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View Full Version : Honest feedback about post-DLC "fun" and gameplay



Yokai
08-22-2013, 07:26 PM
1600 EGO, 20 Skill in LMG, 5-10 skill in most other weapons, 260 hours played.

In a word, everything feels too sluggish and grindy now after the patch. As in "not really fun any more, but just grindy and boring"

Why?

Primarily, because of the SAW nerf. You didn't just nerf the damage to 75% versus before, but you also made bloom and recoil far worse, so more bullets miss than before at mid/long range.

Secondarily, the Volge emergencies are way too arduous given the choice of damage output you have. Doesn't matter if you use SAW/SAW, SAW/Bug, or any combination of the highest dps SMGs or ARs or grenade launchers, etc. They're just too grindy to wear down, and they give terrible rewards for the effort spent.

Thirdly, you made access to the new Charge Blade weapon GATED by either mandatory solo-only rep grinding in the arenas, or by extremely rare chance drops from lockboxes. What the hell were you thinking? Did you forget that you built this game not to be a single player shooter, not even to be a co-op shooter, but to be a _massive_ shooter? It was bad enough that you already had too much single-player only content (challenges and some episode and main storyline mission segments), but at least the challenges can be skipped because they don't gate you from any important content. But to GATE the most desirable new weapon type in this manner? Seriously, WTF?

The new DM arkfall is nice, and the Volge seige is nice, but only because you have a bazillion other players to compensate for the generally lower DPS rate now.

My main question is this: why nerf the "fun" or "dependable" weapons and generally reduce the fun factor? OP isn't a bad thing: ask Gearbox (Borderlands X) or Volition/Deep Silver (Saints Row X). They understand that it's fine to have more than a few weapons that stand out above the others.

Oh, right, PvP, you say? Bah. Why not have separate stats for what goes on in PvP? I'm personally sick of game after game killing the PvE fun and experience in the name of PvP balance nerfing.

Angeleus09
08-22-2013, 09:42 PM
I wasn't really a fan of the SAW nerf, but it hasn't bothered me as much as I thought it would. I've actually gotten quite attached to this purple VBI LM-12 Rocker I picked up after modding it up to stabilize it and give it a bigger clip. Liking another LMG besides the SAW???? Whodathunkit?

The thing with the SAW was that you didn't need to use any other gun while you had it equipped and while I know a lot of people liked that it didn't really give them any incentive to explore different tactics or play styles that using different guns requires. When I heard they were nerfing the SAW I started using other guns a lot more and was surprised how completely dependent on the SAW my entire play style was.

It was kind of depressing to realize that as it stood, if I didn't have the SAW I got owned 90% of the time. I've become a lot more proficient with ARs and pistols in the meantime and have found some other guns I really enjoy using such as the Rocker, the HAC, Wolfhound, Mass Canon and as of today, the Volge Mk 1 LMG. Holy crap can that thing hit! I went to Iron Demon Ranch as soon as I got it and modded it up to add some clip space and falloff damage etc. then tested it out on the Volge emergency just outside the gates. I think I've found my Volge hunting gun.

Youkai Risu
08-22-2013, 10:11 PM
Hey we get pretty similar names ! I was like wait I didn't post here haha

ll Ham Solo ll
08-22-2013, 11:24 PM
Wow... this thread is poppin. :rolleyes:

Yokai
08-23-2013, 06:35 AM
It was kind of depressing to realize that as it stood, if I didn't have the SAW I got owned 90% of the time.

Quoting you out of context to highlight how this one statement right here is exactly what I'm talking about in the OP.

Before, the SAW was the "great equalizer" in general PvE play for many people who weren't great sniper types with the Wolfhound, or who didn't want to spam the "noob tubes" of Defiance (the one good grenade launcher). The damage rate and accuracy/range of the SAW enabled even casual players to be able to run through co-ops and most missions at an enjoyable, fast pace. But more importantly, when the going got tough, such as at Dark Matter open world missions, Dark Matter emergencies, and certainly at Volge emergencies, the SAW was the weapon you could trust to get you through a suddenly difficult situation.

Even when the Volge emergencies were first introduced near the end of the TV season, they were pretty hard even with the SAW in its pre-nerf state. They were grindy and slow even then. But the reward was worth the grind. Now? They're MUCH grindier because the SAW is really no better than any other weapon, and it's showing how in general ALL weapons are underpowered and generally slow and mushy to play with. Oh sure, the better SMGs and ARs do nice burst damage. I love me a VOT Blaster or a TachMag Pulsar or even a VBI SMG, etc. They're great. For about 3 seconds until they run out of ammo and they take forever to reload because your constant dodging to avoid dying out right keeps interrupting the reload cycle.

See, with the clip and DPS of SAWs pre-nerf, when you were really getting chewed up by lots of enemies with no good cover, you could dodge > shoot > dodge > shoot and whittle them down one by one. Now? You can still do that with the nerfed SAW but it's just too freaking slow and grindy now. And with any other weapon that can actually output good DPS, it's more like shoot > dodge > dodge > dodge > run a bit to FINALLY reload > shoot > dodge > dodge > dodge > dodge > dodge > run to reload > die.

This isn't "fun". This isn't "exciting". It's just a boring grind. And for what? The Volge emergencies don't reward crap now, and they're way too hard to use for leveling up off-weapons.

Here's another way of looking at it:

When Defiance launched, you had a LOT of great weapon choices and the play was fast paced and fun, even for casual players.

They they nerfed Infectors and Shotguns because of PvP. Well, that did suck because both guns were great in PvE too, but hey, we still had SAWs and grenade launchers, if you could stomach them. And Wolfhounds for the sniper types (but many players can't do squat with Wolfhounds). Point being, we still had go-to weapons that kept the game play fast paced and enjoyable.

Now? Not only have SAWs been seriously nerfed (leaving only grenade launchers and Wolfhounds), but I'd swear grenade launchers have been nerfed too, although honestly I haven't had the will to test them that hard to be sure.

I used to love Defiance and put in nearly 250 hours by the end of the TV season. Then they took away the fun seiges (promising to bring them back with the DLC that took foooooorrrreeeeeever), and they GREATLY reduced the spawn rate of major arkfalls (minor arkfalls are boring as hell, sorry.) There was no real incentive to log in and kill some time, especially when there are other great games out there to be played (Tiny Tina DLC for BL2, Saints Row 3 to play through again in anticipation of SR4 coming out, etc.)

I come back three days ago because the patch promised sieges again, new weapons, a new arkfall type, etc. and.... It's just flat and boring and slow and grindy. It's a slog. And the new charge blade _might_ be good and fun to try, but WHY ON EARTH Trion felt it was a smart idea to make the only viable path to obtain one (even for Season Pass holders) was to do SOLO-ONLY arena rep grinds for it? WTFOMGBBQ? This is an MMO-like game. Not just co-op but _massive_. It was bad enough before that challenges and even some storyline missions were solo only, but at least challenges are _optional_ content that do not gate any other content.

By contrast, access to the new Charge Blade is GATED by SOLO-ONLY content. Really? What kind of crack were the designers smoking when they came up with THAT brilliant idea.

Sky Bogey
08-23-2013, 06:40 AM
•Castithans are basically the same as other race, just diff aesthetics.

•The story line is the battle arenas,

•Battle arenas are now solo content.

•The Raptor is a four player vehicle, "truck of doom" is pure lies. There was originally a turret, it was removed, but it still drives like absolute junk

•Sieges are revamped versions, but less fun than the afflicted sieges

•The "Join a friend" portion of battle arenas is wrong, and another lie...

Youkai Risu
08-23-2013, 07:30 AM
•Castithans are basically the same as other race, just diff aesthetics.

•The story line is the battle arenas,

•Battle arenas are now solo content.

•The Raptor is a four player vehicle, "truck of doom" is pure lies. There was originally a turret, it was removed, but it still drives like absolute junk

•Sieges are revamped versions, but less fun than the afflicted sieges

•The "Join a friend" portion of battle arenas is wrong, and another lie...

What you expect? They (trion) lies all the time and has no clue what they are doing cause their teams are always getting fired ect.

Yokai
08-23-2013, 07:58 AM
What you expect? They (trion) lies all the time and has no clue what they are doing cause their teams are always getting fired ect.

All due respect for your grievance and what you're trying to accomplish, but I'd hate for a simple feedback thread to get locked because it gets side-tracked into a call for participants in a legal action. :/

I had hoped that this thread would be a place for people to either say "yeah, I more or less agree and here is my additional or slightly different feedback" or to say "I disagree and here's why".

See, ultimately I'm trying to help Trion improve the game and bring it back to its former state of FUN, even for casual players. This game was frankly a ton of fun at launch. A breath of fresh air in the MMO space, for certain, and a way better attempt at the shooter-MMO hybrid than was Hellgate:London or Tabula Rasa or Firefall.

I don't want to beat the dead horse of financial and staffing woes at Trion certainly being at least a partial cause for the current poor state of the game. I hope to simply focus on helping Trion understand that right now, the game is missing the mark in terms of providing what games are supposed to provide: fun. And by elaborating on what was good before and why taking it away has made the game no longer fun, perhaps we can give insight to the new dev team and project manager(s) about how to win back player enjoyment (and thereby player spending).

Slyfox2001
08-23-2013, 08:40 AM
Let's see if I can focus my thoughts for an opinionated piece here...

SAW Nerfs: I actually like the nerf to the SAW. Maybe because everyone and their dog (that I saw (exaggerated, obviously)) used it. Go to an arkfall, everyone had a SAW. They dished out far too much damage for their rate of fire and clip size. Nothing could touch it. It was OP in almost every situation (compared to most other guns). Why would anyone use any other gun? I'm pretty sure the game peeps saw this in the game's stats and thought it needed a nerf, ya know, when X% of everything is being killed or damaged by a SAW.

On another note, it probably killed (or maimed) the competitiveness of the arkfalls and co-op maps in terms of score (damage). If I can rock out my Wolfhound and do phenomenal damage getting crits with every shot, I shouldn't be "outgunned" by someone using a SAW because I have to reload every few shots, better odds of missing, etc. when Joe Schmoe over there can just pump led into targets with no real skill and eventually get more damage (no offense to people that use the SAW, but when it comes to skill for damage, pistols do require more skill, and I'm just making a point). Just an example.

I think the higher skilled weapons should deal out an average DPS higher than those that require little skill, or do something to make the balance better, for individual players. Wolfhound has awesome crit, but low mag and low fire rate. SAW does less damage, but has wicked fire rate and awesome clip size. Sawed-off (should) do high damage at close range with tiny clip size and long reload. Ya know, balance the weapons for what they are. I like the nerf to the SAW.

Do we need OP weapons? Yeah, in some games we do. Not in this type of game though. In a single-player type of game with maybe small co-op stuff (like Saints Row) it works great as it makes you feel like a champ. In this type of game though, it would take all the fun out of it for other players. What if everyone was running around with an OP gun? Nothing would last longer than 1 second, and that's already a real problem at some arkfalls. Nobody would get a piece of the pie. What about those people that hate the OP gun? They are pretty much forced to use it if they want to get anything out of the game (when others are around). Argue this as you might, but look at the loadouts for PvP and some PvE things. People will build a loadout just so they can be competitive (score wise), whether they actually like the guns/perks they are using or not.

Sure would be better if I could dual you with my Wolfhound (and subsequent skill) and put up a good challenge against you and your SAW (and less skill), or whatever combo, you get what I am saying. (And no, I'm not saying YOU have no skill, just a "you" in general, for point sake)

Volge Emergencies: Serious rhetorical question (ha!): Does everything in the game need to reward you with something? Can't an accomplishment just come from being able to do something? I realize everyone would answer this question differently, but I honestly like to take on the Volge with different weapon loadouts just to see how well I can fare... and I like the challenge of the Volge at said emergencies. For me, they don't need to drop anything. If they do, cool. If not, that's fine. I don't fight them for that. Again, personal opinion and everyone's will differ.

Sieges: I like the sieges but HATE how they scale. Do a siege with a handful of people = AWESOME. Do a siege with an a-load of people = SUCKY. The sieges do need to scale better with more people. I did an siege with 93 people and the second the Volge hit the ground, they were dead. It was ridiculous. The spawn timer for the Volge was crap too... we would wait around and 1 - 3 would spawn in an area, die in about 10 seconds, and wait wait wait again... meh...

However, smaller numbers of people at the sieges work great. People go down, teamwork is needed, turrets work great, radiation nanos are nice, etc. I don't necessarily feel that they need to be harder or have different/more "carpet" damage as the whole point of the sieges is to get to the highest round possible (hence why the spawn rates need to be quicker). I'm sure little things will be tweaked here and there as things/time progresses though. I do think that the Volge at emergencies are harder than those at the sieges (even though I was told that they were the same difficulty). Just speculation though!

Volge "Grindy:" Shouldn't this be how they are? They are walking tanks whose flesh is armor itself.........

Tekrunner
08-23-2013, 08:40 AM
I disagree and here's why :p

I don't think that the weapon situation is as bad as you're making it sound. The SAW wasn't even the most efficient weapon to kill Volges with pre-patch: it was the tachmag pulser, especially when it had a syphon nano. And while syphon did take a nerf as well, tachmags still offer an excellent combination of DPS and mobility. Combine that with a way to sludge the Volges, and you'll chew right through them.

Some other weapons are very good in PvE too: any VBI AR or Heavy Assault Carbine with good rolls, wolfhounds and blasters, charge sniper rifles... And no, grenade launchers were not nerfed, that bit is definitely patch placebo. In fact I think they do even a little better against Volges, as they make them fall on the ground easily, and the stagger duration has been increased by the patch.


My main question is this: why nerf the "fun" or "dependable" weapons and generally reduce the fun factor? OP isn't a bad thing: ask Gearbox (Borderlands X) or Volition/Deep Silver (Saints Row X).

Can't speak about Saints Row (I own the third one, but have played it too long ago), but the thing is, Borderlands does have some ridiculous guns, but it's also a much harder game than Defiance on the whole. When Tiny Tina's DLC came out, I started the game with my OP gunzerker... and got downed by the very first mob I met. I had gotten used to Defiance's easy gameplay so much that I had gotten careless. At high level in Borderlands you get killed in 2 or 3 shots, and raid bosses are almost unkillable unless you follow some precise strategies. So even with the best guns you don't completely steamroll everything, and there's still fun to be had. But imagine a slag rubi / double-penetrating unkempt harold combo in Defiance (the equivalent of a pre-patch tachmag pulser on crack). Nothing would every be challenging, and shooting things would become boring quickly. Not just for you, but also for people playing with you. That's why we need balance on guns even in PvE.

It sounds to me like you had come to rely a little too much on your SAW, and didn't play enough with other guns. Try to look for alternatives, and you'll see that things really aren't that bad.

hardy83
08-23-2013, 08:44 AM
You say charge blades are rare. I still only got that common quality bug grenade that you get from an episode quest. I have NEVER see any high quality versions drop.

Also I do wish the weapon skill level grind was faster. Like as fast as vehicles. Like get experience for just using the gun, not just killing with it.

addix
08-23-2013, 08:55 AM
I completely agree...the battle arenas are way too grindy and are mind numbingly *BORING* and tedious...especially since we were told that we would be getting a new storyline. Throw in the level of lag/glitchiness and they are damn near unbearable. it just seems like a cheap way out of offering actual content with the DLC.

(and seriously...why did it take so long if it was just an arena??)

my "go to" gun for Volge (and any other sticky situation) is my VBI assault rifle with syphon. Sure you have to reload more often, but that thing absolutely *shreds*! and the accuracy is great as it has practically zero recoil. I love that gun!

on a side note: I really wish they would make it so the smg, lmg, and ar classes didn't all use the same ammo. if I could havele an smg/ar loadout I would be one happy girl (especially for the battle arenas).

Tekrunner
08-23-2013, 09:00 AM
You say charge blades are rare. I still only got that common quality bug grenade that you get from an episode quest. I have NEVER see any high quality versions drop.

Trion never said we would ever be able to acquire other versions of that grenade.


Also I do wish the weapon skill level grind was faster. Like as fast as vehicles. Like get experience for just using the gun, not just killing with it.

That's already the case. Weapon xp = damage inflicted with the gun. Kills don't play a role in that.

hardy83
08-23-2013, 09:02 AM
Trion never said we would ever be able to acquire other versions of that grenade.

Well that sucks. lol At least a rare quality one would've been nice.

And I know the weapon skill is based on damage inflicted, I just meant I wish it was based on you using it period. Like just shooting it.
Yes that means someone could just stand and shoot in the air for 4 hours, but it would be nice. :P Especially for those REALLY slow to level weapons like BMGs.

teamshizzy
08-23-2013, 09:10 AM
If you cant kill the Volge with every weapon, you're not doing it right. Come on, try to be the bad a s s you think you are. Is it easy? No, but it's not supposed to be. It's like all the whiners that posted on the forums that the Volge needed to be nerfed, on the first day the Volge were in the game! Different weapons require different strategies. Also, this supposed to be a multiplayer game, play with friends.

Could the arenas be better? Absolutely. Originally it was supposed to be multi player arenas but for whatever reason they couldn't make it work right for this release, I'd rather have a new single player arena than nothing at all. Sure they are laggy right now, there is a difference from things being alpha tested and then having thousands of people getting on all at the same time to do the same thing. (Perfect example; how long did it take Call of Duty Elite to work? it's been almost 3 years and it still doesn't work right 100%)

The saw? Quit your bit-ching, I ran with a saw on the new Dark Matter ark fall and came in first by 500,000+ points.

Besides the lag, my only real complaint is the frequency of the sieges, I only saw 1 the first day. Only got 2 yesterday.

Rakshasa
08-23-2013, 09:11 AM
Let's see if I can focus my thoughts for an opinionated piece here...

Focus them, you did, and well. Excellent post, and not just because I happen to agree with about all of it. Especially:


Volge Emergencies: Serious rhetorical question (ha!): Does everything in the game need to reward you with something? Can't an accomplishment just come from being able to do something? I realize everyone would answer this question differently, but I honestly like to take on the Volge with different weapon loadouts just to see how well I can fare... and I like the challenge of the Volge at said emergencies. For me, they don't need to drop anything. If they do, cool. If not, that's fine. I don't fight them for that. Again, personal opinion and everyone's will differ.

I thought everyone these days knows you only play something if you've been sufficiently bribed to. This kind of comment makes me feel slightly less like some crazy old hermit gamer who still plays games for fun, for the enjoyment of the actual gameplay. And for that, I salute you.

addix
08-23-2013, 09:15 AM
And I know the weapon skill is based on damage inflicted, I just meant I wish it was based on you using it period. Like just shooting it.
Yes that means someone could just stand and shoot in the air for 4 hours, but it would be nice. :P Especially for those REALLY slow to level weapons like BMGs.

And that is exactly what a lot of people would do. I personally like that they've made the weapon skill levels fairly well boost proof. You should have to earn the skill levels (and the perks that come with them). That's just my opinion tho. :)

Slyfox2001
08-23-2013, 09:25 AM
I thought everyone these days knows you only play something if you've been sufficiently bribed to. This kind of comment makes me feel slightly less like some crazy old hermit gamer who still plays games for fun, for the enjoyment of the actual gameplay. And for that, I salute you.

Depending on your age/experiences, remember regular Nintendo games? I use Nintendo here because, I believe, they were the revolutionaries to actually getting a gaming market up and running...

Anywho, remember the days when you had X amount of lives and then game over? Or 3 continues and no more game? All of this without a "save" mode where sometimes you would leave the system on pause for a week just trying to get the time in to beat it? Where graphics weren't the forefront of the game... the story and mechanics is what kept you playing... The mechanics: how many different moves did you have for games, considering the Nintendo had two buttons!??! It was AMAZING how Nintendo was able to do what they did with so little. The games were challenging as hell.

Did I get a reward for beating Master Blaster or Contra? Nope. Matter of fact, nobody was ever there to hear about my victories either. But damn, did I feel like a champ whenever I beat something like that. And we all had that game that we would get so close on, just to fail at the end every time... rage for a minute (nothing like today's rage) and then pick 'er back up and start from the beginning.

What the hell happened to that gaming generation? *le sigh* Now we've got "noobs," rage quits and kicks and bans... I want my 80's back! Ha! Okay, small rant over. I think my princess is in another castle...

drackiller
08-23-2013, 09:33 AM
Focus them, you did, and well. Excellent post, and not just because I happen to agree with about all of it. Especially:



I thought everyone these days knows you only play something if you've been sufficiently bribed to. This kind of comment makes me feel slightly less like some crazy old hermit gamer who still plays games for fun, for the enjoyment of the actual gameplay. And for that, I salute you.
M8 , from the bottom of my heart, i salute you both, people seems to just forgot to play the games for fun.
don`t know man, i`m 43 and i just love to play games for the fun and good times they give me and nothing else.
If a game is a fail, i just move on.

addix
08-23-2013, 09:36 AM
I think my princess is in another castle...

LMAO!!!

I definitely don't miss the "no save file" days though.

*flashes back to her mom not really giving a sh*t that she was on the final level of a game when bed time rolled around* lol

Slyfox2001
08-23-2013, 09:50 AM
LMAO!!!

I definitely don't miss the "no save file" days though.

*flashes back to her mom not really giving a sh*t that she was on the final level of a game when bed time rolled around* lol

That's when you pause it and hope to hope the power doesn't cycle during the night, or you wake up to that little red power light doing the constant "blink..."

Rakshasa
08-23-2013, 09:51 AM
Depending on your age/experiences, remember regular Nintendo games? I use Nintendo here because, I believe, they were the revolutionaries to actually getting a gaming market up and running...

Heck yeah. There's a good reason "Nintendo Hard" became part of the vernacular.

I even left the house and went to arcades to put money into machines, just to play for minutes at a time. Machines with hard games specifically designed to minimize the time between quarters. No saves, limited or no continues. You got your initials up on a list, if you were good, lucky, or both. But blowing half your summer and a small fortune (for a kid) would eventually pay off in the form of being able to play the Star Wars sit-down machine for a few hours on one quarter, to the awe, amazement (and eventual frustration) of the other kids.

Rewards? Incentives? Achievements? A gamer craves not these things.


M8 , from the bottom of my heart, i salute you both, people seems to just forgot to play the games for fun.
don`t know man, i`m 43 and i just love to play games for the fun and good times they give me and nothing else.
If a game is a fail, i just move on.

You and me both, my friend. That's what it's all about.

Apologies to Yokai for the minor thread derailment, we now return to your regularly scheduled topic, already in progress. :p

JaygunJesile
08-23-2013, 09:55 AM
The problem with the volge emergencies, besides the no drops, is that nobody does them. They are not worth a Damn. The others get fought until it rolls a volge, and then nobody does it. Unless your vehicle explodes by invisible enemies. So now your whole map is full of volge emergencies, that nobody does. They need to add a timer that after 15 minutes of player inactivity, it despawns and rolls again.

Story line was bad. I mean, fighting enemies with time dialation technology was a horrible idea.

They did get the truck of doom right... this thing will kill you, from boredom. It's like a 4 cylinder semi truck.

7/9 of the charge weapons are bad. 2 of the snipers are pretty decent.

New ark fall is nice. Something done right for once. Too bad they'll nerf it because they can't help themselves.

Still can't believe that after all of this extra time they had, the dlc didn't get delivered to us in a nice package. But instead it was like your roommate coming in drunk and vomiting all over you blanket as you are sleeping.

teamshizzy
08-23-2013, 10:04 AM
M8 , from the bottom of my heart, i salute you both, people seems to just forgot to play the games for fun.
don`t know man, i`m 43 and i just love to play games for the fun and good times they give me and nothing else.
If a game is a fail, i just move on.

Well said. I still love and enjoy this game and I cant wait for the next 4 dlc packs.

Unruhe
08-23-2013, 10:22 AM
With the right ability and perk combination, it's easily possible to push pre-nerf SAW-like damage with a handful of other weapons.

The only people TRULY distraught after the SAW nerf are the people that literally did not want to think, at all, and just wanted to hold down on a trigger until they won.

That being said, I do think the SAW nerf was a little too severe (as in, it isn't worth equipping one now IMO) but in terms of sustained DPS the SAW was a bit ridiculous. Factor in Preparation so that you never actually have to reload the thing and it was insane. Trion could have just made every other weapon in the game better, or nerfed this one outlier. I'm not saying they made the correct decision, but they definitely chose the route easiest to implement.

StormRaging
08-23-2013, 10:28 AM
You say charge blades are rare. I still only got that common quality bug grenade that you get from an episode quest. I have NEVER see any high quality versions drop.

I just wish I would have paid more attention, I didn't even know that grenade was special so when I started the game and did the episode replays I most likely sold or salvaged it right away :(

Unruhe
08-23-2013, 10:32 AM
Thirdly, you made access to the new Charge Blade weapon GATED by either mandatory solo-only rep grinding in the arenas, or by extremely rare chance drops from lockboxes. What the hell were you thinking? Did you forget that you built this game not to be a single player shooter, not even to be a co-op shooter, but to be a _massive_ shooter? It was bad enough that you already had too much single-player only content (challenges and some episode and main storyline mission segments), but at least the challenges can be skipped because they don't gate you from any important content. But to GATE the most desirable new weapon type in this manner? Seriously, WTF?My buddy bought the DLC because he really wanted to be an albino. I skipped it because the paid portions did seem lackluster. Even something as simple as having Co-Op in the Arena would have probably sold me; I don't do MMOs to play in an instance by myself.

HOWEVER, describing the charge blade as "gated by rep grinding" is absolutely false. You get that Rep based on arena completion (in addition the contracts offered) and by the time my buddy had played through "story" missions related to the arena, he already had enough rep for the purple blade. I think it took him less than 2 hours from start to finish.

The only difference between the purple blade and the exorbitantly expensive orange blade is that the orange one does 7% more charge-up damage. That's it. It does the same normal swing damage, and does the same jump attack damage. In other words, the orange blade is absolutely not worth the effort, and the purple one is basically free so long as you just play through the missions offered by purchasing the DLC.

Tamsin
08-23-2013, 10:42 AM
I am enjoying the game. I don't usually play shooters, but this one has enough other elements and storyline to keep it interesting for me. DLC specific: I am enjoying the new arkfalls; I really like the seiges; haven't tried the arena yet (I am not fond of the solo content, although I understand it might appeal to some players); I tried my first Shadow War and was totally confused (yes I know these are not new to the DLC just easier to get into), I am definately willing to try it again.

The reason I posted to this thread was I wanted to mention duals. I think they are an underated and under mentioned part of PvP. I did a couple with a friend. Had great fun. I can't wait to do more and in different locations. I can see them keeping me amused for a long time in between content. If I had more free time right now i would start a duelling club clan. If anyone has a group out there that plan on utilizing this feature regularly let me know. I may not be a whole lot of competition yet, but I am having fun learning.

Yokai
08-23-2013, 10:52 AM
I disagree and here's why :p

I don't think that the weapon situation is as bad as you're making it sound. The SAW wasn't even the most efficient weapon to kill Volges with pre-patch: it was the tachmag pulser, especially when it had a syphon nano. And while syphon did take a nerf as well, tachmags still offer an excellent combination of DPS and mobility. Combine that with a way to sludge the Volges, and you'll chew right through them.

Some other weapons are very good in PvE too: any VBI AR or Heavy Assault Carbine with good rolls, wolfhounds and blasters, charge sniper rifles... And no, grenade launchers were not nerfed, that bit is definitely patch placebo. In fact I think they do even a little better against Volges, as they make them fall on the ground easily, and the stagger duration has been increased by the patch.



Can't speak about Saints Row (I own the third one, but have played it too long ago), but the thing is, Borderlands does have some ridiculous guns, but it's also a much harder game than Defiance on the whole. When Tiny Tina's DLC came out, I started the game with my OP gunzerker... and got downed by the very first mob I met. I had gotten used to Defiance's easy gameplay so much that I had gotten careless. At high level in Borderlands you get killed in 2 or 3 shots, and raid bosses are almost unkillable unless you follow some precise strategies. So even with the best guns you don't completely steamroll everything, and there's still fun to be had. But imagine a slag rubi / double-penetrating unkempt harold combo in Defiance (the equivalent of a pre-patch tachmag pulser on crack). Nothing would every be challenging, and shooting things would become boring quickly. Not just for you, but also for people playing with you. That's why we need balance on guns even in PvE.

It sounds to me like you had come to rely a little too much on your SAW, and didn't play enough with other guns. Try to look for alternatives, and you'll see that things really aren't that bad.

You make some good points. A few counterpoints, though:

I would say that Borderlands and Saints Row don't give you OP guns because the game is hard. Instead, they do it to let the players decide for themselves exactly how hard they want the gameplay to be! This is a very important distinction, and it's core to my complaint about the current state of gameplay in Defiance.

Even in UVHM mode in BL2 (the hardest game mode), you can blaze through even the hardest encounters (excepting raid bosses) in the Tiny Tina DLC, any other DLC, or main game content with all six classes if you choose the proper gear and the proper build. I have all 6 classes at level 61 and have at least one build for each class that is pretty OP, whether solo or in group. Just a few examples:

* Maya with a Scheming Cat mod (+80% SMG damage) plus a build centered around maximizing SMG damage and crits, plus a couple good E-Tech Plasma Casters, plus an Antagonist shield, and you can waltz through everything.

* Salvador with a Rubi or Grog Nozzle in one hand and a Butcher shotgun in the other hand, or dual Butchers (one slag and one some other element), and you can pwn all content and barely take a scratch or get downed. Ever.

* Zero with a typical melee build can chain one-shot entire enemy camps and one-shot all minibosses and lieuts. You can even one-shot Constructors!

* Zero with a Cunning/Bore build and a Pimpernel sniper rifle can waltz through everything.

* Gaige with a fully beefed up DeathTrap (sharing a Hide of Terramorphous shield with you) can waltz through everything.

* Krieg has a ridiculous constant auto-nova gimmick build that exploits Flame of the Firehawk where you just run through everything and nova them all to death. The truest "tank" in the entire game. Unstoppable.

From there, I usually purposely substitute different, more gimp weapons as needed to make things more interesting.

What's my point here? Simply that casual players or those who want some fun pew-pew for an hour can go to town and have a blast. While players who want more of a challenge can use less OP builds and gear.

In other words, BL2 (and Saints Row, in the same exact manner) allow a diverse audience of players who all have different opinions of "fun" to TAILOR the game to their exact liking! This is what Defiance has lost. At launch, Defiance PvE could be tailored in exactly this way. Now? Nope. The dev team keeps thinking that only they know best, and they're forcing their model of "fair and balanced" on the player pop.

The result? Some of you might still be happy, but a lot of us have already left or are now just --this-- close to leaving. (Raises hand)

This ability to tailor your own gameplay experience to YOUR liking is exactly why Gearbox hit a home run with BL1 and BL2, and why Volition/Deep Silver keeps hitting home runs with Saints Row. Hell, even Angry Joe grudgingly admits that SR4 is a ton of fun and he gave it an 8/10.

The new Defiance dev team (and Trion as a whole) would be very well served to look at why Borderlands and Saints Row are hits. And why they keep players engaged. I'm still playing BL2 several times a week even now, one year later. And loving it every time I go in game.

The folks who argue above about the good ol' Nintendo days and three tries and no save files and how good it was when games were HARD? It's great if you enjoy that, but remember this: Gaming was a true niche pasttime back then. Casual players--and real revenue to fund increasingly sophisticated game development--weren't part of the equation back then. The company that puts out a game with ONLY "hard" content will generally suffer horribly these days. (Dark Souls was developed on a "niche" budget with "niche" revenue expectations! Putting that out there before the inevitable 'butbutbut DARK SOULS!')

Anyway, keep 'em coming. I appreciate the viewpoints, one and all.

Slyfox2001
08-23-2013, 11:02 AM
The reason I posted to this thread was I wanted to mention duals. I think they are an underated and under mentioned part of PvP. I did a couple with a friend. Had great fun. I can't wait to do more and in different locations. I can see them keeping me amused for a long time in between content. If I had more free time right now i would start a duelling club clan. If anyone has a group out there that plan on utilizing this feature regularly let me know. I may not be a whole lot of competition yet, but I am having fun learning.

Duals... yeah, for what they are, I think they are cool. I think they are a great way to practice new guns on a "PvP" type of experience, without actually having to play through a game. Good addition.

brandileigh
08-23-2013, 11:11 AM
...HOWEVER, describing the charge blade as "gated by rep grinding" is absolutely false. You get that Rep based on arena completion (in addition the contracts offered) and by the time my buddy had played through "story" missions related to the arena, he already had enough rep for the purple blade. I think it took him less than 2 hours from start to finish.


It feels gated to me, the things I use everytime I play Defiance because I fail so hard at the arenas. I'm sure it's a time issue but god I don't want to have to do them just to try a weapon :(

Shoryuken
08-23-2013, 11:28 AM
I've been having fun.

My SAW was my weapon of choice when the shtako hit the fan. It was the jack of all trades, for me.
I wasn't dependent on it though. Had a very nice Assault Rifle/VBI sniper rifle combo, and a VBI Autopistol/Assault Rifle combo. Only really used the SAW/Incinerator combo for bosses or afflicted sieges.
I kinda play my main dude as a deputy Lawkeeper anyway, so the pistol is my primary for solo stuff.
(I don't "RP" it but, you know... it keeps things interesting)

After playing the plague sieges, I was really looking forward to the Volge.
I like it, but I agree with the Sky Bogey, that the afflicted ones were more fun.
Perhaps it was the choice to have less enemies with much higher HP and shields versus a horde.
If I can't hit them in the weak spot (for whatever reason), my weapons do little more than tickle them.
(Albeit aggressively).
But hey, I like a challenge :p

Not a fan of the new 4-person roller, so I'll still be rocking the Challenger.

Still looking forward to a Charge blade though. Someday.

But, what I REALLY like? The new charge sniper rifle I got. Man, that thing packs a wallop!
My new Casti looks awesome too. For what it's worth.

I admit. Maybe it's still just the "shiny", but I'm having fun :-)

antlad
08-23-2013, 11:28 AM
Honest feedback after dlc is that the game is even more fun now. So many not playing I get to take on big enemies by myself.
Only things I don't care much for: that Volge stuff on roads are what seem to be random difficulty, Volge item drops are almost not there anymore.
Use a blast rifle on Volge, or the Volge gun, it works great for me.

Rakshasa
08-23-2013, 11:34 AM
The folks who argue above about the good ol' Nintendo days and three tries and no save files and how good it was when games were HARD? It's great if you enjoy that, but remember this: Gaming was a true niche pasttime back then. Casual players--and real revenue to fund increasingly sophisticated game development--weren't part of the equation back then. The company that puts out a game with ONLY "hard" content will generally suffer horribly these days. (Dark Souls was developed on a "niche" budget with "niche" revenue expectations! Putting that out there before the inevitable 'butbutbut DARK SOULS!')

I don't disagree with that a bit, and I wasn't arguing, just reminiscing. It was fun back then, but as noted it could also be incredibly frustrating. And truth be told, the older and slower that I get, the less masochistic I am in terms of wanting games to mercilessly pound me flat. But sometimes I do still enjoy a brutal challenge. So yeah, I'm in favor of wide difficulty options in single player games. MMOs, not so much, because a decade and a half of playing them has taught me that without some kind of balance, more powerful classes/weapons/builds will dominate and turn a game into a one- or two-trick pony if unaddressed. That's not what most devs or players tend to want, but that's another topic for another day.

My main point above was that difficulty aside, I do sometimes harken back to the days when you played games solely for the pure fun of playing them. Not because of any artificial incentives or rewards, because the fleeting joy of the gameplay was the reward. I still feel like if a game is fun for me, I don't need to be bribed into playing it. And if it's not fun, no amount of 'stuff' is going to make me want to play it. That's why in Defiance, I do emergencies and just go around shooting stuff for fun, even if it's not guaranteed to drop prizes. That's probably a generational issue to some extent -- I'm ancient. :cool:

John Gallowbraid
08-23-2013, 11:35 AM
well I have been playing for over a month now and have done all of the missions , achieved over half of all the various tasks and have over 2000 Ego. I was running around with a pair of Emc purple saws that gave me ammo regen....and was able to solo anything that came long so long as I was careful....now they are worse than useless as their use tends cause one to be overconfident(at least in my case). I could kill an elite volge vicera ,prior to the nerf, It would take me a while but I could get it done....now it takes so long to kill one solo that it just isn't worth the trouble. I would have loved the new volge material if I were still able to fight them but now I just don't have the capacity to duck , dodge and keep firing while doing enough damage to break one down. I agree whole heartedly with the OP that this nerf was a game breaker...
Other points I have are the ungodly lag....OMG WTH!!!....I cannot accomplish any of the time trials since having 1/2 second between command and resonse do give me any control ....by the time I say hit the brakes or turn I have already gone so far off course that there is no way to make up the lost time....
To get the kill shot on the hellion I switched to the fastest firing smg's I could find and then it took me 34 tries....do you people even realize how long it takes to run 34 large arkfalls???
I can be driving down the road and explode and be killed before I get to see what it was I hit: and don't get me started on the arkfalls I was forced to run in the attempt to get a killshot....I usually don't even get to see a hellbug spawn before it explodes....and I have the priveledge of waiting to see the arkfall for a good 10-15 seconds before I see anything...it isn't my computer I have a 20 Mbps connection, a 1 gig video card and 6 gigs of ram on a quad core processor....now I know defiance was designed primarily with consoles in mind....but please people do something here...
Now the new volge material s something I would have loved had you not nerfed my main setup, no other gripes there...but the volge are EVERYWHERE!! Really ,,you cant throw a rock without hitting at least 2 of em. I would rather see that processing power put to use on more variety rather than just popping in more and more volge, mix it up a little.
I like the new DM arksfalls....that boss is really boss material.
I could go on for hours but I wont,,,.... you might think of opening up more map in the upcoming dlc so there is something new to see, some of us have already been everywhere and seen just about everything.....

Slyfox2001
08-23-2013, 11:38 AM
What's my point here? Simply that casual players or those who want some fun pew-pew for an hour can go to town and have a blast. While players who want more of a challenge can use less OP builds and gear.

In other words, BL2 (and Saints Row, in the same exact manner) allow a diverse audience of players who all have different opinions of "fun" to TAILOR the game to their exact liking! This is what Defiance has lost. At launch, Defiance PvE could be tailored in exactly this way. Now? Nope. The dev team keeps thinking that only they know best, and they're forcing their model of "fair and balanced" on the player pop.

The result? Some of you might still be happy, but a lot of us have already left or are now just --this-- close to leaving. (Raises hand)

This ability to tailor your own gameplay experience to YOUR liking is exactly why Gearbox hit a home run with BL1 and BL2, and why Volition/Deep Silver keeps hitting home runs with Saints Row. Hell, even Angry Joe grudgingly admits that SR4 is a ton of fun and he gave it an 8/10.

The new Defiance dev team (and Trion as a whole) would be very well served to look at why Borderlands and Saints Row are hits. And why they keep players engaged. I'm still playing BL2 several times a week even now, one year later. And loving it every time I go in game.

The folks who argue above about the good ol' Nintendo days and three tries and no save files and how good it was when games were HARD? It's great if you enjoy that, but remember this: Gaming was a true niche pasttime back then. Casual players--and real revenue to fund increasingly sophisticated game development--weren't part of the equation back then. The company that puts out a game with ONLY "hard" content will generally suffer horribly these days. (Dark Souls was developed on a "niche" budget with "niche" revenue expectations! Putting that out there before the inevitable 'butbutbut DARK SOULS!')

Anyway, keep 'em coming. I appreciate the viewpoints, one and all.

Here we go! (Another Nintendo-ism, for ya)

Borderlands/Saints Row/etc. Vs. Defiance: Different games. Different games entirely. Just because the games have some similar concepts on the surface does not mean that they are even remotely close underneath. That's like comparing Crackdown with Battlefield.

Borderlands consists of a *possible* 4 player co-op. Defiance houses over 100. Defiance is also persistent (in the sense that it is always ongoing (minus server stuffs)). Borderlands is not. Defiance must find a balance because of the numerous players all online at the same time, fighting together, and constantly competing for #1 and trying to get different pursuits. Borderlands has achievements, but are not detrimental to getting levels in that game. There are tons of these differences that make the two games not the same (or remotely so).

Well I would agree that players could change their weapon load outs to alter the difficulty of the game for themselves, that kind of sucks... Take the SAW, pre-nerf. What if I loved it and only wanted to use it because, well, that's just the type of gamer that I am. So I use the SAW but I'm getting bored with the game for two reasons: 1) The game is just far too easy with the SAW now and 2) I don't want to "trick" the game into becoming harder just by removing my SAW... after all, I love the SAW and will lose interest if I can't use my favorite gun. So these two things cause gamers to leave. But the opposite could be true.

So where do we find the balance? Well, we look at the type of game we have here and then, as I believe Defiance staff have done, you look at the gameplay stats and adjust accordingly. Remember, the opinions of people in this forum do not always reflect the majority of the gaming community. Such could be with the SAW nerf. Or perhaps this is a pre-ploy tactic that Defiance is using for some devilish scheme later down the road... ;)

Nintendo Niche or just New?: I don't believe gaming was a "niche," by its definition. I believe that it was new(er). I don't believe that games caught on because they were made for the "casual" gamer. Games started out hard (except for ET... WTF was that?) and drove you to play them more and more to beat them and then compare your high score with your buddies. I think when we look back at games from days old, we remember the more challenging games, not the casual games (personal opinion, obviously).

Today, I don't think that it is the "casual" gamer that keeps "real revenue" flowing to create "increasingly sophisticated game development..." Maybe we need a definition of what a "casual gamer" is. I believe that a "casual gamer" is simply a person that likes to play games when and if he/she has the time but can go weeks without the "need" to touch a game, or a person that plays games on their phone/tablet.

Casual gamers buy things until after they have gone on sale or been out for a while (with a few exceptions, I believe). They don't typically get DLC or tell their buddies to get a game. They play when they can and they are usually the ones you see play the same game for a year or two (exaggerated, but you get my point). I don't think these gamers keep the gaming industry alive and thriving. You'll definitely never find them in an MMO (again, personal opinion).

I will agree with your comment on: "The company that puts out a game with ONLY "hard" content will generally suffer horribly these days." The same could be said for a game that is far too easy as well. THIS is what I wish Defiance had. An ability to change the difficulty, with an option, not by ME having to MAKE it harder by switching loadouts/etc.

The cost for the "increasingly sophisticated game development" is pretty much all going to visuals and audio, by the way. Which sucks and it shouldn't. Maybe if it didn't cost $40 million to make a game, we might have a better selection of games to pick from, with better prices and more demos. C'est la vie and just my opinions. :)

BJWyler
08-23-2013, 11:54 AM
Yeah, what Slyfox2001 and Tekrunner said at the bottom of page 1.

LMG was the first weapon I maxed to 20 when I was around your EGO. I am now almost 4000 and haven't used one since - I still like them, but found there are many other weapons that worked a lot better in situations, including PvP.

Volge Emergencies should be hard. They are the badasses of the world (game and show). That being said, like I just mentioned, you hardly need an LMG to take them down. These are one of the few things in this game that actually require you to strategize your attack - even in the middle of the attack. Everything else is just pretty much run and gun in the game.

Gating weapons is not a new concept in MMOs - in fact its generally the standard. You may be new to MMOs, so don't understand that fact yet. Personally, while the arenas are not my favorite addition to the game, I have no problem with requiring participation in them to get a particular weapon. Now if actual content (such as a new zone) were gated behind them, then I would be more sympathetic to the issue.

Actually, I think the more players that are at the Sieges and Arkfalls (AFs in particular) actually detract from the experience because the current scaling system caps off at a certain point. I have done a couple of the DM majors on live now and actually have found them boring because there are so many people there, you essentially have nothing to do until the Monolith lands for a minute or two. And then it's just empty your clip as many times as possible. The scaling system needs to be re-balanced so that when the zerg arrives, the bad guys get their own zerg and increase their HP significantly (and I mean this for all AFs and Sieges, not just DM).

Finally, in my years of gaming, I have usually found that one someone uses "fun" and "dependable" when bashing a nerf, it almost always means that the nerf was certainly needed because said nerfed item was OPed and unbalanced. In this case, the SAW was.

Slyfox2001
08-23-2013, 11:58 AM
Finally, in my years of gaming, I have usually found that one someone uses "fun" and "dependable" when bashing a nerf, it almost always means that the nerf was certainly needed because said nerfed item was OPed and unbalanced. In this case, the SAW was.

Agree with you, especially that last part, as much as I don't want to for fear of hearing, "wah" from people... :/

BJWyler
08-23-2013, 12:31 PM
I thought everyone these days knows you only play something if you've been sufficiently bribed to. This kind of comment makes me feel slightly less like some crazy old hermit gamer who still plays games for fun, for the enjoyment of the actual gameplay. And for that, I salute you.

We are not alone.

Yokai
08-23-2013, 12:56 PM
Gating weapons is not a new concept in MMOs - in fact its generally the standard. You may be new to MMOs, so don't understand that fact yet. Personally, while the arenas are not my favorite addition to the game, I have no problem with requiring participation in them to get a particular weapon. Now if actual content (such as a new zone) were gated behind them, then I would be more sympathetic to the issue.


Actually, I've been a heavy gamer since the first Pong console came out. And I've played nearly every major MMO and a lot of the minor ones (even alpha/beta tested at least 4 that never saw a release) since the days of UO, EQ1, and AC1. So I'm quite familiar with the notion of content gating in MMOs.

My point was that it was a bad design choice to gate the Charge Blade with SOLO-ONLY rep-grind content. No more, no less.

N3gativeCr33p
08-23-2013, 01:24 PM
I thought everyone these days knows you only play something if you've been sufficiently bribed to. This kind of comment makes me feel slightly less like some crazy old hermit gamer who still plays games for fun, for the enjoyment of the actual gameplay. And for that, I salute you.

Sweet! So I'm not the only person like this around here. Cool cool!

Iceberg
08-23-2013, 01:33 PM
1600 EGO, 20 Skill in LMG, 5-10 skill in most other weapons, 260 hours played.

In a word, everything feels too sluggish and grindy now after the patch. As in "not really fun any more, but just grindy and boring"

What the hell were you thinking? Did you forget that you built this game not to be a single player shooter, not even to be a co-op shooter, but to be a _massive_ shooter?


So you don't like that its boring now to shoot enemies as a single player (volge) but then you come back later to say that Trion forgot that they built this game to be a MMO shooter?

BJWyler
08-23-2013, 02:21 PM
Actually, I've been a heavy gamer since the first Pong console came out. And I've played nearly every major MMO and a lot of the minor ones (even alpha/beta tested at least 4 that never saw a release) since the days of UO, EQ1, and AC1. So I'm quite familiar with the notion of content gating in MMOs.

My point was that it was a bad design choice to gate the Charge Blade with SOLO-ONLY rep-grind content. No more, no less.

That's understandable, but still - it's really not that much of a grind especially when you compare what grind is to the games of old that you mention. As for solo only - I would also like to see more group oriented content (and two solo missions made groupable as well), but let's understand something that apparently everyone forgot or just missed - according to a dev video, their goal was to make a shooter first and an MMO second. So, again, while I don't particularly like the arenas (solo or otherwise), comparatively speaking, it doesn't take that much effort to get at least one of the blades, even if you don't finish the complete "quest-line". If any part of them is an annoying grind - it's the gold skitterling pursuit, and yet that I was able to knock off in an hour or so just by repeating the first arena's first round.

Should the arenas have a group option - I'll agree with that. Gating the charge blade behind them as they are now - eh, not really that big of an issue in the grand scheme of issues with the game.

Mudturtle Jones
08-23-2013, 02:35 PM
Okay, who are you people and what have you done with the real Defiance forum? I've read through five pages and haven't run into one real rant or tantrum. I must be in the wrong place.
Seriously, though, I found this to be an intelligent and thoughtful discussion.
I was never a fan of the saw. Tried a couple out but didn't like them. My favorite weapon has always been the Thunder but I don't play just to get the highest score. Lately I've been switching between weapon types to level out my skills. I've been pretty successful with all of them though I tend to stay away from Volge unless somebody else is around.
The first and only time I tried to solo them, I used a Meteor Bolter to headshot them from cloak. It only took two shots apiece to take down the troopers and bombers but I couldn't handle the Viscera.

on

Unruhe
08-23-2013, 02:50 PM
My favorite weapon has always been the Thunder but I don't play just to get the highest score.The improved Thunder is actually my favorite weapon right now, and it's very competitive mathematically with other guns. The low crit mult on it means you can't use it as your only gun; I keep a wolfhound sidearm for when the yellow numbers really count, but for general use (and lower risk of repetitive stress injuries) the Thunder is now my go-to. Thunder is slick looking, too, which helps.

I liked the SAW for the DPS it pushed but hated using it. It was an ugly, utilitarian heap and I could live with that, but then once you modded it, it looked like utter garbage. The bloom and recoil when OC was on cooldown were unwelcome, as well.

LJ Eden
08-23-2013, 03:04 PM
•Castithans are basically the same as other race, just diff aesthetics.

Which don't look to be the same quality as the others. They almost look... unfinished. Maybe it's just me, but adding to that the fact they look kind doofy, I don't know. Just can't get behind them.


•The story line is the battle arenas,

Which is amazingly lame both as a story (who wrote that garbage?) and as a new feature (not a fan of arenas when they are set up like this)


•Battle arenas are now solo content.

Would be more fun as co-op, although still not a fan of arenas. Kind of immersion breaking for me.


•The Raptor is a four player vehicle, "truck of doom" is pure lies. There was originally a turret, it was removed, but it still drives like absolute junk

Yeah, no kidding. I see them show up at arkfalls and just can't, for the life of me, understand how people can use them.


•Sieges are revamped versions, but less fun than the afflicted sieges

This makes me wish I hadn't missed the afflicted sieges. The volge ones are pretty cool... although I've only been through three so far and two of them were glitchy as hell.


•The "Join a friend" portion of battle arenas is wrong, and another lie...

Doh!

Mercy Killing
08-23-2013, 03:16 PM
I'm not having a problem with my SAW. It's still a beast as far as damage output is concerned.

Red crystal arkfalls? Same procedure as always. Wolfhound on the weak spots of the crystal, then when the final stage hits, break out the SAW for the symbiote. And I STILL place in the top five when I manage to get to the arkfall in time to do at least three stages before the final one.

I -have- picked up the EMC LMG and the VBI Thunder just to try them out. Good guns, laws yes. But they EAT through my 500 rounds of ammo in no time at all, and it seems like even with the ammo loot perk, I cannot pick up enough ammo to satisfy their appetite. I'm forever running out of ammo on them. So, back to the SAW I go.

TigrisMorte
08-23-2013, 04:12 PM
I call bait and switch!
"Honest feedback about post-DLC "fun" and gameplay"
Yeah right.
I totally believe your "WHINE! SAW NERF! WHINE!" is a all about the DLC and gameplay and not just about the nerf.

I do agree that nerf to make a desired weapon less desired is the wrong attitude.
If they thought the SAW was over used should have buffed others instead.

Yokai
08-23-2013, 04:51 PM
So you don't like that its boring now to shoot enemies as a single player (volge) but then you come back later to say that Trion forgot that they built this game to be a MMO shooter?

I ALWAYS play with AT LEAST one other guildmate (from a multigaming guild). I NEVER play solo.

ten4
08-23-2013, 05:03 PM
I'm not having a problem with my SAW. It's still a beast as far as damage output is concerned.

Red crystal arkfalls? Same procedure as always. Wolfhound on the weak spots of the crystal, then when the final stage hits, break out the SAW for the symbiote. And I STILL place in the top five when I manage to get to the arkfall in time to do at least three stages before the final one.

If you think a SAW is doing that, then that makes me lol. No, it's the wolfhound that is giving you that score b/c shooting weak spots with it results in UBER dmg. Hell, focusing only on weak spots with anything will result in high score.

To me, SAW is utterly worthless now; they nerfed it way way WAY to much. My FRC full auto AR is better and that's sad since it's weak sauce too. W/e, scrapped all my SAWs. /wash hands.

Yokai
08-24-2013, 09:28 AM
HOWEVER, describing the charge blade as "gated by rep grinding" is absolutely false. You get that Rep based on arena completion (in addition the contracts offered) and by the time my buddy had played through "story" missions related to the arena, he already had enough rep for the purple blade. I think it took him less than 2 hours from start to finish.

The only difference between the purple blade and the exorbitantly expensive orange blade is that the orange one does 7% more charge-up damage. That's it. It does the same normal swing damage, and does the same jump attack damage. In other words, the orange blade is absolutely not worth the effort, and the purple one is basically free so long as you just play through the missions offered by purchasing the DLC.

No, this does indeed involve rep grinding. You must achieve a silver or better in at least several arenas to earn enough rep to buy a charge blade. Not a bronze. Not "just completing an arena". A silver or better. And worst of all: they're solo-only arenas. I have no desire to grind solo only content long enough to learn the mechanics to get a silver.

3rdpig
08-24-2013, 10:13 AM
In some ways I agree, the SAW is a noob/casual gamer gun, and for that it was excellent as it was. I also used it for times when I'd be in a situation with 3 or more other players and they were all either really bad and needing reviving a lot, or were using ineffective weapons. Then it let me control the situation, revive them, and still finish the encounter. Other than that, it just made the game too easy.

There are other good weapons for the experienced player, as I tell people in real life, it's not the gun, it's the man/woman holding the gun that makes them a real threat.

The worst part about the SAW nerf IMO is it's forcing noobs and casual players into using ground pounders, which, again IMO, messes up gameplay with all the AoE graphic effects.

drackiller
08-24-2013, 10:18 AM
The worst part about the SAW nerf IMO is it's forcing noobs and casual players into using ground pounders, which, again IMO, messes up gameplay with all the AoE graphic effects.

It really messes up my vision all those explosions, heck i had to stop playing a bit to rest my eyes.
Really hate all those explosions bluring my screen :(

born2beagator
08-24-2013, 10:33 AM
It really messes up my vision all those explosions, heck i had to stop playing a bit to rest my eyes.
Really hate all those explosions bluring my screen :(

whats really bad is the BMG in sieges when several people use it in one area. Can't see a thing