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View Full Version : Patch Notes - A Call For Better Transparency



Deunan
02-24-2014, 05:15 PM
It's no big secret that the patch notes with each update are always incomplete, often failing to disclose material changes in the game that players would want to know. It seems that it's being done largely out of sloppiness as some of the undisclosed changes are good (why on earth would you not want to dislcose changes that players have been requesting for weeks or months). While others are bad, Trion has made it abundantly clear that its not shy about publishing unpopular changes in advance of the actual patch dates, e.g. the weapons overhaul patch not applying retrocatively to already owned weapons and grenade-gate. That being said, things go undisclosed in patch notes so frequently that with each deficient patch note release (which is pretty much every patch note release since I started playing the game in the early fall) player trust in the Community Team gets eroded.

We have a new Community Manager now and one of the things I suggest she do right away is change the approach regarding how patch notes are prepared. The sense I get is that they are often rushed and cobbled together at the last moment. We shouldn't be seeing a draft of the patch notes on the day of implementation. Arguably we shouldn't be seeing a draft at all, but rather a final version at least a day ahead of the actual implementation of the patch. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think that implementing patch updates should not take precedence over total and full disclosure of what the patches do to the game. If that means an update that everyone has been screaming for has to be delayed for a few more days, I say delay it.

Let the CM take the time to meet with the LD and the development staff that created the patch several business days ahead of time to go over in meticulous detail every aspect of what the patch does. Let the Community Team do multiple drafts of the notes and have them reviewed by the LD to make sure they are complete and accurate. I would rather live with patch notes that take up 2 feet of scrolled text filled with details about changes that I might not care about than have ones that end up missing several changes that I would have liked to know ahead of time instead of having to figure it out on my own or hear about it from other players. This could be a first and important step taken by our new Community Manager that would go a long way in establishing much needed credibility for the Community Team.

Arsenic_Touch
02-24-2014, 05:18 PM
/claps

Like your other idea, bloody brilliant but doubt it will happen.

Amack
02-24-2014, 05:33 PM
(why on earth would you not want to dislcose changes that players have been requesting for weeks or months)

I know right, they take so much crap from us, then when they add something like FOV Shift... they totally ignore it.

Rock On Wit Yo Bad Self Deunan!

Bonehead
02-24-2014, 05:40 PM
Agreed, Great idea but too much company policy inertia to overcome.

rebtattoo
02-24-2014, 05:50 PM
We were promised More communication and transparency before. It didn't happen then. I highly doubt that will change, if the "changing of the guard" hasn't sparked more activity from the new DoGC.

I mentioned in another thread that it seemed odd to me that the new DoGC wouldn't want to make a huge positive impact on what I and many others consider a negative community. It seems as if communication will be just as elusive and inconsistent as ever. I'm honestly believing I'll see Nessie before this changes.

Deunan, what you propose is fantastic. Your presentation is spot on, as usual. I just fear that it will fall on deaf ears. For every mention that they are here to "help" us and make our game play "better", they really do seem to bend over backwards to prove quite the opposite.

Arsenic_Touch
02-24-2014, 05:52 PM
Do we even have a new DoGC?

rebtattoo
02-24-2014, 05:53 PM
Do we even have a new DoGC?I may be making an assumption....

Iceberg
02-24-2014, 06:02 PM
Do we even have a new DoGC?

Well, someone is suppose to replace Dahense, so...I hope so?

rebtattoo
02-24-2014, 06:06 PM
Well, someone is suppose to replace Dahense, so...I hope so?Dah told us to turn to Morgana for any questions. I made, what may be an incorrect assumption that meant she was the the DoGC, or at the very least the "Interim DoGC"

Iceberg
02-24-2014, 06:08 PM
Dah told us to turn to Morgana for any questions. I made, what may be an incorrect assumption that meant she was the the DoGC, or at the very least the "Interim DoGC"

well said, kind sir or madam!

Amack
02-24-2014, 06:16 PM
I thought Crasher was the new DoGC?

Iceberg
02-24-2014, 06:18 PM
I thought Crasher was the new DoGC?

I think Arsenic_Touch has a good chance at beating Crasher for that title!

Amack
02-24-2014, 06:20 PM
No, Arsenic is the lead QA representative.

Edit: I'm still the forum troll... that hasn't changed.

rebtattoo
02-24-2014, 06:21 PM
No, Arsenic is the lead QA representative.

Edit: I'm still the forum troll... that hasn't changed.Like to think I'm giving you a run for that particular title. Thank you very much! Heheheh

Iceberg
02-24-2014, 06:23 PM
No, Arsenic is the lead QA representative.

Edit: I'm still the forum troll... that hasn't changed.

Are there any perks with that title?

maverick07
02-24-2014, 06:27 PM
It's no big secret that the patch notes with each update are always incomplete, often failing to disclose material changes in the game that players would want to know. It seems that it's being done largely out of sloppiness as some of the undisclosed changes are good (why on earth would you not want to dislcose changes that players have been requesting for weeks or months). While others are bad, Trion has made it abundantly clear that its not shy about publishing unpopular changes in advance of the actual patch dates, e.g. the weapons overhaul patch not applying retrocatively to already owned weapons and grenade-gate. That being said, things go undisclosed in patch notes so frequently that with each deficient patch note release (which is pretty much every patch note release since I started playing the game in the early fall) player trust in the Community Team gets eroded.

We have a new Community Manager now and one of the things I suggest she do right away is change the approach regarding how patch notes are prepared. The sense I get is that they are often rushed and cobbled together at the last moment. We shouldn't be seeing a draft of the patch notes on the day of implementation. Arguably we shouldn't be seeing a draft at all, but rather a final version at least a day ahead of the actual implementation of the patch. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think that implementing patch updates should not take precedence over total and full disclosure of what the patches do to the game. If that means an update that everyone has been screaming for has to be delayed for a few more days, I say delay it.

Let the CM take the time to meet with the LD and the development staff that created the patch several business days ahead of time to go over in meticulous detail every aspect of what the patch does. Let the Community Team do multiple drafts of the notes and have them reviewed by the LD to make sure they are complete and accurate. I would rather live with patch notes that take up 2 feet of scrolled text filled with details about changes that I might not care about than have ones that end up missing several changes that I would have liked to know ahead of time instead of having to figure it out on my own or hear about it from other players. This could be a first and important step taken by our new Community Manager that would go a long way in establishing much needed credibility for the Community Team.

Agreed. Sure would be nice.. But it's discouraging that it's been brought up a few times and we haven't seen improvements. Guess we'll have to keep finding out what they ninja'd each update :).

I hope that the new CM takes notes and maybe we will see something change with the patch notes. I have my doubt about this like others though :(.

WhiteF8ng
02-24-2014, 07:49 PM
Good luck with this... Good luck with getting this to happen. I tried a few times. Now I have taken the stance of "If they wanted players to know, they would've put them in there...".

crasher
02-24-2014, 08:31 PM
I thought Crasher was the new DoGC?

As stated in another thread:

I direct nothing.
I just spread vicious rumors and evil gossip.

Holy Bahamut3
02-24-2014, 09:13 PM
Love the suggestion, but agree with the pessimistic outlook on it and all forum transparency.

N3gativeCr33p
02-24-2014, 10:13 PM
Love the suggestion, but agree with the pessimistic outlook on it and all forum transparency.

Bingo.

http://media.giphy.com/media/MpajEjKeok5nW/giphy.gif

DanteYoda
02-24-2014, 10:21 PM
Isn't CMkiwi the new DoGC?

Amack
02-24-2014, 11:11 PM
Are there any perks with that title?

Yes there are a few actually... Rearguard, Thickskinned, and Regeneration.

Etaew
02-25-2014, 12:10 AM
It certainly would be better to have comprehensive patch notes, instead of having us create our own from what we notice.

Amack
02-25-2014, 12:12 AM
It certainly would be better to have comprehensive patch notes, instead of having us create our own from what we notice.

True Story!

hey u
02-25-2014, 12:12 AM
It certainly would be better to have comprehensive patch notes, instead of having us create our own from what we notice.

I think Trion is doing this so it gets us all talking and guessing on what was fixed or worked on.

Bonehead
02-25-2014, 12:48 AM
I think Trion is doing this so it gets us all talking and guessing on what was fixed or worked on.

You are very generous U.

Atticus Batman
02-25-2014, 04:10 AM
Isn't CMkiwi the new DoGC?

I thought it was Kiwibird as well.

Storm58
02-25-2014, 09:31 AM
I thought it was Kiwibird as well.

Only if 'CM' stands for "Community Manager................................."

Storm58
02-25-2014, 09:32 AM
FYI, the patch notes are "working as intended."

crasher
02-25-2014, 09:33 AM
I thought it was Kiwibird as well.


Hi all,

I’m thrilled to announce the first addition to Trion’s new and growing Community team—the first of several, in fact!

She’s been around our games-- even here on these forums!-- as GM Kiwibird. As of today, she's officially joining the Trion Community Team full time as CM Kiwibird! You’ll be interacting with her here on the forums, as well as over on our Twitter and Facebook pages.

We really want to level up our ability to meaningfully interact with more of our great players more of the time, and she’s going to be playing a big part in that.

Please give her a warm welcome!

~ MorganaPlease give her a warm welcome!

Manstan
02-25-2014, 10:04 AM
What happen to that new person that was doing all the posting while I was banned? Haven't seen a post from them since the original introduction and short flurry of posts there after.

bigguy
02-25-2014, 10:10 AM
I believe they are constantly changing things at the last second and if the patch notes arent comprehensive they dont need to explain the differences , however this is no excuse for not being more organized. I agree we need more transparency and not just in the patch notes but everything they plan on doing with this game and the things dont work correctly , even though it still comes back to its they're game and they're creation and they do what they want without telling us and thats why we feel they dont give two blanks how we feel and transparency would go along way to helping with this

N3gativeCr33p
02-25-2014, 10:27 AM
Clearly... the Kiwibird has flown out of the proverbial coop. ;)

dramaQkarri
02-25-2014, 10:27 AM
What happen to that new person that was doing all the posting while I was banned? Haven't seen a post from them since the original introduction and short flurry of posts there after.

Hmmm, maybe she was banned too. I know I was.

dramaQkarri
02-25-2014, 10:30 AM
In all honesty, and at the risk of getting banned, it occurs to me that the disorganization stems from too few people doing too much work. I've had jobs like that, deadlines are just impossible to meet cuz there's so much work it just layers up and overwhelms. Employee turnover also adds to the lack of continuity. If I have a great idea and start working on it, but then quit, the project either gets handed off and turns into something I didn't intend, or the project will die in the recycling bin.

Deunan
02-25-2014, 03:12 PM
Isn't CMkiwi the new DoGC?After examining her introduction thread and looking at her forum profle I don't think CM Kiwibird is our new Community Manager. CM Kiwibird was only introduced as a new member of the Community Team. Elizabeth had the title of Director of Global Communications in her forum profile whereas CM Kiwibird's only states Community Team so I don't think she is the new Director of Global Communications. I'll see if I can get some clarification.

Iceberg
02-25-2014, 06:06 PM
After examining her introduction thread and looking at her forum profle I don't think CM Kiwibird is our new Community Manager. CM Kiwibird was only introduced as a new member of the Community Team. Elizabeth had the title of Director of Global Communications in her forum profile whereas CM Kiwibird's only states Community Team so I don't think she is the new Director of Global Communications. I'll see if I can get some clarification.

Good luck with that, asking for communication from them is almost like talking to a wall. Maybe Morgana is going to get promoted then?

Bonehead
02-25-2014, 06:12 PM
Maybe they will save some money and not have one. The community manager just manages the community. What we think that should look like has no impact on what they think it should look like.
Like I said before, new horse, same harness.

rebtattoo
02-25-2014, 06:16 PM
As I said earlier, I may have assumed falsely. I just thought that was the way Dah had introduced Kiwi. I also assumed CM meant community manager or DoGC.

Deunan
02-25-2014, 07:23 PM
Elizabeth didn't introduce her, Morgana did. Her last day was before CM Kiwibird was introduced.

crasher
02-25-2014, 07:56 PM
I believe they are constantly changing things at the last second and if the patch notes arent comprehensive they dont need to explain the differences , however this is no excuse for not being more organized. I agree we need more transparency and not just in the patch notes but everything they plan on doing with this game and the things dont work correctly , even though it still comes back to its they're game and they're creation and they do what they want without telling us and thats why we feel they dont give two blanks how we feel and transparency would go along way to helping with this

Do patches need to be submitted for review?

If so, I'd expect little or no 'Last second' changes.

Amack
02-25-2014, 08:16 PM
http://i57.tinypic.com/2vxn8n7.jpg

Slayer Slayn
02-25-2014, 08:18 PM
soooo I come back to a post about clarity in patchnotes and it leads to "we are getting a personnel change" (DoGC or CM)? I didn't think I was gone that long....maybe a month of playing dead space 3 changes the flow of space and time? where is Dahanese going? Whats going on?! who are you people, why are you on my digital lawn, and what happened to my clothes?!"

Manstan
02-25-2014, 08:40 PM
soooo I come back to a post about clarity in patchnotes and it leads to "we are getting a personnel change" (DoGC or CM)? I didn't think I was gone that long....maybe a month of playing dead space 3 changes the flow of space and time? where is Dahanese going? Whats going on?! who are you people, why are you on my digital lawn, and what happened to my clothes?!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc5iTNVEOAg

crasher
02-25-2014, 08:46 PM
soooo I come back to a post about clarity in patchnotes and it leads to "we are getting a personnel change" (DoGC or CM)? I didn't think I was gone that long....maybe a month of playing dead space 3 changes the flow of space and time? where is Dahanese going? Whats going on?! who are you people, why are you on my digital lawn, and what happened to my clothes?!"
I prefer:
"Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?", actually.

Bonehead
02-25-2014, 08:52 PM
I prefer:
"Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?", actually.

Okay, it took about four seconds but I got it.

rebtattoo
02-25-2014, 09:39 PM
Thank you again Deunan, I can't even keep my jekkin facts straight....May need to take a break from the forum....meh

Atticus Batman
02-26-2014, 01:10 AM
soooo I come back to a post about clarity in patchnotes and it leads to "we are getting a personnel change" (DoGC or CM)? I didn't think I was gone that long....maybe a month of playing dead space 3 changes the flow of space and time? where is Dahanese going? Whats going on?! who are you people, why are you on my digital lawn, and what happened to my clothes?!"

Dahanese left for a different Job. OverloadUT left as well.

BlaqWolf
02-26-2014, 04:45 AM
We have a new Community Manager now and one of the things I suggest she do right away is change the approach regarding how patch notes are prepared.

Please remember, Trion has dedicated three employees to Defiance development and patching. One of those is merely the janitor... though he's filling in as a CM and QC lead (and the entire QC team, too) when he's not emptying trashcans.

N3gativeCr33p
02-26-2014, 08:00 AM
Do patches need to be submitted for review?

If so, I'd expect little or no 'Last second' changes.

You and me both, kind sir.

Slayer Slayn
02-26-2014, 01:30 PM
sooo with dahanese and overloadUT gone and the new CM being this kiwibird person things have been shaken up a bit and not for the better (at least not yet) from what I've been able to gather. jekk how do they manage to keep letting gamer relations get more strained? I might have to go back to playstation and play through another game for another month and let you peeps ride this one out. I just cant do this anymore. Dah and OUT be gone?! troublesome this is. convene with the council we must. This kiwibird child must not be trained. too old is he/she? another way we must find if this game is to be saved.

JEMINAI
02-26-2014, 01:54 PM
lol I thought this was going to be a post about shoddy visual effects.
I do a bit of interface design myself and each time I walk upto an instance entrance and see the badly blended transparency of animation, looks cut n pasted. my skin crawls! (inner skinner)