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View Full Version : Community Ideas, why are they ignored?



Zugo
09-05-2013, 10:55 AM
Please let us know if we are wasting our time with suggestions and ideas.

As new, and future content is rolled out and previewed I can’t help but think that player suggested content is being ignored for the sake of originality. I say that in the sense that I believe the development team is not looking to the community for new ideas because the idea is not originating internally.

Does DLC2 have some interesting content? Yes, the new Arkfalls look fun and may bring players together in an effort to share resources. My issue stems from the DLC excluding any community developed, or requested content.

There have been countless ideas for new content, and enhancement right here on the forums, but I’ve yet to see anything materialize in game. We collaborate with each other in threads, and develop some pretty great ideas. Are we wasting our collective creativity with our suggestions? Is there a secret place we can whisper so that our idea can become yours?

Sanguinesun
09-05-2013, 10:57 AM
Please let us know if we are wasting our time with suggestions and ideas.



I think it is unreasonable to even remotely think they would come out and say "Zugo, we dont care one iota". Instead you will be told the opposite but the actions that led you to think we are wasting out time will continue. Its been one of the few consistent things for 5 months now about the project, sadly.

Xaearth
09-05-2013, 10:57 AM
It's a depressing thought, but you eventually have to come to the conclusion and realization that the DLC content was planned months ago.

If you remember, DLC1 was originally slated to release shortly after launch... which means they had to at least be into or even through the initial/planning stages of DLC2 way back then...

Zugo
09-05-2013, 10:59 AM
It's a depressing thought, but you eventually have to come to the conclusion and realization that the DLC content was planned months ago.

If you remember, DLC1 was originally slated to release shortly after launch... which means they had to at least be into or even through the initial/planning stages of DLC2 way back then...

I get that, but there are definitely things within DLC2 that were not part of what was laid out months ago....

Case in fact , GrenadeGate.

Sanguinesun
09-05-2013, 11:03 AM
Well at the moment they cant answer anything anyway since 2 of the 3 CTeam are busy doing the Rift Infinity gate previewing on Twitch

http://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds

They cant be in all places at once :P Dahanese was talking about how she likes the pretty colors of the raid atm hehe.

PseudoCool
09-05-2013, 11:03 AM
I'm going to point this out -

At the VERY START of the PAX DLC2 demo, Dahanese specifically says that this is a "teaser based on what we feel comfortable enough showing you now, but it's not all that's coming in our next DLC"

It was a teaser, not the be-all-end-all of DLC2. Now, My only hope is that it stays as just a teaser, and doesn't end up being all there is to DLC2. Granted, it IS quite of bit of stuff already, so I'm hopeful that there will be plenty more to come :)

As for the rest of your post, I agree 110%. It's been that way since the Alpha Forums. And honestly, I'll say this straight out.. we NEED this first part of DLC2 on the Alpha Server to be tested ASAP! Not a week before it drops onto Live.. but NOW. We are legion, we are many, we can test things in our 70 hour gaming weeks that your developers who MAY get 5 hours of game play time a week can NEVER get into. This used to be exactly why game companies wanted Alpha Testers, and why they USED to listen to us when we gave feedback and suggestions. Sometimes our suggestions made it into the game, and the game was stronger and more loved. Other times, the suggestions wouldn't make it into the game, but instead the devs would take the spirit of our suggestion and run with it.. and still other times, the Dev's would tell us "Yes, I'm sure it's a cool idea, but no.. we can't put a batarang into our science fiction game, it just doesn't fit with the lore".. and we'd mope for a few days, but we'd get over it and still enjoy the game.

It's also why I've asked repeatedly.. WHO is reading these forums.. WHO is looking at our feedback on bugs.. and WHO is going to be communicating back with us. Now I don't envy Dahanese, yes, she's got a awesome job working for a game company, but she has the WORST JOB they offer, having to deal with the multitudes of unhappy players in a common forum, where her every word, once she hits the enter button, is forever locked into digital space for anyone and everyone with the right set of tools to go look at again and again and again in the future. Extrapolate that out, and I'm sure you can see how her job really REALLY S**KS some days, especially on day when we're not happy.

But, I do whole heartedly agree.. where do we post our collective creativity and suggestions so they can be heard and considered by the developers or "powers that be"? I'd like to know that myself.

3rdpig
09-05-2013, 11:43 AM
This game has a roadmap that's created by, and most likely enforced by, the TV show and the writers and producers for the TV show. I'm sure Trion has some latitude, but the story and release dates probably have to run on the show's timeline, not as the community demands.

With Trion's staff reduction, just how much more can we expect out of them than maintaining their roadmap and bug fixes? My guess is not much. Heck, they can't even monitor customer complaints on any regular basis. And anything we hear from the CM's is going to be info passed along from above. Which is really the best we can ask of them. They probably don't know a lot about what's going on at higher levels of the company...which is probably also true of the devs, and might even be more true of them.

For example, I used to work for Honda. If you wanted info on their future plans or finances you'd do better by looking it up on the net than asking me. And what little did filter to me was either under NDA or threats of firing if we released it. The average employee finds out about the same time the public does, or at most a few days earlier.

MacDeath
09-05-2013, 11:45 AM
Well at the moment they cant answer anything anyway since 2 of the 3 CTeam are busy doing the Rift Infinity gate previewing on Twitch

http://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds

They cant be in all places at once :P Dahanese was talking about how she likes the pretty colors of the raid atm hehe.

Rift Twitch just ended. CT INC in 5 4 3 2 1

Zugo
09-05-2013, 11:52 AM
I get that's not 100% of the content, but it probably represents more than half if you look at what was delivered with DLC1.

Throw us a bone maybe? Some little nod to the community that lets us believe that sometimes your idea may become something in game.

What happened to Charlie? Was he going to make some kind of return or was the statement in the patch notes just a jab? Idea: make him the size of a Hulker and randomly spawn around overpass as an emergency. Wouldn't require a whole lot of effort, but would be entertaining and engaging.

Easily implemented things using existing mechanics, and graphics can provide entertainment.

Sanguinesun
09-05-2013, 11:53 AM
Rift Twitch just ended. CT INC in 5 4 3 2 1


I was thinking of posting that myself but I figured... naw... :P

OverloadUT
09-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Really big content like what we showed on the DLC2 livestream takes quite some time to develop and has been in development for a while. However, even those kinds of suggestions are being listened to, discussed, and most definitely sometimes slotted in to future plans.

The smaller things like UI tweeaks and whatnot are the things we can turn around faster, and something the team is putting a big focus on right now, and you should expect to see some good suggestions implemented in future patches. But please remember that all development, even small things, does take time!

BJWyler
09-05-2013, 12:07 PM
I get that's not 100% of the content, but it probably represents more than half if you look at what was delivered with DLC1.

Throw us a bone maybe? Some little nod to the community that lets us believe that sometimes your idea may become something in game.

What happened to Charlie? Was he going to make some kind of return or was the statement in the patch notes just a jab? Idea: make him the size of a Hulker and randomly spawn around overpass as an emergency. Wouldn't require a whole lot of effort, but would be entertaining and engaging.

Easily implemented things using existing mechanics, and graphics can provide entertainment.

Unfortunately, in the world of coding an MMO, what may seem like an easy and quickly implemented thing, but anything rarely is in coding this complex.

Aside from that, there is more than one side to any argument, idea, or suggestion. It never ceases to amaze me how often "the devs don't" listen is brought up by the side that doesn't get what they want, while the issue does not exist for the other side. Case in point, the idea to make Charlie into a Hulker sounds like garbage to me and I would never want to see that implemented in game. I think dev time could be better spent on making another storyline mission more than what we got with the Arenas? Who should the devs listen to, now?

JimmyRustler
09-05-2013, 12:07 PM
Really big content like what we showed on the DLC2 livestream takes quite some time to develop and has been in development for a while. However, even those kinds of suggestions are being listened to, discussed, and most definitely sometimes slotted in to future plans.

The smaller things like UI tweeaks and whatnot are the things we can turn around faster, and something the team is putting a big focus on right now, and you should expect to see some good suggestions implemented in future patches. But please remember that all development, even small things, does take time!


"Really Big Content".........
Recycled Nim Arena, recycled mechanics from other things, recycled enemies.....
Yeah Really big content.

Sorry Oat, Gotta call BS on that.

DLC1 was disappointing in it's scope (Well the paid side), and DLC2 will be the same way.

Zugo
09-05-2013, 12:12 PM
Unfortunately, in the world of coding an MMO, what may seem like an easy and quickly implemented thing, but anything rarely is in coding this complex.

Aside from that, there is more than one side to any argument, idea, or suggestion. It never ceases to amaze me how often "the devs don't" listen is brought up by the side that doesn't get what they want, while the issue does not exist for the other side. Case in point, the idea to make Charlie into a Hulker sounds like garbage to me and I would never want to see that implemented in game. I think dev time could be better spent on making another storyline mission more than what we got with the Arenas? Who should the devs listen to, now?

I wasn't trying to say that any one individuals idea should be thrown out there for the dev's to consider. The Charlie/Hulker idea was just an example of how you can use existing mechanics/art already present to create something new.

Zugo
09-05-2013, 12:14 PM
"Really Big Content".........
Recycled Nim Arena, recycled mechanics from other things, recycled enemies.....
Yeah Really big content.

Sorry Oat, Gotta call BS on that.

DLC1 was disappointing in it's scope (Well the paid side), and DLC2 will be the same way.

Case in point, existing content re-purposed in way to create something different.

CRIXDA
09-05-2013, 12:40 PM
Yeah.....
I am not going to try and have the dead horse wheeled out here so I can beat it some more.
Although I agree with the OP and I have even posted a similar thread wondering why player's suggestions seem to fall upon deaf ears,
I also understand that It does take time for code development and for all that it does to make anything that We players ask for even possible in-game. I would enjoy knowing what ideas are even being contemplated on being used in DLC in the future.
At least We would have some other things to be excited about.

Blu
09-05-2013, 12:47 PM
they don't listen bro, if they did, why didn't they fix things like the ark predator huge bug?
or the clusternades not giving dmge score at arkfalls?

there is a lot of reward outfits that are bugged, and I got the same lame reply..

we know about it, but there is a lot of other things we are working on and trying to release, before we fix your earned outfit..

just go use another one that you earned..

got the email, they deff went in the wrong direction with this community and game..

it will now show the next time they try and come out with something new..

change your name trion, stop using rift as your backdrop, rift was good, but anything with your name on it now, isn't..

case in point, is these threads, this lil bit of dlc that everyone bugged you to death about, but out of my 92 friends, none came back for it..

Most have perm moved on, and its kinda lame that I still see ppl on here asking and trion to talk to you guys and get nothing real in return.

just like how we all asked for you to un nerf the cars and quads, there was a lot of things like this, we went into detail with during beta, we took our time and submitted real info and feed back to this company, yet today, right now..

With this new dlc and patches, there is real issues that still remain from beta,, and im not talking about some lame cry baby issues that have no real justification to gain attention..

but oh well, I trolled the forums just now to see what was going on, actually was looking to see if ppl finally got fed up enough with you to try and make a change so things like this don't keep happening to gamers..

You rooked ppl, royally..

Enjoy your profits, glad ppl still enjoy this game and they should, they paid for it, good money some of them..

they deserve free orange items, new outfits, everything, you made enough money off us, don't want to hear anything about server costs or nothing..

if anything you will reply to a thread to close it, or to ban or ?????

ive watched a lot of the mods come into a thread and reply to something that has no meaning in the thread at all,
then like myself I will took the time to help this community out, when most of the times if I came on here and talked, longer then one lame line of words I got flamed by the fanboys, which is fine, i like to fight, its why i liked this game until the craxy core changes, the lack of interaction with us, never fix real gameplay issues of fix our bug outfits and stuff before adding more to the store so we could give you more money?

really?

oh that's how you roll huh?
either way, hope the gamers of this game enjoy it, glad to have met some of yall, really enjoyed talking to ppl and helping them, but in return i got a few emails that just down right show how ignorant a company can be,

especially with dealing with the ones that matter, or that was only really here to help us, not cry about

"omg, blu has the immunizer and is wrecking everyone in pvp, 32 pages in one thread must nerf bs"

pvp was just so fun, lol, yea okay, infectors sucked, found a few that was actually fun in PVE, and you nerfed em into complete trash..

Next time i see the words TRION on anything, that's just what im going to think

your trying to figure this out as you go,
rift don't make you any kind of expert, yet a lot of you think you are..

Especially the DM's i had hours and hours of convo's with..

2 of em was great, one got laid off and the other one, idk..

Riot, Blizzard and other companys you are not, until you reach there status, listen to your ppl, maybe some of them can really help you, but i guess when your that paid and drinking starbucks and monster drink and got your own lil personal monster coolers under your desks, well, i guess you really didn't GAF..

Pyth
09-05-2013, 12:48 PM
I'm going to point this out -

At the VERY START of the PAX DLC2 demo, Dahanese specifically says that this is a "teaser based on what we feel comfortable enough showing you now, but it's not all that's coming in our next DLC"

Remember that 30 second teaser for the first DLC?

THAT WAS IT.

They showed the entire DLC in that 30 seconds. And I remember a while ago when I made a joke that the DLC would only have six hours of content. I overshot that ***** by miles.

Iceberg
09-05-2013, 01:05 PM
Really big content like what we showed on the DLC2 livestream takes quite some time to develop and has been in development for a while. However, even those kinds of suggestions are being listened to, discussed, and most definitely sometimes slotted in to future plans.

The smaller things like UI tweeaks and whatnot are the things we can turn around faster, and something the team is putting a big focus on right now, and you should expect to see some good suggestions implemented in future patches. But please remember that all development, even small things, does take time!

Which begs the question, why do we still have a crappy chat system/UI design?

Zugo
09-05-2013, 01:21 PM
Remember that 30 second teaser for the first DLC?

THAT WAS IT.

They showed the entire DLC in that 30 seconds. And I remember a while ago when I made a joke that the DLC would only have six hours of content. I overshot that ***** by miles.

Did the Raptor in the teaser have a turret? I don't recall, but why not fix the Raptor so that people want the DLC for the vehicle alone.


Which begs the question, why do we still have a crappy chat system/UI design?
I think it's actually worse than before.

fillem
09-05-2013, 01:21 PM
Really big content like what we showed on the DLC2 livestream takes quite some time to develop and has been in development for a while. However, even those kinds of suggestions are being listened to, discussed, and most definitely sometimes slotted in to future plans.

The smaller things like UI tweeaks and whatnot are the things we can turn around faster, and something the team is putting a big focus on right now, and you should expect to see some good suggestions implemented in future patches. But please remember that all development, even small things, does take time!'
We understand where ur coming from but i think where the problem lies is some of the things that the developers see as a priority isnt a priority for the gaming community. And lets face it making changes that the community dont agree with isnt really smart because eventually there will be no community. And example of that is the Grenade changes put up a poll and see how many ppl actually vote YES to the change. Then put up another poll asking how many ppl want to see changes to the salvage matrix and chat ui and see the response form then. Im not saying that grenades are a bad idea but it should be an idea thats left till dl4 or 5.

Iceberg
09-05-2013, 01:23 PM
Did the Raptor in the teaser have a turret? I don't recall, but why not fix the Raptor so that people want the DLC for the vehicle alone.


I think it's actually worse than before.

It is worse than before, I just can not fathom how they can do something like that. It flies in the face of common sense and logic.

Zabuza
09-05-2013, 02:11 PM
There have been countless ideas for new content, and enhancement right here on the forums, but I’ve yet to see anything materialize in game.

It was a ploy to placate the masses. It worked for all of a week.

Slyfox2001
09-05-2013, 02:18 PM
Really big content like what we showed on the DLC2 livestream takes quite some time to develop and has been in development for a while. However, even those kinds of suggestions are being listened to, discussed, and most definitely sometimes slotted in to future plans.

The smaller things like UI tweeaks and whatnot are the things we can turn around faster, and something the team is putting a big focus on right now, and you should expect to see some good suggestions implemented in future patches. But please remember that all development, even small things, does take time!

Remember that you said that the smaller things will be implemented in future patches. I dont really want DLC2 to be another big patch with tweaks and crap. That should not be DLC material.

Zootharuu
09-05-2013, 03:09 PM
Is there any footage of the DLC2 that we can watch from the livestream? Either on YouTube or ? Not sure where else I could watch it. I tried to find the livestream but I couldn't find it.

Sanguinesun
09-05-2013, 03:12 PM
Is there any footage of the DLC2 that we can watch from the livestream? Either on YouTube or ? Not sure where else I could watch it. I tried to find the livestream but I couldn't find it.

http://www.twitch.tv/twitch/b/453840098
Defiance starts at 2:15:00.

Krazy Karen
09-05-2013, 03:16 PM
"Really Big Content".........
Recycled Nim Arena, recycled mechanics from other things, recycled enemies.....
Yeah Really big content.

Sorry Oat, Gotta call BS on that.

DLC1 was disappointing in it's scope (Well the paid side), and DLC2 will be the same way.

recycled NIM area?

What do you mean?

Zootharuu
09-05-2013, 03:23 PM
Thank you! ;)

BJWyler
09-05-2013, 04:46 PM
I wasn't trying to say that any one individuals idea should be thrown out there for the dev's to consider. The Charlie/Hulker idea was just an example of how you can use existing mechanics/art already present to create something new.

I understand that and my response was to indicate that not everyone will like every idea thrown out there, and therefore will request that the idea not be implemented. As such, the paradox still stands.


I would enjoy knowing what ideas are even being contemplated on being used in DLC in the future.
At least We would have some other things to be excited about.

The problem with that then, it sets up unrealistic expectations with the players. "We would have some other things to be excited about" and then be just as quickly disappointed (to say the least) like the Raptor vehicle when something happens that prevents such ideas from actually being used.

Sanguinesun
09-05-2013, 05:33 PM
recycled NIM area?

What do you mean?

The shown battle in the demo of the arkfall interior is the same room interior as the room you fight the final boss in the story mission with Nim in. Thus, the same design assets(that means in this case the room) are being reused(meaning recycled) for the use of the interior of the arkfall.

The implication being that instead of designing new things they are just taking things already existing in the game and reusing them differently due to lack of time and resources to make new ones.

Henyachingywhy
09-05-2013, 05:51 PM
The shown battle in the demo of the arkfall interior is the same room interior as the room you fight the final boss in the story mission with Nim in. Thus, the same design assets(that means in this case the room) are being reused(meaning recycled) for the use of the interior of the arkfall.

The implication being that instead of designing new things they are just taking things already existing in the game and reusing them differently due to lack of time and resources to make new ones.

But, during the live stream they said that the inside of the arkfalls will be random. So, that arena in the live stream could be the only one that was a remake... but who knows.

CRIXDA
09-05-2013, 05:56 PM
*facepalm*
UGH!
This is beyond useless.
It is true. Trion doesn't care, they rook us out of money, We get sad value for what We gave them and We keep on coming back for more like a dog that just won't learn that our cruel master is probably going to kick us when We get within distance.
I just won't get it, It seems.
Oh, and KRAZY KAREN : NIM is not what they say it is at all, It is a research company that produces hyper-intelligent Rats.
Like, totally.

Iceberg
09-06-2013, 03:11 PM
Which begs the question, why do we still have a crappy chat system/UI design?

Well said, good sir or madam!

In all seriousness though, I would like an actual answer for this since according to OverloadUT the UI tweaks have a faster turn around.

Indra Echo
09-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Really big content like what we showed on the DLC2 livestream takes quite some time to develop and has been in development for a while. However, even those kinds of suggestions are being listened to, discussed, and most definitely sometimes slotted in to future plans.

The smaller things like UI tweeaks and whatnot are the things we can turn around faster, and something the team is putting a big focus on right now, and you should expect to see some good suggestions implemented in future patches. But please remember that all development, even small things, does take time!

Ok, with all due respect if UI tweaks are things you can turn around faster, instead of being concerned with grenades cluttering up our inventory, how about tweaking the inventory UI to make it usable and less cluttered?

I can give you many examples of inventory interfaces that work better than this one and that would do more to encourage people to spend real money than adding a new layer of confusion to grenades that didn't have any of the problems listed.

And make the purchased inventory slots accessible across all characters on a platform.

I'd also like to see you all address specifically the issue of lag that is right now and how you think any of this new stuff can be implemented without adding more lag.

Beyond that there is the question of lost in-game items due to this lag. If there are things that are consumable that we lose due to lag, seriously how likely do you think it is that people will just be all smiles and say "oh well" and how likely do you think they are to just abandon this game--especially if these consumables are a major part of the new mechanics for some actually rehashed content. I'm sorry but arkfalls and more arkfalls, and even more arkfalls--no matter how you dress them up, they're still arkfalls.

Sure it would be nice to go inside a ship for an arkfall--but not if the experience is as craptastic as it is for some of the other instances right now, say coop or arenas. As it is, these new arkfalls as DLC are kind of like telling us we have to buy towels that we throw down to make arenas appear. And the arenas will now be coop. And then telling us that's a major portion of DLC2.

With the added benefit of possibly (or for some of us probably) buying that towel, throwing it down, and then lagging out.

Ataraxia
09-06-2013, 07:40 PM
Why are the community's ideas always ignored?

Because we are gamers, not game developers.

Bob Blunderbust
09-06-2013, 09:17 PM
I would like to see hot pink land shark guns in the next dlc

http://icrontic.com/images/draco/articles/1177759993/shark_gun.jpg

Indra Echo
09-07-2013, 01:03 AM
'
We understand where ur coming from but i think where the problem lies is some of the things that the developers see as a priority isnt a priority for the gaming community. And lets face it making changes that the community dont agree with isnt really smart because eventually there will be no community. And example of that is the Grenade changes put up a poll and see how many ppl actually vote YES to the change. Then put up another poll asking how many ppl want to see changes to the salvage matrix and chat ui and see the response form then. Im not saying that grenades are a bad idea but it should be an idea thats left till dl4 or 5.

I'd also like a poll that asks how many of the reasons given for changing grenades are important to people and if they think making grenades consumable/limited use items in any DLC is a good use of DLC.

MacDeath
09-07-2013, 01:47 AM
I'd also like a poll that asks how many of the reasons given for changing grenades are important to people and if they think making grenades consumable/limited use items in any DLC is a good use of DLC.
Not gonna happen. Polls are against the CoC as seen here: http://forums.defiance.com/announcement.php?f=3&a=4

"Examples of non-constructive discussion include:

- Spam posts that lack meaningful content and do not add to the conversation: This includes: in before lock, +1, first, /10char, etc.
- Cross-forum posting: Posting the same discussion, link, or guild recruitment repeatedly and across numerous forums in an attempt to gain a wider audience or more attention. This splits a discussion across the boards rather than allowing for one centralized discussion that is easily read by all.
- Naming & Shaming
- Disruption of Official Posts: These threads are created by the Devs, Community Team, or other Trion employees in an attempt to gather feedback or provide information to players. Most times these threads will be heavily moderated, and any off-topic posts will be removed.
- Demands/Polls/Petitions"

InfamousBrad
09-07-2013, 02:12 AM
You know, I wasn't going to post in this thread, until I bumped my nose into a really indefensible example today.

From the first day this game shipped, people have said, "We need more civilian clothes, like they wear on the show."

And the devs said, "We hear you" -- and released the Iron Patriot armor to the store.

So we said, "No, really, not power armor, real clothes, like they wear in the show."

And the devs said, "We hear you" -- and released yet more CODA armor variants to the store.

So we got annoyed, and yelled really loudly and en masse, "no more power armor, we mean it! clothes!" and the devs said, "We hear you and we agree, watch the store."

I checked the store today, and they've added some new outfits: Dark Matter power armor.

Dahanese, can you find out who, between marketing and the art department, keeps deciding to crank out all these TF2 power armor suits, none of which look like they were even shown to SyFy, let alone approved, before being added to the game?

And for the love of all holy gods, please do not say, "We hear you, watch the store." Because that bucket has been to the well too many times. This time, please just tell us what the heck is actually going on.

Escyos
09-07-2013, 05:29 AM
Why they don't listen to many of the ideas?

I imagine for the same reason that TV producers don't listen to the crazy stories created by fans. Fans tend to want to wrap things up quickly, never leave anything open and prevent further storytelling. For a game I imagine they take the same sort of ideas.

Sanguinesun
09-07-2013, 05:57 AM
Why they don't listen to many of the ideas?

I imagine for the same reason that TV producers don't listen to the crazy stories created by fans. Fans tend to want to wrap things up quickly, never leave anything open and prevent further storytelling. For a game I imagine they take the same sort of ideas.

Ask another forumite here what happens when someone blames the fans. :rolleyes:

TravelerX1
09-07-2013, 06:39 AM
Not gonna happen. Polls are against the CoC as seen here: http://forums.defiance.com/announcement.php?f=3&a=4

"Examples of non-constructive discussion include:

- Spam posts that lack meaningful content and do not add to the conversation: This includes: in before lock, +1, first, /10char, etc.
- Cross-forum posting: Posting the same discussion, link, or guild recruitment repeatedly and across numerous forums in an attempt to gain a wider audience or more attention. This splits a discussion across the boards rather than allowing for one centralized discussion that is easily read by all.
- Naming & Shaming
- Disruption of Official Posts: These threads are created by the Devs, Community Team, or other Trion employees in an attempt to gather feedback or provide information to players. Most times these threads will be heavily moderated, and any off-topic posts will be removed.
- Demands/Polls/Petitions"

Why don't you just apply for mod'ship?
Get that nice ban hammer in your hands and do it all proper!

Indra Echo
09-07-2013, 12:46 PM
Why they don't listen to many of the ideas?

I imagine for the same reason that TV producers don't listen to the crazy stories created by fans. Fans tend to want to wrap things up quickly, never leave anything open and prevent further storytelling. For a game I imagine they take the same sort of ideas.

The truth is that sometimes it's impossible to listen to the whims of fans. Constructive and detailed criticism is one thing, but random whims and wishes are another. If Fan A wants something nerfed and a bunch of people agree, and others just get all angry about it and say, "hell no" but offer no real reason for not wanting it nerfed, they may actually nerf the thing. Then what can happen is along comes Fan B with real reasons why nerfing failed--and maybe makes him want to quit the game. In this case, Fan B has no choice but to see that Fan A bears some blame for this, some responsibility, but he also can put some of that blame on people that just used anger instead of actually using reasons.

I saw this with discussions over the Immunizers. People would give a lot of reasons for wanting them nerfed and were pointing to PvP problems. The dissenting opinions ranged from "you just suck" to "I paid a lot for my orange Immunizer--hell, no don't nerf it". I don't recall there being any good reasons for not nerfing it beyond the idea that PvP and PvE should be separate events.

Unless all fans can agree on appropriate ways to have conversations about this stuff and state their arguments for or against some point and not point the finger at a specific person, rather than that person's statements, devs will often just make their best guesses. I do put the blame on people (myself included) as it relates to their comments-we are responsible for what we say. So, I would say that some of the changes we have not liked are due to fans and what they've asked for, sometimes.

The broader point is that devs act like parents sometimes-trying to corral the children. They can't give the kids everything they want and can't constantly explain why not. But parents aren't going to respond well to a child who's just sitting in the corner screaming, "I hate you!" with anything like bottomless respect. And we are supposed to not be children-should try and at least explain our problems, and have every right to coherently and constructively state why what they're doing is not in our or their best interest. They don't have to agree with it or even act upon it, but they should seriously consider it.


But even adults do sometimes get overly frustrated at being ignored-and persistent issues make them lose it. Anyone who wants you to buy what they're selling has to accept that and deal with it responsibly as well. Sometimes the loudest screamer actually is telling you something worth listening too and it's always a good idea to pay attention when someone has that much emotion invested in your product.

Iceberg
09-07-2013, 02:36 PM
Ask another forumite here what happens when someone blames the fans. :rolleyes:

The only ones left here are movie bots. :P

Indra Echo
09-07-2013, 02:50 PM
Ask another forumite here what happens when someone blames the fans. :rolleyes:

And I know you mean me and totally tried to take that out of context and then felt it was completely warranted for you and others to insult me in posts and then others to send me extremely vulgar messages about certain anatomical things. Anonymity on the internet makes some feel it's ok to treat other real people like garbage over disagreements about a game.

I stand behind what I said and that was that some changes to weapons and things in the game were due to fan requests, so those that wanted them were partly to blame. I included myself as one of those who was to be blamed because there were things I said needed to be fixed. So in blaming fans, I blamed myself too. But you in all maturity, failed to see that because you had an agenda. It was to discredit anything I said.

I don't care if you agree with me or not, but assigning blame sometimes is warranted if providing an explanation.

And since you say you were someone who has moderated forums, I find your attitude appalling. Apparently it is ok with you to treat people badly just because you can.

N3gativeCr33p
09-07-2013, 03:07 PM
Ok, with all due respect if UI tweaks are things you can turn around faster, instead of being concerned with grenades cluttering up our inventory, how about tweaking the inventory UI to make it usable and less cluttered?

I would love to hear an official response to this.

Indra Echo
09-07-2013, 03:54 PM
I would love to hear an official response to this.

That's been a complaint voiced all over these forums for the longest time-and it could even merely be addressed by using the same system they have for contracts and pursuits at a minimum.

I know I've created and posted in several threads, also sent feedback in game about this and nothing, not a word about it ever.

Escyos
09-07-2013, 05:15 PM
The truth is that sometimes it's impossible to listen to the whims of fans. Constructive and detailed criticism is one thing, but random whims and wishes are another. If Fan A wants something nerfed and a bunch of people agree, and others just get all angry about it and say, "hell no" but offer no real reason for not wanting it nerfed, they may actually nerf the thing. Then what can happen is along comes Fan B with real reasons why nerfing failed--and maybe makes him want to quit the game. In this case, Fan B has no choice but to see that Fan A bears some blame for this, some responsibility, but he also can put some of that blame on people that just used anger instead of actually using reasons.

I saw this with discussions over the Immunizers. People would give a lot of reasons for wanting them nerfed and were pointing to PvP problems. The dissenting opinions ranged from "you just suck" to "I paid a lot for my orange Immunizer--hell, no don't nerf it". I don't recall there being any good reasons for not nerfing it beyond the idea that PvP and PvE should be separate events.

Unless all fans can agree on appropriate ways to have conversations about this stuff and state their arguments for or against some point and not point the finger at a specific person, rather than that person's statements, devs will often just make their best guesses. I do put the blame on people (myself included) as it relates to their comments-we are responsible for what we say. So, I would say that some of the changes we have not liked are due to fans and what they've asked for, sometimes.

The broader point is that devs act like parents sometimes-trying to corral the children. They can't give the kids everything they want and can't constantly explain why not. But parents aren't going to respond well to a child who's just sitting in the corner screaming, "I hate you!" with anything like bottomless respect. And we are supposed to not be children-should try and at least explain our problems, and have every right to coherently and constructively state why what they're doing is not in our or their best interest. They don't have to agree with it or even act upon it, but they should seriously consider it.


But even adults do sometimes get overly frustrated at being ignored-and persistent issues make them lose it. Anyone who wants you to buy what they're selling has to accept that and deal with it responsibly as well. Sometimes the loudest screamer actually is telling you something worth listening too and it's always a good idea to pay attention when someone has that much emotion invested in your product.

Unfortunately that won't happen. If history, both worldwide and on this forum, is any indication the fans (although one might class many of them as haters) will never agree on anything. Pretty much everyone (in the world) is a selfish person who feels that their opinion makes them right or their money gives them the right to have as much say in something and that is how we always will be (At least here on Earth, things change for the humans that move to Mars in 2022, I have a time machine I know these things)

TigrisMorte
09-07-2013, 05:55 PM
The only ones left here are movie bots. :P
What? I'm a movie bot?... damn, sorry guys, didn't mean to fall down on the job.


ok, so watch
Lifeforce http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089489/
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086856/
The Thing (1982 remake not that crao from 2011) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/
The Lion in Winter http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063227/
Much Ado About Nothing (Sorry Josh, I liked yours but Kenneth's is better.) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107616/

I'll get more in as I can, are there rules for performance? Don't want to let down the team!

CRIXDA
09-07-2013, 06:11 PM
So many times, it is like we get burned.
I want this game to succeed.
Please help us out, Trion.

Indra Echo
09-07-2013, 06:32 PM
Unfortunately that won't happen. If history, both worldwide and on this forum, is any indication the fans (although one might class many of them as haters) will never agree on anything. Pretty much everyone (in the world) is a selfish person who feels that their opinion makes them right or their money gives them the right to have as much say in something and that is how we always will be (At least here on Earth, things change for the humans that move to Mars in 2022, I have a time machine I know these things)

I'd prefer not to classify anyone that way-I don't generally like such things and have had it done to me. I'm not pointing a finger at you, but at everyone. I've been called a fanboi here and a hater elsewhere, and neither is accurate at all.

A lot of people can dislike what's happening to something they like and be called names and others can like something and not ignore the flaws and be called fanboi (or other names in posts and in PMs). I don't play that way.

I won't hate real people over inanimate objects. I don't hate people for other harsher things so video games-no way. I will defend forever the right of anyone to complain over a product they bought, but I also believe everyone should have some foundation based in reality.

It's why I won't say Trion is the worst game company ever and Defiance the worst game-it's not true for me. I won't say they've never fixed anything because they have. And I won't claim they must give me anything-I take responsibility for mistakes I make. If buying a Season Pass ends up being one, it was my mistake. I bought vaporware. If they fail to deliver on it, I will do what I can at that time.

Right now, I'm unhappy with things that I am seeing and what's going on in my game. I've always seen that others have had issues and said it needed to be fixed. It now needs to be fixed for me as well-and they need to consider adding more fluff that creates more lag and that really is nothing new for the game. Their twitch video didn't encourage me since as it is DLC1 is unplayable far too often right now. DLC2 threatens to add even more that will stop the game dead in its tracks for many people at least on the xbox and from what I'm hearing on the PS3 as well.

I used to be able to honestly say the game was fun for me and mostly playable-it is tipping in the other direction and the fun is wearing out. I am not encouraged by the actual lack of sense that Trick made in his post about why they're adding on a layer of crap in order to give us grenades that we already have. It isn't so much about grenades but it is about the question of WHY? His reasons make no sense, respectfully. So, I'm not cynical. I'm rather disgusted and annoyed-that of all the things they could have done and then shown they chose grenades and arkfalls.

At this point, complaining seems to make the most sense.

Smokey Greenleaf
09-08-2013, 04:27 AM
eventually they'll realize that angry customers take their business elsewhere.

CRIXDA
09-08-2013, 05:00 AM
Smokey,
You would think that sound logic like that would apply, right?
"Angry customers take their business elsewhere"? Sure, angry customers do.
An angry GAMER who loves a game and wants it to be good, to live up to It's potential, or to live up to the initial investment that the gamer made in the game as a prospect (150$ for the ultimate edition or whatever and 60$ for the reserve copy at release) and that gamer can see and believe in the product's ability/potential to improve.
I would hazard to say that our presence here is evidence of that because We care about Defiance enough to voice our opinion here on the forum.
it has been said on a thread or two the the main idea with Defiance is to keep it "semi-working", kind of half-@$$ and limping along up to a certain point at which time Trion Worlds will come down and put a slug in It's head and send It on to the glue factory.
I suppose that thed customer/customers can be as angry as they wish but ........
It wouldn't make one whit of a difference.
Aren't You sad now? I was a too but It has passed.

Fiancee
09-08-2013, 05:11 AM
Patience, young grasshopper. Game isnt even 6 month old.

DragonsWife
09-08-2013, 05:18 AM
Patience, young grasshopper. Game isnt even 6 month old.

I'm reasonably certain that in a product that's been through alpha and beta testing, and is for sale on the open market, and even has a shop to spend real money on in game junk, that excuse doesn't fly. Actually, I'm absolutely certain it doesn't fly. I didn't play $100+ for the displeasure of being a beta tester for Trion while they try to figure out how Blizzard did their MMO so very well for so very long. At this point I'd rather they put all the DLC2 stuff on hold and actually fix the problems that exist in the game now, and make sure those problems don't happen again every time they release a DLC.

Sanguinesun
09-08-2013, 08:07 AM
Patience, young grasshopper. Game isnt even 6 month old.

A well conditioned and institutionalized form complacency.

Indra Echo
09-08-2013, 10:48 AM
Smokey,
You would think that sound logic like that would apply, right?
"Angry customers take their business elsewhere"? Sure, angry customers do.
An angry GAMER who loves a game and wants it to be good, to live up to It's potential, or to live up to the initial investment that the gamer made in the game as a prospect (150$ for the ultimate edition or whatever and 60$ for the reserve copy at release) and that gamer can see and believe in the product's ability/potential to improve.
I would hazard to say that our presence here is evidence of that because We care about Defiance enough to voice our opinion here on the forum.
it has been said on a thread or two the the main idea with Defiance is to keep it "semi-working", kind of half-@$$ and limping along up to a certain point at which time Trion Worlds will come down and put a slug in It's head and send It on to the glue factory.
I suppose that thed customer/customers can be as angry as they wish but ........
It wouldn't make one whit of a difference.
Aren't You sad now? I was a too but It has passed.

The one thing that is not understood by a lot of business people but should at least be extremely obvious to game devs--is that over the top anger often stems from actually liking and being incredibly disappointed by a product.

The old saying is "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"--applying that here it means people who really liked the game are upset by the wasted potential. Anger stems from a kind of "love".

Valaska
09-08-2013, 11:31 AM
They do not give half a ****, you could literally offer to mail them a gold ingot of idea's, marketing strategies, development skill... All the things they lack, and they would go "Ehhh we better stick to what we're doing now."

CRIXDA
09-08-2013, 02:56 PM
Indra, You are absolutely correct and You and I and Valaska have had this conversation before (and probably will again)
The sad thing is, WE AREN'T LEARNING YET.
Sure, like Fiancee said "the Game isn't yet six months old" but honestly, that isn't the point at all.
With a six month old game, all of the bugs and errors that We have dealt with and endured since LAUNCH DAY SIX MONTHS AGO and have had zero resolution on have built up so much apathy, frustration and rage.