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View Full Version : DM Minor and Volge Siege Initial Impressions



BJWyler
08-10-2013, 09:28 AM
Had the opportunity to attempt a Dark Matter Minor Arkfall and a Volge siege before hitting EGO 100. The Siege was entertaining and seemed well balanced when I and one other player were playing the Siege. Can't wait to get more people in to see how much it ramps up.

The Arkfall, however was a different story. It took a minute or two to see what the concept was (appears similar with the Scrapper ones in that you need to kill DM while they are charging at one of the stations around the crystal). This one I had to attempt solo, and it seemed way OPed for a single player. The DMs charged too quickly and became too powerful once they were charged. They essentially were able to one shot me and there was no way I would be able to complete this Arkfall solo.

While I appreciate the fact that we are supposed to be playing in groups, that may not always be possible. I don't necessarily want the difficulty on the Alpha Test to be different than what would be on live. But comparing the Siege Experience with the Minor Arkfall, it seemed the Arkfall was out of balance with the experience, especially considering that it was a minor and not a major.

Dracian
08-10-2013, 09:48 AM
I still have to test these DM arkfalls but the Volge Sieges were damn good.

However, as I mentioned in an other post, I have the feeling that Turret kills and assists only register if you have hit the enemy with your weapon. Dunno if it's on purpose or if it's a bug, but that's quite annoying (especially after investing 2000+ Ark Salvage to fully upgrade the tower).

N7_Legion
08-10-2013, 09:56 AM
I also had the opportunity to try both Volge major and minor arkfalls solo, very late last night. Needless to say, my experience was much like yours! It ended very quick for me!

The Volge sieges are excellent, however there were a few bugs I encountered. 1) At around 2:50 left in the siege, the siege would not progress further, no new enemies spawned and players had to wait out the clock for it to end. This happened twice to me. 2) Had an incident were a volge Viscera just stood there and did nothing will three of us players stood in front of it and blasted it in the head, from full health until it was dead.

Cavadus
08-10-2013, 10:16 AM
This one I had to attempt solo, and it seemed way OPed for a single player.

****ing finally! Can't wait for it to hit live :)

Iceberg
08-10-2013, 01:11 PM
****ing finally! Can't wait for it to hit live :)

So you like unbalanced systems, or do you call that challenging?

As for the DM ark fall, seems they need to lower the damage and resistance a bit if one person is there, if 2 players then put it at default since you can, theoretically, have the other player revive you.

Sliverbaer
08-10-2013, 02:10 PM
Sieges were great. OMG those bombers are awesome.

How'd you get that far in the story to get to San Fran, or was the DM arkfall in the main area?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7451/9479488803_2c42b51ef4_c.jpg

DarknessEyes PT
08-10-2013, 02:21 PM
So you like unbalanced systems, or do you call that challenging?

As for the DM ark fall, seems they need to lower the damage and resistance a bit if one person is there, if 2 players then put it at default since you can, theoretically, have the other player revive you.

I havent tried it yet but i agree that new arkfall should be much more difficult... and i really hope they keep it that way.
Maybe now i can revive 100 players in arkfalls :)

Iceberg
08-10-2013, 04:28 PM
I havent tried it yet but i agree that new arkfall should be much more difficult... and i really hope they keep it that way.
Maybe now i can revive 100 players in arkfalls :)

Only if they disable the self revive while you are in them :P

Yewa
08-10-2013, 05:33 PM
the new DM arkfall is very difficult for solo if you let a couple of dark matter energize themselves they'll basically obliterate you, if you stay in the open. (theres plenty of cover though).

you can also energize yourself and become super badass to damage the crystal.

edit: actually I think it's not that difficult once you learn how to energize yourself. The concept is different from the scrappers, you have to energize yourself to attack the crystal.

Solid Snake
08-10-2013, 05:57 PM
No one said anything about the metalge.. i mean the monotlih arkfall.. did they not add that in?

DarknessEyes PT
08-10-2013, 06:15 PM
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7451/9479488803_2c42b51ef4_c.jpg
Bugged no?
1+1 scrip and 1+1 keycode? Why not just one field for scrip and for keycodes.
The rewards should be increased and there is one item missing from lockbox... tier II gives only 1 item and tier III gives only 2 items.

bigdawg21180
08-10-2013, 06:23 PM
Sieges were great. OMG those bombers are awesome.

How'd you get that far in the story to get to San Fran, or was the DM arkfall in the main area?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7451/9479488803_2c42b51ef4_c.jpg

Is it just my eyes playing tricks on me or did u only get 2 scrip for completing the siege? So much for increasing scrip output

BJWyler
08-10-2013, 07:18 PM
Sieges were great. OMG those bombers are awesome.

How'd you get that far in the story to get to San Fran, or was the DM arkfall in the main area?

They were in the main area. Since we have to start from scratch, I need to play through the storyline until I can get to San Fran. I was just able to get the Alpha client installed last night and finally start playing today, so a ways to go before I can unlock SF. Right now, I just drove around the mainland to unlock all the QT points to make hitting the new stuff easier.


No one said anything about the metalge.. i mean the monotlih arkfall.. did they not add that in?

They are in - I saw a major on the map in San Fran, but can't get there yet.


the new DM arkfall is very difficult for solo if you let a couple of dark matter energize themselves they'll basically obliterate you, if you stay in the open. (theres plenty of cover though).

you can also energize yourself and become super badass to damage the crystal.

edit: actually I think it's not that difficult once you learn how to energize yourself. The concept is different from the scrappers, you have to energize yourself to attack the crystal.

That could be part of the problem then - as much as I dislike a chatty EGO ("look! That skitterling just bit...."), in this instance, some additional instruction would have been helpful on this front. But again, it's not just a matter of learning the tricks, it's a matter of perception.

I would like to assume that the Volge should be the toughest enemies in the game (one step above DM). However, in this case, DM was a hellavalot more badass then the Volge. It was at the point where I was able to stand up to Volge longer - with another player in the event to ramp up the difficulty than I was with Dark Matter at a point where the event should be at its "weakest." The boss event for a Major Arkfall, yes I can absolutely see it being that difficult, however, for just a minor Arkfall it felt a lot more frustrating than fun at this point.

On another note for the Siege, I am wondering if the points gained from kills and assists might not need to be bumped up a bit. In the first Siege, where it was just two of us, I could not break the 15000 mark (just missed), even though I beat out my partner. In the second Siege, when there were a lot more players, I actually scored lower, even though we ended up getting two additional stages (8 in that one, 6 in the first as I recall). It wasn't until the third one that I was finally able to get over 15000, but was only one of 3 players to do so, and we still did not reach stage 10 of that Siege.

Sliverbaer
08-10-2013, 08:18 PM
Here's another scoring. Yeah, didn't notice the 1+1 and 1+1 rewards. Weird, I dunno.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2889/9481327805_92b403875a_c.jpg

I did make it to the tailend of one at the refinery, but I guess I didn't get a screenshot, I was too busy getting obliterated.

Sliverbaer
08-10-2013, 09:58 PM
Got Blue Bio Grenade & Blue Flash Grenade

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7389/9481715971_d46b7e8038_c.jpg

Did get a purple Afflictor from a major arkfall, though.

Cavadus
08-10-2013, 10:33 PM
So you like unbalanced systems, or do you call that challenging?

Arkfalls aren't solo content and I don't QQ about group content so I'm stoked.

Sliverbaer
08-10-2013, 11:45 PM
Went back into the Chat window 'Rewards' tab. It looks like rewarded 2 sets of 1000 script and 2 sets of 4 keycodes.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3763/9482185129_46a98d32dc_o.png

I actually recorded this one using Fraps. I may upload it to youtube, if anyone is interesting in seeing a 17minute siege. (And me incaping a bunch.)

BJWyler
08-12-2013, 09:08 AM
OK, an update after the initial impressions have worn off.

Again, the Volge Sieges are top notch. I think with an adjustment to the scoring system, they can be equitable and fun for everyone, yet still remain challenging. The only issue I see here is with reaching Stage 10. I have participated in about a half dozen at this point, and Stage 8 is the farthest any of them have gotten. In the last one (this morning EDT), there was was "dead" time in between spawns during one stage which wasted some time, so I think an adjustment to the timer and the requirements for completing a stage need to be adjusted. At this point, I don't see how it would be possible to get to stage 10 within the overall time limit.

Dark Matter Minor Arkfalls. No change in impression for the one with the EGO boost. Still overpowered for a low number of players. Again, content that requires a zerg group can be fun (unless you are playing GW2 ;P), but the difficulty needs to be adjusted on the lower end. I don't think you should necessarily be able to complete the Arkfalls solo, but you should be able to at least hold your own until more players arrive or the time runs out and you fail the event. Right now, it is just way OPed.

For the second Minor Arkfall, where you survive the waves of Dark Matter - that one I liked, and seemed more balance. I did not find it frustrating and felt I could hold my own against that one, even if it meant event failure because the time ran out.

And now, finally, my first Major Arkfall. Let me say this first - I loved the concept and the mechanics. Very different from the others, with a lot to mix up and just the right amount of chaos going on at the time. For this one, we had about 10-12 players total. Now, the bad parts:
- Again the powerup minors where OPed - especially after the Bulwarks appeared. We just barely managed to destroy the crystal to trigger the boss event with 5 seconds to spare. The other ones, which were the Wave Survival were much more fun and well balanced.
- It seems the final event was simply made to help players reach 100 rezzes by doing only a couple of the arkfalls. It was terrible, outside of the design concept. A major Arkfall should be completable by the number of players we had to pull from. Unfortunately it was event fail and no rewards for all the aggravation leading up to the final fight. Players were down more often than not (and extractions were plentiful simply because we couldn't keep up - as soon as someone was rezzed, the rezzer and the rezzie both went down again) and it was very difficult in wearing down the Monolith with the number of players we had.

Like the minor arkfall, the event needs adjustment on the lower end of the spectrum to reduce the number and types of Dark Matter enemies that spawn. The Dark Matter powerups need to be nerfed a bit IMO on the low end as well. In terms of the Monolith, it was clear to me with 7-8 minutes left in the event that we wouldn't be able to do enough damage to the Monolith to win the event. It did not help that we only had a few seconds to get shots off at the main core before it rose up and disappeared for a minute or two at a time. IMO, once the timer hits the 5 minutes to go mark, the Monolith should no longer have the ability to fly and allow for smaller groups to continue to wear it down and have a chance of event completion.

Cavadus
08-12-2013, 09:24 AM
Is it really too much to ask that ONE faction's worth of minor and major arkfalls be difficult? Dark Matter are the most difficult enemies in the game (sorry, Volge, but it's true).

Does everything have to be easy-mode? Let this one stay difficult. The other major arkfalls are foregone conclusions that require zero skill, zero communication, zero coordination, and zero thought.

Let something in this game be difficult, please! We currently have nothing that is challenging on the PvE side of content.

I'd love to have something that was difficult enough to get everyone online in my guild interested and working together rather than just another arkfall type where we damage a few mobs, heal a player or two, and then run off to the ammo point to farm rezzes for those who need them or simply leave to tag the next arkfall while key farming.

Dark Matter are the big baddies of PvE. Let's not nerf'em.

BJWyler
08-12-2013, 09:33 AM
Is it really too much to ask that ONE faction's worth of minor and major arkfalls be difficult? Dark Matter are the most difficult enemies in the game (sorry, Volge, but it's true).

Does everything have to be easy-mode? Let this one stay difficult. The other major arkfalls are foregone conclusions that require zero skill, zero communication, zero coordination, and zero thought.

Let something in this game be difficult, please! We currently have nothing that is challenging on the PvE side of content.

I'd love to have something that was difficult enough to get everyone online in my guild interested and working together rather than just another arkfall type where we damage a few mobs, heal a player or two, and then run off to the ammo point to farm rezzes for those who need them or simply leave to tag the next arkfall while key farming.

Dark Matter are the big baddies of PvE. Let's not nerf'em.

Not talking about dumbing down the overall content. I think the new Dark Matter Arkfalls and the concepts are quite good and enjoyable. The problem is that the scaling of the difficulty is way off IMO. The starting scale of difficulty (where you have one player in the area) seems more attuned to a group of a dozen or more. I am simply suggesting that the bottom of the difficulty scale be adjusted accordingly so that smaller groups of players are essentially one shot on a constant basis. That makes for more frustration than fun. No one should be able to solo Arkfalls - but along with that, Arkfalls should at least offer some hope of holding your own until the masses arrive. The Dark Matter ones, with the exception of the Wave Survival do not, at this point in time.

And sorry Volge should be more badass than Dark Matter. They are the baddies that cross over into the show - they are the main antagonists to both Votan and Human alike, and should be treated as such in the game.

Cavadus
08-12-2013, 10:20 AM
The starting scale of difficulty (where you have one player in the area) seems more attuned to a group of a dozen or more.

That sounds perfect to me. I wish all arkfall were like this.

BJWyler
08-12-2013, 10:32 AM
That sounds perfect to me. I wish all arkfall were like this.

Which would make them impractical, hence the scaling that adjusts for larger groups. There is nothing wrong with having open world content accommodate a smaller size group when the difficulty dynamically adjusts the content to provide the suitable challenge. When a group of 4 or 5 people come across and Arkfall or other such content, and they all say "well, would be fun to play, but we can't because there aren't enough people - let's go farm such and such boring content for the upteenth time" that equates to bad design, unhappy players, and eventually a dead game.

Difficulty has nothing to do with the matter since the game scales the difficulty to the amount of players. Hence good game design that does not punish players by preventing access to content simply because there is not enough of them to participate in it.

Slyfox2001
08-12-2013, 10:39 AM
Not talking about dumbing down the overall content. I think the new Dark Matter Arkfalls and the concepts are quite good and enjoyable. The problem is that the scaling of the difficulty is way off IMO. The starting scale of difficulty (where you have one player in the area) seems more attuned to a group of a dozen or more. I am simply suggesting that the bottom of the difficulty scale be adjusted accordingly so that smaller groups of players are essentially one shot on a constant basis. That makes for more frustration than fun. No one should be able to solo Arkfalls - but along with that, Arkfalls should at least offer some hope of holding your own until the masses arrive. The Dark Matter ones, with the exception of the Wave Survival do not, at this point in time.

And sorry Volge should be more badass than Dark Matter. They are the baddies that cross over into the show - they are the main antagonists to both Votan and Human alike, and should be treated as such in the game.

No. No no no. I haven't played any of the above, but, just, NO! Don't make anything easier, scale wise. There is, like another person said, NO challenge to this game for a lot of players. Don't nerf the arkfall so that one or two people can finish it. Can't we have some things that actually require a GROUP of people to complete? If someone wants to solo something (or tiny group something), go to a Co-Op, any other Arkfall, Emergency, Rampage, Time-Trial, Story Mission, Side Mission, Episode Mission, or basically ANY OTHER THING IN THE GAME!

Merry Christmas! :)

Slyfox2001
08-12-2013, 10:43 AM
Which would make them impractical, hence the scaling that adjusts for larger groups. There is nothing wrong with having open world content accommodate a smaller size group when the difficulty dynamically adjusts the content to provide the suitable challenge. When a group of 4 or 5 people come across and Arkfall or other such content, and they all say "well, would be fun to play, but we can't because there aren't enough people - let's go farm such and such boring content for the upteenth time" that equates to bad design, unhappy players, and eventually a dead game.

Difficulty has nothing to do with the matter since the game scales the difficulty to the amount of players. Hence good game design that does not punish players by preventing access to content simply because there is not enough of them to participate in it.

I wish this was the case, more so. However, I play on the 360 and there are ALWAYS 50 billion people running from Arkfall to Arkfall. There is NEVER any challenge at any of these because they don't scale, at all. You can stand there and shoot the clouds if you want and never die. About time they added something that required a group to complete.

If you are with your buddies, like you said, and run across one of these and go "wah," then go find something else or get a better group of people to play with (or more). Personally, I don't foresee there being any lack of people at these Arkfalls such that it would be impossible to do.

Finally I might actually get to enjoy an Arkfall.

Cavadus
08-12-2013, 10:49 AM
Which would make them impractical...

Impractical to whom? Some solo casual player?

No offense but ohnoes. All PvE content in the game already caters to that group. There are videos of players soloing MAJOR ARKFALLS.

We need this; don't ruin it.

If anything what I took from your synopsis wasn't that these arkfalls don't scale well with fewer players, but that the difficulty doesn't scale well with lots of players. Sounds like it's way too easy once you get 15-20 players in the area.

Buff DM arkfalls, please.

BJWyler
08-12-2013, 11:36 AM
@slyfox and @cavadus:
Please learn to read. Where did I say they should make the Arkfalls should be soloable. Please quote it - I'll wait because if you find it, then I need to edit that post because it was unintentional.... Ahh, nothing, I thought so.

Again, what I would like to see is the scaling of the Arkfall difficulty be adjusted so that it corresponds better with the number of people who happen to be in that area and participating in the event. Right now, the lower end of the scale is OPed for the one minor that occurs by itself in the world as well as when it is combined into the major event. If the high end also needs adjustment to ramp up the difficulty, I am all for that as well. Unfortunately, that is hard to test at the moment since there aren't a lot of people on the AT server in order to see how much it ramps up (if at all).

It's good you have tons of people to play with on the XBox, Sly. Little surprise since the majority of sales was for that platform. But please remember, this is a multi-platform game and the PC and PS don't have as many players, so group content needs to be designed accordingly. There are also many instances I have found on my platform (PC) where there are very few people playing at the time that I am able to play, on more than once occassion. In fact, there have been two instances where I was tooling around at major scrapper arkfalls leveling weapons because I was the only one participating in the Arkfall . I wasn't able to complete it solo, and again, nor should I be, but that is no excuse to prevent me from at least participating and experiencing the event for 20 minutes and making my time feel worthwhile. There is no excuse in this day and age of MMO gaming where content should be unplayable for a group of people, whether it be 4 or 5 of them or 40 or 50.

To turn the phrase, if you If you are with your buddies, and find the content too easy and go "wah," then go find something else or get a better game to play with. Wow, doesn't that sound trolly and unacceptable now. A mass market game needs to be designed to cater to the mass market audience. The majority of the mass market audience is the casual player who tends to play in smaller groups. Again, nothing to say that having a sliding scale of difficulty shouldn't be in these games, but it needs to be equitable on both ends.

Tekrunner
08-12-2013, 11:42 AM
I think I might have played the same arkfall as you did BJWyler, though only the final boss part of it. I didn't feel like people were going down more than they should have (with more training I'm sure we'll learn to get the hell out of dodge when enemies activate an EGO boost), but I really think that either the Monolith's health should be lowered a bit (at least at the lower end of the scaling curve), or its neck should remain exposed longer. Also, once all dark matter enemies have been cleared, the Monolith should come back immediately, instead of staying hidden in the sky for another 20 seconds.

I mean, I get that we'll get better at these arkfalls over time. We're clearly supposed to save EGO boosts to inflict major damage on the neck, and that's not trivial to execute, so we probably didn't do things quite right. But I feel like we were a sizable group, playing decently well (no one was shooting at the monolith with a BMG or an infector). We should at least have been able to finish the event. Maybe not with a wide margin, but still.

BJWyler
08-12-2013, 12:04 PM
@tekrunner. For the final event, you are probably right with the deaths. I was thinking of the entire event overall, although in my example of the rez and double kill, that happened a couple of times in the boss fight near where I was. There simply wasn't enough time to get someone rezzed and get out of the way. My fear is that, if the events go in as they are, a lot more people are going to be lying on the ground waiting for a rez that may never come. The longer one waits, the sooner one is to either use the self or just say the hell with the event altogether if that becomes the pattern.

Obviously, things are going to be a little difficult to get a full grasp on since we basically have noob characters running around. It will sure to be easier once we get our high EGO toons back in the game, but that is irrespective of the group scaling factor. I wholeheartedly agree, as much as I enjoyed the new mechanics of the event, the only thing I could think of afterwards, was "Well, that was a waste of 40 minutes." Yeah, with the proper scaling, there is no reason a group of 12-15 shouldn't have reasonable expectations of completing this event successfully.

Slyfox2001
08-12-2013, 12:38 PM
@slyfox and @cavadus:
Please learn to read. Where did I say they should make the Arkfalls should be soloable. Please quote it - I'll wait because if you find it, then I need to edit that post because it was unintentional.... Ahh, nothing, I thought so.

Again, what I would like to see is the scaling of the Arkfall difficulty be adjusted so that it corresponds better with the number of people who happen to be in that area and participating in the event. Right now, the lower end of the scale is OPed for the one minor that occurs by itself in the world as well as when it is combined into the major event. If the high end also needs adjustment to ramp up the difficulty, I am all for that as well. Unfortunately, that is hard to test at the moment since there aren't a lot of people on the AT server in order to see how much it ramps up (if at all).

It's good you have tons of people to play with on the XBox, Sly. Little surprise since the majority of sales was for that platform. But please remember, this is a multi-platform game and the PC and PS don't have as many players, so group content needs to be designed accordingly. There are also many instances I have found on my platform (PC) where there are very few people playing at the time that I am able to play, on more than once occassion. In fact, there have been two instances where I was tooling around at major scrapper arkfalls leveling weapons because I was the only one participating in the Arkfall . I wasn't able to complete it solo, and again, nor should I be, but that is no excuse to prevent me from at least participating and experiencing the event for 20 minutes and making my time feel worthwhile. There is no excuse in this day and age of MMO gaming where content should be unplayable for a group of people, whether it be 4 or 5 of them or 40 or 50.

To turn the phrase, if you If you are with your buddies, and find the content too easy and go "wah," then go find something else or get a better game to play with. Wow, doesn't that sound trolly and unacceptable now. A mass market game needs to be designed to cater to the mass market audience. The majority of the mass market audience is the casual player who tends to play in smaller groups. Again, nothing to say that having a sliding scale of difficulty shouldn't be in these games, but it needs to be equitable on both ends.

First off, thanks for clearly giving me some time to respond: "Please quote it - I'll wait because if you find it, then I need to edit that post because it was unintentional.... Ahh, nothing, I thought so." That right there makes me think you don't care about actual conversation and more about "being right" in an opinionated forum. Kudos.

"Please learn to read. Where did I say they should make the Arkfalls should be soloable." Where did I say that you said that they should be? I said, "Don't nerf the arkfall so that one or two people can finish it." I said that in response to your post about the scaling being too far off with a few amount of people at the arkfall. I don't want the arkfalls to be easy enough for that. You said, "...Arkfalls should at least offer some hope of holding your own until the masses arrive." How long should this be for? Five minutes? Ten? Two? No idea... but because of this, it would have to be easier and for players like myself, this would indicate that the arkfall is TOO EASY. I posted about how there is NO CHALLENGE to the arkfalls and I exaggerated a case so that they do not get nerfed.

You say that the lower end of the scaling difficulty is overpowered. Okay, that's your opinion, right? My opinion is that it should stay that way, to where you NEED a group to even chance a victory. Again, there is NO CHALLENGE to this game and I want to rely on my friends/strangers to help achieve a victory. This is opinionated, much like your piece(s).

Yes, I play on the 360 and, guess what? What I wrote about the 360 part was opinionated and from MY PERSPECTIVE. Why would I comment about the PC if that's not what I use? If you want to write about the PC side and there not being enough people (or whatever), fine, do that, but don't address me and my opinionated posts as if I am wrong.

"There is no excuse in this day and age of MMO gaming where content should be unplayable for a group of people, whether it be 4 or 5 of them or 40 or 50." Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there instances or something in WOW where you need more than 4 or 5 people to complete them? If so, is WOW not in this day and age? If not, what would you classify "this day and age" to be?

"To turn the phrase, if you If you are with your buddies, and find the content too easy and go "wah," then go find something else or get a better game to play with." <--- Which was in response to me saying ---> "If you are with your buddies, like you said, and run across one of these and go "wah," then go find something else or get a better group of people to play with (or more)." You misunderstood me or you directly felt attacked and jumped on the defensive. I never said anything about playing another game, let alone a better one. I suggested that you find "something else." We were talking about arkfalls. "Something else" refers to any other aspect of Defiance, other than the Dark Matter arkfalls. Seriously though, if something is too hard for a group of people, don't they have the option to do something else, find more people to play with, or find better people to play with? If my quote is off, then I apologize. If you took offense to "wah," then I apologize.

"Wow, doesn't that sound trolly..." I don't understand what you mean by this... having the appearance of a troll?

My reply to you, sir, is opinionated and filled with condescension, where applicable. From your first paragraph on through, you set the tone to be an ***, as I believe it to be. Though I do agree with you on a lot of the things you said, please try to refrain from being an *** when responding to someone's post. I'm pretty sure I didn't attack you on the other two I quoted you on, but if I did, I apologize. This post, however, well, read it as you may. Good day, sir.

Cavadus
08-12-2013, 12:40 PM
Right now, the lower end of the scale is OPed for the one minor that occurs by itself in the world as well as when it is combined into the major event.

I understand what you're saying, and I understand that you personally feel these arkfalls are too difficult for small groups of players.

There's nothing difficult to grasp about that.

I disagree with you. It's not because I'm stupid, it's not because I don't understand the words you're typing, it's because I don't agree with your opinion that these arkfalls should be made easier for small groups of players.

I would like to see that level of difficulty translated to large groups of players.

You don't need to be insulting simply because we disagree here. You want it easier for small groups of players; I don't. I want the current difficulty for small groups retained and I'd like to see that same level of difficulty translated into the large group experience.

TLDR: I want DM arkfalls to be the hardest PvE content in the entire game. I want them to be brutal. I want them to be something that solo players flee from the sight of.

I want this challenge. You don't. That's fine.

Rainbird
08-12-2013, 03:22 PM
I also had the opportunity to try both Volge major and minor arkfalls solo, very late last night. Needless to say, my experience was much like yours! It ended very quick for me!

The Volge sieges are excellent, however there were a few bugs I encountered. 1) At around 2:50 left in the siege, the siege would not progress further, no new enemies spawned and players had to wait out the clock for it to end. This happened twice to me. 2) Had an incident were a volge Viscera just stood there and did nothing will three of us players stood in front of it and blasted it in the head, from full health until it was dead.

Tks for the heads up on the bug.

Next time can you tell us WHERE and WHAT STAGE you got to when it became gated?

For the brain dead NPC, can you take a screen shot of it that shows the rough location of it and also tell us the stage?

This way we can track it down and squash the bug.

tks again!

Rainbird
08-12-2013, 03:28 PM
Bugged no?
1+1 scrip and 1+1 keycode? Why not just one field for scrip and for keycodes.
The rewards should be increased and there is one item missing from lockbox... tier II gives only 1 item and tier III gives only 2 items.

I believe this is a bug that was already fixed but has not gotten out there yet. If you check chat, I think you'll see what you really ended up with.

But please reply back to here if that is NOT the case (i.e. the end screen is actually what you ended up with).

DarknessEyes PT
08-12-2013, 03:49 PM
I believe this is a bug that was already fixed but has not gotten out there yet. If you check chat, I think you'll see what you really ended up with.

But please reply back to here if that is NOT the case (i.e. the end screen is actually what you ended up with).

I noticed the rewards on chat :) http://2fun4ucorporation.com/defiance/ABug08.PNG

tier II give only 1 item and tier III gives only 2 items, is this bugged or Volgue lockbox give less items?

Tekrunner
08-12-2013, 03:55 PM
Cavadus, have you even tried a DM major arkfall? I'm all for making the game more challenging, but arkfalls should remain doable as long as you're doing them with a sizable group. Doing an entire major arkfall and failing to complete it by a small margin is a very frustrating experience, since you get pretty much no reward at all.

So, making major arkfalls hard to finish fast, sure. Scaling rewards depending on player rank or time to complete, great. But making them hard to finish, meh.

BJWyler
08-12-2013, 04:20 PM
First off, thanks for clearly giving me some time to respond: "Please quote it - I'll wait because if you find it, then I need to edit that post because it was unintentional.... Ahh, nothing, I thought so." That right there makes me think you don't care about actual conversation and more about "being right" in an opinionated forum. Kudos.

"Please learn to read. Where did I say they should make the Arkfalls should be soloable." Where did I say that you said that they should be?
I do care, but when a post is written in such a way that it seems the writer is putting words in my mouth, I am going to call them out on it. My previous post was directed to both of you, but that does not necessarily mean that everything in the post was a direct rebuttal against you.


I said, "Don't nerf the arkfall so that one or two people can finish it." I said that in response to your post about the scaling being too far off with a few amount of people at the arkfall. I don't want the arkfalls to be easy enough for that. You said, "...Arkfalls should at least offer some hope of holding your own until the masses arrive." How long should this be for? Five minutes? Ten? Two? No idea... but because of this, it would have to be easier and for players like myself, this would indicate that the arkfall is TOO EASY. I posted about how there is NO CHALLENGE to the arkfalls and I exaggerated a case so that they do not get nerfed.
Minor Arkfalls should accommodate at minimum groups of 4-5 players (which is the standard group in the game). Therefore a group of that size should be able to see the Arkfall through to completion who are working in an organized manner. For groups of less than 4, they should at least be able to play the Arkfall without being one shot half a dozen or more times during the event. However, they should not be able to deal out enough damage to produce a win event at the end of the Arkfall, but not also get overwhelmed by a zerg of NPCs. This is not a nerf – this is a rebalance of the scaling system (which I think should be applied to all Arkfalls, and not just Dark Matter), in which the lower end provides a challenge, but one that is not frustratingly difficult, to small groups and solo players, but also ramps up the power when there is a zerg group at the event. Of course the boss event for a Major Arkfall should ramp up even more so because one can presume that we would have several smaller groups from the minors converging on that event. However, I think the 4-5 still stands for the minors within that Major Arkfall, but I don't think that a lone group of 4-5 should necessarily be able to finish a complete Major on their own. Like Tekrunner said, a group of more than twice that size like we had, however should have a reasonable expectation of being able to complete it.


You say that the lower end of the scaling difficulty is overpowered. Okay, that's your opinion, right? My opinion is that it should stay that way, to where you NEED a group to even chance a victory. Again, there is NO CHALLENGE to this game and I want to rely on my friends/strangers to help achieve a victory. This is opinionated, much like your piece(s).
And again, I agree with needing a group to produce a win event. However, my opinion the size of the group to produce a win is based on the overall design and direction of the game. Defiance as a game was not designed to be overly challenging as a shooter because it was built to cater more to the mass market audience that a crossover with a TV show would attract.


Yes, I play on the 360 and, guess what? What I wrote about the 360 part was opinionated and from MY PERSPECTIVE. Why would I comment about the PC if that's not what I use? If you want to write about the PC side and there not being enough people (or whatever), fine, do that, but don't address me and my opinionated posts as if I am wrong.
I didn’t say your opinion was wrong. I was simply pointing out that your assumption that there will always be enough players to complete these types of events is wrong, and offered my examples of such. I am an officer in one of the (if not the) largest clan on PC NA. Even as such, it not always easy getting enough players together for a big event at certain times, let alone having enough players in a given area as a whole to participate in open world events.


"There is no excuse in this day and age of MMO gaming where content should be unplayable for a group of people, whether it be 4 or 5 of them or 40 or 50." Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there instances or something in WOW where you need more than 4 or 5 people to complete them? If so, is WOW not in this day and age? If not, what would you classify "this day and age" to be?
WoW is game that is nearly a decade old, and even Blizzard realizes the glory days are waning. Regardless, in this day and age, the old school way of playing MMOs is gone. The era of the poopsocker has ended, and the days of the 40 man raid have past. Even WoW veterans acknowledge that fact. This is the day and age of the casual gamer where players want their content in bite sized chunks and prefer smaller more intimate groups for their encounters. That’s not to say that we don’t have enough of a base to support 40 man raids, but like WoW, these need to be instanced areas. Open World events need to accommodate the new bread and butter player of the MMO – the casual gamer.


"To turn the phrase, if you If you are with your buddies, and find the content too easy and go "wah," then go find something else or get a better game to play with." <--- Which was in response to me saying ---> "If you are with your buddies, like you said, and run across one of these and go "wah," then go find something else or get a better group of people to play with (or more)." You misunderstood me or you directly felt attacked and jumped on the defensive. I never said anything about playing another game, let alone a better one. I suggested that you find "something else." We were talking about arkfalls. "Something else" refers to any other aspect of Defiance, other than the Dark Matter arkfalls. Seriously though, if something is too hard for a group of people, don't they have the option to do something else, find more people to play with, or find better people to play with? If my quote is off, then I apologize. If you took offense to "wah," then I apologize.

"Wow, doesn't that sound trolly..." I don't understand what you mean by this... having the appearance of a troll?
I rarely get offended – except by clear and present stupidity, so don’t sweat it. However, your comment does not take into account that there really is nothing else to do once the storyline and achievements have been completed, therefore, telling a small group of players to go find something else to do in game (i.e. the same boring grind they have been doing) is not acceptable. My reference was made because there is simply not enough for the “hardcore” player to do in this game, aside from PvP. That’s by design as I have mentioned before, thus if one wants to find a challenge, one must go find another game that offers such a challenge at this point. Not that I want people to stop playing the game, but the general attitude that usually goes into making that kind of statement (go do something else), when I have encountered it in the past has been pretty asinine, avoids the problems, and offers no real solution to said problems. So when I see it, I offer the asininity in return just to troll.



My reply to you, sir, is opinionated and filled with condescension, where applicable. From your first paragraph on through, you set the tone to be an ***, as I believe it to be. Though I do agree with you on a lot of the things you said, please try to refrain from being an *** when responding to someone's post. I'm pretty sure I didn't attack you on the other two I quoted you on, but if I did, I apologize. This post, however, well, read it as you may. Good day, sir.
Hey what can I say – I am a proud fanboi, a proud hater, and a proud *** whenever I think the situation calls for it. I apologize for the length of this post, but I felt it important to clarify some of my points as well as my trolly comments.

BJWyler
08-12-2013, 04:32 PM
For the sake of not making the previous post any longer that it already was, I'll make a new post.


I understand what you're saying, and I understand that you personally feel these arkfalls are too difficult for small groups of players.

There's nothing difficult to grasp about that.

I disagree with you. It's not because I'm stupid, it's not because I don't understand the words you're typing, it's because I don't agree with your opinion that these arkfalls should be made easier for small groups of players.

I would like to see that level of difficulty translated to large groups of players.

You don't need to be insulting simply because we disagree here. You want it easier for small groups of players; I don't. I want the current difficulty for small groups retained and I'd like to see that same level of difficulty translated into the large group experience.

TLDR: I want DM arkfalls to be the hardest PvE content in the entire game. I want them to be brutal. I want them to be something that solo players flee from the sight of.

I want this challenge. You don't. That's fine.

See, here’s the thing. Challenge and difficulty does not need to be directly relational to the number of players when event scaling is in place. I know WoW has put gamers in the mental state that content that requires more players to complete must by nature be harder, but that’s the old static way of thinking. Thanks to games like Rift, GW2, and Defiance, we now have event scaling in place where the difficulty and challenge can remain the same in proportion to the number of players completing content. It’s unfortunate that the Arkfalls and to a lesser extent, the Sieges suffer from the same open world zergfest that detracted from GW2’s dynamic events. However, I think the scaling on the Sieges works better, in part because the latter stages are by design harder than the earlier ones, outside of the event scaling system. That same concept needs to be applied to the Arkfalls to prevent them from falling into the same zergfest trap that they are destined to be unless the event scaling is adjusted across the board. It’s not about not wanting a challenge, it’s making sure it is equitable across the board – not only for the majority of the playerbase, but the lesser skilled casual player and the highly skilled hardcore player as well.

As I have said before, it would be nice to have a wider difficultly sliding scale that players can choose to use to ramp up their challenge in the entire world, like Guild Wars did with Hard Mode. Unfortunately, it was easier in GW because zones were instanced. However, I don’t think having the same choice here is without the realm of possibility using the phasing mechanic. Right now, the phasing helps with the load balancing, so it might be conceivable to have a flag set on a player’s DB indicating they are in hard mode, and all such players are then sent to their own phase.

N7_Legion
08-12-2013, 05:00 PM
Tks for the heads up on the bug.

Next time can you tell us WHERE and WHAT STAGE you got to when it became gated?

For the brain dead NPC, can you take a screen shot of it that shows the rough location of it and also tell us the stage?

This way we can track it down and squash the bug.

tks again!

Thanks Rainbird, for responding to my bug post. I did submit an in-game bug report on all occurrences. I will post more on the forums next time.

How about this - help us, help you - and make SIEGES MORE FREQUENT for the Alpha test server, so we can help nail down the bugs?