also It may be me but it seems like thick skin isn't activating after the drop to shields which is bothersome at times.

You do realize thick skin has a cooldown right?

@alexri, they dont even need to work together. Just randomly throw out decoys and flashes (if they remove the immunity).

Anthalus
07-05-2013, 08:15 AM
Not noticed any animation inaccuracy myself but I do not doubt you are getting it so yeah that needs to be fixed but I disagree at least partly about the effect immunity, it seems the effects that work are the ones that it makes sense to work. Knockback would make no sense at all simply due to newtons laws (I know games cant follow the laws of physics all the time without being dull) in order to fire a projectile that would knock back something that size + weight the shooter would have to be sent flying in the opposite direction! (for doubters see Mythbusters Blown Away Ep) Electricty probably wouldn't effect something that likely has the capability of generating large amounts of it (they appear to be cyborgs), and poop shoes wouldn't mean much to a creature with what looks like a mechanical exoskeleton. I am interested to find out if the other effects work or not.

WarHoundZero
07-05-2013, 08:28 AM
lol I'm aware it has a cooldown but as I said it seems like it just flat out doesn't work OR the grunts sub guns eat right through it.

Indra Echo
07-05-2013, 08:38 AM
The issue is Sieges. If Volge suffer from hit-stagger and stunning effects, a swarm of players could basically neutralize their DPS output. Volge still suffer from hit-stagger from explosives though, and they can be hit-staggered by headshots when their shields are down.

I wouldn't object to standard troopers and bombers losing their CC-immunity and stagger resistance, but I think it is important that the viscera and elites keep their traits.

I have noticed they can be staggered by some things, just not those weapons that have that effect on everything else. It takes persistence or the "right hit" to stagger them. And the Troopers drop to their knees kind of like some other foes do when you hit a sensitive spot. They all can be interrupted mid-attack. The Viscera can be interrupted before they charge. And none of that is just relegated to certain weapons or effects. It's related to timing.

The intel on the Volge's vulnerabilities are not listed but it's all about timing. I like it that they aren't staggered by one shot from a Bull Rush and that they aren't slowed by poop shoes. I wanted them to be big, nasty, and a bit of a mystery. It makes no sense to have some overpowering big and nasty thing that a whole town was convinced would easily wipe them off the map and then have them be weak to poop shoes or bull rushes.

And I can at times easily defeat them on my own and then at other times I die repeatedly. I like that one mistake can get me killed. It just means I have to pay an extraction fee and then get back to where I died, but so what.

As for the Viscera changing direction. Well, it should. But it only can change direction in a straight line-it can't use Blur like we can and run all over. That's a weakness. The whole idea is that you should be well out of its line of sight BEFORE it bursts into a blue cloud and hurtles forward.

The other thing about the 45 degree angle attack well I'm not sure I've seen that happening but even that maybe does make sense unless the animation is showing them shooting straight forward and the hit is in another direction. But then that does happen in all games, most often in PvP. It could be related to some inherent lag. Even in this game in PvP, I've been killed by someone who is shooting when I'm behind them and almost have killed them. The animation clearly showed the person was not firing in my direction and yet with one hit I'm dead.

I'd hope this kind of thing would at least only happen in PvP where lag could more fully explain it, but then in a game where you are always online and sometimes the graphic spawns have to catch up with you (ever hit an invisible fence), lag does interfere even in PvE.

Indra Echo
07-05-2013, 08:43 AM
The day when people work together like that is the day the Volge stop shooting people and start handing out legendaries while singing christmas carols in castithan:P

Besides, if you have that many people, it would be quicker to just kill them.

You don't know what clans are for, do you?:)

In our clan we do a lot of things together and we work at many times to coordinate things. Even in coop with randoms I've gotten people to work together (dropped in right in the midst of fighting Dekuso and everyone died so we re-started with a plan and beat him). People do work together.

I don't think you'd ever get everyone to do hit-staggers and all but I do know when I've been in large groups if one person says something's working then a lot of the group will use it. Just like if someone says they got an orange from a certain box. It wouldn't even be about working together-just take a look at how it goes in PvP. Shotgun/cloak works, everyone starts using it. Immunizers work better, everyone uses them. And so on.

Alexri
07-05-2013, 08:45 AM
it seems the effects that work are the ones that it makes sense to work. Knockback would make no sense at all simply due to newtons laws

You can knock back Volge in all sorts of ways, e.g. just by shooting them. Explosions can ragdoll them, getting a shotgun killshot makes them fly backwards and disintegrate (if the weapon has syphon), etc. Not to mention that poop shoes, which are useless against Visceras, work perfectly fine on hulkers, even the boss ones in coop maps. Also wouldn't explain resistance to electricity.

Maybe it's just me, but if an enemy is to have a resistance, it should be to eliminate a way of killing it faster than otherwise possible. That's not the case here. Go up to a Volge with a Syphon SMG, aim at its face, hold down the trigger until it's dead, and that's your fastest method. The current effect immunity only serves to push everyone towards those ways of doing things, eliminating options, but not actually limiting kill speeds overall.

jazz
07-05-2013, 08:51 AM
in my experience I have seen the volge stagger from rapid repeated hits to their crit zone and I am able to use the intimidation perk to good effect after the stagger so I don't see much of a problem there

I can see electric nano ticking down their health but I don't see the flinching effect but usually with large enemies I rarely notice it anyway

the aiming thing is bothersome imho with them pointing in a completely different direction and hitting you can use a fix, basically now if you see the elite pointing a gun in any direction dodge, dodge, dodge and hope you don't get hit

the blur attack was a problem at first because even after dodging out of the way I was still getting hit but after doing 2 dodges now in a row whenever I see the blur animation starting I can safely get out of the way of that attack

Era
07-05-2013, 09:54 AM
Just freaking smack them with your gun to stagger them you wusses.

Jack Johnson
07-05-2013, 10:07 AM
Just freaking smack them with your gun to stagger them you wusses.

Does that even work when their shields are up?

Hope499
07-05-2013, 10:10 AM
Boomers work great,
If you could stun them with flashbangs they'd be too easy anyway...

Ya, we already just drive around MURDERING the poor volge, I actually feel sorry for them.... :( poor lil guys

Make them get stunned? omg it would be like fighting a group of raiders...

Tayxo
07-05-2013, 10:13 AM
The Volge are already extremely easy if you know how to kill them,

What? guess I've missed something. Could you explain the method that makes the Volge extremely easy to kill? Especially three soldiers coming form 3 different directions all shooting at you.

fang1192
07-05-2013, 10:18 AM
What? guess I've missed something. Could you explain the method that makes the Volge extremely easy to kill? Especially three soldiers coming form 3 different directions all shooting at you.

Well taking cover would be a good start. Decoy works. Putting a frag between their legs works better than youd expect.

Alexri
07-05-2013, 10:21 AM
What? guess I've missed something. Could you explain the method that makes the Volge extremely easy to kill? Especially three soldiers coming form 3 different directions all shooting at you.

Here's a sales thread of mine with two demo videos of Volge being killed with green, unmodded items:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?103474-EU-WTS-2x-Tachmag-Pulsers-w-Cannoneer-and-syphon-aka-quot-Volge-eaters-quot

Here's a continuous farming run where I do 7 emergencies in 16 minutes: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?101854-Video-7-solo-Volge-emergencies-in-16-min

And both of those are with FRAPS lagg throwing off my aim

Tayxo
07-05-2013, 10:25 AM
Well taking cover would be a good start. Decoy works. Putting a frag between their legs works better than youd expect.

OK, Decoy is something I never use, but could make it easier. I still don't think that 3 Volge coming from different directions are extremely easy to kill, but maybe that's just my definition of "extremely easy".

Tayxo
07-05-2013, 10:39 AM
Here's a sales thread of mine with two demo videos of Volge being killed with green, unmodded items: …

Wow, your Tachmag procs syphon really often. Nice vids, but not something I would call extremely easy - just not hard.

Alexri
07-05-2013, 10:44 AM
Wow, your Tachmag procs syphon really often. Nice vids, but not something I would call extremely easy - just not hard.

That +6 nano effect on critical hit perk is seriously underrated xD

Tayxo
07-05-2013, 10:46 AM
That +6 nano effect on critical hit perk is seriously underrated xD

I use that perk, but somehow I don't get the healing effect of syphon that often.

Tayxo
07-05-2013, 10:56 AM
I use that perk, but somehow I don't get the healing effect of syphon that often.

Just tested it, procs enough to keep me alive even with 3 soldiers shooting at me. Now I'll go back to use pistols and grenade launcher. Makes more fun :)

Alexri
07-05-2013, 10:59 AM
I use that perk, but somehow I don't get the healing effect of syphon that often.

Another tip is to make sure to not kill enemies with bullets. Syphon is a delayed effect, so if you focus fire on one out of three mods youll likely kill it with bullets and be killed because you dont get the syphon effect

Tayxo
07-05-2013, 11:12 AM
Another tip is to make sure to not kill enemies with bullets. Syphon is a delayed effect, so if you focus fire on one out of three mods youll likely kill it with bullets and be killed because you dont get the syphon effect

Ah, I will test that. If I fight against two enemies I bring the health of one of them down, but don't kill him, and then concentrate my fire on the second one hoping that the syphon effect will kill the first one.

Alexri
07-05-2013, 11:15 AM
Ah, I will test that. If I fight against two enemies I bring the health of one of them down, but don't kill him, and then concentrate my fire on the second one hoping that the syphon effect will kill the first one.

It killing him is a bonus, the main reason to switch fire is to get healed :)
I have 3 cannoneer syphon tachmags, two of which are green ones I got from Volge drops. I've been waiting weeks for specific mods for my main one, but since I now have several, I attached 3 "lesser" cannoneer mods on one of the green ones. LMAO that thing eats things when gives +9% fire rate and bonus effect chance