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View Full Version : A Q&A from Etaew's 7th March Livestream Answers Transcript.



crasher
03-08-2014, 07:48 AM
tl:dr
::shrugg::, it's your time.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?151623-7th-March-Livestream-Answers&p=1425912#post1425912

"Does the new scoring system in Gunslinger punish solo players?

We are actively punishing players who die a lot, so if you are a person who died a lot regardless of the
strategy, it will be a painful update for you and you will have to get good at surviving."

I understand that dieing isn't a very good strategy.

Some of us play on dead shards.
Some of us play in areas without a lot of population.
Some of us admit that the game, while being fun/great/wonderful, our most favoritest thing in the whole world, isn't real skruggin popular with a lot of the gaming community.
In fact, a lot of the game's player base has fled never to return and despite the churn, many newbs do the same thing.


Totally not the players fault. I don't care WHY, it just IS, but:

MUCH of that blame lies at the feet of TRION for gutting The Dev team.
Much of that blame also lies squarely on "The Design Team's" shoulders for lame design of a lot of game areas, game ambiance, DLC subjects, and game mechanics, rewards, payments, penalties and costs all introduced since launch. And, to be honest, a fair amount of ham-fisted social engineering trying to influence player strategies to include tactics that are counterproductive by imposing fines and penalties..


It leaves us with a shrinking player base.
And TRION managed to do something to the code that puts a lot of people randomly on the population-density equivalent of a virtual traffic jam in some cases, or a deserted island in others.

It's the players forced to and stuck on the deserted island thats going to be the problem with the Q&A in the topic.

I end up playing alone for a lot of reasons.
In addition to being stuck on a dead shard:

Some of us play at times there's just nobody around.
Some of us play alone because the grouping and cooperation in game mechanics is STILL pretty bad communication-wise. It aint natural, it aint easy, it aint efficient, and it just aint really working well enough for a lot of people to even want to try it anymore.


So some of us end up in Minor ArkEvents alone, because there just isn't anyone else. We put out calls, nobody comes. We start a minor ArkBreak with several people - we end up alone inside of one.
Hey: Design Team:
Hows about the Huntmasters and drones don't camp on the ammo and respawn sites I rez to?
You guys spawned me alone in there to begin with, hows about giving me a fighting chance before you pick my pocket and deem it my fault?
Give that a ponder while you have your morning coffee.

Some of us die at ArkEvents because we're alone. Some of us die at Hellion events, getting smashed into the ground over and over again, because there are fewer than 10 people for the hellion to chose from to stomp.
NOT MY FAULT. NOT OUR FAULT.

And now it's going to start costing us big if we play a deserted game, alone or in smaller groups.
Dieing is going to cost big.
Rewards playing alone will suxor.
Hey: Design Team:
You just designed a game mechanic insuring all those desolate areas remain desolate more of the time, while a lot of the player base solos places like Mt Tam, or IDR area.
Who is going to go scout areas of southern SanFran HOPING to find enough people to play with, so that they don't quit the day with less than they started with?

Well, swell, "Design Team".
Good ideas.
Lets make it more reasonable to log in, see no one or few people around, and just log back out.
It sure isn't going to take people long to see that when it costs way too much to play many desolate areas compared to the slim/no rewards from winning an event alone, you just convinced all those people who solo while waiting for an alternative - to just log back out.
Reducing the population density for anyone ELSE who logs in a moment later to see/chose from, and they log out.
Case in point:
How long do players wait in queue's for PvP, and SW's anymore? I remember conversations of people waiting hours and then logging off before anyone shows up.
I remember conversation of reducing the required number for SW's and PvP areas because there just weren't enough people queuing to get one started.


So:

I lose incentive to play alone when I'm forced to play alone because rewards for playing alone are nerfed.
My penalties for playing alone when I'm forced to play alone are buffed.
And it's going to now cost me a shtako-tonne to add slots to weapons or buy the keys I don't 'win' anymore in solo events to redeem for blue weapons that I immediately salvage for a whole skruggin lot less than it cost me to acquire them.


See, THIS is why I mentioned "lame design of a lot of game areas, game ambiance, DLC subjects, and game mechanics all introduced since launch." about a half a page up above.

Is there really a point to play, anymore, when "The Design Team" making the game just don't really understand the concept of 'compelling game play'?
A lot of individual things in this game are 'hard' - not because it's challenging, but just because the game mechanics are designed to be repetitively annoying, because the 'challenging' part wasn't understood in the design phase.

Just like another answer in Etaew's 7th March Livestream Answers Transcript:

"Is there an update to the vehicles disappearing issue?

We have been able to somewhat capture that in a controlled circumstance. We have a much better idea about what causes that will make it easier to fix, it points to a very hard to fix issue so could be some time."
They can't fix the bug, because it's too hard to fix, so, forget it, they just aint gonna fix it in our lifetimes.
Get over it.

"The Design Team" just doesn't seem to be pulling in the same direction the player base who pays the bills is.
And it's getting harder and harder for the declining player base to keep dragging this pow towards the finish-line.
I'm already seeing some of my remaining friends logging in a whole lot less or 'not at all' since ESO weekend, and almost all of them say that they just don't see the point in it anymore.
[Plebeian27, you're one of them.]

I don't like it, my back is already against the wall, and that's a nasty badguy I'm about to fight alone, because... well, I'm alone.

And it's going to cost me a lot to play, today.

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 08:01 AM
And it's getting harder and harder for the declining player base to keep dragging this pow towards the finish-line.
I'm already seeing some of my remaining friends logging in a whole lot less or 'not at all' since ESO weekend, and almost all of them say that they just don't see the point in it anymore.

This is the spot where I'm kind of at with the game... I login and play the game just long enough to open my daily/weekly reward box, and level up weapons just a bit in the Thorn Liro arenas.

Contracts have become overly tedious.
Laggy/overpopulated incursions are a complete PITA, and the post-incursion "rewards" are anything but exciting.
Random vehicle despawns have turned into a MAJOR PITA.
Finding a Marin or SF incursion is like trying to find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

"Long, fulfilling chase"... what a crock of shtako. :rolleyes:

Lucent
03-08-2014, 08:01 AM
I think you made some great points. I honestly felt sad while listening to the Q&A because I want to keep enjoying this game and I worry that I won't be able to with the changes. I want to keep enjoying the game like it is. For example, I thought the idea of refreshing grenades was unique and interesting... and once it changed drastically, I don't really bother with them. The fact that they are refillable in the cash shop makes me think this is going in the way of F2P. So does the fact that the whole two 7th Legion outfits coming to the cash shop are $20 a piece.
I know loot games are intended to be a time-sink but I don't want that fact rubbed in my face like a F2P game.

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 09:43 AM
If I had to make up a reason why the scoring system was changed (and I do because Trion wont say why they did anything really beyond a bunch of random words that are hard to get real meaning out of) I would say it is a direct result of the Warmaster strategy that came from the alpha days of DLC 2. Trick was obviously not happy about the way we deal with the big monkey and since the creative team can do nothing simple and elegant the change had to be convoluted, complex and unwieldy.
This is the lesson I have learned from this creative team. If you ask for change, expect something like the grenade fiasco.
If they say they are changing something. expect the same.

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 09:44 AM
What has two thumbs and WON'T pay $20 for a 7th Legion skin?

<<< This guy.

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 09:55 AM
Yea 20 bucks is a bit dear for an outfit.

crasher
03-08-2014, 10:31 AM
If I had to make up a reason why the scoring system was changed (and I do because Trion wont say why they did anything really beyond a bunch of random words that are hard to get real meaning out of) I would say it is a direct result of the Warmaster strategy that came from the alpha days of DLC 2. Trick was obviously not happy about the way we dely with the big monkey and since the creative team can do nothing simple and elegant the change had to be convoluted, complex and unwieldy.
This is the lesson I have learned from this creative team. If you ask for change, expect something like the grenade fiasco.
If they say they are changing something. expect the same.

Good catch. Thanx for a connection I missed.
Player is down.
Other Players die rezzing.
More DPS removed from fighting the WM.
More failures.
Fewer WMs get started by anyone who learned the above.

What has two thumbs and WON'T play the WM anymore?
Everybody who got tired of the skruggin shtako mechanics and penalties.

'The Dev Team' standing there scratching head with fork wondering why nobody plays all that kewl stuff they designed....

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 10:36 AM
I always know when people in the clan are trying to run a WM instance... thanks to those login/logout notifications.

Verrrrr nice!

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 10:39 AM
Good catch. Thanx for a connection I missed.
Player is down.
Other Players die rezzing.
More DPS taken from the WM.
More failures.
Fewer WMs get started by anyone who learned the above.

What has two thumbs and WON'T play the WM anymore?
Everybody who got tired of the skruggin shtako mechanics and penalties.

'The Dev Team' standing there scratching head with fork wondering why nobody plays all that kewl stuff they designed....

Okay, the fork part made me spit some food.Nicely done.

hardy83
03-08-2014, 10:51 AM
Yes. I still don't think deaths should have a penalty with the WM, or any event where death has a high chance of happening due to complete randomness.

That or they need to add 2-4 minutes to the timer now to give people a chance now that rezzing will be heavily encouraged.

Of course...Due to the WONDERFUL RNG, I never get the weapons I need anyways, so I've already kind of stopped doing them.
I hate hate HATE RNG, but man is the RNG bad in this game compared to many other MMOs.

crasher
03-08-2014, 11:00 AM
Yes. I still don't think deaths should have a penalty with the WM, or any event where death has a high chance of happening due to complete randomness.

That or they need to add 2-4 minutes to the timer now to give people a chance now that rezzing will be heavily encouraged.

Of course...Due to the WONDERFUL RNG, I never get the weapons I need anyways, so I've already kind of stopped doing them.
I hate hate HATE RNG, but man is the RNG bad in this game compared to many other MMOs.
Thats part of that whole 'We can't figure out how to make it challenging, so we'll make it crazystupidhard, instead, and call it good.' thinking that is in so many things here.

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 11:02 AM
"but man is the RNG bad in this game compared to many other MMOs."


I will take "yes" for 1000 Alex.

drackiller
03-08-2014, 11:26 AM
But we paid for the fracking DLC in my case a season pass, and we have to pay what we should already have !?

Not that i care for the stupid outfits, most of the times i use my initial survivalist outfif. Now i`m using the collective infiltrator, but I EARNED it.

plebeian27
03-08-2014, 01:00 PM
"The Design Team" just doesn't seem to be pulling in the same direction the player base who pays the bills is.
And it's getting harder and harder for the declining player base to keep dragging this pow towards the finish-line.
I'm already seeing some of my remaining friends logging in a whole lot less or 'not at all' since ESO weekend, and almost all of them say that they just don't see the point in it anymore.
[Plebeian27, you're one of them.]



My dear friend Crasher - what can I say that hasn't already been said...other than add my two cents worth.

The ultimate problem I find with this game is that people like it. If we didn't like it we wouldn't still be here. And just like your best friend who keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again, you sit back and hope they get it right this time. That's the point I feel like I am at with this game. Trion has made mistakes over and over again, some intentional, some not, but I still sit back and wait for them to get it right.

I'm not stupid or naive by any means; I haven't pumped near the money into this game that others have. It is a F2P game where they try to make you pay more in the shop. I don't spend my hard earned in the bit shop so I feel I don't have a whole lot to say about the bugs and direction the game is going. Do I care about it? Yes. Do I see an answer down the road? No.

I have made some lifelong friends during this year and will miss the game when I'm gone. I'll probably check back in from time to time but, in the long run, a game who has listened to me more and fixed more problems in the beta stages than this game has in a year is going to get my business.

Love ya Crash!

j3crow
03-08-2014, 01:19 PM
What has two thumbs and WON'T pay $20 for a 7th Legion skin?

<<< This guy.

I agree. They've pretty much lost me as a customer at this point. It very much reminds me of another title by PWE. I won't play that game ether, because it's monetization model is extremely exploitive. And in some ways, that was a fun game. I am left very disappointed in the development of this game

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 01:20 PM
I hate hate HATE RNG, but man is the RNG bad in this game compared to many other MMOs.

TESTIFY! Very very true words there, kind sir!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/87fafdd8f67dc94183bfaca6b3506e5a/tumblr_mhd115HgZA1rxevt4o1_500.gif

Riz
03-08-2014, 01:38 PM
Ah, the Warmaster... Yes, i remember him...

That's the beast who's instance kicks half the clan when they try entering it's Arkfall. From the 25 people present and fighting outside only 12 actually make it through to the inside. Sadly, there is always a dumbazz amongst those 12 that doesn't understand it's better to wait for more players to return then to instantly break the locks the moment you may go down.

That Warmaster, yes. 50% chance to actually enter, and if you actually make it in still 50% chance to fail due to lack of players present or having a r3t4rd present that spoils it all. Got the Trophy, mates! Succeeded once in being in right and lucky group and defeat the WM! Not ever i'm going to go it again. Simply not worth the trouble.

^^And then to think DLC 2 actually IS the best that was offered to us so far lol. We have a broken DLC topping the other 2, YEY!

bigguy
03-08-2014, 01:43 PM
The fact that they called the salvage cost to open slots reduction a mistake is a COMPLETE LIE!!! , i remeber when it cost me 1mil ark salvage to open 8 mod slots and i was pissed. They are doing this on purpose and its COMPLETE BS!!! , over and over i keep thinking they want this game to fail. So to the wise people who keep saying they want this game to be challenging i hope you enjoy doing events for NO REWARDS. Oh and does anyone else feel like they are pumping out garbage dlc as fast as they can so that the season passes are fulfilled and they can try and charge everyone full price for the much wanted map expansion.

Nefarious
03-08-2014, 01:55 PM
I happy there's penalties for getting killed. Its about time. This game since day 1 the events have been 'always win' situations. Enemies were never a threat since getting killed yielded no consequence, you could simply have a superman syndrome and run up to them all point blank and just unload your gun into them.

Now players will be a bit more weary going into the least threating situations and very cautious of the most dire ones.

The consequence of death is a good thing and it gives a much needed boost for the sociological effect enemies will now have. Enemies will now be looked at as a threat instead of just a target to shoot.

r2nddan
03-08-2014, 02:18 PM
The most interesting thing about all these posts recently is the absence of the regular fanboys defending trion. Interesting maybe they are embarrassed or scared to try. Or, maybe they gave up trying.

r2nddan
03-08-2014, 02:20 PM
The fact that they called the salvage cost to open slots reduction a mistake is a COMPLETE LIE!!! , i remeber when it cost me 1mil ark salvage to open 8 mod slots and i was pissed. They are doing this on purpose and its COMPLETE BS!!! , over and over i keep thinking they want this game to fail. So to the wise people who keep saying they want this game to be challenging i hope you enjoy doing events for NO REWARDS. Oh and does anyone else feel like they are pumping out garbage dlc as fast as they can so that the season passes are fulfilled and they can try and charge everyone full price for the much wanted map expansion.
No doubt they did these last 2 dlcs at the same time. We are not as stupid as they think!

Albion
03-08-2014, 02:24 PM
Oh, and then there is this - I paid 10 bucks for the 7th legion DLC, and so far I have gotten absolutely nothing from it because the RNG lottery ticket system that doles out the content sucks the big one.

So, in response to our valid complaints, Trion is going to make this better. You can now directly access 2 of those 7th Legion outfits without the RNG nonsense for an additional 20 bucks. So now you are asking me to pay again to access the content I already paid for once and did not get. I swear, you could not make this up.

crasher
03-08-2014, 02:27 PM
No doubt they did these last 2 dlcs at the same time. We are not as stupid as they think!
Apparently I am.
I still play the game, so far.

But I can say to them:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ZgnVb5Q7I

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 02:40 PM
But I can say to them:

"Embedding disabled by request"? ;)

crasher
03-08-2014, 02:43 PM
"Embedding disabled by request"? ;)

I'm a man of mystery.
That's one of the mysterys.

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 02:46 PM
I'm a man of mystery.
That's one of the mysterys.

But are you an international man of mystery?

That is the true mystery. :) lol

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 03:01 PM
" I swear, you could not make this up."

They did.

j3crow
03-08-2014, 03:27 PM
Oh, and then there is this - I paid 10 bucks for the 7th legion DLC, and so far I have gotten absolutely nothing from it because the RNG lottery ticket system that doles out the content sucks the big one.

So, in response to our valid complaints, Trion is going to make this better. You can now directly access 2 of those 7th Legion outfits without the RNG nonsense for an additional 20 bucks. So now you are asking me to pay again to access the content I already paid for once and did not get. I swear, you could not make this up.

This exactly. This has me seriously contemplating asking for a refund for my season pass.

otonagamer
03-08-2014, 04:00 PM
I happy there's penalties for getting killed. Its about time. This game since day 1 the events have been 'always win' situations. Enemies were never a threat since getting killed yielded no consequence, you could simply have a superman syndrome and run up to them all point blank and just unload your gun into them.

Now players will be a bit more weary going into the least threating situations and very cautious of the most dire ones.

The consequence of death is a good thing and it gives a much needed boost for the sociological effect enemies will now have. Enemies will now be looked at as a threat instead of just a target to shoot.
Totally agreed. There's almost no penalty for death now and just be dead and respawn is better tactics then trying to survive in Minor Arkbreaks. this is ridiculous. Keep dying shouldn't be better tactics then trying to survive. Because of Protective Spike addition, Reviving someone is now quite a easy thing to do. It doesn't need much skill but social aspect that others should help each other. Just give some score for reviving someone and people keep searching for someone to revive. Noobs get popular.

Amack
03-08-2014, 04:03 PM
The shard system was out of control for lack of a better term. They could not design a system to evenly distribute the population into the shards because there was literally too many shards. This is a process they must go through. First, they have to bring the shard system under control and then once that is accomplished they can design a way to evenly populate the shards. There won't be "quiet shards" anymore, and there won't be "lost players" either. Should this have been in the game long ago? Most definitely. I am not blindly defending them. I am just happy with the response I received regarding this issue. Did they respond back to me directly? No. I do see them making progress behind the scenes however, and I am content with better late than never.

On the subject of the scoring system, I am concerned, yes. I am mostly a solo player unless it is a clan based event in the evening, etc. I am reserving judgement until the final release however. What I can tell you all, is that if it effects my gameplay in any negative way whatsoever I will be here beside all of you moaning and complaining, perhaps louder than many. Practice makes perfect, and I have practiced volge sieges so many times now that I rarely die. The warmaster encounter is very different however, and I believe we will all have to work together to redesign our strategies for it.

The task that Trion has before them is not an easy one by any means of the word. The scoring system has to compliment the new shard system that is not even fully in place yet. That means they must all mentally have a common goal in mind, and multiple departments must work towards that common goal.

I have witnessed them hot-fixing the shard system on the live server in the early AM hours. There was obviously an issue with the first hot-fix, so they reverted it back, and continued to work on it. I have no clue how it is running currently as I have not had time to play yet. I can say that they put the hot-fix back onto the live servers yesterday, but I do not know about today.

The only reason I prefer to play this game solo many times, is simply because the system favors it currently. However, this is an MMO, and if people prefer to play solo, that is not good. That means something is not right, somewhere. If people want to play solo, they should not be playing an online game. I want the system fixed so that I have more fun, and more rewards for playing with my friends. That is what I believe they are attempting to make happen.

The vehicle disappearing problem is a symptom of overloaded shards, I am almost positive about this, but don't quote me on it. Once the shard system is properly setup and populated, hopefully (crosses fingers) it will fix the vehicles as well.

If we are truly very lucky indeed, once they get this worked out, it will increase PS3 game play ability.

crasher
03-08-2014, 04:44 PM
This thread has blown up and I was away from the computer.

Before I finish reading the entire thread I would like to address one of the issues with the OP. (Subject to editing)

The shard system was out of control for lack of a better term. They could not design a system to evenly distribute the population into the shards because there was literally too many shards. This is a process they must go through. First, they have to bring the shard system under control and then once that is accomplished they can design a way to evenly populate the shards. There won't be "quiet shards" anymore, and there won't be "lost players" either. Should this have been in the game long ago? Most definitely. I am not blindly defending them. I am just happy with the response I received regarding this issue. Did they respond back to me directly? No. I do see them making progress behind the scenes however, and I am content with better late than never.

On the subject of the scoring system, I am concerned, yes. I am mostly a solo player unless it is a clan based event in the evening, etc. I am reserving judgement until the final release however. What I can tell you all, is that if it effects my gameplay in any negative way whatsoever I will be here beside all of you moaning and complaining, perhaps louder than many. Practice makes perfect, and I have practiced volge sieges so many times now that I rarely die. The warmaster encounter is very different however, and I believe we will all have to work together to redesign our strategies for it.

They had a shard system that didn't do this before.
It worked all along.
They broke it some time in the recent past.
Every day that it's not fixed after Tuesday is a day that somebody is going to be penalized for having no options, and that person won't let the door hit 'em ona butt on their way out, either.

As far as the WM is concerned:
Ancient history for the ppl who have won it.
Big cost with little pay-off for the up-n-comers.

Amack
03-08-2014, 05:05 PM
Crasher, we have 1 person.... 1 PERSON who believes the chat system was working previously... what does that tell you?
It should tell you that perception is not the end all be all.

What you are saying is very similar to what that 1 person says about the chat system.

If chat was working, it would not have been modified in the way that it was, it is that simple. If the shard system was working previously, it would not have changed, and if it changed unintentionally it would have been restored just as it was this past week during the hotfixes.

crasher
03-08-2014, 05:34 PM
Crasher, we have 1 person.... 1 PERSON who believes the chat system was working previously... what does that tell you?
It should tell you that perception is not the end all be all.

What you are saying is very similar to what that 1 person says about the chat system.

If chat was working, it would not have been modified in the way that it was, it is that simple. If the shard system was working previously, it would not have changed, and if it changed unintentionally it would have been restored just as it was this past week during the hotfixes.

Amack, My 3rd best friend in the whole world (of online TRION forums, but I digress....)
I respectfully submit 2 items for your perusal:

1.)"If the shard system was working previously, it would not have changed, and if it changed unintentionally it would have been restored just as it was this past week during the hotfixes."

2.)
07-23-2013 08:14 PM
Patch 1.025 - Patch Notes
We are happy to announce the upcoming patch 1.025.

DEFIANCE 1.025

- Challenges: Hotshots & Rampages: You should no longer get stuck after repeatedly suiciding (for example, during the Crystal Defense Hotshot)
- Fixed a rare crash that could occur during an Arkfall
- Fixed a bug where you would lose ammo swapping weapons in the current loadout when the ammo pool was full.

Both of those items are issues.
The item highlighted in "2.)" was broken again on 08-09-2013 in patch 1.027, and has not yet been fixed again.
I see zero reason, in light of the above statement "2.)" to assume that the items discussed in your statement highlighted in "1.)" is actually going to be fixed in the near term, and certainly not by the time DLC-4 goes live.

AND wish to point out that in spite of claimed ".... it would have been restored just as it was this past week during the hotfixes." it is still clearly broken as we speak.

Which does, kinda, if you think about it, put us exactly in the position I posited at the top of this thread.

As always, I remain your boon companion.
I trust I still hold a similar position on your friends list.

p.s.
That 'Chat System' comment/example you posted - while clever, is a red herring, and has nothing to do with this discussion.

Amack
03-08-2014, 05:55 PM
Crasher you are one of the few people here that actually has good arguments and I respect that very much.

I can not speak for Trion, all I can speak of is what I witness happening. I know the same applies for you as well.

When I encounter something like the shard system problem, I never believe it until I verify it with multiple clan members / friends, etc.

I am not the only person who has been watching their progress. I am one of the few who comes here and spends time trying to point out what is happening.

I do not know how long the shard system was hurting us, nor do I know how long ago you found the shard system to be working. My question to you is, how did you determine it was working properly?

The ammo swapping example, while aggravating, is not a good example because it is far from game breaking. My last Houston thread was pointing out a game breaking problem, and it was addressed in some way in less than 2 weeks. That cannot be argued with me. They are more concerned with game breaking issues than things like ammo missing and that is the way a game developer should always look at issues presented. The issues should always be prioritized appropriately and I see them doing that, or atleast they are trying and that is all I can ask.

Should I or anyone else here have to bring game breaking issues to their attention? Heck NO! However, that is the situation we find ourselves in and we can decide to help, or we can decide to stop playing.

crasher
03-08-2014, 05:59 PM
Crasher .........................

My question to you is, how did you determine it was working properly?
'Was working properly'?
As in, Dead shards are supposed to be the norm?

No, sharding was discussed in the beginning of the game on many forum and websites as an efficient way to keep people in populated dimensions together without ending up overpopulated. Also it was explained how populations were averaged over shards, and how shards were recombined when populations dropped.

1.) Because it started putting me into dead shards recently when it had not done so before to me or anyone of the people who I played with on a regular basis since April.

2.) The clear absence on the forums all along of people mentioning/discussing/whining/b*tching about dead shards as has been the topic of late, and the discussion of how it is affecting people's play and enjoyment.

While the ammo example may not be game breaking, it is a clear example of an issue that was important enough to be fixed once, clearly not understood as a game mechanic in conjunction with other mechanics by whoever was tasked with the fix, and then abandoned as a fixable issue in a most unprofessional display of defeat.

You eather gots the chops to fix you're own damned software, or you don't.
If you don't, 3 things come to mind:
1.) Why not?
2.) Who let it get to that point?
3.) Who let it get to that point without fixing the issue of it BEING at that point already, that we're even still discussing it?

I've said it before, me, and not a small number of people on this forum have been responsible for our own share of businesses, and some of them have been easily in the multi-million dollar range.
We didn't suffer fools gladly when they worked for us and jeopardized our names and assets.

TRION is huge compared to us?
Fine.
That don't mean they can lallygag and flounder about with no responsibility for production.
It means they have a tighter control over the daily doings, or they aint doing it by skill but by luck.

Are you trying to say they did it by luck, when we're trying to maintain that they did it by skill?

I love the game.
I'm begging TRION to please give me reasons to throw more money at them.

Are they listening, or not?

Amack
03-08-2014, 06:06 PM
That is where the perception comes into play. People were perceiving the game to be dead because they couldn't find anyone. This could have been going on forever and we would not know it, if people were not mentioning it because it was misperceived.

I noticed a big jump in posts regarding this issue after I created that last Houston thread because they then realized, hey there are people playing this game somewhere and I just can't get to them for some reason.

If for example they changed the sharding code to try and put you in the same shard with friends or clanmates, that could very well negatively affect people who are in dead clans, no clan at all, and/or have no one active on their friends list.

crasher
03-08-2014, 06:41 PM
That is where the perception comes into play. People were perceiving the game to be dead because they couldn't find anyone. This could have been going on forever and we would not know it, if people were not mentioning it because it was misperceived.

I noticed a big jump in posts regarding this issue after I created that last Houston thread because they then realized, hey there are people playing this game somewhere and I just can't get to them for some reason.

If for example they changed the sharding code to try and put you in the same shard with friends or clanmates, that could very well negatively affect people who are in dead clans, no clan at all, and/or have no one active on their friends list.

People mostly claimed the game was dieing because they didn't find the throngs that once teemed.
Some people resorted to hyperbole.

If they changed the sharding system, several questions come to mind:
1.) ANOTHER ninja change with no patch notes?
2.) ANOTHER issue with borked software that is swept under the rug, and pleas for information, help and reason for hope fall on deaf ears?
3.) Hey, hows about all thems people in clans who get stuck on the outside while maybe one person gets in to a break, or hows about them people who get disconnected?

Have you glanced at a calender, my friend?
It is now March -08
We are now slightly over 3 weeks from the first year anniversary of launch, with arguably a smaller population or players than were betatesting this program.

It aint rocket surgery. They didn't invent MMOs. They have an in-house MMO that's working, all they had to do was steal their own intellectual property rulebook and pie charts, and graphs to get it to work.

We would, at this point in time, NOT be discussing things in this manner if TRION people had come into THIS forum at almost ANY time in the passed 2 months to lay down some info on us and treat us as adults who were making a conscious decision about where to spend time and money.
And it's not as if we didn't beg them for month upon month upon month to treat us with respect.

The same can be said for all the other issues that we begged for info about, and received nothing for.

Am I stepping over the line by asking to be treated as an adult by a company that I've invested hundreds of dollars into?
A company that, I am on record as advocating for, I would pay an additional subscription fee to, to give me the services that I'm contracting for?

This is a 'Perception' problem?

You're lucky I don't come to Florida, with Big Jim, and make you and reb buy us beer.

Amack
03-08-2014, 06:52 PM
I'm not trying to argue with you Crasher. You are not wrong, and many things you say could not be more correct.

Case in point...

1.) ANOTHER ninja change with no patch notes?
2.) ANOTHER issue with borked software that is swept under the rug, and pleas for information, help and reason for hope fall on deaf ears?
3.) Hey, hows about all thems people in clans who get stuck on the outside while maybe one person gets in to a break, or hows about them people who get disconnected?

I don't particularly "like" the way that North Korea treats its own people... but I am resigned to the fact that I can do nothing about it and don't waste my time trying.

I don't particularly "like" the way that Trion treats its own players when it comes to Defiance... but I am resigned to the fact that I can do nothing about it and don't waste my time trying.

If North Korea and/or Trion wants their people to be happy, they will change their procedures, it is that simple.
I can't force either of them to make it so.

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 06:53 PM
As I've read through a few of the most recent posts in this thread, I'm reminded of that age old statement...

"Perception is reality."

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 06:55 PM
As I've read through a few of the most recent posts in this thread, I'm reminded of that age old statement...

"Perception is reality."

Damn straight Skippy.

Amack
03-08-2014, 06:57 PM
As I've read through a few of the most recent posts in this thread, I'm reminded of that age old statement...

"Perception is reality."

Perhaps that does apply to real life... but this online game, is far from real life...

If you are going to perceive things as reality, then your reality will be very distorted.

I can't see atoms, but I am sure they are there.

No one has sailed around the world yet... so that must mean it is flat.

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 06:58 PM
Perhaps that does apply to real life... but this online game, is far from real life...

Seriously... what color is the sky in your world? This has everything to do with real life. We're not trapped in the Matrix here, Neo.

Amack
03-08-2014, 07:05 PM
Seriously... what color is the sky in your world? This has everything to do with real life. We're not trapped in the Matrix here, Neo.

Read the edit.

I should ask you the same question, no?

Ignorance is no excuse for your reality.

N3gativeCr33p
03-08-2014, 07:07 PM
Read the edit.

Yeah, and you still make absolutely no sense.

Enjoy that Kool-Aid while there's still some left. I'm done trying to talk to someone who lacks common sense to begin with.

Buh bye.

Arsenic_Touch
03-08-2014, 07:11 PM
The vehicle disappearing problem is a symptom of overloaded shards, I am almost positive about this, but don't quote me on it. Once the shard system is properly setup and populated, hopefully (crosses fingers) it will fix the vehicles as well.



So tell me why vehicles disappear on the alpha client with only a few people testing it?

Amack
03-08-2014, 07:14 PM
So tell me why vehicles disappear on the alpha client with only a few people testing it?

Oh boy.. lol. If you want me to say that I don't know the exact cause then... I don't know the exact cause, do you feel better now?

I was simply stating that my vehicle disappears constantly when I play on the busy shard for whatever reason, yet in the past few weeks of playing on the quiet shards, it hasn't left me once.

I specifically said don't quote me on it since it was just my observation, but you did anyway, haha.


Yeah, and you still make absolutely no sense.

Enjoy that Kool-Aid while there's still some left. I'm done trying to talk to someone who lacks common sense to begin with.

Buh bye.

Maybe I have no common sense, but I do have something that was enough for me to figure out shards were spawning infinitely. That is good enough for me.

I find issues... serious issues... unlike bungee cords for example. Is that why I get treated this way? I think it is! Dats Otay...

crasher
03-08-2014, 07:25 PM
snip

I don't particularly "like" the way that Trion treats its own players when it comes to Defiance... but I am resigned to the fact that I can do nothing about it and don't waste my time trying.

If North Korea and/or Trion wants their people to be happy, they will change their procedures, it is that simple.
I can't force either of them to make it so.

If TRION wants my money, they can choose to listen to me or not, and accept the consequences of the path they take.

Do I tell TRION what to do?
No, of course not.

Does TRION know what I, and the tens of people who still play the game, want?
No, not without being told. (clearly they didn't have a clue when the majority of the people who were playing just stopped logging in without ever saying a thing about why. One can infer it was because of things conditions that were extant.)

Am I willing to speak once, hope for the best, and just shrug and quietly walk away from something that I like/enjoy?
Why should I let something I like/enjoy turn into something that even FEWER people like and enjoy with me, after multitudes of people already called it quits?

You/TRION want me to have no opinion, or to just shut up and take 'it', or maybe just quit?
Say the word.
Drive me away.
Pull my access.
Pull my access to the game.
This isn't a threat, I hold no power over anything but my own time and money.
And one fewer player will be there in the desolate wastes of a dead shard when that one other person is deciding to try and play or just log off because no one is on line.

A school of fish is made up of uncountable individual fish.
It's not impossible to run out of fish.
All you have to do is kill them just a little bit faster than they are replaced.

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 07:33 PM
My question is "was the above post productive?"

I vote yes.

I mean if we were voting.

Amack
03-08-2014, 07:33 PM
If I wanted you to go away Crasher, I sure as hell would not be here right now.

When you say I don't want you to have opinions, the American in me becomes very insulted.

When you say the "tens of people", it does not help your arguments since that number is so greatly under exaggerated.

How long have you been repeating the same thing about people leaving? I think the fact that this game still exists gets on your nerves sometimes. I will be the first to admit though, that is only my perception of it, and that my perception does not reflect reality very well does it?

crasher
03-08-2014, 07:43 PM
Snip....

I think the fact that this game still exists gets on your nerves sometimes. I will be the first to admit though, that is only my perception of it, and that my perception does not reflect reality very well does it?

Dude:
I love this game so much, you don't even know.

Sometimes I play this game in the middle of the night just to watch the sky, and listen to the wind, with the music playing in the background.

Sometimes I go to the New Freedom, just to watch what the devs and artists all came together to create.

I love watching the ground as I walk over it.
Watching the sunrise.
Watching an ArkBreak come crashing down.
Watching the sky during a night time Ark event.
Just watching a scrapper mongral is amazing.

Go to Head First crater, and dance with the skitts (after you kill all the warriors, first.)
Amazing.

This place is skruggin beautiful in so many ways.
I wish it would go on forever and everybody could see it.

I'm still willing to spend money on this game the way (I'm willing to bet) the next 25 new players combined wouldn't even consider.

Amack
03-08-2014, 07:46 PM
I know you love it, that was my point.
I love it too. I love it so much, that if I have nothing good to say, I don't say anything at all unless it is imperative to the survival of the game. I would hate to think of a potential player coming to these forums in order to try and determine whether they want to play or not, and then basing that decision on one of my negative posts.

Goodness man, I've been in the quiet shards trying to catch the "lost players" before they give up and logout. I hope you see the point I am trying to make. If people "love" this game so much, they should rethink the methods they use to support it.

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 07:47 PM
*snip*
that is only my perception of it, and that my perception does not reflect reality very well does it?

Mack, the point is that your perception is your reality.

Amack
03-08-2014, 07:52 PM
Mack, the point is that your perception is your reality.

No, the point is I am open minded enough to realize that my perception is rarely reality.

If I followed your line of thought, then I too would think Trion wants this game dead when they have proven to me otherwise.

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 07:53 PM
No, the point is I am open minded enough to realize that my perception is rarely reality.

That explains much my friend.

Amack
03-08-2014, 07:57 PM
That explains much my friend.

What are you trying to say exactly? It's okay I won't be offended.

I think you took my wording the wrong way.

People have continued to make mistakes throughout history, believing that their perception was reality.

Am I to understand that since Hitler perceived a perfect race of beings, that his perception was grounded in reality?

Since no one has sailed around the world, it must be flat?

Perhaps our Earth is the center of the universe because it looks that way from where I am standing?

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 08:01 PM
What are you trying to say exactly? It's okay I won't be offended.

I rarely ever "try" to say anything. I say it, or I don't.

Amack
03-08-2014, 08:13 PM
I rarly ever "try" to say anything. I say it, or I don't.

Well then... maybe Trion wants this game dead because they don't listen to us and make changes we would prefer not to make?

I mean... when a company replaces CEOs and what not, that wouldn't infer that the company is under some kind of turmoil, would it? Massive downsizing. Community reps leaving. Must I go on?

Oh screw it, as much as I would love to continue this conversation, I find it much more fun to actually play the game so that is what I am going to do.

crasher
03-08-2014, 08:13 PM
You each get a balloon.

Nobody is getting my thread closed over bad jokes.

Bonehead
03-08-2014, 08:25 PM
You each get a balloon.

Nobody is getting my thread closed over bad jokes.

I would like a red one please.
(if bad jokes are off the table, I am screwed)

Critical Errors
03-08-2014, 08:37 PM
Don't know anymore what the topic of this thread is.... Lol

I could be way off base here, but it seems to me that the vehicle ejection seat started around the same time as the vehicle respawn times were adjusted. Also, while I haven't pulled out a stopwatch to test it, the ejection seems to happen at the same time as a vehicle would despawn with no passenger's. That would lead me to believe that the vehicle is not registering quickly enough that a person is in it. Similar to how you often have to call down your vehicle twice after fast traveling. There is some sort of memory leak, latency delay in the vehicle spawn timer.... Someone tell them to try extending the timer out to see if that changes something... I never get a response from the dev team, so someone else try :p

StrikerF91
03-08-2014, 09:12 PM
Well as far as dead shards go I had just all of last week to play on a shards with other people because as of last night I am back on a dead ones havent been able to find player again. To make it even better today by my self I could not even play I had so much lag I could not do any thing. Ever time I got close to something to do Lag Lag Lag. Not to say when I was in a shard with players It was any better some lag at ark falls just about ever ark brake I tryed to enter I got kicked and had to log back in. Also when befor last week I spent over a month in dead shards I put in a ticket looking for help. I was told was there was no way to be put in a dead shard because there is only ONE shard for all of 360 na players and only ONE shard for 360 eu players. I guessing at this point this is bull and once again they doint want to say what is realy going on.

So at this point I think if they can come up with any other was to kill the game that will be in dlc 5

Holy Bahamut3
03-08-2014, 11:00 PM
Well as far as dead shards go I had just all of last week to play on a shards with other people because as of last night I am back on a dead ones havent been able to find player again. To make it even better today by my self I could not even play I had so much lag I could not do any thing. Ever time I got close to something to do Lag Lag Lag. Not to say when I was in a shard with players It was any better some lag at ark falls just about ever ark brake I tryed to enter I got kicked and had to log back in. Also when befor last week I spent over a month in dead shards I put in a ticket looking for help. I was told was there was no way to be put in a dead shard because there is only ONE shard for all of 360 na players and only ONE shard for 360 eu players. I guessing at this point this is bull and once again they doint want to say what is realy going on.

So at this point I think if they can come up with any other was to kill the game that will be in dlc 5

I think you may be right, the only "DLC" we liked thus far was Arkbreaker (DLC 2) and they broke that with weapon nerfs, disconnect issues, and now the anti-reward system about to be implemented. I can't wait to see what "DLC 5" will ruin next.

crasher
03-09-2014, 06:15 AM
Don't know anymore what the topic of this thread is.... Lol

I could be way off base here, but it seems to me that the vehicle ejection seat started around the same time as the vehicle respawn times were adjusted. Also, while I haven't pulled out a stopwatch to test it, the ejection seems to happen at the same time as a vehicle would despawn with no passenger's. That would lead me to believe that the vehicle is not registering quickly enough that a person is in it. Similar to how you often have to call down your vehicle twice after fast traveling. There is some sort of memory leak, latency delay in the vehicle spawn timer.... Someone tell them to try extending the timer out to see if that changes something... I never get a response from the dev team, so someone else try :p

I logged in fresh, was running around SanFran and lost 2 ATVs.
Both lost ATVs had traveled about a half kilometer to a kilometer when they <<poofed>>.

If the server can't register that quickly enough at 8AM EST on a Sunday morning, 3 hours after a server restart and on a client with a reasonably new log in, we gots issues.

A little while later I had several go wheel-less and airborne.
The last one was flying as usual with no wheels and got my 1080, again.
But this time I got a pic snapped off and posted.
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?147386-Oh-good-we-still-have-bloopers-to-take-pix-of.&p=1426629&viewfull=1#post1426629

Again, this was all within about an hour of login.

I've gone from server reboot to server reboot during the EL weekend with less issue.
Software gets better with patches, right?
Else why would they put the patches out, right?

Critical Errors
03-09-2014, 06:46 AM
I logged in fresh, was running around SanFran and lost 2 ATVs.
Both lost ATVs had traveled about a half kilometer to a kilometer when they <<poofed>>.

If the server can't register that quickly enough at 8AM EST on a Sunday morning, 3 hours after a server restart and on a client with a reasonably new log in, we gots issues.

A little while later I had several go wheel-less and airborne.
The last one was flying as usual with no wheels and got my 1080, again.
But this time I got a pic snapped off and posted.
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?147386-Oh-good-we-still-have-bloopers-to-take-pix-of.&p=1426629&viewfull=1#post1426629

Again, this was all within about an hour of login.

I've gone from server reboot to server reboot during the EL weekend with less issue.
Software gets better with patches, right?
Else why would they put the patches out, right?


Software gets better in other games, so yes, you'd think that would carry over to this game....

The fact that we get the ejection seat on low usage times and on dead servers shows that the bug is server side, and not client connection. Not sure if the wheels falling off a vehicle has happened to me, but maybe it's just an ATV thing. I drive my black challenger for the most part. I'll have to try out your hoverbike!

Manstan
03-09-2014, 07:39 AM
Sorry for skipping several pages of this thread. I was down yesterday so didn't get on much and missed most of this.

""Does the new scoring system in Gunslinger punish solo players?

We are actively punishing players who die a lot, so if you are a person who died a lot regardless of the
strategy, it will be a painful update for you and you will have to get good at surviving."

Yes and I stated at the time, a few times, that did not answer the question. And I really didn't like the tone of his voice when he said it. It almost felt insulting to a soloist player. Sort of like saying "you soloists die all the damned time anyway, so...".

If my character goes down it is usually from stubbornness, just staying up in the face of an enemy for too long, or getting my self stuck in an over whelming situation; "where did those other 9 guys come from O.O". Should I be penalized for dieing? Sure. Should I be penalized for being a soloist? HELL NO! In this game you are a soloist quit often out of necessity.

Now you will get no argument from me on the common issues everyone; well a majority of people, agree on. Thing is a lot of these issues never should have made it off the alpha server.

I used to do a lot of alpha and beta testing. But game developers have changed there philosophy over the years. Used to be you worked with the game devs to sort issues, find bugs, and discuss game play mechanics. And I mean in the trenches lol Now alpha testing is just bug crash testing and the players; quite often good, advise and opinions are ignored. I was in the alpha for this, logged hundreds of bugs, pointed out dozens of game mechanics issues, gave pages of suggestions. That made no difference. I knew the shape the game was in at release, I'd been slapped by the developers attitude during the alpha, and was not about to buy in at release.

So here it is almost a year later and what surprises me most about this game, it's still running. But you will have to hand it to the developers for consistency.
Yes, I love the game play, it's a real smooth TPS. But aside from the infected and the volge{?} there is nothing new to the game. {no I don't have any DLCs} This is pretty much the same game I was playing in alpha, but I don't feel obliged to pug shadow wars. ;)

I don't know, I get a bit worked up at times and have to go do something else. But with all the issues and aggravations with the game, the one thing that irritates me to no end is we have a good dozen old game warhorses on this forum, that know and agree on how to make this game great. With their advice and suggestions this could be a top ten MMO, but know one that can make those suggestions real in game is listening.

crasher
03-09-2014, 08:04 AM
Software gets better in other games, so yes, you'd think that would carry over to this game....

The fact that we get the ejection seat on low usage times and on dead servers shows that the bug is server side, and not client connection. Not sure if the wheels falling off a vehicle has happened to me, but maybe it's just an ATV thing. I drive my black challenger for the most part. I'll have to try out your hoverbike!

Never drive my Challenger... can't stand the sound of an over-revving engine with no oil :)

No wheels on a Duni:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?147386-Oh-good-we-still-have-bloopers-to-take-pix-of.&p=1408356&viewfull=1#post1408356

N3gativeCr33p
03-09-2014, 09:56 AM
The fact that we get the ejection seat on low usage times and on dead servers shows that the bug is server side, and not client connection. Not sure if the wheels falling off a vehicle has happened to me, but maybe it's just an ATV thing. I drive my black challenger for the most part. I'll have to try out your hoverbike!

Okay, then... so it's not just happening to me. Quite refreshing to hear this. :)

FWIW... random vehicle ejections happen to me, regardless of the vehicle I'm using... medi buggy, pink duni, red Challenger, etc etc.

Critical Errors
03-09-2014, 01:35 PM
Okay, then... so it's not just happening to me. Quite refreshing to hear this. :)

FWIW... random vehicle ejections happen to me, regardless of the vehicle I'm using... medi buggy, pink duni, red Challenger, etc etc.

Nope, not just you :D There are most likely less people this doesn't happen to than the number of people it does effect. I was just attempting to get someone to time the occurrence in relationship to unmanned vehicle despawn. I'm not at home this weekend, so I can't test that theory. Plus it's not always occurring, which makes it harder to test... But yes, the eject sequence is for all vehicles apparently.
Crasher and I werealsoo talking about vehicles that forget they need wheels, and that's why I was commenting about which vehicles it happens to. I want to fly around in my Nomad :p

Amack
03-09-2014, 01:41 PM
I just drove from IDR to Muir Processing (where there was an active incursion with many people). I can see my vehicle shimmer on each phase crossing. This shimmer resembles the same graphic as when your vehicles shields fully recharge, except you will have full vehicle shields when you see it. I had no ejection happen until I reached the area around Muir with the people and incursion. Perhaps I worded it wrong. A phase with many people in it can cause the vehicle to eject. If there are multiple phases with many people (as is the case right after reset, as well as the single shard on the test server) then it seems to me that it can happen almost anywhere in the shard.

Point being however, if they would more evenly distribute the players into the shards, it would also more evenly distribute the players into the phases in those shards. That isn't even a resolution to the actual problem, it would be more of a band-aid, and would not be guaranteed to eliminate the issue entirely.

Ashlocke
03-09-2014, 08:18 PM
No one has sailed around the world yet... so that must mean it is flat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_world_sailing_record

Just thought I'd link this, it's some interesting info.

drackiller
03-10-2014, 01:30 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_world_sailing_record

Just thought I'd link this, it's some interesting info.I think that Amak was just being sarcastic, i think:)

But let`s call the man is real name, the man who did the first circum navigation was called Fernão Magalhães.
He was a Portuguese sailor.

Amack
03-10-2014, 01:33 AM
I think that Amak was just being sarcastic, i think:)

But let`s call the man is real name, the man who did the first circum navigation was called Fernão Magalhães.
He was a Portuguese sailor.

Thx Drac, there are just some things I can't bring myself to respond to.

Ashlocke
03-10-2014, 07:37 AM
Thx Drac, there are just some things I can't bring myself to respond to.
The irony is that my reply was on my belief based on context clues that you "weren't" being sarcastic.
Your reply based on context clues indicates that your belief is that I "was" being sarcastic.

After that sinks in, my reply can be summed up with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zANvYB93u2g

And in case there is any doubt, all of the above is intended as comic relief and to be taken as humor.

Bonehead
03-10-2014, 07:40 AM
The irony is that my reply was on my belief based on context clues that you "weren't" being sarcastic.
Your reply based on context clues indicates that your belief is that I "was" being sarcastic.

After that sinks in, my reply can be summed up with:


I just think they needed a bigger boat.