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View Full Version : So is Defiance a true MMO?



Aaricane
01-22-2013, 08:15 AM
As in along the lines of World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, and RIFT, complete with major cities, hundreds of players, huge world to explore, etc??

Or is it pretty much a free roam type world with only a set amount of players such as Red Dead Redemption?

Either way, the game is a definite buy for me, but more so if it's a TRUE MMO.

Laughter
01-22-2013, 08:17 AM
As in along the lines of World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, and RIFT, complete with major cities, hundreds of players, huge world to explore, etc??

Or is it pretty much a free roam type world with only a set amount of players such as Red Dead Redemption?

Either way, the game is a definite buy for me, but more so if it's a TRUE MMO.

As far as I know it's a "True MMO."

Aaricane
01-22-2013, 08:24 AM
As far as I know it's a "True MMO." Good to know. I had heard from several unreliable people that it was more like a 64 player Red Dead Redemption type game.

Rayn
01-22-2013, 08:32 AM
As in along the lines of World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, and RIFT, complete with major cities, hundreds of players, huge world to explore, etc??

Or is it pretty much a free roam type world with only a set amount of players such as Red Dead Redemption?

Either way, the game is a definite buy for me, but more so if it's a TRUE MMO.


Defiance is a "true" mmo.

DuoMaxwell007
01-22-2013, 08:37 AM
Good to know. I had heard from several unreliable people that it was more like a 64 player Red Dead Redemption type game.

its a true MMO.. the MMO youre probably thinking of is Dust 514 which is just a buncha 32vs32 battles whos outcomes have an affect on a TRUE mmo (eve online)

Garracuda
01-22-2013, 08:45 AM
I'm excited to see just how big the world is. I'm also curious as to how many safe towns there will be.

Aaricane
01-22-2013, 08:48 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone. Really looking forward to this game.

I'm also curious to see if they implement RIFTS Zone Invasion

Doc
01-22-2013, 08:51 AM
Good to know. I had heard from several unreliable people that it was more like a 64 player Red Dead Redemption type game.

I hope its nothing like that, it would be a true disappointment to state the least.

Krazee DD
01-22-2013, 09:08 AM
I hope its nothing like that, it would be a true disappointment to state the least.

Its not like that.

You will be one quests and see other people doing quests. When the big PvE battles happen you will see tons of people rushing to slay the enemies.

Its MMO.

Aaricane
01-22-2013, 09:10 AM
Its not like that.

You will be one quests and see other people doing quests. When the big PvE battles happen you will see tons of people rushing to slay the enemies.

Its MMO. So basically RIFT with guns?

Krazee DD
01-22-2013, 09:20 AM
So basically RIFT with guns?

Thats what mu buddies have been saying, but I never played Rift so I cant comment.

It felt like a starter area in WoW after the release on an expansion.

Tzar of kaos
01-22-2013, 09:26 AM
So basically RIFT with guns?

As far as i know Rift is a MMORPG and Defiance will be a MMOTPS...both are massively multiplayers online.

Viciouz
01-22-2013, 09:28 AM
So basically RIFT with guns?

dont care, played it, loved it imo i cant wait!

Kobolt
01-22-2013, 09:37 AM
The Game has a very action paced Feel. its not like basic MMO schemes where you sit and press a few keys, or where the winner is the one who brings the biggest boots. In this game, you need some strategy in your fighting, and it also reduces the possibilities of people following a "build". Its sorta like how The Secret World (good game) Removed Classes all together and allowed people to master either a select few powers or even all of them.

lycrates
01-22-2013, 09:43 AM
As far as i know Rift is a MMORPG and Defiance will be a MMOTPS...both are massively multiplayers online.

Yeah, Defiance is NOTHING like World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, and RIFT.

Trion has clearly stated that Defiance is a SHOOTER FIRST and not really an MMORPG.

If you are expecting a MMORPG you will be sadly disappointed. If you are expecting a great MMO Shooter, then you will probably enjoy Defiance.

THIS IS NOT RIFT WITH GUNS. not by a long shot and Trion has been very clear about that.

Mantiss
01-22-2013, 10:05 AM
For anyone who has watched the Twitch TV streams and listened to the devs, Defiance is a true MMO. With seamless phasing for everything they've shown us in the open world that "caps" players in that given area based on the scaling. So you won't go into an area and have it trivialized because 100+ people are all raiding the same base,

Instead it phases you into that area and caps to what is approrpriate.

As for big cities and such, I'm assuming they have something but haven't seen or heard anything on the streams.

The only time I saw "zoning" on the Twitch TV stream was for boss areas. One was literally a zone-in to the actual boss encounter area and another was a zone into like an underground base. So it seems like those are hard instances, meaning you must be grouped for everyone to be in the same instance.

If you can, watch the Trion Twitch TV streams, I learn more from those then anything else.

Laughter
01-22-2013, 10:12 AM
You're gonna need to practice them aiming skills.

Aaricane
01-22-2013, 10:15 AM
Yeah, Defiance is NOTHING like World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, and RIFT.

Trion has clearly stated that Defiance is a SHOOTER FIRST and not really an MMORPG.

If you are expecting a MMORPG you will be sadly disappointed. If you are expecting a great MMO Shooter, then you will probably enjoy Defiance.

THIS IS NOT RIFT WITH GUNS. not by a long shot and Trion has been very clear about that.The "RIFT with Guns" statement was more meant for random world encounters.

And i think it's pretty clear that Defiance will not be like other MMORPGs. I was referring to more of the base model of the game.

For Example:

Hundreds of people in the world or just a large free roam map?
Will there be "dungeons" in the world?
Will there be End Game content?
Will we be able to join parties?

And so on so forth.

Valethar
01-22-2013, 01:14 PM
As in along the lines of World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, and RIFT, complete with major cities, hundreds of players, huge world to explore, etc??

Or is it pretty much a free roam type world with only a set amount of players such as Red Dead Redemption?

Either way, the game is a definite buy for me, but more so if it's a TRUE MMO.

You appear to have a problem with the definition of MMO. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. As such, yes, Defiance is a true MMO.

You might be confusing MMORPG with MMOTPS, or any other MMO. There are several genres involved with 'MMO', and defining them strictly within the confines of WoW, Rift and other MMORPGs is why you appear to be confused.

Aaricane
01-22-2013, 01:21 PM
I think maybe i wasn't clear enough in my original post when i started this. Basically i wanted to know if it was in a world with lots of players, or a small world with only 64 players.

Krazee DD
01-22-2013, 01:26 PM
I think maybe i wasn't clear enough in my original post when i started this. Basically i wanted to know if it was in a world with lots of players, or a small world with only 64 players.


People just like to tell other people that they are wrong, so they will come up with random stuff to justify a post.

MMORPG or MMOTPS had nothing to do with the question you asked, yet people feel the need to bring it up. Weird.

DuoMaxwell007
01-22-2013, 01:50 PM
umm LARGE open world to explore, interacting with hundreds of players at once, skilling up/leveling up, massive pvp fight, massive and non massive pve fights, tpowns/outposts, looting bosses and going on raids, dungeon crawling.... it seems to have Everything WoW and Rift has the only difference is combat is done in typical third person shooter fashion instead of... auto attack while clicking/spamming away at hotbar/hotkeys while waiting for them to refresh... that being said how is "WoW with guns NOT accurate"?

Galadeon
01-22-2013, 02:08 PM
I think maybe i wasn't clear enough in my original post when i started this. Basically i wanted to know if it was in a world with lots of players, or a small world with only 64 players.

Large open world like your Tradiaitonal WoW, rift, EverQuest, etc. with missions, and large scale events.
Instanced 5-man PvE "dungeons" that you queue for.
Instanced PvP battles that you can queue for.
Open world PvP in the main world that you can Opt into from the game menus.

Many, many, many people in the main open world.

Valethar
01-22-2013, 02:13 PM
MMORPG or MMOTPS had nothing to do with the question you asked, yet people feel the need to bring it up. Weird.

He asked if Defiance was a 'True MMO', then went on to define that by comparing it to three MMORPGs. Since Defiance is not an MMORPG, and is by definition an MMO, the answers given were quite in keeping with the question asked.

Aaricane
01-22-2013, 02:14 PM
He asked if Defiance was a 'True MMO', then went on to define that by comparing it to three MMORPGs. Since Defiance is not an MMORPG, and is by definition an MMO, the answers given were quite in keeping with the question asked.Go read my posting again, and all previous ones please.

Krazee DD
01-22-2013, 02:21 PM
He asked if Defiance was a 'True MMO', then went on to define that by comparing it to three MMORPGs. Since Defiance is not an MMORPG, and is by definition an MMO, the answers given were quite in keeping with the question asked.

He wasn't comparing gameplay.

He was looking for amount of players with a vast open world. Those games are similar to Defiance in that way. In NO WAY was he asking if the gameplay was similar. Hence "MMO"


I dont see how you can misinterpret that? What he asks for is pretty clear.

cab0218
01-22-2013, 03:03 PM
I may need to preorder this game it sound really good. Im still on the fence though.

DomuS
01-22-2013, 04:43 PM
It is. It has massive amount of players, a massive world, quests, RPG elements, grouping/socialization etc.

I would call it a MMOTPS with RPG elements.

DefiantFury
01-25-2013, 08:45 PM
I've played WoW, SWTOR, and GW2. But I'm a console & shooter gamer at heart. I really hope this game can deliver the console shooter mmo I've been craving for years.

Myll_Erik
01-25-2013, 09:07 PM
I think the best way to describe Defiance to someone would be to say "Open World Third Person Shooter ++"

Mouglea
01-25-2013, 10:08 PM
Having played the first test weekend i will safely say Defiance is awesome and has the potential to be many great things rolled all together shooter, exploration,pve content and story what i play tested for quests and story i liked very much. and you can find all kinds of interesting things tucked away here and there. i heard they plan instances and group like raid dungeons or zones and of course there are the ark falls and the tv show/game event quests and dn't forget there PvP so there seems to be plenty to do for everyone.

Fiancee
01-26-2013, 12:32 AM
Ive played beta couple hour and I'd say yes its, people drive with their vehicles everywhere. Also lots of quests where others can join and do together. (public quest..)

Usurper
01-26-2013, 04:05 AM
So basically RIFT with guns?

It's nothing like Rift with guns.

This is a console FPS, akin to COD. It has the same kind of progression as Call of Duty, don't expect something like what you get in Rift or any other mmo.

hatemail
01-26-2013, 06:26 AM
True mmo and open world I really wish to get in on the pvp next beta or just when the game releases because I didn't get time to play during last open weekend. Would like to see how well the third person shooter is for pvp, compared to cod or bf3 which I have over 1k hours on.

IGears
01-26-2013, 08:26 AM
Should be a house rule to ban the use of CoD or BF3 in a MMO forum.

Obsidian
01-26-2013, 08:31 AM
Good to know. I had heard from several unreliable people that it was more like a 64 player Red Dead Redemption type game.

What you heard is completely wrong. Testing vids show thousands of players in 1 small area. Let alone server.

Obsidian
01-26-2013, 08:34 AM
It's nothing like Rift with guns.

This is a console FPS, akin to COD. It has the same kind of progression as Call of Duty, don't expect something like what you get in Rift or any other mmo.

Wrong.... so wrong.... Sooooo soooo Wrong.

Thousands of players per server per area, Guilds, Clans, Full on pvp instanced ranked games, open world pvp, Your classes are just like rift classes, You build your own out of several paths avalible. Shhsh where did you get your information?

Aaricane
01-26-2013, 08:41 AM
What you heard is completely wrong. Testing vids show thousands of players in 1 small area. Let alone server.Well in their defense, the Xbox version did state 1-64 players.
Luckily its been confirmed that the info was incorrect.

WarMad2
01-26-2013, 08:45 AM
I think the best way to describe Defiance to someone would be to say "Open World Third Person Shooter ++"

What Myll said! I think a lot of people are trying to refrain their best from speaking out what the game is like from playing the BETA, but know they cant really talk about it lol...

IGears
01-26-2013, 08:52 AM
What Myll said! I think a lot of people are trying to refrain their best from speaking out what the game is like from playing the BETA, but know they cant really talk about it lol...

yep. you will see how epic it will be when you are rushing to your first arkfall.

SteelPaladin
01-26-2013, 09:13 AM
if taken literally Massive Multiplayer Online(MMO), then yes its a true MMO.

Usurper
01-26-2013, 09:20 AM
Wrong.... so wrong.... Sooooo soooo Wrong.

Thousands of players per server per area, Guilds, Clans, Full on pvp instanced ranked games, open world pvp, Your classes are just like rift classes, You build your own out of several paths avalible. Shhsh where did you get your information?


What exactly is your definition of open world pvp? It means PVP anywhere, anytime, in the open world, such is not the case here. Opt in pvp matches in very small specific areas of the world is not open world pvp, it's akin to instanced pvp.

Pvp ranked instanced games - Now it sounds like Defiance, and every other fps out there.

So we have from your list instanced pvp and potentially clans, oh and some form of class system (perks). Defiance is gonna break records!!!

DuoMaxwell007
01-26-2013, 09:44 AM
What exactly is your definition of open world pvp?


Shadow Wars


take s place in the open world... you can be out exploring, grinding solo and look and see these wars taking place, and you have the option to ignore them and continue doing what you were doing, or walk right into it and get involved... sounds uninstanced to me

Usurper
01-26-2013, 10:01 AM
Shadow Wars


take s place in the open world... you can be out exploring, grinding solo and look and see these wars taking place, and you have the option to ignore them and continue doing what you were doing, or walk right into it and get involved... sounds uninstanced to me

A location spot on the map, you go to it, opt in take part, and then you pvp with other people within the specified area who also opted in to take part. Sounds exactly like instancing to me. So what if you're not part of an actual instance, it all works out exactly the same.

Daskre
01-26-2013, 11:12 AM
I'd like to know why people want "true" open-world pvp. All it does is promote ganking and that takes the fun out of it for most players. PvP is always difficult to implement because most of the time half of the players will be annoyed because they lost (except for those guys who actually like losing and "being challenged") - making it open-world is an invite for killjoys. That's just my thoughts - I yet have to hear a compelling reason (from a game design perspective that is aimed at making a fun game for everybody) in favor of "open world pvp".

DuoMaxwell007
01-26-2013, 11:16 AM
I'd like to know why people want "true" open-world pvp. All it does is promote ganking and that takes the fun out of it for most players. PvP is always difficult to implement because most of the time half of the players will be annoyed because they lost (except for those guys who actually like losing and "being challenged") - making it open-world is an invite for killjoys. That's just my thoughts - I yet have to hear a compelling reason (from a game design perspective that is aimed at making a fun game for everybody) in favor of "open world pvp".

avoiding ganking is easy... get better.. i like a little advertisty to help me play better and stay on edge.. if getting better isnt an option.. make friends... not hard really.

Aaricane
01-26-2013, 11:30 AM
avoiding ganking is easy... get better.. i like a little advertisty to help me play better and stay on edge.. if getting better isnt an option.. make friends... not hard really.

Having your lvl 5 getting rollled by say a lvl 60, will not help you play bettter when you have a 0% survival chance.

DuoMaxwell007
01-26-2013, 11:40 AM
Having your lvl 5 getting rollled by say a lvl 60, will not help you play bettter when you have a 0% survival chance.

in a game thats a "shooter first" skill > level. level might give them a huge advantage but skill is always gonna win... for example space cowboy online.. is an MMO air combat game.. I took down level 50-70 ships at level 10 because the combat was real time.. sure i had to shoot em for 15 minutes to kill them whereas 1-2 hits from them would be enough to finish me.. however I could outfly them so getting hit that 1-2 times wasnt going to happen.

now if this were an rpg where the combat inst real time and stats determine whether or not you hit an opponent and whether or not you dodge THEN in that case yes a level 5 would NEVER have a chance against a level 60 (unless of course he had a high level friends.. or LOT of low level friends)

Brin Stark
01-26-2013, 12:01 PM
Roger that. I'm in.

D351
01-26-2013, 12:22 PM
Duo has a good point. It really would depend on how strong an effect level has. That said, if the effect isn't strong enough, the mmo aspect will get very boring quickly. That said open world pvp would work better than arranged pvp for some noobs. I can imagine sneaking around and sniping higher level characters, and it definitely has a certain allure.

Brin Stark
01-26-2013, 12:25 PM
Testing settings. Will edit

DuoMaxwell007
01-26-2013, 12:27 PM
Duo has a good point. It really would depend on how strong an effect level has. That said, if the effect isn't strong enough, the mmo aspect will get very boring quickly. That said open world pvp would work better than arranged pvp for some noobs. I can imagine sneaking around and sniping higher level characters, and it definitely has a certain allure.

yeah out numbered or out gunned doesnt always mean youll lose... I beat a whole squad of 8 in socom 2 while i was the last man standing on my squad (no respawn in socom)... after I noticed i was alone.. and were in a Jungle those a lotta heavy foliage and cover.. my metal gear solid insticnts took over and i stealthfully and systematically took them all down one by one

D351
01-26-2013, 12:32 PM
Another issue would be making sure that it is VERY easy to tell if someone's higher lvl than yourself and by how much. You've got to know what you're up against.

DuoMaxwell007
01-26-2013, 12:55 PM
Another issue would be making sure that it is VERY easy to tell if someone's higher lvl than yourself and by how much. You've got to know what you're up against.


not if you fight EVERY battle like its one you could lose.. even if the player in question is 20 levels lower than me... i dont need to know that. Im still gonna take it seriously, fight and act as ive hes 100 levels higher than me and give him everything Ive got lol

D351
01-26-2013, 01:00 PM
I don't want to waste my precious rocket launcher ammo on every noob I happen across. It's bad strategy to play your hardest constantly.

DuoMaxwell007
01-26-2013, 01:26 PM
I don't want to waste my precious rocket launcher ammo on every noob I happen across. It's bad strategy to play your hardest constantly.

because ammo is difficult to come buy in shooters :p

Usurper
01-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Duo has a good point. It really would depend on how strong an effect level has. That said, if the effect isn't strong enough, the mmo aspect will get very boring quickly. That said open world pvp would work better than arranged pvp for some noobs. I can imagine sneaking around and sniping higher level characters, and it definitely has a certain allure.

Except there isn't any actual levels, just an ego rating that you can't see. The entire world is basically set to a flat difficulty level, so no, that alure won't be there. I expect it all to be quite boring. No progression is boring.

DuoMaxwell007
01-26-2013, 01:57 PM
Except there isn't any actual levels, just an ego rating that you can't see. The entire world is basically set to a flat difficulty level, so no, that alure won't be there. I expect it all to be quite boring. No progression is boring.

EGO rating is just another word for levels imho.. i mean i DC universe you could hit max level in 8 hours.. after that you progressed by upping your combat rating... a level 30 with a low combat rating is significantly weaker than a level 30 with a high combat rating so technically you could call the 30 with low rating level 30 and level 30 with high rating would be the equivalent of a level 60.

Im sure EGO rating is exactly the same.. just because it doesnt SAY level doesnt mean it doesnt work like one.. Im sure there will be events that ppl of low EGO ratings wont be able to do because theyd be too weak to survive etc etc

shuckydarns
01-26-2013, 02:26 PM
Except there isn't any actual levels, just an ego rating that you can't see. The entire world is basically set to a flat difficulty level, so no, that alure won't be there. I expect it all to be quite boring. No progression is boring.

Perhaps a certain EGO rating is required to carry better weapons? From the live streams it seems like the weapons system is similar to Borderlands 2, which I think is a good thing.

I feel like Trion would know that some sort of progression would be vital to the longevity of its game, especially a shooter. Until I see otherwise (we don't know everything about this game at the moment) I'm going to stay optimistic.

Usurper
01-26-2013, 03:47 PM
Perhaps a certain EGO rating is required to carry better weapons? From the live streams it seems like the weapons system is similar to Borderlands 2, which I think is a good thing.

I feel like Trion would know that some sort of progression would be vital to the longevity of its game, especially a shooter. Until I see otherwise (we don't know everything about this game at the moment) I'm going to stay optimistic.

Plenty of gaming company giants have fallen due to stupid decisions. In fact it's becoming commonplace.

SteelPaladin
01-26-2013, 03:58 PM
ppl being asked to accept incomplete MMO content has always plagued this genre. Since this games intial revenue reclaimation will be from preorders and box sales, then this goes free to play w micro transactions. Seem to be the new norm, i think strictly sub mmos are the way of the past, but that doesnt mean its a better model for the consumer.
Bottomline, this game was made to make money for the company.(period)
If you have fun along the way, kudos. If all the promises spoken are delivered, kudos.
Gaming is, and always be, a high margin electronics hobby. Same reason a 1200.00 Bose stereo system only costs 1/10 of that to make, but is way upcharged.
Marketing is the first initial charge to generate hype, then cash in w box sales.

Fireswraith
01-27-2013, 03:15 PM
I think the best way to describe Defiance to someone would be to say "Open World Third Person Shooter ++"

I couldn't have really said it better. I'll no doubt get flak for this but oh well, Jack Nickolson's infamous "you can't handle the truth" phrase comes to mind.

I see that many people want to call this a true MMO, it's really not; at least not in the context I think most people are using. This isn't going to be like Rift, or WoW, or WAR, or SWTOR, etc... so if that kind of experiance is what you're hoping for then you'll be disappointed. So if you're using these other games as a reference to call Defiance an MMO/true MMO, then you would be incorrect. Defiance will be more similar to PlanetSide 2, except with a more PvE focus. Similarities to "traditional" MMO's (Rift and the like) is what Defiance has.

Tzar of kaos
01-27-2013, 03:43 PM
I didn't play Defiance yet,but the way i see it, it's a massively multiplayers online red faction guerrilla with better stuffs in it and pvp and others features....

DuoMaxwell007
01-27-2013, 04:55 PM
I couldn't have really said it better. I'll no doubt get flak for this but oh well, Jack Nickolson's infamous "you can't handle the truth" phrase comes to mind.

I see that many people want to call this a true MMO, it's really not; at least not in the context I think most people are using. This isn't going to be like Rift, or WoW, or WAR, or SWTOR, etc... so if that kind of experiance is what you're hoping for then you'll be disappointed. So if you're using these other games as a reference to call Defiance an MMO/true MMO, then you would be incorrect. Defiance will be more similar to PlanetSide 2, except with a more PvE focus. Similarities to "traditional" MMO's (Rift and the like) is what Defiance has.

I recall planetside 1 being everquest with guns pretty much

D351
01-27-2013, 06:07 PM
I think that a lot of this convo should be re-evaluated in light of this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

IGears
01-27-2013, 08:58 PM
I think that a lot of this convo should be re-evaluated in light of this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

lol no true MMO

Trion said in their own video: What is Defiance "Defiance is a third person shooter first, MMO second."

trying not to plagiarize