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jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 02:38 PM
I have no idea if Rift players are playing Defiance, I heard rumors that Rift players hate Defiance. Did any of the people here buy or try Defiance because you played Rift and thought Defiance would be just as good? Do you think that the new console generation or games like Destiny, Elder Scrolls online or even Titan Fall will cause Defiance to be left in the dust? Is the current closures of many Trion Worlds Divisions a sign of the end? If it is do you think Defiance's less than spectacular showing is to blame?

August Barkley
08-16-2013, 02:45 PM
For some reason, it's very similar to the provocation ...

Reichlyn
08-16-2013, 02:48 PM
I have no idea if Rift players are playing Defiance, I heard rumors that Rift players hate Defiance. Did any of the people here buy or try Defiance because you played Rift and thought Defiance would be just as good? Do you think that the new console generation or games like Destiny, Elder Scrolls online or even Titan Fall will cause Defiance to be left in the dust? Is the current closures of many Trion Worlds Divisions a sign of the end? If it is do you think Defiance's less than spectacular showing is to blame?

required great focus, strategy and working together unlike any other MMO I had seen before. That said, their class system was the downfall of that game. And yes, I say downfall. Just because its still going and makes money doesnt mean it was a success. I know alot of people that left Rift and their biggest reasoning was the multi-class system. It was a joke.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 02:51 PM
So do you believe that this is the beginning of the end for Trion? Or do you think they can get passed this and improve?

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 03:00 PM
I know it makes sense, but i believe until they did the Re run with all this seasons episode missions, deleting episode missions after a week after the episode aired was just stupid, bad business sense. Stay with me, lets say some person didn't buy the game until after the tv show aired. They may not get it because they know that content from the game had been removed. Am I right, or just crazy? ha

WARDUKE
08-16-2013, 03:10 PM
So do you believe that this is the beginning of the end for Trion? Or do you think they can get passed this and improve?

Pretty sure they will keep on carrying on. So long as there is enough funds coming in to keep something in development, they will be ok.

Cut the fat, keep the lean and move forward.

SymbolicGamer
08-16-2013, 03:59 PM
California.

Missouri is also an acceptable answer.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 04:03 PM
Pretty sure they will keep on carrying on. So long as there is enough funds coming in to keep something in development, they will be ok.

Cut the fat, keep the lean and move forward.
But do you think they can continue when these new mmos and next gen games come out? This has been my first MMO, is whats happening with Defiance typical when it comes to MMOs?

Synther
08-16-2013, 04:35 PM
I have no idea if Rift players are playing Defiance, I heard rumors that Rift players hate Defiance. Did any of the people here buy or try Defiance because you played Rift and thought Defiance would be just as good? Do you think that the new console generation or games like Destiny, Elder Scrolls online or even Titan Fall will cause Defiance to be left in the dust? Is the current closures of many Trion Worlds Divisions a sign of the end? If it is do you think Defiance's less than spectacular showing is to blame?

I fail to see how it matters what Rift players think about Defiance. It, in no way, changes the state of either game if one community loathes the other. So who cares?

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 04:40 PM
I fail to see how it matters what Rift players think about Defiance. It, in no way, changes the state of either game if one community loathes the other. So who cares?
I was just wondering if anyone who liked Rift bought Defiance because they liked Rift and Trion

Sanguinesun
08-16-2013, 04:52 PM
With Elrar being removed as the CM for Rift and the community team being down to 3 people spread between defiance rift et al, rift angst of the situation has validity since they will not be getting the same level of sole community interaction that they used to with Elrar. It does, then in fallout build more resentment by more dedicated Rift fans that they are now subject to the more spread out model being imposed. For them(unlike us really) they are going to feel they've lost a strong resource and advocate.

dahanese
08-16-2013, 05:22 PM
With Elrar being removed as the CM for Rift and the community team being down to 3 people spread between defiance rift et al, rift angst of the situation has validity since they will not be getting the same level of sole community interaction that they used to with Elrar. It does, then in fallout build more resentment by more dedicated Rift fans that they are now subject to the more spread out model being imposed. For them(unlike us really) they are going to feel they've lost a strong resource and advocate.

I hope we bridge that gap on both fronts.

The games are very different but also similar in so many ways. And hell, I used to talk to Civ, Mafia II, and BioShock fans basically in the same breath.

Arsenic_Touch
08-16-2013, 05:24 PM
For them(unlike us really) they are going to feel they've lost a strong resource and advocate.

Most of them need to simmer down, they had it easy compared to us defiance players, haha.

Sanguinesun
08-16-2013, 05:42 PM
Most of them need to simmer down, they had it easy compared to us defiance players, haha.

To be fair, they've had a longer more in depth community that ours and certainly with more relative stability. This rightfully feels like a significant loss to em and were I invested in said community more than the very short stints of play there, I'd probably feel as many of them do. There is no getting around the meaning of this all for that community/game(and thus this one as well).

But what worries me more is that this seems like its still the beginning/tip of the iceburg. I think the next coming weeks are going to be about a lot more dismaying announcements and changes just to keep Trion afloat.

Krauser
08-16-2013, 05:55 PM
California.

Missouri is also an acceptable answer.

Pierre, South Dakota!

Sanguinesun
08-16-2013, 05:56 PM
I hope we bridge that gap on both fronts.

The games are very different but also similar in so many ways. And hell, I used to talk to Civ, Mafia II, and BioShock fans basically in the same breath.


I can understand your confidence in being able to essentially be the primary community manager for all Trion projects as well as your role as director of the community team in itself. But I dont think you're also expecting everyone to believe that the same level of depth of each community can be attained by you primarily and greg and deb secondarily as was previously maintained with the likes of Elrar on Rift. Im sure you can juggle spokeperson'ing for all to a certain level; but I think it is important to recognize that these different communities recognize that a single dedicated community manager to a game is vastly different in resources to that of someone spread across many.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 05:57 PM
To be fair, they've had a longer more in depth community that ours and certainly with more relative stability. This rightfully feels like a significant loss to em and were I invested in said community more than the very short stints of play there, I'd probably feel as many of them do. There is no getting around the meaning of this all for that community/game(and thus this one as well).

But what worries me more is that this seems like its still the beginning/tip of the iceburg. I think the next coming weeks are going to be about a lot more dismaying announcements and changes just to keep Trion afloat.
I hope they can get themselves back afloat. We all know what happened to THQ, they were trying to stay afloat and they failed, even though near the end they had a bunch of successful games. It was just too little too late.

Sanguinesun
08-16-2013, 06:12 PM
I hope they can get themselves back afloat. We all know what happened to THQ, they were trying to stay afloat and they failed, even though near the end they had a bunch of successful games. It was just too little too late.

Its pretty obvious they're looking at a certain level of sustainable revenue streams for the near future and trying to trim down the company to be well within acceptable variables of such parameters.

1. They're culling to a 2 game company with the third(AA) being less concern due to the parent company of evidently(per Scott's comments today) giving them considerable leeway with release.

2. They're tightening up their belts with staff and other resources and doing so to a more centralized network. Scott's mentioning he's going to Austin next week I can only imagine doesnt bode well for that studio though we'll see. They as has been mentioned are also cutting back on marketing and advertising(ie no gaming cons for the foreseeable future etc).

3. They're going to work on extending, building, and implementing more revenue streams with their existing games and contractual obligations and in a manner they hope will increase profits and give them the savings with which to more conservatively expand from there. (This reminds me of the expansion/contract/conservative expansion of Krispie Kreme in the 90s for example). Alternatively though, they may rebuild to then sell though I dont think they're going to go the Cryptic studio's buy build sell route. One can never rule anything out.

4. They're hope as well that partially as a by product of all that in conjunction with other efforts that they can rebuild eventually the confidence in their products that they relaxingly enjoyed in their earlier success time frames. But this is probably the most critical area that I personally think they're increasingly overlooking; because it is the most vicious of circles: loss of confidence hurts revenue which in turn removes resources which in turn promotes further loss of confidence and on and on.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 06:21 PM
4. They're hope as well that partially as a by product of all that in conjunction with other efforts that they can rebuild eventually the confidence in their products that they relaxingly enjoyed in their earlier success time frames. But this is probably the most critical area that I personally think they're increasingly overlooking; because it is the most vicious of circles: loss of confidence hurts revenue which in turn removes resources which in turn promotes further loss of confidence and on and on.
So you basically the year leading to the next season of Defiance are crucial. There isn't going to be any content related to the show which used to bring back the casual gamer to Defiance, The on going Nerfs to weapons and other things rubbing players the wrong way, the DLC description not being exactly as expected. After Trion gets there houses in order they should really start filling up that Dev Tracker with some real talk to the players who support Trion Worlds and Defiance, right?

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 06:36 PM
required great focus, strategy and working together unlike any other MMO I had seen before. That said, their class system was the downfall of that game. And yes, I say downfall. Just because its still going and makes money doesnt mean it was a success. I know alot of people that left Rift and their biggest reasoning was the multi-class system. It was a joke.

The class system is getting worse with Rift 3.0 (the place holder name for their next expansion), where you will have Mage Tank, Rogue Healer, and other new souls that are just, in reality, overkill. The wife and I had a good time in Rift, but we were just discussing today that it is likely time to give up the ghost on it.

Anyway, I tried Defiance (the game, love the show) because I knew Trion Worlds from Rift. Fool me once, as they say. I'll be careful of future Trion Worlds games.

But to answer the OP, I belong to a huge guild in Rift. I'd asked several times since April if anyone else played Defiance. I've yet to find another guildie who does. At first, it was a no because Defiance was yet another Shooter, and they had no confidence that a Shooter would do a television show justice under the transmedia model they were trying to advertise (in hind sight, those guildies were definitely smarter than I was on that one). By about late May, it became a no because they'd already heard enough about how Fubared the game was.

Keep in mind, my guild is in no way indicative of the Rift population as a whole, but I can only speak from those I know in game.

Then Rift went F2P, 3 months after they said in an interview that there were no such plans, and then after F2P went live said that it had been in the works for almost a year. Does that style of PR sound familiar, Defiance players? Which really pissed off some Rift vets, as well. I wouldn't bet on them filtering over to this game, now, even if they love the show from Syfy.

It's almost as though Trion Worlds went to the SOE School of Public Relations and Marketing. :rolleyes:



Pretty sure they will keep on carrying on. So long as there is enough funds coming in to keep something in development, they will be ok.

Cut the fat, keep the lean and move forward.

Trion will keep going, at least in one form or another. They have a ton of heavy investors, including Comcast, Time Warner, and several other very large corporations. Not only that, they have partnerships with Sony Computer Entertainment and Ubisoft.

WARDUKE
08-16-2013, 06:37 PM
But do you think they can continue when these new mmos and next gen games come out? This has been my first MMO, is whats happening with Defiance typical when it comes to MMOs?

The next MMO style game that is big enough to really hurt Defiance would we Bungie's Destiny and that is over a year away from now. Even then, this game will still keep going.

I remember when WoW came out and EQ which was near seven years old(may have been five), had a large portion of it's community bail out for the WoW launch, the game continued and is not 14 years old.

See http://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds/b/446758879 @ 1:25:00 for a good talk about what is going on, now and in the future.

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 06:45 PM
I can understand your confidence in being able to essentially be the primary community manager for all Trion projects as well as your role as director of the community team in itself. But I dont think you're also expecting everyone to believe that the same level of depth of each community can be attained by you primarily and greg and deb secondarily as was previously maintained with the likes of Elrar on Rift. Im sure you can juggle spokeperson'ing for all to a certain level; but I think it is important to recognize that these different communities recognize that a single dedicated community manager to a game is vastly different in resources to that of someone spread across many.

As a long standing Rift member and one who frequents the forums, I can most definitely say she is looking through rose colored glasses. The same level is not there, and the bridge is not as stable as it probably should be. The forums have made that clear, and F2P and the deluge of in-game community issues have widened that gap significantly. And don't try to send in an in-game ticket in Rift. Myself and almost two dozen guild members either have open tickets for upward of three weeks now with no reply outside of the original automatic one, or got a follow-up reply that said it was resolved and closed. It wasn't resolved in the slightest.

Quality has definitely dropped in Rift.

Yes, sometimes change is hard. Unfortunately, to spend money on Trion Worlds, the wife and I have to have a certain level of confidence in the company. Since April 2013, that confidence has decreased. The past couple of months have made it plummet.

I certainly hope Trion Worlds comes through this stronger than before, as Hartsman and cohorts claim. The wife and I will definitely look at rejoining the community and spending money on Trion games again. As it stands right now, though, we'd just feel more comfortable somewhere else for the time being. The recent plummet in Rift community quality, and very little actual support on it, was really the nail on that one after all the cut-backs and shake-ups also going on.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 06:51 PM
I know exactly what you mean. I think the most accurate review of Defiance I have read so far said that pretty much Defiance is lackluster in a lot of ways. What Defiance does do right, namely the combat and exploration they do so well that for awihle; for me the main missions, you completely forget or don't even see its downsides and faults.

WARDUKE
08-16-2013, 06:58 PM
Yeah, the stuff they do right is the core mechanics and that alone has been enough to keep these guys playing since April. Defiance does need more non DLC content added if they want more people to invest in the game.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 07:01 PM
Yeah, the stuff they do right is the core mechanics and that alone has been enough to keep these guys playing since April. Defiance does need more non DLC content added if they want more people to invest in the game.
I think what they need to do, Ive said this before and Ill say it again. To keep us, the Defiance players happy, give us content and also plug the show at the same time. put out some episode content that deals with the fallout from what happened in the season finale of Defiance. Is that crazy or should that happen?

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 07:06 PM
I think what they need to do, Ive said this before and Ill say it again. To keep us, the Defiance players happy, give us content and also plug the show at the same time. put out some episode content that deals with the fallout from what happened in the season finale of Defiance. Is that crazy or should that happen?

If you listened to the Defiance (show) Executive Producer interviews from Comic Con, there is supposed to be episode content coming into the game that helps bridge some of the 11 months of story time between Season 1 and Season 2 (yes, almost a year has passed in the storyline between the two Seasons), especially considering Nolan is in Los Angeles in the beginning of Season 2 as he follows clues about where Irsa might be, and Varus from the game is being cast for the show.

Now, when Trion Worlds will get around to it, and whether or not that episode content is just more lackluster data recorders, remains to be seen.

I'm also curious what they have planned for the Bay Area storylines in the game, since to remain in sync with the show, Season 2 is a year later in the overall setting.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 07:11 PM
If you listened to the Defiance (show) Executive Producer interviews from Comic Con, there is supposed to be episode content coming into the game that helps bridge some of the 11 months of story time between Season 1 and Season 2 (yes, almost a year has passed in the storyline between the two Seasons), especially considering Nolan is in Los Angeles in the beginning of Season 2 as he follows clues about where Irsa might be, and Varus from the game is being cast for the show.

Now, when Trion Worlds will get around to it, and whether or not that episode content is just more lackluster data recorders, remains to be seen.
well if they want to right the sinking ship they will release actual content and not just data recorders, but it will most likely be shoot this thing, deactivate this, collect this etc. etc. etc. Was that this executive producer that said those things or the last one who got fired for promising us things that they couldn't deliver?

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 07:19 PM
well if they want to right the sinking ship they will release actual content and not just data recorders, but it will most likely be shoot this thing, deactivate this, collect this etc. etc. etc. Was that this executive producer that said those things or the last one who got fired for promising us things that they couldn't deliver?

That might have been the game's new Executive Producer that said that about the game's promises. I don't know, I stopped following him after the 3rd day he was posting.

The guy I am talking about is Kevin Murphy, the Executive Producer of the Syfy show. He explained that Season 2 takes place 11 months later (and that all the characters on the show have been what he called reset, as they are very different than when we last saw them 11 months before), that Nolan begins the season in Los Angeles looking for Irsa and will travel through the Bay Area, that Varus from the game is being cast for an episode or two of the show (Nolan and Irsa should be back in the Defiance town by about episode 5, he said), and that the Defiance game will have content that helps bridge the 11 month storyline gap between the two seasons.

So, Syfy is most definitely expecting Trion Worlds to deliver such content into the game, that's for sure.

jarrodlovesmusic
08-16-2013, 07:21 PM
That might have been the game's new Executive Producer that said that about the game's promises. I don't know, I stopped following him after the 3rd day he was posting.

The guy I am talking about is Kevin Murphy, the Executive Producer of the Syfy show. He explained that Season 2 takes place 11 months later (and that all the characters on the show have been what he called reset, as they are very different than when we last saw them 11 months before), that Nolan begins the season in Los Angeles looking for Irsa and will travel through the Bay Area, that Varus from the game is being cast for an episode or two of the show (Nolan and Irsa should be back in the Defiance town by about episode 5, he said), and that the Defiance game will have content that helps bridge the 11 month storyline gap between the two seasons.

So, Syfy is most definitely expecting Trion Worlds to deliver such content into the game, that's for sure.
Maybe expecting is not the right word, more like "assuming", and we all know what happens when you do that. I would love to find out what SYFY really feels about Defiance the video game.

WARDUKE
08-16-2013, 07:23 PM
I understand the feelings for the first DLC on it's lack of "stuff", but I don't think it represents the norm for what will come in future DLCs. I tend to agree with those players out there that believe most of the dismay of the current DLC comes from the long wait and not the amount of "stuff" in it. Had the DLC come out two weeks or less from launch, it would have been praised, because players wouldn't be invested into their characters yet. I am pretty sure this is why they created a way to swap player races for established characters.

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 07:40 PM
Maybe expecting is not the right word, more like "assuming", and we all know what happens when you do that. I would love to find out what SYFY really feels about Defiance the video game.

You and me both. Though, publicly, you will hear how great the transmedia partnership is going. That's normal PR, though. If there is another truth about it, you won't ever hear it until after the show is canceled, as usually that is when somebody involved with it will spill any real beans in an interview.




I understand the feelings for the first DLC on it's lack of "stuff", but I don't think it represents the norm for what will come in future DLCs. I tend to agree with those players out there that believe most of the dismay of the current DLC comes from the long wait and not the amount of "stuff" in it. Had the DLC come out two weeks or less from launch, it would have been praised, because players wouldn't be invested into their characters yet. I am pretty sure this is why they created a way to swap player races for established characters.

Well, Defiance most assuredly has less Devs on it now. Heck, after the layoffs, we can safely assume Trion has less Devs right now.

So, to kill a cliche, only time will tell whether or not the concern was warranted.

I, personally, don't have a concern. I've been in several games that have been closed (Earth & Beyond, Matrix Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and City of Heroes). It happens, and there are always other games out there (though I will always miss CoH).

I just have a lack of confidence in Trion Worlds, currently. Which is a shame, because I was a loyal Rift player since launch.

Gomly
08-16-2013, 07:58 PM
The class system is getting worse with Rift 3.0 (the place holder name for their next expansion), where you will have Mage Tank, Rogue Healer,

Rift has ALWAYS had a Rogue healer.

My beta character, and launch character, were Bards .... the Rogue healer spec.

Supposed to be support role but back then it was so overpowered if you had a couple of bards in a warfront then nothing died on that team.

Just started playing again and it seems they got nerfed into the ground.

Sanguinesun
08-16-2013, 08:02 PM
Elrar has given a thank you/good bye on over at mmo-champion:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1332722-Elrar-has-left-the-Building?p=22105584#post22105584

WARDUKE
08-16-2013, 08:03 PM
Glad I didn't just make a Bard then. :P

I don't think Defiance has much to worry about unless Rift gets into serious trouble. Symbiosis and all that.

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 08:10 PM
Rift has ALWAYS had a Rogue healer.

My beta character, and launch character, were Bards .... the Rogue healer spec.

Supposed to be support role but back then it was so overpowered if you had a couple of bards in a warfront then nothing died on that team.

Just started playing again and it seems they got nerfed into the ground.

It's another Something-Healer I am thinking of then. It was in the Rift 3.0 announcement info they have released so far. (Note: I have, surprisingly, never played a Rogue in Rift.)

Edit: Ah-ha. It's just a new soul tree for it: Physician. Also a new warrior healing soul tree. That's what I was trying to remember.

Edit #2: Apparently, it was leaked info. Yeah, shows you how much I've been paying attention lately.

WARDUKE
08-16-2013, 08:19 PM
Kind of surprised there isn't a Monk/Brawler type in that game. :(

Sanguinesun
08-16-2013, 08:22 PM
Kind of surprised there isn't a Monk/Brawler type in that game. :(

Next I expect you'll say a panda race too :/

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 08:23 PM
Kind of surprised there isn't a Monk/Brawler type in that game. :(

Please don't give them ideas. There are already enough souls in Rift that are . . . well . . . weak (or OP). Loved the game, but it had balance issues between the souls.

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 08:24 PM
Next I expect you'll say a panda race too :/

Funny you should say that, the wife and I also talked tonight about just going back to our Pandas . . . :p

NomadPhx
08-16-2013, 08:25 PM
"defiance's state" at the moment is down :(


well the servers are anyway.....

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 08:27 PM
"defiance's state" at the moment is down :(


well the servers are anyway.....

I don't know about Xbox (I know you PS3 guys seem to be down), but PC is up and running.

NomadPhx
08-16-2013, 08:28 PM
your superior hardware both infuriates and fills me with envy right now lol

Rasczak
08-16-2013, 08:30 PM
your superior hardware both infuriates and fills me with envy right now lol

You know what's worse? PC is up and I have no desire to play tonight. Probably going to hop on Neverwinter in a moment and continue the Foundry (player created) mission series I am on like Chapter 5 of. The author's made a heck of a mini-campaign. Really liking it.

NomadPhx
08-16-2013, 08:33 PM
im just trying to get my salvage up for lockboxes on Tuesday(fingers crossed) for i have saved weapon skill in pistols, bolt action and pump shotgun for charge weapon usage and i ain't gonna waste time or bits to get em lol

Anarchos
08-16-2013, 08:38 PM
Elrar was large both community wise and when it came to testing content.

Logging on to the PTS and asking for feedback directly and asking us to test this and that to see how it actually was affecting the playerbase available at that point.

A live person to manifest a true face for Trion Worlds to the players is worth much more than Twitter banter, forum macro replies and so on.

And he was for some time even possible to use Sheep Wand on!

brandileigh
08-16-2013, 08:50 PM
I have no idea if Rift players are playing Defiance, I heard rumors that Rift players hate Defiance. Did any of the people here buy or try Defiance because you played Rift and thought Defiance would be just as good? Do you think that the new console generation or games like Destiny, Elder Scrolls online or even Titan Fall will cause Defiance to be left in the dust? Is the current closures of many Trion Worlds Divisions a sign of the end? If it is do you think Defiance's less than spectacular showing is to blame?

I've played Rift since Day One ( even had to break down and buy a new computer for it, mine was such a toaster ). I didn't do the beta because I wasn't remotely interested in shooters. I finally played this game after a discount and cause I loved the cheesy show so much.

I don't think closures are ever a good sign but they should help to keep things running longer. It's probably some Lean business initiative as well. There is really no point in having two offices running if one could do everything honestly.

And yes I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if Defiance had a better showing, if things are successful, most companies don't implement sweeping changes.

Billy Guile
08-16-2013, 11:07 PM
i never got into Rift once i found out it wasnt based on this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Rifts_RPG_Ultimate_Edition_2005.jpg/220px-Rifts_RPG_Ultimate_Edition_2005.jpg


which is essentially what Defiance is, sans the mutations and crazy magic stuff(was replaced by aliens and arkfalls)

Pyth
08-16-2013, 11:19 PM
Cut the fat, keep the lean and move forward.
I like this guy.

Hey guy, I like you.

Gomly
08-17-2013, 01:01 AM
It's another Something-Healer I am thinking of then. It was in the Rift 3.0 announcement info they have released so far. (Note: I have, surprisingly, never played a Rogue in Rift.)

Edit: Ah-ha. It's just a new soul tree for it: Physician. Also a new warrior healing soul tree. That's what I was trying to remember.

Edit #2: Apparently, it was leaked info. Yeah, shows you how much I've been paying attention lately.

Seem I too have paid just as much attention fella .... I didn't know about that.

Well a Warrior that heals .... I know that every time I play my Warrior I have never, not once, thought to myself "you know what, i'm tired of caving in heads with this incredibly large sword ... I wish I could stand at the back and let others have all the fun while I heal them".

Ataraxia
08-17-2013, 01:20 AM
It all depends on Archeage, the hype is huge. If Trion fails to deliver, they're pretty much ****ed.

MacDeath
08-17-2013, 10:46 AM
I have no idea if Rift players are playing Defiance, I heard rumors that Rift players hate Defiance. Did any of the people here buy or try Defiance because you played Rift and thought Defiance would be just as good? Do you think that the new console generation or games like Destiny, Elder Scrolls online or even Titan Fall will cause Defiance to be left in the dust? Is the current closures of many Trion Worlds Divisions a sign of the end? If it is do you think Defiance's less than spectacular showing is to blame?
I played Rift from Alpha days, did all of the betas there, started playing in the head start and still play it. The Rift team is and was awesome. I was disappointed that the Defiance team couldn't seem to fix bugs and role out fresh content like the Rift team did.

I beleive that both Defiance and End of Nations have been and still are huge cash drains on Trion. IMO, Trion fired a lot of people from the Rift team because Rift wasn't bringing enough revenue to cover the costs of Defiance and EoN on top of Rifts own costs.

IMO, Defiance needs to find a way to get profitable or it SHOULD be shut down.

Rasczak
08-17-2013, 11:02 AM
i never got into Rift once i found out it wasnt based on this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Rifts_RPG_Ultimate_Edition_2005.jpg/220px-Rifts_RPG_Ultimate_Edition_2005.jpg


which is essentially what Defiance is, sans the mutations and crazy magic stuff(was replaced by aliens and arkfalls)

Kevin Siembeida is a parasite, pure and simple. I will never touch any product of his after learning how he treats too many of his own freelancers.

And the Rifts RPG? A kitchen sink setting with a severely broken system underneath it. Terrific for the min/max munchkins, I suppose. :rolleyes:

It was a horrible RPG.

MacDeath
08-17-2013, 11:12 AM
Elrar has given a thank you/good bye on over at mmo-champion:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1332722-Elrar-has-left-the-Building?p=22105584#post22105584
Elrar was a VERY good CM, one of the best. It seems that Trion has decided it can't afford CMs, good or bad. I'm worried that they may decide they can't afford much of the Customer Support folks either. All the Senior GMs and that whole management chain are in Austin and Scott is on the way there... Stay tuned.

Rasczak
08-17-2013, 11:17 AM
Elrar was a VERY good CM, one of the best. It seems that Trion has decided it can't afford CMs, good or bad. I'm worried that they may decide they can't afford much of the Customer Support folks either. All the Senior GMs and that whole management chain are in Austin and Scott is on the way there... Stay tuned.

Since the launch of F2P, Customer Support in Rift has been flushed. A lot of us over there are already wondering what Trion Worlds wants to do with that game, because keeping customers who need help doesn't seem to be part of the plan.

sirreal420
08-17-2013, 11:20 AM
huh people still play this? i would have figured everyone left and turned the light out by now...

jarrodlovesmusic
08-18-2013, 04:25 PM
huh people still play this? i would have figured everyone left and turned the light out by now...
The "light" has been turned off pretty much everywhere except their Redwood City location and who knows how long they will be on for, Trion's studios are playing dominos, one falls and they all start falling

WARDUKE
08-18-2013, 04:45 PM
Pretty sure they are nowhere near closing their doors. Streamlining to stay in the black reflects more on the amount of money they are generating from that office/worker, than it does on going out of business.

LALLY
08-18-2013, 05:01 PM
Pretty sure they are nowhere near closing their doors. Streamlining to stay in the black reflects more on the amount of money they are generating from that office/worker, than it does on going out of business.

don't worry they did state they are in this for the long run, very LOOOOOOOOOOONG run, probably the most true thing trion ever said. expect dlc 2 to be out this time next year with a new and improved horde single player mode

Rasczak
08-18-2013, 05:02 PM
Pretty sure they are nowhere near closing their doors. Streamlining to stay in the black reflects more on the amount of money they are generating from that office/worker, than it does on going out of business.

Closing doors, no. But whether or not they remain a contender in the industry, or go the way of Cryptic, FunCom, and Mythic remains to be seen.

WARDUKE
08-18-2013, 05:10 PM
Closing doors, no. But whether or not they remain a contender in the industry, or go the way of Cryptic, FunCom, and Mythic remains to be seen.

It wouldn't surprise me if somewhere down the road, Trion gets bought out by someone like Perfect World Entertainment. However, that actually wasn't such a bad deal for Cryptic, as Star Trek Online has become their most profitable game and is under constant development.

Game companies being bought and sold are pretty common in that industry.

Rasczak
08-18-2013, 05:24 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if somewhere down the road, Trion gets bought out by someone like Perfect World Entertainment. However, that actually wasn't such a bad deal for Cryptic, as Star Trek Online has become their most profitable game and is under constant development.

Game companies being bought and sold are pretty common in that industry.

Star Trek Online was the only game getting consistent development from Cryptic even under Atari. It was Champions Online that suffered like a stepchild (and still does, under PWE). Only now, Neverwinter has a cash shop with prices as inflated as the typical PWE game. Ungh.

If Trion is ever going to be bought out, despite the supposed invalidity of the current rumor going around, it really would be by a company like EA. I doubt PWE would be interested, and SOE (the other rumor) tends to buy games, not companies.

N3gativeCr33p
08-18-2013, 05:44 PM
I've seen so many different things go down in the business, I really have no idea what's going to happen. The current state of Defiance is... I'm waiting for season two of the TV show, and the game disc is sitting in my 360. Going to start a Castithan alt on Tuesday.

Gomly
08-18-2013, 05:45 PM
If Trion is ever going to be bought out, despite the supposed invalidity of the current rumor going around, it really would be by a company like EA. I doubt PWE would be interested, and SOE (the other rumor) tends to buy games, not companies.

Only reason EA would buy Trion would be to butcher it for the working parts.

I would say we've all seen what EA does to small studios but some folk may be a bit young to (not a dig but some of them happened a good few years ago and some folk may not have been gaming then).

I can't see the games Trion has currently being what EA would class as "profitable". Possibly Rift which would get a SWTOR cash shop makeover.

I can't see Defiance bringing in the money EA would want. Not a dig against Defiance but, again, we know EA likes those profits and what it does to games and studios that fail to bring in those profits.

I don't listen to rumours, especially rumours about EA. I've seen how aggressive they can be when they want a company and i'm not seeing that here so either they are silently poaching staff (one ex staff member has already gone to them) or they aren't as interested as some people think they are.

N3gativeCr33p
08-18-2013, 05:47 PM
Not a dig against Defiance but, again, we know EA likes those profits and what it does to games and studios that fail to bring in those profits.

Quoted for truth.

LALLY
08-18-2013, 05:56 PM
EA would never touch defiance

Daholic
08-18-2013, 06:35 PM
EA would never touch defiance

Never, Ever!

LALLY
08-18-2013, 06:42 PM
Never, Ever!

ever ever .

WARDUKE
08-18-2013, 07:06 PM
Star Trek Online was the only game getting consistent development from Cryptic even under Atari.

No, there was a good eight months of nothing in STO due to Atari. Atari stripped the company done to almost nothing. I would imagine PWE got one heck of a deal buying out Cryptic. The STO community was a lot more forgiving and understanding than the Defiance community though. Heck, it's taken Cryptic over four years just to get the Klingon faction remotely looking like a completed player faction.

Anyway, my point was that being bought out isn't always a bad thing. Heck, EA makes it's living off buying up failing developers and milking them for all they are worth. Not that EA is interested in Trion, as I was just trying to stick to latest comments.

Rasczak
08-18-2013, 07:08 PM
Only reason EA would buy Trion would be to butcher it for the working parts.

I would say we've all seen what EA does to small studios but some folk may be a bit young to (not a dig but some of them happened a good few years ago and some folk may not have been gaming then).

I can't see the games Trion has currently being what EA would class as "profitable". Possibly Rift which would get a SWTOR cash shop makeover.

I can't see Defiance bringing in the money EA would want. Not a dig against Defiance but, again, we know EA likes those profits and what it does to games and studios that fail to bring in those profits.

I don't listen to rumours, especially rumours about EA. I've seen how aggressive they can be when they want a company and i'm not seeing that here so either they are silently poaching staff (one ex staff member has already gone to them) or they aren't as interested as some people think they are.

I agree with everything you said in the quote.

And, no, I'm not putting any stock in the rumor myself, either. My statement was purely hypothetical based on it. The rumor is EA and SOE in talks. SOE is just silly, they don't buy companies; they buy games from companies (i.e. Matrix Online and Vanguard). EA would have been the likely of the two. They love to purchase and destroy small studios, look at what they did in recent years to Mythic and Bioware.



No, there was a good eight months of nothing in STO due to Atari. Atari stripped the company done to almost nothing. I would imagine PWE got one heck of a deal buying out Cryptic. The STO community was a lot more forgiving and understanding than the Defiance community though. Heck, it's taken Cryptic over four years just to get the Klingon faction remotely looking like a completed player faction.

Anyway, my point was that being bought out isn't always a bad thing. Heck, EA makes it's living off buying up failing developers and milking them for all they are worth. Not that EA is interested in Trion, as I was just trying to stick to latest comments.

I have a friend that worked at Cryptic. He was one of the executive producers on Neverwinter for 8 months, and worked on City of Villains development back in the day (he also did the Design Document for the Marvel MMO that Cryptic was once doing with Microsoft).

In the case of Star Trek Online, PWE is only the publisher of it, despite owning Cryptic. The license is purely in Cryptic's name (one reason they have not been totally absorbed as of yet, even though it is on PWE's want-to-do list). CBS also keeps a close eye on STO via Cryptic, making sure PWE doesn't cross a line.

But, do not blame Atari for everything. A lot of what has happened with STO is due to Jack Emmert, his politics, and mismanagement.

WARDUKE
08-18-2013, 07:16 PM
That's a fair assessment.

Pretty sure is STO had been a generic space game, even if everything worked exactly like it does in STO, they'd have closed up shop long ago. It's the Star Trek fanboys that keep this game alive. They all spend like $20 on a ship a month it seems, even though the ship is no better than the one they already have.. Silly Trekkies.

Gomly
08-18-2013, 07:40 PM
And, no, I'm not putting any stock in the rumor myself, either. My statement was purely hypothetical based on it. The rumor is EA and SOE in talks. SOE is just silly, they don't buy companies; they buy games from companies (i.e. Matrix Online and Vanguard). EA would have been the likely of the two. They love to purchase and destroy small studios, look at what they did in recent years to Mythic and Bioware.


Yeah, SOE would more than likely make a move on Rift if the games were to be sold separately. Unsure about Defiance, I don't quite know what SOE would do with it if they went for it.

I could see EA buying Trion in a way ... they do have some talented people working for them that would be worth butchering it for ... I just can't see them doing it to "merge" them in if you will.

If there are any truths to the rumours then i'm more likely to guess it's because they want some of the staff than any of the IP's.

The main reason i'm not putting much in these rumours is, as I said earlier, there isn't any "ripples" being felt. If EA wants something then it goes at it and they aren't shy about letting people know.

Being silent isn't usually EA's style but with Johnny R gone it may be a bit different.

But I just don't see it myself. Trion has done okay for itself but it's not raking in the kind of money that would attract EA's attention as it stands.

Rasczak
08-18-2013, 08:14 PM
Yeah, SOE would more than likely make a move on Rift if the games were to be sold separately. Unsure about Defiance, I don't quite know what SOE would do with it if they went for it.

I could see EA buying Trion in a way ... they do have some talented people working for them that would be worth butchering it for ... I just can't see them doing it to "merge" them in if you will.

If there are any truths to the rumours then i'm more likely to guess it's because they want some of the staff than any of the IP's.

The main reason i'm not putting much in these rumours is, as I said earlier, there isn't any "ripples" being felt. If EA wants something then it goes at it and they aren't shy about letting people know.

Being silent isn't usually EA's style but with Johnny R gone it may be a bit different.

But I just don't see it myself. Trion has done okay for itself but it's not raking in the kind of money that would attract EA's attention as it stands.

No, I don't see it myself, either. You are right, EA tends to not be so tight-lipped. Of course, to play devil's advocate, if there are indeed such talks going on (Hartsman alludes to "no"), normal procedure would be to keep it quiet until the deal was all but done.

On a different topic: I just wish Defiance had been a straight MMORPG, even one with some sort of action combat tacked on ala Neverwinter or DCUO. The setting, the lore, the races, the tension/politics--- this attempt at a Shooter is not exploring it in any depth, nor do I feel it ever can. This seems like a very wasted experience for such a Transmedia model. Those are two things (and the only two things) that I'll hand to Neverwinter: their quests explore the lore very well, and the combat is actually fun without being a complicated mess like DCUO can sometimes become.

ten4
08-19-2013, 01:20 AM
When I heard about Defiance I had to check it out. Rift impressed the hell out of me so I thought Defiance would be also cool b/c it is being made by Trion!

Well I was wrong.

This game has not changed much since early alpha and the TV crossover 'innovation' was a crock of shtako.

Now they have gone and fired pretty much the whole team working on it...yay?

Indra Echo
08-20-2013, 10:41 AM
Only reason EA would buy Trion would be to butcher it for the working parts.

I would say we've all seen what EA does to small studios but some folk may be a bit young to (not a dig but some of them happened a good few years ago and some folk may not have been gaming then).

I can't see the games Trion has currently being what EA would class as "profitable". Possibly Rift which would get a SWTOR cash shop makeover.

I can't see Defiance bringing in the money EA would want. Not a dig against Defiance but, again, we know EA likes those profits and what it does to games and studios that fail to bring in those profits.

I don't listen to rumours, especially rumours about EA. I've seen how aggressive they can be when they want a company and i'm not seeing that here so either they are silently poaching staff (one ex staff member has already gone to them) or they aren't as interested as some people think they are.

EA pretty much promotes and creates everything that becomes most hated in video games. They gobble up smaller companies to insure they have studios that can create any type of game they want and then force them to not create the games that fans liked.

Loathe the idea of not being able to sell your games used-EA worked very hard to stop that by creating the MP code needed to play online. They also started to try to work towards games having imaginative DRM where you had to be online at all times in order to play offline content. And have since gotten more creative with this kind of thing so instead of the onetime use code, players will now have to register with Origin (even console players) to play MP of any kind in EA games.

EA ruined Dead Space in making Dead Space 3 and actually included this kind of DRM in it by making some areas of the campaign inaccessible unless you played with others. They use microtransactions even for SP things and for things that are more needed and harder to get in game, instead of for truly optional things like outfits. EA's CEO said they wanted to force people to pay real money for bullets. And they want games to have Day One DLC that should have been in the base game, because they want to encourage people to pay extra for extra (but often needed) content on the day of a game's release, when people are more likely to spend more money on the game. Their idea is to make people pay $80 instead of $60 on day one.

All games that come under EA's umbrella must feature MP with Microtransactions and will require registering on Origin, and will at some point have day one DLC. And the patches that come later because the games are to be pushed out ASAP (and not when they're ready) will never fully fix what's wrong with the game. ME3 is one example. And broken or bad parts in DLC never gets patched (flying characters in one DLC, out of sync talking in another, missing audio as well).

The Sims 3 is a total money grab with constant "buy this" things in your face. They actually sell Simoleon packs for new hairdos, clothing, and stuff that cost $100, $200, and more. And you used to be able to make new areas using SimCity but they took that away and make it hard to even create things to import into the game.

And if you like Sports games well every year you are given the opportunity to buy the same game with new skins and some added stuff and start it all over again.

EA, when it was Electronic Arts was a good company. It's overly obsessed with taking over smaller companies and claiming franchises for itself and then ruining them.

Gomly
08-20-2013, 10:53 AM
Never thought i'd see myself type this but I agree with you completely there Indra.

EA has taken everything fun in gaming and found a way to make a profit out of it. The Sims has turned into an absolute joke. My wife enjoys the Sims games but refuses to buy them anymore purely because they charge 30 for "expansions" that are basic dlc packages.

Dead space started off really well. The first game was fantastic, second was decent and the third has no sense of "atmosphere" with the co-op thrown in and dodgy microtransaction.

I don't agree with the "all games must have multiplayer" tripe they have going on. I play most games to relax on my own in peace and quiet on my own. I have games for my multiplayer needs and Dead Space, Mass Effect and the like aren't games I want my multiplayer in.