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View Full Version : Loot and loot boost - Discussion



DarknessEyes PT
08-05-2013, 10:48 AM
Loot boost:
I have been farming Kinship plaza over and over and over.

Without the +25% loot i get an average of 5 items per run.
With the +25% loot i get an average of 30 items per run.
So the +25% loot gives +500% more drops...

Loot:
Loot should be improved...
Most of items that drop are white, few are green ones, blues rarely drops and purples only seen two in 3000 ego levels... Oranges the official drops rate is 0.05% to 5%... but I'm 100% sure thats wrong...
ATM the best way to farm items is by visiting vendors every 60 mins.

Why we dont have some decent drops from regular enemies instead of visiting vendors or from doing arkfalls over and over and over to buy lockboxes,
I'm not asking alots of oranges or alots of items on ground, i only want better quality items, more blues, sometimes a purple and very very rarely an orange.

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 11:09 AM
This is just a personal opinion mind you, but it is something that I have given a fair amount of thought to.

A Proposed Loot Drop System:

Skitterlings:
-Should Never drop weapon loot.

Trash Mobs - (Raiders, Mutants, Infected, Weak Scrappers the like)
Highest Possible Drop: Green
% Of No Drop: 80%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 15%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 5%

Trash Mini-Bosses (Tankers, Scrapper Hellies, Black Lungs, etc etc)
Highest Possible Drop: Blue
% Of No Drop: 0%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 50%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 35%
% Of Blue Drop on Kill: 15%

Power Mobs - (Dark Matter, Elite Units)
Highest Possible Drop: Blue
% Of No Drop: 60%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 30%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 8%
% Of Blue Drop on Kill: 2%

Power Mini-Bosses - Hulkers, Monarchs, Volge(Any), Forges, Bulwarks etc
Highest Possible Drop: Purple
% Of No Drop: 0%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 0%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 60%
% Of Blue Drop on Kill: 35%
% Of Purple Drop on Kill: 5%

Edit, bumped Volge to Power Mini-Boss, and Added Elite units to Power mobs)

Keep in mind that Open world Monarchs and Tankers drop pretty much squat compared to their co-op versions.

I have no problem with Orange not dropping open world.
Seiges and Major Arc falls ..... should always have a chance at orange loot.

Now Lock boxes.......

Tier 3 and 4 should not contain green weapons AT ALL.
and Tier 4's should have the purple and orange rates changed for the better.

DarknessEyes PT
08-05-2013, 11:15 AM
I like to kill trash mobs in mass :)
Got 2 purples from them in 3k ego levels.
And oranges drop in world... but its very veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy rare.

crasher
08-05-2013, 11:15 AM
Loot boost:
I have been farming Kinship plaza over and over and over.

Without the +25% loot i get an average of 5 items per run.
With the +25% loot i get an average of 30 items per run.
So the +25% loot gives +500% more drops...

Loot:
Loot should be improved...
Most of items that drop are white, few are green ones, blues rarely drops and purples only seen two in 3000 ego levels... Oranges the official drops rate is 0.05% to 5%... but I'm 100% sure thats wrong...
ATM the best way to farm items is by visiting vendors every 60 mins.

Why we dont have some decent drops from regular enemies instead of visiting vendors or from doing arkfalls over and over and over to buy lockboxes,
I'm not asking alots of oranges or alots of items on ground, i only want better quality items, more blues, sometimes a purple and very very rarely an orange.
Noticed the wild/crazy difference between 'Normal' and 'Boost' amounts, especially after last weekend.

They should take the guy who was responsible for deciding what '25% increase' means and put him in charge of the '0.05% to 5.0% Orange drop rate' for 60 non-contiguous, random minutes per week.....

DarknessEyes PT
08-05-2013, 11:22 AM
Noticed the wild/crazy difference between 'Normal' and 'Boost' amounts, especially after last weekend.

They should take the guy who was responsible for deciding what '25% increase' means and put him in charge of the '0.05% to 5.0% Orange drop rate' for 60 non-contiguous, random minutes per week.....

If 25% means 600% then the chance to drop an orange should be 1,2% to 200%.

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 11:23 AM
I like to kill trash mobs in mass :)
Got 2 purples from them in 3k ego levels.
And oranges drop in world... but its very veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy rare.

Pushing 4000 Ego and I have never seen a purple let alone an orange drop open world (Or co-op for that matter) Not saying that it isn't possible, but I think it's so damn rare that I just havn't been lucky enough to see one.

DarknessEyes PT
08-05-2013, 11:24 AM
Pushing 4000 Ego and I have never seen a purple let alone an orange drop open world (Or co-op for that matter) Not saying that it isn't possible, but I think it's so damn rare that I just havn't been lucky enough to see one.

Never seen an orange too but im sure they drop.
If purples are very rare then the oranges should be super rare.

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 11:30 AM
Never seen an orange too but im sure they drop.
If purples are very rare then the oranges should be super rare.

Still waiting to see photo/screen shot confirmation on the purple drop, LOL
Orange..... not holding my breath.

DarknessEyes PT
08-05-2013, 11:37 AM
Still waiting to see photo/screen shot confirmation on the purple drop, LOL
Orange..... not holding my breath.

I dont have screenshot because when i got them (around ego 800) i didn't knew their so rare.
But im gonna take a screenshot in next one =P

alienstookmybeer
08-05-2013, 11:45 AM
I suspect the odds of getting orange and grape drops were cut so that they're nonexistent nowadays (if they were ever possible). Probably happened around the time they changed the lockbox odds.

I kinda agree with the first two posts. I wouldn't mind seeing the very rare orange drop since they cut the lockbox odds to crap. If they restored the lockbox chances then I'd be ok with no orange drops.

BJWyler
08-05-2013, 11:47 AM
Loot boost:
I have been farming Kinship plaza over and over and over.

Without the +25% loot i get an average of 5 items per run.
With the +25% loot i get an average of 30 items per run.
So the +25% loot gives +500% more drops...

Loot:
Loot should be improved...
Most of items that drop are white, few are green ones, blues rarely drops and purples only seen two in 3000 ego levels... Oranges the official drops rate is 0.05% to 5%... but I'm 100% sure thats wrong...
ATM the best way to farm items is by visiting vendors every 60 mins.

Why we dont have some decent drops from regular enemies instead of visiting vendors or from doing arkfalls over and over and over to buy lockboxes,
I'm not asking alots of oranges or alots of items on ground, i only want better quality items, more blues, sometimes a purple and very very rarely an orange.

Yeah - doing Coops is a nightmare because I have to stop at least three times to salvage all the trash just to make more room to pick up the trash that drops. Loot boosts are underwhelming, I would much rather see the chance of higher value loot drop (which includes the lockboxes) than just see an increase in garbage over all.

The odds of oranges are very frustrating, especially when you consider the fact that the odds of getting one that is actually useful are even lower. I have never seen an Orange drop as loot in the game. I have never been in a party where someone went "WOOT! Orange drop!" in the game. I have gotten only four orange drops from lockboxes - only two of which came from t4's (the others came from t3's which I now buy because they just make more sense cost-wise).

To have rarity in a game is one thing, but it's only understandable when that rarity is actually useful throughout the span of the game. The fact that we have players who end up trashing Oranges because they are useless stats wise, speaks volumes of the need to revamp the loot and weapon system in some way.

August Barkley
08-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Bosses and some named mobs definitely must drops good weapons and other items. Unfortunately, this is almost never happens. On the other hand, i do not really care about the loot. I still have not got rid of white start item "Machinist`s machine gun". :) Because the gameplay is almost independent of the color of weapons.

crasher
08-05-2013, 12:05 PM
Noticed the wild/crazy difference between 'Normal' and 'Boost' amounts, especially after last weekend.

They should take the guy who was responsible for deciding what '25% increase' means and put him in charge of the '0.05% to 5.0% Orange drop rate' for 60 non-contiguous, random minutes per week.....

If 25% means 600% then the chance to drop an orange should be 1,2% to 200%.
My original post was kind of tongue-in-cheek.


Thanks for playing along... :)

DarknessEyes PT
08-05-2013, 01:30 PM
My original post was kind of tongue-in-cheek.


Thanks for playing along... :)

My friend says that if mob have 1% loot chance and u add +25% loot chance that you get 26% chance to get loot... makes sense... But that also means that you have 25.05% to 30% chance to get oranges...

Something is very wrong with the loot.

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 02:17 PM
Loot boosts (From what I have seen) only effect the chance that an item is going to get dropped. The rarity still falls under the normal percentages (Whatever those are)

You see more green.... because you are getting a larger sample of drops.

If the percentage of "Drop Chance" globally was 5% (Which is my guess), Adding 25% to it would mean any single random thing (Except skitterlings) would have a 30% chance to drop an item. If you run with self and group boosts as well, you can get that close to 45-55% (Group Stacks) Add in perks like Pinata and Just Rewards.... 61%

NOW.... this means that any single thing you kill is very likely to drop a single item of loot. (More yes then no)

Now once that item is set to drop, another percentage kicks in... what rarity is it going to be.... which can be conditional on enemy type, co-op, etc.... This is NOT being boosted at all. So you will mainly see whites and greens, some blues from higher toughness enemies, and very very very rarely a purple (Speculation) and Power Ball Lottery winning chances of an Orange (Doubtful speculation)

So roughly.... you get more chances of loot with a boost, but "quality" of the loot is the same old shtako

Valethar
08-05-2013, 03:45 PM
Power Mini-Bosses - Hulkers, Monarchs, Vicera, Forges, Bulwarks etc
Highest Possible Drop: Purple
% Of No Drop: 0%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 0%


This is not entirely accurate. I've had numerous occasions where these dropped nothing more than the scrip/salvage/ammo, and/or a white gear drop.

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 03:49 PM
This is not entirely accurate. I've had numerous occasions where these dropped nothing more than the scrip/salvage/ammo, and/or a white gear drop.

That was part of a suggested change to the system, not the actual system. Totally agree with you, as it stands now... you are lucky to get anything out of a mini-boss level enemy

Valethar
08-05-2013, 03:49 PM
Loot boosts (From what I have seen) only effect the chance that an item is going to get dropped. The rarity still falls under the normal percentages (Whatever those are)

I've reported this to Trion numerous times since Alpha, and they've done nothing to correct it. Even the Bit store information specifically states that the loot boost increases the rarity of your loot, but it actually increases the frequency instead, which generally means white trash drops rather than an increase in green, blue, purple, etc..


http://home.comcast.net/~valethar/images/defiance/lootboost001.jpg

Valethar
08-05-2013, 03:51 PM
That was part of a suggested change to the system, not the actual system. Totally agree with you, as it stands now... you are lucky to get anything out of a mini-boss level enemy

Derp. You're right. Totally misread that. /shameface

ten4
08-05-2013, 04:34 PM
I have pointed this out ever since launch: loot boosts effect drop rates of everything by a LARGE amount and goes well beyond 10%.

Just test yourself with no loot boost and use a perk that increases drops by 1% and you will see the difference quickly.

I can do a mission with 10% CS booster or the loot weekend events and walk away with 20+ items yet with none at all I will get maybe one at most + I will run out of ammo depending the weapon since loot boosters effect ammo drops (ok!).

But I guess they gotta force CS sales some how and this is one of them.

QUIK420
08-05-2013, 05:07 PM
Almost 4k EGO and still haven't seen a purple or orange either (I do everythingggg and am at 96ish / 104 pursuits). Whats more telltale is that I have never seen a screenshot of either. People have attested to looting both types but without proof its always hard.

MaxSterling
08-05-2013, 06:53 PM
The drop rate during the 25% loot boost weekend should be the norm.

TravelerX1
08-05-2013, 06:54 PM
The drop rate during the 25% loot boost weekend should be the norm.

Amen to that

Zoranth
08-05-2013, 07:10 PM
I think you will find that there is already a post that goes quite in depth into testing the loot drops and the so called "0.05%-5.0% chance to loot an Orange from a Common NPC" which was stated by a Community Manager on here being proven to be quite false in the following thread:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?115023-The-Drop-Rates-and-Loot-system-is-Broken

Please go there and read the information and the data provided and form your own conclusions from there. Multiple posts on the same subject that does not actually pool all of the information together actually draws attention away from the data.

Remember, Pics of it on the ground showing the Comparison tag or it did not happen. You can say it did until you are blue in the face but the proof is in the pic.

DarknessEyes PT
08-06-2013, 03:57 AM
Skitterlings:
-Should Never drop weapon loot.


Fair enough



Trash Mobs - (Raiders, Mutants, Infected, Scrappers the like)
Highest Possible Drop: Green
% Of No Drop: 80%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 15%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 5%


Fair enough



Trash Mini-Bosses (Tankers, Scrapper Hellies, Black Lungs, etc etc)
Highest Possible Drop: Blue
% Of No Drop: 0%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 50%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 35%
% Of Blue Drop on Kill: 15%


Fair enough



Power Mobs - (Dark Matter, Volge)
Highest Possible Drop: Blue
% Of No Drop: 60%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 30%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 8%
% Of Blue Drop on Kill: 2%


Dont agree at all, why should volgue have 60% chance of no loot?



Power Mini-Bosses - Hulkers, Monarchs, Vicera, Forges, Bulwarks etc
Highest Possible Drop: Purple
% Of No Drop: 0%
% Of White Drop on Kill: 0%
% Of Green Drop on Kill: 60%
% Of Blue Drop on Kill: 35%
% Of Purple Drop on Kill: 5%


Hulkers: 30 seconds solo at San Quentin.
Monarchs: 5-10 seconds solo using a ground pounder.

Why not?

We should get +rarity chance every ego level after ego 1000 since there is nothing new.

Alexri
08-06-2013, 04:14 AM
Bit store information specifically states that the loot boost increases the rarity of your loot,

I agree with you, but strictly speaking, the move from ammo/scrip/ark salvage to actual item drops can be said to be an increase in rarity

TravelerX1
08-06-2013, 06:03 AM
Fair enough
Dont agree at all, why should volgue have 60% chance of no loot?
Hulkers: 30 seconds solo at San Quentin.
Monarchs: 5-10 seconds solo using a ground pounder.

Why not?

We should get +rarity chance every ego level after ego 1000 since there is nothing new.


Hulker at Quentin..... Super power RLs.. otherwise no 30 seconds
Monarchs.... With any other weapon.... not so much, and I doubt it's 5-10 seconds.

Though I will agree with you on the Volge, I will edit that.

Love the + rarity bump on ego level..... unfortunately the chances of them implementing this.... about as rare as an orange world drop.

DarknessEyes PT
08-06-2013, 06:17 AM
Monarchs.... With any other weapon.... not so much, and I doubt it's 5-10 seconds.


My ground pounder have 6 mag and one mag is enough to kill a monarch :)

TravelerX1
08-06-2013, 06:19 AM
My ground pounder have 6 mag and one mag is enough to kill a monarch :)

Shhhhhhh they might nerf them with talk like that ;)

Thearl
08-06-2013, 06:33 AM
Only time I ever recall seeing a purple on the ground open world was when the Grenadier and Minigunner loot table was broken in Alpha and they started dropping 3 items everytime they were killed.
I have been in co-op and had a teammate "WOOT" becasue they got a purple off one of the elite tanker mobs. Never seen it myself, so it's pretty much hearsay until we see a screenshot.

Evolution
08-06-2013, 07:25 AM
Farm the Hulker in explosions 101 with 4 people, I've picked up a few purple from him (not sure exactly, more then 3 less then 10). I'm pretty sure I got one from a Volge Elite when they 1st launched. Never seen an orange drop though. Well, not outside of lock boxes.

I can't say much for orange drop rates, but for me purples are no big deal. They sell them at every standard weapon & mod vendor in the game for 5k scrip; you just need to check the specials. They're not ALWAYS there, but if you keep checking the shops eventually you'll run into some.

TravelerX1
08-06-2013, 07:29 AM
Farm the Hulker in explosions 101 with 4 people, I've picked up a few purple from him (not sure exactly, more then 3 less then 10). I'm pretty sure I got one from a Volge Elite when they 1st launched. Never seen an orange drop though. Well, not outside of lock boxes.

I can't say much for orange drop rates, but for me purples are no big deal. They sell them at every standard weapon & mod vendor in the game for 5k scrip; you just need to check the specials. They're not ALWAYS there, but if you keep checking the shops eventually you'll run into some.


How many Hulker runs would you say you did to see the purples?

I totally agree that purple weapons are no biggie.... but shields and nades.... would love to see them in vendors as well, or make them drop easier open world.

Evolution
08-06-2013, 07:38 AM
How many Hulker runs would you say you did to see the purples?
I couldn't even say, I just know he's dependable for blue or purple. It also "appears" to depend on who gets the kill shot.




I totally agree that purple weapons are no biggie.... but shields and nades.... would love to see them in vendors as well, or make them drop easier open world.

I think, and this is just speculation, that's why Arkfalls dropped nades and shields exclusively when the game launched. However I can't be certain of that.

Alexri
08-06-2013, 07:48 AM
I'll believe that purples and oranges can drop at all when I see a screenshot of it on the ground. Otherwise I'm going to keep believing that people got a purple from an arkfall or lockbox while the "no pop-up message"-bug was active and attributed it to the wrong thing.

DarknessEyes PT
08-06-2013, 11:12 AM
I'll believe that purples and oranges can drop at all when I see a screenshot of it on the ground. Otherwise I'm going to keep believing that people got a purple from an arkfall or lockbox while the "no pop-up message"-bug was active and attributed it to the wrong thing.

When i was ego 800 i got 2 purples at minwok ranch.
Not sure if Trion changed drop rates or something because i haven't seen any since then.