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View Full Version : Siege point scoring besides the Killshot discussion.



crasher
02-28-2014, 10:50 AM
There's a thread about the killshot at a siege already, and this is tangential to that. I'm not wishing to derail that thread with 'off topic' discussion, so I'm starting this one.

I'm fine with a 2% to 5% bonus for the killshot, completely separate from the damage point pool of the target. The killshot shouldn't take points from the pool. It should augment it.

As an example of weapon and mode: I'm mostly fine with Surge Bolters being used on Viscera if the players using the Bolters didn't pick off all the troopers first. Once you do that, it leaves just the Viscera to be slowly whittled down, and many of the people who get individual Viscera health score (from a pool of Viscera) down to 80%-90% end up with nothing when the one or two other Viscera are killed to end the stage.

I see this as a combination of details:

1.) A 'result' of player behavior, which is unavoidable because people ARE free to play the game using legal weapons choices. (Not 'fixable'.)
2.) Too many Viscera for the damage pool that ends the stage. Yes, I know, too few Volge ends up in one or two getting lost and the stage hanging. But it's almost to the point that there are large numbers of Volge that can be bullet sponges for many people who end up with no payoff after having spent a lot of time shooting something that doesn't get killed before the stage is ended.

It's not as if players can reliably communicate/coordinate on this in a fast/efficient manner, and some of us find ourselves protecting a point alone against Viscera and doing great damage while 6 players at the other end take down the one that ends the stage. And by extension, this one Viscera is the only one of those in battle at that point that awards any score.
Often there will be (for example) 5 separate players shooting at 5 separate Viscera and each player gets no score for the effort to protect the point.

It's just another point of feeling that one expended much effort for no payoff. We only get points from an actual kill rather than cumulative damage.

I'd be happy if we got score from the 90% done to a Viscera that isn't killed by stage end rather than the current 'No Score if not killed before stage end' as we have now.

Discussion?

Bonehead
02-28-2014, 10:56 AM
Those ideas sound good to me. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to implement.
I don't know why so many parts of the game need to be so cumbersome and complicated.

rebtattoo
02-28-2014, 11:01 AM
Personally, I don't think there should be a "kill shot" bonus.

Sieges are designed to be group efforts. Scoring should be simplified. Assign "x" amount of damage to enemy. Lets say 1000 for example.

3 ppl put down enemy

A. hits 600
B. hits 390
C. hits 10 [last one being kill shot]

A. receives 600 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
B. receives 390 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
C. receives 10 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc.

Am I simplifying this too much? It just seems the easiest way to score it. The person doing the most damage reaps the most reward.

Quebra Regra
02-28-2014, 11:13 AM
Personally, I don't think there should be a "kill shot" bonus.

Sieges are designed to be group efforts. Scoring should be simplified. Assign "x" amount of damage to enemy. Lets say 1000 for example.

3 ppl put down enemy

A. hits 600
B. hits 390
C. hits 10 [last one being kill shot]

A. receives 600 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
B. receives 390 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
C. receives 10 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc.

Am I simplifying this too much? It just seems the easiest way to score it. The person doing the most damage reaps the most reward.

Well stated, I vote for this (are we voting? ;)

dramaQkarri
02-28-2014, 11:16 AM
I agree. We can't stop the detonator mongers, and they get all the kill shots with very little skill or effort. Quick with the detonate button...

And I don't mind those people as much as I used to (just roll my eyes) but incursions/sieges should be worth everyone's time, or like the warmaster, no one will do them anymore. Or we'll ALL have to whip out our detonators and cause even more lag than we already have. That's not fun.

No reason that the scording shouldn't be simple - as in I like this idea!

crasher
02-28-2014, 11:19 AM
Personally, I don't think there should be a "kill shot" bonus.

Sieges are designed to be group efforts. Scoring should be simplified. Assign "x" amount of damage to enemy. Lets say 1000 for example.

3 ppl put down enemy

A. hits 600
B. hits 390
C. hits 10 [last one being kill shot]

A. receives 600 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
B. receives 390 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
C. receives 10 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc.

Am I simplifying this too much? It just seems the easiest way to score it. The person doing the most damage reaps the most reward.
Sure.
No problem.
2% Killshot 'Bonus' isn't a dealbreaker for me.

But the issue is that if you and 2 of your friends were to do 99% cumulative damage to that Elite Viscera (A), and 2 other groups do the same (To Elite Viscera's 'B' and 'C'), but that one Viscera (D) down at the far end with 16 people all shooting at it dies first, you - the people in your group, the people in the other 2 groups shooting at 'B' and 'C' - get nothing at all.

And that situation can occur stage after stage after stage.

I can theoretically do tons of damage to many many Elite Viscera that don't die by the end of each stage, and wind up with (example) 9 points at the end.

DSW
02-28-2014, 12:16 PM
But the issue is that if you and 2 of your friends were to do 99% cumulative damage to that Elite Viscera (A), and 2 other groups do the same (To Elite Viscera's 'B' and 'C'), but that one Viscera (D) down at the far end with 16 people all shooting at it dies first, you - the people in your group, the people in the other 2 groups shooting at 'B' and 'C' - get nothing at all.


that thing drives me off at Kenn and Diablo sieges. especially kenn one - why, WTH, it's only ONE hulker to get killed even if there's so many people that you can't see them? and then we have Chinatown siege, where we have to kill (almost) all bulwarks to move on to next stage. seems really inconsistent to me.

rebtattoo
02-28-2014, 12:16 PM
Sure.
No problem.
2% Killshot 'Bonus' isn't a dealbreaker for me.

But the issue is that if you and 2 of your friends were to do 99% cumulative damage to that Elite Viscera (A), and 2 other groups do the same (To Elite Viscera's 'B' and 'C'), but that one Viscera (D) down at the far end with 16 people all shooting at it dies first, you - the people in your group, the people in the other 2 groups shooting at 'B' and 'C' - get nothing at all.

And that situation can occur stage after stage after stage.

I can theoretically do tons of damage to many many Elite Viscera that don't die by the end of each stage, and wind up with (example) 9 points at the end.Easy solution. The round doesn't end until ALL enemies of said round are dead.

Burned In Effigy
02-28-2014, 12:21 PM
Personally, I don't think there should be a "kill shot" bonus.

Sieges are designed to be group efforts. Scoring should be simplified. Assign "x" amount of damage to enemy. Lets say 1000 for example.

3 ppl put down enemy

A. hits 600
B. hits 390
C. hits 10 [last one being kill shot]

A. receives 600 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
B. receives 390 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc
C. receives 10 pts plus bonuses for weapons and perks, etc.

Am I simplifying this too much? It just seems the easiest way to score it. The person doing the most damage reaps the most reward.
Yes and yes. I can empty 6mags from my smg and another player can finish the job with one shot and get the 20k. Another issue I had was there is a challenge where u have to kill an enemy that another player had already damaged.

crasher
02-28-2014, 02:18 PM
Easy solution. The round doesn't end until ALL enemies of said round are dead.

Yeah, but then we might end up back at the position of one Volge wandering off, or getting spawned inside something where it can't be gotten to....
And then the stage stalls like it used to.

I still like being awarded damage points for damage done at the end of a stage whether the target is dead at that point or not.
Once the stage is done, you are awarded the damage you did.

Look at the animation.
At stage end, it looks like the survivors get into a pod and scoot.

Look at surviving monarchs at the end of a Diablo stage.
The stage ends, the surviving Monarchs tunnel their way the hell outta Dodge, and take no damage while doing so.

Just like the Volge in question above.... Sometimes we have a lot of time invested in a Monarch that digs to China, and we get no points for the one we were shooting because 6 more players were shooting at that other one over there and killed it first.

What about MY damage to THIS one?
It's 'Zero'?
Maybe a minute or more damage done to a target yields zero attribution because more people ended a different one first?

rebtattoo
02-28-2014, 02:35 PM
I see where your at. I do agree that ppl should get credit for work "done" rather than work done on "ending" baddie.

I still think the level bar just needs to vanish...Kill what comes at you. At hellbug arkfalls. The next wave doesn't start til all the critters from previous are vaporized. At least, that's the way I've experienced it.

I understand what you're saying about the "wandering". Limit that. The volge main purpose is to capture points. Once the last cap is captured they could migrate to a central point. Something.

My biggest vex with the sieges is pouring a shtako-load of damage into a viscera, just to see him vanish right before the kill because someone else killed another one a cap away. Just like you mentioned.