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View Full Version : "Crit mult to out of combat targets" roll: RESERVE IT TO SNIPERS ONLY!!!



B_Draco
01-12-2014, 06:34 PM
How can you get extra crit mult to out of combat targets on say an LMG? Once that enemy is aware of you and or is a red dot on your radar, the crit mult to out of combat targets is useless... Now if it was reserved to snipers only no problem, but I've only ever seen maybe 5 or 6 snipers in the time I've played(since April) with that roll... Otherwise it's so damn common on ARs, LMGs, SMGs, andhell even infectors...

Why not reserve this roll to snipers only? It's no good on much of any other weapon type...

rebtattoo
01-12-2014, 07:03 PM
Out of combat also means when they are stunned or dropped to a knee, like the volge. After the monarch charges, when he raises his arse in the air, he Iis considered out of combat.

Nefarious
01-12-2014, 07:52 PM
What about being cloaked and sneaking up on a dude and scoring a up and close crit shot?

Having the Ambush Perk being able to work with any gun is doing no harm. And it doesn't prevent snipers from using it. So I don't see the point. Although imo its best used in Sniper builds.

crasher
01-12-2014, 07:54 PM
Out of combat also means when they are stunned or dropped to a knee, like the volge. After the monarch charges, when he raises his arse in the air, he Iis considered out of combat.
As well as the crystal, or so I'm told.

What was unclear to me and several people I spoke to was whether 'Out of combat' & 'Not in combat' (like the predator perk) specifically meant, or could also include:



Not in a fight at all
Not in a fight with you
Temporarily removed from combat, as in wounded/stunned/etc.

The first could be the crystal.
The second could mean the badguy was busy shooting at someone else.
The third is clearly spelled out in rebtattoo's example.


Words mean stuff, yeah, I know, but many times stuff is happening in the game that The Dev descriptions don't cover, or cover incompletely/incorrectly. In those cases - the words do not mean what you think they mean.
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/kaos_crasher/inigo-montoya_that-word.jpg

Market
01-13-2014, 10:02 AM
After picking up an orange Springer yesterday (fire nano and Rolling Thunder syn), I was pretty happy. Until mastering it revealed a 12% Crit Mult to out-of-combat targets.

I just tested out a flash grenade on some different enemies to see if this caused them to be "out-of-combat" and it did nothing to increase the damage of the Springer. I'm not sure if flash grenades were intended to take targets out of combat, but if they were, it's not working.

I'm inclined to agree with the OP on this one. There are too many unfavorable rolls/mods/synergies out there, making it feel like it's forcing me to look for one or two specific stats on certain weapons.

When I say unfavorable, I mean: the mastery I have on this Springer, accuracy rolls on sniper rifles, recoil rolls on sawed-off shotguns, Rolling Thunder Synergies on detonators or shotguns, Cannoneer Synergies on bolt-action sniper rifles, Run-n-Gun BMG's, Assassin ground pounders/cluster-type RL's, etc etc

I understand (and agree) that not every single weapon we get should be "perfect". However, breaking down a weapon like the Springer because it has a far less than favorable roll just hurts. I think the weapon/roll/synergy combination should always be useful and make the weapon better. However, many of the combinations I find leave me thinking "whaaaa???" lol

crasher
01-13-2014, 12:07 PM
After picking up an orange Springer yesterday ...

[you already read all this stuff in the post above.]

I understand (and agree) that not every single weapon we get should be "perfect". However, breaking down a weapon like the Springer because it has a far less than favorable roll just hurts. I think the weapon/roll/synergy combination should always be useful and make the weapon better. However, many of the combinations I find leave me thinking "whaaaa???" lol
Way too many syns/nanos making way way too many possible combinations that not only don't make useful sense, but are in there just to fill the inventory with litter that is mostly window dressing.

Bonehead
01-13-2014, 12:32 PM
Way too many syns/nanos making way way too many possible combinations that not only don't make useful sense, but are in there just to fill the inventory with litter that is mostly window dressing.

Yes. The weapon systems in this game had a great deal of potential. The execution of said systems was convoluted, cumbersome, clumsy, and sometimes stupid. Too many pointless rolls being combined with weapons that have no use for said rolls and 1.05 shotgun mag buffs still being sold at bug n chug.

Perhaps the grenade changes were really to bring the only simple well thought combat mechanic into line with all the other overly complicated systems.

I wonder if the devs that still work on this game (all two of them) lie about what game they work on?
Like at a bar...
"Oh you work for Trion? What game are you working on?"

"Oh yea.. ummm Trove... yea that's it...I'm working on Trove".

Albion
01-13-2014, 02:10 PM
but I've only ever seen maybe 5 or 6 snipers in the time I've played(since April) with that roll...

I have an orange splitshot with this roll, and a friend has one also. I'm pretty sure I've had other snipers with it in the past as well. Point is, it's not as rare as you think it is.

Having said that, there are many explanations of what is "out of combat" and what is not. I don't think anyone knows the answer, so it would be nice to have a dev chime in and satisfy a lot of peoples curiosity. I won't hold my breath though.

Rock Lobsta
01-13-2014, 02:21 PM
Yea...since theres no 100% definitive answer to this question, I think that people should stop trying to raise the value of their garbage guns, by saying that this buff increases damage done to the warmaster during the burn Phase. Every few weeks, another word gets over used, and people try to make a killing when they sell items.

"Personal guns " was a phase used not too long ago, now people are using the word "Unicorn" to sell their crap....

Nefarious
01-13-2014, 03:37 PM
I'm inclined to agree with the OP on this one. There are too many unfavorable rolls/mods/synergies out there, making it feel like it's forcing me to look for one or two specific stats on certain weapons.


I know the feeling on getting crappy bonus on a gun that has perfect rolls and synergy to go along with it. But that's part of the fun. Not every gun can be made to have favorable rolls and bonus.

7 new synergies are making there way into 7th Legion so maybe those two specific stats on certain weapons might just widen the selection for a lot of weapons.

rebtattoo
01-13-2014, 04:21 PM
I do know I see the difference when using one against volge when they "go down". My points increase noticeably.

Market
01-13-2014, 04:45 PM
I know the feeling on getting crappy bonus on a gun that has perfect rolls and synergy to go along with it. But that's part of the fun. Not every gun can be made to have favorable rolls and bonus.

7 new synergies are making there way into 7th Legion so maybe those two specific stats on certain weapons might just widen the selection for a lot of weapons.

Hopefully those 7 new Synergies will do just that!

As far as the rest of it goes, I hope I'm not giving the idea that I think every gun should should have perfect rolls. (By your response, I'm thinking you didn't take it that way) I would, however, like to see them all have stats that benefit said weapon. They don't need to be superior. To take a throwback stat from shotguns, for example, having the 1.05 Mag rolls on them were just insulting. Things like Accuracy rolls shouldn't be showing up on Sniper Rifles as it adds nothing to the gun other than another line in the stats.

There's a tightrope to be walked here, I assure you I understand this. My point in it all is that if a weapon is not better than what the holder is currently using, it will be broken down or sold anyway. I agree that the hunt for a "better" weapon is indeed part of the fun, but (for me, at least) that fun is dashed a bit when I find a sawed-off shotgun with three recoil rolls or a bolt-action sniper with an increased fire rate.

Another good way to explain what I mean would be this... Opening a birthday present and finding thermal socks when you live in Florida is one thing compared to opening a birthday present containing a comb when you're bald. (I'm almost bald, I can make that joke... lol)

Hope it all makes sense and I don't look like I'm asking for constant perfection out of drops. Just a bit more sense from them, is all.

:)

Amack
01-13-2014, 05:00 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?139475-Rolls-Overhaul-Thread&highlight=Rolls+Thread

Sad... sad indeed.

Nilxain if you see this, I hope you are doing good.

Market
01-13-2014, 05:05 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?139475-Rolls-Overhaul-Thread&highlight=Rolls+Thread

Sad... sad indeed.

Nilxain if you see this, I hope you are doing good.

I'd forgotten about that thread. Nilxain doesn't get the proper credit for the efforts he makes.

Great stuff there!