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View Full Version : No nerf for saws or any other weapons



Buggman54
08-14-2013, 09:41 AM
The rumor is that saws are going to be nerfed soon. The popular reason being the pvpers think they are to strong. Bull. Never see saws used in pvp. Shotguns,infectors and detonators mostly. But whatever the reason the community does not want saws nerfed, or for that matter any weapons. Leave the game alone plz and stop listening to the few haters and criers. I have alota money tied into this game and would hate to quit because of unnesassary nerf changes. Please don't get nerfing stated. it will never end. Nerfing any weapons that players have taken time to develop and are used to will upset the community. and why would you want to do that. again please do not nerf saws or any other weapons. If you choose not to listen to me than at least give a good reason for the nerf. but plz avoid giving that reason by not nerfing anything. people take a lot of time ,care and money to get the weapons they want. and then your want to go in and change it. because why. its not fair to the community at all and will make all upset and mad. don't get it started. I am not alone in my feelings. plz think before you decide to make any changes. DONT DO IT. END THE MADNESS NOW BEFORE IT STARTS. THE GAME WORKS FINE WEAPON WISE. LEAVE IT ALONE.

Maitreakow
08-14-2013, 09:44 AM
I have never seen Trion state that it was due to PvP. In all honesty I think there is only a minority of players who believe that. The stated reason was that it is outperforming all other weapons and they are bringing it more in-line with those other weapons. Alpha Test Server states that its damage has been knocked down to 300 IIRC.

Buggman54
08-14-2013, 09:55 AM
if SAWs are going to be brought down to the level of all other weapons then lets just MAKE 1 WEAPON THE SAME. WONT THAT BE FUN. ALL WEAPONS SHOULD BE THE SAME. EQUILITY TO WEAONS HOOOORRY

TAG
08-14-2013, 09:56 AM
What about the people who paid 3 million scrip to get their "dream SAW"? Now the guns gonna be worth half that, makes you not want to buy anything of value because Trion wants to fix something that isn't broken. Everybody I talk to who plays the game likes the SAW the way it is. No I don't own a SAW but I do own VBI Assault Rifle, are they coming for that too?

Mowazzy
08-14-2013, 09:57 AM
lol @ Trion is nerfing SAWs due to PVP players. Spend 1 match in PVP with a SAW and you'll know that is not true.

Tyger
08-14-2013, 09:58 AM
The rumor is that saws are going to be nerfed soon. The popular reason being the pvpers think they are to strong. Bull. Never see saws used in pvp.

Do ya' play on Pc? 0.o

I use it exclusively for FY and SW.
:O

TYGER<-------killin' factless, assumption-based opinions since 82'

Reichlyn
08-14-2013, 10:01 AM
What about the people who paid 3 million scrip to get their "dream SAW"? Now the guns gonna be worth half that, makes you not want to buy anything of value because Trion wants to fix something that isn't broken. Everybody I talk to who plays the game likes the SAW the way it is. No I don't own a SAW but I do own VBI Assault Rifle, are they coming for that too?

It made the game easy for them. Tell them its time to start using real skill now instead of using an overpowered gun that makes you feel tough. And if you payed 3 million scrip for something, well, thats your own faukt for being silly enough to do that. Thr SAW nerf is fine

MaxSterling
08-14-2013, 10:04 AM
What about the people who paid 3 million scrip to get their "dream SAW"? Now the guns gonna be worth half that, makes you not want to buy anything of value because Trion wants to fix something that isn't broken. Everybody I talk to who plays the game likes the SAW the way it is. No I don't own a SAW but I do own VBI Assault Rifle, are they coming for that too?
That's their own idiocy for paying that much. Just like all the idiots charging 200k for mods... wait until the DLC drops on Tuesday and we start seeing more Tier 3 mods as specials.

Impatience and desperation cause jacked prices, not Trion's fault for everyone's loss.

divaldo
08-14-2013, 10:13 AM
They need to nerf the guns to bring them in line with the others,so yes nerf them.

Buggman54
08-14-2013, 10:24 AM
They need to nerf the guns to bring them in line with the others,so yes nerf them.

don't nerf anything or all will be nerfed soon

Maitreakow
08-14-2013, 10:45 AM
lol @ Trion is nerfing SAWs due to PVP players. Spend 1 match in PVP with a SAW and you'll know that is not true.

Ever run into a SAW while someone is using OC? OC not only increases the, already huge, damage numbers, it also completely negates the largest disadvantage it has...recoil. Even on PS3 this can make it into a killer when placed in the right hands, don't even want to imagine what it can do on PC...

WARDUKE
08-14-2013, 10:45 AM
forget nerfing them and add a random weapons jam like they actually have. :D

Maitreakow
08-14-2013, 10:49 AM
forget nerfing them and add a random weapons jam like they actually have. :D

From what I have heard the SAW is a heck of a lot better regarding jams than the venerable M-60 was. Not had the pleasure of shooting on personally unfortunately. :(

Although an ole Ma Deuce is just a BLAST!

WARDUKE
08-14-2013, 10:52 AM
I actually just added random weapons jam on the suggestion board. Doubt people will vote "YES" on it though haha. I think it would be an interesting dynamic to the game if there was an off chance that a weapon could jam mid clip.

Maitreakow
08-14-2013, 10:53 AM
Well I will vote a yes for it, BRB...

MaxSterling
08-14-2013, 10:55 AM
I actually just added random weapons jam on the suggestion board. Doubt people will vote "YES" on it though haha. I think it would be an interesting dynamic to the game if there was an off chance that a weapon could jam mid clip.
Sadly, I'd end up with more weapon jams than legendaries from lockboxes.

Tyger
08-14-2013, 11:04 AM
Ever run into a SAW while someone is using OC? OC not only increases the, already huge, damage numbers, it also completely negates the largest disadvantage it has...recoil. Even on PS3 this can make it into a killer when placed in the right hands, don't even want to imagine what it can do on PC...

See... This is probably where I kept having the disconnect on my end when I first heard the SAW was gettin' a dmg drop. I've only been running OC for the perk/building up weapon skill points. When I PvP I always use a limited cloak so I can approach a point w/o being completely rolled. I just figured OC with the SAW in PvP was like swatting flies with Hydrogen Bombs. Apparently not everyone displays the same lvl of restraint :p

If you put OC in the pile of "whynerf" then yea, I can totally see why it's being done. Just my luck to miss out on what all the kool kids are doing in PvP. v.v'

Mowazzy
08-14-2013, 11:10 AM
Ever run into a SAW while someone is using OC? OC not only increases the, already huge, damage numbers, it also completely negates the largest disadvantage it has...recoil. Even on PS3 this can make it into a killer when placed in the right hands, don't even want to imagine what it can do on PC...

As soon as I get hit with a SAW in PVP my Escape Artist kicks in, I cloak, run behind them and it's game over for that poor shmuck.

janzig
08-14-2013, 11:11 AM
Well, once I modded out my first SAW, it became my new favorite weapon. It is the B.F.G. in this game and, as a shooter, there should be one B.F.G. It fits my playstyle.

But it does out DPS other guns in non-crit damage for the most part. If that is a problem for Trion, they should have put SOME effort into really looking at the issue.

If anything, they should have re-visited the gun's recoil and bloom. The saw is SUPPOSED to deal more damage than most other guns- at the expense of recoil and accuracy. The great thing about the weapon system is its DIVERSITY. I have enjoyed switching to other weapons and discovering that all weapon types shine in specific situations, making playing ALL the guns fun. I think the original Devs got this one right.

If they put thought into it, they would have left the damage of the SAW where it was, and maybe significantly increased bloom and decreased accuracy. This would have retained the unique nature of the gun, but made overall, unskilled DPS more in line the other weapons through a lot of missing.

Sadly, they are taking the easy way out and just reducing base damage. Now we will have basically another AR, but with piss-poor accuracy.

Hope499
08-14-2013, 11:13 AM
must have over 100 hours of PvP if not more.

I SAW has killed me twice I think......

TAG
08-14-2013, 11:15 AM
must have over 100 hours of PvP if not more.

I SAW has killed me twice I think......

Agreed if somebody killed me in PVP with a SAW I would tip my hat to them.

Azimov
08-14-2013, 11:17 AM
forget nerfing them and add a random weapons jam like they actually have. :D

Now that would awesome! jams and misfires! And make those mobs have a chance to miss and jam too!

TAG
08-14-2013, 11:18 AM
It made the game easy for them. Tell them its time to start using real skill now instead of using an overpowered gun that makes you feel tough. And if you payed 3 million scrip for something, well, thats your own faukt for being silly enough to do that. Thr SAW nerf is fine

So you have the final judgement for real skill? Unless your name has "Honorable" in front of it lets keep that to yourself.

Albion
08-14-2013, 11:20 AM
People crying about the SAW nerf fall into two categories - 1. they wasted a lot of scrip on buying one (or many) or 2. they can't really use any other gun and have the same success, because it is so OP. I don't care much one way or the other, but if you think about it, a LMG like the SAW shouldn't be used like it is by so many people. It's not an assault rifle, its a weapon used for supressive fire with a big magazine and big recoil - more or less a support weapon. Like it or not, the nerf actually makes perfect sense. And yes, I play a lot of PvP and almost never get killed by a SAW.

TAG
08-14-2013, 11:21 AM
That's their own idiocy for paying that much. Just like all the idiots charging 200k for mods... wait until the DLC drops on Tuesday and we start seeing more Tier 3 mods as specials.

Impatience and desperation cause jacked prices, not Trion's fault for everyone's loss.

Since this is your first MMO ill explain that if you buy something that's considered one of the best in the game, you can't pay too much. Sorry to assume but with statements like that makes me believe this might be your first. PS I never mentioned anything about mods.

CraftyBasterd78
08-14-2013, 11:23 AM
I am in complete agreement with the nerf, at the very least it makes things more interesting.

TAG
08-14-2013, 11:23 AM
People crying about the SAW nerf fall into two categories - 1. they wasted a lot of scrip on buying one (or many) or 2. they can't really use any other gun and have the same success, because it is so OP. I don't care much one way or the other, but if you think about it, a LMG like the SAW shouldn't be used like it is by so many people. It's not an assault rifle, its a weapon used for supressive fire with a big magazine and big recoil - more or less a support weapon. Like it or not, the nerf actually makes perfect sense. And yes, I play a lot of PvP and almost never get killed by a SAW.


If the SAW was "overpowered" wouldn't everybody use it on PVP?

fang1192
08-14-2013, 11:27 AM
When I PvP, I get killed by the SAW about as often as i get killed by snipers. More than 50 hours and all PvP pursuits later, I can still count both of those kinds of deaths on one hand. It's really funny how delusional some PvE'ers get.

Albion
08-14-2013, 11:28 AM
If the SAW was "overpowered" wouldn't everybody use it on PVP?

Not so much OP in PvP, but it does tear things up in PvE like nothing else. I'm not the greatest player, but when I take a SAW into a co-op map, I rarely don't come in first. And if one of my friends is using it (and no one else is), he's coming in first. It got to the point where if we had any type of competition on co-op maps among friends, we would say no one could use a SAW to keep things fair. It just made things too easy.

MaxSterling
08-14-2013, 11:29 AM
Since this is your first MMO ill explain that if you buy something that's considered one of the best in the game, you can't pay too much. Sorry to assume but with statements like that makes me believe this might be your first. PS I never mentioned anything about mods.
Well since this isn't your first MMO, then you should be used to weapons being nerfed... and thus should never pay those kind of prices on anything.

Mods are just the next thing everyone will cry about... and can't wait to see all the whining threads about them when players lose 100,000s of scrip on them on Tuesday... and try to include those mod prices in their gun's supposed "value".

xDoMx RaZoR
08-14-2013, 11:31 AM
When I PvP, I get killed by the SAW about as often as i get killed by snipers. More than 50 hours and all PvP pursuits later, I can still count both of those kinds of deaths on one hand. It's really funny how delusional some PvE'ers get.

yea everyone is complaining about a weapon mainly used in pve. what everyone should be complaining about is the boomers and spanners and the displacement field glitch. come on people look at the real problem in pvp here...

Arisax
08-14-2013, 11:32 AM
SAWs arent getting nerfed because of PVP but because of PVE ,they are beasts. reached top ranks in arkfalls with em before and first places few times with that i havent been able to achieve with any other weapon,same against the volge SAWs eats volge in matter of secs. for PVP ppl tends to use more ONEshot pew pew kill weapons or those who gets you the easier,faster and cheap kills such as shotguns and detonators. as simple as that, no efford or skills needed ,thats why they barely use SAWs in pvp because it requires way more skills to use in PVP.
in other words,SAWs were OP in a fact for PVE. I always thought so. next step its to nerf vot fragger and big boomers for pvp,immunizers are crap already without the burst mod plus the even more incoming nerf in reload and fire rate speed .
ppl getting upset not because they are nerfing an OP weapon they know in a fact it is but because they paid millions for em

fang1192
08-14-2013, 11:35 AM
That's their own idiocy for paying that much. Just like all the idiots charging 200k for mods... wait until the DLC drops on Tuesday and we start seeing more Tier 3 mods as specials.


Are they really idiots if people are buying mods at 200K?

Mowazzy
08-14-2013, 11:35 AM
Just to jump back in regarding other MMO nerfs, this happens a lot. For those that spent stupid amounts on SAWs it happened really early in this game's life which sucks big time. Some veteran MMOers knew better and stayed the hell away from 1-2-3 million scrip SAWs because they could easily tell that the weapon was grossly over powered for PVE.

I do agree though that something else takes its place with the nerf. VBI ARs are already as much or more than SAWs were going for, but I would be surprised if they got nerfed b/c there is much more balance among the ARs then the LMGs.

Does suck for those that dropped the massive scrip, but learn from it.

Hope499
08-14-2013, 11:37 AM
I use blur and big boomers...

Use the same loadout and tell me they don't need skill....


Big boomers are just the most damn fun is all, you can set up traps, leave trails, stick ppl and run away to blow em up later, attack groups, etc...its just a good and fun weapon.


I don't really have too many probs with PvP atm....infectors don't kill me as much, in fact, only shotguns + cloak kill me....(looking at you DoM)


Everyone will have their opinion of what is "skill"

But guess what, skill = the end score, and whatever you do to achieve that, then congratz!

Infect it up, saw it up, spanner trap my ***, its ok! it makes it fun and different.

MaxSterling
08-14-2013, 11:37 AM
Are they really idiots if people are buying mods at 200K?They are if they're trying to include that rate on their gun "value"... as I stated in my previous post.

TAG
08-14-2013, 11:39 AM
Everybody who is wanting the SAW nerf, I can't wait to see your thread when they come for your weapon next.

Arisax
08-14-2013, 11:40 AM
Just to jump back in regarding other MMO nerfs, this happens a lot. For those that spent stupid amounts on SAWs it happened really early in this game's life which sucks big time. Some veteran MMOers knew better and stayed the hell away from 1-2-3 million scrip SAWs because they could easily tell that the weapon was grossly over powered for PVE.
Does suck for those that dropped the massive scrip, but learn from it.
this n_n. us who played MMORPGS knows better how this things work xD so upcoming nerf arent a strage move at all. this kind of changes comes for a good reason

Hope499
08-14-2013, 11:40 AM
Are they really idiots if people are buying mods at 200K?

when you have 15 million scrip, and your personal gun you just paid 3 mil for has a mod missing.....ya 200k aint nuttin

janzig
08-14-2013, 11:41 AM
People crying about the SAW nerf fall into two categories - 1. they wasted a lot of scrip on buying one (or many) or 2. they can't really use any other gun and have the same success, because it is so OP. I don't care much one way or the other, but if you think about it, a LMG like the SAW shouldn't be used like it is by so many people. It's not an assault rifle, its a weapon used for supressive fire with a big magazine and big recoil - more or less a support weapon. Like it or not, the nerf actually makes perfect sense. And yes, I play a lot of PvP and almost never get killed by a SAW.

Ummm, No.

1. Most players don't/ aren't bothered to buy weapons, myself included. If they had an auction house I would, but I'm too lazy otherwise, and I kind of like do the best with what I find/earn myself.

2. Really? You are saying people like the SAW because they can't play with other weapons? C'mon, you can solo an arkfall with just about any of the weapons in this game- (ok, maybe not with a disruptor. You'd could lose one-on-one with a single hellbug with that POS, lol)

But I agree it is a tad OP.... with the right MODS. My gripe is that they are normalizing the weapons, not fixing the system. A single SAW bullet really should hurt more than an AR round. Lowering damage is/was not the answer. They should have looked at other factors- recoil, bloom, fire rate, etc instead. IMO.

MaxSterling
08-14-2013, 11:42 AM
Everybody who is wanting the SAW nerf, I can't wait to see your thread when they come for your weapon next.

Why do you care? Thought you said you don't own a SAW. I know that you had at least 2-3 at various points, but must've sold them off or traded them for your AR collection, so why should it matter to you, personally?

Evolution
08-14-2013, 11:46 AM
The rumor is that saws are going to be nerfed soon. The popular reason being the pvpers think they are to strong. Bull. Never see saws used in pvp. Shotguns,infectors and detonators mostly. But whatever the reason the community does not want saws nerfed, or for that matter any weapons. Leave the game alone plz and stop listening to the few haters and criers. I have alota money tied into this game and would hate to quit because of unnesassary nerf changes. Please don't get nerfing stated. it will never end. Nerfing any weapons that players have taken time to develop and are used to will upset the community. and why would you want to do that. again please do not nerf saws or any other weapons. If you choose not to listen to me than at least give a good reason for the nerf. but plz avoid giving that reason by not nerfing anything. people take a lot of time ,care and money to get the weapons they want. and then your want to go in and change it. because why. its not fair to the community at all and will make all upset and mad. don't get it started. I am not alone in my feelings. plz think before you decide to make any changes. DONT DO IT. END THE MADNESS NOW BEFORE IT STARTS. THE GAME WORKS FINE WEAPON WISE. LEAVE IT ALONE.

It was announced July 9th in the Upcoming Balance Changes (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?105051-Upcoming-Balance-Changes) thread. Can't stop it now though, it's already set on the test server, and from how I understand it, whats currently on the test server is going to be whats in the DLC.

You need to understand, player input is typically not considered once "balancing" is deemed necessary. Especially with online games. It's obviously much easier for them to lower a weapons damage by 25% instead of adding some variation of a 25% power up to every enemy and other gun in the game. While that's totally :!MEGA-SUCK!:, it's like that in every online game. And each time I get involved in one, I hope its THE game I've been waiting for.

A game that doesn't believe in NeRfs'!

-YEA!

A game where the skills and damage only go up... never down!

-That's Right!

A game so intense, that by the time you reach the end your pinky finger is a nuclear bomb and everytime you touch someone with it they erupt in a MASSIVE explosion while Money and L00T rain down from the heavens like a shower made of gold‼..

:o & skitterlings...

-mmmmm...
ooooo... yeaaaaah...:o

Maitreakow
08-14-2013, 11:56 AM
Everybody who is wanting the SAW nerf, I can't wait to see your thread when they come for your weapon next.

Ahh, but you see I don't have a single weapon that I rely on... :cool:

Tyger
08-14-2013, 12:10 PM
Readin' an awful lotta' tough-guy talk about how they ain't nevah been beat by a SAW user in pvp. I'm gonna' guess most if not all of ya's play on consoles.

OR

I must be playing with a Pc population that never shows up here in the forum, cuz' that weapon is my primary and I know I've dusted quite a few players with my SAW.

Hope499
08-14-2013, 12:13 PM
Readin' an awful lotta' tough-guy talk about how they ain't nevah been beat by a SAW user in pvp. I'm gonna' guess most if not all of ya's play on consoles.

OR

I must be playing with a Pc population that never shows up here in the forum, cuz' that weapon is my primary and I know I've dusted quite a few players with my SAW.

Console user yea.


I like you how explained your SAW usage tho dude, it sounds like it would work 4 sure

fang1192
08-14-2013, 12:18 PM
Readin' an awful lotta' tough-guy talk about how they ain't nevah been beat by a SAW user in pvp. I'm gonna' guess most if not all of ya's play on consoles.

OR

I must be playing with a Pc population that never shows up here in the forum, cuz' that weapon is my primary and I know I've dusted quite a few players with my SAW.

You have a point. On consoles the SAW requires to much effort. I mean god forbid you aim in a shooter game right?

Tyger
08-14-2013, 12:19 PM
But Cooper yells at ya' to do it all the time :)

bigguy
08-14-2013, 12:22 PM
trion does not care 99% of the community doesnt want this and has been saying so for more than a month they dont care , and there are people who dedicate themselves to nerfing , a couple of days ago some jackas*s started a thread called wolfhound is the next saw saying he wanted the gun nerfed , WOULDNT IT BE FUN IF ALL THE GUNS DID THE SAME DAMAGE YEAH ALL THE GUNS SHOULD BE THE SAME HELL WHY NOT JUST HAVE A GAME WITH JUST ONE GUN NO CHOICES SAVE TIME NERFING

Maitreakow
08-14-2013, 12:24 PM
IIRC the thread you are referring to was a joke. Could you provide a link to the one you mentioned?

fang1192
08-14-2013, 12:27 PM
trion does not care 99% of the community doesnt want this and has been saying so for more than a month they dont care , and there are people who dedicate themselves to nerfing , a couple of days ago some jackas*s started a thread called wolfhound is the next saw saying he wanted the gun nerfed , WOULDNT IT BE FUN IF ALL THE GUNS DID THE SAME DAMAGE YEAH ALL THE GUNS SHOULD BE THE SAME HELL WHY NOT JUST HAVE A GAME WITH JUST ONE GUN NO CHOICES SAVE TIME NERFING

I guess I am in the 1% that wants the game balanced where every choice is workable if not effective. The people who dedicate themselves to solely nerfing are few and far between. That was one person, and it was probably a troll. I wouldnt know without a link to the original thread. Also, you are completely missing the point of balancing if you think it leads to all guns doing the same damage. Ideally, balancing gives every weapon a niche.

But hey, I doubt reason and logic will work on your rabid arguments.

idonthideiblaze
08-14-2013, 12:27 PM
Lol to all who bought there dream saw Sry bout ur luck suckas they were to overpriced any way that's y everyone's panicing ah I can't rip any body off on a saw anymore ahhhhhh... Got out of hand if u ask me I don't even care bring on the nerd...an yes I loved them too but I didn't stick anyone wit a oh how much u got lol

nitroz76
08-14-2013, 12:35 PM
I have never seen Trion state that it was due to PvP. In all honesty I think there is only a minority of players who believe that. The stated reason was that it is outperforming all other weapons and they are bringing it more in-line with those other weapons. Alpha Test Server states that its damage has been knocked down to 300 IIRC.

You see, you can't balance PvP when you have the EGO powers in use. You just can't.

fang1192
08-14-2013, 12:35 PM
But Cooper yells at ya' to do it all the time :)

And that is why he is always crawling towards me.


You see, you can't balance PvP when you have the EGO powers in use. You just can't.

You can if the EGO powers are balanced against each other. As in, each power is an effective choice.

Evolution
08-14-2013, 12:51 PM
trion does not care 99% of the community doesnt want this and has been saying so for more than a month they dont care , and there are people who dedicate themselves to nerfing , a couple of days ago some jackas*s started a thread called wolfhound is the next saw saying he wanted the gun nerfed , WOULDNT IT BE FUN IF ALL THE GUNS DID THE SAME DAMAGE YEAH ALL THE GUNS SHOULD BE THE SAME HELL WHY NOT JUST HAVE A GAME WITH JUST ONE GUN NO CHOICES SAVE TIME NERFING

LMAO!
I started that thread, and I did not ask for a nerf. I simply pointed out that it was going to be next, and was curious to see how other people would prefer it to happen. It's already more powerful then the SAW in almost every way. When the SAW nerf goes through, It will actually outclass 98% of the rest of the weapons. A handgun, that makes a rocket launcher look like a pop gun. You guy's act like the Wolfhound is some big secret, You don't need to talk about it, they're already well aware of the Wolfhound.

Please... why don't you check out this thread [Public Service Announcement: Wolfhounds (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?102288-Public-Service-Announcement-Wolfhounds)] You think the devs don't see the You Tube Vids? You think they're blind to the massive numbers on the servers? Contrary to popular belief, games don't nerf weapons because people ask for it. They do it because the numbers aren't matching their projections for how the weapon is supposed to preform

But please, continue to freak out, I'm sure it will accomplish something.

nitroz76
08-14-2013, 12:53 PM
And that is why he is always crawling towards me.



You can if the EGO powers are balanced against each other. As in, each power is an effective choice.

If I'm cloaked and put a **** in your face from point blank, OHKing you, how will you balance other EGO powers to combat the cloak when:

A: You have no clue where the enemy is
B: You have no clue when the enemy will strike
C: You have no clue from where the enemy will strike from
D: You are already dead before you can do anything because cloak allowed the enemy to OHK you from point blank without you knowing or being able to do anything about it


Take ego powers out.

Mowazzy
08-14-2013, 12:56 PM
Dude, spend some time with the Perk tree and you won't die so easily even when a cloaker direct hits you from behind with a sawed-off, fragger, etc.

A s0t
08-14-2013, 12:56 PM
If I'm cloaked and put a **** in your face from point blank, OHKing you, how will you balance other EGO powers to combat the cloak when:

A: You have no clue where the enemy is
B: You have no clue when the enemy will strike
C: You have no clue from where the enemy will strike from
D: You are already dead before you can do anything because cloak allowed the enemy to OHK you from point blank without you knowing or being able to do anything about it


Take ego powers out.
decoy has that nifty perk that uncloacks cloacked players

Mowazzy
08-14-2013, 12:58 PM
LMAO! A handgun, that make a rocket launcher look like a pop gun. You guy's act like the Wolfhound is some big secret, You don't need to talk about it, they're already well of the Wolfhound.

SHHHH! Leave the Wolfhounds out of this. The devs are watching lol

On that note, how would they nerf WHs? less CRIT? slower FR? less DMG?
If they go crit down then they need to change the description of the gun lol

PitBull76
08-14-2013, 01:05 PM
They need to nerf the guns to bring them in line with the others,so yes nerf them.

They need to do a one time adjustment to all weapons to bring them in line with their real life counterparts. SAWs are bad *** powerful LMGs in the real world and should remain that way in game. I don't really care either way but it can be annoying to find a weapon I enjoy, spend all the time, scrip, and resources to get the mod slots and mods that I like only to have it nerfed and screw up everything.

Conneri
08-14-2013, 01:12 PM
How will you balance other EGO powers to combat the cloak when:

A: You have no clue where the enemy is
B: You have no clue when the enemy will strike
C: You have no clue from where the enemy will strike from
D: You are already dead before you can do anything because cloak allowed the enemy to OHK you from point blank without you knowing or being able to do anything about it
If you have the defensive perks equipped, you'll find that OHK is a thing of the past. Add in Blur or Decoy (with uncloak) and you've got a fairly even trade. Sure the cloaked player gets the first hit, but it is currently very possible to counter that.

Tyger
08-14-2013, 01:13 PM
Meh...

I just turn up the ambient sound and hear the tell-tale sound of the shotty patrol b4 they roll up on me from behind. Well, sometimes. But it does work if you're willing to try new things.

Turantula
08-14-2013, 01:19 PM
From what I have heard the SAW is a heck of a lot better regarding jams than the venerable M-60 was. Not had the pleasure of shooting on personally unfortunately. :(

Although an ole Ma Deuce is just a BLAST!

Yup the 60 was notorious for jams back in the day. Only time a 249 or 240B ever jammed on me was during training exercises, and usually because the blank firing adapter would rattle loose. Today's saws are much better in combat fortunately :)

Turantula
08-14-2013, 01:26 PM
They need to do a one time adjustment to all weapons to bring them in line with their real life counterparts. SAWs are bad *** powerful LMGs in the real world and should remain that way in game. I don't really care either way but it can be annoying to find a weapon I enjoy, spend all the time, scrip, and resources to get the mod slots and mods that I like only to have it nerfed and screw up everything.

Lol adding realism to this type of game is plain silly, the only mechanic needed for change with the saw is to increase it's spread while ads. As you said it's powerful for damn sure, but have you tried to shoulder fire a 30lb gun with heavy recoil? Yeah lets make it that real and watch no one even look at a saw and prices drop to a couple thousand scrip lol.

JxSiN
08-14-2013, 01:31 PM
They need to do a one time adjustment to all weapons to bring them in line with their real life counterparts. SAWs are bad *** powerful LMGs in the real world and should remain that way in game. I don't really care either way but it can be annoying to find a weapon I enjoy, spend all the time, scrip, and resources to get the mod slots and mods that I like only to have it nerfed and screw up everything.

Um, no they aren't. A SAW is a fire suppression weapon. The M249 SAW is what I am assuming the saw in the game is based on. It's a heavy freaking gun that recoils too much. You cannot shoot that weapon without a mount or tripod. Also, it uses NATO 5.56 ammunition. The same ammo used in m16s and m4s. Those are small rounds. The AK47 and the M240B uses 7.62 ammo which is a larger round with more penetrating power. So please tell me how the real world SAW is so powerful. Like I said, it's purpose is for suppression, not destruction. Trust me, I'm very familiar with the SAW as well as other US Army weapons.

Valaska
08-14-2013, 01:36 PM
if SAWs are going to be brought down to the level of all other weapons then lets just MAKE 1 WEAPON THE SAME. WONT THAT BE FUN. ALL WEAPONS SHOULD BE THE SAME. EQUILITY TO WEAONS HOOOORRY

Because the SAW made almost all other weapons pointless in PVE, and even rendered most guns in PVP useless compared to a good SAW fully upgraded. SMG's might be the staple as well as Shotguns, but SAW's could kill both faster and at further range than an SMG.


Trust me, I'm very familiar with the SAW as well as other US Army weapons.

SAW's are effective to almost double the range of most AR's, and anyone can fire one whilst prone, kneeling, and if you lean into her you can fire it while standing but it not only hurts like **** when you stop firing you can loose your balance and fall forward possibly shooting yourself in the head or leg depending on how the SAW falls.

Their accuracy is legendary, but you would not be moving and firing them as you can in Defiance... Insanity.

Olaf
08-14-2013, 01:36 PM
yea everyone is complaining about a weapon mainly used in pve. what everyone should be complaining about is the boomers and spanners and the displacement field glitch. come on people look at the real problem in pvp here...

hardly a glitch, more incompetent coding again on trions behalf.

A s0t
08-14-2013, 01:39 PM
Um, no they aren't. A SAW is a fire suppression weapon. The M249 SAW is what I am assuming the saw in the game is based on. It's a heavy freaking gun that recoils too much. You cannot shoot that weapon without a mount or tripod. Also, it uses NATO 5.56 ammunition. The same ammo used in m16s and m4s. Those are small rounds. The AK47 and the M240B uses 7.62 ammo which is a larger round with more penetrating power. So please tell me how the real world SAW is so powerful. Like I said, it's purpose is for suppression, not destruction. Trust me, I'm very familiar with the SAW as well as other US Army weapons.

your over thinking , as this is a video game. and didn't the sons of guns do a shoulder mounted saw

JxSiN
08-14-2013, 01:43 PM
your over thinking , as this is a video game. and didn't the sons of guns do a shoulder mounted saw

Lol I was referring to the post that the guy said they were powerful in the real world. :)

fang1192
08-14-2013, 02:03 PM
If I'm cloaked and put a **** in your face from point blank, OHKing you, how will you balance other EGO powers to combat the cloak when:

A: You have no clue where the enemy is
B: You have no clue when the enemy will strike
C: You have no clue from where the enemy will strike from
D: You are already dead before you can do anything because cloak allowed the enemy to OHK you from point blank without you knowing or being able to do anything about it


Take ego powers out.

Or they could make it so you look similar to DM Sniper while cloaked instead of 100% invisible.

hagndaz
08-14-2013, 02:24 PM
It made the game easy for them. Tell them its time to start using real skill now instead of using an overpowered gun that makes you feel tough.

based on who's definition of skill? should we all use wolfhounds and snipers? there is already no variation in weapons with differnt rarities, but i guess all weapons should do the same damage. the long range accuracy penalty for machine guns more than compensates for its high damage. i tell you what, lets go ahead and bring down their damage, but in return all other guns get long range accuracy penalties. that way its more balanced.

Zippy McPinhead
08-14-2013, 02:25 PM
please please please please no new nerfs please

hagndaz
08-14-2013, 02:27 PM
Or they could make it so you look similar to DM Sniper while cloaked instead of 100% invisible.

i must be the only person who sees cloaked players like that. on my end they all look camouflaged like the alien in predator. this is on xbox, and not some fancy high end pc.

A s0t
08-14-2013, 02:30 PM
i must be the only person who sees cloaked players like that. on my end they all look camouflaged like the predator in predator. this is on xbox, and not some fancy high end pc.fixed it for you as aliens are always visible. predators can cloak

hagndaz
08-14-2013, 02:34 PM
fixed it for you as aliens are always visible. predators can cloak

just to be a nerd, the "aliens" from the movies are xenomorphs, "predators" are some word with a bunch of consonants and one vowel that is escaping me right now

edit, i had it backwards, they are yautja or hish depending on which comic youre reading

A s0t
08-14-2013, 02:35 PM
just to be a nerd, the "aliens" from the movies are xenomorphs, "predators" are some word with a bunch of consonants and one vowel that is escaping me right now
i went to public school i cant spell xenomorphs
didn't gary buesy call the predator some weird thing in predator 2

Dave Blackwell
08-14-2013, 02:40 PM
To be completely honest, it looks like 'nerfing' the saw is somewhat justified now that the bigger picture is clearer as opposed to when everyone was speculating (myself included). Now I'm not talking in the sense of it being 'overpowered', what I am referring to is the new weapons that will be added with the DLC. From what I've saw the damage that some of those new weapons do are up and down the spectrum in regards to damage; the volge LMG coming in with 909 as opposed to the SAW which will be lowered to 300 when the first batch of DLC goes live.

I'm also well aware of how Trion can flip the switch multiple times when it comes to weapons, so I am cautiously holding on to hope that the new weapons have been tested enough to be accepted as is and not having any tweaks done to them once public. One can hope - right?

hagndaz
08-14-2013, 02:41 PM
i went to public school i cant spell xenomorphs
didn't gary buesy call the predator some weird thing in predator 2

bussey probably called them spirit animals or something nutty. i think predators 2 was before his motorcycle accident though.

ChaosOneX
08-14-2013, 02:53 PM
trion does not care 99% of the community doesnt want this and has been saying so for more than a month they dont care , and there are people who dedicate themselves to nerfing , a couple of days ago some jackas*s started a thread called wolfhound is the next saw saying he wanted the gun nerfed , WOULDNT IT BE FUN IF ALL THE GUNS DID THE SAME DAMAGE YEAH ALL THE GUNS SHOULD BE THE SAME HELL WHY NOT JUST HAVE A GAME WITH JUST ONE GUN NO CHOICES SAVE TIME NERFING

I don't think 99% percent of the people are against the saw tuning.

I think the people against it wish 99% of the people were, but...

JxSiN
08-14-2013, 03:04 PM
I don't think 99% percent of the people are against the saw tuning.

I think the people against it wish 99% of the people were, but...

Yeah I would say its more of a 50/50 split

Mercy Killing
08-14-2013, 03:47 PM
They need to nerf the guns to bring them in line with the others,so yes nerf them.

Never mind the fact that in actual, real world combat, a light machine gun is about the best weapon a soldier can carry in terms of laying out damage. With this nerf, assault rifles, the Dane Cook of guns, can outperform LMG's.

Edit: This is the weapon we're discussing about being nerfed.

dCoFvH8zQYI

Mowazzy
08-14-2013, 03:53 PM
Why are we discussing real world here. Wtf can you find a bug gun in real life. That arguement holds no water.

JxSiN
08-14-2013, 04:05 PM
Why are we discussing real world here. Wtf can you find a bug gun in real life. That arguement holds no water.

This is true. I just like correcting people when they come on here stating that LMGs are overpowered in real life. If that were true, every grunt would be walking around with an M249

dude26212
08-14-2013, 04:11 PM
since ive used up my logic in other post on this topic i will simply state my opinon

YAY NERF!!! kick the crutch out from under those who rely on it!

anyways its not like anyone is really gona stop useing saws just means when given the option of another gun or the saw you may have to actually consider which one fits your needs. currently the saw is like a mix of duct tape and wd40, it fixes all problems.

A s0t
08-14-2013, 04:15 PM
This is true. I just like correcting people when they come on here stating that LMGs are overpowered in real life. If that were true, every grunt would be walking around with an M249go back to the cat avatar pic

JxSiN
08-14-2013, 04:18 PM
go back to the cat avatar pic

Haha, wow, I didn't think my old avatar was that well received :)

Rakshasa
08-14-2013, 04:26 PM
Haha, wow, I didn't think my old avatar was that well received :)

It was cute. And cute goes a long way. Besides, cats ftw.

To the OP and others like-minded... for your own good, do NOT start using the charge weapons once the DLC goes live! Don't do it! Assuming they go live as they are now, there are a couple of them that are so powerful I think they'll have to be adjusted down later on. Expect this, and don't get dependent on them as they are now, you'll only regret it later. :p

Billy Guile
08-14-2013, 04:29 PM
i nodded my head until OP said "i have a lot of money tied into this game"

so what you're saying is....


actually, please elaborate on that.

JxSiN
08-14-2013, 04:38 PM
<<< Back by popular demand

A s0t
08-14-2013, 04:52 PM
<<< Back by popular demand
don't do that again

@Rakshasa what they don't come pre-nerfed

Freelancer911
08-14-2013, 04:59 PM
i think no nerf on any weapon period......

hagndaz
08-14-2013, 04:59 PM
don't do that again

@Rakshasa what they don't come pre-nerfed

if they pre-nerfed the weapons, what would we have to scream about being too powerful, minute one after the dlc goes live.

A s0t
08-14-2013, 05:01 PM
if they pre-nerfed the weapons, what would we have to scream about being too powerful, minute one after the dlc goes live.the lack of real dlc

hagndaz
08-14-2013, 06:00 PM
the lack of real dlc

zing! /10char

Rakshasa
08-14-2013, 07:54 PM
<<< Back by popular demand

:cool:


don't do that again

@Rakshasa what they don't come pre-nerfed

LOL, they're all over the place. A couple have thus far managed to competely hide away their usefulness from me, in my limited time of testing. That's probably my fault, not theirs. Probably.

A couple of others, I'd bet money they won't stay the way they are for long. One in particular is nuts once you get used to how it works. It's standing not just head and shoulders above everything else, it's standing up on a cliff with the sunset behind it, the wind blowing in its hair, while its own theme music plays.

Reichlyn
08-15-2013, 08:06 PM
So you have the final judgement for real skill? Unless your name has "Honorable" in front of it lets keep that to yourself.

Nope, not the final judgement, just know bad gamers when I see them. If you whine about the SAW nerf, you are only whining because you relied on it so much, lack of skill? Most likely.

Reichlyn
08-15-2013, 08:10 PM
Everybody who is wanting the SAW nerf, I can't wait to see your thread when they come for your weapon next.

Being that I use ALL weapons, let them come after any weapon. Doesnt bother me a bit. Ill kill Volge with a shotgun, infector OR any other weapon you can think of. I dont need a SAW to feel tough.

Billy Guile
08-15-2013, 08:15 PM
Being that I use ALL weapons, let them come after any weapon. Doesnt bother me a bit. Ill kill Volge with a shotgun, infector OR any other weapon you can think of. I dont need a SAW to feel tough.

no but really

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/112813iD0A218E1F4E3E220/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1

Bud44
08-16-2013, 01:24 AM
My two cents. I don't use saws very much. I like the variety of weapons. I have played very little PvP, so far. What I don't understand is, why don't developers work out the balance before release? Certainly they play tested it and knew what it was capable of. Stick to your decisions. I have never bought a saw, I am fairly new, I have not bought a weapon yet. (Other than vendors) My issue with this kind of thing, in any game is, people only have so much time to play. Say what you want about people relying on a weapon, it's their choice. The large amounts of money people have paid for a saw represents a lot of their time. People on this board seem to take for granted that everybody has millions of scrip or something. I don't even have 250,000 yet. If I spent it all on a weapon and then they nerfed it, I would be upset as well. Like I said, this represents a lot of my time. Also real variety means some will work better than others and especially in PvE, why would anybody care who is using what weapon? Do you really get that upset if a saw user is higher than you at an arkfall? Sounds pretty weak to me. As far as the skill argument goes. I would love to see a MP mode with no Ego powers and furthermore no gimmick guns like bugs and dets. That's just me. I miss the old days when it was just you and your gun versus the other guy and his gun. That was skill in my opinion. Not some ridiculous AOE weapon or combination of perks etc. For that matter, why can people jump around like cracked out bunnies for a whole match? Ridiculous. How about some cool down? To each their own, but like others have said, don't cry when they come after your preferred weapon or loadout.
One last thought, as previously stated in this thread, balancing recoil, accuracy, and I would say, mobility would make better sense. That should probably have been done pre-release.

JxSiN
08-16-2013, 01:55 AM
My two cents. I don't use saws very much. I like the variety of weapons. I have played very little PvP, so far. What I don't understand is, why don't developers work out the balance before release? Certainly they play tested it and knew what it was capable of. Stick to your decisions. I have never bought a saw, I am fairly new, I have not bought a weapon yet. (Other than vendors) My issue with this kind of thing, in any game is, people only have so much time to play. Say what you want about people relying on a weapon, it's their choice. The large amounts of money people have paid for a saw represents a lot of their time. People on this board seem to take for granted that everybody has millions of scrip or something. I don't even have 250,000 yet. If I spent it all on a weapon and then they nerfed it, I would be upset as well. Like I said, this represents a lot of my time. Also real variety means some will work better than others and especially in PvE, why would anybody care who is using what weapon? Do you really get that upset if a saw user is higher than you at an arkfall? Sounds pretty weak to me. As far as the skill argument goes. I would love to see a MP mode with no Ego powers and furthermore no gimmick guns like bugs and dets. That's just me. I miss the old days when it was just you and your gun versus the other guy and his gun. That was skill in my opinion. Not some ridiculous AOE weapon or combination of perks etc. For that matter, why can people jump around like cracked out bunnies for a whole match? Ridiculous. How about some cool down? To each their own, but like others have said, don't cry when they come after your preferred weapon or loadout.
One last thought, as previously stated in this thread, balancing recoil, accuracy, and I would say, mobility would make better sense. That should probably have been done pre-release.

That was probably the best response I have read on this thread

doubleshot27
08-16-2013, 06:45 AM
stop telling people about the nerf im trying to sell my saw lol

ItISLupus
08-16-2013, 08:36 AM
don't nerf anything or all will be nerfed soon

Regular forum visitor logic.

Item I like gets changed.
OH NO!!! My hard earned money and time building around this one item is all for naught
DON'T NERF IT! Other forum goers don't you realize, if they nerf this, where will it end!!!

Maitreakow
08-16-2013, 08:55 AM
Or they could make it so you look similar to DM Sniper while cloaked instead of 100% invisible.

I put in a suggestion saying exactly that, care to guess how the voting is going?

Maitreakow
08-16-2013, 08:59 AM
<<< Back by popular demand

Yes! Been missing the li'l guy.

A s0t
08-16-2013, 10:43 AM
Why are we discussing real world here. Wtf can you find a bug gun in real life. That arguement holds no water.yeah grab/make a potato gun, make a shell fill with what ever bugs you want and fire

drackiller
08-16-2013, 11:39 AM
stop telling people about the nerf im trying to sell my saw lol

I know that you are jocking , but i see lots of people ingame trying to sell, and lots of people trying to buy out of ignorance.

Let me just say this, the SAW will still be a great weapon after the nerf, not as good as it is now, but good anyway.
I wont be selling mine, at least not the ones that i like, and i even like one that is white.

doubleshot27
08-16-2013, 11:49 AM
I know that you are jocking , but i see lots of people ingame trying to sell, and lots of people trying to buy out of ignorance.

Let me just say this, the SAW will still be a great weapon after the nerf, not as good as it is now, but good anyway.
I wont be selling mine, at least not the ones that i like, and i even like one that is white.

its just funny to me how when everyones trying to get rid of them the start a thread on how it wont be nerfed

drackiller
08-16-2013, 12:28 PM
its just funny to me how when everyones trying to get rid of them the start a thread on how it wont be nerfed
Who is saying that it wont be nerfed?
I`m only saying that it wont be as bad as anyone thinks.
It will still be an useful weapon.
Donīt try to change my words.

freakster28
08-16-2013, 12:45 PM
when you have 15 million scrip, and your personal gun you just paid 3 mil for has a mod missing.....ya 200k aint nuttin

If you got that much money you farm sutro way too much. Prices are so ridiculous cuz all you guys just farm farm farm and say well there's nothing else to do with scrip go look at other trade forums no1' s economy is as messed up as Xbox cuz all the greed.

Just saying I used to play ps3 and whole playerbase is better no cheating and what not or stuff like this and way more fun (can't wait to go back

fang1192
08-16-2013, 04:37 PM
I put in a suggestion saying exactly that, care to guess how the voting is going?

No. Because I want to keep my naive faith in human common sense and rationality.


If you got that much money you farm sutro way too much. Prices are so ridiculous cuz all you guys just farm farm farm and say well there's nothing else to do with scrip go look at other trade forums no1' s economy is as messed up as Xbox cuz all the greed.

Just saying I used to play ps3 and whole playerbase is better no cheating and what not or stuff like this and way more fun (can't wait to go back

Get over it. At least it was a guaranteed way to find a specific weapon or mod and synergy you were looking instead of grinding a ridiculous amount of keycodes. Also, just wait till the 20th.

USonuMabeaCh
08-16-2013, 04:54 PM
I use the SAW in PvP, and fairly often I am the number 1 killer when I use it. I personally think it is the best weapon in the game if used properly (IE dont hold down the trigger for more than 3 seconds at MOST). I love the gun, and will admit it's not as cheese as SMGs, Shotguns, and Infectors are, but it is easy to dominate with in the right hands.

It looks like it's losing about 100 damage, I think it will still be viable. I think the biggest problem is not the SAW, but the fact that many of the other LMGs suck pretty bad. My saw is lvl 389, its a blue, and it has syphon, sure I added all the mod slots and gave it all blues, but I'm almost 2500 ego level, and it's still my primary weapon. I maxed out my LMG skill at around 1800 ego level, and have been using it sparingly since so I can level my other skills for weapons I use (Detonators, ARs, SMGs, Sniper Rifles), the highest of which is 14 still at 2500 ego level.

Using the SAW, I've been getting 1st place on damage/kills repeatedly in arkfalls and major arkfalls, and even COOP maps, since I had the gun. It is an extremely useful weapon, and is less situational than my next favorite, the Ground Pounder (which is also amazing, but really doesn't need to be touched since it is so situational).

However, I honestly feel that even though it is the most useful weapon, the SAW shouldn't be nerfed, the other guns need some buffing. The recoil on the Rockers needs to be seriously reduced, the 15% from the lvl 3 stock is not enough, it's bloom needs to be reduced, and the other LMGs need a serious damage buff.

The Vot Tachmag Pulser is another weapon that is extremely powerful in medium to close range distance. The one I have has -80 total accuracy, and it's a green with syphon, and it is a laser beam with a very manageable amount of muzzle climb.

Another example: I'm still using the EMC-22 that I got from the episode side quests with Nolan, I think it is that nice of a rifle, especially with it's fast reload.

The SAW has one of the longest reloads, the fastest bloom spread rates, and the widest blooms, it also has a very low fire rate comparatively, I figured it's damage was the compensation for it, if one just holds the trigger down, they will do very poorly with this gun, you have to do controlled bursts and allow time for the bloom to reset to be effective with this weapon, but again, if you do, it shines.

I feel it doesn't NEED a nerf. That said, I reiterate that I don't believe the 100 damage nerf will hurt the usefulness that badly.

RealHoosier07
08-16-2013, 05:18 PM
Why are people *****ing about the prices?? 10,000 scrip is nothing for a blue mod. I played last night for 1 and half hours. I didn't even try to get tons of scrip. I did the Bolinas Smeltery instance solo, Soleptor Excavation Co-op, and the last leg of a major arkfall, and one Volge emergency solo. It took a total of 1.5 hours and I gained 12,000 scrip in that time. I sold all of the weapons I picked up that I didn't want for scrip, which was all of them. I would be able to buy a blue mod for 10,000 in just 1.5 hours of gameplay. Thats not hard people. It's easy and I think you SHOULD have to put time into the game to get things you want. Everyone wants things for free, or really easily. Thats whats wrong with today's younger generation gamers.....they want everything easy and handed to them. To spend an hour and a half for a blue mod is nothing. It's easily done, and even easier to do on a bonus loot weekend. The prices are just where they need to be after the DLC. It shouldn't be easy and cheap to buy the mods you want. The cheap part should be opening mod slots, which is very cheap after DLC drops. Trion finally did something right with this patch coming up.

The nano nerf with the 1.5 second cooldown is perfect. The nano's were triggering entirely too much on some weapons. To the point that you could stand in front of a Volge Trooper and blast him with your AR with syphon and just match hits with him until you kill him. I've actually had a syphon triggering on a SAW every 4 or 5 bullets. It was ridiculous and made enemies way too easy. Nano cooldown nerf is a good thing. Harder difficulty is needed and this helps that a bit.

The faction vendor changes are great. Now there is a reason to buy faction vendor weapons. Good job Trion!

The Sieges will be epic and I can't wait to do some sieges with 3WT :)

Ssdmiddleman
08-16-2013, 06:29 PM
In all honesty the SAW is ridiculously overpowered. It outclasses every other weapon in the game and it's the only one I currently use because it's just unbeatable. I feel like it does need a nerf.