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View Full Version : Things that need to get fixed to help fix PvP.



Nefarious
10-08-2013, 08:21 PM
Cloak: Make Cloak work like "Active Camouflage" just like in every movie or video game to ever exist! You know where the person blends into their surroundings but they have a shape and outline about them....not like it is now being "Invisible". I think that's good enough considering you don't show up on Radar when shooting and when activated it instantly starts to recharge shields.

Invisibility = bad.

Active Camouflage = good.


Infector: Ammo carried for Players in PvP is lessened all around compared to what we carry in PvE. This in itself could help balance all kinds of weapons. So real powerful weapons like Infectors not only could be balanced by the amount of ammo a player could carry with it, which would be super easy since no other weapon shares the Infectors ammo type. But even more so Trion could get down to weapon specifics.

Like the Canker could carry the least amount of Ammo since its ridiculously strong, while something like the Incubator could carry the most amount of ammo since its the weakest and a defensive weapon. A trade off for Power or more ammo? Choices are good. And I think for the shear fact that Infectors Auto Hit then a ammo nerf wouldn't be that bad to do.


Detonators Lowering the rate of fire on the strongest ones. So they cant just be spammed all over the place. Big Boomers, Ground Pounders, Incinerators rates of fire get lowered so they are mainly be used to set up Traps instead of being uber assault weapons which get spammed hand in hand with bunny hopping.

As it stands now all Detonators have the same rate of fire of 2.1. That makes a very easy choice to use the strongest Detonators with the largest blast radius over all others. There is literally no balance with Detonators like there are with a lot of other weapon types.


BMG:BMGs shouldn't be able to self heal.


Surge Bolter: Well this is easy enough. How about some Hip Spread like every other gun in the game. And if its going to have Bolt Action Power and not get taking out of scope when shooting it then its rate of fire needs to be lowered along with its charge shot that it pumps out.


Cerberus: The Cerberus needs its turret to have some good spread to hit targets easier. As it is now the Cerberus is a huge target trying to shoot ants. It is hazardous to try and slow down to a snail crawl just to help line up shots for the gunner when the truck just gets pelted from sniper shots and infectors. No one takes cover from the turret, players go head to head with it. It is un-imposing. It is 100% faster and safer to just run players over with the Cerberus then it is to wait and let the gunner try and kill someone. That shouldn't be. The mini-gun on it should be the Cerberuses best factor, but its not, the bumper is. And that's not cool.

Dandrielas
10-08-2013, 08:40 PM
Isn't this a re-paste?

Nefarious
10-08-2013, 09:12 PM
Isn't this a re-paste?

Yeah and a good one at that. When I wrote it, it was quick and things just off the top of my head. But I thought over Detonators and added in about the Cerberus. Figured if anyone should see it, it should be the PvP guys. Hopefully this stuff gets fixed.

De357Mag5
10-08-2013, 11:03 PM
Cloak as it is now is definately overpowered and probably the most used (abused) skill I see in any match. the fact that it recharges your shields instead of droping them seems backwards to me, and even if you manage to hit some one while cloaked it doesn't mean you will knock them out of cloak is BS.

another issue that should be addressed is bunny hopping, a fully geared person carrying two guns can jump flat footed clear out of your aim retical? come on.

Milkandcookies
10-09-2013, 06:37 AM
Infectors: Once you shoot nonstop, after 8 or 14 shots, your gun overloads and you have to wait 3-5 seconds for the gun to maintain itself. There's an overload bar somewhere to show how close you are to overloading your infector. In order to keep the bar from overloading is stop shooting and the bar will go down gradually (maybe like 20% per second).

BMG: Reduce the amount you heal, but keep the heal number for healing your allies.

Cerberus: Increase the rate of fire for the turret and take out the ghost body affect from it.

Hope you, Trion, are writing down everyone's suggestion on how to bring people back to pvp because right now, we only have enough people for a lame shadow war match, but I doubt that you'll ever acknowledge the people's suggestion since you don't even care about us anymore...

Trion is basically a King Louie XVI and we're are in a handball court yelling suggestions to them, but they are barely listening to us.

All I have to say is this: let's keep spamming great suggestions to sort of maintain the amount of people here in Defiance and hope to the best that Trion would actually do what we ask.

Zewy
10-09-2013, 06:47 AM
Cloak and bunny jumping need to be fixed like have they fixed it in counter-strike that it slow you down and your aim was less accuret. They also need to lower the numbers of players needed to start a match and add better rewords so someone will play it it is totaly dead right now. wold love to see clan battles too.

Pilot
10-09-2013, 06:55 AM
I find the movement all wrong. It's not like you can sneak up on enemies. Your not playing Deus Ex. Although that kind of movement in the game would be fantastic. This is a game of outright brutality and force, in your face kind of play. It's kind of too bad it doesn't have a more real feel to it.

Nefarious
10-09-2013, 03:17 PM
Infectors: Once you shoot nonstop, after 8 or 14 shots, your gun overloads and you have to wait 3-5 seconds for the gun to maintain itself. There's an overload bar somewhere to show how close you are to overloading your infector. In order to keep the bar from overloading is stop shooting and the bar will go down gradually (maybe like 20% per second).

BMG: Reduce the amount you heal, but keep the heal number for healing your allies.

Cerberus: Increase the rate of fire for the turret and take out the ghost body affect from it.



Im all for these ideas to. But ppl will cry foul if Infectors over heated and say it would drastically effect PvE in some way even though it wouldn't.

duction
10-10-2013, 12:07 AM
So the only attack that works on bunny hopping detonators and incinerator users are Cloak and infectors... You want to ner themf? Your an idiot.

tD Showdown
10-10-2013, 09:12 AM
I kill bunny hoppers with an AR... Maybe you should just step your game up and learn how to aim. IMHO.. there are a few weapons that make the player, but at the end of the day, its the player that makes the weapon in terms of true skill, and that shows in every single match.

duction
10-10-2013, 09:21 AM
I've never seen you in pvp.

Okta
10-10-2013, 09:58 AM
I kill bunny hoppers with an AR... Maybe you should just step your game up and learn how to aim. IMHO.. there are a few weapons that make the player, but at the end of the day, its the player that makes the weapon in terms of true skill, and that shows in every single match.

you are 100% right



I've never seen you in pvp.

i always see you with canker

Nefarious
10-10-2013, 10:38 AM
So the only attack that works on bunny hopping detonators and incinerator users are Cloak and infectors... You want to ner themf? Your an idiot.

Did you even read what I said about Detonators? Bunny Hopping wouldn't be a problem if the rate of fire was tweaked with them. If they shot slower, for instance of lets say 0.8 like a Magnum (Which is really slow) then they would no longer be able to be spammed would they?

Shooting a Detonator with a 0.8 fire rate and hopping up and down would do you more harm then good at that point. You would be better off using it to set up road traps or mid to long distance volleys as they should be. But since Dets can just pump out shots with a 2.1+ fire rates we have what we have going on in game now with them being Uber Assault Weapons.

And Im just using 0.8 here as an example. Want to see what a 0.8 fire rate feels like? Buy a Magnum at nearly any Vendor and shoot it and imagine the shots were Detonator Bombs. And Im not saying I would want Detonators to have a 0.8 across the board. Its just a feel out and a example.

And just putting it out their I think lowering the trajectory speed of Detonator shots would be no good in that it would belittle its use in to many scenarios imo. But lowering the trajectory speed is a thought to. Maybe a even balance of tweaking the rate of fire and trajectory speed of shots could be done.

But out of anything Detonators probably have the worse nerf out of all my suggestions. Your precious Cloak and Auto Hit Infectors could be nerfed worse considering the way they work. All I ask for Cloak is that it should work like Active Camouflage and not Invisibility. And Infectors, they are never going to get the true nerf that they deserve, they will always be over powered and cheap.

Nefarious
10-10-2013, 10:52 AM
i always see you with canker

If that's the case then Duction would need two of them if he were to go up against Showdown. Showdown is surgical with his AR shots and unless you primarily use aimed guns yourself then you don't have a hope in hell to kill him with anything else other then Mass Radius or Auto Hit weapons. And considering what Okta says, it seems that's all you do use.

But Showdown is NA servers, that's why you don't see him.

But this going to be real funny because once the game starts to get its fixes in and becomes more inclined to being skill based then all the players who thought they were good are going to find out real quick they were never good to begin with.

ironcladtrash
10-10-2013, 02:42 PM
Any changes to cloak and it becomes completely useless, other then a shield recharge and the game will get stim packs soon anyway and further ruin any benefit to cloak. Unless you're a little special everyone could see you. I know Trick said it's wasn't supposed to work like it does now but I am calling that revisionist history. Why nerf all the shotguns because everyone was whining about cloak and shotgun use and not adjust the cloak? They should have adjusted that back then instead of ruining the shotgun mags, bonus stats, and damage. Cloak is the only defense against snipers and infectors right now. Normally I would like to launch rockets at snipers but they can swat them away like flies.

I made another suggestion about infectors that instead of nerfing them to limit who can use them
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?136581-Infector-suggestion-non-nerf
Infectors are fine for new people.

Besides with the exploiting and Trion not caring none of this really matters much anyway.

duction
10-10-2013, 03:09 PM
i use the heavy sawn off for pvp, the canker is for bunny hoppers, nerfarious id kick your *** 24/7 in pvp :rolleyes:

Nefarious
10-10-2013, 03:26 PM
Any changes to cloak and it becomes completely useless, other then a shield recharge and the game will get stim packs soon anyway and further ruin any benefit to cloak. Unless you're a little special everyone could see you. I know Trick said it's wasn't supposed to work like it does now but I am calling that revisionist history. Why nerf all the shotguns because everyone was whining about cloak and shotgun use and not adjust the cloak? They should have adjusted that back then instead of ruining the shotgun mags, bonus stats, and damage. Cloak is the only defense against snipers and infectors right now. Normally I would like to launch rockets at snipers but they can swat them away like flies.

I made another suggestion about infectors that instead of nerfing them to limit who can use them
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?136581-Infector-suggestion-non-nerf
Infectors are fine for new people.

Besides with the exploiting and Trion not caring none of this really matters much anyway.

Sorry dude but I think this is crazy. Like for sure Infectors are noob guns. But who to say who is new and who would be limited to using the Infector? Who like players level 500 or lower? Players would just make a new character then. I don't see the benefit of trying to accomplish these kinds of drastic changes and how they would do better over something then just fixing and tweaking the weapon type some more.

And as far as if Cloak gets changed and being worthless.

Is cloak worthless in every other shooter game that has it even though it doesn't make player entirely invisible? No.

So cloak in Defiance will work like Active Camouflage. Plus players don't show up on Radar when they shoot. And it recharges players shields when activated on top of stim use (still pending on if stims are aloud in PvP). Its just wont make players invisible anymore, they will be cloaked instead. Seems like a pretty good power to me.

duction
10-10-2013, 03:31 PM
if they introduce a cloak nerf they will have to give bunny hopping a cool down between jumps too, they balance each other out.

ironcladtrash
10-10-2013, 03:42 PM
Sorry dude but I think this is crazy. Like for sure Infectors are noob guns. But who to say who is new and who would be limited to using the Infector? Who like players level 500 or lower? Players would just make a new character then. I don't see the benefit of trying to accomplish these kinds of drastic changes and how they would do better over something then just fixing and tweaking the weapon type some more.

And as far as if Cloak gets changed and being worthless.

Is cloak worthless in every other shooter game that has it even though it doesn't make player entirely invisible? No.

So cloak in Defiance will work like Active Camouflage. Plus players don't show up on Radar when they shoot. And it recharges players shields when activated on top of stim use (still pending on if stims are aloud in PvP). Its just wont make players invisible anymore, they will be cloaked instead. Seems like a pretty good power to me.


If some one is that desperate to use an infector that they make a new character so be it. I figure once you played enough you could move on from it. Which was why I thought of tying it to the pursuits.

As far as cloak being useless in other shooter games, it pretty much is there too. If you can be seen it defeats the purpose. Players should show up on RADAR I never understood why they didn't when you shoot. Also show me another shooter game where rocket launchers and shotguns are horrible. Although, I love my courier but that is more of a grenade launcher and the VOT fragger is OK but you almost have to use a whole clip.


if they introduce a cloak nerf they will have to give bunny hopping a cool down between jumps too, they balance each other out.

This too.

Nefarious
10-10-2013, 03:46 PM
if they introduce a cloak nerf they will have to give bunny hopping a cool down between jumps too, they balance each other out.

They need to introduce a lot of nerfs. Bunny hopping is only as strong as it is with the weapons that are being used in conjunction with it.

duction
10-10-2013, 03:55 PM
They need to introduce a lot of nerfs. Bunny hopping is only as strong as it is with the weapons that are being used in conjunction with it.

Doesn't matter on the weapon should have a cool down either way

Nefarious
10-10-2013, 04:04 PM
If some one is that desperate to use an infector that they make a new character so be it. I figure once you played enough you could move on from it. Which was why I thought of tying it to the pursuits.

As far as cloak being useless in other shooter games, it pretty much is there too. If you can be seen it defeats the purpose. Players should show up on RADAR I never understood why they didn't when you shoot. Also show me another shooter game where rocket launchers and shotguns are horrible. Although, I love my courier but that is more of a grenade launcher and the VOT fragger is OK but you almost have to use a whole clip.



I guarantee you over a million scrip that if Infectors were limited to new characters only then 98.8% of players would make new characters to use it in PvP. There are level 5000 players who grind out every match using cloak and infectors even though they got all the pursuits done. I have no faith in the player base to hold some higher standard to not go out of their way to figure out how to use infectors if it were to be withheld from them.

And for Cloak again..

You say that Cloak will be useless if it were to work like Active Camouflage instead of how it currently does now, which is it works like Invisibility.

But you are looking and worrying about Cloak as a single thing and fail to notice that Cloak in the way it works now makes the 3 other powers useless in comparison. The way Cloak works currently defeats the purpose of the 3 other powers and a lot of weapon types entirely. Cloak currently diminishes aspects we don't get to see or experience in PvP.

I think toning Cloak down so other elements in the game can shine is more then worth it considering everything as a whole. Keeping Cloak as it is now is greedy. And it is the center point to killing PvP's variety.

Nefarious
10-10-2013, 04:08 PM
Doesn't matter on the weapon should have a cool down either way

I agree. The only time we see bunny hopping is in PvP. We never see bunny hopping in PvE because there is never a reason to do so in PvE.

There should be a pause between when we jump and our feet hit the ground. As it is now we are like a bouncing rubber balls. The moment our toes touch the floor we are up in the air again.

ironcladtrash
10-10-2013, 04:21 PM
I guarantee you over a million scrip that if Infectors were limited to new characters only then 98.8% of players would make new characters to use it in PvP. There are level 5000 players who grind out every match using cloak and infectors even though they got all the pursuits done. I have no faith in the player base to hold some higher standard to not go out of their way to figure out how to use infectors if it were to be withheld from them.


You could be right. I definitely don't trust anyone to hold to some higher moral standard either or else we wouldn't have the damage abuse or the ladder glitch. I like to find other ways to fix things that don't involve a nerf or that would mess up PVE.


You say that Cloak will be useless if it were to work like Active Camouflage instead of how it does now, which is it works like Invisibility.

But you are looking and worrying about Cloak as a single thing and fail to notice that Cloak in the way it works now makes the 3 other powers useless in comparison. The way Cloak works currently defeats the purpose of the 3 other powers and a lot of weapon types entirely. Currently cloak diminishes aspects we don't get to see or experience in PvP.

I think toning Cloak down so other elements in the game can shine is more then worth it as a whole. Keeping Cloak as it is now is greedy. And it is the center point to killing PvP's variety.

I still see plenty of people using Blur effectively. In the PVP section here there have been countless suggestions and conversations about how to change cloak and still keep the invisibility. For example getting rid of the shield recharge and giving it to Decoy. The other powers should be buffed to make them more attractive and not just outright nerf cloak.

tD Showdown
10-10-2013, 05:53 PM
I've never seen you in pvp.

I can post some youtube videos if you want to see, not a big deal to me.

tD Showdown
10-10-2013, 05:55 PM
Sorry dude but I think this is crazy. Like for sure Infectors are noob guns. But who to say who is new and who would be limited to using the Infector? Who like players level 500 or lower? Players would just make a new character then. I don't see the benefit of trying to accomplish these kinds of drastic changes and how they would do better over something then just fixing and tweaking the weapon type some more.

And as far as if Cloak gets changed and being worthless.

Is cloak worthless in every other shooter game that has it even though it doesn't make player entirely invisible? No.

So cloak in Defiance will work like Active Camouflage. Plus players don't show up on Radar when they shoot. And it recharges players shields when activated on top of stim use (still pending on if stims are aloud in PvP). Its just wont make players invisible anymore, they will be cloaked instead. Seems like a pretty good power to me.

I was level 400 using an AR and bolt action sniper posting top player scores. im not bragging or anything, im just saying you don't need an infector to be good, just practice. or be really really good at another game and aiming transfers over..

tD Showdown
10-10-2013, 05:57 PM
If that's the case then Duction would need two of them if he were to go up against Showdown. Showdown is surgical with his AR shots and unless you primarily use aimed guns yourself then you don't have a hope in hell to kill him with anything else other then Mass Radius or Auto Hit weapons. And considering what Okta says, it seems that's all you do use.

But Showdown is NA servers, that's why you don't see him.

But this going to be real funny because once the game starts to get its fixes in and becomes more inclined to being skill based then all the players who thought they were good are going to find out real quick they were never good to begin with.

thanks for the props :) Im currently making a montage of me outgunning kids with infectors, its gonna be hilarious how much hate I get for it.

duction
10-10-2013, 10:41 PM
thanks for the props :) Im currently making a montage of me outgunning kids with infectors, its gonna be hilarious how much hate I get for it.

Well..... What's your in game name or gamertag?

Dandrielas
10-11-2013, 12:00 AM
What if we made cloak like it is from Mass effect 3? It has a 11 second max duration with a 5 sec recharge. You shoot your weapon, and the cloak drops.

Milkandcookies
10-11-2013, 06:03 AM
Look guys lets just stop fighting amongst each other. Trion is the one that caused this whole dilemma to start so why not take the hate on them instead of your fellow forum members. It's Trion's fault for never doing what we say 95% of the time. There's no reason for us to fight if we know that Trion isn't going to do anything, but make matters worst and nerf everything, so we should direct are attention towards the question," Why aren't you listening to us Trion?"

We'll never come down to a solution if Trion never acts and pays attention to what is most important right now which is:
A)Getting the 4 dlcs done before April
B)Put your leftover attention towards the forums
C)Attempt to make everything balanced
D)Getting rid of all of the bugs

These are the 4 things Trion should really try to do before anything else even the chat system don't you think? What Trion is doing is doing A with once a week B then the next week A with C then the next week A with D then the next week back to A with B. Trion needs to focus on getting there fanbase back and I know for a fact that there trying to, but it won't happen if they don't balance out the 4 main problems and do all 4 at the same time.

I know am asking Trion for the impossible, but believe me it's possible...

For Trion...hopefully...:confused:

Moogletime
10-11-2013, 07:09 AM
So the only attack that works on bunny hopping detonators and incinerator users are Cloak and infectors... You want to ner themf? Your an idiot.

Agreed.

Just because your personal preferences get you murdered in PvP, don't mean we have to listen to your terrible ideas.

Eat my big boomer, as you usually do lol

Moogletime
10-11-2013, 07:10 AM
Did you even read what I said about Detonators? Bunny Hopping wouldn't be a problem if the rate of fire was tweaked with them. If they shot slower, for instance of lets say 0.8 like a Magnum (Which is really slow) then they would no longer be able to be spammed would they?

Shooting a Detonator with a 0.8 fire rate and hopping up and down would do you more harm then good at that point. You would be better off using it to set up road traps or mid to long distance volleys as they should be. But since Dets can just pump out shots with a 2.1+ fire rates we have what we have going on in game now with them being Uber Assault Weapons.

And Im just using 0.8 here as an example. Want to see what a 0.8 fire rate feels like? Buy a Magnum at nearly any Vendor and shoot it and imagine the shots were Detonator Bombs. And Im not saying I would want Detonators to have a 0.8 across the board. Its just a feel out and a example.

And just putting it out their I think lowering the trajectory speed of Detonator shots would be no good in that it would belittle its use in to many scenarios imo. But lowering the trajectory speed is a thought to. Maybe a even balance of tweaking the rate of fire and trajectory speed of shots could be done.

But out of anything Detonators probably have the worse nerf out of all my suggestions. Your precious Cloak and Auto Hit Infectors could be nerfed worse considering the way they work. All I ask for Cloak is that it should work like Active Camouflage and not Invisibility. And Infectors, they are never going to get the true nerf that they deserve, they will always be over powered and cheap.

your just mad cuz my big boomer is canoneer with 2 fire rate bonuses lol. almost 3.0 on my bad boy lol.

Also, this is a re-post and spam.

Okta
10-11-2013, 10:00 AM
i use the heavy sawn off for pvp, the canker is for bunny hoppers, nerfarious id kick your *** 24/7 in pvp :rolleyes:

if that was only true ...
ur 24/7 cankerer and u just use SOS in CqC
try ar/smg against cankers u will see why people want it too be nerfed

tD Showdown
10-11-2013, 01:03 PM
Well..... What's your in game name or gamertag?

tD Showdown is my GT and Comeback is my IGN

Nefarious
10-11-2013, 01:13 PM
Agreed.

Just because your personal preferences get you murdered in PvP, don't mean we have to listen to your terrible ideas.

Eat my big boomer, as you usually do lol

I don't know who you are. And I don't know if you notice, but everyone is eating big boomer shots. As if this is something unique or special. Its something that takes the skill aspect out of the game and out of the players hands entirely. One of the senseless and witless guns used in PvP. lol please go. Its not like you are using a Bull Rush.45 with success and talking me down and telling me how to play. You are bragging about using Big Boomers.

Keep in mind I use a VBI Assault Rifle and VBI Shotgun with either Overcharge or Decoy. And I do fairly good if not Im number 1 on a amount of occasions.

What crutches are you using again? Or more or less what are you using to do the all work of thinking for you? Big Boomer? Cloak? Again, like I said please go. You have zero room to talk about anything when it comes to balancing this game because you have only played on one side of the fence using nothing but the most cheapest and skilless things in the game.

I myself am standing in the middle trying to look at this thing as a whole.