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View Full Version : What is the point of non-grenade explosives?



Trik
08-07-2013, 07:14 PM
I just started not long ago, I'm at EGO 400 something and have tried out pretty much all the weapons. I have to ask though if there is something I am very much missing when it comes to the rocket and grenade launchers. It just seems like the damage they do, no matter what one I try, is awful compared to an AR/LMG/SR.

For example I was doing the Srapper Major Arkfall earlier, when the core was expose I put two rockets from my purple launcher into it and got about 700 damage each. Alternative I can put three shots from my blue quality bolt action into it for 2700ish a piece in the same time, or use my lmg to rapidly plink it for 500ish damage a shot. Note that my LMG is green quality, my Bolt Action is blue and both are over 100 EGO ranks under what that purple rocketpod is (actually I got that bolt action at 98).

Is there something I'm missing? this feels completely backwards to the way it should be, shouldn't a much higher level purple quality rocket launcher beat the pants off of much lower level weapons when it comes to damage per shot in this situation?

Valethar
08-07-2013, 07:25 PM
Ego rating has very little effect on damage. A level 10 AR will have basically the same base damage as a level 1000 AR.

What EGO rating effects is the number of available mod slots (that you do not need to add via the Salvage Matrix) and what Synergies and other bonuses will be available.

At higher EGO levels, depending on the Perks you choose, that RL will do more damage, but overall, base weapons damage is a very flat curve throughout the leveling process. Your damage output will increase via the rarity, bonuses and Perks you acquire along the way.

Orbital
08-07-2013, 08:25 PM
explosives are mainly for attacking multiple smaller enemies, where as your rifles and guns are obviously mostly for single targets. During sieges a ground pounder was pretty devistating vs those inflicted.

Samyaza
08-07-2013, 09:03 PM
non explosive nades... are mostly for CC in pve or pvp... (they reveal cloaks)

Trik
08-08-2013, 01:27 AM
non explosive nades... are mostly for CC in pve or pvp... (they reveal cloaks)

I think you missread the thread title, I get the idea behind flashbangs and goo nades. I was asking what the point behind non-grenade explosives are, aka Detonators and Rocket Launchers.

My hand grenade does about 3300 damage on it's high end, which makes sense. However it seems like all of the RLs and GLs, that I have found anyway, do far less damage then simply using another standard weapon. Even in an infected event, I feel like I'm just wasting my time with a rocket. Maybe I just don't have the right perks or the right weapon yet.

Kyosji
08-08-2013, 04:24 AM
There are some weapons if used right do more damage than a grenade. I recently picked up a sawed off that fires 2 sticky explosives, each doing 1900. If you aim at the feet, or right ni front of the enemy when they are running at you, you have the chance to do around 3800. I hate the gun itself because it has a 3-4 second wait between shots, but it is a nice weapon to use against single targets when needed. Other than that, I agree with you.

Kibblehouse
08-08-2013, 05:54 AM
I think you need to work with them a bit more. Detonators and RL's can do tons of damage in the right situations. For a while I was using a Matchlock as my backup weapon on Missions and it got me out of alot of tight spots. If you compare stats it may not stand up to a Bolt Action for single target max damage, but if you lob that grenade into a group the AOE means your doing that damage on everyone it hits, plus if your on the run or not aiming particularly well it dosent matter so much you dont have to hit them, just get close enough to catch them in the blast. RL's have their place too, especially the ones which throw out bomblets, you can apply damage to a large area at once with these, or all to a single large target. I can take out Monarchs in about 4 shots with the right RL, tough to do that with an AR.

Detonators and RL's are not the perfect weapon they dont work for everything, I just would not be so quick to write them off, play with them some more, you may find a spot for them.

rom
08-08-2013, 06:03 AM
I know how you feel because i felt exactly the same when started playing this game. Rocket launchers in this game do crap damage compare to other games. I was so excited to get the unique Hydra Rocket Launcher for buying deluxe version of the game, but failed badly when use it in action.

Darx
08-08-2013, 06:13 AM
I agree that their damage is kinda weak compared to most other weapon types. However, you can do a lot more damage to those who need to be hit at certain weakspots.
The Monarch for example. I killed half his HP with my Mass Cannon in a singel shot, which actually turns into 4 shots!
Also Launchers with multiple warheads and detonators are good for indirect fire. Shooting dudes hiding behind barricades. 9ers tend to do that when there is an Arkfall. Bandits also like to get out of harms way.
Sticky detonators are great if you want to put it all on a single card. Like sticking five nades to a heavy guy, wait for someone to pop his shield, hit reload and wait until the limbs stopped raining :D

Dracian
08-08-2013, 06:15 AM
Detonators and RL have a very limited use, that's sure. However, some can be useful in certain situations :

- Mass Cannon : Interesting against Hellbug and group of ennemies. Useful in PvP (especially on Shadow War)
- AR2 Bonfire : Only interesting in PvP in some particular builds
- Sludge RL : same as Bonfire, only in PvP in support builds.
- GL-1 Ground Pounder : LE Detonator to use against Hellbugs (seems to ignore Warrior's and Monarch's armor DR). Useless on PvP, however.
- Big Boomer : Very good PVP weapon thanks to its very large blast radius
- GL-X Incinerator : Can be interesting in PvP (in some points, similar to the Bonfire)

Others are mostly sh!t, except perhaps for the Swarm Cannon on Observatory.

And remember to always use Deadly Cascade when using Detonators or RL, it'll gratly improve their efficiency against group of ennemies.

Nadar
08-08-2013, 06:42 AM
.... I recently picked up a sawed off that fires 2 sticky explosives, each doing 1900. If you aim at the feet, or right ni front of the enemy when they are running at you, you have the chance to do around 3800.....

You do need to be careful when using any of the sticky explosive weapons on targets running at you. Since the explosion is delayed, there is a decent chance that the target will get close enough to you that you'll get caught in it as well...rather embarrassing way to die.

With the right perks (e.g. deadly cascade) and targets that tend to group up (e.g. afflicted, hell bugs or some of the coop missions), the explosive weapons can be devastating. Against single targets though, most of them are fairly worthless.

<soap box>Don't use explosive weapons at arc falls...at least not after others have joined you at a crystal. Non explosive weapons are just as good or better and having a bunch of people spamming explosions is rather irritating. And before I get the 'I can play how I want to play' comments....sure you can but there is the concept of common courtesy...if you're an *****hole go ahead and ignore how your actions affect those around you. In this case, there are plenty of options that work just as well that doesn't adversely affect everyone else</soapbox>

Darx
08-08-2013, 07:19 AM
You do need to be careful when using any of the sticky explosive weapons on targets running at you. Since the explosion is delayed, there is a decent chance that the target will get close enough to you that you'll get caught in it as well...rather embarrassing way to die.

With the right perks (e.g. deadly cascade) and targets that tend to group up (e.g. afflicted, hell bugs or some of the coop missions), the explosive weapons can be devastating. Against single targets though, most of them are fairly worthless.

<soap box>Don't use explosive weapons at arc falls...at least not after others have joined you at a crystal. Non explosive weapons are just as good or better and having a bunch of people spamming explosions is rather irritating. And before I get the 'I can play how I want to play' comments....sure you can but there is the concept of common courtesy...if you're an *****hole go ahead and ignore how your actions affect those around you. In this case, there are plenty of options that work just as well that doesn't adversely affect everyone else</soapbox>

If you know how to use explosive weapons they don't affect anyone except those who should be affected. You don't have to necessarily blow up your Mass Cannon 30m in the air. You neither have to stop that little rogue skitterling running into a group of people with a Swarm Cannon. Sticky cluster grenades can also be attached to the feet instead of the head since their damage is indirect anyway. There are plenty of ways of keeping the annoying side effects to a minimum. Also there is that mysterious patch on it's way that is supposed to stop extensive screen shaking when using explosive weapons.
I'm surly no ******* but I won't stop using explosive weapons just because someone decided to melee the bandit I just locked on with my rocket launcher. Majo Arkfalls are a different story though. They quickly turn into chaos even with conventional weapons.

Nadar
08-08-2013, 07:59 AM
If you know how to use explosive weapons they don't affect anyone except those who should be affected. You don't have to necessarily blow up your Mass Cannon 30m in the air. You neither have to stop that little rogue skitterling running into a group of people with a Swarm Cannon. Sticky cluster grenades can also be attached to the feet instead of the head since their damage is indirect anyway. There are plenty of ways of keeping the annoying side effects to a minimum. Also there is that mysterious patch on it's way that is supposed to stop extensive screen shaking when using explosive weapons.
I'm surly no ******* but I won't stop using explosive weapons just because someone decided to melee the bandit I just locked on with my rocket launcher. Majo Arkfalls are a different story though. They quickly turn into chaos even with conventional weapons.

I did qualify my soapbox statement that is was directed at the arc falls. Perhaps when the patch that reduces the visual effects comes out it won't be so bad but right now, some of the arc falls are a visual pain because of the number of people spamming explosive weapons at them. There are times I can't even see the Monarch during the final phase of the arc fall because of the explosion visual effects.

I have no issue with them in the 'open world' or even in coop maps since usually the explosions are happening down range so the effects aren't so disruptive.

I'm also fine with some of the explosives...the sawed off flavor is fine since it is rather slow and actually does decent damage so it makes sense. I do question the value of using a rocket launcher on an individual target since the damage is rather pitiful and there are much better weapons for that situation.