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View Full Version : I really hope Trion, Sony, and Microsoft make this work.



Zeiban
03-29-2013, 02:44 AM
I will be surprised if all the platforms are ever in sync and updated constantly. Trion knows how to do a PC MMO as they have done it before many times. The consoles have so much red tape involved with the 360 being much worse than the PS3. This is why you don't see Dust 514 on the 360 (CCP has said this) and MMOs have never really been done on the 360 for similar reasons.

I know Trion has said they have figured it out what others couldn't but I'm still concerned.

I suspect the platforms will get the most attention in the following order PC > PS3 > 360. Not because of Trion but the platform holders. What's interesting is the 360 seems to have the most interest so Trion & MS need to get this right. IMO It's the bigger initial market. Many PC gamers see this as just another in a long list of MMOs. Console gamers see this as the first real MMO for a console. I'm sure it's the first for many who never game on the PC

Eventually I suspect over a few years the PC version will be the only one with servers still running as it's player base will continue to grow or at least be be stable. Why is this? Console games have a very short shelf life of 1-2 months. Once the game is not on the retail shelves that's it. Used games are just replacing a player. Sure you will be able to buy a PSN and XBL copy digitally but most users after the initial marketing won't know this. The one hope I have is the TV series will act as a marketing tool for the game. I'm sure the show will drive more players to the game than the gamers to the show.

The consoles are not like a PC where games will sell on Steam for years after the initial release because of deep sales. Sony and MS don't do Steam like sales. Although, recently MS has had some pretty deep steam like sales the past few months so maybe they are seeing the light. Then we hear about the region locking and I think MS is taking a step back.

I really hope Trion, Sony and MS get this right and I'm proven wrong in a few years. Defiance is a big importunity to make it finally all work and work well.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

Komakala
03-29-2013, 02:50 AM
I think it will work early on. But I kinda agree with you. I think the console users will be a few weeks or even a month or so behind in patches. PC gamerbase will continue to grow to a certain degree while the console gamers will slowly make the shift to the new consoles. If Trion doesn't step up to the next gen as well the consoles will lag down until it's just a small hardcore group that play regularly. Newness wears off quickly and the majority of gamers seem to have very short attention spans.

Mok
03-29-2013, 04:35 AM
I really hope that everything goes smoothly in the long run. id hate to see some kinda of company Vs. company argument screwing up the game. being that i play on the 360 id also hate to receive patches later than the PC and PS. This game/Series has HUGE potential but being that their going with 3 different platforms i really hope Trion has it in em.

May the force be with them..Always.

Viryu
03-29-2013, 04:45 AM
It's pretty much Sony and Microsoft's fault. They tell developers to wait 2 weeks or so to put the patch up, and each such operation costs around 40k$. This is also why there will never be cross play, unless PC patches were delayed as well. On the other side, it was proven that when DLCs are released, game sales increase, so I'm guessing a mix of free and paid DLCs released over time would help. And if Trion made a deal with the two about patching, to cut them some slack, it would probably be most profitable for everyone. In the end it will be how good the finished game is. It can end like Dark Souls or Borderlands, which still have a high online traffic, or can be totally forgotten, like Guardian's of the Middle Earth.

MacDeath
03-29-2013, 04:49 AM
I have a lot of hope that Trion CAN pull this off. A couple of years ago I posted this on the RIFT forums.
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/general-discussion/16483-trion-next-gen-game-company-rift-fast-becoming-next-gen-game.html

Jardian
03-29-2013, 04:53 AM
Actually going by current MMO's Running the Updates are matched you dont have a off set. And this was built for consoles in mind first not PC so if anything they would be ahead lol.

hhkaal416
03-29-2013, 04:55 AM
Only 1 thing to say: DCUO on PS3, its a huge mmo on that console since his release, I spent a lot of time on that game, I hope Defiance do the same :)

Dan3000au
03-29-2013, 05:17 AM
only reason it would fail would be coz of the xbox limits on there mmo and having to have gold member where all other pc and console do not do that <.<

Wolf
03-29-2013, 05:21 AM
I'm surprised this is even out on Xbox. After all the failed attempts at Xbox MMOs - Conan, APB, Huxley, Marvel mmo, Halo MMO ect. I thought nah quit BS'ing me this can't be legit! :p So imagine my joy to learn otherwise. I do wonder what the plans are for console long term say 5 years. Since the new Xbox and PS4 are "out" this Xmas. Now I know the Xbox 360 is gonna be supported for at least a couple of years after the 720 hits the shops. But if the show and game are a huge success (fingers crossed) and in say 10 years during Defiance's 10 season will we still be playing on aging Xbox 360s and PS3s? lol

And I know what u're thinking? "10 years! Dear god man that's crazy scifi future talk. The games not even out yet!" But PC gamers can play indefinitely for as long as the series lasts. But the same isn't true for console players, sooner or later Microsoft and Sony will discontinue supporting their current consoles in favour of their next gen stuff. Like MS did with Xbox 1 by turning off its XBL so u can't play Halo 2 ect, even on BC. So makes u think if there'll eventually be some sort of transition to the newer generation down the line in say 3 to 5 years?

Saintchris
03-29-2013, 05:26 AM
looking at the number of threads on these forums for the pc, ps3 and xbox 360. X Box has the most by far which says it also should have the most players.

If Defiance becomes a big success on the X Box (fingers crossed) Microsoft will loosen up and let more companys get their mmos on their consule.

Zeiban
03-29-2013, 10:02 AM
It's pretty much Sony and Microsoft's fault. They tell developers to wait 2 weeks or so to put the patch up, and each such operation costs around 40k$. This is also why there will never be cross play, unless PC patches were delayed as well. On the other side, it was proven that when DLCs are released, game sales increase, so I'm guessing a mix of free and paid DLCs released over time would help. And if Trion made a deal with the two about patching, to cut them some slack, it would probably be most profitable for everyone. In the end it will be how good the finished game is. It can end like Dark Souls or Borderlands, which still have a high online traffic, or can be totally forgotten, like Guardian's of the Middle Earth.

DLC is a good point. It will keep players coming back on all platforms

Zeiban
03-29-2013, 10:06 AM
I'm surprised this is even out on Xbox. After all the failed attempts at Xbox MMOs - Conan, APB, Huxley, Marvel mmo, Halo MMO ect. I thought nah quit BS'ing me this can't be legit! :p So imagine my joy to learn otherwise. I do wonder what the plans are for console long term say 5 years. Since the new Xbox and PS4 are "out" this Xmas. Now I know the Xbox 360 is gonna be supported for at least a couple of years after the 720 hits the shops. But if the show and game are a huge success (fingers crossed) and in say 10 years during Defiance's 10 season will we still be playing on aging Xbox 360s and PS3s? lol

And I know what u're thinking? "10 years! Dear god man that's crazy scifi future talk. The games not even out yet!" But PC gamers can play indefinitely for as long as the series lasts. But the same isn't true for console players, sooner or later Microsoft and Sony will discontinue supporting their current consoles in favour of their next gen stuff. Like MS did with Xbox 1 by turning off its XBL so u can't play Halo 2 ect, even on BC. So makes u think if there'll eventually be some sort of transition to the newer generation down the line in say 3 to 5 years?

I agree. I would be really surprised the game isn't ported to the next consoles. Especially this late in the cycle. I'm sure we will hear something in the next year from Trion. They just don't want to loose sales from people who will wait for the PS4 & Next Box versions.

iiReLaX o
03-29-2013, 10:06 AM
See a lot of opinions that appear quite biased. But no comment on them.

On the other hand Trion had already said that they won't have to get their patches certified by Microsoft or Sony, so I'll leave it at that.

Yeah Dust 514 looked pretty bad to me.

exxcess
03-29-2013, 10:06 AM
Good concept but in reality most if not all console shooters have aimbot, not to mention mouse control would trump console to make pvp extremely unfair.

elrick mercer
03-29-2013, 10:06 AM
I don't know about xbox360. But I know Sony is very very MMO friendly with games like MAG, FF11 on the PS2, Dust 514, and DCUO. Dust 514 updates don't even have to go through Sony QA CCP updates the game right through the client whenever they want.

TRAP
03-29-2013, 10:18 AM
looking at the number of threads on these forums for the pc, ps3 and xbox 360. X Box has the most by far which says it also should have the most players.

If Defiance becomes a big success on the X Box (fingers crossed) Microsoft will loosen up and let more companys get their mmos on their consule.

I dont think your statement is a good argument considering you could have 500 threads made between 5 people for example then have 10 other people creating similar threads to the ones the 5 other people have created in the first place.

Rush
03-29-2013, 10:29 AM
looking at the number of threads on these forums for the pc, ps3 and xbox 360. X Box has the most by far which says it also should have the most players.

If Defiance becomes a big success on the X Box (fingers crossed) Microsoft will loosen up and let more companys get their mmos on their consule.


that logic makes no sense. if your going by the amount of posts...lol, just lol. the majority of posts on these forums is nothing but b*t*Hing and complaining..really..it is..and its getting annoying. i hope it works out for all three platforms but xbox nor ps3 will ever have more then pc in my honest opinion.

Arinzal
03-29-2013, 10:35 AM
Square enix is about to start a beta for new ff online for xbox.

mcwjimbo
03-29-2013, 10:42 AM
looking at the number of threads on these forums for the pc, ps3 and xbox 360. X Box has the most by far which says it also should have the most players........

forum posts/ threads is anecdotal evidence at best so how about some real #s from a real study

a quick and sloppy google pulls this up

PC as being the larger revenue driver $11.6 billion vs. $8 billion for consoles

iiReLaX o
03-29-2013, 10:42 AM
Square enix is about to start a beta for new ff online for xbox.

Signup required? Link?

iiReLaX o
03-29-2013, 10:58 AM
forum posts/ threads is anecdotal evidence at best so how about some real #s from a real study

a quick and sloppy google pulls this up

PC as being the larger revenue driver — $11.6 billion vs. $8 billion for consoles

Oh ok. So do you believe everything on the internet or is this a legitimate source?

kajun mulisha
03-29-2013, 11:32 AM
i have to dis agree with the op. atleast from my own experience. first off i will say that it is my guess you are primarily a pc gamer, as your post seems to be more pro pc. i will say that in all the cross platform games i have, for example call of duty and borderlands, xbox receives the patches first for the most part, with ps3 being last. call of duty on xbox even gets dlc a month before the other 2. im not saying that xbox isnt last in some games, but i am saying that it isnt often as i feel you are implying

i will agree that console games have a very short lifespan now compared to in the past. but its because the mainstream games are copied and pasted to be released every year. with a new game title comming out every few months it seems. but on the same note xbox specific games like halo and gears of war that arent mass produced like cod for example, traditionally have a very large and long lasting player base over time. i think if defiance devs keep up with the game focusing on fixing things and adding new content instead of putting it out then going to the bank and counting their money while forgetting us, this game will do very well

mcwjimbo
03-29-2013, 11:38 AM
Oh ok. So do you believe everything on the internet or is this a legitimate source?

a 2011 report so yes, out of date = quick and sloppy google

http://ignitegt.com/2011/09/pc-vs-console/

iiReLaX o
03-29-2013, 11:48 AM
a 2011 report so yes, out of date = quick and sloppy google

http://ignitegt.com/2011/09/pc-vs-console/

2 years ago? If it was from 2012 then it would be relevant.

zartanyen
03-29-2013, 11:55 AM
The consoles have so much red tape involved with the 360 being much worse than the PS3. This is why you don't see Dust 514 on the 360 (CCP has said this) and MMOs have never really been done on the 360 for similar reasons.

That's not why DUST 514 is not on the 360, the 360 has standards and DUST 514 was not going to make their quality standards.

We on XBOX have to pay for our live subscriptions and with that we get better CS then playstation users do XBOX will not tolerate somethings because if they did people would stop paying for their live subscriptions also XBOX is not going to go for a never ending beta also know as DUST 514 and to have a open item shop that you pay for during a beta, would not sit well with XBOX users thats almost as bad as darkfall was charging you to play in a alpha.

I own both consoles and can tell the difference in quality and CS I get between the 2 of them and when it comes to me connecting to play games or watch a movie or use a app on one of the XBOX is always better then my playstation thats because sony throttles your connection speed as soon as you log on to the PSN XBOX does not one night I got a movie on VUDU with a 100 MEG connection I could not watch it in HD on my PS3 do to speed was giving me less then 15MEG's down I jumped on my XBOX and used my VUDU their to watch the movie no problems getting it in HD only thing was PS3 was 1080 but my XBOX was 720 but it did not matter because I could not get the 1080 on my PS3 because of their throttling and their throttling is a % based off of your isp speed so if you don't have the best speed to begin with it's going to be way worse.

Zeiban
03-29-2013, 08:01 PM
i have to dis agree with the op. atleast from my own experience. first off i will say that it is my guess you are primarily a pc gamer, as your post seems to be more pro pc. i will say that in all the cross platform games i have, for example call of duty and borderlands, xbox receives the patches first for the most part, with ps3 being last. call of duty on xbox even gets dlc a month before the other 2. im not saying that xbox isnt last in some games, but i am saying that it isnt often as i feel you are implying

i will agree that console games have a very short lifespan now compared to in the past. but its because the mainstream games are copied and pasted to be released every year. with a new game title comming out every few months it seems. but on the same note xbox specific games like halo and gears of war that arent mass produced like cod for example, traditionally have a very large and long lasting player base over time. i think if defiance devs keep up with the game focusing on fixing things and adding new content instead of putting it out then going to the bank and counting their money while forgetting us, this game will do very well

For this console generation I've been primarily a console gamer. In 2005 it was buy a new video card for my PC or a console and I got a 360. It's only in the past 6 months that I've got back into gaming on the PC in any form. The PS2/XBOX/GC generation I was 50/50% with console vs. PC. PSX/N64 generation I was about 20% console and 80% PC.

My observations and opinion are from many years watching this industry. I agree that some developers have gotten it right when it comes to non-MMOs like Borderland and CoD. All the platforms are synced well and I don't think anyone feels left behind. The DLC is another issue. Usually a platform holder will pay for DLC exclusivity to release it first. Luckily game exclusivity days like GTA for the PS2 are long gone.

I'm glad to see Sony sticking to a PC architecture with PS4 and trying to be different on the software & services side instead of in hardware. Hopfully this will avoid the issue the PS3 had with Skyrim DLC. If the rumors are true MS will be doing the same thing. This will go a long way in allowing developers to create game for multiple platforms. I'm sure the folks at Bungie happy as well this because of Destiny.

Mindfix
03-29-2013, 09:32 PM
See a lot of opinions that appear quite biased. But no comment on them.

On the other hand Trion had already said that they won't have to get their patches certified by Microsoft or Sony, so I'll leave it at that.

Yeah Dust 514 looked pretty bad to me.

Yup was already stated hotfixes/patching is not charged and will not be a cert process, beta had them rolling out pretty fast.

Don't even know if i would call Dust an mmo.