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View Full Version : When is RNG 'NOT' RNG?



crasher
01-28-2014, 07:03 AM
I posted this as a response in another thread:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?146932-Stop-giving-me-Bolt-Action-Repeaters!

Mine was response #62, and I was responding to DSW.

And it hit me that it might be something to call attention to separately.
Let me know what you think?
Thanks.
---------------------------------------------------------


that part was only about me, shoogli & kasper, not entire problem. sorry if that wasn't clear enough.
This one is a little harder, but try this one out:

Go to the faction vendors, like TNTW or Soleptor at The Crater with several friends.
It helps if you have several 'toons on an account and start this at lower EGO so you can watch the progression.

Make note of weapons like the purple heavy carbine and purple SAW at TNTW, both with 'Prepared' syn, and the purple 'Scavenger' syn SMG at Soleptor.

If you check back every so often, and compare notes - You'll see that you, your alt 'toons, and your friends will see the bio nano at TNTW and the flame nano at Soleptor appear at different EGO level numbers for the different players and 'toons.

I've had it appear at E-2K for some of my 'toons, not until about E-3K for others, and several friends who either didn't see it until over E-4K, or never saw nano on them at all.

That leads me to believe that RNG either has some randomly borked persistence, or is randomly borked within servers, too.

Think about the implications of how one player's 'toon might see a faction weapon with nano at E-2K, while another player's 'toon might never see that faction weapon with nano ever.

That isn't standard RNG. Unless you want to go down the road that says that some players are RNGd into a category that they persistently carry for the rest of the game, separate from other player's??

If this IS so, it would explain why SOME players claim to NEVER get oranges, while other players FREQUENTLY get oranges, no?

Bentu
01-28-2014, 07:34 AM
I know it's not random by the amount of shotties I get, but at least they're ojs right lol.

FallenDevil86
01-28-2014, 07:37 AM
Need more sacrifice to the RNG god...a virgin maybe? :p

Bentu
01-28-2014, 07:40 AM
Need more sacrifice to the RNG god...a virgin maybe? :p

You offering then?

Zack Fair
01-28-2014, 07:42 AM
My friend pulled 7 legendarys last night. She was happy,

SEVEN, out of six boxes (An ARK shield included, 2 SAWS and a VBI AR???)

I pulled 5 boxes, and nothing? (Must be on box 30 by now with nothing) lol makes no sense.

FallenDevil86
01-28-2014, 07:50 AM
You offering then?

I have...it rejects me :p


My friend pulled 7 legendarys last night. She was happy,

SEVEN, out of six boxes (An ARK shield included, 2 SAWS and a VBI AR???)

I pulled 5 boxes, and nothing? (Must be on box 30 by now with nothing) lol makes no sense.

Wow...she's a virgin? RNG god likes her a lot :p

Shoogli
01-28-2014, 07:51 AM
I know it's not random by the amount of shotties I get, but at least they're ojs right lol.

Hi :) what does OJ mean please ?
I'm new player and seen this several time.

N3gativeCr33p
01-28-2014, 08:00 AM
Hi :) what does OJ mean please ?
I'm new player and seen this several time.

OJ = orange juice... as in, an orange weapon/shield/grenade.

Zugo
01-28-2014, 08:00 AM
Pulled 2 OJ's last night using Bentu's new super secret method.

VBI AR
Cluster Grenades

Zack Fair
01-28-2014, 08:02 AM
Pulled 2 OJ's last night using Bentu's new super secret method.

VBI AR
Cluster Grenades

All methods have proven useless against RNG

Zugo
01-28-2014, 08:10 AM
All methods have proven useless against RNG

EXCEPT for the new Bentu method. RNG has met it's match.

N3gativeCr33p
01-28-2014, 08:11 AM
EXCEPT for the new Bentu method. RNG has met it's match.

Can't wait to hear about this Bentu method that you've mentioned...

Zugo
01-28-2014, 08:20 AM
Can't wait to hear about this Bentu method that you've mentioned...

Well, Chevota was skeptical as always. I told him he wouldn't get a OJ from the box he was looking at and sure enough he didn't.
Both tier4 boxes I bought last night had OJ's in them so I'm pretty sure Bentu is some kind of djinn or something, maybe UK voodoo?

N3gativeCr33p
01-28-2014, 10:21 AM
Well, Chevota was skeptical as always. I told him he wouldn't get a OJ from the box he was looking at and sure enough he didn't.
Both tier4 boxes I bought last night had OJ's in them so I'm pretty sure Bentu is some kind of djinn or something, maybe UK voodoo?

My money's on UK voodoo. ;)

Bentu
01-28-2014, 11:32 AM
EXCEPT for the new Bentu method. RNG has met it's match.

OMFGG Zugo sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it's hard enough to come across a virgin in this game as it is. ;)

Albion
01-28-2014, 11:41 AM
I have always thought the lockbox system is broken in this game, and some people get way more orange items than others. There is no reason someone should pull 5 or 6 oranges in one night (like posted earlier) and I open 5 T4 and 2 T3 and get nothing but 2 sad purples. Not to mention, pretty much the same thing happened yesterday to me also.

I think the lockbox system is broken, and will never be fixed.

TremerChrist
01-28-2014, 11:51 AM
Not sure if its RNG or the way I pull boxes. Last night pulled 5 OJs, last weekend I pulled 7 OJs. I pull from the same box and I pull T4s. Always save salvage until I can buy at least 10 boxes and usually get at least 1 OJ.

Amack
01-28-2014, 01:56 PM
I am almost positive (in my head) that there are multiple drop formulas being copied and then modified into the different aspects of the game.

IE; Warmaster encounter is using its own set of percentage chances. Sieges are another set of percentage chances. Arkbreaks and Arkfalls are another set of percentage chances. The lock boxes you use keys to buy from the vendor are yet another set of percentage chances. Co-ops also seem to work on their own set percentage chances.

The faction vendor item generation algorithm is an entirely separate entity other than regular vendor item generation. Once we figured out how to dual wield vendor items, it was not corrected in a timely manner even though we discovered a sure fire way to reproduce the problem. The only logical reason I could come up with regarding why it would not be fixed quickly is that there was a 'scheduled' timeframe for faction vendors to be worked on and modified. This seemed to be verified (in so many words) in the live streams when they mentioned faction vendors would be updated and worked on at a future time.

Extreme Rugburn
01-28-2014, 02:45 PM
I have not pulled an orange from a lockbox since prior to DLC2 release. I play every night and accumulate 75 keycodes every 2nd night and always buy three tier 3 boxes and nothing. Furthermore I have been playing since release and have never received and orange shield or grenade either in a box or as a drop. Im temped to use my 2.5 million ark salvage and go on a bonanaza and see what I get, if anything.

Bentu
01-28-2014, 03:10 PM
I have not pulled an orange from a lockbox since prior to DLC2 release. I play every night and accumulate 75 keycodes every 2nd night and always buy three tier 3 boxes and nothing. Furthermore I have been playing since release and have never received and orange shield or grenade either in a box or as a drop. Im temped to use my 2.5 million ark salvage and go on a bonanaza and see what I get, if anything.

There's your problem right there, 2.5 mill ark salvage, what the hell are you saving for? Your own space ship.

Slayer Slayn
01-28-2014, 03:20 PM
2.5 mill ark salvage... maybe he is saving for his own spaceship. or to build a MechaWM and take on the real one in the old Godzilla movie style. or maybe he is trying to save up for that inevitable antartica paradise DLC?

crasher
01-28-2014, 03:28 PM
2.5 mill ark salvage... maybe he is saving for his own spaceship. or to build a MechaWM and take on the real one in the old Godzilla movie style. or maybe he is trying to save up for that inevitable antartica paradise DLC?
One never knows when they're going to shake what little bit of the game that passes for an economy like turning a snowglobe upside down.

When they decide to do that, while turning Legendary Ver 2.0 weapons into trash like Ver 1.0 weapons were, you'll never know if you need AS or scrip to try and get some stability back rather than go find a new game.

Zugo
01-28-2014, 03:38 PM
OMFGG Zugo sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it's hard enough to come across a virgin in this game as it is. ;)

Hey I ground for those keys after you logged off last night and look what happened. Chevota needs to respect your UK voodoo before he wastes more keys.

Bonehead
01-28-2014, 03:58 PM
Looks like I'll be rolling with my "hermit's hideaway" emc service rifle for a while longer.

N3gativeCr33p
01-28-2014, 04:32 PM
Furthermore I have been playing since release and have never received and orange shield or grenade either in a box or as a drop.

Completely reminds me of my luck (or lack thereof) in this game. :sadface:

Gazz
01-28-2014, 07:44 PM
Well not much joy from lockboxes for me...
T4 mainly blues. (last night 4 blues).
Tried a T3 for a change, 2 green, 1 blue. :confused:

WhiteF8ng
01-28-2014, 10:35 PM
If you check back every so often, and compare notes - You'll see that you, your alt 'toons, and your friends will see the bio nano at TNTW and the flame nano at Soleptor appear at different EGO level numbers for the different players and 'toons.

I've had it appear at E-2K for some of my 'toons, not until about E-3K for others, and several friends who either didn't see it until over E-4K, or never saw nano on them at all.

That leads me to believe that RNG either has some randomly borked persistence, or is randomly borked within servers, too.

Think about the implications of how one player's 'toon might see a faction weapon with nano at E-2K, while another player's 'toon might never see that faction weapon with nano ever.

That isn't standard RNG. Unless you want to go down the road that says that some players are RNGd into a category that they persistently carry for the rest of the game, separate from other player's??

If this IS so, it would explain why SOME players claim to NEVER get oranges, while other players FREQUENTLY get oranges, no?

I find it odd that this would ever occur. The rep vendor nanos are on a EGO based rotation. Why? The world may never know... However isn't it possible those characters have hit overlapping rotations? i.e. Character 1 is a 1600 with a fire nano at Soleptor. Character 2 is a 1601 with no nano at Soleptor. The rotation begins at 1600 making it seems as if 2 characters at the same EGO have different vendor items.

Amack
01-28-2014, 10:37 PM
I find it odd that this would ever occur. The rep vendor nanos are on a EGO based rotation. Why? The world may never know... However isn't it possible those characters have hit overlapping rotations? i.e. Character 1 is a 1600 with a fire nano at Soleptor. Character 2 is a 1601 with no nano at Soleptor. The rotation begins at 1600 making it seems as if 2 characters at the same EGO have different vendor items.

You try to figure that out... I'm going to sit here and ponder the meaning of life... lets see who figures it out first.

To be honest, what Crasher describes in his opening post tells me there is a random variable somewhere in the equation most likely causing this to happen at the faction vendors.

Also, I don't know if I would go so far as to compare the nano thing to getting oranges. They are two completely separate things. I could see how one might come to that conclusion however.

It would also seem to me that the faction vendors are set that way to maintain overall balance and randomness across the player population, not to mention, to keep you coming back and looking.

crasher
01-29-2014, 05:16 AM
You try to figure that out... I'm going to sit here and ponder the meaning of life... lets see who figures it out first.

To be honest, what Crasher describes in his opening post tells me there is a random variable somewhere in the equation most likely causing this to happen at the faction vendors.

Also, I don't know if I would go so far as to compare the nano thing to getting oranges. They are two completely separate things. I could see how one might come to that conclusion however.

It would also seem to me that the faction vendors are set that way to maintain overall balance and randomness across the player population, not to mention, to keep you coming back and looking.

Read this, ignore this, I don't care. I'm just putting it down in case somebody notices:

Regarding the purple text above: I'm not saying they were cause-and-effect related or that either was conditional on the other.

But a Dev crew capable of putting one into the game is surely capable of putting the other into the game. It's not like the mechanic is different, just the situational application.

The point is that I've gone to those vendors with some of my 'toons (I have 7 on 3 accounts, so I can play up to 3 'toons at a time) at different times and stood them alongside each other, sometimes at the same time that several various members of my clan have been there to discuss what we all individually saw.

We originally did that as an experiment to verify that the:



"Hey, if you want a blue electric SAW, XXX has them on sale"
'Dang, I missed it!'


conversations were pointless, because 'toon 'A' and 'toon 'B' saw different stuff as specials at the same time. That's when we also noticed that the normal stuff for sale either did or did-not have nano for different people, and it wasn't all at the same clearly defined EGO levels. As I said, some people with higher EGO 'toons (up to E-4K) had never seen one of those mentioned nanos on one of those mentioned weapons at one of vendors that other much lower EGO 'toons had in personal inventory, at the time from those same vendors.
I have a 'toon that has the Scav Pulsar with flame at E-750, and another that hasn't seen it with flame nano yet at E-2283.

It wasn't until one of my 'toons rolled thru Soleptor the other day looking for that purple Scavenger Pulsar to show up with flame that the idea that some accounts are defaulting to different parameters on creation than others.


It's similar to noticing at Demon entrance gate or Bug-and-Chug that my 'toons always fast travel to the same places but sometimes a 'toon/account that I don't know will fast travel to a point 'near' one of those places but not 'to' the same place as I'm walking/running passed. I know they didn't travel to ME, cuz they didn't hit the same spot I was, and I didn't know them. They weren't traveling to someone else, cuz, well, the game is pretty empty of people a lot of the time. You notice when there's this big empty area that has somebody appear in it. You realize that sometimes some people fast travel to a slightly different landing zone.

I can't explain *why* the things I've seen have been so, but I can say that they did/do happen in this way, and most people playing one 'toon (or, one 'toon at a time) would like never notice them. But as I've said, I play multiples at the same time, and noticed that one 'toon would see something at the exact same time and location that was different than another of my 'toons was seeing on an adjacent screen right at that moment/place. I always just thought it was 'curious', now I think it goes a little deeper.

Just musing on variables and vagaries of the code. With this well-oiled game/server code system we be play on, it surprises me not that people have different Karmic paths open to them probably based on the RNG during 'toon creation. I just didn't expect it as such a factor that might be rolled during 'toon creation.

Albion
01-30-2014, 10:27 AM
I think I have finally reached my breaking point. It truly feels like the loot table for lockboxes is broken for some players, and I am one of them. Its getting old now, no oranges anymore from the warmaster, and no oranges ever from lockboxes...and no chance at all of getting Trion to fix this.

I am up to 16 T4 boxes, with a few T3 and even T2 mixed in there, with no oranges at all. How is this possible? Friends of mine play less than I do, and regularly pull oranges, and nice ones at that. It just wears you down and makes you hate this game. I have been playing since April, must have opened hundreds and hundreds of T4 boxes, and have never pulled an orange VBI AR. Not one. Something is wrong with that. Its not RNG, its broken.

Bentu
01-30-2014, 11:49 AM
I have been playing since April, must have opened hundreds and hundreds of T4 boxes, and have never pulled an orange VBI AR. Not one. Something is wrong with that. Its not RNG, its broken.

Ive only had one and that was a TACC.

firemist
01-30-2014, 11:59 AM
Pulled 2 OJ's last night using Bentu's new super secret method.

VBI AR
Cluster Grenades

So what is the method, pray tell ???

Evil Wall
01-30-2014, 11:59 AM
Friend pulled about 6 legendarys yesterday.

like 3 SAWS and some AR's and a crappy sniper.

I pulled 5 boxes with all blues.

wtf is wrong with you trion?

Bentu
01-30-2014, 12:13 PM
So what is the method, pray tell ???

It won't work anymore, we've run out of virgins :cool:

DSW
01-30-2014, 12:38 PM
I think I have finally reached my breaking point. It truly feels like the loot table for lockboxes is broken for some players, and I am one of them. Its getting old now, no oranges anymore from the warmaster, and no oranges ever from lockboxes...and no chance at all of getting Trion to fix this.

I am up to 16 T4 boxes, with a few T3 and even T2 mixed in there, with no oranges at all. How is this possible? Friends of mine play less than I do, and regularly pull oranges, and nice ones at that. It just wears you down and makes you hate this game. I have been playing since April, must have opened hundreds and hundreds of T4 boxes, and have never pulled an orange VBI AR. Not one. Something is wrong with that. Its not RNG, its broken.

so far i never got any VBI ARs (though i got an OJ TACC rifle recently), nades or pistols.

N3gativeCr33p
01-30-2014, 01:09 PM
I have been playing since April, must have opened hundreds and hundreds of T4 boxes, and have never pulled an orange VBI AR. Not one. Something is wrong with that. Its not RNG, its broken.

I didn't get my OJ VBI AR from a lockbox, I want to say it dropped from some instance... wish I remembered exactly, but I want to say it was (most likely) before DLC2 launched.

Albion
01-30-2014, 02:04 PM
Friend pulled about 6 legendarys yesterday.

like 3 SAWS and some AR's and a crappy sniper.

I pulled 5 boxes with all blues.

wtf is wrong with you trion?

See what I mean? This is wrong. 3 legendary SAW's in one day? Heck, 6 legendary anythings in one day? Since April, I have pulled just one legendary SAW (back in pre-patch days)- and to prove my point further, it wasn't even on my main toon. It was on an alternate I started just to try for low ego weapons.

I realize no one cares about this at Trion. But this broken system costs them more than they think. It leaves players feeling like the game ripped them off, or cheated them...and you think those players are going to buy bits from you now?

I spend a lot of cash, I'm ashamed to admit, on other games micro-transactions. If Trion would have fixed this lockbox mess a long time ago, I can't tell you how much I would have spent on bits buying them. Now? Not one penny from me.

Look into this, and fix it please!

Amack
01-30-2014, 02:09 PM
We have acknowledgement of the issue.
Someone there knows what changed.
It is time to stop dragging your feet and correct it because you are starting to upset people again... and not just a few people.

Bonehead
01-30-2014, 02:10 PM
RNG has never been RNG in this game.
Ever.