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ralisti
08-23-2013, 07:11 PM
I know everyone at Trion is in panic mode. Failed DLC launch, another round of downsizing, office closures, etc etc etc, but I thought that the communication was going to be improving.

When it first started, I pointed out that it was just spin doctoring. Some people get that warm fuzzy feeling whenever someone at a company even responds in their thread. However, the 'White Knight Cavalry' rode in with the 'it is a new dawn in Trionville' rhetoric.

Since the debacle of a DLC, which could be named 'Look, it is day one release, part duex' the communication, when it is most needed, has come to a stand still. They circled the wagon and showed that there was not really effort for more communication. It was just PR rhetoric that way to many fell for.

I am sure Community Management is busy, as is everyone at Trion. It happens when you undercut your minimum staffing levels. But shouldn't Community Management be, I don't know, busy managing the community who is REALLY upset right now.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, the only thing that changed at Trion was that they increased the number of mouths not saying anything of importance. More bad (or missing) communication is not improved communication.

So I ask. If the whole improved communication thing was not rhetoric, but truth, what happened to it? Did the debacle turn into something that no matter how you spun it, it was bad? Did Community Management get ninja canned?

Seriously, everything is still in the same sh*t creek that it was 3 months ago.

Hiero Glyph
08-23-2013, 07:17 PM
I just want to know how you can spell rhetoric correctly but misspell cavalry so badly. Is it an inside joke or something?

EDIT: Also, communication has improved, there is just nothing to report expect policing thread titles.

ralisti
08-23-2013, 07:20 PM
I just want to know how you can spell rhetoric correctly but misspell cavalry so badly. Is it an inside joke or something?

EDIT: Also, communication has improved, there is just nothing to report expect policing thread titles.

I guess I am more accustomed to talking about political rhetoric than a bunch of people on horses. :D

Thanks for pointing it out thought. I corrected it for clarity.

With the debacle going on, there should be constant feedback from Community Managers. As it seems right now, the company is saying 'take a flying leap. We will fix what we want, when we want, and if you do not like it leave...because we are not listening.'

WARDUKE
08-23-2013, 07:21 PM
Gotta say they communicate more than the other online games I've played over the years. They may not have the answers you want to here or the information you are asking for, but they are here and very active. Not only that, but they take a lot of flak on their forums and show an unbelievable amount of restraint in doing so. I'd of banned 1/3 of the population here by now lol.

I'm not beating the Trion drums here either. I just don't agree with the OP's assessment of the topic.

LALLY
08-23-2013, 07:22 PM
I just want to know how you can spell rhetoric correctly but misspell cavalry so badly. Is it an inside joke or something?

EDIT: Also, communication has improved, there is just nothing to report expect policing thread titles.

another white knight more obsessed with pointing out spelling mistakes then replying correctly to some one that has an issue with the game, great work, being completely defensive at all costs is the problem

Sanguinesun
08-23-2013, 07:32 PM
Quantity has increased. I think that can easily been seen.

"Quality" though has remained a constant.

Thus "improved" is a misdirect.

dahanese
08-23-2013, 07:38 PM
Hey there -

I recommend everyone check out the dev tracker. We are communicating every day (except maybe the odd weekend) and will continue to do so from here on out.

dahanese
08-23-2013, 07:39 PM
I guess I am more accustomed to talking about political rhetoric than a bunch of people on horses. :D

Thanks for pointing it out thought. I corrected it for clarity.

With the debacle going on, there should be constant feedback from Community Managers. As it seems right now, the company is saying 'take a flying leap. We will fix what we want, when we want, and if you do not like it leave...because we are not listening.'

I'm sorry you feel that way! Last week we put together quite a comprehensive poll and sent it to the devs. It will take a while to see the fruits of your labor in that poll, but we are actively reading and assessing what's said there, here, and from submissions within game among other sources.

Game development takes time but the suggestions and future wishes of the community have been sent to the team for them to work through.

Rakshasa
08-23-2013, 07:42 PM
Gotta say they communicate more than the other online games I've played over the years. They may not have the answers you want to here or the information you are asking for, but they are here and very active. Not only that, but they take a lot of flak on their forums and show an unbelievable amount of restraint in doing so. I'd of banned 1/3 of the population here by now lol.

I agree with that. I see 40-50 messages today alone from dahanese and Morgana, most in direct response to issues and questions raised by players here, along with updates to the existing issues.

There are clearly some ongoing problems, especially on the consoles. They have repeatedly acknowledged and confirmed that they're aware of them and are working to do their best to solve them. We know the current status and it gets updated as the situation changes, so we don't need to be reminded constantly "Yes, we're still aware of these issues, and yes we're still working on them." We have communication, we don't need constant hand-holding and babysitting. I can't really see what more someone could be expecting from them.

ralisti
08-23-2013, 08:04 PM
I agree with that. I see 40-50 messages today alone from dahanese and Morgana, most in direct response to issues and questions raised by players here, along with updates to the existing issues.

There are clearly some ongoing problems, especially on the consoles. They have repeatedly acknowledged and confirmed that they're aware of them and are working to do their best to solve them. We know the current status and it gets updated as the situation changes, so we don't need to be reminded constantly "Yes, we're still aware of these issues, and yes we're still working on them." We have communication, we don't need constant hand-holding and babysitting. I can't really see what more someone could be expecting from them.

Maybe a post with more than 'We are looking into it'. I know that in my line of work, if something as big as the DLC debacle occurred, it would mean an instant bridge call with all the major players from all the major teams looking into the issues. Within an hour, we are not just expected to know what the issue is (root cause analysis), but what needs to be done to fix it, how long it is going to take to fix it, the impact of the issue in both short and long term, etc etc etc...and we are expected to give the information to the client (you know, the person purchasing the product).

Why? Because it is important that we are transparent to the client to maintain a level of trust that has been built. If we start hedging information, the client would start distrusting not just our people, but our work.

Sure Community Management is posting a lot, but they are not saying anything. This means that Trion does not want to admit they dropped the ball (again), they can not figure out the problem (questionable competency), or they do not respect the customer enough to give a direct and honest answer as to the problem and estimate time of resolution.

I can understand not being committed to development stuff, as it ebbs and flows as it gets done. Priorities change. But this is an issue affecting many people who Trion took their money, continually pushed back delivery of said product, and even when Trion said they would deliver failed to deliver.

You know that Trion would not be as understanding if there was a problem with billing when I purchased an item, and Trion did not get the money. They would not wait as I continually fed them to lines they feed the players. They would want the problem rectified immediately or they would remove the item from my account. Don't tell me you think that the company deserves more leniency then they show their customers.

ralisti
08-23-2013, 08:13 PM
I'm sorry you feel that way! Last week we put together quite a comprehensive poll and sent it to the devs. It will take a while to see the fruits of your labor in that poll, but we are actively reading and assessing what's said there, here, and from submissions within game among other sources.

Game development takes time but the suggestions and future wishes of the community have been sent to the team for them to work through.

The game has been out for close to 5 months. This does not take into consideration the development time, testing time, etc etc. How much time does the company need to fix issues, some of which have been around since testing at least?

The company kept pushing back the DLC to polish it. They put it on an alpha server to test it. Then they push it to production and bang, issues galore. So please tell me, how much time are the consumers (players) suppose to give the company to fix what Trion already collected the money for?

We are close to 5 months in to supposed gold code game, so please tell me, how much more time is needed?

BJWyler
08-23-2013, 08:15 PM
Maybe a post with more than 'We are looking into it'. I know that in my line of work, if something as big as the DLC debacle occurred, it would mean an instant bridge call with all the major players from all the major teams looking into the issues. Within an hour, we are not just expected to know what the issue is (root cause analysis), but what needs to be done to fix it, how long it is going to take to fix it, the impact of the issue in both short and long term, etc etc etc...and we are expected to give the information to the client (you know, the person purchasing the product).


I can't get that from the electric company when the power goes out, nor from the cable company when my cable goes out, nor from the phone company when my line goes dead. I've never seen that level of detail come from any gaming company for any game that I have played - ever.

Out of curiosity - if your teams cannot identify the problem within the hour, nor estimate how long it will take to fix, because, you know, you don't know that the problem is yet, what do you do then? We have a similar policy in my line of work, but we don't give the clients details until we know them, and even then, it is an oversimplified version because, you know, clients don't often have the knowledge (or really care) about the technical details for it to make a difference.


The game has been out for close to 5 months. This does not take into consideration the development time, testing time, etc etc. How much time does the company need to fix issues, some of which have been around since testing at least?

I would ask if you wanted me to list all the games that I have played that have had bugs and issues, and continue to do so in the 30 years that I have been gaming - many of those games still showing bugs from that time. It's a fact of life in this technology. Get over it.

Jayx
08-23-2013, 08:18 PM
We are close to 5 months in to supposed gold code game, so please tell me, how much more time is needed?

I can't bring to mind any large scale MMO that has been bug free within 4-5months

LALLY
08-23-2013, 08:30 PM
I can't bring to mind any large scale MMO that has been bug free within 4-5months

no mmo is bug free, wow goes down every week to stable their servers, the reason people are annoyed is because obvious problems since launch don't seem to be being sorted out.

ralisti
08-23-2013, 08:34 PM
I can't get that from the electric company when the power goes out, nor from the cable company when my cable goes out, nor from the phone company when my line goes dead. I've never seen that level of detail come from any gaming company for any game that I have played - ever.

Out of curiosity - if your teams cannot identify the problem within the hour, nor estimate how long it will take to fix, because, you know, you don't know that the problem is yet, what do you do then? We have a similar policy in my line of work, but we don't give the clients details until we know them, and even then, it is an oversimplified version because, you know, clients don't often have the knowledge (or really care) about the technical details for it to make a difference.



I would ask if you wanted me to list all the games that I have played that have had bugs and issues, and continue to do so in the 30 years that I have been gaming - many of those games still showing bugs from that time. It's a fact of life in this technology. Get over it.

If we can not identify the issue within 30 minutes, more people are tasked with finding the issue. At 45 minutes, more are tasked. If we hit an hour, we rollback any changes made within the last 24 hours and continue to investigate the changes that had been made in the last 24 hours to see if any of them are the issue, we continue to check hardware to make sure it is not an equipment malfunction, etc until we find what the issue is.

Also, the last time I called my cable company about connectivity issues, they had an automated message stating there was a fiber optic line cut in my area which could cause intermittent issues, that they were working on the issues, and gave an approximate time for repair. I have called the electric company and been told that there were lines down and that power would be restored within X hours. Companies that care divulge the information because they want to keep their clients.

Yes, almost all games released today have bugs, but Defiance not only has many of the bugs that it was told about in testing, bug new bugs it has created through poor testing, and the fixed bug list seems to shrink every patch as they break things they had actually fixed. Bugs which affect the foundation of the game limp around for months before being worked on (broken arkfalls anyone?), chat in an MMO (though not broken on release, it was solely lacking, and when they touch it to fix it, they basically totally break it), and the list could go on and on.

So while I do not expect perfection, I do expect a minimal level of competency when I purchase software, be it application or game. Trion has continually failed to meet a level of competency that even garage indie developers have.

BJWyler
08-23-2013, 08:35 PM
no mmo is bug free, wow goes down every week to stable their servers, the reason people are annoyed is because obvious problems since launch don't seem to be being sorted out.

Which is, again, just like every other MMO out there - before and now. And again, there have been games I have been playing for the last 10-15 years that still have bugs ... that were there at launch ... and in fact were there and reported in the beta. It's long past time that gamers stopped being a whiny bunch of brats and start realizing that this a product of the advanced technology we demanded.

I am continually amazed that people will go into apoplectic fits over bugs that are common in today's software and games, or even what some dev named a new vehicle in an off the cuff comment for Gods' sake. There are a lot more important things to worry about not only in life, but in any game than the normal bugs or a bit of excited diatribe and hype.

In the end, it's time for people to make a grown up decision and either accept the problems for what they are, and understand that the people making the game are actually trying their best to fix the problems as quickly as possible, or come to the realization that perhaps their expectations are not met by the game and its time to move on to something that is more befitting said expectations.

calinaspad
08-23-2013, 08:36 PM
Well, it seems that community owners read the posts from the users, then send a report to the dev team to improuve the game...

the problem is that many times people react on this or this other point they had problem with or what ever... the last patch killed the social dimenssion in the game. so...
i feel that the reaction of some users was because after typing enter.... they couldn't move anymore... than devs improved a way to protect the game play... in fact i suggest just to come back to the initial version of social part. for sure it was not perfect, but it was something... actualy we just have nothing... since one month we play with clan friends because, playing on our own way, we see they connect and then we are adviced about their presence. since the dlc, it's over.

for sure there is something to do with the chat box, but not in this way. this game need the social dimenssion witch is hiden actualy.

tho the team, this post just want to explain that many "ouin-ouin" are post by people, and those who are satify or try to be satisfy withe what they have will not post. some threads have to retain attention, and other just have to be seen superficialy. defiance chosed to have a social dimension. this point is an important point of the concept. before improving, dev team have to see what will be the improvement effects before changing the online client.

well scuse my poor english, it's not my mother language.

et n'oubliez pas... Calina, ses calins sont mortels.

WARDUKE
08-23-2013, 09:03 PM
All I know is that when I got here in early July, the forum push was on the DLC, not on the bugs. People were all fed up with the DLC delay, because they'd already bought the season pass. It didn't matter to them that the company was going through some serious changes that effected it's day to day operations and I get that.

However, the push for the DLC came at a cost of addressing other game related issues and again effected the DLC development when it came to double/triple checking code.

The only version that really had any testing was the PC version and even with some of the issues that were brought up, nothing was game breaking and it would have pushed back the release of the DLC to nail it all down.

None of the versions were ever stress tested and there really is only one way to do so, release it.

I honestly think that now people who own the DLC are just upset because it's light and not flawless. Yet these were the same people lighting up the forums about getting the DLC released and to stop pushing it back.

Realistically, you just can't have it both ways.

Considering the rocky release that I read about months back in reviews, the loses of resources to remain in the black by the company and the angry push for the DLC release when I got here, I'd say they are doing ok. Not great, but ok.

Rasczak
08-23-2013, 09:12 PM
I'm sorry you feel that way! Last week we put together quite a comprehensive poll and sent it to the devs. It will take a while to see the fruits of your labor in that poll, but we are actively reading and assessing what's said there, here, and from submissions within game among other sources.

Game development takes time but the suggestions and future wishes of the community have been sent to the team for them to work through.

Saying that game development takes time must be the Defiance mantra of the year, considering the abysmal 5 months since launch that have been absolutely squandered. Also keep in mind that saying it's being worked on, fixed, adjusted, et cetera, is nothing that hadn't been said for months on end by the very same people you are on here replacing.

Pretend some of us here aren't die hard Defiance game fans (though we aren't haters, either), and have even gone onto the lifeboats of being Trion die hard fans (as I used be via Rift). How much more time does this team really think it has with this segment of consumers? Better yet, how much lower can the game drop from its current $10 (or even $5 at Origin) to try to bring people in given the word of mouth that continues to spread about it?

Now ask everyone on your end how much time they think is left before it reaches the point of no return, which has happened to even bigger named and budgeted MMO games.

Rakshasa
08-23-2013, 09:14 PM
Maybe a post with more than 'We are looking into it'.

Okay, such as what, specifically? They repeatedly let us know that they are aware of the issues. They repeatedly let us know that they are actively working to resolve the critical ones, not just 'looking into it'. The people whose job it is to work on this are spending their working hours doing that. They don't yet have a reliable timeframe to give, and they aren't making guesses at unreliable timeframes that would inevitably get them crucified as "liars". What exactly would you have them provide in addition to this, that would satisfy you? A livestream of the code base? Their time sheets? A webcam feed proving who is at their desks, and how fast they appear to be typing? I have to ask... given the unrelentingly negative and disdainful tone of most of your forum posts (for months, not just having to do with unreceived DLC), is there anything that would actually satisfy you in regards to this little video game?


I know that in my line of work, if something as big as the DLC debacle occurred, it would mean an instant bridge call with all the major players from all the major teams looking into the issues. Within an hour, we are not just expected to know what the issue is (root cause analysis), but what needs to be done to fix it, how long it is going to take to fix it, the impact of the issue in both short and long term, etc etc etc...and we are expected to give the information to the client (you know, the person purchasing the product).

It sounds to me as though your line of work is probably something a lot more critical than making a video game, and something that your clients have to depend on as an ongoing concern. At least I hope that's the case. In this case, my perspective is that I'm a customer who bought this company's video game. It's not a matter of life and death, not a health and safety issue, not enterprise- or mission-critical, and not a major ongoing investment. Neither my life nor livelihood is going to be significantly impacted by that company not working in crisis mode to give me something within the day or week, much less 'within the hour'. Having said that, today alone they've averaged a half dozen posts per business hour of direct communication with us right here, which I consider to be above and beyond what's necessary.


Sure Community Management is posting a lot, but they are not saying anything. This means that Trion does not want to admit they dropped the ball (again), they can not figure out the problem (questionable competency), or they do not respect the customer enough to give a direct and honest answer as to the problem and estimate time of resolution.

They're not saying anything? How are status updates and direct responses to questions and concerns that other players post "not saying anything"? I can understand it may not be what you want to hear, but you surely realize that doesn't disqualify it as "nothing".

BJWyler
08-23-2013, 09:27 PM
If we can not identify the issue within 30 minutes, more people are tasked with finding the issue. At 45 minutes, more are tasked. If we hit an hour, we rollback any changes made within the last 24 hours and continue to investigate the changes that had been made in the last 24 hours to see if any of them are the issue, we continue to check hardware to make sure it is not an equipment malfunction, etc until we find what the issue is.

Also, the last time I called my cable company about connectivity issues, they had an automated message stating there was a fiber optic line cut in my area which could cause intermittent issues, that they were working on the issues, and gave an approximate time for repair. I have called the electric company and been told that there were lines down and that power would be restored within X hours. Companies that care divulge the information because they want to keep their clients.

Yes, almost all games released today have bugs, but Defiance not only has many of the bugs that it was told about in testing, bug new bugs it has created through poor testing, and the fixed bug list seems to shrink every patch as they break things they had actually fixed. Bugs which affect the foundation of the game limp around for months before being worked on (broken arkfalls anyone?), chat in an MMO (though not broken on release, it was solely lacking, and when they touch it to fix it, they basically totally break it), and the list could go on and on.

So while I do not expect perfection, I do expect a minimal level of competency when I purchase software, be it application or game. Trion has continually failed to meet a level of competency that even garage indie developers have.

I had a longer response, but Rakshasa summed up some points nicely.

However, what facts do you have that it was "months before" broken arkfalls were worked on. Or are you just assuming that it took a couple of months to fix them that they only started working on them a few days before they actually got fixed?

Again, as several of my post stated, and as many others, things like subpar chat and bugs are a fact of life for every MMO launch. Some things that look good on paper turn out not to be good when placed in the hands of gamers. Many things that are not found in QA cannot be found until thousands or millions of players get the game in their hands. Again, just a fact of life with the technology as it stands today.

Quite frankly, I have seen the devs here operate not only with a modicum of competency, but a ton of grace as well, like many other developers have in the past. I also got news for you - the majority of developers that are working in the industry now were once the garage indie developers themselves. I have even met a few that were just like you - criticizing devs left and right until they got fed up and decided they could do a better job and got hired in the industry. Their tune changed fast.

Again, if Trion is failing to meet your expectations, perhaps it is time for you to do the grown up thing and move on. Lord knows I have done that plenty of times with companies and products I am not satisfied with. However, you also don't see me *****ing and Moaning about those companies and products on their websites or forums either. Not really worth my time and ends up reflecting just as poorly on my character as it does the company.

WARDUKE
08-23-2013, 09:29 PM
Rasczak, honestly, they don't want to loose those consumers that have been here since the beginning, but cutting the price is a signal that they are actively seeking a newer audience.

Seriously now, is it easier to appease someone like yourself or simply market to a new customer that doesn't have all the baggage that you currently have with the game? Clearly, newer is better. They still have money to spend and are ready to spend it.

What do the baggage holders bring to the table currently? The ones that are most vocal about their disdain for the Trion already, in most cases, own the Season Pass..

I in no way mean to say you and those like you are irrelevant to Trion, but from a profit point of view, currently, you are.

Happy Weekend Folks!

Rasczak
08-23-2013, 09:31 PM
Rasczak, honestly, they don't want to loose those consumers that have been here since the beginning, but cutting the price is a signal that they are actively seeking a newer audience.

Seriously now, is it easier to appease someone like yourself or simply market to a new customer that doesn't have all the baggage that you currently have with the game? Clearly, newer is better. They still have money to spend and are ready to spend it.

What do the baggage holders bring to the table currently? The ones that are most vocal about their disdain for the Trion already, in most cases, own the Season Pass..

I in no way mean to say you and those like you are irrelevant to Trion, but from a profit point of view, currently, you are.

Happy Weekend Folks!

I'm well aware of that from a business standpoint.

Hell, I'm used to it from a gaming standpoint, SOE makes it crystal clear at least once a year since 2005.

WARDUKE
08-23-2013, 09:37 PM
lmao ok. We don't always see things eye to eye, but clearly we are on the same page here.

Rasczak
08-23-2013, 09:43 PM
lmao ok. We don't always see things eye to eye, but clearly we are on the same page here.

Oh, I have no illusions of self-importance with any company I am a customer for. At the end of the day, any studio could lose me and easily grab three new people to replace me. Remember, I publish tabletop RPGs with international distribution. I'm an award nominated author. And even for me, I lose fans and grab new ones. It's the way it goes.

I'm no more special on the customer end than they are.

However, my personal feeling is that Trion Worlds wanted so badly to be the upstart company to finally compete with Blizzard. Hell, that was made obvious in the Rift launch era television commercials where they blatantly called WoW out ("You aren't in Azeroth anymore," and "bring your friends, form an alliance, and come join our horde"). And, okay, even though I still played WoW, I gave Rift 2 years as well. That steady streak ended after all this crap with Defiance, and how the community has changed so much in Rift since F2P in June.

But what Trion Worlds, I bet, doesn't understand is why they're losing me after only 2 years, and yet Blizzard has maintained me for 9 years this coming November. Okay, really 19 years if you go back to Warcraft: Orcs & Humans in 1994, and then my purchasing and playing of Warcraft 2 & 3, Starcraft 1 & 2, and Diablo 1 -3.

Blizzard, like any developer, is always seeking new blood as well. They've made enough changes to WoW to reflect that. However, unlike Trion Worlds (and SOE), I've never lost confidence in them as they did it. That's because they know how to communicate, test, fix, and polish a product (even a patch). Are their products or patches perfect? Absolutely not. But that isn't the point: it's their attention to polish and fixes.

Trion Worlds understood that when Rift launched. Somewhere within Defiance development and support, they apparently forgot everything they knew.

WARDUKE
08-23-2013, 09:59 PM
Blizzard also released WoW at the peak moment of the MMO revolution, so they could/can afford to spend that kind of money on talent. MMOs profits are on a downward slide atm due to the vast amount of competition.

So, unless you have a ton of capital in your coffer, you are going to have a bad time. Pizza, French Fries.

Trion took the risk with Defiance and you have to respect them for it, but I have no doubts that it will be Bungie that reaps the rewards from Trion's risk. They simply have way more resources they can throw at the product.

Rasczak
08-23-2013, 10:11 PM
Blizzard also released WoW at the peak moment of the MMO revolution, so they could/can afford to spend that kind of money on talent. MMOs profits are on a downward slide atm due to the vast amount of competition.

So, unless you have a ton of capital in your coffer, you are going to have a bad time. Pizza, French Fries.

Trion took the risk with Defiance and you have to respect them for it, but I have no doubts that it will be Bungie that reaps the rewards from Trion's risk. They simply have way more resources they can throw at the product.

Here's the thing, though. I don't hate or dislike the Defiance game. It's a shooter, I knew that coming in (and I generally do dislike shooters with a passion), so I can live with things like no crafting, no social hub, no storage, no mailbox, et cetera that others are rallying about. I expect those in my MMOs, but not necessarily an open-world shooter. So, I'm okay with the features that Defiance does offer (except this [string of expletives] horrendous text chat system).

The issue I have is their double-speak, backtracking, outright denial of what was actually stated, inability to properly fix issues, inability to act like they actually have a vision and direction for this game, and the other quality issues that has plagued Defiance since launch day and ongoing, with little relief in actual sight.

If you need to launch a game with issues due to budget and market, then do so. But understand that you also have to be prepared to then step in quickly and fix it. Trion didn't with Defiance.

Those issues remain the same whether you launch inside the perfect storm like WoW did in 2004, in 2011 like Rift did, or in 2013 like Defiance did.

And Trion Worlds has fixed issues, communicated, and gotten things done on a promised schedule for 2 years now in Rift.

Which makes Defiance inexcusable.

WARDUKE
08-23-2013, 10:21 PM
Yeah, I got nothing to debate that last post with... :(

I wish more disgruntled players on here would post as elequently. Would certain frame the discussions better. That is the kind of posting that they want to see when they ask for negative feedback. Calm, descriptive and to the point.

Rakshasa
08-23-2013, 10:36 PM
In the end, it's time for people to make a grown up decision and either accept the problems for what they are, and understand that the people making the game are actually trying their best to fix the problems as quickly as possible, or come to the realization that perhaps their expectations are not met by the game and its time to move on to something that is more befitting said expectations.

I fear my previous post in this thread came off a little harsher and more argumentative than I really intended. So my apologies to Ralisti and others for the tone, though I do stand by the underlying sentiment and would still pose the same questions, but hopefully in a less abrasive way. I'll blame caffeine deficiency, a lack of sleep, and an ongoing sense of frustration about this issue that I don't articulate nearly as well as that simple quote above does. I don't do sigs, but if I did I'd be sorely tempted to quote that in one.

alienoid
08-25-2013, 01:17 PM
Is it wrong if I consider myself as a gamer throwing out a few bucks for entertainment rather than a paying customer of primal life support system and thus don't really care if it works now or next week ? ;)
Just saying ...

FDG SKULLS
08-25-2013, 01:36 PM
Now im not saying i totally agree with the way the trion team is handling things and YES i would like an estimated time when the problem would be fixed AND they gave that to me they said with the next patch. NOW while i believe that this problem should have been found sooner before the launch said date, again most people did get there if not most of there DLC content yes most are missing one thing. But as a whole i have seen some improvement and yes i believe that they are trying to fix everything as fast as they can. But i also agree with you this should have been something they caught before the release date im mean isnt that what the beta testers are for to find problems in a game and report them to the said company.

YES i know it kinda sounds like im siding with them but in all actuality im not i do agree with most of your comments. but like this post says
I would ask if you wanted me to list all the games that I have played that have had bugs and issues, and continue to do so in the 30 years that I have been gaming - many of those games still showing bugs from that time. It's a fact of life in this technology. Get over it. its a game and i just live with it.

Elric1
08-25-2013, 02:16 PM
Did anyone think ALOT of this would have been solved if they had coded it where GMs could turn it on for them and few other players understanding this is a test LONG before it went live so when it did most if not all the bugs would have been worked out before it's official release date?

I am sorry but Trion you need to hire me I heard you need someone with a collage degree in common sense.

Nim Shandu
08-25-2013, 03:51 PM
The communication in the game has been a problem since 2012. I know the game hasn't been out that long. There are threads on this forum, started in June 2012 stating that the lack of social aspects and communication was a problem. It was well before release so they probably thought it would be fixed by then. The problem persists, it seems they haven't done anything to fix it.

Synead
08-26-2013, 04:47 AM
Hey there -

I recommend everyone check out the dev tracker. We are communicating every day (except maybe the odd weekend) and will continue to do so from here on out.

to say nothing. gg!

Hiero Glyph
08-26-2013, 06:41 AM
another white knight more obsessed with pointing out spelling mistakes then replying correctly to some one that has an issue with the game, great work, being completely defensive at all costs is the problem

If you think that you are grossly mistaken. I have continually critiqued Trion from the very start for lacking the honesty to communicate with this community in any meaningful way. This started when Trion lied about region locking on the console version by omitting the this information in the live streams for months and only having the community find out about it during the console betas (and even then it was not confirmed until the week before release).

That being said, the communication has improved from what it was previously. While we are not getting the answers that matter, we are still getting regular communication (it's just completely inconsequential). Trion has a long way to go in fixing Defiance and at this point it is probably way too little, far too late. However, the fact remains that communication has greatly improved from the days of Sledgehammer.


I am sorry but Trion you need to hire me I heard you need someone with a collage degree in common sense.

I'm still laughing about this. Thanks for making my morning enjoyable.

N3gativeCr33p
08-26-2013, 06:49 AM
I am sorry but Trion you need to hire me I heard you need someone with a collage degree in common sense.

Yeah, I like to make collages too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collage

WARDUKE
08-26-2013, 06:52 AM
That's pretty funny.

Purplehaze256
08-26-2013, 09:35 AM
Definition of COMMUNICATION
1: an act or instance of transmitting
2
a : information transmitted or conveyed
b : a verbal or written message
Tryon you need to do a lot better job of this.
Definition of CUSTOMER: one that purchases a commodity or service
That is me and all who play Defiance
Definition of SERVICE a : the occupation or function of serving <in active service>
b : employment as a servant <entered his service>
2
a : the work performed by one that serves <good service>
b : HELP, USE, BENEFIT <glad to be of service>
c : contribution to the welfare of others
d : disposal for use <I'm entirely at your service>
All at Tryon need to learn 2-b and 2-c
Customer service is the provision of service to customers before, during and after a purchase