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View Full Version : Surge Snipers need NERFED



UnchartedDestiny
08-29-2013, 03:17 PM
Either nerf the Surge snipers or get them in line with the regular snipers. This one shot one kill is bullchit. A regular Bolter can't shoot someone in the 'chest' and kill them with one shot, so why the hell should the new Surge snipers do it? You've nerfed everything else like the shotty's and LMG's to keep them in line.. well.. the Surge snipers are too OP.

JxSiN
08-29-2013, 03:27 PM
Disagree. They do not need to be nerfed. I do not think they are overpowered one bit, they perform exactly how they are suppose to. For the sake of PvE, I am tired of weapons getting nerfed for PvP. This game is suppose to be PvE with a side of PvP, not the other way around. I really can't believe someone is crying nerf when we get decent guns in the game. Also, why create a second thread about this instead of just bumping the thread you already created about it.

Leave the new snipers alone.

Shadow Viper
08-29-2013, 03:28 PM
Just becuase you keep getting owned by a certain weapon does not mean that weapon needs nerfed, rather than wasting time creating a nerf thread, crying for the developers to make the game easier for you, why not use that time more wisely to Learn to Play?

Besides, until Trion fixes the broken servers, everything else is a non-issue at this point.

August Barkley
08-29-2013, 03:30 PM
Let me guess ... Someone screwed you in PVP?

TAG
08-29-2013, 03:31 PM
How about you complain about a real issue like broken DLC or the game not working. The SAW nerf wasn't enough for you crybabies?

Notturno
08-29-2013, 03:33 PM
The charge forces the player to enter the walk animation, thus reduce their movement speed. In a sniper duel, that is almost a guaranteed death for them. It's a balanced weapon, it does not need to be nerfed.

What does need to be changed is how charging interacts with cloaking - right now you can charge while cloaked. To me, it makes absolutely no sense for cloaking to negate the only drawback of the weapon. If you're charging while in cloak, your model should be revealed, then go back into cloak after you fire.

Shadow Viper
08-29-2013, 03:33 PM
How about you complain about a real issue like broken DLC or the game not working. The SAW nerf wasn't enough for you crybabies?

Nothing is ever enough for crybabies like the OP, the moment they get killed by something, it's off to the forums to scream nerf and beg the developers to make the game easier for them, happens in every competitive multiplayer game.

TAG
08-29-2013, 03:35 PM
Nothing is ever enough for crybabies like the OP, the moment they get killed by something, it's off to the forums to scream nerf and beg the developers to make the game easier for them, happens in every competitive multiplayer game.

It just sucks I haven't even had a chance to use this weapon and this kid is already crying about nerf, what a joke.

Nilxain
08-29-2013, 03:39 PM
Also disagree. Just from a firing stand point, it takes twice as long to fire off 5 charged rounds (tested on particle repeater) as it does to fire off 5 rounds with the VIB Sniper Rifle, and the cyclone goes through it's small clip super fast. Both of these things balance out quite well. At least with a regular sniper rife you can ready your round and fire it right away, charged rifles require prep. These sniper weapons have different uses and play styles in mind, and I think they function just fine.

Shotguns are different because you don't have to really aim with them - close up, large spread. These weapons are a small bullet and take time to charge (easy to see the player, unable to sprint, easy to miss your target) - it's a damage reward for skillful aiming.

Shadow Viper
08-29-2013, 03:41 PM
It just sucks I haven't even had a chance to use this weapon and this kid is already crying about nerf, what a joke.

With the broken servers, I doubt many people have had the chance to use the weapon-type

But seriously, who was stupid enough to actually buy the DLC with the broken state Defiance is in and Trion refusing to fix it. Might as well of just taken the money and flushed it down the toilet. People are so silly these days.

Zippy McPinhead
08-29-2013, 03:42 PM
Dear OP,

Your Sig does not match your post
AT ALL

Notturno
08-29-2013, 03:43 PM
Nevermind.

xDoMx RaZoR
08-29-2013, 03:45 PM
OMG SOMEONE KILLED ME WITH A GUN... NERF IT PLEASE..

if someone has the skill to shoot you while your running then they deserve to be credited with a kill. no different than when i run around one shotting people with my short barrel even after it has been nerfed.

Shadow Viper
08-29-2013, 03:45 PM
Your Sig does not match your post
AT ALL

Please learn to use the quote function.

TAG
08-29-2013, 03:49 PM
With the broken servers, I doubt many people have had the chance to use the weapon-type

But seriously, who was stupid enough to actually buy the DLC with the broken state Defiance is in and Trion refusing to fix it. Might as well of just taken the money and flushed it down the toilet. People are so silly these days.

Well I still had my hope that Trion would deliver an awesome DLC, then it got shattered when I realized I paid for a broken arena. At least I didn't buy the season pass.

Shadow Viper
08-29-2013, 03:53 PM
Well I still had my hope that Trion would deliver an awesome DLC, then it got shattered when I realized I paid for a broken arena. At least I didn't buy the season pass.

Awesome DLC? The game has had the same game-breaking problems/issues/bugs/glitches since launches, the major game breaking problems that should not have even made it past beta, and you had hope the DLC wasn't going to be a waste of money?! I'm certainly glad I did not waste my money on it.

Trion is handling Defiance like it was their first MMO, didn't they have a prior MMO? Oh wait, they did, it was called Rift and failed rather hard, so hard it had to switch to Free To Play. It's obvious Trion cares nothing about it's customers or fixing their broken games.

My advice to everyone, don't give Trion another cent until they start fixing their s-h-i-t.

Arsenic_Touch
08-29-2013, 03:55 PM
What does need to be changed is how charging interacts with cloaking - right now you can charge while cloaked. To me, it makes absolutely no sense for cloaking to negate the only drawback of the weapon. If you're charging while in cloak, your model should be revealed, then go back into cloak after you fire.

The charge shows up while cloak, it has in every single duel we've tested and during pvp matches.

@op, they should not be nerfing anything.

Notturno
08-29-2013, 03:57 PM
The charge shows up while cloak, it has in every single duel we've tested and during pvp matches.

The charging effect does, the player model does not from my experience in Shadow War. This may be a symptom of me sniping at ranges beyond the draw distance. Could you clarify on whether you meant the charging effect or the player model?

Arsenic_Touch
08-29-2013, 03:58 PM
The charging effect does, the player model does not from my experience in Shadow War. This may be a symptom of me sniping at ranges beyond the draw distance. Could you clarify on whether you meant the charging effect or the player model?

The glow from the weapon shows up while charging, if you know what you're looking at, it's real easy to see players in cloak with their weapon charged. While it may not be obvious at sniper range, it's obvious at other ranges. They don't need to change it.

Mess7739
08-29-2013, 04:10 PM
I don't understand, what broken servers? I've been able to log on and play every time, are the servers going down unintentionally periodically?

Notturno
08-29-2013, 04:15 PM
The glow from the weapon shows up while charging, if you know what you're looking at, it's real easy to see players in cloak with their weapon charged. While it may not be obvious at sniper range, it's obvious at other ranges. They don't need to change it.

Thanks for the information.

I'm not sure I agree with leaving it as is, though. It's not necessarily that the weapon is the problem, I just disagree with the game further incentivizing cloak. There's already a plethora of benefits from using cloak; dropping aggro, instant shield recharge, perfect invisibility, and so on. To further reward the already premiere EGO power with another incentive, which essentially negates the only weakness of the most powerful burst weapon in the game now, seems a bit off to me. For PvP purposes, it's a pretty big deal.


I don't understand, what broken servers? I've been able to log on and play every time, are the servers going down unintentionally periodically?

Networking issues, there have been issues on Trion's end the past day or so. The servers have been unresponsive for certain folks while Trion's techs try to resolve the issue. Basically, you have a very small minority of vocal individuals playing up the doom and gloom scenario while derailing threads.

Pay no attention to them.

xDoMx RaZoR
08-29-2013, 04:45 PM
why do ppl consistantly complain about play styles in pvp? theres a counter for every single thing used in pvp. its up to you to figure them out tho. weapons are already being nerfed left and right because of ppl that cannot adapt and counter and feel the need to complain. thats a big part of the reason this game is failing...

Heinzlee
08-29-2013, 04:48 PM
I love the charge sniper rifle!!
Please... more people should use them.

EASY KILLS.

Valentine
08-29-2013, 04:53 PM
Either nerf the Surge snipers or get them in line with the regular snipers. This one shot one kill is bullchit. A regular Bolter can't shoot someone in the 'chest' and kill them with one shot, so why the hell should the new Surge snipers do it? You've nerfed everything else like the shotty's and LMG's to keep them in line.. well.. the Surge snipers are too OP.

Stop nerfing guns.

Surge weapons are supposed to be powerful, it's not as easy as it looks to use a surge sniper too. You have to predict when the enemy will be out and about because you have a long time to charge it. Would you really want more guns to be nerfed instead of other guns being buffed to be viable???? I think instead of nerfing guns, lets start fixing weaker ones!

Ssdmiddleman
08-29-2013, 04:59 PM
They need to stop nerfing everything.

fang1192
08-29-2013, 05:02 PM
OP needs to shut up and learn to pay attention to his surroundings. The charge glows for gods sake, even while cloaked.


why do ppl consistantly complain about play styles in pvp? theres a counter for every single thing used in pvp. its up to you to figure them out tho. weapons are already being nerfed left and right because of ppl that cannot adapt and counter and feel the need to complain. thats a big part of the reason this game is failing...

Not all the counters are good or even practical/viable.

xDoMx RaZoR
08-29-2013, 05:34 PM
OP needs to shut up and learn to pay attention to his surroundings. The charge glows for gods sake, even while cloaked.



Not all the counters are good or even practical/viable.

number one counter to cloak is decoy but nobody uses it because they dont know how to or when to. also cloak is a good counter to cloak if you know when and how to utilize it. like i said there is a counter to every playstyle. you just need to learn them and use them. Its not like it really matters anyways. things will be different around defiance on tuesday with diablo dropping. I dont know about your server on ps3 but on xbox its turning into a ghost town there was more people playing before the dlc dropped than there is now it seems.

DeadMike
08-29-2013, 05:48 PM
This is why we can't have nice things.

Zippy McPinhead
08-29-2013, 05:51 PM
Nerf This.........

fang1192
08-29-2013, 07:06 PM
number one counter to cloak is decoy but nobody uses it because they dont know how to or when to. also cloak is a good counter to cloak if you know when and how to utilize it. like i said there is a counter to every playstyle. you just need to learn them and use them. Its not like it really matters anyways. things will be different around defiance on tuesday with diablo dropping. I dont know about your server on ps3 but on xbox its turning into a ghost town there was more people playing before the dlc dropped than there is now it seems.

Its so cute that you think Decoy and Sensor Sweep are good counters to cloak.

ten4
08-29-2013, 07:19 PM
Separate PvE and PvE already.

Each should have their own independent gear sets, progression, and rules because I am getting mighty tired of PvE getting nerf b/c of PvP.

If we had old saws around, maybe then sieges would advance past wave 9 more consitantly.

Trik
08-29-2013, 07:20 PM
Either nerf the Surge snipers or get them in line with the regular snipers. This one shot one kill is bullchit. A regular Bolter can't shoot someone in the 'chest' and kill them with one shot, so why the hell should the new Surge snipers do it? You've nerfed everything else like the shotty's and LMG's to keep them in line.. well.. the Surge snipers are too OP.

I'm so very tired of games trying to mix pvp and pve and this post is one example of why.

ten4
08-29-2013, 07:29 PM
You can combine PvE and PvP into one MMO very well. WoWs done it for almost a decade and GW2 this year. This is just to name a few, there is many more examples of well done dual systems.

chilipino
08-29-2013, 07:32 PM
Separate PvE and PvE already.

Each should have their own independent gear sets, progression, and rules because I am getting mighty tired of PvE getting nerf b/c of PvP.

If we had old saws around, maybe then sieges would advance past wave 9 more consitantly.

I share your sentiment regarding PvE & PvP. But, to be fair, the SAW nerf didn't have anything to do with PvP :\

Trik
08-29-2013, 07:55 PM
So you are against the separation of PvP and PvE into individual systems? All the popular MMOs do this. Most devs have learned long ago that a combined system like Defiance is destined for failure and always results in anger from the players. Obviously, Trion did has not learned this.

Anyways, you can combine PvE and PvP into one MMO very well. WoWs done it for almost a decade and GW2 this year. This is just to name a few, there is many more examples of well done dual systems.

If they can do it well, sure. But I've never seen one do it well. WoW is definitely not a good example, PVE and PVP have caused absolute massive headaches in regards to balancing in that game for years, especially after Arena's were introduced. You try to balance both without completely isolated sets of abilities and equipment and you just end up with an endless Nerf-Buff-Nerf marry-go-round that no ones ever really happy with.

It also prevents the introduction of new ability ideas. There were so many creative things they could have done with various classes in WoW that would never even be considered because it would be a headache in pvp.

GW2 isn't a great example either. There were numerous nerfs to PVP that affected PVE badly, one being the stealth nerf that made the skill virtually worthless in PVE, another being a drastic limit on AoE targets that affected the way certain PvE classes farmed and played unintentionally. GW2 pvp is also pretty much a case of which side has the bigger blob as well, it's not exactly a nuanced pvp experience.

Developing entirely seperate sets of abilities and gear for both modes is also it's own can of worms. At that point you are essentially developing two entirely different games that just happen to share some art assets. This is beyond the scope of most companies, game development is not cheap and MMO's are already the biggest of possible money pits for a game studio. I really think it would be far better for some of these mmo's to just not even try, to just pick one game style and focus entirely on that instead of splitting their resources and almost certainly developing a lower quality hybrid product.

I admit though I am also a bit bias against mmorpg style pvp for a couple reasons. for one I really don't think you can have valid competitive play in a game with rpg-like stat based gear that automatically puts one person artificially ahead of another (to say nothing of the cycle of fad of the month builds and class balance). If you want true valid competition then every person on the battlefield should start out the match on the same level and only skill should be the deciding factor. Time played, money spent, luck with drops, how much one has pvp'd, all of that should be irrelevant in a real competitive environment and someone who just started the game 5 minutes ago should have an equal chance to kill someone who has hundreds of hours played time as they do to kill them.

more importantly though, i really don't like the types of people pvp often attracts in these games. plenty of great people love pvp, but it also draws in a certain quality of individual that is not enjoyable to be around. I really want MMO's to go back to being community focused, focusing on co-operation even among complete strangers (Arkfalls are to simplistic for this in my mind, but a baby step in the right direction) and PVP injects an unnecessary and artificial toxin that is not conducive to that. There is literal animosity between some players in WoW purely due to the artificial player base division between Alliance and Horde, Alliance players have even been reported as being physically assaulted at a couple of Blizzcons.

Perhaps my perceptions were shaded by where I started my MMO gaming life, but I've always felt that this genre was at it's best when it focused on building a solid community on each server via co-operation to overcome mutual goals.

Alariea
08-29-2013, 10:58 PM
Immunizers would have been a fair counter to the new charge snipers, but oh wait they got nerfed cuz people were complaining about them being OP in PVP :-)

Maybe rather than nerf the charge sniper rifles, maybe change the mechanics so that some weapon attacks can reset the charging process (knockbacks, explosions, maybe crits). Or for the cloak/charge combo, have getting hit while in cloak reset the charge buildup. This way skilled/alert players who see the charge glow can limit the damage done by someone charging the weapons while cloaked by firing at them. The effect of such a mechanic in PVE should be less as it didn't appear as if mobs react to you while you're charging in cloak, only when you fire (or get hit by stray or lucky shots).

Dracian
08-29-2013, 11:04 PM
This is surprising, I have not the icon showing that I already responded to that thread. And I'm really sure I had already answer to that topic...

Oh wait...

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?129696-Balance-Change

That explains things. Too much butthurt, OP ?

carpesangrea
08-29-2013, 11:05 PM
You can combine PvE and PvP into one MMO very well. WoWs done it for almost a decade and GW2 this year. This is just to name a few, there is many more examples of well done dual systems.


Wow is a horrible example of this...that game still has major balance issues in pvp, and the constant nerf/buff/redress the cat between pvp and pve in that game is nuts.

PitBull76
08-29-2013, 11:06 PM
Either nerf the Surge snipers or get them in line with the regular snipers. This one shot one kill is bullchit. A regular Bolter can't shoot someone in the 'chest' and kill them with one shot, so why the hell should the new Surge snipers do it? You've nerfed everything else like the shotty's and LMG's to keep them in line.. well.. the Surge snipers are too OP.

One shot one kill is kind of the point of a sniper rifle...and it only works for headshots unless the victim has horrible shields.

Bonehead
08-29-2013, 11:32 PM
@ OP
If you try another title and repost perhaps the third time will do the trick

DeadMike
08-29-2013, 11:35 PM
Solution: Make it so weapons have alternate stats that are only in effect while in a PVP instance or shadow war.

mcshulte
08-29-2013, 11:35 PM
sooo, we're comparing a charged sniper to a normal one? isn't the whole point of the charge to add to the effects EX) damage or the shot breaking apart to cover more of a radius? don't compare two different things, that's like comparing a normal fish to a human and saying do something about the fish because it cant walk on land.

xDoMx RaZoR
08-29-2013, 11:46 PM
Why does it matter anyway? This game is in end game. Tuesday it will be more of a ghost town than it already is. Server issues, lag, nothing working properly and all the nerfs have ruined this game. Ive enjoyed this game and always gave it the benefit of the doubt. Im still hoping that it improves and will be worth keeping but im sad to say it looks like it is nearly over for defiance. The e-rep is taking over for sure.

Tekrunner
08-29-2013, 11:46 PM
Okay, so the OP isn't making a very good job at defending his point. But the people who just respond with "nerf = bad!!!! don't nerf anything ever!!!" are not much better.

In my opinion, there is one charge weapon that does need to be nerfed. The Surge Bolter is overpowered in both PvE and PvP. The problem is not really its damage, as it is not higher than most other sniper rifles. But its hip accuracy is absolutely ridiculous. I should just not be able to consistently score headshots on people driving by on their trotter, from the hip. And in PvE it just shreds anything non Volge. With intimidation, put a fully charged shot in the head, then a non charged one while the enemy is flinching. Kills even elite enforcers.

pk3467
08-30-2013, 12:00 AM
I sincerely appreciate your thoughts about balance but I have to question how the cloak is balanced if youre using cloak why would it need to reveal you momentarily when you take a shot. ny biggest gripe about that is simply this. since in the show things like hellbugs are blind and deaf, and operate by scent, how is it that even when using the cloak that they can find youe exact spot at long range when using a weapon like a sniper WITH cloak. or any other enemy except the 99ers and dark matter? since they are enhanced they are the only ones that should be able to find you when using cloak and even then to a very limited extent. frikkin cloak is short lived enough as it is why should there need to be any balance with it. everything ive said applies to the new snipers as well why need for any balance? snipers are SUPPOSED to be one shot one kill weapons. and since according to the show they can go out to 3 kilometers, why should any of them be ****ed with at all?

DeadMike
08-30-2013, 12:34 AM
This game is in end game.
http://i.imgur.com/4KAm7OX.jpg

Rizzlok
08-30-2013, 12:42 AM
i understand people are going to jump ship to d3 on tuesday and im not gona lie i will be picking it up as well but this game will not just drop off the face of the earth it will die if another game comes along with the same ideas as defiance and executes it better.

Atticus Batman
08-30-2013, 01:49 AM
Awesome DLC? The game has had the same game-breaking problems/issues/bugs/glitches since launches, the major game breaking problems that should not have even made it past beta, and you had hope the DLC wasn't going to be a waste of money?! I'm certainly glad I did not waste my money on it.

Trion is handling Defiance like it was their first MMO, didn't they have a prior MMO? Oh wait, they did, it was called Rift and failed rather hard, so hard it had to switch to Free To Play. It's obvious Trion cares nothing about it's customers or fixing their broken games.

My advice to everyone, don't give Trion another cent until they start fixing their s-h-i-t.

Hmm does that mean WoW is an epic failure since they are talking about going Free to play?

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/08/23/world-of-warcraft-eventually-going-free-to-play.aspx

FDG SKULLS
08-30-2013, 02:31 AM
Take it from me tag I BOUGHT THE SEASON PASS and if they dont come out with some actually decent DLC then im going to kick my self in the balls for buying it. DLC 1 COMPLETE waste of my money they could have just made an update with this CRAP OF A SO CALLED DLC.and for the kid CRYING NERF here-

http://rarebirdfinds.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c6d1d53ef0147e0bfbec1970b-300wi

Now go sit in the corner.

carpesangrea
08-30-2013, 02:51 AM
http://i.imgur.com/4KAm7OX.jpg

Inconceivable!

Awesome Jeff
08-30-2013, 02:57 AM
Disagree. They do not need to be nerfed. I do not think they are overpowered one bit, they perform exactly how they are suppose to. For the sake of PvE, I am tired of weapons getting nerfed for PvP. This game is suppose to be PvE with a side of PvP, not the other way around. I really can't believe someone is crying nerf when we get decent guns in the game. Also, why create a second thread about this instead of just bumping the thread you already created about it.

Leave the new snipers alone.

Second that.

The only reasonable way to make PvP an even playing field it is to make it so that a weapon performs the same way for every player, meaning synergies, nanos and weapon bonuses are rendered useless while a weapon is being used in PvP. Also the a players skillevel on weapontypes should not be taken into account while playing PvP.

Similarly all perks should be either unavailable or maxed for every player in PvP.

That way it's all about skill and not luck in a lockbox. Making it possible for a new player to actually have a chance in PvP matches.

Notturno
08-30-2013, 03:31 AM
Disagree. They do not need to be nerfed. I do not think they are overpowered one bit, they perform exactly how they are suppose to. For the sake of PvE, I am tired of weapons getting nerfed for PvP. This game is suppose to be PvE with a side of PvP, not the other way around. I really can't believe someone is crying nerf when we get decent guns in the game. Also, why create a second thread about this instead of just bumping the thread you already created about it.

Leave the new snipers alone.

Respectfully disagree on the portion stating this game is PvE centric. There has been no assertion from anyone at Trion stating one game mode is supported over the other.

As for the balance claim, what weapon changes have occurred?
Rocket Launchers were nerfed, for what reason I am unaware as I was not a testing participant. Regardless, they have been buffed as of the last patch, at least that was the plan. I have not used them lately.
Immunizers had a slight nerf, this was PvP centric. However, I do not know anyone who used Immunizers for anything but PvP. There are far better Infector options for PvE content.
SAWs received a damage nerf based on PvE content, since they had the highest potential DPS in uninterrupted combat. This had a direct impact on SAW users in PvP, where it was a well balanced weapon.
Nano effects were capped at one trigger per 1.5 seconds. Rapid syphon procs were making PvE content trivial due to the amount of healing it returned. The syphon healing and damage was also making certain intelligent players absolute juggernauts in PvP. It was a change needed for the good of the entire game.

Overall, I would not say this game has received balance changes that favor either PvE or PvP. There have been balance changes for both sides of the table. To state that balance changes are being done purely for the sake of PvP is a falsehood, this is absolutely not the case.

Now, as for the charge snipers... I think people are missing the issue entirely. The charge snipers themselves are just fine - you are sacrificing mobility for increased damage. You gain the benefit of incredible damage at the detriment to your mobility and sustained fire. It's a perfectly intuitive design decision. The biggest issue is that you can charge them while cloaked. By cloaking and being able to charge, you are negating the only drawback associated with the weapon, which is exactly why it feels too strong in certain situations. You cannot stop the charge sniper user if you cannot see them (or in reality's case, only see the charge particle effect).

All that really needs to be done is make it so if you start charging, you come out of cloak. My biggest gripe is that it just doesn't have a down side to using it with cloak. Other than that, I think the weapon itself is just fine.

Tandor 64
08-30-2013, 03:34 AM
Disagree. They do not need to be nerfed. I do not think they are overpowered one bit, they perform exactly how they are suppose to. For the sake of PvE, I am tired of weapons getting nerfed for PvP. This game is suppose to be PvE with a side of PvP, not the other way around. I really can't believe someone is crying nerf when we get decent guns in the game. Also, why create a second thread about this instead of just bumping the thread you already created about it.

Leave the new snipers alone.

I AGREE! Quit nerfing guns!

Saw sucks now because people get HUrrrt in PvP. Some advice to all the cry babies

PUT YOUR BIG BOYS PANTS ON AND PLAY THE FREAKN GAME.....

Tekrunner
08-30-2013, 05:06 AM
I AGREE! Quit nerfing guns!

Saw sucks now because people get HUrrrt in PvP. Some advice to all the cry babies

PUT YOUR BIG BOYS PANTS ON AND PLAY THE FREAKN GAME.....

The SAW nerf had nothing or little to do with PvP. Some people keep blaming PvP for it, but that doesn't make it true.
And I stand by my comment that the surge bolter should not have the hip accuracy that it has now. Whether in PvP or PvE.

Dracian
08-30-2013, 05:19 AM
I AGREE! Quit nerfing guns!

Saw sucks now because people get HUrrrt in PvP. Some advice to all the cry babies

PUT YOUR BIG BOYS PANTS ON AND PLAY THE FREAKN GAME.....

If you really think SAW sucks now, I have some bad news for you.

And if you really think SAW was nerfed because of PvP, I suggest you to stop believing every bullsh!t people tell and to actually inform yourself (in other word : read what is written in the PvP sub-forum).

Aaricane
08-30-2013, 05:24 AM
If they keep nerfing weapons, may as well get rid of PVP altogether.
Actually that's probably not a bad idea......

Dracian
08-30-2013, 05:47 AM
If they keep nerfing weapons, may as well get rid of PVP altogether.
Actually that's probably not a bad idea......

Actually, I think getting rid of PvE would be a better idea.

Given how trivial its difficulty is, it's nothing more than a tutorial for PvP.

drifter848
08-30-2013, 06:11 AM
realy with missing arenas broken clan interface and chat severe server issues its the people like you whining about weopon stats that's ruining iit for the people that cant even play there dlc or game if you want pvp go play cod

Tandor 64
08-30-2013, 07:27 AM
If you really think SAW sucks now, I have some bad news for you.

And if you really think SAW was nerfed because of PvP, I suggest you to stop believing every bullsh!t people tell and to actually inform yourself (in other word : read what is written in the PvP sub-forum).

Yea I do believe it because I have a orange saw, had 470 base damage now since the nerf it's 318.......
So it's from experiance.. so I'm informed....BY EXAMPLE.

Tekrunner
08-30-2013, 08:01 AM
Yea I do believe it because I have a orange saw, had 470 base damage now since the nerf it's 318.......
So it's from experiance.. so I'm informed....BY EXAMPLE.

The SAW had its damage reduced by 25%. So you're probably mis-remembering the pre-nerf value. And I don't understand how these numbers allow you to deduce that this nerf occurred because of PvP.

Elric1
08-30-2013, 08:23 AM
Disagree. They do not need to be nerfed. I do not think they are overpowered one bit, they perform exactly how they are suppose to. For the sake of PvE, I am tired of weapons getting nerfed for PvP. This game is suppose to be PvE with a side of PvP, not the other way around. I really can't believe someone is crying nerf when we get decent guns in the game. Also, why create a second thread about this instead of just bumping the thread you already created about it.

Leave the new snipers alone.

Sadly with the statement of PvP being end game most PvE end game would NOT be. They also stated this game is meant to be PvP heavy. So actually you're wrong according to the devs. Then again you are probably right because when was the last time you seen them get ANYTHING right?

Tandor 64
08-30-2013, 08:23 AM
The SAW had its damage reduced by 25%. So you're probably mis-remembering the pre-nerf value. And I don't understand how these numbers allow you to deduce that this nerf occurred because of PvP.

Wasn't meant that it was because of PvP, I read this forms and 80% are people complaining about weapons need nerfed...they other 80% like them, remember 82% of the stats are made up......bottom line, people start complaining and we as players lose what we like. And don't you think 25% reduction IS alot....

Elric1
08-30-2013, 08:27 AM
Actually, I think getting rid of PvE would be a better idea.

Given how trivial its difficulty is, it's nothing more than a tutorial for PvP.

Well since PvP is complete garbage in this game and beyond trivial what's left to blame when both parts of the game sucks?

Trik
08-30-2013, 08:28 AM
Sadly with the statement of PvP being end game most PvE end game would NOT be. They also stated this game is meant to be PvP heavy. So actually you're wrong according to the devs. Then again you are probably right because when was the last time you seen them get ANYTHING right?

I've really seen no evidence that PvP is a large part of the game. I've been more than fine completely ignoring it on the whole and not felt at all like I was missing anything important. PvP seems thoroughly optional in Defiance, and pretty much irrelevant to the PVE side of the game.

Aaricane
08-30-2013, 09:31 AM
Actually, I think getting rid of PvE would be a better idea.

Given how trivial its difficulty is, it's nothing more than a tutorial for PvP.Without PVP this game would keep going just fine.
Without PVE, this game would die within 3 days.

fang1192
08-30-2013, 09:32 AM
Yea I do believe it because I have a orange saw, had 470 base damage now since the nerf it's 318.......
So it's from experiance.. so I'm informed....BY EXAMPLE.

By that logic the Thunder got buffed because of PvP.

Collector
08-30-2013, 09:35 AM
Disagree. They do not need to be nerfed. I do not think they are overpowered one bit, they perform exactly how they are suppose to. For the sake of PvE, I am tired of weapons getting nerfed for PvP. This game is suppose to be PvE with a side of PvP, not the other way around. I really can't believe someone is crying nerf when we get decent guns in the game. Also, why create a second thread about this instead of just bumping the thread you already created about it.

Leave the new snipers alone.

What he said

Troy Shepard
08-30-2013, 09:49 AM
Either nerf the Surge snipers or get them in line with the regular snipers. This one shot one kill is bullchit. A regular Bolter can't shoot someone in the 'chest' and kill them with one shot, so why the hell should the new Surge snipers do it? You've nerfed everything else like the shotty's and LMG's to keep them in line.. well.. the Surge snipers are too OP.

Disagree. These rifles serve their purpose well. Plus keep in mind, the skill set-up can give very nice boost to sniping along with the synergy and mods attached to the rifle.

Torryn Woodsrunner
08-30-2013, 10:11 AM
Ever been behind the scope of a sniper rifle? Do you know anyone who has?

One shot, one kill. That's how it's supposed to work. Otherwise, you're not doing your job.

Leave the sniper rifles alone.

Troy Shepard
08-30-2013, 10:46 AM
By that logic the Thunder got buffed because of PvP.

Did it get a buff??? I was using it last night and it still had the base DMG of 202...But I did notice the increased recoil.

Evolution
08-30-2013, 11:16 AM
Either nerf the Surge snipers or get them in line with the regular snipers. This one shot one kill is bullchit. A regular Bolter can't shoot someone in the 'chest' and kill them with one shot, so why the hell should the new Surge snipers do it? You've nerfed everything else like the shotty's and LMG's to keep them in line.. well.. the Surge snipers are too OP.

Wait!

What?

A Volge charge sniper does more damage then a BOLT ACTION RIFLE? IMPOSSIBLE! Oh hell no! That gun definitely needs to be nerfed! I'm thinking it should act more like a manual action BB-gun.

I have an idea! They should tweak them so when your charging a gun you have to stop, get down on your knees and stroke the barrel faster and faster until your ready to fire! And when you do shoot your gun, it should only do damage if you hit them in the eye... or get it up their nose.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cicuta Lupus
08-30-2013, 11:19 AM
Wait!

What?

A Volge charge sniper does more damage then a BOLT ACTION RIFLE? IMPOSSIBLE! Oh hell no! That gun definitely needs to be nerfed! I'm thinking it should act more like a manual action BB-gun.

I have an idea! They should tweak them so when your charging a gun you have to stop, get down on your knees and stroke the barrel faster and faster until your ready to fire! And when you do shoot your gun, it should only do damage if you hit them in the eye... or get it up their nose.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

This... I love it. Made me laugh, I needed that.

Evolution
08-30-2013, 11:22 AM
This... I love it. Made me laugh, I needed that.

I live to serve! ;)

Astra Lux
08-30-2013, 11:49 AM
Please don't cry for a NERF, instead look forward to getting one for yourself and reap the benefits.

Daas
08-30-2013, 11:51 AM
Either nerf the Surge snipers or get them in line with the regular snipers. This one shot one kill is bullchit. A regular Bolter can't shoot someone in the 'chest' and kill them with one shot, so why the hell should the new Surge snipers do it? You've nerfed everything else like the shotty's and LMG's to keep them in line.. well.. the Surge snipers are too OP.


Nerf Rock, Paper is fine.

Thanks,
Scissors

Mess7739
08-30-2013, 12:07 PM
http://i.imgur.com/4KAm7OX.jpg

I agree, people are all fire and brimstone about the end coming for Defiance but then they complain about being number 12K in a que for the game. The game has issues certainly but I like playing and am willing to "wait" it out, its a video game. I also feel strongly about the anti-NERF for weapons because people in PvE/PvP can't figure out how to try different tactics or use Teamspeak or Ventrilo to coordinate an attack/defense. Maybe instead of NERFing everything, Trion can look into some form vocal communication between players in game. Nah lol that would get messed up, it'll be better to just purchase a headset and try TS or Vent.

PseudoCool
08-30-2013, 12:14 PM
Ever been behind the scope of a sniper rifle? Do you know anyone who has?

One shot, one kill. That's how it's supposed to work. Otherwise, you're not doing your job.

Leave the sniper rifles alone.

BTDT.. and your absolutely right.

The problem we're facing here in PvE land, is that the PvP crowd seem to hate on anything that involves the use of CLOAK. It's not really the weapon (for now), but it's the Ego Power that is in question. So, let's break this down for people to understand better:

1. EVERY WEAPON that was either nerfed or removed prior to launch, was done at the expense of the PvP aspect of this game for balance. The only one I can remember that wasn't off the top of my head was the VoT Plasma Pulser, and as much as many of us loved it, we pretty much unanimously agreed it was OP. This nerf state also includes the pre-launch nerf done to LMG's, Rocket Launchers (which where nerfed into uselessness for PvE), and several of the Detonators.

2. Since launch, the nerf bat has swung a few times.. some over the radar, and some under. All of these, with the exception of the FRC SAW nerf, where in response to PvP requests and complaints from various players on these forums. The FRC SAW nerf was supposedly to "balance the LMG class", but was rather just a nerf since none of the other LMG's that where NEVER USED by players where buffed in any
way. Well, yeah, they where.. the Disruptor now looks really cool, so I guess that's a cosmetic buff :)

3. Looking at HISTORY of this game (and pretty much every other true MMO out there that has both PvE and PvP in the last 20 years).. the average playerbase that is solely PvP-centered in any game that has both systems generally falls between 10 and 15 PERCENT of the entire playerbase. This means between 85 to 90% are playing either both PvP and PvE, or just solely PvE. Industry standards show that solely PvE-centric playerbases in any give game are generally upwards of 45 to 55%. This means that even if the Dev's somewhere, somehow, in some far off and imagined universe said that Defiance was meant to be the PvP mecca that people are touting them to have said, the playerbase numbers will ALWAYS show otherwise. Btw, been here since NOVEMBER, and I've never seen a post where the Dev or anyone else has said that Defiance was meant to be a PvP-centric game, so if someone can show me what I missed, I'd appreciate it. :)

The short, hard, and shallow reality of this game is simple: PvP and PvE will NEVER have a balance between them. There will ALWAYS be someone who's going to complain about this Ego power or perk, or about this or that weapon, be it OP or UP. This is just the way gaming works, and has for years. However, constantly asking for weapons to be nerfed, then complaining that weapons don't do enough damage against even the often quoted "easy mode NPC's" is getting a bit like wearing dirty skivvy's..

Bobbyieboy
08-30-2013, 12:29 PM
No

That is all.

Mess7739
08-30-2013, 12:29 PM
Seriously how does a sawn-off shotgun do the more damage than a rocket launcher?

http://www.defiancedata.com/weapon/m=14_r=_e=_s=_me=_b=_ego=.jpg (http://www.defiancedata.com/weapons.php?m=14&r=&e=&s=&me=&b=&mods=&ego=)

http://www.defiancedata.com/weapon/m=101_r=_e=_s=_me=_b=_ego=.jpg (http://www.defiancedata.com/weapons.php?m=101&r=&e=&s=&me=&b=&mods=&ego=)

Tyger
08-30-2013, 12:33 PM
Op's posting privileges need a nerf >.>

PseudoCool
08-30-2013, 12:40 PM
Seriously how does a sawn-off shotgun do the more damage than a rocket launcher?

http://www.defiancedata.com/weapon/m=14_r=_e=_s=_me=_b=_ego=.jpg (http://www.defiancedata.com/weapons.php?m=14&r=&e=&s=&me=&b=&mods=&ego=)

http://www.defiancedata.com/weapon/m=101_r=_e=_s=_me=_b=_ego=.jpg (http://www.defiancedata.com/weapons.php?m=101&r=&e=&s=&me=&b=&mods=&ego=)

Well.. let's see.. you can do 1200 damage at up to what.. 70 meters.. with a FRC Rocket Pod.. and don't do it close or you'll take that pop as well.. and it's an AoE, so you can damage more than one target for that amount. Or.. you can do 1900x2 (if you hit both barrels) on a target at about 5 to 10 meters, and it's not an AoE. Hmm.. compare apples to oranges much? :)

Mess7739
08-30-2013, 01:07 PM
Well.. let's see.. you can do 1200 damage at up to what.. 70 meters.. with a FRC Rocket Pod.. and don't do it close or you'll take that pop as well.. and it's an AoE, so you can damage more than one target for that amount. Or.. you can do 1900x2 (if you hit both barrels) on a target at about 5 to 10 meters, and it's not an AoE. Hmm.. compare apples to oranges much? :)

Solid slugs doing more damage than an explosive at any range and it takes longer to load shotgun shells than a rocket, thats not apples or oranges, thats lame.

Peavstar
08-30-2013, 02:16 PM
Actually, I think getting rid of PvE would be a better idea.

Given how trivial its difficulty is, it's nothing more than a tutorial for PvP.


If this is what you want go play Call of Duty. I hate to break the news but a lot of the top players on the game don't even play PvP.

JxSiN
08-30-2013, 02:21 PM
If this is what you want go play Call of Duty. I hate to break the news but a lot of the top players on the game don't even play PvP.

I agree with this statement. Pvp is such a small population of the playerbase, even counting the players who just do it on the side.

Desolis
08-30-2013, 07:25 PM
I've used the Surge Bolter in PVP, it's not one shot to the body. Charging it barely increases the damage output, just a greater chance of hitting your target. Unless the player hits headshots, it takes 2-4 shots.

Valaska
08-30-2013, 09:07 PM
Just fix the VOT Fragger and they'll pop up again, less sniper rifles more shotguns.

PseudoCool
08-30-2013, 09:54 PM
Since this is like the 3rd thread started by the same person, for the same complaint.. can we get it locked and moved now? Isn't starting multiple threads a no-no on these forums anymore? :)

Atticus Batman
08-30-2013, 10:36 PM
Sadly with the statement of PvP being end game most PvE end game would NOT be. They also stated this game is meant to be PvP heavy. So actually you're wrong according to the devs. Then again you are probably right because when was the last time you seen them get ANYTHING right?

Actually they ALWAYS stated that at it's CORE, Defiance is PVE. They were just nice enough to give us a side of PVP, so we could take a break from PvE.

Think of PvP as a battle simulator for the main PVE game and there you go.