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sonor
07-15-2012, 06:53 PM
So you pretty much have it on all platforms except the Mac and I know the Mac is capable as I play games on it all the time. I am disappointed to see it not on the list of platforms and think it's not fair to us who choose not to use windows. I don't have a PS3 or an XBOX so that means I can't enjoy the full amazing idea of this show and game. I hope you guys reconsider and put out a Mac version.

Escyos
07-15-2012, 07:17 PM
I'm sure Mac users are too busy looking for jobs. :D Just kidding.

I think there would probably be a Mac version or maybe the "PC" version is just fancy talk for "computer"

Adsinonimous
07-15-2012, 11:23 PM
I think it might be on Mac. Just because they only said Personal Computer, doesn't rule out Macs. I think that, if they weren't going to make a version for Macs, they would have said Windows Only.

Kalbuir
07-16-2012, 04:19 AM
I think certainly Mac users will be what they always are when it comes to new games: "screwed" if you want to play high-end games at launch history has proven buying a Mac is the worst thing you can do. Some games never make it to Mac's others make it to Mac a few months or at times even years after release.

The market is just not that appealing to games, just like the entire Unix platform is.

Escyos
07-16-2012, 05:15 AM
Well according to this (https://twitter.com/DefianceWorld/status/224685051340795904) there are no plans yet apparently.

Arkamenitas
07-16-2012, 07:36 PM
end of nations has no plan for mac support at launch, i wouldnt be surprised if defiance wont either.

i'll say the same thing here as I did there:

PFFFT macs dont have games!

Aaronjin
07-31-2012, 01:24 PM
you see, thats the first problem, you got a mac; and the second thing is, if mac support was important, it would be implmented at launch...otherwise, they will "get to it" when they make time...or have extra money to burn for a conversion

Siantlark
07-31-2012, 01:28 PM
Also it depends on what they're using to build the game. For example DirectX (If that's what they're using) is Windows only and is definitely going to make porting to Mac difficult if not impossible (It'd require them to rewrite everything into a more Mac friendly environment like OpenGl.) There's also the business factor. If there's not a lot of interest in a Mac version there's definitely not going to be a port.

Twarrior
02-12-2013, 03:50 PM
Doesn't MAC have an emulator application where they can run Windows games or does that not work good for high end graphics??

Aaricane
02-12-2013, 03:52 PM
Why would it come out on a sandwich from McDonalds??

Harcon
02-12-2013, 03:57 PM
Why would it come out on a sandwich from McDonalds??

haha, I thought mac users could run games through bootcamp?

lPATT
02-12-2013, 04:46 PM
people still use mac??????

DuoMaxwell007
02-12-2013, 04:49 PM
So you pretty much have it on all platforms except the Mac and I know the Mac is capable as I play games on it all the time. I am disappointed to see it not on the list of platforms and think it's not fair to us who choose not to use windows. I don't have a PS3 or an XBOX so that means I can't enjoy the full amazing idea of this show and game. I hope you guys reconsider and put out a Mac version.

two words for you:

BOOT

CAMP

Portabella
03-21-2013, 06:42 AM
Developing anything for limited platforms today is folly. This isn't 1999 where the Windows market rules supreme and anything else is irrelevant minority. People buy computers and devices for convenience, and that includes everything they do with these devices (NOT just games). That said, developers should be factoring Tablets into the complete gaming experience as well, whether it is simply as a game-enhancement feature or developing a game in a way where part (or all) of the game can be experienced on a tablet client. For example, imagine that you could craft on a device client, so you could focus on more robust parts of a game when playing on your computer or console?

That said, ruling out one of the fastest growing computer and device markets is sheer laziness and demonstrates a disconnect with the consumer market. I don't care who likes or hates Macs, the fact is, they are growing in popularity largely because their iOS market dominates, and those devices integrate seamlessly with their computer platform. In the next decade, there is a strong possibility that if the market remains status quo, there will be a larger number of OSX users than has already grown in the past half decade, and it will be a percentage that challenges Windows substantially. If a game plans to still run its' client at that time (in other words, become a successful game), then it should be developed with present and future hardware trends in mind.

It's no mystery that some of the most successful game populations were built for both Mac and PC platforms. Food for thought. Bootcamp is a choice, but it requires Mac users to pay Microsoft's ludicrous pricetag for an operating system that they would use for nothing more than a game or two. Consider also that dual boot or virtualized Operating Systems eat up a substantial portion of the HD, and with SSD technology being the preference moving forward for improved performance (and SSD capacity is still quite limited compared to spinning counterparts), disk space currently is precious.

I prefer the OSX/iOS environment. I used to run Bootcamp, but I don't bother anymore partly for reasons listed above. Quite honestly, there is enough game variety available for the Mac to suit my needs whether through dedicated or a Cider Port client. Anything that doesn't offer an option doesn't get my attention any further than reading the system requirements (and posting my opinion on platform deployment on a forum :). I'm not the only Mac user that feels this way. I can live without a shiny new title in favour of something that supports my preferences.

I'm sure it's a wonderful game. Success will ultimately be determined by player retention and population. It's up to the game designers and developers to ensure they have a wide enough reach to make that happen for those of you who are very excited about this game.

Kantazo
03-21-2013, 06:56 AM
Macs are so freaking expensive that us regular folks cannot afford them, so we are stuck with PC and because we are a vast majority makes sense to make PC games instead of Mac's

Portabella
03-21-2013, 07:10 AM
Macs are so freaking expensive that us regular folks cannot afford them, so we are stuck with PC and because we are a vast majority makes sense to make PC games instead of Mac's

So, what you are really saying is that you can't afford a computer that is designed, built and retailed in its' brand-new state with current hardware components? This would also mean that you probably aren't sporting an Ivory Bridge based processor in your current PC with 1666 Mhz speed RAM and that your graphics card probably isn't the latest and greatest either (or at the very least, current)? I'm also going to go ahead and assume that at best, you probably also sport at best a 7200 RPM Hard Drive.

It's true, you can buy cheap PCs at Best Buy, Future Shop, or have one buit with random components but take a look at what's under the hood of those machines. Do a bit of research, and you'll find out that some (and sometimes all) of those machines are built with technology as much as 5 years out of date. Not surprising, it is users of systems such as these that consistently plague the Tech Support Forums of games with a myriad of issues including graphics stutter, poor framerate performance, error codes and more.

You actually "can" afford to buy Macs for bargain prices as well. These would be used or refurbished machines that sport similar pricetags and warranties that you would get for a similarly-built windows-based machine. If the idea of buying refurbished bothers you, think again about that "deal" you find on your PC, because most often of the reason PC machines and parts has a low pricetags is because they are built using refurbished parts (and you as a consumer don't realize this), or they are several generations out of date. For example, the i7 processor has gone through several generations (Nehelem, Westmere, Sandy Bridge, Ivory Bridge, etc.), and each generation increment has brought faster speeds, supports better and faster ram and other components, and overall makes a huge difference to the computing experience. Some people boast that they have an i7, but if it's a Nehelem processor, it's going to under-perform an i5 Ivory Bridge processor by a longshot.

Working in the hardware retail market for the past couple of years has taught me a bit about how this industry works. At the end of the day, dollar for dollar consumers end up paying the same price for Intel-based hardware. Whether it runs Mac OS, Windows or Linux is irrelevant. You pay for what you get. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

Kantazo
03-21-2013, 07:13 AM
So, what you are really saying is that you can't afford a computer that is designed, built and retailed in its' brand-new state with current hardware components? This would also mean that you probably aren't sporting an Ivory Bridge based processor in your current PC with 1666 Mhz speed RAM and that your graphics card probably isn't the latest and greatest either? I'm also going to go ahead and assume that at best, you probably also sport at best a 7200 RPM Hard Drive.

It's true, you can buy cheap PCs at Best Buy, Future Shop, or have one buit with random components but take a look at what's under the hood of machines. Do a bit of research, and you'll find out that some (and sometimes all) of those machines are built with technology as much as 5 years out of date. Not surprising, it is users of systems such as these that consistently plague the Tech Support Forums of games with a myriad of issues including graphics stutter, poor framerate performance, error codes and more.

You actually "can" afford to buy Macs for bargain prices as well. These would be used or refurbished machines that sport similar pricetags and warranties that you would get for a similarly-built windows-based machine. If the idea of buying refurbished bothers you, think again about that "deal" you find on your PC, because very often one of the reasons PC machines have low pricetags is because they are built using refurbished parts (and you as a consumer don't realize this).

Working in the hardware retail market for the past couple of years has taught me a bit about how this industry works. At the end of the day, dollar for dollar consumers end up paying the same price for Intel-based hardware. Whether it runs Mac OS, Windows or Linux is irrelevant. You pay for what you get. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

In few words, you love Mac and hate PC, I love PC and hate Mac

Lucid
03-21-2013, 07:22 AM
I am always a little shocked when I learn people still purchase Mac products.

GongStar
03-21-2013, 07:24 AM
I know a lot of people that spend money on macs but I know of no one that buys them and expects to play real games...

Portabella
03-21-2013, 07:40 AM
In few words, you love Mac and hate PC, I love PC and hate Mac

I'm going to confound you. I have no passion for one or the other. As a designer/developer by day my profession uses a number of different systems including Windows, Linux and OSX machines. As a part time job (for fun), I work for a computer/device retailer. As a result, I have a very interesting perspective on the trends in this market landscape.

I have developed a preference for Mac/iOS systems for my personal use simply because they are more convenient. Everything works well together and the Windows market doesn't offer anything that compares currently in terms of stability, reliability, hardware variety for entertainment and the multitude of Tablet to Systems apps that integrate with my devices and entertainment systems. As a result, I stopped buying PCs for myself, but my husband still prefers his Alienware notebook machine because all he does with his computer is Game. I do far, far more than that with mine. My husband also paid a much higher price tag than I paid for my 2011 MacBook Pro brand new. It was closer in price after I upgraded it to a OCZ Vertex 4 series SSD and upgraded the RAM to 16GB, while he still sports 8GB of RAM and a spinning HD.

My argument simply points out that the hardware is the same pricetag no matter what operating system runs on it. If you hate Macs, go out and buy yourself a similarly built Windows or Linux based system, but at the end of the day you're going to pay the same price for the hardware. You will however, pay much, much more for your operating system and software on a Windows OS system than you ever will for a Linux or Mac OS based system. OS Upgrades for Linux are free, and for MacOS they are $20, and software is generally a fraction of the price when not free, with a lot more variety, with the sole exception of games and localized enterprise level accounting systems.

The gaming and financial accounting industries are the only software solutions that have limited variety in these operating system environments. I personally believe that this is because historically, Windows has been the dominating Operating System and was for at least two decades. The reality is that this user landscape is rapidly and dramatically changing to one where many individuals for personal use are choosing systems with operating systems other than windows, and in many cases, they aren't buying personal computers at all anymore... they're buying tablets. One quick peek at statistics of the trends of all internet browsing over the past two years points this out elegantly. I can also say that from my experience in the retail segment of computer and tablet sales in recent years that this is indeed very much the trend moving forward and to ignore it spells out disaster for software development companies.

I predict that any software development company that creates games or accounting software this decade and does so with tablet and operating system variety will be the companies that dominate the market moving forward. Let's have this discussion again in 10 years... I'm sure it will be interesting :)

Kantazo
03-21-2013, 07:41 AM
Oh Master One Kenoboni. I understand

Mac good for work, PC good for play.

Lucid
03-21-2013, 07:42 AM
I'm going to confound you. I have no passion for one or the other. As a designer/developer by day my profession use a number of different systems including Windows, Linux and OSX machines.

I have developed a preference for Mac/iOS systems for my personal use simply because they are more convenient. Everything works well together and the Windows market doesn't offer anything that compares currently in terms of stability, reliability, hardware variety for entertainment and the multitude of Tablet to Systems apps that integrate with my devices and entertainment systems. As a result, I stopped buying PCs for myself, but my husband still prefers his Alienware notebook machine because all he does with his computer is Game. I do far, far more than that with mine. My husband also paid a much higher price tag than I paid for my 2011 MacBook Pro brand new. It was closer in price after I upgraded it to a OCZ Vertex 4 series SSD and upgraded the RAM to 16GB, while he still sports 8GB of RAM and a spinning HD.

My argument simply points out that the hardware is the same pricetag no matter what operating system runs on it. If you hate Macs, go out and buy yourself a similarly built Windows or Linux based system, but at the end of the day you're going to pay the same price for the hardware. You will however, pay much, much more for your operating system and software on a Windows OS system than you ever will for a Linux or Mac OS based system. OS Upgrades for Linux are free, and for MacOS they are $20, and software is generally a fraction of the price when not free, with a lot more variety, with the sole exception of games.

The gaming industry is the only software solution that has limited variety in these operating system environments. I personally believe that this is because historically, Windows has been the dominating Operating System and was for at least two decades. The reality is that this user landscape is rapidly and dramatically changing to one where many individuals for personal use are choosing systems with operating systems other than windows, and in many cases, they aren't buying personal computers at all anymore... they're buying tablets. One quick peek at statistics of the trends of all internet browsing over the past two years points this out elegantly. I can also say that from my experience in the retail segment of computer and tablet sales in recent years that this is indeed very much the trend moving forward and to ignore it spells out disaster for software development companies.

You're a web designer... aren't you...

Portabella
03-21-2013, 07:52 AM
You're a web designer... aren't you...

I'm many things. I'm a software developer, graphic designer, web developer, print technician, project manager, business owner, sales professional, software trainer (Mac/PC), and a hardware/software consultant... just to name a few. I once specialized in Virus Removal... but I got out of that business to save my sanity.

Lucid
03-21-2013, 07:58 AM
I'm many things. I'm a software developer, graphic designer, web developer, print technician, project manager, business owner, sales professional, software trainer (Mac/PC), and a hardware/software consultant... just to name a few. I once specialized in Virus Removal... but I got out of that business to save my sanity.

What languages?

Kantazo
03-21-2013, 07:59 AM
I'm many things. I'm a software developer, graphic designer, web developer, print technician, project manager, business owner, sales professional, software trainer (Mac/PC), and a hardware/software consultant... just to name a few. I once specialized in Virus Removal... but I got out of that business to save my sanity.

So basically you are apprentice of many things and master of none? (just kidding, I am myself in the same boat, I am a musician, poet and krazy)

Portabella
03-21-2013, 08:02 AM
Oh Master One Kenoboni. I understand

Mac good for work, PC good for play.

You actually have that backwards. The number of people who purchase Windows based machines strictly for personal use are the minority. Most Windows-based solutions are for enterprise/business reasons (largely because of the limited availability of financial accounting software). Because billing software ties into ERP systems, that means entire companies must run on the same platform.

People are choosing Macs more today for personal use because of the personal and entertainment software availability that comes part of OSX, and how seamlessly these things integrate with their smartphones and tablets. The software is cheaper to maintain and the hardware is more reliable lasting years longer than cheaper PC units (refer to my above posts on hardware for the reason why), which means ultimately they pay less for their machines than they would if they bought a PC with Windows.

You wouldn't believe how many businesses are finding creative ways to convert from Windows to Mac OS based machines in order to cut costs on Microsoft software licensing and improve hardware reliability. Like I said, the landscape is changing and I believe that the first financial enterprise level package that has localized functionality for country-based taxation and finance laws is going to be the catalyst that will put Microsoft to the ultimate test.

MacDeath
03-21-2013, 08:07 AM
But... Why should Trion spend any of their resources to provide native support for Mac? Solutions already exist to run Defiance on Mac (such as bootcamp).

Intense
03-21-2013, 08:15 AM
As it was stated before, use boot camp. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1461

Delphos
03-21-2013, 09:41 AM
Buying a Mac is the worse thing you can do as a gammer. Just get used to it.

Legende
03-21-2013, 09:44 AM
two words for you:

BOOT

CAMP

This 100%. If you were real MAC users you'd cry less on a forum and actually learn all the features of your POS. I was stuck with a MAC for a while and got by just fine because of bootcamp. Learn before you cry.

Psychometrics
03-21-2013, 09:46 AM
So you pretty much have it on all platforms except the Mac and I know the Mac is capable as I play games on it all the time. I am disappointed to see it not on the list of platforms and think it's not fair to us who choose not to use windows. I don't have a PS3 or an XBOX so that means I can't enjoy the full amazing idea of this show and game. I hope you guys reconsider and put out a Mac version.

you don't need a mac version lol..run boot camp, it comes with your machine~ problem solved

Tenz
03-21-2013, 09:50 AM
what about them lol JK

Portabella
03-21-2013, 09:52 AM
MacDeath: it's their choice what platform they develop for. My argument simply states that any software company that plans to develop for platforms and operating systems that statistically are showing dramatic market incline will ensure sustained and future success of their product.

Intense, Legende, Psychometrics & other Boot Camp advocates: While you are correct, you fail to factor in HD resources required to run windows plus the game software upon that. For stable operation it's generally recommended no less than 80GB, but 120GB gives you a bit more room to breathe, particularly those who aren't comfortable optimizing Windows tendency towards outrageous physical memory usage. While iMac users generally will have little to worry about allocating this amount of space, traditional notebook machines will be outfit with no greater than a 750 GB spinning HD at 5400rpm. However, the majority MacBook units (Pro and Air) released within the past year are sporting SSD drives, starting at 64GB and have capacities ranging up to 500GB. Those using the larger drives purchased that unit for a purpose, and it's generally design and/or video production software (which take a phenomenal amount of disk space). The mere thought of devoting 100 GB of drive space to a bloated operating system in order to run a single video game is preposterous and again, shows a lack of consideration to this market by the developer. For the record, the average SSD user is sporting a 128 or 256 drive. Senseless to dedicate as much as 80GB to drives that size, let alone 120.

So, while Bootcamp is a solution, it just isn't going to work for everybody.

That said, why give any software company that doesn't consider your preferences any money? They sure haven't earned it, have they? Besides, there are a growing number of titles designed specifically for OSX, either dedicated development or using Cider Ports that are getting really decent now (Guild Wars 2 did an amazing port job IMHO). Give those companies your entertainment money because they're putting the effort in to consider you as a consumer with choice... Just move on, and leave titles like this to the shrinking Windows entertainment market. Maybe this game should have stuck to console only... /shrug.

Aliyah
03-21-2013, 09:57 AM
One of our clan mates plays stuff on a Mac exclusively due to needing the thing for work, that being said he has never had issues running stuff in boot camp, even brand new titles. Granted his new Mac is maybe 3 months old and works rather well.

I have both Mac and PC though I do not game on the Mac it is a work computer.

Legende
03-21-2013, 10:00 AM
Shrinking windows market.. get off the Mac soap box. If you choose not to use your computer the way it can be, no one is going to feel sorry for you kid, sorry. If you think your sob story is going to deter windows players to think "hey they aren't supporting Mac, that isn't right, I'm not going to play", think you're delusional.

Basically, use bootcamp or don't, we don't care one way or the other.

Psychometrics
03-21-2013, 10:03 AM
MacDeath: it's their choice what platform they develop for. My argument simply states that any software company that plans to develop for platforms and operating systems that statistically are showing dramatic market incline will ensure sustained and future success of their product.

Intense, Legende, Psychometrics & other Boot Camp advocates: While you are correct, you fail to factor in HD resources required to run windows plus the game software upon that. For stable operation it's generally recommended no less than 80GB, but 120GB gives you a bit more room to breathe, particularly those who aren't comfortable optimizing Windows tendency towards outrageous physical memory usage. While iMac users generally will have little to worry about allocating this amount of space, traditional notebook machines will be outfit with no greater than a 750 GB spinning HD at 5400rpm. However, the majority MacBook units (Pro and Air) released within the past year are sporting SSD drives, starting at 64GB and have capacities ranging up to 500GB. Those using the larger drives purchased that unit for a purpose, and it's generally design and/or video production software (which take a phenomenal amount of disk space). The mere thought of devoting 100 GB of drive space to a bloated operating system in order to run a single video game is preposterous and again, shows a lack of consideration to this market by the developer.

That said, why give any software company that doesn't consider your preferences any money? They sure haven't earned it, have they? Besides, there are a growing number of titles designed specifically for OSX, either dedicated development or using Cider Ports that are getting really decent now (Guild Wars 2 did an amazing port job IMHO). Give those companies your entertainment money because they're putting the effort in to consider you as a consumer with choice... Just move on, and leave titles like this to the shrinking Windows entertainment market. Maybe this game should have stuck to console only... /shrug.


You could go on like that for days, but it doesn't matter. You are more than capable of running boot camp to fix the problem. You willingly chose a mac that isn't a gaming machine first, rather very much last. Not to mention if you bought a mac in past few years, whether its a desktop or a laptop, you can run most things on high no problem. No room on computer? Make room. My bf has both PC, and Mac (multiple) from a few years back and he runs a lot of the latest games no problem on all high settings.

There is no point even making a debate on this lol Mac doesn't cater to the gamers. They aren't particularly interested at all or they'd have made adjustments a long time ago. If I want a PS3 game, I'll buy a PS3. I'm not going to complain I can't play a PS3 exclusive on my PC or w.e it is xP That's life, and you know the fix- so there's no point talking about it. If its a huge deal to you that you have to go out of your way to play video games, buy a PC or start a petition to Apple how you'd like to see more gaming capabilities on their products.

Portabella
03-21-2013, 10:04 AM
Shrinking windows market.. get off the Mac soap box. If you choose not to use your computer the way it can be, no one is going to feel sorry for you kid, sorry. If you think your sob story is going to deter windows players to think "hey they aren't supporting Mac, that isn't right, I'm not going to play", think you're delusional.

Basically, use bootcamp or don't, we don't care one way or the other.

I certainly seem to have gotten your attention... I so love agressive Mac haters. Obviously, you do care (or you wouldn't have bothered to post).

So tell me, why do you so hate growing the accessibility of software to include platforms other than Windows?

For the record, I could care less if I could buy this game. As stated before, I have many other options to choose from. I just love putting in my 2 cents every time a software company fails to acknowledge market trends :)

Psychometrics
03-21-2013, 10:35 AM
I certainly seem to have gotten your attention... I so love agressive Mac haters. Obviously, you do care (or you wouldn't have bothered to post).

So tell me, why do you so hate growing the accessibility of software to include platforms other than Windows?

For the record, I could care less if I could buy this game. As stated before, I have many other options to choose from. I just love putting in my 2 cents every time a software company fails to acknowledge market trends :)

He never said he hated it lol he only expressed his disbelief. It may be true the figures are going down, but the fact remains Mac is not meant to be a gaming machine. It provides boot camp so you can choose to use it for games, but it wasn't designed for games. It's not hating on macs, its simply telling you; you have the tools. Choose to use it or not, it'll only be affecting you and no one else.

Buruko
03-21-2013, 10:56 AM
As gaming on Linux picks up steam (ha!) they most likely will port the title to Mac or offer Mac support in some way. However due to architecture and design it's faster and cheaper to develop for PC, Xbox, and PS3 and then work on a Mac port, than to include it from the get go. Simple business, and just cause a Company doesn't choose to support a particular platform at launch doesn't mean they are ignoring it, just that for one reason or another it doesn't make sense to go in that direction yet.

As far as gaming on a Mac while they are not 'bleeding edge' gaming rigs there is very little a Mac of the last few generations cannot run with appropriate support, ie. VMware, Parallels, or Boot Camp. I run the Alpha client on a four year old Mac Book Pro with a 120 GB Windows 7 boot camp partition without any issues. My iMac runs it flawlessly on my beautiful 27" display on a 200 GB Windows 7 boot camp partition. So if a Mac user wants to play it they can, kinda like getting the best of both worlds.

I won't get into the cost argument or the which is better argument those are pointless, it's like arguing cars with people sure you can quantify which one goes faster than the other but the things that may make one type of car more important than another to you may not mean anything to the other person. It's called preference and we are all free to exercise it, but no one's specific preference is better than anyone else.

I however am still opting for Xbox as I love the controller and love the log and go play style. As for why some Mac users get grumpy about boot camp, it's mostly to do with the purchase of a Windows license or the need to obtain such a license that gets folks in a tizzy.

Portabella
03-21-2013, 11:38 AM
He never said he hated it lol he only expressed his disbelief. It may be true the figures are going down, but the fact remains Mac is not meant to be a gaming machine. It provides boot camp so you can choose to use it for games, but it wasn't designed for games. It's not hating on macs, its simply telling you; you have the tools. Choose to use it or not, it'll only be affecting you and no one else.

If you had have read my earlier posts, you would have learned that Bootcamp is a situational option for Mac users, but not all. I'll go ahead and explain this one more time.

This is largely due to the fact that a partitioned installation of Windows plus game install would require more HD space than many current models will have available. After all, one does purchase a Mac because they want to use applications that come with a Mac, plus their other software (Work and Entertainment). Not everyone uses an iMac, and it's no mystery that laptops are far more popular than desktops these days. Apple has been using SSD technology in their Airs for years, and are in the process of phasing out rotary drives entirely in their MacBook line. This means smaller internal storage drives in capacities of 64GB, 128GB, 256GB and 500GB. Larger drives are emerging into the market, but they are still at very high price points. Even the 500GB varieties are about a $1 a GB.

I've used Bootcamp with great success in the past, but I can honestly say that the "average" Mac user is not using a machine quite like mine. I've performed a number of after-market upgrades that most people would find unnecessary. But I'm talking about the average person here, not me, and I can't with any degree of honesty say that this is a viable option for a good percentage of people who have bought a MacBook within the past year, unless they opted for the Non-Retina Pros. For the record, all of these machines, including the Air line, would meet the minimum system requirements for this game had it been developed for the OSX platform.

The integration of SSD technology is not an "Apple Only" thing. Most notebook manufacturers are turning to this technology in order to make notebooks thinner with better performance, more lightweight, and improved reliability (SSDs tend to have a longer lifespan than rotary drives under proper conditions -- no moving parts).

Lastly, to call any computer a "Gaming Only" machine is ridiculous. It's all about the hardware inside the machine. The same hardware that they put in "Gaming Branded" machines is the same stuff they stick inside HPs, Dells, Lenovos, Alienware, and yes, even Macs! The proper term would be called "Intel Based" machine. Provided the hardware in your machine meets the minimum system requirements, other than the developer not supporting the OS platform, there is no reason why a machine could not support it.

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 11:55 AM
for a start im not a mac user, and i do not care for their products. (thats another long winded post saved).

but lets face it they still only have less then 4% of the market. and most of them are not exactly gamers. so for a company to put money into building there games for apple compatibilty, is more of a leap of faith then anything, and considering how hard apply make it on developers, worse then sony and microsoft on console i believe (not 100% was told it from a mac use a while ago).

plus the fact that since steve jobs has gone, they seem to pushing more gimicks then actual innovations which is what makes the brand so expensive. granted im no economic expert, but the future for apple, may not be so bright.

Portabella
03-21-2013, 12:16 PM
for a start im not a mac user, and i do not care for their products. (thats another long winded post saved).

but lets face it they still only have less then 4% of the market. and most of them are not exactly gamers. so for a company to put money into building there games for apple compatibilty, is more of a leap of faith then anything, and considering how hard apply make it on developers, worse then sony and microsoft on console i believe (not 100% was told it from a mac use a while ago).

plus the fact that since steve jobs has gone, they seem to pushing more gimicks then actual innovations which is what makes the brand so expensive. granted im no economic expert, but the future for apple, may not be so bright.

Your numbers are quite off:

According to Wikipedia:

Desktop Operating System statistics on Net Applications (Desktop OS Market Share as of February 2013 Net Applications)

Windows 7: 44.55%
Windows XP: 38.99%
OS X: 7.15%
Windows Vista: 5.17%
Windows 8: 2.79%
Other: 2.11%
Linux : 1.21%

That makes OS X the third most popular OS. What isn't indicated by these percentages, however, is how many of those machines are deployed inside workplaces. I guarantee that the larger percentage of all Windows machines will be inside business environments, and I also guarantee that this is not the target market for game software.

That leaves home users. According to dated article in Macworld and PCWorld (2009), nearly 12 percent of U.S. households were using Macs, which was up 3% from 2008. In a more recent article (2012), it was published that according to CNBC’s All-America Economic Survey, 50% of all households own Apple products and of those, one quarter buy another Apple product within one year. It was also speculated that 1 in 10 of households that did not own Apple products would make the leap within the year.

Obviously, the popularity of Apple as a computer company is on the rise, and to ignore it... simply isn't smart business. Tablets are on the rise, and iOS browsing dominates the internet traffic reports. Most who own an iOS device ultimately decide to purchase a Mac because device integration is seamless. That is simply the point I have been making with my posts.

Flame on! :)

References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
http://www.macworld.com/article/1143133/npd_12percent.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/173119/article.html
http://9to5mac.com/2012/03/28/survey-majority-of-u-s-households-now-own-apple-products/

Lucid
03-21-2013, 12:32 PM
Your numbers are quite off:

According to Wikipedia:

Desktop Operating System statistics on Net Applications (Desktop OS Market Share as of February 2013 Net Applications)

Windows 7: 44.55%
Windows XP: 38.99%
OS X: 7.15%
Windows Vista: 5.17%
Windows 8: 2.79%
Other: 2.11%
Linux : 1.21%

That makes OS X the third most popular OS. What isn't indicated by these percentages, however, is how many of those machines are deployed inside workplaces. I guarantee that the larger percentage of all Windows machines will be inside business environments, and I also guarantee that this is not the target market for game software.

That leaves home users. According to dated article in Macworld and PCWorld (2009), nearly 12 percent of U.S. households were using Macs, which was up 3% from 2008. In a more recent article (2012), it was published that according to CNBC’s All-America Economic Survey, 50% of all households own Apple products and of those, one quarter buy another Apple product within one year. It was also speculated that 1 in 10 of households that did not own Apple products would make the leap within the year.

Obviously, the popularity of Apple as a computer company is on the rise, and to ignore it... simply isn't smart business. Tablets are on the rise, and iOS browsing dominates the internet traffic reports. Most who own an iOS device ultimately decide to purchase a Mac because device integration is seamless. That is simply the point I have been making with my posts.

Flame on! :)

References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
http://www.macworld.com/article/1143133/npd_12percent.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/173119/article.html
http://9to5mac.com/2012/03/28/survey-majority-of-u-s-households-now-own-apple-products/

Feb 2013
Win8- 5.7%
Win7- 55.3%
Vista- 2.4%
NT*- 0.5%
WinXP- 19.1%
Linux - 4.8%
Mac- 9.6%
Mobile- 2.2%
[ http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp ]

Operating System
Total Market Share - 2013
Windows 7
44.55%
Windows XP
38.99%
Windows Vista
5.17%
Windows 8
2.67%
Mac OS X 10.8
2.61%
Mac OS X 10.6
1.97%
Mac OS X 10.7
1.93%
Linux
1.21%
Mac OS X 10.5
0.51%
Mac OS X 10.4
0.13%
Windows 8 Touch
0.10%
Windows 2000
0.06%
Windows NT
0.06%
Windows 8 RT Touch
0.02%
Mac OS X (no version reported)
0.02%
Windows 98
0.01%
Mac OS X Mach-O
0.00%
[ http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 ]

Statistics from my server farm show about the same... although, these sources can never be compared to... *chuckle*... Wikipedia.

Whiplash
03-21-2013, 12:36 PM
Developing anything for limited platforms today is folly. This isn't 1999 where the Windows market rules supreme and anything else is irrelevant minority. People buy computers and devices for convenience, and that includes everything they do with these devices (NOT just games). That said, developers should be factoring Tablets into the complete gaming experience as well, whether it is simply as a game-enhancement feature or developing a game in a way where part (or all) of the game can be experienced on a tablet client. For example, imagine that you could craft on a device client, so you could focus on more robust parts of a game when playing on your computer or console?

That said, ruling out one of the fastest growing computer and device markets is sheer laziness and demonstrates a disconnect with the consumer market. I don't care who likes or hates Macs, the fact is, they are growing in popularity largely because their iOS market dominates, and those devices integrate seamlessly with their computer platform. In the next decade, there is a strong possibility that if the market remains status quo, there will be a larger number of OSX users than has already grown in the past half decade, and it will be a percentage that challenges Windows substantially. If a game plans to still run its' client at that time (in other words, become a successful game), then it should be developed with present and future hardware trends in mind.

It's no mystery that some of the most successful game populations were built for both Mac and PC platforms. Food for thought. Bootcamp is a choice, but it requires Mac users to pay Microsoft's ludicrous pricetag for an operating system that they would use for nothing more than a game or two. Consider also that dual boot or virtualized Operating Systems eat up a substantial portion of the HD, and with SSD technology being the preference moving forward for improved performance (and SSD capacity is still quite limited compared to spinning counterparts), disk space currently is precious.

I prefer the OSX/iOS environment. I used to run Bootcamp, but I don't bother anymore partly for reasons listed above. Quite honestly, there is enough game variety available for the Mac to suit my needs whether through dedicated or a Cider Port client. Anything that doesn't offer an option doesn't get my attention any further than reading the system requirements (and posting my opinion on platform deployment on a forum :). I'm not the only Mac user that feels this way. I can live without a shiny new title in favour of something that supports my preferences.

I'm sure it's a wonderful game. Success will ultimately be determined by player retention and population. It's up to the game designers and developers to ensure they have a wide enough reach to make that happen for those of you who are very excited about this game.

TLDR; I zoned out after reading a few lines and basically what I got from this is "I'm a cool hipster with lots of money to blow on an overpriced computer"

Lucid
03-21-2013, 12:38 PM
Also, if you're arguing that companies need to be more aware of the slow rise in popularity of Mac products, I will give you a simple example as to why my company, nor any of the CIO's for many top tiered software as a service companies figure in Mac support as a nice to have vs a must have. Put simply, the ROI is not worth the engineering hours... when cost of man hours < return on investment, Mac will see it's "proper treatment".

Microsoft for business, gaming, and personal applications.
*nix for server and framework.
Mac... for liberal arts majors at coffee shops.

Bamboozled
03-21-2013, 12:47 PM
I am a Mac user, I am a PC user (I actually used Illustrator on the PC for years to develop great designs), I use both for everything. Including games. Dungeon Hunter Alliance is a great co-op hack and slash on the Mac that did coop right.

The only 2 cents I will put into this conversation, is that I really appreciate the aspect of the UNIX shell in OSX, not DOS, and also the ability to have a local host environment set up on my Mac in less that 5 minutes. For some reason, I just can't get over the degree of abstraction that windows has with it's host files, etc, and where they are located in the system.

UNIX is a great file structure, why re-invent the wheel?

As far as games go, I agree that software developers should keep their options open. Developing for one platform nowadays seems like you are limiting yourself in the future.

Portabella
03-21-2013, 12:48 PM
Feb 2013
Win8- 5.7%
Win7- 55.3%
Vista- 2.4%
NT*- 0.5%
WinXP- 19.1%
Linux - 4.8%
Mac- 9.6%
Mobile- 2.2%
[ http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp ]

Operating System
Total Market Share - 2013
Windows 7
44.55%
Windows XP
38.99%
Windows Vista
5.17%
Windows 8
2.67%
Mac OS X 10.8
2.61%
Mac OS X 10.6
1.97%
Mac OS X 10.7
1.93%
Linux
1.21%
Mac OS X 10.5
0.51%
Mac OS X 10.4
0.13%
Windows 8 Touch
0.10%
Windows 2000
0.06%
Windows NT
0.06%
Windows 8 RT Touch
0.02%
Mac OS X (no version reported)
0.02%
Windows 98
0.01%
Mac OS X Mach-O
0.00%
[ http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 ]

Statistics from my server farm show about the same... although, these sources can never be compared to... *chuckle*... Wikipedia.

You will note that Wikipedia cites the same Netmarketshare.com report that you used. The only difference (obviously) is that the report Wikipedia uses combines all OSX versioning.

You were saying? :0

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 12:52 PM
thats 7% vs 91.5%, and yes it is on the rise. but right now the margins are not there for a company to risk making a games compatible. Apple make a stupid amount of money, because they charge stupid prices. that does not translate to game developers getting a piece of the action

but i know alot of my Mac loving friends all turning back to pc's because they have looked at what apple are producing since Jobs passed on. Im even having a lot of Apple based customers all converting back to Pc's.

Yes the numbers do look good, but with apple spending a massive amount less on R&D then the rivals, and the visonary who drove apple to what it is gone. it wont be long before things slow down

Lucid
03-21-2013, 12:52 PM
You will note that Wikipedia cites the same Netmarketshare.com report that you used. The only difference (obviously) is that the report Wikipedia uses combines all OSX versioning.

You were saying? :0

*Points up to response of Cost of vs Return on Investment as compared to why Mac remains a second rate citizen in the world of the big kids.

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 12:54 PM
You will note that Wikipedia cites the same Netmarketshare.com report that you used. The only difference (obviously) is that the report Wikipedia uses combines all OSX versioning.

You were saying? :0

he was saying he agees with your figures

Portabella
03-21-2013, 12:55 PM
he was saying he agees with your figures

I was responding to his Wikipedia Jab :p

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 12:57 PM
I was responding to his Wikipedia Jab :p

lol fair enough. but i will agree with him, that wiki has been know for its inaccuracys, on this occasion wiki did well and can have a biscuit :)

Portabella
03-21-2013, 12:58 PM
At the very least and with Cider ports, I'm certain the costs aren't as grand as you speculate. We're talking about integration, not a complete re-write.

Portabella
03-21-2013, 01:02 PM
lol fair enough. but i will agree with him, that wiki has been know for its inaccuracys, on this occasion wiki did well and can have a biscuit :)

It is true... community based after all. Still, if a kid can develop a cheap early test for certain types of Cancer with nearly 100% accuracy using Wikipedia as a primary research source, I'm not going to disregard it.

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 01:07 PM
At the very least and with Cider ports, I'm certain the costs aren't as grand as you speculate. We're talking about integration, not a complete re-write.

tbh i wouldnt know where to start with a mac and coding. i cant imagion it would be to hard, but i suppose on big budget games, the priority is get the game launced then worry about ports later

MacDeath
03-21-2013, 01:20 PM
I am not a Mac hater. My NAME is Mac!!! My household has multiple Apple products as well as multiple PCs. It wouldn't cause me to be upset at all if Trion decided to make a native port for Mac OS. I just don't expect they will however. Why spend the money to pick up the very few players who only have access to a Mac and refuse to use boot camp?

Valethar
03-21-2013, 02:13 PM
but lets face it they still only have less then 4% of the market. and most of them are not exactly gamers.

Please don't repeat information that's literally years out of date. As of this past October, they're were at almost 14% (http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apples-mac-gains-share-as-u.s.-pc-sales-drop). And there are far more gamers on the platform than you think, they just don't get much in the way of games because of biased outdated thinking like that 4% nonsense.

I'm actually shocked you said that without the slightest bit of research, given how you're usually more meticulous about things than that.

Yeah, 14% is still less than Windows, but it's steadily increasing, as are other platforms. If it was a platform that didn't make money, there would be no games on it at all.

One tidbit of history, just for fun. You know that Xbox franchise everyone loves to hate on? And the developer that used to be part of Microsoft's game stable? Yup, I'm talking Halo and Bungie. Want to take a wild guess where they got started?

Programming games for the Mac. The precursor to Halo was a game called Marathon. Before Microsoft bought them out and reshuffled the deck, Halo was slated to be a Mac/PC title (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo:_Combat_Evolved).

The hardware is essentially the same on both platforms these days. The only real difference is the OS. Publishers can easily create the games, and there would be a market. Unfortunately few of them have the balls to actually do it.

Would they make as much as the PC alone? No, but it's obviously not that hard to do, and profitable enough to warrant the resources, or companies like Blizzard (WoW, Starcraft and Diablo), Aspyr (Bioshock Infinite), Firaxis (Civ 5), Electronic Arts, Bethesda (Elder Scrolls Online) and others wouldn't be publishing games for the platform.

Lupis Volk
03-21-2013, 02:35 PM
Doesn't MAC have an emulator application where they can run Windows games or does that not work good for high end graphics??

There's a program called bootcamp it allows you to run A PC OS on a Mac.

Inori
03-21-2013, 02:40 PM
I'm sure Mac users are too busy looking for jobs. :D Just kidding.

I think there would probably be a Mac version or maybe the "PC" version is just fancy talk for "computer"

lmfao that first line killed me.

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 04:02 PM
Please don't repeat information that's literally years out of date. As of this past October, they're were at almost 14% (http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apples-mac-gains-share-as-u.s.-pc-sales-drop). And there are far more gamers on the platform than you think, they just don't get much in the way of games because of biased outdated thinking like that 4% nonsense.

I'm actually shocked you said that without the slightest bit of research, given how you're usually more meticulous about things than that.

Yeah, 14% is still less than Windows, but it's steadily increasing, as are other platforms. If it was a platform that didn't make money, there would be no games on it at all.

and i will point out to you the world is bigger then the US, given it was the latest figures i could for global market, at short notice (2008), (wasnt that desperate because i knew it wasnt far off) its only at 7%

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Lucid
03-21-2013, 04:12 PM
and i will point out to you the world is bigger then the US, given it was the latest figures i could for global market, at short notice (2008), (wasnt that desperate because i knew it wasnt far off) its only at 7%

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0


I would like to just quote this, so the point gets further solidified.

As for porting, I have no idea what this title is written in from tier to tier... so I wouldn't begin to assume the resources required to port it to Mac.

ZombieTech
03-21-2013, 04:18 PM
Pardon me if this has already been said... but couldn't a Mac user still run it with a Windows emulator? Something like Parallels? :confused:

(Similar to what most of us Linux geeks have to do with either emulating or porting...)

EDIT: Or as I just scrolled and saw somebody mention Boot Camp... indeed. :p

On a side note...


Windows 7: 44.55%
Windows XP: 38.99%
OS X: 7.15%
Windows Vista: 5.17%
Windows 8: 2.79%
Other: 2.11%
Linux : 1.21%

^ I love this, and seriously too. Love the fact it points out that there are still several, almost just as many, that use WinXP as there are Win7 users. Which I still find ironically funny that MS refuses to support XP anymore, nor allow XP to have DX10 support. I mean, even myself, a hardcore geek, I dual-boot Windows XP and Ubuntu/Linux. I even had Vista at one point, and purposely wiped it out and reformatted with the soul purpose of going back to WinXP.

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 04:19 PM
Pardon me if this has already been said... but couldn't a Mac user still run it with a Windows emulator? Something like Parallels? :confused:

(Similar to what most of us Linux geeks have to do with either emulating or porting...)

yes they can, and from people who use it say it does work.

i think some apple people have objection to being forced to use it. im sure they can explain better why

ZombieTech
03-21-2013, 04:25 PM
yes they can, and from people who use it say it does work.

i think some apple people have objection to being forced to use it. im sure they can explain better why

Well, I can understand that. Similar to how I have objection with how Microsoft has monopolized the PC/Mac/Computer market so that Microsoft is the standard that everything is written for now. Back in the day, things used to release in Windows, Mac, even Linux versions. I'd honestly love it if I could run everything 100% natively in Linux... but alas, the corporate giant Microsoft has taken the throne, and as such, we "minority users" need to learn to adapt, emulate, port, and work around. :cool:

(Further proof Microsoft has monopolized... used to be computer/networking-based certifications were generalized for all systems, all specs... now most, even bare-bones A-Plus certifications have tied in Microsoft specifics... which I do find quite odd.)

Psychometrics
03-21-2013, 04:41 PM
lol 12% isn't a large percent and 50% of apple users are getting the phone and their ipod.

ZombieTech
03-21-2013, 04:45 PM
lol 12% isn't a large percent and 50% of apple users are getting the phone and their ipod.

Erm, I'd have to think the "phone" and "ipod" point would be rather moot, since they can be used by anybody, and even easily docked into a Windows OS platform. :o

Dead_Phoenix
03-21-2013, 04:57 PM
lol 12% isn't a large percent and 50% of apple users are getting the phone and their ipod.

given its actually 7%. but thats Mac's alone. windows is 91%

Portabella
03-21-2013, 06:19 PM
lol 12% isn't a large percent and 50% of apple users are getting the phone and their ipod.

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/gartner_4Q12_us_trend.png

No, it's not just iOS devices, as the above chart demonstrates with respect to Mac sales. While there is truth that many new Mac users purchased an iPhone or iPod as their first Apple product, there is a definite trend that these devices are generally the first of many. In my experience in the computer retail space, this conforms to the kinds of people I see buying Macs every day.

As the past 6 years of Mac sales clearly indicate, their popularity is definitely on the rise. What confounds this, however, (and was originally pointed out in my earlier posts), is the shift of consumers to rule out PC purchases altogether and opt for one computer per household, and replacing older computers with tablets. This means that software developers need to somehow integrate tablet-based apps into their deployment in order to stay on the cusp of user attraction and retention.

As an example, Mass Effect had a mobile game that one could download and play, and while it was not a full version of the game, what you did in the mobile version directly impacted what you did in the XBox version. World of Warcraft has a mobile app that allows you to use the auction house, view your characters, and talk to guild mates through the app. While tablets may not have the power (yet) to play full-blown games like their computer and console counterparts, we're not that far off, and will likely see this capability within this decade.

That said, we now turn to tablet popularity. Again, I can post more statistics, but Apple has dominated in this market. Couple that with the rise in popularity of Mac sales, and you have the basis of my argument. Like it or hate it, the market is shifting.

Sources: http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/14/apple-maintains-third-place-in-u-s-pc-sales-for-4q-2012/

Portabella
03-21-2013, 06:51 PM
yes they can, and from people who use it say it does work.

i think some apple people have objection to being forced to use it. im sure they can explain better why

Both Bootcamp and Virtualization (eg. Parallels, VMWare, etc.) are indeed options, but here are the Pros & Cons:

Bootcamp

Pros: Runs optimally according to system specs as it is a dedicated install, and Apple provides all drivers with recommended updates for you, so you should never have out of date or impossible to locate drivers for your Windows installation.

Cons: Requires you to completely re-log your system, which prevents you from having access to all other applications on your Mac including email, stored bookmarks in your browser, installed applications on your Mac client. Should you need to use anything in MacOS such as check your calendar, refer to an email urgently, perform a quick task at home for work, etc., you have to:

1. Log out of your game,
2. Reboot into Mac OS
3. Do what you need to do
4. Relog back into Windows
5. Relaunch the game

By this point of course, your teammates have long since left you behind... and your reputation for reliability is tarnished). Clearly, for those of us who are often interrupted by real life, this is not an option.

Bootcamp is not an option for Mac Users who do not have sufficient HD space to run a full copy of Windows plus the game client (with sufficient space left over for Windows' memory intensive "extras" which the average user don't bother to disable... or even know how to). Generally a minimum of 80GB is required.

That leaves...

Virtualization (eg. Parallels, VMWare)

This runs a copy of Windows as if it were a program within MacOS. You are literally running two operating systems at this point, using up your system resources to do so. There are also a number of funky driver issues with software that tend to happen, like the mouse not functioning properly (delays, spinning environments, etc.). This is largely caused by the software that you are running (eg. the game itself), rather than the Operating System. You may experience a problem in one game, but not in another. It is largely unpredictable and unreliable, and the hit to many Mac systems is enough to render a game unplayable (poor frame rates, lack of hardware function, etc.).

Again, you would require sufficient HD space to run your virtualization software, a copy of Windows, and then your game client.

There is actually a third option, but this is better employed when the game developer controls the deployment...

Cider Port

One of the alternatives many Mac and Linux users have opted for to run Windows-based applications without having to run Windows itself is by using Cider Port software, like Wineskin. It requires a substantial grasp of technical understanding, and is not for those who don't have a basic command of following detailed technical instructions. It also requires a fair amount of "fudging" to get things working properly, and without sufficient support from the software developer (of the application you are trying to run), it comes with a number of stability and reliability problems particularly when software is patched.

This is why it is preferred at the very least by consumers that software developers create their own Cider Ports. It will still create a reduction in overall application performance than if it were a dedicated Mac client, but if this is not an option, it is a preferred alternative.

ZombieTech
03-21-2013, 07:57 PM
Both Bootcamp and Virtualization (eg. Parallels, VMWare, etc.)

VMWare = yum, and yes. WMWare rocks! :cool:

Wraethrax
03-31-2013, 08:51 PM
VMWare = yum, and yes. WMWare rocks! :cool:

The beta was unplayable for me using Windows XP and VMWare Fusion. I've played a bunch of games through it and have always run into problems, most of them game breakers. Great for non games though.

I was hoping to use Crossover (uses WINE) to play Defiance, but I haven't found it to be helpful with what I want to play. Most playable games I like have native Mac clients. I don't know if I'd have more luck with VMWare if I ran Windows 7, but I'm not about to drop the cash on it. Might be Boot Camp for me or nothing at all...

Senel
03-31-2013, 08:56 PM
Its not possible to play video games on a mac, silly goose!

Wraethrax
03-31-2013, 09:01 PM
Its not possible to play video games on a mac, silly goose!

I play a bunch, with great success. :)

rathb18
03-31-2013, 09:04 PM
I play a bunch, with great success. :)

And half the frames of a pc with similar specs. But no serious Mac's are not made to play games on since they don't have DirectX they only use OpenGL and well 99% of games are made using DX.

Dagbiker
03-31-2013, 09:06 PM
Pardon me if this has already been said... but couldn't a Mac user still run it with a Windows emulator? Something like Parallels? :confused:

(Similar to what most of us Linux geeks have to do with either emulating or porting...)

EDIT: Or as I just scrolled and saw somebody mention Boot Camp... indeed. :p

On a side note...

^ I love this, and seriously too. Love the fact it points out that there are still several, almost just as many, that use WinXP as there are Win7 users. Which I still find ironically funny that MS refuses to support XP anymore, nor allow XP to have DX10 support. I mean, even myself, a hardcore geek, I dual-boot Windows XP and Ubuntu/Linux. I even had Vista at one point, and purposely wiped it out and reformatted with the soul purpose of going back to WinXP.

Windows XP is probably grouped together with windows server 2000 and windows ME because those run on the same kernal.

Senel
03-31-2013, 09:13 PM
I play a bunch, with great success. :)

Using a mac i don't think it could be considered playing more like enduring. lol

(all jokes by the way)

Wraethrax
03-31-2013, 09:30 PM
Using a mac i don't think it could be considered playing more like enduring. lol

(all jokes by the way)

Admittedly, I'm not a huge gamer. Respectable, but not too intense. Borderlands 2, SC 2, WoW, Diablo 3... All run smooth like butter on my MacBook Pro. In fact, when I switched from desktop PC to the MacBook, I saw better performance and graphics. Granted, the desktop wasn't a gaming rig, but I don't really need one. Anyway, it suiting me pretty well so far. I'm enjoying my Mac experience more than I ever did my Windows experience. As mentioned in other threads though, I'm a professional. :P

Mechman
03-31-2013, 09:37 PM
OP:

Why don't you just set up boot camp on your MAC and buy a used copy of Windows XP for $30.00 or so?

Senel
03-31-2013, 09:38 PM
Admittedly, I'm not a huge gamer. Respectable, but not too intense. Borderlands 2, SC 2, WoW, Diablo 3... All run smooth like butter on my MacBook Pro. In fact, when I switched from desktop PC to the MacBook, I saw better performance and graphics. Granted, the desktop wasn't a gaming rig, but I don't really need one. Anyway, it suiting me pretty well so far. I'm enjoying my Mac experience more than I ever did my Windows experience. As mentioned in other threads though, I'm a professional. :P

Whoa enjoying the mac experience more than windows? Hold your tongue you heretic! lol

Valethar
03-31-2013, 09:40 PM
LOL @ all the clueless trolls in this thread.

rathb18
03-31-2013, 09:43 PM
Admittedly, I'm not a huge gamer. Respectable, but not too intense. Borderlands 2, SC 2, WoW, Diablo 3... All run smooth like butter on my MacBook Pro. In fact, when I switched from desktop PC to the MacBook, I saw better performance and graphics. Granted, the desktop wasn't a gaming rig, but I don't really need one. Anyway, it suiting me pretty well so far. I'm enjoying my Mac experience more than I ever did my Windows experience. As mentioned in other threads though, I'm a professional. :P

A "professional"? haha, and what "professional" things can you do on a MAC that a PC can't do?

Tyryt
03-31-2013, 09:45 PM
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=9&qpaf=&qpcustom=Mac&qpcustomb=0

This is historical data and not based on sales, but actual houses, sales dont' mean anything if it's the same people buying 'updated' products year after year as Apple likes to do. Clearly, saying that apple market penetration is 'steadily growing' and 'on the rise' is grossly overstating it (~3% in the last 5 years). They may be SELLING more "devices", but it's mostly to the same people that already have them. A tablet != computer. It's not that macs, in and of themselves are any weaker than a comparable PC. It's the company that's always been killing mac sales. And no, they arn't gaming systems. Yes there are some games that run on them, but seriously, the PS Vita has more titles.... (especially if we aren't talking about 'casual' games).

Skeety
03-31-2013, 09:53 PM
It's not an Apple but it costs a bunch! It's also unique in the market right now.
The Razer Edge Pro (here's a review (http://www.cnet.com/laptops/razer-edge-pro-core/4505-3121_7-35561052.html) by CNET, and so is the below picture of it)
I'm thinking about getting one, it should play Defiance and most other games just fine!
828

Wraethrax
03-31-2013, 10:05 PM
A "professional"? haha, and what "professional" things can you do on a MAC that a PC can't do?

*Pretentious ****** alert* I do Doctor things. *Alert over* I actually never said a PC couldn't do my 'professional' things. It was a little joke from another thread where people seem to assume PC/Windows users are 'gamers' and Mac/OSX users are 'professionals'. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but most small business owners I know, and I know a lot, use Mac/OSX. Maybe we're all too simple to use Windows? :)

Dagbiker
03-31-2013, 10:20 PM
Reguardless of your market percentage, Apple is not doing much to help. Windows is a software that can be installed on almost any machine. The Apple os can only be installed on a Mac.
This allows me to get a laptop for 300$ and build a Desktop with third party parts, not made by Microsoft for 800$ as opposed to the price i would have payed for a single Mac, which is only sold by Apple.
I am not saying Mac is worse then PC, I have never owned one, Im just saying this is the reason why more people have Windows then Apple.

Landshark
03-31-2013, 10:22 PM
I'm kind of jumping into this thread with blinders on, but last I checked Windows OS accounts for about 85% of all installed OS's world-wide. I always find that stat interesting when people ask why game company XYZ hasn't made a linux or mac version of software ABC.

rathb18
03-31-2013, 10:23 PM
Reguardless of your market percentage, Apple is not doing much to help. Windows is a software that can be installed on almost any machine. The Apple os can only be installed on a Mac.
This allows me to get a laptop for 300$ and build a Desktop with third party parts, not made by Microsoft for 800$ as opposed to the price i would have payed for a single Mac, which is only sold by Apple.
I am not saying Mac is worse then PC, I have never owned one, Im just saying this is the reason why more people have Windows then Apple.

Actually I installed OSX snow leopard or something like that on a PC I built for a friend of mine. With the right skills OSX can run on any computer hardware. But I still prefer windows 8 and have never used OSX besides in the early 90's I had an Apple 2.

JustAHermit
03-31-2013, 10:47 PM
My girlfriend used to only have an Apple but she met me and I'm like, "Yo, get a gaming PC." She got a gaming desktop. Five months later... she's selling her MacBook Pro for a Asus G55 gaming laptop.~

I mean, I'm not resentful of MAC's but I think we'd have a better chance of seeing it on Linux over MAC. It'd be nice to get it on MAC though (I know a few people who still use it) seeing how it'd increase player base but mehhh :/ Still, I think linux is still more likely.

Dagbiker
03-31-2013, 11:32 PM
Actually I installed OSX snow leopard or something like that on a PC I built for a friend of mine. With the right skills OSX can run on any computer hardware. But I still prefer windows 8 and have never used OSX besides in the early 90's I had an Apple 2.

Oh, I did not know you could do that.

rathb18
03-31-2013, 11:35 PM
Oh, I did not know you could do that.

Yep, just google Hackintosh. Or here's a good guide: http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-install-os-x-mountain-lion-hackintosh-on-a-pc-tutorial/ Or something I did was installed it on VMware or Vitualbox

WarMachine
03-31-2013, 11:48 PM
Which is Better, Mac or PC.... Oh wait it doesn't matter because its not coming out for Mac. No apples in Trion's worlds.

Warlander
03-31-2013, 11:55 PM
The development time that goes into making it for mac vs how many people will play it means its just not worth it.

tuckerpb
04-01-2013, 12:12 AM
buy a pc, don't buy a pc. buy a mac, don't buy a mac.
it all comes down to how bad you want to play.
If you do not like using that boot program to play a windows game on a mac. then program a better program.



like the old saying goed. build a better mouse trap and the world will come to you.

Nelson2011
04-01-2013, 12:16 AM
Wow someone had to rally up the pc master race lol got bored of the pc vs console wars? :p

GT3000
04-01-2013, 12:17 AM
I'm sure it's been said here before and if not, dual boot Windows 7. It's not that hard.

Ataraxia
04-01-2013, 12:59 AM
This thread is so entertaining, You just gotta love Apple fanboys. Don't really know how you guys derailed this thread so hard, but I guess I'll join in. A Mac is not a gaming station, period. Apple might be on a constant rise market-wise, but their target audience is (excuse the stereotype) pretentious hipsters that worship the company as if Steve Jobs (may he RIP) was the god of innovation (When they use the words "innovation" and "Apple" in the same sentence it makes me giggle everytime, it's cute) and serious professionals that use it as a work station. Actual gamers don't purchase mac computers because of the very well known compatibility issues, they know better than that... the ones that do are a vast minority that represents little to no profit to the gaming industry.

Nw Akeera
04-01-2013, 01:01 AM
Macs are obsolete, unless you live in 1995

S4DN3SS
04-01-2013, 01:05 AM
Macs... They are like the Wannabes of the PC gaming Communities.

Senel
04-01-2013, 01:13 AM
LOL @ all the clueless trolls in this thread.

Awh i'm only playing everyone likes poking fun at Macs and their gaming abilities.

They're barely computers at all!

rathb18
04-01-2013, 01:17 AM
Macs are obsolete, unless you live in 1995

Exactly, Almost every school has switched to PC almost every business uses PC heck even animator and editor's use PC for there video, pic and audio work. I think the only reason Mac is still around is because of the Iphone and Ipad which well face it they don't even compare to what an android can do. And with the new Win 8 tablet's I don't even use android anymore since I can run everything I could ever want on my tablet.

Mad
04-01-2013, 03:07 AM
Developing anything for limited platforms today is folly.
True

This isn't 1999 where the Windows market rules supreme and anything else is irrelevant minority.
1999 = top of line maxed out gameing liquid cooled PC no OS with monitor and peripherals approx 2300 USD OS cost 100-500USD
Top of line Mac ^4000USD


People buy computers and devices for convenience, and that includes everything they do with these devices (NOT just games).
True

That said, developers should be factoring Tablets into the complete gaming experience as well, whether it is simply as a game-enhancement feature or developing a game in a way where part (or all) of the game can be experienced on a tablet client. For example, imagine that you could craft on a device client, so you could focus on more robust parts of a game when playing on your computer or console?

Its a shooter .. 2 hands 1 game.. if i had third hand i would be concerned about being able to use secondary hardware to do stuff like crafting .. but why bother when its already ingame and easily accessible when i don't need 2 hands...


That said, ruling out one of the fastest growing computer and device markets is sheer laziness and demonstrates a disconnect with the consumer market...
trolololol


It's no mystery that some of the most successful game populations were built for both Mac and PC platforms.
like .. 1% or less of the ^30000 games?


Food for thought. Bootcamp is a choice, but it requires Mac users to pay Microsoft's ludicrous pricetag for an operating system that they would use for nothing more than a game or two. Consider also that dual boot or virtualized Operating Systems eat up a substantial portion of the HD, and with SSD technology being the preference moving forward for improved performance (and SSD capacity is still quite limited compared to spinning counterparts), disk space currently is precious.
hence while real gamers who are willing to risk fledgling tech like SSD also put real HD in thier systems for the extra drive space.


I prefer the OSX/iOS environment. I used to run Bootcamp, but I don't bother anymore partly for reasons listed above. Quite honestly, there is enough game variety available for the Mac to suit my needs whether through dedicated or a Cider Port client.
so .. you came here specifically to troll on about macs ...
i get it now


Anything that doesn't offer an option doesn't get my attention any further than reading the system requirements (and posting my opinion on platform deployment on a forum :).
yup trolling

I'm not the only Mac user that feels this way. I can live without a shiny new title in favour of something that supports my preferences.
So you have been very clear its not your cup of tea. Other then trolling was there an actual point to this?


I'm sure it's a wonderful game. Success will ultimately be determined by player retention and population. It's up to the game designers and developers to ensure they have a wide enough reach to make that happen for those of you who are very excited about this game.
True

.... so the general gist is your too cheap to buy a PC for gaming and you need your mac for work. I can understand that. FYI you can pick up some real nice used gaming rigs at auctions. Dell for example has a sweet business where they sell you the rig then repossess it because of some obscure contract notation and auction it off on thier website. A friend of mine actually bought a 5000USD gaming rig from them used it for 3 months, gave it back to them and paid the default.. then bought his own rig back for 150USD .. all told he paid a total of 1400USD for a 5k retail value system and only went without it for 5 weeks ...

Or kick the hubby off his machine for a couple hours each day and use his ..

Now that the troll has been stepped on .....

You have to be aware that unfortunately due to the tie-in with the TV show the developers didn't even have enough time to properly develop for the 3 platforms they did. Viewed from this perspective and the fact they are gonna be playing catchup for the next year on stuff that should have been done before the game release .. i don't forsee a mac version in the near future. I would reccomend bootcamp and picking up a secondhand copy of XP or 7 to run with it If nothing else just goto a repair shop and buy a 2 year old tower for 100$ just to get the install key for the OS download an image of the OS, then install linux on the tower :)

SIDE NOTE: mac machines are MOSTLY superior to pc's EXCEPT where games are concerned Doing animation/CGI graphics/ architectural design or just downright using it for a workhorse to crunch numbers are usually better when done on mac. But the main reason there was never aanyinterest in the gaming industry is simple .. since "Macintosh Apple" first came out it was preposterously expensive when compared to any of the competitors. After the components became cheap to manufacture the prices STILL did not go down. 20 years later same thing .. cost of manufacture/shipping/retail/tax/tarrifs etc all added up to less then 1% of retail value ... The commision i got from selling macs in late 80's was so ridiculas i could sell 2 macs and buy a PC with the commision.
In a world built of disposable everything INCLUDING operating systems .. why would you buy a mac for gaming when 3 years later you would have to buy another for the new games ...

ExcuseMyMandarin
04-01-2013, 03:13 AM
I'm sure Mac users are too busy looking for jobs. :D Just kidding.

+1

I think there would probably be a Mac version or maybe the "PC" version is just fancy talk for "computer"

Really, I don't care to much if they let mac users play the game, Mac isnt designed for gaming, neither is it specced for gaming.

But sadly enough got a few friends that do own a mac, so I will admit that it would be smart of them, as there are some mac users. But Mac does not have a lot of users. Mac is about 5% (that only own a Mac) so they might not prioritize it.

peekayboo
04-01-2013, 03:27 AM
Its going to be a year or more wait for linx,mac.64bit clients but thats the price of using mac or linx and unless you get 20,000+ mac users to say they want it's not gonna happen sooner

JohnMcClane
04-01-2013, 03:42 AM
Mac is an awesome work horse.
PC is an all rounder.

They both are superior in there own way .
Loving PC&MAC in a non emotional way ;)

Boot camp until PC Gaming gets cannibalized by Xbox than all Unix based will have a shot at the crown.

Excession
04-01-2013, 03:54 AM
I certainly seem to have gotten your attention... I so love agressive Mac haters. Obviously, you do care (or you wouldn't have bothered to post).

So tell me, why do you so hate growing the accessibility of software to include platforms other than Windows?

For the record, I could care less if I could buy this game. As stated before, I have many other options to choose from. I just love putting in my 2 cents every time a software company fails to acknowledge market trends :)

Market Trends? really?

Units sold PC wise number in the hundreds of millions for the year, as opposed to mac units sold being in the hundreds of thousands (worldwide for both).

Taking those figures into account, how is Trion not following market trends?

If you are talking about the increase in ios use, sure, market trends show a huge increase in users of ios compared to previous years, but that is all down to mobile and pad sales, it has little, if anything to do with PC v Mac use.

Nice strawman you have though.

Guyonbench
04-01-2013, 04:07 AM
What I want to know, is why are people still complaining about macs.
Either you have bootcamp and will be playing the game on your mac, OR you have a mac AND a PC that you'll be playing the game on, OR you only have a mac and refuse to use bootcamp which leaves me wondering why your still here on the forums other then to try to stir things up.

WaGzy
04-01-2013, 04:09 AM
how do I put GIFs into a post..? I can only get the link to come up... I swear to god it's relevant to this thread

Harsk
04-01-2013, 04:11 AM
Macs are so freaking expensive that us regular folks cannot afford them, so we are stuck with PC and because we are a vast majority makes sense to make PC games instead of Mac's

Stuck with? I wouldn't take a Mac over a PC for anything.

Quirky
04-01-2013, 04:15 AM
May be an old Thread, But if you've got a Mac that's what you get for paying for an Overpriced White Box.

Macs are great for Graphics and Music, Terrible for Games.

But Still, PC's <3 I'll be enjoying Defiance on mine because I made the right Choice :)

rathb18
04-01-2013, 04:20 AM
Mac's are for people who need a basic and simple OS, windows is for people who wan't anything and everything. People are just wrong when they say mac's are best for design because back in high school I did Photoshop and 3ds max, Bryce, blender, vue 3d and tons of other programs for audio and video, and they all worked great on PC. Nobody had any issues or complained. Heck if you ever watch "the making of" video on dvd's there all using PC for 3d graphics, Even schools have completely switch to PC. I don't think I have even see a mac in the last few years, not at school, work, friends, nowhere.

slverface
05-03-2014, 06:29 AM
This was an old thread, but with the recent announcement of Defiance moving to "free play" on PC's in June I thought it was appropriate to revisit.


Mac's are for people who need a basic and simple OS, windows is for people who wan't anything and everything.

Uhhh - Wrong.

I've used both for decades (I started on a DEC PDP-11;first "PC" was a TI9-4; got one of the first IBM PC clones made, when Bill Gates used to visit the Orange County Computer Club).

I was a die-hard, "Macs are for wimps" PC/Windows-only guy for years until I was *given* a fairly new iMac by a neighbor to use while he was out of the country. And after a month I sold my Windows machine and never looked back.

Mac users have ...except for games...most of the same software as Windows users EXCEPT utilities and scores of virus protection systems. Why? Because Macs don't NEED the same kind of virus protection. In over 20 years, the total count of Mac viruses is about 50 (all prior to Mac OS X). There are thousands for Windows.

And in OS X the total virus count is ZERO. A few trojans, but extremely rare and primarily in the developer circles - or among those using Boot Camp (a POS) or one of the other Windows emulators (which, by the way, are extremely slow and unsuitable for Windows game use. Unless you like "Pong".)

So you Windows folks get to spend money on bloated, drive hogging software such as antivirus protection and scads of utilities to keep your systems in order (usually to no avail - the blue screen of death is a FAR more common Windows occurrence than in OS X, and when you're rebooting if a piece of commercial software locks up on you we simply "force close" the offender - and on Macs it's freeware and shareware, not commercial stuff, which in my experience (running networks and fixing problems) is far more problem-free on Macs (even Office, probably THE most troublesome piece of OS X software ever written, has less problems on a Mac that a Windows system (that's not opinion - it's fact).

Yes, you can buy a cheap Windows machine for less money than a Mac - but Macs have a more robust build (covered in computer publications), a FAR lower failure rate (again, the result of published, well-known studies), and have a longer life cycle (meaning that in he long run a Mac is actually CHEAPER over a 6 to 10-year ownership period).

A couple more goodies - Macs come stock with fully-functional Office-compatible Word Processing, spreadsheet and desktop publishing software PLUS photo processing software, a completely functional recording studio and several other things Windows users HAVE to buy to make the computer a useful tool - and once you add all ThOSE costs the Mac is even less expensive.

And the kicker - what software you DO buy for the Mac can normally be loaded on at least 4 or 5 machines, if not more. Windows software publishers HAVE started opening up a "2 copy" (one desktop, one laptop) licensing program, but not commonly "buy once for the whole family".

And, of course, when it comes to professional studio recording and graphics systems it's not even close. Yes, Protools in now available for Windows - but not all the plugins, which are essential. And Logic, the other common Professional studio software, is Mac-only. Sony Acid, the most popular professional Windows studio site, has a tiny market share.

The Mac market keeps growing with the compatibility & cross/platform functions between Desktop, laptop, tablet and cell phone systems, all of which run some version of the same thing when it comes to basic day-to-day software - including "cloud" updates of all of the above when a change is made on one (and invisible, low overhead backup as well).

I understand Windows use in the business environment - it's been the most prevalent system for decades, and changing platforms is a major undertaking. But with the ability to run Windows on Macs via several add-ons (Boot Camp being the worst of the lot)there's a paradigm shift in process, and Apple has been gaining market share steadily as accounting departments have analyzed immediate "ready for business/fully loaded" hardware/software costs AND long-term lifecycle costs.

Macs simply cost less to operate, are just as powerful, have zero virus problems, far fewer mechanical defects, and are far easier to run and maintain for the end user. And when training costs/operating costs/down time are factored in that's where you see companies shifting to Macs.

So it's going to make sense for game vendors to wake up and smell the coffee. The "PC Gamer" is losing his/her Windows PC for other reasons, and is either being forcibly or willingly shifted to a Mac.

I don't play "computer games" - I am an XBox 360 guy. But give me Defiance and other games I regularly play on a Mac and that's where I'll spend most of my time.

I do find it interesting how Windows users have shifted - they used to be in a position of power and "dismissed" Macs as "soccer mom" computers. Mac users had to defend themselves.

But the shift is huge - Mac users are (even with a smaller market share) in the driver's seat, and Windows users are seen as computer geeks who are constantly having to be on the defensive. I predict one of two more worldwide/mass virus outbreaks and there will be an exodus.

And no, I don't work for nor am I related to anyone who works for a computer or software manufacturer. I'm just a common user...albeit one who has worked on both network development and hardware troubleshooting/repair...who has, in the last 5 years, undergone a complete shift from Windows to Macs - simply by being loaned one and deciding to try it for at least a week. In 7 days of steady use I was done with Windows except for the stray program I needed to grab data from to shift it to Mac-ready.

Hopefully the game companies will start shifting soon - anything written for a Windows platform should be reasonably easy to port since Intel processors are a commonality. And nothing against Windows users - I just think they should be ready to shift or they'll find themselves swimming upstream...

Murzin
05-03-2014, 10:46 AM
Portabella:

here is a few things you need to keep in mind.

keyboard: 1999
main mouse: 1999
speakers: 1999
2nd mouse: 2004
monitor: 2009
computer case: 2005
PSU: 2011 ( the one i bought in 2005 was damaged while driving 12 hours in my car )
HDs: 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014 ( most of them are unplugged as they are holding archival data )
cpu: 2008
mobo: 2008
ram: 2012 ( upgraded my ram from 8gb to 16gb )
gpu: 2013 ( my old 8800 GTX overheated so bought a cheapie $120 640, will upgrade when 680s drop in price )

try doing that with a mac.

the simple fact is you wont see a lot of users in your typical best buy/circuit city/wal-mart/geek squad/ etc stores. how PCs usually go, when a component fails, you replace it with a newer one. you generally dont see people buying whole PC computers from a local store very frequently for windows.

or if you do, its the old grandmas or grandpas who dont already have one, or every few years just buy these prebuilt computers.

and for the people at work, we are IT specialists, so we know about computers and technology. even the "non-IT" people at work will go into a mom+pop store and have them build a computer given the parts list we provide for them for their home use. not a pre-built store. and for laptops? those are usually ordered from an online vendor and then shipped. not your brick and mortar store.

what you are doing is complaining about games sales for PCs dropping drastically since 2005 in stores, and then forgetting that places like newegg/amazon sell boxes and do not report, or digital release platforms like steam and even the game producers offering online sale option.

hint: PC Game sales are very large, they just slowed down a lot in the brick and mortar retail locations and moved to mail services or digital distribution.


another thing. i hate the business practices of wal-mart. they are very destructive to the american economy. people are just too stupid to see the myriad of reasons why. but a big one is they pay very low wages, and over 75% of their sales volume in any given year is from imported goods.

as of right now, it is may 3rd. so far this year i have stepped into a wal-mart 2 times, and each time it was to buy DVD/Blu-Rays. thats it. i have spent less than $100 at wal-mart this year.

why did i bring up wal-mart? because i really hate them.

to a lesser degree i hate apple. but you could assume i hate apple more as i have spent $0 on apple products since at least 2002-2003. the only reason i use iTunes is that i buy multi-format blu-ray movies/tv shows. i really like the versions with the digital copies. i prefer to redeem my digital copies on amazon instant video. next up is a ultra-violet service. dead last option? iTunes. so far i have 2 titles in my iTunes collection that i was not able to use any other redemption service with.

this is over their long history of using proprietary hardware/standards, and it still continues to this day. they have gotten slightly better over the years.

and apple security? its a joke. apple is the epitome of "security by obscurity" which is not security. and here is another thing. apple products are fully endorsed and recommended by the NSA. the iphone 1 they had a 5% failure to hack and gain root access within 15 minutes. ever since the iphone 1, they have had 100% success. android they have a better than 75% if wi-fi or bluetooth is turned on, less than 5% if they are turned off. windows gets a lot more complicated. firefox/internet explorer/safari, they are 100% to hack, opera 12.16 and previous is under 2%, after 12.16 they moved to the firefox backend which brought them back to 100%, and chrome is i think somewhere around 25% to hack. but there really is no need to hack a chrome browser computer because its google, and google gives everything to the NSA anyway.

and pro tip: safari = apple UI on mozilla back-end so safari = apples UI on top of firefox.

that NSA stuff was pretty interesting when it was discovered in the leaks by snowden.

oh, and those XP usage numbers, those will actually stop being the government, as the US government has to transition to windows 7 by 10/2014. so after 10/2014 any XP OS numbers will be pure home users. the UK government bought a support contract that allows them to use XP until april or may 2015.

TL:DR:

apple products suck, and their security is a joke.

Synther
05-03-2014, 06:22 PM
I'm sure Mac users are too busy looking for jobs.

I LOL'd pretty hard at that. Hipsters are funny.

Benaiah
05-03-2014, 07:27 PM
I doubt it comes to mac. Rift is the main game for Trion and it's not on Mac and that's their flagship game. I just don't see them crossing defiance over into the mac world before they would put Rift on it. BTW, Rift is a great game.

slverface
05-04-2014, 07:04 AM
Yeah, I grasp the realities - if they haven't ported their flagship to OS X it's doubtful they'd port Defiance first. So I guess I'm still in the "pay to play" XBox Gold group.

My previous post was intended to provide a little more realistic view of the Mac world; Windows-only users with little Mac experience tend to dismiss Macs as "soccer mom" and music platform systems only - I know because I *was* exactly like that! I thought they were a sort of "training wheels" computer for people who don't really want to use computers. Until I got my second one, actually (my first was one of the early little B/W integrated monitor boxes, and I was NOT impressed. It was the "bubble" iMac that changed my mind. The market has also shifted even more in an Apple direction since this thread was started.

I also wanted to clear up the misconception (also something I wholeheartedly believed several years ago) regarding bottom-line cost of a fully-loaded (i.e. with "real" software) machine. That's where Windows-only users just don't "get it" (I certainly didn't, until I bought my first new Mac & discovered I needed to buy software only if I wanted to upgrade my recording studio and image-processing software - because all the essentials were included, not just an operating system and horribly crippled desktop "Suite" i.e. the oft-deleted...for good reason...Microsoft Works).

I'm sure Windows gamers just think I'm trying to inject Valium into their Red Bull IV's, but nope - just laying out the real world.

(But I DO wish Apple could make iPad screens that didn't shatter if you look at 'em wrong - I've used up my 2-screen replacement extended warranty limit within the first 9 months on 3 iterations of iPads I've owned!)

crazyged
05-06-2014, 09:23 AM
Arguments about Mac VS PC always make me smile.

It's like arguing Evolution VS Religion!

I cut my teeth on a Mac, way back when it had a massive 40mb drive (NOT a typo) and a black and white screen.

I worked on Macs for years (I have worked on every OS) and derided PCs as inferior....

...That is, until I bought my own PC...

I can build a PC that will out-perform any Mac, for a quarter of the price.

I LIKE the fact that its modular design can allow me to swap out parts at a moments notice, and that I can build a complete multimedia machine. My PC at home is hooked up to 3 screens, one being my LED TV. I play anything from games to bluray with surround on that lovely 46" screen.

I'm working in an office where I have the only PC amongst a sea of macs, and where they are constantly quitting out of Adobe apps with no warning, my little ol' PC just chugs along and laughs at massive graphics files... Even the Mac users here are constantly asking if they can get their systems replaced with PCs.

Steve Jobs spent way too much time demanding form over function - Macs may look pretty, but as far as I'm concerned, their bragging rights to being the ultimate graphics workstation are long gone...

Gimme my ugly desktop that actually does exactly what I want it to do anytime!

I will say that I enjoyed playing Marathon on the Mac though... One of the first dual wielder FPSs as far as I remember...

AlyssaSammi
05-06-2014, 03:48 PM
Macs aren't for gaming.

ConcreteSnake
05-06-2014, 06:37 PM
Duel-Boot!