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XGC Cipher
07-24-2013, 05:34 AM
Last I heard though trusting the players wasn't the trust issues called into question

Veld
07-24-2013, 05:36 AM
I think he may have been trying to be a bit light hearted to try and disarm any potential for tension. It didn't work, but he tried i guess. About the only positive i take out of it...is someone at Trion said something.

Dave Blackwell
07-24-2013, 05:53 AM
Last I heard though trusting the players wasn't the trust issues called into question

Mentioning this before another thread blows out of proportion.

Just because August was mentioned does not necessarily guarantee that any DLC will see the light of day. It's the same reason April, May and July were mentioned as potential release dates for the first batch of DLC, did that prove to be true? No. However, everyone needs to remind themselves that just because a month has been said that isn't a concrete date.

Trion holds every right to suggest a date for release and then push it back for as much as they want. Honestly, those who are throwing up arms over the DLC being used to play tennis with are working themselves over something none of us have any control over. As I had mentioned before in another thread concerning this same topic, this is why what has happened has;


A. Pre-Purchase
From time to time, Trion may sell digital versions of certain Game(s), Virtual Items), products or services through the Store prior to their actual commercial release date. The purchase of such Game(s), products and services are subject to the terms of each such offer as detailed in the applicable product description on the Store.

If you purchase a digital product through the Store (such as a Game or Virtual Item), you will (i) receive an e-mail verification of receipt of your purchase; (ii) be granted any related entitlements on your Account (such as bonus items, beta or early access, and/or a Game); (iii) be entitled to access such Game, product or service upon its commercial release; and (iv) not receive any physical product from Trion.

Any game time entitlements (such as thirty (30) days game time included with purchase of a Game by a new Game Account) shall commence upon your initial log in to your Account following such Game’s commercial release.

Please keep in mind that all release dates are estimates only and are subject to change.

This pretty much means that not only this DLC but the ones that will follow after it can be treated in the same way as this first batch is getting, that Trion can do it as many times as they please and that losing the head over it is more or less a waste of time. We've all agreed to these terms too by registering accounts to this site, along with the rest of it (this is only a snippet).

Veld
07-24-2013, 06:06 AM
Sure they can, but that doesn't mean it's good business sense, will reflect well for them with future titles or give anyone positive reasons when they're thinking about whether they want to continue supporting the game or not. Anyone with half a brain in their head gets that stuff happens sometimes. But when it is constantly and repeatedly happening, people just get annoyed because the faith/trust they placed in the game and it's team is broken and whilst sure, it's all within the TOU etc it's still a sh**** way to treat your customer base. Combine it with the fact that the forums are like a no go zone for the community team and it's not hard to get why people have no faith (and are voicing it) in Trion and this latest effort.

Dave Blackwell
07-24-2013, 06:25 AM
Sure they can, but that doesn't mean it's good business sense, will reflect well for them with future titles or give anyone positive reasons when they're thinking about whether they want to continue supporting the game or not. Anyone with half a brain in their head gets that stuff happens sometimes. But when it is constantly and repeatedly happening, people just get annoyed because the faith/trust they placed in the game and it's team is broken and whilst sure, it's all within the TOU etc it's still a sh**** way to treat your customer base. Combine it with the fact that the forums are like a no go zone for the community team and it's not hard to get why people have no faith (and are voicing it) in Trion and this latest effort.

During the first few weeks of the games release there were times when the game was, in the literal sense, unplayable as it was near enough completely unstable. Constant disconnects, game errors, glitches, things not working. Some of these issues that existed are long gone as they had been fixed by the developers. As far as having faith in them, looking back at what this game was during release those from that time should, at the very least, acknowledge the developers for that.

To expect a game such as this to be near perfection within four months of its release is unrealistic thinking. Yes, many of these issues could have been avoided; but there are certain problems that cannot be anticipated or even predicted until the game has gone live as you'll never be able to truly replicate the scenario that public server(s) can achieve due to the many factors that revolve around them. For one, a major factor is this game is multiplatform; meaning that what may be an issue for certain players on one platform won't be the same for for another group that is on another platform.

But lets not forget that all issues have to be addressed, you also have the problems on platform B and C to resolve (Which may or may not be the same as the problems occurring on platform A) on top of the issues that platform A is having, if you can figure out a way to multi task these then you may very well be the gaming industry's messiah. Oh and not to mention that platform A, B and C may or may not have the exact same certification processes as the other platforms, so you have different protocols etc. you go through in order to have fixes, DLC etc. ready for those platforms. Then you have the whole certification process, testing, more hoops and gymnastics to go through before you can even get to the stage of releasing to the public.

****ty or not, the TOU's dictate exactly how things are carried out and that's what it will always boil down to at the end of the day, regardless of any company name or where they reside in any industry or individual opinions.

Veld
07-24-2013, 06:30 AM
TOU's don't dictate how things are carried out. Just the same as they don't write bad code, change schedules, make decisions or say things that simply aren't true. It's not the TOU's that let people down either. Guess who does that? Make all the flimsy, hide behind legalese excuses for them you want but it doesn't change anything.

N3gativeCr33p
07-24-2013, 06:31 AM
To expect a game such as this to be near perfection within four months of its release is unrealistic thinking.

Amen. And if memory serves me correctly, it took DCUO close to a year for it to clear those choppy waters. I've played that game from the start, and their forums back then remind me very much of these forums now.

Veld
07-24-2013, 06:36 AM
Amen. And if memory serves me correctly, it took DCUO close to a year for it to clear those choppy waters. I've played that game from the start, and their forums back then remind me very much of these forums now.

Do they still have that Radarx guy as lead CM? To be fair, Trion's not the first company to make a balls of things and they wont be the last, but they don't seem to have any regard for their community's concerns. At least with DCUO i got the impression they gave a damn about the game/brand, here not so much. To me this is more akin to how Cryptic treat STO which imo is just something to milk and prop up their other projects.

Dave Blackwell
07-24-2013, 06:41 AM
TOU's don't dictate how things are carried out. Just the same as they don't write bad code, change schedules, make decisions or say things that simply aren't true. It's not the TOU's that let people down either. Guess who does that? Make all the flimsy, hide behind legalese excuses for them you want but it doesn't change anything.

Regardless of yours or my stance on this subject, the fact of the matter still stands. The release dates for DLC and anything regarding defiance are all subject to change. We can continue this little dance as long as you want, but no matter what anyone says; nothing will speed up the process of the DLC being released.

N3gativeCr33p
07-24-2013, 06:41 AM
Do they still have that Radarx guy as lead CM?

Nope... I believe the "honor" of that position now belongs to a guy called Mepps.



To be fair, Trion's not the first company to make a balls of things and they wont be the last, but they don't seem to have any regard for their community's concerns. At least with DCUO i got the impression they gave a damn about the game/brand, here not so much.

On the subject of fairness... back in those early days, I used to think the same of SOE... not caring, they didn't listen to the community, etc etc. But that all changed over time, and I'm hoping that the same thing happens here. Looking back at some of those rage posts, I can kind of see why they didn't respond very often. But once that game finally hit its stride... floods of developer comments.

They just need to realize... a little communication goes a LOOOOONG way.

Veld
07-24-2013, 06:43 AM
Mepps...i know that name...maybe from SWG? Been a long time though and i'm old with a fuzzy memory. lol

N3gativeCr33p
07-24-2013, 06:46 AM
Mepps...i know that name...maybe from SWG? Been a long time though and i'm old with a fuzzy memory. lol

I guess it's entirely possible. SOE developed SWG, didn't they?

Veld
07-24-2013, 06:51 AM
Yeah they did. One of the best games i ever played was original, pre CU/NGE SWG. So many memories.