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View Full Version : IMPORTANT NEWS about Next Gen, Xbox one & PS4 Online



Clarity Page
10-28-2013, 03:38 AM
I subscribe to this channel on youtube and he is generally very reliable, he doesn't just report on vague rumours so when he gives this news I believe him


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6h9l5Gb5hE

This is not only very interesting it will definitely affect the chance of getting a Next Gen port of Defiance

Spinesnap
10-28-2013, 05:50 AM
Any recap on what was said? I don't have access to youtube at work unfortunatly :(

Clarity Page
10-28-2013, 06:16 AM
Any recap on what was said? I don't have access to youtube at work unfortunatly :(

To summarise very briefly, sony had planned to have the same DRM rubbish on the ps4 that Microsoft were going to have on the xbox one (I personally have always suspected this anyway), then sony backed down on it before announcing it because Microsoft became ridiculed for the strict DRM (rightly so in my opinion).
So both the Playstation Network for ps4 and Xbox Live for Xb1 are set up for DRM usage and they are having a hard time undoing it.
Both systems will have day one patches to undo the drm system side but the changes they are having to make to the servers is causing network performance problems and is holding back the next gen games online features quite considerably.
(which is why watch dogs is delayed until Sony and MS fix there online network)

You should watch the video when you get home it goes into more detail but that's the jist of it

Lillith Valerian
10-28-2013, 06:36 AM
*rolls eyes*

Yeah, there's absolutely NO aggressive anti-PS4, aggressively-pro Microsoft/DRM agenda there at ALL. It felt like watching Fox News.

Why is this in the Defiance forums? Because of the weak 'Defiance on PS4' attempt at relativity?

N3gativeCr33p
10-28-2013, 06:50 AM
*rolls eyes*

Yeah, there's absolutely NO aggressive anti-PS3, aggressively-pro Microsoft/DRM agenda there at ALL. It felt like watching Fox News.

Why is this in the Defiance forums? Because of the weak 'Defiance on PS4' attempt at relativity?

Thanks for the summarization... I wasn't about to waste 8:50 from my life watching another shameless YouTube plug. ;)

Falandarin
10-28-2013, 06:54 AM
*rolls eyes*

Yeah, there's absolutely NO aggressive anti-PS3, aggressively-pro Microsoft/DRM agenda there at ALL. It felt like watching Fox News.

Why is this in the Defiance forums? Because of the weak 'Defiance on PS4' attempt at relativity?

What an aggressively cheerful person you are. Bad morning? :)

Lillith Valerian
10-28-2013, 06:58 AM
What an aggressively cheerful person you are. Bad morning? :)

I don't think pointing out a needlessly negative, off-topic post makes me negative. Wait, let's get a ruling on that...yes, yes, the game show host is affirming that.

I do *not* have my poopy pants on this morning.

Clarity Page
10-28-2013, 06:59 AM
*rolls eyes*

Yeah, there's absolutely NO aggressive anti-PS3, aggressively-pro Microsoft/DRM agenda there at ALL. It felt like watching Fox News.

Why is this in the Defiance forums? Because of the weak 'Defiance on PS4' attempt at relativity?

Seriously this guy is completely non biased he games mostly on pc but has a ps3 & wii U and used to have an xbox 360, i do not read any "anti-PS3(ps4?), aggressively-pro Microsoft/DRM agenda" into this,

If you watched his other videos you would see he is a very reliable news source non biased, doesnt make stuff up for views and doesn't report on vague fanboy made rumours, he just says it as it is.
How could it be anti ps4 and pro MS drm at the same time?

Anyhow ive put up on the defiance forums for a few reasons
A- It affects the chances of getting next gen defiance
B- Many or at least some people here will be thinking about next gen
C- The press aren't allowed to talk about this so the only way to spread this is through the power of the net
Surely as gamers this is relevant to whether we use the systems or not after all gaming is changing,


Thanks for the summarization... I wasn't about to waste 8:50 from my life watching another shameless YouTube plug. ;)
still worth a watch, this isn't a plug I have nothing to do with the channel its just a channel I subscribe too, its far better than ign & gamespot for actual news

.................................................. ......................................
Hang on a moment why do i have to defend my self here, I just trying to spread some news that I would of though many other gamers would have deemed note worthy,

Lillith Valerian
10-28-2013, 07:09 AM
Seriously this guy is completely non biased he games mostly on pc but has a ps3 & wii U and used to have an xbox 360, i do not read any "anti-PS3(ps4?), aggressively-pro Microsoft/DRM agenda" into this,

If you watched his other videos you would see he is a very reliable news source non biased, doesnt make stuff up for views and doesn't report on vague fanboy made rumours, he just says it as it is.
How could it be anti ps4 and pro MS drm at the same time?

Anyhow ive put up on the defiance forums for a few reasons
A- It affects the chances of getting next gen defiance
B- Many or at least some people here will be thinking about next gen
C- The press aren't allowed to talk about this so the only way to spread this is through the power of the net
Surely as gamers this is relevant to whether we use the systems or not

There's really only two realistic ways to explain the possible motivations for his method of conveying this 'news'. The first would be to use rumor and unverifiable sources to incite anger and direct it at someone or something in order to generate viewers. The second would be to seize an opportunity (fabricated or not) to support anti-ownership DRM policy. He's clearly attempting to paint Microsoft backing down on DRM as a negative thing, which it wasn't.

I'll pass on both.

Clarity Page
10-28-2013, 07:21 AM
There's really only two realistic ways to explain the possible motivations for his method of conveying this 'news'. The first would be to use rumor and unverifiable sources to incite anger and direct it at someone or something in order to generate viewers. The second would be to seize an opportunity (fabricated or not) to support anti-ownership DRM policy.

I'll pass on both.
If you want to view it like that fine, but i have subscribed to him for some time because unlike a lot of other youtube reporters he actually speaks sense and that's why he has a lot of subscribers, perhaps his delivery was a bit "off" but hes always accurate and never biased.
He's completely against Xb1 style DRM, doesn't make up BS, if he says he got a source he's got a source (its not the first time hes got accurate information from an unknown source), he reports it as it is if the content of the news angers people it there own doing hes just reporting the facts

Spinesnap
10-28-2013, 07:30 AM
Makes sense, I think alot of people figured about PS4, and xbox one having the same DRM although they played it good on PS4's part got to give them that. Although I "Highly" doubt it would effect there server's tho, all what the DRM did was allow Discs, and not just digital downloads. I am sure if it did impact the servers someway microsoft release would have been delayed, Just a thought tho.

Bentu
10-28-2013, 07:32 AM
Anyone. Whats DRM? Bit of a technophobe here.

Lillith Valerian
10-28-2013, 07:36 AM
He's completely against Xb1 style DRM

Then by discounting the second possibility, the first is verified. If he was previously 'against' DMR, but can now post this video, he's chasing viewer hits by inciting people with a needlessly sensationalist approach.

That's objectively speaking. If I wanted to give an unrelated personal opinion, I'd criticize the needless bro-speak ('pants-sh*tt*ngly'? Really?).

Steel Fire
10-28-2013, 07:36 AM
DRM = Digital Rights Management, a.k.a copy protection. In this case, systems that didn't allow people to direct trade games without going through authorized resellers. However it was limited to if the game publisher chose to utilize that functionality.

The downside is that prevents people from just swapping/trading/sharing games. The plus side is it would stop EB/GameStop practices of giving squat for used games and reselling them for near new prices. Personally, I think the real target was game rental services.

Bentu
10-28-2013, 07:42 AM
DRM = Digital Rights Management, a.k.a copy protection. In this case, systems that didn't allow people to direct trade games without going through authorized resellers. However it was limited to if the game publisher chose to utilize that functionality.

Thank you kind sir/madam. :)

On topic I guess I will be buying a new 360 as this new generation stuff is confusing me.

Clarity Page
10-28-2013, 07:44 AM
Then by discounting the second possibility, the first is verified. If he was previously 'against' DMR, but can now post this video, he's chasing viewer hits by inciting people with a needlessly sensationalist approach.

That's objectively speaking. If I wanted to give an unrelated personal opinion, I'd criticize the needless bro-speak ('pants-sh*tt*ngly'? Really?).

Isnt it kind of important that we know both companys were going to implement drm in this fashion after all they will shape the future of gaming and for all we know the next-next gen consoles could be online only, anyway the point of this news is that the servers are going to be shaky on launch for both company's because of changes to the drm policy which obviously is a good thing but has hindered next gens launch somewhat

Lillith Valerian
10-28-2013, 07:46 AM
However it was limited to if the game publisher chose to utilize that functionality.

Microsoft has plenty of corporate dominance to ensure that publishers play to the rules Microsoft creates. Effectively forcing developers to utilize functions like kinect when their original designs don't call for it is an example. It's disingenuous to say that publishers always have a 'choice'.

Yes, it's complicated, but at the end of the day, Microsoft's attempt at DMR was nothing less that an attempt to fundamentally and permanently re-write the concept of ownership.

Clarity Page
10-28-2013, 07:52 AM
Microsoft has plenty of corporate dominance to ensure that publishers play to the rules Microsoft creates. Effectively forcing developers to utilize functions like kinect when their original designs don't call for it is an example. It's disingenuous to say that publishers always have a 'choice'.

Yes, it's complicated, but at the end of the day, Microsoft's attempt at DMR was nothing less that an attempt to fundamentally and permanently re-write the concept of ownership.

I cant deny that im in full agreement there which is why i find it kind a scary that we almost had a DRM ruled generation,
this is why I don't under stand fanboys we need the competition because if it was just MS or just Sony we most likely would have a DRM ruled generation.

N3gativeCr33p
10-28-2013, 08:18 AM
still worth a watch...

Based on Lillith's response, this sounds extremely doubtful.

Misfit501
10-28-2013, 08:38 AM
Glad I'm not getting either one of them for a while!

Spinesnap
10-28-2013, 09:01 AM
Microsoft has plenty of corporate dominance to ensure that publishers play to the rules Microsoft creates. Effectively forcing developers to utilize functions like kinect when their original designs don't call for it is an example. It's disingenuous to say that publishers always have a 'choice'.

Yes, it's complicated, but at the end of the day, Microsoft's attempt at DMR was nothing less that an attempt to fundamentally and permanently re-write the concept of ownership.

Oh lord one of these guys, these conspiracy artist love these debates. Let me clear something with you, do you know having a disc copy of a game doesnt mean you own it, sure you have it physically but according to Microsoft EULA they have complete control over the content. You are still just licensing the game. So in other words they can always send a update to your console to block your disc owned game anytime they want. Sure you could always keep the console offline so that wouldnt happen, but whats the point in having a 360 if you can't go online with it.

Steel Fire
10-28-2013, 09:26 AM
Oh lord one of these guys, these conspiracy artist love these debates. Let me clear something with you, do you know having a disc copy of a game doesnt mean you own it, sure you have it physically but according to Microsoft EULA they have complete control over the content. You are still just licensing the game. So in other words they can always send a update to your console to block your disc owned game anytime they want. Sure you could always keep the console offline so that wouldnt happen, but whats the point in having a 360 if you can't go online with it.
This. Most software EULAs have always contained language disallowing resale of the software, whether that be physical or digital. I also have little doubt that this was less a response to MS wanting to "force" publishers to go along with MS's perceived draconian rulership than it was a response to publishers wanting a better method to prevent cracked and pirated games and cut off game rental companies.

Make no mistake, those big publishers have just as much clout with the console companies. MS nor Sony want someone like EA to pull their business and give it to the other guy exclusively, or whoever makes Battlefield or CoD games too. A console maker can't afford companies taking high value franchises away. If publishers hadn't supported that DRM strategy it wouldn't have made it to public announcement.

Angeleus09
10-28-2013, 09:44 AM
Sorry, I'm still confused as to why is this on the Defiance forum?

skepticck
10-28-2013, 09:55 AM
Glad I'm not getting either one of them for a while!

Glad i only game on PC :D lol

twitch reflex
10-28-2013, 10:11 AM
Maybe its time to get a PC. PC's had what consoles call next gen graphics more than 3 years ago. Games normally cost less on PC, they dont charge you a yearly subscription, and have thousands of free to play games. Almost all console games are on PC and you can play them with a controller and connect it to your TV. You initially pay more that the console but in the long run save a lot of money and get a better experience by having more content thru mods and also it looks a lot better.

Lillith Valerian
10-28-2013, 10:43 AM
This. Most software EULAs have always contained language disallowing resale of the software, whether that be physical or digital. I also have little doubt that this was less a response to MS wanting to "force" publishers to go along with MS's perceived draconian rulership than it was a response to publishers wanting a better method to prevent cracked and pirated games and cut off game rental companies.

Make no mistake, those big publishers have just as much clout with the console companies. MS nor Sony want someone like EA to pull their business and give it to the other guy exclusively, or whoever makes Battlefield or CoD games too. A console maker can't afford companies taking high value franchises away. If publishers hadn't supported that DRM strategy it wouldn't have made it to public announcement.

You're completely missing the point.

Language disallowing resale itself is anti-ownership, which is why it will fail if directly challenged (used games, anyone?). Knowing this, Microsoft tried to spearhead a move that would make it "physically" impossible to do so, via an always-online authorization. Yes, game companies would love to curt-tail used sales also (setting aside the argument whether in would actually gain them more profit to do so), but that doesn't change Microsoft's ability to strong-arm policies when it's in their best profit interests.

It's a false bifurcation fallacy to assume one precludes the other.

Spinesnap
10-28-2013, 11:07 AM
You're completely missing the point.

Language disallowing resale itself is anti-ownership, which is why it will fail if directly challenged (used games, anyone?). Knowing this, Microsoft tried to spearhead a move that would make it "physically" impossible to do so, via an always-online authorization. Yes, game companies would love to curt-tail used sales also (setting aside the argument whether in would actually gain them more profit to do so), but that doesn't change Microsoft's ability to strong-arm policies when it's in their best profit interests.

It's a false bifurcation fallacy to assume one precludes the other.

Gotta love these internet lawyers, look around this is becomming a digital world. Even those PS4/Xbox One will also have discs, if you have been keeping up with the press interviews etc. They are pushing digital downloads, they will more than likely have a digital store available kind of like steam, and will have sales etc. Sooner or later consumers will get comfortable with digital delivery and they will phase out disc games for good. How do I know this? Well it happened to PC gaming.

Why do you think both console makers (Sony, and Microsoft) is heavily invested in the "cloud"?

Lillith Valerian
10-28-2013, 01:32 PM
Gotta love these internet lawyers, look around this is becomming a digital world. Even those PS4/Xbox One will also have discs, if you have been keeping up with the press interviews etc. They are pushing digital downloads, they will more than likely have a digital store available kind of like steam, and will have sales etc. Sooner or later consumers will get comfortable with digital delivery and they will phase out disc games for good. How do I know this? Well it happened to PC gaming.

Why do you think both console makers (Sony, and Microsoft) is heavily invested in the "cloud"?

They are heavily investing in the cloud because it can eventually further cement their ability to restrict use of purchased products, as well as theoretically improve the performance of games by offloading some processing from the console and shifting it online.

Having a physical disc as opposed to a digital copy shouldn't matter when it comes to ownership. If you purchase it, you should have the right to access it whenever you like on your device, and sell it as well. It's a combination of corporate agenda and consumer ignorance that has lead companies to push away the concept of ownership as far as it has, utilizing the 'because it's digital, it doesn't count' non-logic. What's amazing is the strange behavior of consumers like you who argue *for* it, as if the convenience of 'digital only' can't exist with true ownership. It's perpetuating an exploitation of yourself. Bizarre.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, if any. Nothing you says counters or invalidates anything I have said. Judging by your insult ('internet lawyer'?) perhaps you're merely looking for an argument for the sake of arguing?