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View Full Version : Whats the reason the Raptor doesn't have a turret?



Nefarious
02-06-2014, 04:48 PM
I understand the whole thing about players in the turret seat getting lagged out and leaving a ghost behind that can get shot and killed.

But is Trion and everyone else still dead set on having a group member take control of the would-be turret?

If players lagging behind is such a problem then I say forget about a 2nd party controlling the turret and give the turret controls to the driver. And add an extra seat on the back bumper for the sake of keeping it a "4 player truck of doom."

I know the devs like to use the Xbox controller so they know when driving a vehicle that Left Bumper button doesn't have a use/action and is unassigned to doing anything when driving. Left Bumper is the perfect button while driving to be assigned to fire the turret. And the free look with the Right Stick could move the turret and retinal.

An automatized driver controlled turret.
http://3278as3udzze1hdk0f2th5nf18c1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/south-korea-turret-super-aegis.jpg
http://www.defiancedata.com/images/uploads/746.jpg

Private security firms already have such things on SUVs, a turret on top of the truck that someone inside can control. Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility of making sense if Ark Hunters had such a thing in the future of Defiance.

And not for nothing the Raptor handles horribly. Gets stuck a lot easier then other vehicles. And can barley get up hills at a snails pace. Having a driver controlled turret will give the Raptor an unique edge considering its lousy in all other categories.

InfamousBrad
02-06-2014, 08:14 PM
What I heard was that it did have a turret in internal testing ... and the ability to run and gun at that speed broke the netcode. I'm guessing that the algorithm that predicts where you're going to be, and what terrain could block your shots, couldn't handle the speed anywhere outside of the few tightly optimized areas where you can use a Cerberus.

Umfafa
02-06-2014, 08:15 PM
I'll take incompetence for 100 Alex.

Bonehead
02-06-2014, 08:34 PM
I'll take incompetence for 100 Alex.

Atta boy Fafa Man.
The reason why the raptor has no turret, and will get no turret, is because, for what ever reason, Trick and whatever constitutes his team, can't make it work.

skepticck
02-06-2014, 08:35 PM
I'll take incompetence for 100 Alex.

this, they just don't know how to make most of the things work,
just like co-op arenas, chat (until now), game stability and optimization, a real UI
and pretty much everything that they say "the game doesn't need" like bank, mail (for crying out loud),
crafting and trading post, it's not that they aren't needed it's just that they have no clue how to do them.

If ever there was proof needed just remember chat, 5 years of development, almost a year after release,
3 versions and finaly we get a barebones chat that should have been there at release.

Umfafa
02-06-2014, 08:50 PM
this, they just don't know how to make most of the things work,
just like co-op arenas, chat (until now), game stability and optimization, a real UI
and pretty much everything that they say "the game doesn't need" like bank, mail (for crying out loud),
crafting and trading post, it's not that they aren't needed it's just that they have no clue how to do them.

If ever there was proof needed just remember chat, 5 years of development, almost a year after release,
3 versions and finaly we get a barebones chat that should have been there at release.

The chat improvements are most welcome. They should have been worked out in Alpha....which they would have been if the alpha testers had been listened to. They documented every single problem before release.

The rest of the stuff? There's not really any excuse.

The game is fun. But....the game could have been legendary.

Escyos
02-06-2014, 09:04 PM
It could have had something to do with having infinite ammo and sitting at arkfalls wiping everything out, taking down a hellion in a few seconds and just generally causing problems.

Bonehead
02-06-2014, 09:07 PM
It could have had something to do with having infinite ammo and sitting at arkfalls wiping everything out, taking down a hellion in a few seconds and just generally causing problems.

Or, they can't make it work.
Pretty sure it's they can't make it work.

Blu
02-06-2014, 09:19 PM
It could have had something to do with having infinite ammo and sitting at arkfalls wiping everything out, taking down a hellion in a few seconds and just generally causing problems.

this was the reason,,, when this game fist came out everyone was keeping the truck from the mission and just running over everything at arkfalls,

everyone QQ, then when this truck was being talked about, it was shown with a turret, everyone who had been in this game since beta knew it would never come to life.. .

mostly cause of the arkfall spam,,

see the game is still trion to release dlc content, still see the game has a lot of broken issues that are never going to be fixed, just like i'm curious if they ever fixed the one armor you get as a reward, looks like the navy outfit, glitched and would show up with you having white areas on the skin,,

perfect example of a game that went in the wrong direction after having a lot of promise..

spent over1200hrs in this game,, back to league, enjoy..

Nefarious
02-06-2014, 09:31 PM
It could have had something to do with having infinite ammo and sitting at arkfalls wiping everything out, taking down a hellion in a few seconds and just generally causing problems.

At the time of the introduction of the Raptor I would of agreed with you. But now at days it wouldn't matter.

Just say the turrets stats were 400 Dmg at 8.0 fire rate, pretty much like a SAW. The Raptor wouldn't benefit from powers or spikes. Guys on foot would be dealing more dmg with an array of different guns in comparison. Not to mention the Raptor wouldn't have the mobility to move around like a player on foot could to be able to get better angles on targets. And Raptor turret kills wouldn't give weapon experience.

I just cant see how a Raptor could do better then a player on foot at this point with Spikes, Stims, Power staking, along with all these newly buff weapons in players hands.

For sure the Raptor could hold its own with a constant rate of fire at certain points and players will benefit from it but its not going to dominate the leader boards in any way at Ark Falls since its not going chasing down Hellions or any other Ark Boss for that matter. Same goes with sieges.

Amack
02-06-2014, 09:35 PM
So they don't want the firepower to mess up events? Did I read that wrong?

Escyos
02-06-2014, 09:52 PM
At the time of the introduction of the Raptor I would of agreed with you. But now at days it wouldn't matter.

Just say the turrets stats were 400 Dmg at 8.0 fire rate, pretty much like a SAW. The Raptor wouldn't benefit from powers or spikes. Guys on foot would be dealing more dmg with an array of different guns in comparison. Not to mention the Raptor wouldn't have the mobility to move around like a player on foot could to be able to get better angles on targets. And Raptor turret kills wouldn't give weapon experience.

I just cant see how a Raptor could do better then a player on foot at this point with Spikes, Stims, Power staking, along with all these newly buff weapons in players hands.

For sure the Raptor could hold its own with a constant rate of fire at certain points and players will benefit from it but its not going to dominate the leader boards in any way at Ark Falls since its not going chasing down Hellions or any other Ark Boss for that matter. Same goes with sieges.

Perhaps, but a gun that CONSTANTLY fires and never runs out will become the norm at arkfalls. Would you really like to bother if 50 people sit in their Raptor turrets and just destroy everything while you run around trying to hit one thing.

WhiteF8ng
02-06-2014, 10:00 PM
I always thought it was because the Craptor would have ghosting and sync issues. i.e. You might be in Sausalito but your body is in Marin about to be blasted by a Blacklung kind of deal...

Bonehead
02-06-2014, 10:01 PM
I always thought it was because the Craptor would have ghosting and sync issues. i.e. You might be in Sausalito but your body is in Marin about to be blasted by a Blacklung kind of deal...

That was the official line.
They couldn't make it work.

Amack
02-06-2014, 10:02 PM
I always thought it was because the Craptor would have ghosting and sync issues. i.e. You might be in Sausalito but your body is in Marin about to be blasted by a Blacklung kind of deal...

Well that would give new definition to a ghosting issue... hahaha.

DanteYoda
02-06-2014, 10:53 PM
Well i'll be honest it sounds like either a game engine problem or a developer problem..


That was the official line.
They couldn't make it work.

How come it has no issues in PvP and Coop yet open world has these issues...i don't buy that ghosting line sorry, open world is still an instance...

WhiteF8ng
02-06-2014, 10:57 PM
Well that would give new definition to a ghosting issue... hahaha.

It's truly an experience to be on Freightyard at the C point and get killed by that guy in the building inside the parking garage at the A point. Spectacular stuff...

Tsort
02-07-2014, 03:18 AM
Perhaps, but a gun that CONSTANTLY fires and never runs out will become the norm at arkfalls. Would you really like to bother if 50 people sit in their Raptor turrets and just destroy everything while you run around trying to hit one thing.
But what if somehow the enemies shoot at the Raptors and blow them up, which basically would mean a free player kill unless there is a driver to avoid getting hit...The driver doesn't DPS, so it would be fun but definitely not overpowered. And why not give limited ammo to the raptor anyway ? Also make the turret accuracy terrible while the Raptor moves, and much better when it stops.

I'm sure there is a way to make it balanced. But is there a way to make it work ?

Atticus Batman
02-07-2014, 03:18 AM
Well i'll be honest it sounds like either a game engine problem or a developer problem..



How come it has no issues in PvP and Coop yet open world has these issues...i don't buy that ghosting line sorry, open world is still an instance...

It's always had trouble in PvP. Play freightyard. Those guys just standing still in the open that never move while you kill them are in the Cerberus.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?77408-problems-with-defiance


pvp its nice to see freight yard back but you didn't fix the cerberus glitch which was one of the problems before really so now when your in a cerberus again you drive off thinking people can only kill you in it wrong you body gets left behind somewhere so that people can walk up and kill you easily and you cant defend your self well done not to mention people running around invisible again and with no head most of the time


http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?121335-PvP-cerberus&highlight=cerberus

have you also noticed that when you are on the turrets of the cerberus something happens where it leaves your body suspended in mid air somewhere on the map for the opposite team to freely kill you!!!

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?121593-Cerberus-quot-ghosting-quot&highlight=cerberus


Cerberus "ghosting"

The cerberus leaves "ghosts" of all players inside of the vehicle randomly around the pvp playfield which are targetable. I have died multiple times from clear across the map from this issue. I am pretty sure this is not a lag issue either, but some sort of bug.

... reposting since it still hasn't been addressed.

Blondin
02-07-2014, 03:28 AM
It could have had something to do with having infinite ammo and sitting at arkfalls wiping everything out, taking down a hellion in a few seconds and just generally causing problems.
Is it for the same reasons that the coop-arena are solo...?

The problem is that Trion advertise the Craptor with a turret and arena in multiplayer, then they fired 3/4 of the dev's team, then they sell the dlc without a turret on the Craptor (but with a crosshair) and the arena only in solo...

It seems they fired the wrong person...

Nefarious
02-07-2014, 11:54 AM
The Raptor Turret could have a cool down just like vehicle speed boost.

Arsenic_Touch
02-07-2014, 12:03 PM
My momma always called it "foot in mouth" disease.

The technical reasons are still present in the cerberus during freight yard, some shadow wars and now the military academy now that they finally fixed the invisible walls and black renders. Ghosting. It's funny watching a cerberus go down the street with someone being dragged behind it in the ground or find someone completely standing still where they got in the cerberus.

jackdaws_1999
02-07-2014, 12:23 PM
A simple solution to the "the turrets OPed" problem would be to make it have single enemy BMG levels of damage, but also with an overheat so that constant firing overheats the gun.
Im not suggesting a mounted BMG, just something that does BMG damage (aka 49per tick). This makes it less damaging that a single bullet from any gun in game, but still makes it kinda useful. Could also lead to deathraces :)

with regards the ghosting, well, in PVE the raptor doesnt do this on 360, instead you randomly "fall" out of the vehicle... super annoying but shouldnt kill the turret? So my gunner falls out occasionally, I would rather that than no turret. Plus why cant passangers use their own guns? or even just have mounted directional guns (all with BMG like damage)... it would be AWESOME....


4 for the Partybus!

GRAYWOLF6977
02-07-2014, 01:28 PM
They just need 2 adjust the speed 2 make it a fun 4 wheeler to drive and have fun with. It
doesnt have to be a speed demon but diffenently needs help!!! Turret would be a great add on for those of us who still enjoy playing alone, and I wouldnt mind having to get out of my Raptor & jump into the turret for a little more stationary fire power and maybe a bit of protection while turret bound. No need 4 the Raptor 2 be moving while turret is operated. Just something simple!!! <~QUIT SCREWING WITH FUN GUNS & TRASHING THEM POWERING THEM DOWN TO FAR~>



At the time of the introduction of the Raptor I would of agreed with you. But now at days it wouldn't matter.

Just say the turrets stats were 400 Dmg at 8.0 fire rate, pretty much like a SAW. The Raptor wouldn't benefit from powers or spikes. Guys on foot would be dealing more dmg with an array of different guns in comparison. Not to mention the Raptor wouldn't have the mobility to move around like a player on foot could to be able to get better angles on targets. And Raptor turret kills wouldn't give weapon experience.

I just cant see how a Raptor could do better then a player on foot at this point with Spikes, Stims, Power staking, along with all these newly buff weapons in players hands.

For sure the Raptor could hold its own with a constant rate of fire at certain points and players will benefit from it but its not going to dominate the leader boards in any way at Ark Falls since its not going chasing down Hellions or any other Ark Boss for that matter. Same goes with sieges.

dramaQkarri
02-07-2014, 01:32 PM
My vote goes to incompetence too. I'm going to give myself an infraction for this post, I'm being offensive. But honest!

INFRACTIONS FOR EVERYONE! (at least if I got one I'd know they've read thru this thread)

Ashlocke
02-07-2014, 01:45 PM
I'm at the point where I no longer care about a turret. Yes, originally I was psyched about having a turret like most folks were. But having seen how things work around here (I.E. How Trion handles things) I would at this point be mildly pleased to have the Raptor change driving skills from roller to Cerberus as I really dislike the idea of having to farm coop instances to work on that, so much so that I've decided not to bother until such time as they release an actual Cerberus for us to drive out on the game world.

As for the turret, if for technical and/or balance reasons they can't get it to work, then I'd suggest just making the turret location a trunk. Yeah, a trunk.

It would be nice to walk up to the back of the raptor click the "open trunk" button and have 10-20 storage slots in there. Sort of like a mobile vault. No need to invent any new interface, just use a standard vendor interface, change the names of some tabs, presto blamo, call it a day. If the trunk makes folks happy afterwards they can even consider porting over the "trunk tech" to rollers and dune buggys.

And if they can't get a trunk to work, then I will have lost what little faith remains on my part.