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Tekrunner
12-19-2013, 09:49 AM
For the few theory crafters still around (I'm looking at you, Nilx and mav), here's the formula used to determine the damage of a weapon. It wasn't especially hard to figure out, it just required spending a little time on it.

Damage = round(base damage * rarity bonus * skill bonus * mod bonus * bonus damage)

The only slightly tricky part is the rarity bonus:
Green: 1.03
Blue: 1.06
Purple: 1.10
Orange: 1.15

So, for example, for a blue heavy carbine with a damage barrel and a damage bonus roll, at skill level 20:
Damage = round(440 * 1.06 * 1.05 * 1.07 * 1.05) = 550

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/884127922027955829/11FD5E41B01FE6C16CC9BFBC666A337C01877B85/

I've tested a dozen weapons of various types with different combinations of bonuses and mods, and the formula always gave the right number. Please tell me if you find a contradicting result.

alienstookmybeer
12-19-2013, 09:53 AM
Lol, Mav's been on top of the rarity bonus ever since the post-patch weapons were introduced.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?99055-Mav-s-Guide-to-Weapon-Bonus-Rolls-and-More&p=918329&viewfull=1#post918329




Weapon Damage Related to Rarity

After Patch 1.105, all weapons in the game, new ones and existing, recieve a Damage increase based on their rarity. Higher the rarity, higher the Damage.

Green weapons - 3% Damage increase
Blue weapons - 6% Damage increase
Purple weapons - 10% Damage increase
Orange weapons - 15% Damage increase

* - BMGs do not get a Damage increase with rarity

Gascan
12-19-2013, 11:06 AM
Great, thanks for this one!

Tekrunner
12-19-2013, 11:07 AM
Heh, totally missed that. Let's just say that my post was a reminder then.

bigguy
12-19-2013, 11:16 AM
hey is that a casti springer next to your blue heavy?

alienstookmybeer
12-19-2013, 11:16 AM
Always good to see you two on the same page!

Hey, here's something you may know that I haven't tested yet. When the weapon data card rounds crit multiplier, does that apply to the damage done in game? (i.e. You mod a weapon so that it'd calculate to 1.75 crit multiplier and the data card rounds to show 1.8.. do you get the extra 5% damage on crit hits from rounding?)

maverick07
12-19-2013, 12:01 PM
We finally have it! Kudos to you Tek :D. I was trying to figure this out again with F8ng last night. I thought that some Detonators didn't receive a 20% DMG increase.

And now I know I was right with that. My OJ Auto and Rebound Lobbers, with a blue DMG Barrel (1.07) and mastery DMG roll (1.05), and level 20 on skills are only getting 1085 DMG. This (800 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.07 * 1.05) is how I got the 1085. I believe the Crash Boomer was another one that didn't recieve the DMG buff as well.


Always good to see you two on the same page!

Hey, here's something you may know that I haven't tested yet. When the weapon data card rounds crit multiplier, does that apply to the damage done in game? (i.e. You mod a weapon so that it'd calculate to 1.75 crit multiplier and the data card rounds to show 1.8.. do you get the extra 5% damage on crit hits from rounding?)

I don't think you get the extra from rounding. My Assassin VBI AR with just one 1.25 Crit Roll and Assassin mods wasn't enough to get to 2.1 Crit on the card but I did notice a difference in the numbers. Even though Assassin mods didn't take it from 2.0 to 2.1. Also noticed barely higher crits with my SAW when I was leveling my EU character's LMGs, when I got a 2% bonus, the card still said 1.5.

And man I want that orange Casti Springer now :) didn't know the OJ roll was Fire Rate! Still a lot of those oranges I wanna get my hands on.

Mike Chone
12-19-2013, 12:47 PM
This seems the perfect thread to ask... To any whose been crunching numbers... Crit multipliers, are they applied to the weapon's base damage? Or overall modded damage from other bonuses? It seems the crit multipliers went down somehow -- though the stats look the same, the actual crits seem to be a bit weaker on weapons that had no change with the weapon re-balance.

Tekrunner
12-19-2013, 12:57 PM
And now I know I was right with that. My OJ Auto and Rebound Lobbers, with a blue DMG Barrel (1.07) and mastery DMG roll (1.05), and level 20 on skills are only getting 1085 DMG. This (800 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.07 * 1.05) is how I got the 1085. I believe the Crash Boomer was another one that didn't recieve the DMG buff as well.

That's pretty surprising, given how the Votan grenade launchers were already weaker than the human ones. Guess that was probably an oversight.


And man I want that orange Casti Springer now :) didn't know the OJ roll was Fire Rate! Still a lot of those oranges I wanna get my hands on.

Yeah, I was psyched when I got that this afternoon. The synergy and mastery roll are less than ideal, but it's still a really great weapon for the Warmaster's armor. I still haven't decided whether to put a falloff or a damage barrel on it.

alienstookmybeer
12-19-2013, 01:37 PM
I don't think you get the extra from rounding. My Assassin VBI AR with just one 1.25 Crit Roll and Assassin mods wasn't enough to get to 2.1 Crit on the card but I did notice a difference in the numbers. Even though Assassin mods didn't take it from 2.0 to 2.1. Also noticed barely higher crits with my SAW when I was leveling my EU character's LMGs, when I got a 2% bonus, the card still said 1.5.



Thanks Mav! Sounds like there's no reason to ever worry about rounding when it comes to mods then, with the exception of mag size.

WhiteF8ng
12-19-2013, 09:43 PM
For the few theory crafters still around (I'm looking at you, Nilx and mav), here's the formula used to determine the damage of a weapon. It wasn't especially hard to figure out, it just required spending a little time on it.

Damage = round(base damage * rarity bonus * skill bonus * mod bonus * bonus damage)

The only slightly tricky part is the rarity bonus:
Green: 1.03
Blue: 1.06
Purple: 1.10
Orange: 1.15

So, for example, for a blue heavy carbine with a damage barrel and a damage bonus roll, at skill level 20:
Damage = round(440 * 1.06 * 1.05 * 1.07 * 1.05) = 550

I've tested a dozen weapons of various types with different combinations of bonuses and mods, and the formula always gave the right number. Please tell me if you find a contradicting result.

Ah ****...multi-****ing-plicative...lol The rarity bonus is treated like a standard bonus and applied at the same time and not before. That's what I was doing wrong. Good stuff Tek.

SO

Card Damage = Round (base damage * rarity dmg bonus * dmg bonus roll * Dmg mod * skill dmg bonus)

In case anyone was wondering where the percentages came from. Well done again Tek.

Nilxain
12-21-2013, 11:00 AM
I don't think you get the extra from rounding. My Assassin VBI AR with just one 1.25 Crit Roll and Assassin mods wasn't enough to get to 2.1 Crit on the card but I did notice a difference in the numbers. Even though Assassin mods didn't take it from 2.0 to 2.1. Also noticed barely higher crits with my SAW when I was leveling my EU character's LMGs, when I got a 2% bonus, the card still said 1.5.


Sorry if I'm late coming in, I was looking for something else and stumbled across this. I'm still a bit groggy, so forgive me if I'm not understanding the question, but rounding does occur. With your weapon the number comes out to 2.01 which rounds to 2.0, had it been 2.05 it would have rounded to 2.1. Again, forgive me if I'm completely lost in the conversation - brb coffee lmao.

maverick07
12-21-2013, 12:37 PM
Sorry if I'm late coming in, I was looking for something else and stumbled across this. I'm still a bit groggy, so forgive me if I'm not understanding the question, but rounding does occur. With your weapon the number comes out to 2.01 which rounds to 2.0, had it been 2.05 it would have rounded to 2.1. Again, forgive me if I'm completely lost in the conversation - brb coffee lmao.

Yeah man that part I knew :). But for the numbers you are actually getting on critical hits, those end up being the actual numbers, not rounded to the tenth like the card.

Nilxain
12-21-2013, 01:15 PM
Yeah man that part I knew :). But for the numbers you are actually getting on critical hits, those end up being the actual numbers, not rounded to the tenth like the card.

Oh, I was misunderstanding the topic - I had a feeling I was lol.

Tekrunner
12-23-2013, 08:57 AM
So, I've been trying to determine the base stats of DLC weapons, but this is proving difficult, as I do not know the exact formulas for all stats.

For weapons with multiplicative bonuses, magazine size appears to be given by:
Total mag = base mag * (1 + mod bonus + white bonus + green bonus + blue bonus + orange bonus + mastery bonus)

For example, a Castithan Springer with a high cap mag II has:
60 * (1 + 0.40 + 0.10 + 0.25) = 105 bullets

http://i.imgur.com/YQS5oGD.jpg

I wasn't actually able to test how a mag mastery bonus factors in exactly, but I'm assuming that it's the same as other bonus rolls. This formula is actually fairly surprising to me. I was expecting everything to be multiplicative, like in the damage formula.

So now, the question is: what are the formulas for reload, fire rate, crit multiplier, accuracy and bloom / recoil? I believe that reload uses an additive formula (though are we sure that everything is added? Mods, bonus rolls and skill bonus?). And I guess that there aren't many possibilities for accuracy, since only mods give multiplicative bonuses: total accuracy = base accuracy * multiplicative mod bonus - flat bonuses.

EDIT: just remembered about mag and accuracy bonuses form synergies. Right now I have no idea if they're multiplicative or additive...

maverick07
12-23-2013, 01:43 PM
So, I've been trying to determine the base stats of DLC weapons, but this is proving difficult, as I do not know the exact formulas for all stats.

For weapons with multiplicative bonuses, magazine size appears to be given by:
Total mag = base mag * (1 + mod bonus + white bonus + green bonus + blue bonus + orange bonus + mastery bonus)

For example, a Castithan Springer with a high cap mag II has:
60 * (1 + 0.40 + 0.10 + 0.25) = 105 bullets

http://i.imgur.com/YQS5oGD.jpg

I wasn't actually able to test how a mag mastery bonus factors in exactly, but I'm assuming that it's the same as other bonus rolls. This formula is actually fairly surprising to me. I was expecting everything to be multiplicative, like in the damage formula.

So now, the question is: what are the formulas for reload, fire rate, crit multiplier, accuracy and bloom / recoil? I believe that reload uses an additive formula (though are we sure that everything is added? Mods, bonus rolls and skill bonus?). And I guess that there aren't many possibilities for accuracy, since only mods give multiplicative bonuses: total accuracy = base accuracy * multiplicative mod bonus - flat bonuses.

EDIT: just remembered about mag and accuracy bonuses form synergies. Right now I have no idea if they're multiplicative or additive...

I'm pretty sure the synergies and masteries are additive as well. I know that reload was when I added up all the reload rolls on a FRC Assault Carbine I have and crit multi also works the same way.

Fire rate I am not sure on. I gave a friend a Strain Reducer IV to put on his orange Canker, and I was doing the math thinking it would get to 9.9 fire rate, but he got 10.0 :). My math may have been wrong though! For accuracy and recoil I think that anything with a percent goes off the base acc or recoil. It's not multiplicative because you can add a recoil mod and then get negative recoil.