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View Full Version : defiance could have been so much more



HiMyNameIsBill
07-16-2013, 01:38 AM
it could have, couldnt it?

Arsenic_Touch
07-16-2013, 01:41 AM
Yes. Lots of squandered potential with this game.

GiantInMaine
07-16-2013, 01:42 AM
I agree hopefully it still can be so much more though. I admit though the future doesn't look the greatest but who knows.

Wtflag
07-16-2013, 01:53 AM
Three platforms
No experience developing console games
TV show forced schedule

They bite off more than they can chew.

roguestatus
07-16-2013, 01:53 AM
I think the first dlc will tell us alot about the direction they plan on going and what to expect in future drops

Blondin
07-16-2013, 03:15 AM
Could have be worst too...

We know that the game need more developing and work, some stuff is missing (I don't speak of the typical rpg system, no thx) but they have a good base to work on, they seems to have good idea, will they have the means to do it, will see.

ChaosOneX
07-16-2013, 03:23 AM
There was a time when I defended Trion. In fact, I used to dislike Arsenic here because I thought he was unjustly cruel.

I don't hold the bugs against the Dev Team. I do hold the apparant laziness in game design against them though. They put in almost no content for higher level characters because all of their focus was on making none of the players feel alienated.

I mean, the game is stuck on a permanent easy mode worse than Kingdoms of Amalur.

Arsenic_Touch
07-16-2013, 03:43 AM
There was a time when I defended Trion. In fact, I used to dislike Arsenic here because I thought he was unjustly cruel.



I'm making friends all over the place :p

Used to be in the same boat as you, defended Trion, gave others shtako for criticizing them. But that was because I played rift and came to expect that same level of attention from the company. Boy was I wrong. x.x

Daholic
07-16-2013, 03:55 AM
I think the first dlc will tell us alot about the direction they plan on going and what to expect in future drops

So what you've seen thus far hasnt been enough of a telling factor? The game is bad, one dlc isnt going to make change the game from bad to good, maybe servicable.

ChaosOneX
07-16-2013, 03:55 AM
I'm making friends all over the place :p

Used to be in the same boat as you, defended Trion, gave others shtako for criticizing them. But that was because I played rift and came to expect that same level of attention from the company. Boy was I wrong. x.x
lol

I just can't bring myself to accept that the company that made Rift was incapable of seeing these problems. I mean, bugs are one thing, but ****ty game development is another.

Strontium Dog
07-16-2013, 04:09 AM
lol

I just can't bring myself to accept that the company that made Rift was incapable of seeing these problems. I mean, bugs are one thing, but ****ty game development is another.

x1

Thats how i feel. I call the Defiance dev team school coders cause it seems like they have no one with experience in mmos even though they CLAIM there are Rift personnel on defiances team.

I've yet to see ANY proof of that at all.

Vega
07-16-2013, 04:54 AM
          

Indra Echo
07-16-2013, 06:52 AM
it could have, couldnt it?


There is no game I have played recently that the same could not be said of. And in part we hold our fair share of responsibility for the state of gaming. Games get released too early. Why? Because of the same reasons people are going all ape crazy about the DLC and because of competition. We're idiots and big name game companies can release dog crap and we still buy it by the millions. Trion isn't one of the huge companies that set the pace for what happens. Companies that can sell millions of copies of a game on release day are truly to blame for all of this and we just love them.

In fact, people on this forum that are unhappy with Defiance cannot wait for those big companies to release a future game that they just know will be the best ever, even when the companies involved have a track record of delivering crap.

HiMyNameIsBill
07-16-2013, 06:54 AM
Its a shame because i really would love to see this game go on to much better things. But at this rate with most of the people i see complaining about it the life span of this game probably wont last very long. Oh well i hope im wrong.

Indra Echo
07-16-2013, 07:03 AM
Yeah I'd have to say yes to the question. Was a bit bummed around release time of the game. Was not what I expected it to be but in the long run I'm glad it did not deliver what I wanted.

From it came an unexpected opportunity. It gave me something back that I thought I lost, my imagination. Something that rarely gets used anymore since most of what we imagined is created through CG. So who needs to? I feel like a kid again having fun in a playground, making up my own adventures as I go along. I made an imaginary friend based off of an NPC in game. I did a youtube video for that imaginary friend which I never have done a youtube video before. My creativity has increased. I'm thinking about so many ways I can make the Defiance Universe more entertaining.

There is a real K-Tam radio station that was created where fans can listen to other fans use their imagination in order to create a more interesting game world.

Its a uncompleted landscape but it is up to oneself and the community to finish the rest.
You put it into words so well. I feel so sorry for anyone that has to be spoonfed everything in order to have fun. The real story in any game is best when it's your story. I've played a couple other games that understood that with players that totally understood it. It's so sad that many in this game don't.

Yesterday, I ran from arkfall to arkfall and saw streams of cars doing the same thing. It was what I'd imagined it would be all along-like in the trailer. Every ark hunter racing to get the goods. And in one moment I put myself there. I was on Earth but an Earth that had been changed. And it was a race to get what was available.

The landscape is fantastic to me. And I think it's great that there's such a contrast between the bay area and San Francisco. I see the fast travel spots as little safe havens within a big sort of wilderness.

I play the game and imagine I am my character. I looked around last night and there were all these big burly guys and I'm this female ark hunter who can sometimes do better than them.

One time I was walking around and a car was following me-it was a friend of mine. For about half an hour he played land shark in his car as I went and tried to hide behind things while he was stalking me. It was a lot of fun. Silly but fun. It doesn't all have to be about some story someone made up to tell you. Make your own fun.

Great post, Vega.

Remag Div
07-16-2013, 07:17 AM
Game shoulda been PC only.

It would have been much much better

Sunfury
07-16-2013, 07:35 AM
I don't really see any glaring problems with the current product except for some of the missions. Its can be complex but its not deep. Its a 3rd person shooter with ties to RPG elements. Its meant to grab you with the action and the adventure which it does well on the surface of the game play. Does it need MORE? I don't know yet. I assume we will see more systems and features as we move on. I just want a good PvE shooter and so far its good.

I don't want another MMO that I have to log into every day and spend hours playing "epic calculator". The arkfall events are a ton of fun. The missions suffer from "same things, different day" mistake but I can accept that the game has just come out. The story line is good...considering its based on the show. The mass appeal is great. I love seeing 30 people coming together without the need to look for a group or spend hours in chat. This isn't a lobby game.

If you want a deeper, more complicated game that appeals to a different audience then by all means go find it.

I don't know why people always say "squandered what could have been / could have been so much more". That is such a ridiculous statement. ANYTHING CAN BE ANYTHING WITH INFINITE TIME AND INFINITE RESOURCES. That's like saying my car could have been so much more! My car could have been a fighter jet but all I got was this stupid car. (Even though I chose to buy the car...) That statement is the easy way out when you want to make a complaint but don't have any real substance. Its a forum trope and its rather weak.

So if it could have been more...you are more than welcome to make your own game or apply to Trion and help them out.

Blondin
07-16-2013, 07:39 AM
I don't really see any glaring problems with the current product except for some of the missions. Its can be complex but its not deep. Its a 3rd person shooter with ties to RPG elements. Its meant to grab you with the action and the adventure which it does well on the surface of the game play.

I don't want another MMO that I have to log into every day and spend hours playing "epic calculator". The arkfall events are a ton of fun. The missions suffer from "same things, different day" mistake but I can accept that the game has just come out. The story line is good...considering its based on the show. The mass appeal is great. I love seeing 30 people coming together without the need to look for a group or spend hours in chat. This isn't a lobby game.

If you want a deeper, more complicated game that appeals to a different audience then by all means go find it.
Thanks for this first post, full of good sense and mature approach of a game :)

3rdpig
07-16-2013, 08:25 AM
The real problem with the game right now, at least how I see it, is there is no content once you surpass EGO 1500 or so. And not only is there no content, you're actually punished for continued play. There are a host of minor problems as well, the two biggest to me are the lack of an intelligent loot/store system and the useless weapon bonuses, both of which have been there since day one.

I'll still play from time to time since I've got family and friends that play, but I won't put anymore money in it until I see some intelligent and meaningful changes.

In some respects the game reminds me of Far Cry 2. So much fun and potential marred by idiotic or just plain lazy design decisions with little intent to ever fix them.

Remag Div
07-16-2013, 08:28 AM
The real problem with the game right now, at least how I see it, is there is no content once you surpass EGO 1500 or so. And not only is there no content, you're actually punished for continued play. There are a host of minor problems as well, the two biggest to me are the lack of an intelligent loot/store system and the useless weapon bonuses, both of which have been there since day one.

Yup, it boils down to these two things.

This game will continue to go nowhere with the above two systems in place.

Shogo_Yahagi
07-16-2013, 08:38 AM
Game shoulda been PC only.

It would have been much much better
Game shoulda been made by someone who had made a console game before.

It would have been much much better.

Lollie
07-16-2013, 08:39 AM
Game is definitely limited by its association with consoles.

The PC interface is awful, needs to be fixed ASAP.

Sunfury
07-16-2013, 08:46 AM
Game is definitely limited by its association with consoles.

The PC interface is awful, needs to be fixed ASAP.

As much as I like the game, yes, this interface is not compatible with PC gaming. It works but barely. The aiming and combat is fine but they left out key toggles for PC players. Toggle aim (should have an ON option), toggle crouch (should have an off option).

The inventory setup is a C-.

The gameplay is fine. The interface needs a ton of work.

Remag Div
07-16-2013, 09:05 AM
IMO, the game needs 3 things to get better, and this goes back to 3rdpig's points.

1. Total rework of the EGO leveling system.
> Let's be real, the current system is crap. All the content can be completed before you even get close to 2000 EGO. I don't consider many of the Pursuits genuine content. So now at around 2000 EGO, what is motivating players to log in every night and continue? Nothing. In fact, the game as it stands now is punishing players for leveling. The game has a freakishly large level cap at 5000 but there's literally ZERO progression for about 3000 EGO levels.

2. Total rework on loot system and how the best gear is obtained.
> Again, total failure with these lockboxes. For those who played TOR at the start, the PvP sytem had a similar feature where the best gear was bought with PvP comms which were then used to purchase PvP boxes that had random gear. It was such a travesty that it was the first system reworked by BioWare when they patched the game. People don't want their playtime and progression rewarded with a lottery.

3. DLC DLC DLC
> If any game needed DLC yesterday, it's Defiance. Anything at this point would bolster some resolve with the community and get more people playing again.

Indra Echo
07-16-2013, 09:13 AM
Game shoulda been PC only.

It would have been much much better


The problem with that is that the PC market for everything has been slashed due to people using tablets. Game devs have to face some realities and that's that they need the largest exposure for their games. That means less console exclusive content-this began a few years ago, that some bigger companies started to reject the idea of offering content only for one console or DLC months earlier for another. This makes some things more difficult but it increases potential sales-it can be a good thing since some titles might never see the light of day if there's no money in it.

As for the PC interface well you are all assuming it's ergonomic for console players. It's not so good in some areas and hopefully there are things that will get addressed in relation to all of that.

The other problem is that rightly or wrongly, hacking, modding, and all that seems to be more pervasive on PCs. As much as we have arguments now about a lot of things, when a PC MMO is hacked or modded, that takes argument to a new level. Devs don't like for arguing to occur on their sites, because it just plain looks bad. And yes, I know there are plenty of exploits used in the console versions of things too.

Personally, I used to just love games on the PC and console games seemed to be like toys by comparison. For the deep great stories, I'd go with the PC but things changed and some of what was great about all gaming is just gone. Now I like that Defiance is a shooter, but I do wish someone out there would create something more like Mass Effect before ME3 became so much more of a shooter and with a great story line that doesn't insult the intelligence and without the idiotic flaws. Since games became more action heavy, I just tended to want to use a controller more than a keyboard, and not everything works on the controller.

Unfair, yeah I guess. Sorry.

Samyaza
07-16-2013, 09:53 AM
Defiance now...

Throw in a bit of world of warcraft goodness

open world pvp "real open worlds" (no loading between areas) cites rival factions (echlon, irathan, raiders, law keepers, caths all at war with eachother)


Bit of some good ol' diablo 2
Stats limited skill points (for build diversities)

Some sexiness out of other FPS
Class base loadouts class based perks

Sexiness out of borderlands
Weapons do not share ammo

Some stuff from guildwars
guild controlled land

Stuff from Starwars galaxy
user controlled houses & stores

Something that everyone hates in diablo 3
gold & RMAH

A little chemical X and boom....

What defiance could of been

UncivilS3rvant
07-16-2013, 10:04 AM
All the content can be completed before you even get close to 2000 EGO. I don't consider many of the Pursuits genuine content. So now at around 2000 EGO, what is motivating players to log in every night and continue?

Maybe I'm spoilt by not playing many MMO's but I'd suggest you find something else to play and come back. Why play every night? That baffles me. Yes, there are occasions when I will log in on consecutive nights but I have other things to do and games to play, I'm not interested in completing everything in the fastest time possible and then complain because there's nothing left to do.

cesmode
07-16-2013, 10:16 AM
You guys speak as if the game is dead, had its chance and is spiraling toward an inevitable doom. That its going to share the same fate SWTOR did, only the next major decision is to stop development and turn off the servers.

What game has been worth anyone's spit that has been released since WoW? WoW wasn't the first MMO but many hold every other mmo-esq game up to those standards. If it doesnt have raids, it fails. If it doesnt have 5 man normal, 5 man heroic it fails. If there are loading screens it fails. If there arent quest hubs, it fails. If there aren't breadcrumbs to show you where to go, it fails. If there aren't dwarves and elves, it fails. If there isnt open world PVP, it fails. If there isnt arena/esport pvp it fails. If there are bugs, it fails. If there are bugs during open beta, it fails. If theres lag, it fails.

If it's name is not world of warcraft, it fails.


Amirite?

I know a lot of you have probably never played wow, and this post is not directed toward you. But most MMO players have played WoW and most hold every other game after WoW to the world of warcraft standard. It is a mental condition. Can't a developer make a game without having to worry "am i doing it like the most succesful dev has? Is this what they would do in our shoes?"

I have played defiance for only a few hours, but I've played almost a dozen MMOs for long enough time to see the same..godamn..friggin pattern every launch. Its the same everywhere. MMO players are impossible to please.

outbackjim21
07-16-2013, 10:30 AM
Yeah I'd have to say yes to the question. Was a bit bummed around release time of the game. Was not what I expected it to be but in the long run I'm glad it did not deliver what I wanted.

From it came an unexpected opportunity. It gave me something back that I thought I lost, my imagination. Something that rarely gets used anymore since most of what we imagined is created through CG. So who needs to? I feel like a kid again having fun in a playground, making up my own adventures as I go along. I made an imaginary friend based off of an NPC in game. I did a youtube video for that imaginary friend which I never have done a youtube video before. My creativity has increased. I'm thinking about so many ways I can make the Defiance Universe more entertaining.

There is a real K-Tam radio station that was created where fans can listen to other fans use their imagination in order to create a more interesting game world.

Its a uncompleted landscape but it is up to oneself and the community to finish the rest.
This wouldn't be a problem if trion actually put some effort into thier lore to begin with. Right now, if it wasn't for the tv show, we players would have absolutely no idea what were the traditions and cultures of the Votan races. Would you have any idea that the irathients were a nomadic race, no; would you have known that liberata were typically a servant race, no; how about the shaming laws of the casthithans, no.

^ this is bad storytelling, it's okay to drop a player into a world and leave them to their devices, but only if you flesh out the world that the player is released into. And data recorders are a slight fail, most of them give insight into events that are currently going on in a mission, no backstory, and the ones that do give backstory have the exact same theme, racial tensions. Even then, those themes aren't explored in the game, from the looks of things votans and humans get along pretty damn well( especially when they are trying to kill you), the only racial tension you get is from nim, but nim isn't the Jesse Jackson of votans so it's a moot point that the theme is actually explored.


How can you give your character backstory if the very foundation of what you re building your story on doesn't provide one itself.

brandileigh
07-16-2013, 10:32 AM
You guys speak as if the game is dead, had its chance and is spiraling toward an inevitable doom. That its going to share the same fate SWTOR did, only the next major decision is to stop development and turn off the servers.

What game has been worth anyone's spit that has been released since WoW? WoW wasn't the first MMO but many hold every other mmo-esq game up to those standards. If it doesnt have raids, it fails. If it doesnt have 5 man normal, 5 man heroic it fails. If there are loading screens it fails. If there arent quest hubs, it fails. If there aren't breadcrumbs to show you where to go, it fails. If there aren't dwarves and elves, it fails. If there isnt open world PVP, it fails. If there isnt arena/esport pvp it fails. If there are bugs, it fails. If there are bugs during open beta, it fails. If theres lag, it fails.

If it's name is not world of warcraft, it fails.


Amirite?

I know a lot of you have probably never played wow, and this post is not directed toward you. But most MMO players have played WoW and most hold every other game after WoW to the world of warcraft standard. It is a mental condition. Can't a developer make a game without having to worry "am i doing it like the most succesful dev has? Is this what they would do in our shoes?"

I have played defiance for only a few hours, but I've played almost a dozen MMOs for long enough time to see the same..godamn..friggin pattern every launch. Its the same everywhere. MMO players are impossible to please.

That's shame on them for playing up the MMO aspects of a shooter game and making a UI that is just a tragedy for PC users.

If you can't atleast live up to the expectations of an almost decade old game on a functional level then you are doing it wrong.

cesmode
07-16-2013, 10:35 AM
Didn't they begin to pull away from chalking the game up as an MMO at some point PRIOR to launch?

However, still, it is not good game development to meet the expectations of a decade old game. Must try new things. Who knows, the interface could have been the next big thing in gaming. Just turns out, it was the opposite.

Remag Div
07-16-2013, 11:05 AM
Maybe I'm spoilt by not playing many MMO's but I'd suggest you find something else to play and come back. Why play every night? That baffles me. Yes, there are occasions when I will log in on consecutive nights but I have other things to do and games to play, I'm not interested in completing everything in the fastest time possible and then complain because there's nothing left to do.

An MMO that doesn't entice you to play it everyday is a failure.

WarHoundZero
07-16-2013, 11:22 AM
There's a major issue with this game and you'll more than likely see it by the end of the season passes dlc. I have a sneaky suspicion that we were sold an incomplete product and that the dlc is infarct what should of launched with the game. Another issue is they decided to release on three consoles and would of been okay just releasing this on the PC and 360*this is the perspective of a ps3 player mind you*. Idk this game imho one of the worst mmo's I've played which isn't extensive but I've been around the blocc long enough to understand that Trion really messed up trying to use this game as fodder for the show.

medohgeuh
07-16-2013, 11:33 AM
You guys speak as if the game is dead, had its chance and is spiraling toward an inevitable doom. That its going to share the same fate SWTOR did, only the next major decision is to stop development and turn off the servers.

What game has been worth anyone's spit that has been released since WoW? WoW wasn't the first MMO but many hold every other mmo-esq game up to those standards. If it doesnt have raids, it fails. If it doesnt have 5 man normal, 5 man heroic it fails. If there are loading screens it fails. If there arent quest hubs, it fails. If there aren't breadcrumbs to show you where to go, it fails. If there aren't dwarves and elves, it fails. If there isnt open world PVP, it fails. If there isnt arena/esport pvp it fails. If there are bugs, it fails. If there are bugs during open beta, it fails. If theres lag, it fails.

If it's name is not world of warcraft, it fails.


Amirite?

I know a lot of you have probably never played wow, and this post is not directed toward you. But most MMO players have played WoW and most hold every other game after WoW to the world of warcraft standard. It is a mental condition. Can't a developer make a game without having to worry "am i doing it like the most succesful dev has? Is this what they would do in our shoes?"

I have played defiance for only a few hours, but I've played almost a dozen MMOs for long enough time to see the same..godamn..friggin pattern every launch. Its the same everywhere. MMO players are impossible to please.

This guy gets it.

All the complaints I've seen on this forum are no different from any other MMO and I've been playing these types of games since Anarchy Online.

Sunfury
07-16-2013, 11:35 AM
Defiance now...

Throw in a bit of world of warcraft goodness

open world pvp "real open worlds" (no loading between areas) cites rival factions (echlon, irathan, raiders, law keepers, caths all at war with eachother)


Bit of some good ol' diablo 2
Stats limited skill points (for build diversities)

Some sexiness out of other FPS
Class base loadouts class based perks

Sexiness out of borderlands
Weapons do not share ammo

Some stuff from guildwars
guild controlled land

Stuff from Starwars galaxy
user controlled houses & stores

Something that everyone hates in diablo 3
gold & RMAH

A little chemical X and boom....

What defiance could of been


Classical mistake of armchair devs like yourself:
Take all features of all games you like and throw them into one game.

That's how you end up with a development mess and a convoluted product that doesn't have a clear direction. That's when people start leaving because they literally don't know what to do or have too much to do.

Features need to compliment each other. Every game on the planet doesn't need every feature.

Sunfury
07-16-2013, 11:39 AM
An MMO that doesn't entice you to play it everyday is a failure.

I played WoW for 7 years and I didn't feel compelled to log in every day. I have something called "self control".

An MMO needs to entice the player to KEEP PLAYING. Logging in every day has nothing to do with sticking around.

You also have to remember that Defiance is more borderlands than WoW. Its not really an MMO like the "classical" MMO formula.

Too many people have the thought that THEIR idea of an MMO is THE definition of how its supposed to be. You play and judge a product for what it is, not what you want it to be.

If you don't like a product you have a right to not play it. You have a right to suggest ideas or add criticism. Forums, though, are borderline soapboxes for self important gamers who feel like they should be running the industry because "they know better".

Remag Div
07-16-2013, 11:50 AM
I played WoW for 7 years and I didn't feel compelled to log in every day. I have something called "self control".

An MMO needs to entice the player to KEEP PLAYING. Logging in every day has nothing to do with sticking around.

Well, this game fails at that, too. lol

Sunfury
07-16-2013, 12:21 PM
Well, this game fails at that, too. lol

The you should have no problems quitting and playing something you enjoy.

3rdpig
07-16-2013, 12:23 PM
This guy gets it.

All the complaints I've seen on this forum are no different from any other MMO and I've been playing these types of games since Anarchy Online.


So by now is it unrealistic to expect them not to make the same mistakes over and over and over? Good God man, good shooter and RPG UI's for both consoles and PC's have been around for decades, yet game companies still act like it's some kind of voodoo magic? And the same can be said for weapon mods, stats and character progression. Reinventing the wheel with each new game is both time consuming and futile. Learn from the good examples of the past and don't repeat the bad examples.

jbob spittlewop
07-16-2013, 01:47 PM
Indeed it could have. I still enjoy the game, but it could have been a lot better. IMO they should have released it on only one platform at first(ideally Xbox :P). I attribute most of this games issues to trying to balance all the beaurocratic bull**** for supporting three platforms. Nothing stops progress like beaurocracy.

dbcameron
07-16-2013, 02:04 PM
Indeed it could have. I still enjoy the game, but it could have been a lot better. IMO they should have released it on only one platform at first(ideally Xbox :P). I attribute most of this games issues to trying to balance all the beaurocratic bull**** for supporting three platforms. Nothing stops progress like beaurocracy.

Amen to that. ( though I would have said PC ^_^)

But It could have been better, it could still be better. I'm just tired of people thinking this is a done and over conversation three months after release. It started bad, got better step by step, and we'll see what happens with the rest of it.

Ataraxia
07-16-2013, 02:10 PM
Defiance is an average, mediocre-ish attempt at a MMOTPS. If Trion added more MMORPG elements to the game... I'm pretty sure it would satisfy 80ish% of the community. I feel its the only direction Trion can take to succeed with this game.

Remag Div
07-16-2013, 02:12 PM
More reasons the game would have been better on PC:

- Way better graphics optimized for current PC's instead of being held back by crappy 360/PS3 hardware
- UI could have been designed from the ground up on PC-only instead of pleasing the console crowd
- DLC and patches don't have to go through an awful inspection process from Microsoft and Sony which they need to approve
- They could have focused their efforts on ONE version of the game instead of THREE
- PC's smell better

dbcameron
07-16-2013, 02:16 PM
If you're talking about quest hubs, crafting, better trading systems and more clan support then Yes!

If you're talking about the standard gear grind for a more powerful gun then I'll pass.

UncivilS3rvant
07-16-2013, 02:22 PM
So by now is it unrealistic to expect them not to make the same mistakes over and over and over? Good God man, good shooter and RPG UI's for both consoles and PC's have been around for decades, yet game companies still act like it's some kind of voodoo magic? And the same can be said for weapon mods, stats and character progression. Reinventing the wheel with each new game is both time consuming and futile. Learn from the good examples of the past and don't repeat the bad examples.

This is why every game that is released is an instant classic, because game development is ancient and therefore everyone knows what they're doing and how to do it.

barbzilla
07-16-2013, 04:28 PM
You put it into words so well. I feel so sorry for anyone that has to be spoonfed everything in order to have fun. The real story in any game is best when it's your story. I've played a couple other games that understood that with players that totally understood it. It's so sad that many in this game don't.

Yesterday, I ran from arkfall to arkfall and saw streams of cars doing the same thing. It was what I'd imagined it would be all along-like in the trailer. Every ark hunter racing to get the goods. And in one moment I put myself there. I was on Earth but an Earth that had been changed. And it was a race to get what was available.

The landscape is fantastic to me. And I think it's great that there's such a contrast between the bay area and San Francisco. I see the fast travel spots as little safe havens within a big sort of wilderness.

I play the game and imagine I am my character. I looked around last night and there were all these big burly guys and I'm this female ark hunter who can sometimes do better than them.

One time I was walking around and a car was following me-it was a friend of mine. For about half an hour he played land shark in his car as I went and tried to hide behind things while he was stalking me. It was a lot of fun. Silly but fun. It doesn't all have to be about some story someone made up to tell you. Make your own fun.

Great post, Vega.


You are right, in that this can be the most entertaining gameplay experience you can have. There is a name for it as well. It is called emergent gameplay. Emergent gameplay is a gameplay experience created by the player using the tools the developers gave them in the form of an open world. This type of gameplay can be seen easily in games like Eve online and Star Wars Galaxies. Defiance wasn't set up well for this type of gameplay though. In fact the community aspect of the game took a sideline and many of our complaints during early alpha, beta, and open beta were ignored when we begged the devs to fix the interface and allow better community interaction.

Defiance was set up to be an on the rails game. You may have some choice in what you do, but everything is locked behind barriers that require you do this or that to unlock something else. This may make the game more accessible, but it doesn't help emergent gameplay. The game was crafted to tell us a story, and it did that fairly well (I think), but that doesn't add longevity. We were given some story missions to coincide with the show, in the hopes that watching the show would help add interest into the game world, so people would log on weekly to play a few rounds of pvp, do a mission, and hopefully buy something.

Part of the issue was the investment level. Since Comcast decided to split the investment between a show and a game, we only had half the budget for both (well more like three quarters actually). This left everything feeling a bit rushed. The game came out half cocked, and the show lacks a coherent storyline (though they did finally get to the point by episode 12). All we can hope for at this point is that they make enough off of advertising and game sales to actually ramp up the development on both products and deliver an experience worthwhile to both the consumer and the investor.

medohgeuh
07-16-2013, 08:44 PM
So by now is it unrealistic to expect them not to make the same mistakes over and over and over? Good God man, good shooter and RPG UI's for both consoles and PC's have been around for decades, yet game companies still act like it's some kind of voodoo magic? And the same can be said for weapon mods, stats and character progression. Reinventing the wheel with each new game is both time consuming and futile. Learn from the good examples of the past and don't repeat the bad examples.

My point was more that it's usually the player base the issue is with, not the game itself. There's this tendency amongst gamers today to approach everything with a set of unwarranted expectations. Assuming perfection is possible will always lead to disappointment and I admit this as one of the most notorious perfectionists I know of. ;)

The sooner people realize this, the better.

I don't even see what the big deal is about the UI once you plug a gamepad in, it makes enough sense to me after that. I've seen way worse i.e. the first Borderlands which Defiance is often compared to. I don't really give a **** about stats or whatever, eitherů this isn't a glorified spreadsheet we're talking about here and that's just fine with me.


- They could have focused their efforts on ONE version of the game instead of THREE

Only legit complaint in your list. The rest is all PC elitism horse****.

Ataraxia
07-16-2013, 08:47 PM
If you're talking about quest hubs, crafting, better trading systems and more clan support then Yes!

If you're talking about the standard gear grind for a more powerful gun then I'll pass.

Ew hell no, the best part of this game is that the gameplay is skillbased! That's probably the only thing that keeps me from leaving the game.

Daholic
07-16-2013, 08:57 PM
My point was more that it's usually the player base the issue is with, not the game itself. There's this tendency amongst gamers today to approach everything with a set of unwarranted expectations. Assuming perfection is possible will always lead to disappointment and I admit this as one of the most notorious perfectionists I know of. ;)

The sooner people realize this, the better.

Noone is asking for perfection, the high expectation from fans have to be shouldered by Trion mostly. We all know in the attempt to sell copies, they show some appealing gameplay, ****, all companies do it, but once you purchase the product and you find out its a dumbed down version of Time Splitters, then people will complain.

The whole purpose of an mmo-esque game is to keep players engaged and interested.

Pure comedy here..check this out...How many time have you heard someone say "Oh, I left Wow because I got sick and bored with it, but gee-willickers Defiance sure has got me hooked with its simple dumbed down mechanics that cater to my play style, uninteresting gear progression including a slot machine type lock box that makes weapons totally random, this to caters to my simple play style that allows me to LUCKLY get the best gear without actually doing anything of skill to get it"

Daholic
07-16-2013, 09:02 PM
Ew hell no, the best part of this game is that the gameplay is skillbased! That's probably the only thing that keeps me from leaving the game.

Skillbased??? Like running, dodging, shooting, rolling, and stying the hell out the way of fire? Sounds more like common sence that skill, but hey im sure theirs people out there who thinks it takes skill to unlock a door, to a home they've owned for 20+ years.

jbob spittlewop
07-16-2013, 09:02 PM
This game is not skill based. Disagree? Prove me wrong. Finish first in a pvp match using a Disruptor. After that we can talk.

Vega
07-17-2013, 12:25 AM
          

HiMyNameIsBill
07-17-2013, 07:19 AM
Hmmmmmmmmm.

Remag Div
07-17-2013, 08:28 AM
Only legit complaint in your list. The rest is all PC elitism horse****.

It's all true and you know it. Especially the smelling better part.