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View Full Version : The Unrewarding Job As Healer



Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 08:49 AM
So I like to switch into healer mode, and most of the time I have a few noobs teamed up with me in co-op, constantly saving them even when they're on the brink of death I get their in time.
I revive everyone instantly when they're down. I even use phoenix boost perk on my healing load out. I also sometimes with my BMG's manage to kill more than anyone else (if it's a Hellbug co-op map) and even still with the healing and the killing. I get no thanks+ always at the bottom of the board (only when healing) If I use say sword and pistol I'm never not first. I say healers deserve more credit.
Because most of the time I'm keeping brain dead players alive who walk into explosions and fire etc...
Which is harder work than killing. But I do like the feeling of keeping players alive.

Error404
09-20-2013, 08:55 AM
You're healing in a game where people need to learn to not need healing. It's pretty unneccessary. That's why you aren't getting the 'credit' you feel you deserve.

This isn't a super hard MMO where we have instances where it's "LF HEALER DAIG CO OP"

It's "One spot for 'x'" Where the ulterior motive is: "Come take up that spot so I can stop waiting and go kill **** already."

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 09:05 AM
It is necessary, the amount of times low and high ego'd players I have seen get owned by the game is unrealistic. I mean I rarely go down because in my attack loadouts I have the perfect stuff to stay alive a long time and dodge/evade when needed. But if it exists (and healing weps do) then there should be some gratitude/xtra points to go with the healing. If I wasn't a healer all those times and went on the attack I would have been left as the last standing so many times. Which would end up been even more boring then just simply healing. And it doesn't hurt to help keep alive those newer players until they get into higher ego ratings.

Kibblehouse
09-20-2013, 09:07 AM
Not to mention how chat works in this game. In Wow if someone out in the world had healed me I would always fire off a Thanks. So far the way Defiance chatt works, by the time I get that typed in the person has already left.

Error404
09-20-2013, 09:10 AM
Basic situational awareness will far outrank any healer on my team any day. I would sooner someone had my back with an AR/LMG/SMG than someone waiting for me to kill things myself. BMG healers just slow the game down, as I said, unneccessary.

It's somewhat nice at the Dark Matter arkfalls, but even then, not a necessity, a polite luxury, if you will.

Celke
09-20-2013, 09:13 AM
I always used to do CO-UP with clanmates and friends and we never required healing.

But with pugs... They even run into thei're own grenade blast radius >.>

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 09:18 AM
Basic situational awareness will far outrank any healer on my team any day. I would sooner someone had my back with an AR/LMG/SMG than someone waiting for me to kill things myself. BMG healers just slow the game down, as I said, unneccessary.

It's somewhat nice at the Dark Matter arkfalls, but even then, not a necessity, a polite luxury, if you will.

That is your own opinion. It is not unnecessary to have healing on BMG's.
Why yes the healing bonus/protecting bonus are to make up for how slow and weak they are. But saying that I would prefer someone to have my back with a AR/BMG/LMG...

However you can't just back up certain players who are prone to dying with gun tactics and such. I can watch my own back and never need healing I assume that is the same for majority of people on here. Other players need a little defence // health to keep them up to get through a co-op and as I seem to be getting paired up with such people I would say it was necessary unless I just play for myself and not be a team player. Or I could just play with my clan. And if someone is healing (Keeping People Alive) then yes of course they deserve more of a reward than bottom of the scoreboard and a no thanks at all.

crasher
09-20-2013, 09:38 AM
That is your own opinion. It is not unnecessary to have healing on BMG's.
Why yes the healing bonus/protecting bonus are to make up for how slow and weak they are. But saying that I would prefer someone to have my back with a AR/BMG/LMG...

However you can't just back up certain players who are prone to dying with gun tactics and such. I can watch my own back and never need healing I assume that is the same for majority of people on here. Other players need a little defence // health to keep them up to get through a co-op and as I seem to be getting paired up with such people I would say it was necessary unless I just play for myself and not be a team player. Or I could just play with my clan. And if someone is healing (Keeping People Alive) then yes of course they deserve more of a reward than bottom of the scoreboard and a no thanks at all.
Sometimes the reward is the warm/fuzzy feeling you get.
You want a better reward, get a better job.
Harsh, I know, but true, since the game doesn't allow negotiation of fees.

I rez at A-falls and sieges along with many others.
We get nothing for that but a warm feeling, and sometimes we die. Sometimes we die often enough that we have to extract which COSTS us.(I got my pursuit done in the first month naturally at conflicts, no need for trading suicides in this game unless you want the pursuit in an hour).

There are times in coops when someone in my cadre healed me with a BMG because it was his turn to wield the BMG, sometimes it was my turn.

Newbs and n00bs dont 'deserve' healing, they get healing because somebody was willing to do it.

Healers don't 'deserve' remuneration, do it or don't do it.

Me and many others stopped going to sieges as much or at all because we got tired of scoring low because of the healers who got benefits from not shooting stuff (which required aiming for rewards or missing for none) and used a BMG to blind everyone equally. They got a reward and I couldn't see well enough to aim and score as highly as when they stayed home.

I have no desire to see BMGs reward so well that everyone chooses to run around healing healthy people on the off chance they get a reward, and nobody uses a weapon to defeat the badguys.

Error404
09-20-2013, 09:40 AM
That is your own opinion. It is not unnecessary to have healing on BMG's.
Why yes the healing bonus/protecting bonus are to make up for how slow and weak they are. But saying that I would prefer someone to have my back with a AR/BMG/LMG...

However you can't just back up certain players who are prone to dying with gun tactics and such. I can watch my own back and never need healing I assume that is the same for majority of people on here. Other players need a little defence // health to keep them up to get through a co-op and as I seem to be getting paired up with such people I would say it was necessary unless I just play for myself and not be a team player. Or I could just play with my clan. And if someone is healing (Keeping People Alive) then yes of course they deserve more of a reward than bottom of the scoreboard and a no thanks at all.

Kill the enemies before they kill the noobs with me. Simple.

crasher
09-20-2013, 09:52 AM
Kill the enemies before they kill the noobs with me. Simple.
This can be true in many cases, but you have to take the training wheels off the newbs eventually.

A BMG is really useful in Motherlode as a tactic, in places, but I want my BMG guy to spend most of his time shooting. The first few times a newb needs the BMG, but eventually he's got to learn to live thru most of it or stop trying to run with the bigger dogs if he can't.

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 10:14 AM
3000+ EGO rated players I have been paired off with have died an unreasonable amount of times too and need a lot of healing. So not just noobs, bad players also. and if they haven't learnt by that level I don't mind healing. But you seem to be missing my point. Regardless of how bad you think healing is. It can be difficult and hard task depending on the incompetence of the other players and if someone has decided to do it, it shouldn't just be "well you decided to do it don't ask for reward" there should be points for it so other players know just what kind of job/service you did. So they can be appreciated. Same as the ones dealing most damage do. (Which is my opinion on what should take place.)

crasher
09-20-2013, 10:33 AM
3000+ I have been paired off with have died an unreasonable amount of times too and need a lot of healing. So not just noobs, bad players also. and if they haven't learnt by that level I don't mind healing. But you seem to be missing my point. Regardless of how bad you think healing is. It can be difficult and hard task depending on the incompetence of the other players and if someone has decided to do it, it shouldn't just be "well you decided to do it don't ask for reward" there should be points for it so other players know just what kind of job/service you did. So they can be appreciated. Same as the ones dealing most damage do. (Which is my opinion on what should take place.)
It still boils down to choice in this case.
You do it for the reward of helping a player survive who then can help keep you alive, or you do something that rewards better.

You don't 'deserve' a reward for keeping bad players alive, beyond the thanks and good feeling. But you DO get a reward as it is. If it's not enough, find something that rewards more. As I said, we swap BMG in coops and group. We share the job so everyone gets a chance at the prize, and everyone takes a turn at the BMG being their #2 weapon in their loadout for that run.

Train or die. I help newbs in my group. The groups I'm in take newbs along to show them how stuff works. They figure it out, or they dont, and it's not my job to babysit them their entire game career. They learn and survive, or they are free to go play on the bunny slope with the other players who can't or wont learn to survive and be a functioning member of the team.

As such, BMG'g isn't a career in the game unless you choose it, and it's chosen by you for whatever reason is important to you. If the people you're healing dont appreciate you, get better friends, or dont waste your time.

As much as I'd like to have a yacht and private jet as pay for riding horses, in truth riding horses doesn't pay that well for most people so they do other stuff instead.

Same here, but the horses are BMGs.

Amack
09-20-2013, 10:37 AM
Vox, in my limited time here, I started playing healer at the beginning. Then I read the forums, along with the complaints, and realized until Trion changes certain things, the complaints are valid. When I go into a co-op now or any other situation where someone may die, I simply load Decoy and fire that thing off at the beginning of any major conflict, this seems to keep the newbies alive just as well as healing them.

Just my opinion to date.

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 10:44 AM
Vox, in my limited time here, I started playing healer at the beginning. Then I read the forums, along with the complaints, and realized until Trion changes certain things, the complaints are valid. When I go into a co-op now or any other situation where someone may die, I simply load Decoy and fire that thing off at the beginning of any major conflict, this seems to keep the newbies alive just as well as healing them.

Just my opinion to date.

Seems legit. Maybe I am just getting paired up with some particularly terrible players recently. I have been using my AR+Shottie loadout //Charge Blade+Pistol loadout more again recently but even then I end up doing most of the work and I am too impatient to lay back and let other players do the work themselves.

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 10:48 AM
I'm not asking for a reward + I very rarely get thanks and truly all I want is a points system so that other players can actual see how much healing I did. That is not a lot I am asking for some reason no-one can see that I didn't say healing should over take damage I just want people to see on a board. no extra prizes/scrip/salvage just if healing exists in the game, (my opinion) healers should get some credit for the instance been completed too.

Etaew
09-20-2013, 10:51 AM
Support weapons are undervalued at the moment, I guess a design decision as they aren't a requirement. As a character you should focus on damage avoidance, and if that fails - someone to revive you.

I am a big fan of support abilities, and I've played a support class in many of my other MMOs they encourage teamwork and should be rewarded even if as you say it isn't a notable reward, just bragging rights on a leaderboard.

3rdpig
09-20-2013, 10:55 AM
Nothing personal, but the responses above are correct, lots of games need healers, but Defiance isn't one of them.

Anyone who's willing to take the time to learn to play this game halfway competently doesn't need a healer, and by following them around healing them all you're doing is enabling them to continue to play poorly instead of being forced to learn to play.

Plus you're actually making it harder for people who do know how to play by upping enemy difficulty just by being there and not shooting enough. And the worst of all for me you're blinding me with the absurd blue healing effects.

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 10:58 AM
Support weapons are undervalued at the moment, I guess a design decision as they aren't a requirement. As a character you should focus on damage avoidance, and if that fails - someone to revive you.

I am a big fan of support abilities, and I've played a support class in many of my other MMOs they encourage teamwork and should be rewarded even if as you say it isn't a notable reward, just bragging rights on a leaderboard.

That is my exact point of view also. But maybe I guess if I wait that may change and the supporting players may get more credit. If not I guess I will have to stick with my offensive loadouts I suppose.

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 11:05 AM
Nothing personal, but the responses above are correct, lots of games need healers, but Defiance isn't one of them.

Anyone who's willing to take the time to learn to play this game halfway competently doesn't need a healer, and by following them around healing them all you're doing is enabling them to continue to play poorly instead of being forced to learn to play.

Plus you're actually making it harder for people who do know how to play by upping enemy difficulty just by being there and not shooting enough. And the worst of all for me you're blinding me with the absurd blue healing effects.

When I am attacking in my offensive loadout and a particular boss/group of enemies takes some part of my life/shield off and someone heals me I am nothing but grateful, and I can see past the healing affects quite easily myself. Guess you don't have the same view point on this as me. But I respect your opinion nonetheless.

Etaew
09-20-2013, 11:08 AM
The healing effects aren't as bad as those rocket launchers :( (although they could be made smaller)

3rdpig
09-20-2013, 11:32 AM
When I am attacking in my offensive loadout and a particular boss/group of enemies takes some part of my life/shield off and someone heals me I am nothing but grateful, and I can see past the healing affects quite easily myself. Guess you don't have the same view point on this as me. But I respect your opinion nonetheless.

I guess I don't. I run away from healers because to me it makes the game slower and more difficult.

I use regen shields and the regen and self medicated perks. I use cover effectively and keep a shotgun in my secondary slot just for those close range moments when my health starts to diminish and there's no cover around. I've got a self revive should I go down. Should I go down again before the self revive recharges I'm a piss poor player who just got a very needed wake up call to practice not being a suicidal maniac.

When something attacks me from behind I want my team mate to kill that enemy, not heal me then wait for me to finish the enemy I'm killing (which is now harder since you're frigging blinding me) then turn and kill that enemy too.

Why is this so hard to understand? I respect other people's opinions, but you're making the enemies tougher and making the fight more difficult and take longer by healing group members instead of killing enemies. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Vox Animus
09-20-2013, 01:03 PM
I guess I don't. I run away from healers because to me it makes the game slower and more difficult.

I use regen shields and the regen and self medicated perks. I use cover effectively and keep a shotgun in my secondary slot just for those close range moments when my health starts to diminish and there's no cover around. I've got a self revive should I go down. Should I go down again before the self revive recharges I'm a piss poor player who just got a very needed wake up call to practice not being a suicidal maniac.

When something attacks me from behind I want my team mate to kill that enemy, not heal me then wait for me to finish the enemy I'm killing (which is now harder since you're frigging blinding me) then turn and kill that enemy too.

Why is this so hard to understand? I respect other people's opinions, but you're making the enemies tougher and making the fight more difficult and take longer by healing group members instead of killing enemies. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

I disagree I use decoy and stun grenades when entering each room and have both my BMG's recharging both my grenade and decoy power faster stunning and distracting the enemies constantly making it easy for the other players I memorized all spawn points so I'm ready to use my BMG's offensively on those big groups to help diminish their health and I use myself to distract enemies melee is fire and radiation on my BMG's also I am a constant help as when I decide to use healing/protecting as my friends on their tell me. Maybe the ones that heal you aren't all to good at it.

Because I certainly disagree and I don't just stand their healing/protecting since I am good at getting peoples health back up I use time to attack also when appropriate. I am pretty much a healing/tank if you will, even when I go down and self revive it heals my teams shields for 100% I know I am been helpful. Sorry if you don't feel the same.

And it's not a fact it's false, I sometimes go ahead when teammates are messing about changing loadouts and I kill a group of mutants here or some others with BMG link dmg and stun grenade. I made it faster I don't appreciate you assuming what I do when I play. And like I said in my previous post I sometimes can end up killing more than the offensive players but with less damage than the others. And if I was playing with more competent players I wouldn't feel the need. It's your opinion. I don't have to heal all the time I usually go in first attacking.

Jumping in with my decoy to distract > Stun grenade (stuns a cluster of enemies every time, I use them well) > Offensive BMG use til they break out of the stun. > Protecting. > Healing.

Straga Havoc
09-20-2013, 06:20 PM
I feel what you're saying Vox, not enough love for the healers. And you're totally right I for one have seen you out kill score other players on your heal loadout when I jump into one of your late instances, keep up the good work brah!

Jallace Ryngz
09-20-2013, 08:04 PM
I use bmg and shorty combo with prepared perk just let the noobs die kill the enemies revive the noobs and use bmg to heal yourself and anyone smart enough to stay close and realize your not a charity or a monk. Sounds mean but it helps them learn strategy.

Mess7739
09-20-2013, 08:54 PM
I agree with Vox Animus, you should get credit for actual healing and reviving same as you get credit for dealing damage and killing, its part of the game and if people want to play as healers then good for them. There is a chance Trion will make Co-Ops have an optional level of difficulty added so having someone in a healing role with "revive oriented perks" loaded in your group will be a viable tactic, maybe even turn down the horrible BMG glow or create an Infector class healing weapon.

Mess7739
09-20-2013, 08:55 PM
I guess I don't. I run away from healers because to me it makes the game slower and more difficult.

I use regen shields and the regen and self medicated perks. I use cover effectively and keep a shotgun in my secondary slot just for those close range moments when my health starts to diminish and there's no cover around. I've got a self revive should I go down. Should I go down again before the self revive recharges I'm a piss poor player who just got a very needed wake up call to practice not being a suicidal maniac.

When something attacks me from behind I want my team mate to kill that enemy, not heal me then wait for me to finish the enemy I'm killing (which is now harder since you're frigging blinding me) then turn and kill that enemy too.

Why is this so hard to understand? I respect other people's opinions, but you're making the enemies tougher and making the fight more difficult and take longer by healing group members instead of killing enemies. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Pretty sure thats an opinion not a fact.

crasher
09-20-2013, 09:35 PM
Pretty sure thats an opinion not a fact.
Considering that almost everyone getting blinded by the BMG users claims that they'd prefer the BMG users picked up a gun and stopped asking for rewards from the kills the gunners make, I'd say it's getting to be a pretty strong opinion held by more and more people.

When the gunfighters ask the healers to stop healing, it's time for the healers to reevaluate who they're helping.

In most cases, the healers come to do good, and end up doing very well for themselves.

Kampo242519
09-21-2013, 05:54 AM
Considering that almost everyone getting blinded by the BMG users claims that they'd prefer the BMG users picked up a gun and stopped asking for rewards from the kills the gunners make, I'd say it's getting to be a pretty strong opinion held by more and more people.

When the gunfighters ask the healers to stop healing, it's time for the healers to reevaluate who they're helping.

In most cases, the healers come to do good, and end up doing very well for themselves.

Agreed I would rather see someone doing bmg damaging than healing- Healers are not necessary in co ops. If I die- I can revive in the same spot- If I die again I can wait for a revive or extract nearby, and not lose anything worth while like key codes, equipment or weapons.
You want an Atta boy- well, you rock for being a healer and giving of yourself for the good of the group. You want an Atta boy from trion- well take a ticket it will be a while

AngryCaveman
09-21-2013, 11:41 AM
So I like to switch into healer mode, and most of the time I have a few noobs teamed up with me in co-op, constantly saving them even when they're on the brink of death I get their in time.
I revive everyone instantly when they're down. I even use phoenix boost perk on my healing load out. I also sometimes with my BMG's manage to kill more than anyone else (if it's a Hellbug co-op map) and even still with the healing and the killing. I get no thanks+ always at the bottom of the board (only when healing) If I use say sword and pistol I'm never not first. I say healers deserve more credit.
Because most of the time I'm keeping brain dead players alive who walk into explosions and fire etc...
Which is harder work than killing. But I do like the feeling of keeping players alive.

I don't always get killed and revived by somebody but when I do , it's myself. (world's most interesting man playing defiance).

Elysion
09-21-2013, 01:35 PM
They should make bmgs actual support weapons with more secondary effects, ones that make sense by being opposites of what they do on heal/attack. We already have that useless shield one so buff it and do things like this:

Type 1: Healed targets do more damage, attacked targets do less damage. (be good for co-op)
Type 2: Healed targets (and user) take less damage, attacked targets take more damage. (be good for sieges)
Type 3: Healed targets (and user) move faster, attacked targets move slower. (gotta go fast)

Vox Animus
09-22-2013, 10:52 AM
They should make bmgs actual support weapons with more secondary effects, ones that make sense by being opposites of what they do on heal/attack. We already have that useless shield one so buff it and do things like this:

Type 1: Healed targets do more damage, attacked targets do less damage. (be good for co-op)
Type 2: Healed targets (and user) take less damage, attacked targets take more damage. (be good for sieges)
Type 3: Healed targets (and user) move faster, attacked targets move slower. (gotta go fast)

Yeah, and the shield one I would be more of a fan of it's stats were more like:

shields for 60% dmg, reflects 30% damage back at the enemy, and make mods to make that even better. also shielding regen shields slowly, but faster after modding.

Mess7739
09-24-2013, 01:50 PM
They should make bmgs actual support weapons with more secondary effects, ones that make sense by being opposites of what they do on heal/attack. We already have that useless shield one so buff it and do things like this:

Type 1: Healed targets do more damage, attacked targets do less damage. (be good for co-op)
Type 2: Healed targets (and user) take less damage, attacked targets take more damage. (be good for sieges)
Type 3: Healed targets (and user) move faster, attacked targets move slower. (gotta go fast)

I like Type 1 and 2 as optional effects to BMG heal/Damage charges. The BMG Heal Glow should be reduced and instead of surrounding the targeted player in the glow maybe just center mass like around their heart. The Overcharge ability visually enhances a character's arms in a red glow that doesn't seem to bother anyone, do the same for BMG but blue. For the most part people are just complaining about the visual effect blinding them during gameplay for everything else its just lame excuses, blaming healers for making enemies tougher and not helping by healing instead of killing, like these players know for a fact that the players not using BMGs are even helping kill the enemy spawns, I've seen people AFK at Arkfalls, Sieges and at the beginning of Co-Ops.