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View Full Version : The Orange vs. Purple BMG Question



JxSiN
08-03-2013, 11:45 AM
So I asked a question about BMGs that was answered on the live stream. I took the answer at face value and was satisfied, but when I got back in the game, and did some research, I clearly discovered the answer I was given was in fact false.

The question was basically, since Orange BMGs only have 2 rolls plus a mastery roll, what differentiates them from a purple BMG which also has 2 rolls plus a mastery? It's not just any of my BMGs either, it has been quite a few that I have seen, on the forums, and in friends' inventories. The answer I received was that for a BMG, the melee nano would also count as a roll. So the orange bmg should have 2 rolls, a mastery roll, and a melee nano and that would set them apart from the purples.

The problem: Once I got back into game last night I started delving around looking up stuff and asking my friends about their bmgs. A good friend of mine has an orange bmg, 2 rolls, a mastery roll, and NO melee nano. Yet it is orange. I asked a few others and either they had a melee nano, or they didn't have a melee nano. So I started doing a search on the trade forums... (copy/pasted just as they are listed on the forums)

Here is a few (just a few) that I found (I can add more if need-be, but I think this is enough to prove my point).
A friends bmg (on PS3):
stingray
veteren
mods link range 1.15dam/x.85 heal x.85 relaod
+40% nade on reload
+1 max links
15% nade on kill

*No melee nano, the grenade refresh is the mastery roll

A guy talking about his newest orange pull from a lockbox on the xbox 360 forums:
Stingray 4173 run n gun scope is locked (sorry guys)
-.06dmg charge, 25stowed weapon and radiation melee

*It's brand new, so no mastery but it does have the 2 rolls and a melee nano

Here's one for sale that's not a stingray on the 360 servers:
VOT Spanner Protector 1525 -- 150k
fully modded link Range/DMG/Reload
Outlaw SYN
FULL EXP: x1.25 Link Range
+1 MAx links
15% self revive
melee: poop shoes

*This one has the mastery, the melee, and the 2 rolls also... which by the dev's standards make it an orange (unlike the 1st one I posted which is an orange but no melee nano... but I'm getting to my point soon)

Here, a guy on the ps3 trade forums asked to buy/trade for an orange bmg, here are a couple he was offered:
Hey man I have 1....
STINGRAY
synergy: stalker
XP: 1.25 link range
1.05 charge
15% self revive

and

3374 ego
Survivalist
2/4
-.2 link time
15% grenade recharge on kill
Not rolled

*Both with the 2 rolls, a mastery (even though one wasn't rolled yet), and NO melee nano on either

And so the PC crowd wouldn't feel left out, here is a response on a post for a guy on the PC server looking for orange BMGs:
I have an orange stingray with 1.05 dmg/charge, 1.05 charge, and 15% grenade refresh on kill. Ego 1,105. Or an orange spanner trapper with stalker, +1 max links, and 25% stowed weapon reload on kill.
*The 1.05dmg/charge on the 1st one IS a mastery roll. The 2nd apparently hasn't been rolled. But both are 2 rolls, a mastery roll, AND NO MELEE NANO

All of the above are orange.
Here is my Stingray
Mastery: X1.04dmg/charge
+1 Link
15% Grenade Refresh on Kill
Syphon Melee

And mine is PURPLE
How are any of those Oranges any different than a purple? They all have the same amount of rolls, some don't even have the melee nano. So the answer that the melee nano COUNTS for a roll on the BMG is clearly, clearly WRONG. And that answer came from a dev.

alienstookmybeer
08-03-2013, 12:12 PM
That was definitely some horse manure. Whoever researched it is clearly incompetent and that the dev bought that as a legit answer and read it just made me shake my head and groan.

maverick07
08-03-2013, 04:55 PM
So I guess the only difference is the orange getting a slightly better mastery. I have a number of purple and orange BMGs and I can confirm the same stuff.

It seems to me that the melee nano roll is just simply random that can show up on any weapon blue (maybe green?) or higher. And it's not guranteed to always be on there.

The problem is they don't have a possible orange tier roll in the game for orange BMGs. They need to make one for them, something simple like 1.10 DMG/sec or 1.10 Heal/sec, could work.

M0G
08-03-2013, 05:04 PM
ONLY difference is mastery roll

ex: 40% grenade recharge vs 20%

M0G
08-03-2013, 05:04 PM
i own like 5 of each...my purple is better lol

JxSiN
08-03-2013, 06:06 PM
ONLY difference is mastery roll

ex: 40% grenade recharge vs 20%

That is true with any orange vs. purple vs. any other color. The more rare the item, the better the mastery roll (example: damage mastery rolls 1.01 white, 1.02 green, 1.03 blue, 1.04 purple, 1.05 orange). But other weapons also get extra normal rolls as they move up in rarity. A purple shotgun will have the mastery and 2 other rolls. An orange will have the mastery and 3 other rolls. This is regardless if there is a nano or a melee nano. So melee nanos don't count as rolls on those weapons, or any weapon (except the BMG if you take the answer that was given on the livestream).

The only other advantage besides the extra roll and the better mastery roll is something that is unconfirmed, but everyone I have talked to about it agrees.... the higher the rarity, the higher the nano proc chance. Whether confirmed or not, this still has no effect what-so-ever on a BMG since it doesn't get anything other than a melee nano.

I don't blame Trick for giving the answer on livestream, as it was the answer given to him by another dev. I did take it at face value cuz Trick is the one person I completely listen to when it comes to Defiance. However, the answer he was given is complete crap and anyone who uses BMGs can quickly point that out. To be honest, I am not a BMG user (the only one I have is the purple one I listed in my original post) and the question I asked is not even mine. It was a question that was presented to me because a lot of people come to me for information because they know the amount of research and information gathering I do. After I got the answer off of livestream, I looked at my stingray, wondered why it should technically be an orange based on the standards that was given in that answer, and presented that answer, with a bit of hesitation, to the guy who asked me originally. To which he quickly called BS, then started asking me about why his BMG is orange and only has the two standard rolls but no melee nano?

So, devs, EP, Sledge, CMs, any Trionisto, can we get a real answer about this?

Sanguinesun
08-03-2013, 06:44 PM
So, devs, EP, Sledge, CMs, any Trionisto, can we get a real answer about this?


Around the time the orange drops from mobs real answer comes about I imagine :P

JxSiN
08-03-2013, 06:59 PM
Around the time the orange drops from mobs real answer comes about I imagine :P

I'm expecting them to sneak them in on a patch or hotfix and as soon as someone finds one, Trion can point and say "Told ya so!"

dominad
08-03-2013, 07:05 PM
Lol that sounds about right :P Speaking of Im 99% sure my orange bmg has no nano effect or even a 3rd roll. Oh hang on I have 2 I would go look for you but I think the disk is colecting dust and waiting for all the patches Ive missed would take forever

JxSiN
08-03-2013, 07:18 PM
Lol that sounds about right :P Speaking of Im 99% sure my orange bmg has no nano effect or even a 3rd roll. Oh hang on I have 2 I would go look for you but I think the disk is colecting dust and waiting for all the patches Ive missed would take forever

It's been confirmed by every person I have talked to with an orange BMG. 2 rolls, weapon mastery on each one whether there is a melee nano or not. So, by this standard, by purple stingray is better than most orange bmgs. So that makes orange BMGs extremely overpriced since they technically are just recolored purples right?

Hiero Glyph
08-03-2013, 07:29 PM
It's been confirmed by every person I have talked to with an orange BMG. 2 rolls, weapon mastery on each one whether there is a melee nano or not. So, by this standard, by purple stingray is better than most orange bmgs. So that makes orange BMGs extremely overpriced since they technically are just recolored purples right?

The only thing rarity effects is the potential maximum stat for the mastery roll. So, for example, a purple maxes at +30% speed bonus for 5 seconds after a full reload, while an orange maxes at +45%. It should also be noted that melee nano effects are random and not guaranteed, as is a mastery roll (it is possible to not get one even when maxed).

JxSiN
08-03-2013, 07:49 PM
The only thing rarity effects is the potential maximum stat for the mastery roll. So, for example, a purple maxes at +30% speed bonus for 5 seconds after a full reload, while an orange maxes at +45%. It should also be noted that melee nano effects are random and not guaranteed, as is a mastery roll (it is possible to not get one even when maxed).

That's why I put not confirmed about the proc rate, it is just popular speculation that is shared by a lot of people. But rarity, for every weapon BUT a bmg, also determines the number of bonus rolls a weapon has (except for faction vendor ones, which I have seen purples in those vendors with 4 bonus rolls). For purples, it is 2 and oranges it is 3. The exception to this rule is ARs, SMGs (not including the VOT Pulser), and the disruptor... which have an extra bonus roll.

So to me, saying that the melee nano counts as a bonus roll for BMGs is a cop-out answer. It is clearly wrong as there are NO oranges, regardless of melee nano, that has a mastery bonus and 3 other rolls. Purples have the same amount of rolls as the orange versions. So either the dev that gave Trick that answer is clueless and the community knows more about the game than the devs (which is really sad), or he is just being lazy and doesn't want to fix the problem.

So why are we getting BS answers from CMs and Devs when we clearly know that they are BS answers?

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and I really hope the best for its future. As far as listening to Trion, I have stated that the only person I take at face value is Trick Dempsey, as he is the only one who has been as open as he could about a lot of things. Yes, he was the one that answered the question, but it was an answer that he was GIVEN by someone who is suppose to be knowledgeable about the items. I will give Sledge props on getting my name right, and even give him the benefit of the doubt because he is the only vocal community manager we have and I believe that a lot of the answers (the wrong ones) that he gives to us are actually given to him by the higher ups. I also give the new EP the benefit of the doubt, as I believe he has been more straightforward and has better communication skills with the players than the last EP did. But, once again, this goes to show me that the community knows more about the game than the people who created it.

EDIT: Also, concerning the blank mastery roll that was brought up. They actually confirmed that it wasn't a missing roll, just a weird glitch where the text was too long so therefor none of the text even shows up in that roll. So the bonus is there, we just don't know what it is. And, of course they didn't tell us what it is either, lol

Noodlejr
08-03-2013, 08:42 PM
I have 2 Purple Bmgs the exact same stats (with the exeption of mastery from exp and melee) and Bmg#1 says no melee nano but it lit enemys on fire as if it had a fire melee.
Bmg#2 had a listed syphon ability that also worked properly which leads to me to the thought that the melee nano on them is glitched.
Maybe the orange Bmgs with no nano melee actaully have one but it's not listed,just something I thought would be interesting to throw out there.

JxSiN
08-04-2013, 10:58 AM
I have 2 Purple Bmgs the exact same stats (with the exeption of mastery from exp and melee) and Bmg#1 says no melee nano but it lit enemys on fire as if it had a fire melee.
Bmg#2 had a listed syphon ability that also worked properly which leads to me to the thought that the melee nano on them is glitched.
Maybe the orange Bmgs with no nano melee actaully have one but it's not listed,just something I thought would be interesting to throw out there.

I had a friend test out this on one of his orange BMGs with no melee nano (reiterating: it only has a weapon mastery, 2 rolls, and no nano) and no melee nano ever proc'd. I'm sticking to the fact that Trion gave us a "cop-out" answer because they either didn't want to really check into the matter or didn't want to do the work to fix it. I still don't blame any of the people that were on the livestream that gave the answer because it was given to them. I blame the guy who gave them that BS answer to put out.

Which makes me think. Maybe all the times Sledge gave us wrong info, it wasn't his intention to do so. Maybe some lazy dev didn't want to do follow-up research, check into the live game (and not their server), or whatever reason and gave him that BS answer to pass along to the public. This could be the reason Sledge said we had all synergy mods in game BEFORE we actually had them, and why he keeps stressing that oranges can drop from regular mobs when there has been so much community work has been put in to show that it's wrong. It just goes back to the community knowing more about the game than the people who created it.

maverick07
08-04-2013, 03:59 PM
That's why I put not confirmed about the proc rate, it is just popular speculation that is shared by a lot of people. But rarity, for every weapon BUT a bmg, also determines the number of bonus rolls a weapon has (except for faction vendor ones, which I have seen purples in those vendors with 4 bonus rolls). For purples, it is 2 and oranges it is 3. The exception to this rule is ARs, SMGs (not including the VOT Pulser), and the disruptor... which have an extra bonus roll.

So to me, saying that the melee nano counts as a bonus roll for BMGs is a cop-out answer. It is clearly wrong as there are NO oranges, regardless of melee nano, that has a mastery bonus and 3 other rolls. Purples have the same amount of rolls as the orange versions. So either the dev that gave Trick that answer is clueless and the community knows more about the game than the devs (which is really sad), or he is just being lazy and doesn't want to fix the problem.

So why are we getting BS answers from CMs and Devs when we clearly know that they are BS answers?

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and I really hope the best for its future. As far as listening to Trion, I have stated that the only person I take at face value is Trick Dempsey, as he is the only one who has been as open as he could about a lot of things. Yes, he was the one that answered the question, but it was an answer that he was GIVEN by someone who is suppose to be knowledgeable about the items. I will give Sledge props on getting my name right, and even give him the benefit of the doubt because he is the only vocal community manager we have and I believe that a lot of the answers (the wrong ones) that he gives to us are actually given to him by the higher ups. I also give the new EP the benefit of the doubt, as I believe he has been more straightforward and has better communication skills with the players than the last EP did. But, once again, this goes to show me that the community knows more about the game than the people who created it.

EDIT: Also, concerning the blank mastery roll that was brought up. They actually confirmed that it wasn't a missing roll, just a weird glitch where the text was too long so therefor none of the text even shows up in that roll. So the bonus is there, we just don't know what it is. And, of course they didn't tell us what it is either, lol

I wasn't able to watch the stream as it didn't run real well on my computer lol. Nice of Sledge to give you props for your guide and he got your name right too?

Maybe I'll ask it next stream but I wonder if every weapon was supposed to have a bonus roll once you reach the EGO 1600 to 1800 range? I always thought it was weird that only certain ones get the extra roll. The ARs/SMGs/Disruptor get some progression and get better when you reach that point in EGO. But every other gun in the game is going backwards with having no mod slots again.

Hiero Glyph
08-04-2013, 08:24 PM
To be fair, this is not the first nor the last time that Trion will provide this community with erroneous information.

JxSiN
08-04-2013, 08:44 PM
To be fair, this is not the first nor the last time that Trion will provide this community with erroneous information.

Then they get called out about it, and we get no reply :)

This is an awesome game, and they really should start listening more to the community about things... especially when they give misinformation and we are trying to tell them that they really need to check into it cuz the vast majority of the players know that these given answers are incorrect. Come on, we are just "trion" to help fix the game.

JxSiN
08-05-2013, 04:39 PM
Question cuz I'm not in game... Doesn't the Heavy Coiler (the faction vendor BMG) have 3 rolls at higher ego and it is purple? Wouldn't that make it better than the orange bmgs we have in game (since they are just fancy colored purples)?

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 04:51 PM
Add this "Fact" from the Dev's to the Shtako pile and move along. LOL

Getting tired of these kinds of answers from people who should know better.

"Oh yeah Oranges drop in Open world, I got a sweet shottie"

Ummmmmmmhummmmmmmmmmmm

JxSiN
08-05-2013, 04:56 PM
Add this "Fact" from the Dev's to the Shtako pile and move along. LOL

Getting tired of these kinds of answers from people who should know better.

"Oh yeah Oranges drop in Open world, I got a sweet shottie"

Ummmmmmmhummmmmmmmmmmm

But they do, you just have to use your 4 stat orange BMG to make them drop!

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 04:58 PM
But they do, you just have to use your 4 stat orange BMG to make them drop!

HAHAHAHAHAHA +100 interwebs, that made my night

Arisax
08-05-2013, 05:44 PM
i have a question that its somehow related to the mastery and rolls on weapons ,i recently reached ego rank 2500 + ,since then awhole new of effects and mastery effects came with on weapons i matered,such as speed bonuses,bug dmg bonuses,nade rechage by 20 per full reload and such,that i have never seen before on any weapon i ever had before i was ego rank 2500..can anyone confirm this? because i used to reset exp on low lvl weapons too..so i dont really know if those even existed on lower level weapons or they unlock untill ego rank 2500 just as capacity on shields goes up the higer level you get

cusman
08-05-2013, 05:48 PM
The livestream Q-and-A was just proof even the developers don't know what they do or don't have in the game.

JxSiN
08-05-2013, 06:30 PM
i have a question that its somehow related to the mastery and rolls on weapons ,i recently reached ego rank 2500 + ,since then awhole new of effects and mastery effects came with on weapons i matered,such as speed bonuses,bug dmg bonuses,nade rechage by 20 per full reload and such,that i have never seen before on any weapon i ever had before i was ego rank 2500..can anyone confirm this? because i used to reset exp on low lvl weapons too..so i dont really know if those even existed on lower level weapons or they unlock untill ego rank 2500 just as capacity on shields goes up the higer level you get

To be honest, I didn't start seeing these rolls on weapons until later in the game. I cannot confirm that if it was because they were unlocked at certain EGO or if Trion put them in later on (they tend to do some things and not tell people). I do know they weren't there a few months ago.

JxSiN
08-05-2013, 06:48 PM
The livestream Q-and-A was just proof even the developers don't know what they do or don't have in the game.

That is one thing I got out of the livestream. Either that, or some of the developers are either clueless or flat out give wrong info so they don't have to go in and fix the problem. I don't blame Trick for giving the answer whatsoever. He was given the answer to relate back to us. I don't even blame him for not researching it to make sure it was the correct answer, as he probably has a ton on his plate, plus he has also been very public (such as the livestream, on AtB, the KTAM interview, etc) and has given TONS of great info. I do blame the guy who gave him that answer, cause clearly it was a lie.

The thing is, I don't really even use BMGs. This question was presented to me because I do tons of research on the game, experiment with tons of different things, and write guides for the community. I couldn't answer this question, so I brought it up on the Q&A (and out of my 3 questions asked, I actually figured this had the least chance of getting picked for the livestream). So when I was given this answer I was actually watching the livestream and even BELIEVED it. I presented it to the guy who asked me about it, to which he promptly replied "horse****" and proved me wrong by showing me his orange BMG with no melee nano and his purple with the same number of rolls AND a melee nano. So I looked in my inventory, saw that I had a purple stingray with syphon and the same number of rolls as an orange. Oh, I started using stingrays after that, freaking awesome.

I am taking this question kind of personal, even though it wasn't a major concern of mine at the beginning. Reason is, I presented the answer I was given and was shown it was false. I try real hard to be a trusted and reliable source when it comes to the game as I have done tons of experiments on my own, researched a wide range of topics, etc. So for me to give an answer I believed was 100% accurate because I heard it from a dev puts a blemish on that rep because I didn't test it for myself for taking the answer at face value.

One other thing I got out of that stream: I'm giving Sledgehammer his credibility back. I think he was just like me now, just giving answers that he was given, no matter how inaccurate they may be

JxSiN
08-05-2013, 07:34 PM
To be fair, I gave the livestream another listen. The question pops in about 2 hours 22 minutes into the stream. The answer given came from the lead weapons designer and he stated that presently every BMG that he has found (that was orange) that didn't have the 3 base rolls did, just that the melee attack (effect?) and nano effect counted as rolls and just weren't listed. So BMGs with only 2 rolls listed should have a melee effect or nano effect on it. Then Trick said if they don't then it is a bug that they want to find because it could be an annoying bug they need to track down.

So we (the community) have proven that it's not true as far as nanos are concerned (since some don't have nanos and purple ones with the same amount of rolls can have melee nano effects). So I have another 2 part question about this:

When referring to melee effects, is that referring to melee nanos? Or is there a completely different melee effect that we are not aware about?

And, if it is referring to melee nano effects, then that must mean when he referred to Nano effects, he was referring to non-melee nano effects. If that is the case, does that mean BMGs can have regular nanos? I have never seen a BMG with a regular nano ever

PS: Still never seen a BMG with 3 standard rolls, nano or not

PPS: Please submit a bug report about this issue so they can further investigate

Arisax
08-05-2013, 08:10 PM
To be honest, I didn't start seeing these rolls on weapons until later in the game. I cannot confirm that if it was because they were unlocked at certain EGO or if Trion put them in later on (they tend to do some things and not tell people). I do know they weren't there a few months ago.

lol yup,i also noticed that ,they use to patch stuff without saying a word on patch notes,had noticed few hidden and minor changes ingame as well...so,you are probably right but i dont feel like to start a new char to find out if they are there with a low level character too

JxSiN
08-05-2013, 08:13 PM
lol yup,i also noticed that ,they use to patch stuff without saying a word on patch notes,had noticed few hidden and minor changes ingame as well...so,you are probably right but i dont feel like to start a new char to find out if they are there with a low level character too

I just started a new character over on the EU server to play with some friends over there. I will test out that theory about the ego levels once I start playing more over there.

cusman
08-05-2013, 10:10 PM
That is one thing I got out of the livestream. Either that, or some of the developers are either clueless or flat out give wrong info so they don't have to go in and fix the problem. I don't blame Trick for giving the answer whatsoever. He was given the answer to relate back to us. I don't even blame him for not researching it to make sure it was the correct answer, as he probably has a ton on his plate, plus he has also been very public (such as the livestream, on AtB, the KTAM interview, etc) and has given TONS of great info. I do blame the guy who gave him that answer, cause clearly it was a lie.

The thing is, I don't really even use BMGs. This question was presented to me because I do tons of research on the game, experiment with tons of different things, and write guides for the community. I couldn't answer this question, so I brought it up on the Q&A (and out of my 3 questions asked, I actually figured this had the least chance of getting picked for the livestream). So when I was given this answer I was actually watching the livestream and even BELIEVED it. I presented it to the guy who asked me about it, to which he promptly replied "horse****" and proved me wrong by showing me his orange BMG with no melee nano and his purple with the same number of rolls AND a melee nano. So I looked in my inventory, saw that I had a purple stingray with syphon and the same number of rolls as an orange. Oh, I started using stingrays after that, freaking awesome.

I am taking this question kind of personal, even though it wasn't a major concern of mine at the beginning. Reason is, I presented the answer I was given and was shown it was false. I try real hard to be a trusted and reliable source when it comes to the game as I have done tons of experiments on my own, researched a wide range of topics, etc. So for me to give an answer I believed was 100% accurate because I heard it from a dev puts a blemish on that rep because I didn't test it for myself for taking the answer at face value.

One other thing I got out of that stream: I'm giving Sledgehammer his credibility back. I think he was just like me now, just giving answers that he was given, no matter how inaccurate they may be

I checked my Orange EGO 2900 VOT Spanner and it has 2 starting bonus, no melee nano. Just like the community has been saying. I have seen many purples with 2 starting bonus and melee nano.

The other Orange weapons I all have 3 starting bonus, and yes/no on melee nano or weapon nano irrespective of the 3 weapon bonuses. The others I mention are Infector (Invader?), Ground Pounder, Rebounder Cannon, and Clustershot. Not a good sample on the Nano claim since aside from Clustershot, none of these ever have regular nano due to the type of weapon they are. But they do/don't have melee nano without effecting having 3 bonuses.

The only weapons I have seen with 4 starting bonuses are some of the Purples for sale in the faction Vendor stores (like Echelon, etc).

JxSiN
08-06-2013, 11:17 AM
I checked my Orange EGO 2900 VOT Spanner and it has 2 starting bonus, no melee nano. Just like the community has been saying. I have seen many purples with 2 starting bonus and melee nano.

The other Orange weapons I all have 3 starting bonus, and yes/no on melee nano or weapon nano irrespective of the 3 weapon bonuses. The others I mention are Infector (Invader?), Ground Pounder, Rebounder Cannon, and Clustershot. Not a good sample on the Nano claim since aside from Clustershot, none of these ever have regular nano due to the type of weapon they are. But they do/don't have melee nano without effecting having 3 bonuses.

The only weapons I have seen with 4 starting bonuses are some of the Purples for sale in the faction Vendor stores (like Echelon, etc).

You are right. So if the berserker shotgun and the disruptor share the title as worst weapon in the game, could BMGs be labeled as worst oranges in the game?

TravelerX1
08-06-2013, 11:51 AM
Wait, what is wrong with the Zerker? LOL
If nothing else you can holler out "Olaf Make Metal Face"
and then sing the song over mic

JxSiN
08-06-2013, 12:10 PM
Wait, what is wrong with the Zerker? LOL
If nothing else you can holler out "Olaf Make Metal Face"
and then sing the song over mic

Lol, so what's the saving grace for the disruptor? Ha, there is none! It sucks worse that a 2 stat orange BMG with no nano and a mastery of 3% ammo on revive other as its mastery

TravelerX1
08-06-2013, 12:12 PM
Lol, so what's the saving grace for the disruptor? Ha, there is none! It sucks worse that a 2 stat orange BMG with no nano and a mastery of 3% ammo on revive other as its mastery

Oh there is nothing saving that gun unless a head comes out of an orifice in a certain office and it get's the buff n polish job it so richly deserves......