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View Full Version : Charge Blade attacks don't count as melee attacks for various perks



Spindle
01-13-2014, 04:41 PM
I've been experimenting with the charge blade and have noticed the following things regarding perk interaction.

The jump attack aoe and the charge attack don't count as melee, and in certain cases the basic swing doesn't either. The melee system was obviously designed without charge blades in mind and is badly flawed because of it. There is also the R3 melee jab which due to its incredibly low damage isnt worth looking at.

So here is the breakdown of what works and how.

Damage perks/modifiers

Brawler stim: Adds damage to all three attacks
Damage spike: Adds damage to all three attacks

Sonic strike: Adds damage to all three attacks
Overcharge: Adds damage to all three attacks
Shadowed Strike: Adds damage to L1 swing, does not for AOE jump or charge attack
Sucker Punch: Adds damage to all three attacks
Intimidation: No effect on all three attacks
Deadly Cascade has no effect on jump attack aoe if you were wondering.
Follow-Through: Works if critical is done with non sword weapons
Nothing to Lose: Works for L1, charge hit but not jump aoe.

Support Perks

Detachment: Works on all three attacks
Aggressive defense: Works on all three attacks
Juggernaut: Definitely works for L1, needs further testing
Hyperactive: Works with all three attacks
Execution: Works on all three, best results with jump attack vs humanoids
Implosion: No way to test
Quickening: Definitely works for L1, needs further testing


Charge Blades and Criticals:
The critical system is less straight forward for charge blades than other weapons. Aiming surely has something to do with it as i rarely get criticals doing L1 strikes on humanoids and never on insects or robots. Jump aoe kills will always be criticals when used to finish off Dark Matter, against bugs it only seems to crit against the Monarchs and against scrappers I don't ever see crits.

I'm out of cash for respecs right now so if I'm wrong anywhere or you have something to add feel free to reply.

!!Updated

Amack
01-13-2014, 04:46 PM
We need more like this.

I know they are adding another sword for DLC3. Trick did mention changes to the melee system. With a bit of luck, he was hopefully referring to what you are talking about.

Atticus Batman
01-13-2014, 04:51 PM
Seeing as I never bothered getting a charge blade, I can't add to your observations. I am appreciative that you took the time to test it though. Hopefully with the coming of more blades they improve the system for them, and include existing blades in that fix. We do not need more "Are pre-patch weapons now garbage?" issues.

Nashtalia
01-13-2014, 07:32 PM
i am convinced that there are no blades in the T4 anymore 3: been hitting up T4 boxes for a good couple amounts during this week and no luck. yup


es no buena

DanteYoda
01-13-2014, 07:40 PM
Great post handy for Charged blade wielders, i just got my legendary one but it seems far too gimmicky and death causing for serious play.

Nefarious
01-13-2014, 07:40 PM
When I played around with Intimidation with charge sword I swore it worked on basic enemies but not on elites or higher.

Skybane
01-13-2014, 08:16 PM
i am convinced that there are no blades in the T4 anymore 3: been hitting up T4 boxes for a good couple amounts during this week and no luck. yup


es no buena

so, even if you haven't bought or earned a blade, can you still get one from the lockboxes if you have the season pass DLC..?? i personally haven't done all the arenas in Diablo Lighthouse so just asking if they drop either way or if you have to already own one-- gracias :)

Nashtalia
01-13-2014, 08:50 PM
so, even if you haven't bought or earned a blade, can you still get one from the lockboxes if you have the season pass DLC..?? i personally haven't done all the arenas in Diablo Lighthouse so just asking if they drop either way or if you have to already own one-- gracias :)

i still have not earned the blade from the arena, hence just taking my chance with the T4 and so far i've tried chance with the T4, no dice 3:

Amack
01-13-2014, 08:51 PM
es no buena

I think we have the title of my next thread... thanks Nash!

WhiteF8ng
01-13-2014, 10:56 PM
I've been experimenting with the charge blade and have noticed the following things regarding perk interaction.

The jump attack aoe and the charge attack don't count as melee, and in certain cases the basic swing doesn't either. The melee system was obviously designed without charge blades in mind and is badly flawed because of it. There is also the R3 melee jab which due to its incredibly low damage isnt worth looking at.

So here is the breakdown of what works and how.

Damage perks/modifiers

Brawler stim: Adds damage to all three attacks
Damage spike: Adds damage to all three attacks

Sonic strike: Adds damage to L1 swing, does not for AOE jump or charge attack
Overcharge: Adds damage to all three attacks
Shadowed Strike: Adds damage to L1 swing, does not for AOE jump or charge attack
Sucker Punch: Adds damage to all three attacks
Intimidation: No effect on all three attacks
Deadly Cascade has no effect on jump attack aoe if you were wondering.
Follow-Through: No effect on all three attacks. Not even the R3 jab.
Nothing to Lose: Works for L1, needs further testing

Support Perks

Detachment: Works on all three attacks
Aggressive defense: Works on all three attacks
Juggernaut: Definitely works for L1, needs further testing
Hyperactive: Works with L1 swing, does not for AOE jump or charge attack
Execution: Works on all three, best results with jump attack vs humanoids
Implosion: No way to test
Quickening: Definitely works for L1, needs further testing


Charge Blades and Criticals:
The critical system is less straight forward for charge blades than other weapons. Aiming surely has something to do with it as i rarely get criticals doing L1 strikes on humanoids and never on insects or robots. Jump aoe kills will always be criticals when used to finish off Dark Matter, against bugs it only seems to crit against the Monarchs and against scrappers I don't ever see crits.

I'm out of cash for respecs right now so if I'm wrong anywhere or you have something to add feel free to reply.


Charge Blade works with Follow-through, Intimidation, Sonic Strike, Nothing to Lose (minus AOE attack), Juggernaut, Aggressive Defense and Hyperactive as far as melee perks go. The rest seems correct.

Spindle
01-14-2014, 10:02 AM
Charge Blade works with Follow-through, Intimidation, Sonic Strike, Nothing to Lose (minus AOE attack), Juggernaut, Aggressive Defense and Hyperactive as far as melee perks go. The rest seems correct.

What were your steps? With Follow through I'd get a critical kill and my next hit would get no damage increase for all possible attacks. were you getting critical kills with a gun and switching to sword? Hyperactive clearly doesn't work for anything but the main swing, neither does sonic strike increase jump damage. I've never seen intimidation work, stunning enemies with flash nades and hitting them while stunned yields no increase for any attack. I'm using the orange quest blade with a red mod.

Jet1337
01-14-2014, 10:08 AM
The charge blade was the **** before they fixed the glitch.

WhiteF8ng
01-15-2014, 04:09 AM
What were your steps? With Follow through I'd get a critical kill and my next hit would get no damage increase for all possible attacks. were you getting critical kills with a gun and switching to sword? Hyperactive clearly doesn't work for anything but the main swing, neither does sonic strike increase jump damage. I've never seen intimidation work, stunning enemies with flash nades and hitting them while stunned yields no increase for any attack. I'm using the orange quest blade with a red mod.
Sure here ya go...

Standard Shanjiyo Blade stats are:

Light = 1400
Charge =3938
AOE (Jump DMG) = 2625


Yes done by crit killing with a gun then switching to the blade. Getting a crit kill with the blade is hard enough without doing the AOE attack which won't count for Follow-through.
Charge Blades can't invoke certain perks with their special attacks. I'm assuming this is in terms of balance because if each light attack invoked Intimidation well...do I really have to say it? In order to activate it on your own just do the normal melee (R3 on PS3) then a sword attack. Easy Enough.

Sonic Strike Damage Results: Shanjifyo Blade

Charge = 6300
Light = Did not test. Wasn't challenged.
AOE (Jump attack) = 4200

Idk why your results are different tbh.

Intimidation Damage Results: Shanjifyo Blade

Charge = Not possible with my current weapons on 2nd char. Will perform test on main char.
Light = 2450
AOE = 4594

Hyperactive Speed Results: Shanjifyo Blade

Point A to Point B : 111m distance marker (weird # I know, but it served it's purpose)

Basically here I put a waypoint 111m away (with enemies at the place I start from) and ran to it. Timed myself running towards the point I only did a couple passes on these test but the results from just one will suffice. Then, I kill an enemy using one of the attacks and run to the waypoint. After 5 secs I stop and look to see how many meters I have left to the waypoint. Subtract that number from the total distance and voila...

Enemy killed with Light Attack: ~54m traveled from point A to B in 5 secs
Enemy killed with AOE: ~54m traveled from point A to B in 5 secs
No enemy killed(A.K.A. Regular Running): ~23m traveled from point A to B in 5 secs

Make sense?

Electrocution and flash nades do NOT activate Intimidation. They never have.

Tekrunner
01-15-2014, 06:10 AM
So Intimidation doesn't trigger from staggering an enemy with the light attack? I'm pretty sure that this used to work pre-DLC 2.

DSW
01-15-2014, 09:39 AM
i am convinced that there are no blades in the T4 anymore 3: been hitting up T4 boxes for a good couple amounts during this week and no luck. yup



i've got two of them from T4. but i completed the DLC2 storyline.

Nashtalia
01-15-2014, 09:52 AM
i've got two of them from T4. but i completed the DLC2 storyline.

Update: i finally gotten enough reputation points for the Castithan vendor to buy blade, this was yesterday.

:3

Great Success

WhiteF8ng
01-15-2014, 10:05 PM
So Intimidation doesn't trigger from staggering an enemy with the light attack? I'm pretty sure that this used to work pre-DLC 2.

Still kinda sorta works. You'd have to intentionally delay between your quick attacks so you can catch the tail end of the stagger animation. IF you're into strategically using a charge blade that is...

Spindle
01-15-2014, 10:26 PM
Thanks for that detailed response whitef8ng. I got the impression shock from flash nades counted as a stun from somewhere on the forum, clearly some bad information. So sonic strike increases jump damage by a little under 10%? that's a bit odd.

WhiteF8ng
01-15-2014, 11:40 PM
Thanks for that detailed response whitef8ng. I got the impression shock from flash nades counted as a stun from somewhere on the forum, clearly some bad information. So sonic strike increases jump damage by a little under 10%? that's a bit odd.

Yeah, I tried to tell people back then that it didn't too but they insisted so I let it be. Sonic Strike gave a 60% increase. 2625 * 1.60 = 4200.

JEMINAI
01-16-2014, 12:12 AM
hmm i was convinced intimidation was an effective perk.. you cant knock ppl down in pvp with weps tho i think.
but yeah, im prepared to believe a number of things arent doing what they are intended to do.