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View Full Version : LGBT Stuff... Stahma/Kenya, Ulysses/Skevur.



Bakku
12-07-2013, 03:51 AM
So at first I was thinking "Well hey, there's two gay couples in the show. That's nice." And then I was like "Oh wait... This happened in SW:TOR too-..."

What I'm talking about, is the fact that Bioware had promised same-gender romance options with companion characters, then launched without them, adding them in with the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion Pack, making a lot of LGBT fans feel like their version of romance was being lumped in with the slimy, depraved Hutts. (Admittedly, I haven't played SW:TOR since the expansion went live, or seen how these romances turned out, so maybe this is irrelevant...)

But onto Defiance... Skipping over Stahma/Kenya for now and hitting the nail hardest with Ulysses/Skevur.

Ulysses is a bioman, Datak's bioman, and in the episode "A Well Respected Man" (spoilers) you find out that he's involved in the nasty process of capturing people, scaring the hell out of them and pumping the adrenaline out of their bodies to make a drug called adreno. Not a very nice bioman, no-... And Skevur, who Ulysses has had sexual relations with, isn't any better. Despite the whole "Castithans are beautiful" business, Skevur is quite frankly gross, and on top of being gross he's depicted as incredibly weak and pathetic, even described by Datak as disgusting (and I thought Castithans had few reservations about sex)... And THEN you find out that apparently he's a sick psychopathic torturer of some kind, as Datak mentions sending him and his skinning knives to pay Kenya Rosewater a visit. Not a single redeemable quality about the guy. So apparently, this is how Syfy sees gay men and wants to portray them...?

Oh-... But women. The women must be beautiful, of course. Even if they are more into each other, that's just icing on the cake, right guys? Hasn't that been the stance on L/BF (lesbian/bi female) romances in games, T.V., movies, etc.? "Gay is only okay when it's two hot girls and I get to watch or join", like Camile Wray and her girlfriend in Stargate Universe, or Callie and Arizona from Gray's Anatomy, or the implied affection between Mulan and Aurora in Once Upon a Time (to name a few). So yeah, of course Stahma/Kenya happened, and of course one of them had to be a lovable prostitute, with an abusive ex-husband, who's biggest flaw would have to be the fact that she doesn't always get along with her sister. And the other one, well she's one of the more powerful characters in the show when you think about it, with Datak wrapped around her finger, unrivaled beauty and a silver tongue... Except, despite how "great" these two characters may be, you'll notice that both seem to have some questionable morals.

Maybe I'm just in a mood and this is getting to me more than it should. I'll admit that I'm sometimes too sensitive about the fact that LGBT people don't seem to get a lot of heroes or role models in entertainment, and maybe I am "just looking for a fight"... But if anyone else sees what I'm seeing and feels like something needs to change, I'd like to hear it. One of the things we struggle with, sometimes, is remembering that we're not alone and that there's nothing wrong with us. To run into something like Ulysses/Skevur after "handling" the "Rise of the Hutts and H***s" is just disappointing, because I was a fan of scifi long before I realized I was more a fan of Han Solo than Leia, and I don't really like being "demonized" by something I love.

Mess7739
12-07-2013, 08:34 AM
You might be in a mood and this is getting to you more than it should but its ok because its kind of true. :)

"Gay is only okay when it's two hot girls and I get to watch or join", like Camile Wray and her girlfriend in Stargate Universe, or Callie and Arizona from Gray's Anatomy, or the implied affection between Mulan and Aurora in Once Upon a Time (to name a few).

I strongly feel that woman on woman play in TV shows are there to give men more incentive to watch the shows and thats all. I don't think that it was done purposely to play down the appeal of homosexuality between men or play up the appeal of homosexuality between women but done to increase ratings since a majority of men are heterosexual and a large group of them enjoy watching that kind of thing.

My favorite fictional gay couple has to be Aaron and Eric from the the Walking Dead's comic series, their relationship is better portrayed and more realistic than Ulysses/Skevur. I know of a few badass/interesting gay characters from some novels I have and there are probably other gay male couples in other science fiction shows that don't follow the theme they use in TV, its just ****ty that the more popular ones do. I feel bad that you feel like you're being demonized by something you love, no one deserves that.

Bane_Of_Legends
12-07-2013, 09:02 AM
Bioware has been a supporter of LGBT for awhile with the Dragon Age and Mass Effect series having same-sex relationship options. Yeah, they said they expected to have LGBT content with the release of SWTOR. There was unexpected issues. After the release of Rise of the Hutt Cartel EP, a statement was made as to why SWTOR didn't release with LGBT content, and why it's only confined to one world. Lead for Bioware said in the statement somewhere that the companions in SWTOR couldn't be made to work like the companions in their other games. Also said in the statement was that Bioware was currently working on moving SWTOR to f2p, as the primary goal, and that more LGBT content would be added afterwards. In an industry where LGBT relationships aren't really supported, Bioware is really cool about giving players the option, and I frown at anyone that gives them shtako about it. Yes, you can have your cake, but don't stuff your face with it.

The SyFy shows that I can think of off the top of my head that feature LGBT characters are Face Off, Ghost Hunters, Battlestar Galactica, Caprica, Warehouse 13, Lost Girl, and Defiance. I wouldn't necessarily say their views on the LGBT community are bad. They've made some very small decisions in some shows that caused major uproars by gay advocacy EXTREMISTS (there is a difference between saying your rights are important, and saying your rights are more important than others). Most of the LGBT community has no problems with their shows though, and actually quite enjoys them. You can see that just by looking at the comments their shows get from LGBT watchers. I don't think there is a single article anywhere that states complaints about the portrayal of LGBT in Defiance.

Allow me to amend your statement "Gay is only okay when it's two hot girls and I get to watch or join". It should actually be "Gay is only ok when it's expressed in the same manner is straight would be". I'm fine with walking through Walmart and seeing either a straight or a gay couple holding hands. I'm not fine with walking through Walmart and seeing either a straight or a gay couple eating each others face. As long as gays present themselves with the same sophistication as straights are expected to, I see absolutely nothing wrong with LGBT relationships.

You're correct, LGBT do not get a lot of heroes or role models in entertainment. Which baffles me as to why they complain about the ones they do get, instead of asking for more. No television show is made specifically with the thought "Hey, we don't like LGBT people, so let's make the ones in our show the most detestable, vile, low-life scum our viewers have ever seen". The Ulysses/Skevur romance could have been made as a spur-of-the-moment thing, a way to represent gay man in a show that represents lesbian women, or vice versa. Or it could simply be that one of the characters playing as Ulysses/Skevur is actually gay, and wanted to be able to express that in the show, so the producer had to figure a way to do that. I quite frankly don't see any issue with it.

I'm not trying to demonize you for what you love, and I doubt anyone on these forums or on the SyFy channel will try to either. I'll even give you a hug if you want one. :)

Btw, Luke Skywalker is the best. ;)

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 04:45 PM
I can't believe this is actually a conversation.

Bonehead
12-07-2013, 04:55 PM
I really liked Perry from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.A lot.

Nefarious
12-07-2013, 05:03 PM
http://img.pandawhale.com/43689-Christian-Bale-dafuq-wtf-gif-4Vsk.gif

The Bioman didn't have sex with anyone on the show. I seen ever episode twice thus far and never saw this.

3rdpig
12-07-2013, 05:30 PM
Percentage of LBGT in America (and I'm assuming it's similar around the world) is 3.8%. From what I can tell from watching TV and movies LBGT has a far, far bigger representation than 3.8%. There's hardly a single movie or TV show that doesn't have representation in some form.

On the other hand, 10% of people in the USA are legally blind. What kind of representation do you see in the movies for the blind? How about the deaf? How about other types of handicaps?

Personally, from the standpoint of a straight male, LGBT seems way, way over represented in the American media.

For the record, I'm a hardcore libertarian and I don't give a rat's backside what anyone does with their sexual organs assuming they're doing it with another consenting adult.

ironcladtrash
12-07-2013, 05:41 PM
Percentage of LBGT in America (and I'm assuming it's similar around the world) is 3.8%. From what I can tell from watching TV and movies LBGT has a far, far bigger representation than 3.8%. There's hardly a single movie or TV show that doesn't have representation in some form.

On the other hand, 10% of people in the USA are legally blind. What kind of representation do you see in the movies for the blind? How about the deaf? How about other types of handicaps?

Personally, from the standpoint of a straight male, LGBT seems way, way over represented in the American media.

For the record, I'm a hardcore libertarian and I don't give a rat's backside what anyone does with their sexual organs assuming they're doing it with another consenting adult.

This is my sentiment too. As far as it's only OK if to hot women are gay, there are no ugly women or even men on TV unless that is the purpose of their character.

I really don't see why any of this is an issue at all. It really should be a big collective "Who gives a ****?" If they were promoting discrimination then I would make a big deal about it. They're not so why does every TV show have to have some message to it? Can't I just watch a sci-fi show and not worry about what group they did or did not include?

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 05:47 PM
Yeah, I don't give a squat what people like in their various orifices.

Just rather not hear about it. It's okay to be proud AND quiet.

DanteYoda
12-07-2013, 05:49 PM
I can't believe this is actually a conversation.

That is why the conversation came up, because people still can't believe these things, like its not 2013 etc.. I'm not LBGT but i have friends that are and yeah they feel demonized too, just look at the media to see why.

Yeah, I don't give a squat what people like in their various orifices.

Just rather not hear about it. It's okay to be proud AND quiet.

That there is the problem and what pisses them off..honestly if you didn't care, you wouldn't give a damn about loud or quiet.

Lillith Valerian
12-07-2013, 06:26 PM
Comparing 'legally blind' people to gays is called a false equivalency, which is one of many logical fallacies used by someone who either doesn't have a grasp of the issue they're discussing, or are deliberately attempting to distort it.

'Legally blind' people (such as myself, who has the worst dioptre rating two optometrists have ever encountered) do not suffer random acts of violence for being blind, or routinely get discriminated against by policy. Attempting to compare the two is as absurd as requesting that people remain politely silent while they still suffer discrimination.

It's a modern day spin on the old 'loud uppity women / Jews / Blacks would be better off keeping quiet' that conservatives use as a form of passive resistance to progression, and it has absolute zero empirical truth value. If you find yourself getting irritated over progressive activism, you should take a long, reflective look within yourself. Instead of asking, 'why do they care so much' you should be asking 'why do *you* care that *they* care so much?'

Of course, the answer is going to require honesty that may not be possible.

Bane_Of_Legends
12-07-2013, 07:50 PM
Percentage of LBGT in America (and I'm assuming it's similar around the world) is 3.8%. From what I can tell from watching TV and movies LBGT has a far, far bigger representation than 3.8%. There's hardly a single movie or TV show that doesn't have representation in some form.

On the other hand, 10% of people in the USA are legally blind. What kind of representation do you see in the movies for the blind? How about the deaf? How about other types of handicaps?

Personally, from the standpoint of a straight male, LGBT seems way, way over represented in the American media.

For the record, I'm a hardcore libertarian and I don't give a rat's backside what anyone does with their sexual organs assuming they're doing it with another consenting adult.

I can assure you that there is substantially more LBGT people than 3.8% of the American population.
I read the statistics as well and I can tell you why they got that number.

You see they did statistics for each state. Well, each state either has it legal or illegal.
The legality of what you're doing would obviously effect the kind of information you give to a government affiliated institution.
Also to take into consideration, think about all the LGBT people that stay "in the closet" for fear of discrimination and abuse.
And finally account for all the people that didn't choose to, or refused to, take part in their government sponsored survey.
I wonder for whatever reason... *wink wink*

Coming from a guy who lives in the state that got a somewhat low score at 2.9%, I can say with 100% certainty that of all the people I have met, a great GREAT deal more than 2.9% were LGBT, and a great GREAT deal less than 97.1% were purely straight.
This is also coming from a guy who has had more people than he can remotely remember come to him and "come out of the closet" for their first time, either for comfort and reassurance or as a means for them to practice how they'll come out to their parents, extended family, public, etc. It's much easier to confess to someone you know that isn't judgemental, than it is to confess to an entire nation. I doubt even a quarter of the LGBT people that I know have come fully out of the closet to the public, and while that's a statistic based from my brain alone, which isn't anywhere near NASA-worthy, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that quarter was actually correct.

Do you see the blind and deaf being discriminated against? Do you see them being beaten and called sick names just because they're blind and deaf? You can go anywhere and see a man in a wheelchair reaching for something on a top shelf get assistance from someone with enough common courtesy to ask if he needs any. You can't go anywhere and see absolutely no discrimination against LGBT people. It's always religion, or politics, or self-righteousness, or some other idiotic reason getting in the way of fellow human beings getting the rights that every other human being has.

I do respect and thank you for not being an against-LGBT snob.

Bonehead
12-07-2013, 07:58 PM
Comparing 'legally blind' people to gays is called a false equivalency, which is one of many logical fallacies used by someone who either doesn't have a grasp of the issue they're discussing, or are deliberately attempting to distort it.

'Legally blind' people (such as myself, who has the worst dioptre rating two optometrists have ever encountered) do not suffer random acts of violence for being blind, or routinely get discriminated against by policy. Attempting to compare the two is as absurd as requesting that people remain politely silent while they still suffer discrimination.

It's a modern day spin on the old 'loud uppity women / Jews / Blacks would be better off keeping quiet' that conservatives use as a form of passive resistance to progression, and it has absolute zero empirical truth value. If you find yourself getting irritated over progressive activism, you should take a long, reflective look within yourself. Instead of asking, 'why do they care so much' you should be asking 'why do *you* care that *they* care so much?'

Of course, the answer is going to require honesty that may not be possible.

^^^gold star^^^

Bonehead
12-07-2013, 07:58 PM
I can assure you that there is substantially more LBGT people than 3.8% of the American population.
I read the statistics as well and I can tell you why they got that number.

You see they did statistics for each state. Well, each state either has it legal or illegal.
The legality of what you're doing would obviously effect the kind of information you give to a government affiliated institution.
Also to take into consideration, think about all the LGBT people that stay "in the closet" for fear of discrimination and abuse.
And finally account for all the people that didn't choose to, or refused to, take part in their government sponsored survey.
I wonder for whatever reason... *wink wink*

Coming from a guy who lives in the state that got a somewhat low score at 2.9%, I can say with 100% certainty that of all the people I have met, a great GREAT deal more than 2.9% were LGBT, and a great GREAT deal less than 97.1% were purely straight.
This is also coming from a guy who has had more people than he can remotely remember come to him and "come out of the closet" for their first time, either for comfort and reassurance or as a means for them to practice how they'll come out to their parents, extended family, public, etc. It's much easier to confess to someone you know that isn't judgemental, than it is to confess to an entire nation. I doubt even a quarter of the LGBT people that I know have come fully out of the closet to the public, and while that's a statistic based from my brain alone, which isn't anywhere near NASA-worthy, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that quarter was actually correct.

Do you see the blind and deaf being discriminated against? Do you see them being beaten and called sick names just because they're blind and deaf? You can go anywhere and see a man in a wheelchair reaching for something on a top shelf get assistance from someone with enough common courtesy to ask if he needs any. You can't go anywhere and see absolutely no discrimination against LGBT people. It's always religion, or politics, or self-righteousness, or some other idiotic reason getting in the way of fellow human beings getting the rights that every other human being has.

I do respect and thank you for not being an against-LGBT snob.

^^^another gold star ^^^

cypheon
12-07-2013, 08:08 PM
while this is a good topic for an honest and open discussion........

why didn't we have this topic months ago when the episode(s) had just aired and it was fresh on everyones mind...?

other than that one question i have nothing to add that's of value. what you do in your bedroom has absolutely no effect on what i do in mine, and that statement -should- work both ways (sadly, currently, it doesn't, but we're trying to fix that)

Elastik Spastik
12-07-2013, 08:17 PM
People are gay, people are straight, people are disabled (me), people are obese, people are thin, people are different races, people have different religions etc etc. At the end of the day we are all people. We are all the same. But still everyone in these categories gets discriminated against by someone or other. It's everywhere and aimed at all kinds of people from all walks of life.

Silent Night
12-07-2013, 09:35 PM
I can't believe this is actually a conversation.
+1 hahahahaha

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 09:42 PM
That is why the conversation came up, because people still can't believe these things, like its not 2013 etc.. I'm not LBGT but i have friends that are and yeah they feel demonized too, just look at the media to see why.


That there is the problem and what pisses them off..honestly if you didn't care, you wouldn't give a damn about loud or quiet.

No, really. How many times have I explained how much I love (that used to say v ag in al) intercourse to you? (I'm male).

Exactly. Just suck what you want, and shush!

Bakku
12-07-2013, 09:43 PM
The Bioman didn't have sex with anyone on the show. I seen ever episode twice thus far and never saw this.

We didn't see it, thankfully (unlike Datak and Stahma's quicky during the election >.>). It was, however, mentioned that Skevur was the "object of the bioman's affections" or something like that, it was made pretty clear, but still rushed past. Which, honestly, I'm thankful for, because as I tried to say I am more upset about gay characters being demonized than I am about them not being more common. I don't want plenty of gay characters in entertainment if they're all going to be sadistic monsters and/or pathetic vermin to be kicked around or killed off.


@ Percentages of gay people.

That seems wrong... I had always thought it was closer to 10%, but who knows? All I know is that the MAJORITY of the gay/bi people I know or have known have been in the closet and/or in complete denial. I came out when I was 15, and all I'll say is that while I was the only "out" gay guy at my high school I was NOT the only guy who was into guys. It sucked, honestly, knowing that there were others like me but they refused to stand up and say so. Some have dated girls, some even married women, and continue to view their "deviant interests" as something to be ashamed of and kept secret. Something like eight of the ten or so guys who I've "almost dated" have been closeted, and that's not okay with me, for a 20-30 year old man to be lying to himself, his family and his friends about who he likes/loves, that's unacceptable to me. I'll admit that is mostly on the guys for not being strong enough to be honest, but it's also partially on society and entertainment for making them feel like they CAN'T be honest.

ANYWAY.

I will also admit that this thread probably shouldn't have happened. It was a result of many things building up, making me focus in on the terrible representation of gay men via Ulysses/Skevur. It does annoy me, but I don't think I was right to bring it to the forums, because nothing good could possibly come of it. I really didn't intend to make anyone feel uncomfortable or create a "scene", sometimes we just need to vent and we don't choose the best place to do it. Would I like to see a positively portrayed gay couple in scifi one of these days? Heckyes. Do I want them in every show with make-out or sex scenes every episode? No. If it's going to be excessive and TRY to offend people, that's not something I want. It's not like I want Nolan to be gay, or Tommy or Datak or Alak, just a side-character, as "important" to the story as Skevur or Ulysses without being as blatantly immoral.

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 09:49 PM
...making me focus in on the terrible representation of gay men via Ulysses/Skevur. It does annoy me...

As for Stahma....she was furthering Stahma's interests. I didn't look deeper into the forbidding social stratum than that. Stahma needed out, and she took the easiest path. So she had to finger someone in a bath tub. Who hasn't done that.

Really? It's a TV show dude.

LOLLICOPTER.

(Edit: Actually laughing my *** off at this thread). First time LMAO has applied on the interwebs.

Bakku
12-07-2013, 09:51 PM
No, really. How many times have I explained how much I love (that used to say v ag in al) intercourse to you? (I'm male).

Exactly. Just suck what you want, and shush!

You, yourself may not flaunt your heterosexuality but I am sure you're aware that MANY straight guys have a tendency to be very loud, oftentimes crude about how much they love breasts and other parts of the female anatomy. There's nothing crude about saying you're gay, if you're jumping from "gay" (which describes much much more than sex) to what that implies in between the sheets then-... I don't know what to say.

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 09:54 PM
You, yourself may not flaunt your heterosexuality but I am sure you're aware that MANY straight guys have a tendency to be very loud, oftentimes crude about how much they love breasts and other parts of the female anatomy. There's nothing crude about saying you're gay, if you're jumping from "gay" (which describes much much more than sex) to what that implies in between the sheets then-... I don't know what to say.

(Oh, God. I love you).

Yes. the straight people that tend to do that are known as d o u c h ebags. So you are telling me that every transplanet person that swings their vapor dong in my face is a d o u c h ebag? Ok. I'll buy that.

LMA.......OH!

Bakku
12-07-2013, 09:54 PM
As for Stahma....she was furthering Stahma's interests. I didn't look deeper into the forbidding social stratum than that. Stahma needed out, and she took the easiest path. So she had to finger someone in a bath tub. Who hasn't done that.

Really? It's a TV show dude.

LOLLICOPTER.

(Edit: Actually laughing my *** off at this thread). First time LMAO has applied on the interwebs.

Glad you're enjoying yourself?

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 09:56 PM
Glad you're enjoying yourself?

Thank you.

cypheon
12-07-2013, 09:57 PM
You, yourself may not flaunt your heterosexuality but I am sure you're aware that MANY straight guys have a tendency to be very loud, oftentimes crude about how much they love breasts and other parts of the female anatomy. There's nothing crude about saying you're gay, if you're jumping from "gay" (which describes much much more than sex) to what that implies in between the sheets then-... I don't know what to say.

on the issue of flaunting......... i don't wanna hear it, what with all the free boob thrown at gay guys every where, with the disclaimer "he's gay, it doesn't do anything for him".

i've heard the giggles that occur during such things! he definitely gets something out of it!

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 10:05 PM
Ok. I'm actually crying right now it's so funny.

Kind of like that day you went to work. Started stocking the chicken soups in the cardboard cutouts like your boss wanted. Some dude you work with comes up and he's like "hey man.....you know I totally love weeners. Why aren't you supportive?

You say....shut up and stock the cans. Then giggle later with your friends over beers and bowls.

DanteYoda
12-07-2013, 10:06 PM
No, really. How many times have I explained how much I love (that used to say v ag in al) intercourse to you? (I'm male).

Exactly. Just suck what you want, and shush!
My point exactly, you never read what i said or chose to ignore it, which is basically the problem these people face every waking day, i understand this is off topic so i'll break away now, but yeah the Defiance show didn't help with these episodes imo.

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 10:12 PM
Comparing 'legally blind' people to gays is called a false equivalency, which is one of many logical fallacies used by someone who either doesn't have a grasp of the issue they're discussing, or are deliberately attempting to distort it.

'Legally blind' people (such as myself, who has the worst dioptre rating two optometrists have ever encountered) do not suffer random acts of violence for being blind, or routinely get discriminated against by policy. Attempting to compare the two is as absurd as requesting that people remain politely silent while they still suffer discrimination.

It's a modern day spin on the old 'loud uppity women / Jews / Blacks would be better off keeping quiet' that conservatives use as a form of passive resistance to progression, and it has absolute zero empirical truth value. If you find yourself getting irritated over progressive activism, you should take a long, reflective look within yourself. Instead of asking, 'why do they care so much' you should be asking 'why do *you* care that *they* care so much?'

Of course, the answer is going to require honesty that may not be possible.

Lillith, I never knew you were blind. You've kicked my *** in many parts of this game. But......see? I never knew it. There ain't no reason I need to know some dude here likes licking weeners.

It does nothing for my game.

And, honestly....I'd rather have to lick weeners than be legally blind....so you have my compassion. People are just too damn noisy these days. Save the personal crap for your friends. Leave it off the interwebs. IMO.

Umfafa
12-07-2013, 10:16 PM
My point exactly, you never read what i said or chose to ignore it, which is basically the problem these people face every waking day, i understand this is off topic so i'll break away now, but yeah the Defiance show didn't help with these episodes imo.

I'm not upset, nor attacking you. You wanted a conversation and I'm giving you one.

I've read what you wrote. Honestly I don't see it as a problem. Life is not a musical. You shouldn't be twirling down the middle of main street singing a ditty. Just do what you want to do, and if you feel so guilty about it that you need approval from others....well, then....stop.

Bakku
12-07-2013, 10:33 PM
And with that, I'd officially like to have this locked. As I already said, I don't know what I was thinking bringing this to the forums.

DanteYoda
12-07-2013, 10:42 PM
I'm not upset, nor attacking you. You wanted a conversation and I'm giving you one.

I've read what you wrote. Honestly I don't see it as a problem. Life is not a musical. You shouldn't be twirling down the middle of main street singing a ditty. Just do what you want to do, and if you feel so guilty about it that you need approval from others....well, then....stop.

I am not L or B or G or T i just feel others should be given equal rights as the rest of us, no matter who they are, quiet noisy or whatever. they are still human beings and should be treated as such.

Your wiener talk is degrading as well.

ironcladtrash
12-07-2013, 10:51 PM
And with that, I'd officially like to have this locked. As I already said, I don't know what I was thinking bringing this to the forums.

I think you're being overly sensitive. Why is it a problem that some one truly doesn't care? In the same sense that I don't care if your hair is black or brown. If you think that is a bad analogy that is exactly how I feel I dont give **** and why does it even matter? So why is it made an issue. This show and people are not discriminating or promoting hate. I would have a huge problem with that if they were. To me it just looks your trying to find a problem when there isn't one. I would like to think that most people are aware enough that stuff like sexualtiy isn't an issue in society anymore. I realize there are still a lot of hateful people like the Westboro Baptist Church, but they are becoming the minority.

If it happened in the show organically that would be fine by me too. But it honestly seems like a lot of the times it gets shoehorned in to shows or books just to be PC. I honestly don't see why it's even an issue. They aren't bringing up animal cruelty in the show and that doesn't bother me either.