PDA

View Full Version : Alien language in videos



blueplain
01-29-2013, 07:19 AM
Here are the alien languages form the videos, I've surrounded the separate videos with a black border. Get your deciphers going

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/defiancealienlanguage.png/

furious123uk
01-29-2013, 07:29 AM
how did you translate them

Myll_Erik
01-29-2013, 08:24 AM
Well done!

Tenz
01-29-2013, 10:40 AM
I knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i noticed that the VBI website have highlightable text that look like what they use for the cathian language

Urahara
01-29-2013, 10:44 AM
At the opening of defiance.com, there are a few seconds of a 6-symbol word. Unfortunantly, I couldn't translate all of it. I only could figure out a few. It was LOI_N_

If we already figured this out or you want to take a crack at it, please go ahead.

snippax
01-29-2013, 10:48 AM
Here's the loader if anyone wants to take a crack at it
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7923/defianceloader.gif

Urahara
01-29-2013, 10:49 AM
Here's the loader if anyone wants to take a crack at it
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7923/defianceloader.gif

That fourth symbol is still a mystery to me D:

Solid Fox18
01-29-2013, 10:53 AM
i knew those symbols were for the ark hunt

Halcyon
01-29-2013, 10:59 AM
I bet there are codes hidden in the language.. how else would they be able to hide so many under our eyes? Like this picture has the language and has 6 letter/numbers, unless it says Access.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/550826_555383907808989_592474720_n.jpg

snippax
01-29-2013, 11:03 AM
At the opening of defiance.com, there are a few seconds of a 6-symbol word. Unfortunantly, I couldn't translate all of it. I only could figure out a few. It was LOI_N_

If we already figured this out or you want to take a crack at it, please go ahead.

I think that the fourth one is a vowel because in this language from what I've noticed is that only the vowels have any markings in that very center hexagon. Then again, it could be a number but I don't think we have any references for what the numbers look like yet.

Elrian
01-29-2013, 11:05 AM
I bet there will be codes in-game as well during next Beta weekend.

snippax
01-29-2013, 11:09 AM
I bet there are codes hidden in the language.. how else would they be able to hide so many under our eyes? Like this picture has the language and has 6 letter/numbers, unless it says Access.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/550826_555383907808989_592474720_n.jpg

2 _ _ _ _ _ from what I can tell so it certainly doesn't say Access.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8729/languages.png was an image provided yesterday by someone.

FoolishLobster
01-29-2013, 11:31 AM
I think that the fourth one is a vowel because in this language from what I've noticed is that only the vowels have any markings in that very center hexagon. Then again, it could be a number but I don't think we have any references for what the numbers look like yet.

I got LOE_NR. Although that E might be something else, it's a little off from the E from the the rest of the symbols on the bottom of the image. That blank space I also thought was a Y, since it's the only letter that we haven't seen and how Y is sometimes a vowel or whatever.

Urahara
01-29-2013, 11:42 AM
Ok guys, I MAY have figured out something very important...

Now hear me out...

Vowels and consenants can sometimes be combined.

Ok now before you think this is dumb let me explain.

Using the picture posted above of the pharmacy, I tried to translate the code directly above the red text.

I believe it says 'Pharmacy'.

Using this pic: http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8729/languages.png

... I was able to try and figure out the word.

So, first letter is easily seen as a P, but the second letter is not on the list. It has marks on the inside of the inner circle like vowels do. So, since I believed the word was pharmacy, I looked for the H. Sure enough, it looks exactly like the symbol, only without the marks in the inner circle. However, the letter A has the exact same marks in the inner circle.

So, by combining the two, I can get that second symbol as a 'HA'. I believed this was a coincidence, but as a kept going, using the same technique, it worked every time. Pretty soon I got the word 'Pharmac', but since I don't know what the last letter it, and we don't know what 'Y' is, I'm guessing that the last symbol is a 'Y'.

Yea, it's a long-shot, but damn does it work. You guys think this is true?

CarpeJugulum
01-29-2013, 11:51 AM
That sounds really interesting. The problem is the best source of the language I've found is the VBI intro (http://www.youtube.com/embed/MESfXWP9l2Q?autoplay=1), which doesn't follow that rule. I'll try deciphering the text on the previous page with it, see what I get.

Urahara
01-29-2013, 11:53 AM
That sounds really interesting. The problem is the best source of the language I've found is the VBI intro (http://www.youtube.com/embed/MESfXWP9l2Q?autoplay=1), which doesn't follow that rule. I'll try deciphering the text on the previous page with it, see what I get.

True, I still don't know the full rule behind when the vowel gets merged or when it doesn't. That pharmacy pic is the only case I have ever seen anything like that, as well as the loading screen at defiance.com. Still, I'm pretty confident in my find.

FOLTHEON
01-29-2013, 11:59 AM
Here is Grant Bowler's name in Castithan, if that helps. The picture is from Facebook.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/534662_562931333720913_2091232936_n.jpg

SergeantMH
01-29-2013, 12:00 PM
have you checked this pic at the bottom:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130129/orwngupe.jpg

CarpeJugulum
01-29-2013, 12:09 PM
True, I still don't know the full rule behind when the vowel gets merged or when it doesn't. That pharmacy pic is the only case I have ever seen anything like that, as well as the loading screen at defiance.com. Still, I'm pretty confident in my find.

I think I've cracked it. I think that it can be the way you said, but it doesn't have to be. If a vowel's by itself then it just goes in the funny A frame type thing (first two letters in pharmacy picture). The direction of the insert in the middle indicates which vowel. Since we don't have to translate back, it doesn't really matter when it does.

The picture of a workshop above me: I think, from a quick translation, the text reads "defiance" in all languages.

Edit: I had a look at the images in the OP, and got IRL(e/a)V()()(e/a)()()(e/a) for the longest chain. It's a bit blurred, so I can't be sure on the (e/a). The ones I can't assign at all are almost certainly numbers. The most obvious option would be 36 and 26 (number of lines).

The shorter one gives ()()()()I (letter). I don't have a reference for the letter, and the first four are probably numbers.

Feel free to check these, I may have gotten them wrong.

Khanjure
01-29-2013, 12:25 PM
Second row is definitely Pharmacy P - HA - R - MA - C - Y

ItISLupus
01-29-2013, 12:33 PM
Ok guys, I MAY have figured out something very important...

Now hear me out...

Vowels and consenants can sometimes be combined.

Ok now before you think this is dumb let me explain.

Using the picture posted above of the pharmacy, I tried to translate the code directly above the red text.

I believe it says 'Pharmacy'.

Using this pic: http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8729/languages.png

... I was able to try and figure out the word.

So, first letter is easily seen as a P, but the second letter is not on the list. It has marks on the inside of the inner circle like vowels do. So, since I believed the word was pharmacy, I looked for the H. Sure enough, it looks exactly like the symbol, only without the marks in the inner circle. However, the letter A has the exact same marks in the inner circle.

So, by combining the two, I can get that second symbol as a 'HA'. I believed this was a coincidence, but as a kept going, using the same technique, it worked every time. Pretty soon I got the word 'Pharmac', but since I don't know what the last letter it, and we don't know what 'Y' is, I'm guessing that the last symbol is a 'Y'.

Yea, it's a long-shot, but damn does it work. You guys think this is true?

Figured out the animation on the Defiance sight. It says "Loading"

using your method

EDIT: maybe not, looked over it again and that third symbol is a mix between A and E, but the rest stand up to inspection

Khanjure
01-29-2013, 12:40 PM
that fourth symbol is still a mystery to me d:

l - o - a - di - n -g ?

CarpeJugulum
01-29-2013, 12:50 PM
I made a dictionary for the hex language here (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/defiancehexdictionary.png/). Should be easier to use than the other picture, since it's alphabetical. Only letters missing are x, j and z.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/677/defiancehexdictionary.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/defiancehexdictionary.png/)

Edit: Be really careful, some of the letters are extraordinarily similar. Look at the bit on the right for small differences.

Urahara
01-29-2013, 01:19 PM
I made a dictionary for the hex language here (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/defiancehexdictionary.png/). Should be easier to use than the other picture, since it's alphabetical. Only letters missing are x, j and z.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/677/defiancehexdictionary.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/defiancehexdictionary.png/)

Edit: Be really careful, some of the letters are extraordinarily similar. Look at the bit on the right for small differences.
Thanks. It was rather annoying going through that mess of a list and only finding the letters through full words

Urahara
01-29-2013, 01:22 PM
Figured out the animation on the Defiance sight. It says "Loading"

using your method

EDIT: maybe not, looked over it again and that third symbol is a mix between A and E, but the rest stand up to inspection

Yea, it gets pretty close, but there are a few letters off. (Cant say for sure though. Its so confusing) Thanks for trying though.

CarpeJugulum
01-29-2013, 01:37 PM
Just a little thing before I go, if you translate the text above "pharmacy" it reads "Dr Uan()an". Presumably the blank's one of the three unknowns.

CarpeJugulum
01-29-2013, 09:40 PM
Just to pick this back up, the "castithan" or whatever it is on the sign reads _ _ RGC _ . Does anyone have any other references with more text? Given the form and the letters it seems pretty certain this is a code. Actual words with that in the middle are pretty limited. I got those letters from the Grant Bowler chair and the workshop picture.

Edit: the long curly text in the OP apparently reads 7a24sez. How useful... And the short one is 090za.

Edit2: the hex text reads, left box down then right box:
(a/e)s(n/?)()()(a/e)(?)(a/e)
(a/e)(?)s(n/?)L()()(a/e)(?)
e(n/?)L(a/e)s()()(a/e)()()(a/e)
() represents what are probably numbers.
(n/?) I'm pretty sure is n, but could be something else.
(a/e) is that weird symbol that looks like a combo of the two
(?) is an unknown letter

Edit3: and finally the loader:
L(u/o)(a/e)(v/?)(a/e)(n/?)(w/?)
Same notation as previous.

Is that every clear piece of text we have so far? I could really do with a few more comparisons between the text and English, or even between languages. The hex language in particular is insanely fiddly, and I'd like to be sure I have it right.

The (a/e) and (u/o) combos are strange. Anyone have any ideas? One I could write off as blurred graphics, but two is a bit more strange.

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 12:37 AM
have you checked this pic at the bottom:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130129/orwngupe.jpg

all three languages equate to defiance: specifically the Indojisnen (HEX) language symbols break out as DE FI A N CE

I have been working on the Indojisnen language and how it combines symbols with certain consonant/vowel combinations... Interesting indeed...

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:05 AM
Just a little thing before I go, if you translate the text above "pharmacy" it reads "Dr Uan()an". Presumably the blank's one of the three unknowns.

I believe the second symbol is an N not an R (typo maybe?)... I got:

D N U A N ?A N

The ?A is a combination of a letter I dont have yet and an A (JA, XA, ZA) <--- only letters I dont have yet... I think

Mateutek
01-30-2013, 03:38 AM
http://irathient.cwahi.net/ here is the translator for irathient, maybe i will later add Indojisnen if i have good language ref.

blueplain
01-30-2013, 09:17 AM
has anyone confirmed any of these translations? there are multiple this symbol is this letter links

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 09:52 AM
has anyone confirmed any of these translations? there are multiple this symbol is this letter links

The Indojisnen translation is confirmed :)

Mateutek
01-30-2013, 10:09 AM
The Indojisnen translation is confirmed :)

Ok, so can anyone can pack it ? I will try to make font out of it and add it to translator

CarpeJugulum
01-30-2013, 11:56 AM
I believe the second symbol is an N not an R (typo maybe?)... I got:

D N U A N ?A N

The ?A is a combination of a letter I dont have yet and an A (JA, XA, ZA) <--- only letters I dont have yet... I think

Thanks for spotting that. I translated the first bit earlier, and "Dr" made so much sense I didn't bother checking it. I agree with your other bit.

Edit: There's a ton of this text in the mutants video, but it's really unclear. I'll see if I can read it, but it'll be difficult.

Also, it would be really good if someone could crack the numbers. That's mainly what's holding us back now.

CarpeJugulum
01-30-2013, 12:38 PM
I found another picture and had a go at translating it:
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7771/hexcafe.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/hexcafe.png/)

We're definitely still missing something.

Edit: I may have missassigned some of the vowels, or been overly confident in my assignment. I think the "i" at the bottom could also be an (e/i) combination.

Edit2: Found this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lLYZHquaDtg) in another thread. Haven't watched it in it's entirety, but it does explain the numbers and provide a little confirmation on what we have. Still doesn't explain why we can't translate anything properly though... Wait, if the languages are intended to be spoken, it does seem possible that things wont translate, since in the thread I found that video in (here (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?145-Castithan-language)) it makes the point that the languages are also different when spoken. Would also explain the weird vowel combinations.

Edit3: Apparently numbers are easy. Number of lines in outer hex = units, number around the centre in inner = tens. Note that the vertical line in the inner doesn't count, so a line in the top right corner = 1, bottom right = 2, bottom left =3, top left = 4. That's how I read it anyway.

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:04 PM
Thanks for spotting that. I translated the first bit earlier, and "Dr" made so much sense I didn't bother checking it. I agree with your other bit.

Edit: There's a ton of this text in the mutants video, but it's really unclear. I'll see if I can read it, but it'll be difficult.

Also, it would be really good if someone could crack the numbers. That's mainly what's holding us back now.

I have the numbers 1 thru 7 cracked, give me some time and I will upload my drawings on what I have cracked.

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:06 PM
I found another picture and had a go at translating it:
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7771/hexcafe.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/hexcafe.png/)

We're definitely still missing something.

Edit: I may have missassigned some of the vowels, or been overly confident in my assignment. I think the "i" at the bottom could also be an (e/i) combination.

Edit2: Found this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lLYZHquaDtg) in another thread. Haven't watched it in it's entirety, but it does explain the numbers and provide a little confirmation on what we have. Still doesn't explain why we can't translate anything properly though... Wait, if the languages are intended to be spoken, it does seem possible that things wont translate, since in the thread I found that video in (here (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?145-Castithan-language)) it makes the point that the languages are also different when spoken. Would also explain the weird vowel combinations.

Everything else has been translating letter for letter just fine, I think this particular Menu image is intended to be translated as spoken in Indojisnen.

CarpeJugulum
01-30-2013, 01:23 PM
Everything else has been translating letter for letter just fine, I think this particular Menu image is intended to be translated as spoken in Indojisnen.

Because of the weird vowel symbols, the loading thing and a couple of the things from trailers also don't translate.

I just noticed the OP doesn't have everything from the trailers, there's a couple more. Here's all I have:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9240/defiancelanguages.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/defiancelanguages.png/)

I tried the obvious combinations for the 6 symbol ones (by my methods), but someone else might have better luck.

Edit: as an example of my numbering, in the first (five symbol) one, the numbers go 31(letter)246. The 3 is from the tens digit and the 1 is the units of the first number.

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:31 PM
Because of the weird vowel symbols, the loading thing and a couple of the things from trailers also don't translate.

I just noticed the OP doesn't have everything from the trailers, there's a couple more. Here's all I have:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9240/defiancelanguages.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/defiancelanguages.png/)

I tried the obvious combinations for the 6 symbol ones (by my methods), but someone else might have better luck.

Well the Irathient is easy, comes out to:

090ZA

7A246SEZ

ESx72ZS (not pictured but was in video)

The vowel combinations in Indojisnen is what gets me... not sure if which vowel goes first AE or EA, IE or EI, OU or UO. I am making the assumption that they follow AEIOU order of precedence...

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:36 PM
I tried the obvious combinations for the 6 symbol ones (by my methods), but someone else might have better luck.

Edit: as an example of my numbering, in the first (five symbol) one, the numbers go 31(letter)246. The 3 is from the tens digit and the 1 is the units of the first number.

I dont think its 31, I believe it is 7 due to the Irathient 7A246, this Indojisnen would be 7AE246

too similar to be coincidence

CarpeJugulum
01-30-2013, 01:38 PM
I dont think its 31, I believe it is 7 due to the Irathient 7A246, this Indojisnen would be 7AE246

too similar to be coincidence

Good point. Have you looked at the video though, it shows the same centre symbol with 5 lines around the outside as 35.

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:41 PM
Good point. Have you looked at the video though, it shows the same centre symbol with 5 lines around the outside as 35.

Not sure what you mean can you post a pic?

CarpeJugulum
01-30-2013, 01:47 PM
Not sure what you mean can you post a pic?

Here:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4310/number.bmp (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/38/number.bmp/)

I linked the video this is from just under the cafe picture.

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:52 PM
nice, very interesting, this does confirm all my other consonant/vowel finds though

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 01:52 PM
where is this video found?

CarpeJugulum
01-30-2013, 01:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lLYZHquaDtg

May as well just drop it in here, it'd be useful to have a quick reference.

Khanjure
01-30-2013, 03:06 PM
Please excuse my crude drawings because I am at work... This is what I have for the Indojisnen (HEX) language so far:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_pkQfWV2zinamNEVUZtaUhkYmc/edit?pli=1

The letter combinations are pretty interesting and seem simple enough except when two vowels are involved, then I am not sure which vowel comes first.

Need more eyes to help me crack the rest. I do believe that some of our missing Arkfall codes are written as Alien languages.

CarpeJugulum
01-30-2013, 05:38 PM
Please excuse my crude drawings because I am at work... This is what I have for the Indojisnen (HEX) language so far:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_pkQfWV2zinamNEVUZtaUhkYmc/edit?pli=1

The letter combinations are pretty interesting and seem simple enough except when two vowels are involved, then I am not sure which vowel comes first.

Need more eyes to help me crack the rest. I do believe that some of our missing Arkfall codes are written as Alien languages.

Very nice, much easier to read than mine. Also, just had a brainwave on numbers. What if instead of the middle being the tens digit or representing a higher number by itself, it's a multiplier? So the 35 symbol works out as 7*5=35, and the symbol with one outside line from the other trailer is 7*1=7

As an example, these are what would be 14, 21 and 28, in that order:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4567/numbersh.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/numbersh.png/)

Your's was amazing artwork compared to my paint skills, I think. Hopefully you can see my point.

Edit: I've intentionally stuck with 7, since we can't confirm the other numbers yet.

Edit2: guess we transfer this dicussion to the Indojisnen thread, have a look there. I now think it's base 7.

Khanjure
01-31-2013, 01:12 AM
Very nice, much easier to read than mine. Also, just had a brainwave on numbers. What if instead of the middle being the tens digit or representing a higher number by itself, it's a multiplier? So the 35 symbol works out as 7*5=35, and the symbol with one outside line from the other trailer is 7*1=7

As an example, these are what would be 14, 21 and 28, in that order:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4567/numbersh.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/numbersh.png/)

Your's was amazing artwork compared to my paint skills, I think. Hopefully you can see my point.

Edit: I've intentionally stuck with 7, since we can't confirm the other numbers yet.

Edit2: guess we transfer this dicussion to the Indojisnen thread, have a look there. I now think it's base 7.

Got it! It is a multiplier! If you add another line going clockwise in the center Hex then that would be 8 multiplied by however many lines are in the outer Hex and so forth up to 10. It seems to work out... this must be the answer :) Muahahaha

JustinD92
01-31-2013, 01:36 AM
Good job guys. Really impressed keep up the hunting.

Erleawen
01-31-2013, 08:22 AM
I just find a new picture to help, but not really good when zooming in...
http://media-cache-ec2.pinterest.com/originals/ae/7e/b6/ae7eb6b903f55ba0f6dbdb0709c007b3.jpg

CarpeJugulum
01-31-2013, 12:08 PM
Got it! It is a multiplier! If you add another line going clockwise in the center Hex then that would be 8 multiplied by however many lines are in the outer Hex and so forth up to 10. It seems to work out... this must be the answer :) Muahahaha

Not quite, I don't think. Read my post in the other thread for full details, but it being base 7 makes much more sense. Makes for a much more elegant solution, particularly as there's one unidentified symbol in the mutants trailer which I believe is a 0 (one line, pointing top left). Mathematically, a different base means that the number system is much "neater'. A number can be easily defined, and there is only one correct definition for a number. For example, if it was a multiplier, 40 would have two symbols (8*5 and 4*10). That's not a good way to run a number or language system, and I don't believe they'd have set it up that way.

Khanjure
01-31-2013, 10:49 PM
Here's the loader if anyone wants to take a crack at it
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7923/defianceloader.gif

Well it definitely say loading according to source code:
<img src="/en/series/sites/defiance/themes/defiance/images/Defiance_loader.gif" width="185" height="40" alt="Loading..."></div>

But it doesn't translate letter for letter

Smitch
01-31-2013, 11:22 PM
Not all of these characters 'match up' to an English 26 letter alphabet. The Castithan alphabet from what I have seen is completely nuts with a large grid of characters. What you are seeing with some of these is what happens with the font is directly used in English characters, and then the font swapped directly to one of the other languages. It means nothing in that language. The chair is an excellent example of that, where the name has been typed out in English, and then the font just swapped. Looks good I readily admit! But doesn't translate to anything in particular. Others have been typed in the specified font, and because some combinations end up as one character, more weird things can happen from there. Both Castithan & Irathient are apparently very happy to turn 4 key presses into 2 'letters' in their respective languages.

Some of these signs and posters are actually in a different (constructed) language with it's own words, grammar & writing style. Which does not necessarily have the same sounds, but currently has to be typed on the same keyboard. Going in reverse you might find the English equivalent of those key presses is xo#pjq9e{- which obviously makes no sense in either language. >.<

Once more information is available on the languages themselves, these signs will probably make *cough* perfect sense...To those who spend the time on them. ^.^

CarpeJugulum
01-31-2013, 11:36 PM
Well it definitely say loading according to source code:
<img src="/en/series/sites/defiance/themes/defiance/images/Defiance_loader.gif" width="185" height="40" alt="Loading..."></div>

But it doesn't translate letter for letter

I'm going to go with it actually reads loading in Indojisnen, not just with a swapped alphabet. Given that it includes the vowel combos, which we know don't translate to English properly, it makes sense.

SyberSmoke
02-01-2013, 12:58 AM
After reading through this I have come to wonder if the language is more of an English phonetic then the 26 letter English. Phonetics combines and omits letters into sounds. Could the Hex language do this sort of thing selectively. So Loading will be short but readable, but longer words have their sounds combined into single symbols.

So has there been any comparison of the Hex language to the phonetic alphabet for some of the harder to figure out vowel combinations?

Smitch
02-01-2013, 01:41 AM
After reading through this I have come to wonder if the language is more of an English phonetic then the 26 letter English. Phonetics combines and omits letters into sounds. Could the Hex language do this sort of thing selectively. So Loading will be short but readable, but longer words have their sounds combined into single symbols.

So has there been any comparison of the Hex language to the phonetic alphabet for some of the harder to figure out vowel combinations?

There is VERY little information about any of these languages at the moment. I think for Castithan there are like 6 words (one of which is the Castithan pronunciation of the English "Defiance") as well as 2 sentences that I don't believe have been broken down into it's components yet... I am also not aware of any breakdown of the scripts short of what has gone on here, which may or may not be accurate. There is more information on how the writing system works on a standard US keyboard here:
http://dedalvs.tumblr.com/post/41904324390/hi-david-i-think-your-work-is-just-amazing-i-was

Again, no really useful information in there as to how to *use* or translate script, just what it might look like if you just typed away in English on a keyboard using that font.

blueplain
02-01-2013, 02:59 AM
I think that the language more represents the Egyptian language of the hieroglyphics since it seems to be the sounds of syllables stringed together. It took them many years to translate the Egyptian language because of this, So I think you should try that format

SyberSmoke
02-01-2013, 03:02 PM
There is VERY little information about any of these languages at the moment. I think for Castithan there are like 6 words (one of which is the Castithan pronunciation of the English "Defiance") as well as 2 sentences that I don't believe have been broken down into it's components yet... I am also not aware of any breakdown of the scripts short of what has gone on here, which may or may not be accurate. There is more information on how the writing system works on a standard US keyboard here:
http://dedalvs.tumblr.com/post/41904324390/hi-david-i-think-your-work-is-just-amazing-i-was

Again, no really useful information in there as to how to *use* or translate script, just what it might look like if you just typed away in English on a keyboard using that font.

Well as I said, the QWERTY keyboard is not really designed to consider phonetic spelling since in some forms of phonetics there is no C, just K. So Cat would be Kat. It would also change the context of symbols based on the phonetic sound. This appears to also be the case as they combine vowels with consonants to make sounds instead of distinct letters.

Kartur
02-01-2013, 03:27 PM
Using http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8729/languages.png the loading screen doesn't come out as "LOADING" which makes a difference for code hunters from what I can tell so far its "LU??NR" could be wrong but worth looking into I believe.

CarpeJugulum
02-01-2013, 03:55 PM
Using http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8729/languages.png the loading screen doesn't come out as "LOADING" which makes a difference for code hunters from what I can tell so far its "LU??NR" could be wrong but worth looking into I believe.

It also has characters which don't translate directly into English, and clearly has more than 6 characters. It's not useful.

SyberSmoke
02-01-2013, 04:30 PM
Using http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8729/languages.png the loading screen doesn't come out as "LOADING" which makes a difference for code hunters from what I can tell so far its "LU??NR" could be wrong but worth looking into I believe.

If I am reading the symbols right...may be a literal translation is not really possible. If the center Hex represents a vowel, and the exterior hex represents a consonant then really...the "loading" symbols is really nine letters and not six.

So if you consider it this way, then each vowel/consonant combination is not a literal interpretation but instead a representation of a sound...like Pa or Om. That is of coarse assuming that those are the rules to the language as they have been discussed in this thread.

The problem I am seeing is that people are trying to translate the text quite literally into the 26 character English alphabet with out considering that many languages in the world are very different them selves. Like trying to learn Deutsche, the majority of the German language is based on phonetic structure and sounds. We may need to think on a far broader level to translate what is being written in the hex language.

Smitch
02-01-2013, 04:52 PM
Are we sure that the first character is an L? Looking at the sheet thing an L has a triangle with an arc under it on both the left & right side. This looks icon looks like it has a triangle with an arc under it on the left, but two arcs on the right hand side.

SyberSmoke
02-01-2013, 05:24 PM
Are we sure that the first character is an L? Looking at the sheet thing an L has a triangle with an arc under it on both the left & right side. This looks icon looks like it has a triangle with an arc under it on the left, but two arcs on the right hand side.

I would also like to suggest that once again, this may be loading in their spoken language. But since they are an alien race, their pronunciation of loading may be very different. The assumption has been that there is a direct translation...but may be the direct translation is more akin to "Cup" in German: "Tasse".

This may be more a matter of needing to know the written and spoken word and translating it to English through that path.

Phaius
02-01-2013, 10:06 PM
Interesting that this thread is all about cracking a code, which isn't there. I think it's pretty clear that we are not dealing with a set of three alphabets which are all ciphers for the English version of the Latin alphabet. Why would they bother hiring a linguist to do all of that for a cipher when their art team could do something like that?

Mr. Peterson himself said that Indogene is more of a syllabary. Castithan is an abugida. He says it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYZHquaDtg

What's true of course is that the scripts are being used as alphabets, but that's not how they really work. Smitch pointed out that what has been written in these scripts for promotional materials would make no sense in the languages. It's like using Katakana to write out English. To the Japanese it would make no sense at all.

I think we need to separate what the marketing teams are doing from the way the languages are actually used. There's really no code here, but I think the way they are being used is leading you all astray. I get why they've done it but it's kind of tricking everyone into thinking this is some kind of grand cipher to be cracked. The simple answer is, they're not being used as intended, and the way they should be used isn't as complex as being presented here.

SyberSmoke
02-01-2013, 11:22 PM
In which case we will not know what the actual use will be until they start teaching classes about it...like they do for Klingon or Elvish from Tolkien's universe.

Smitch
02-01-2013, 11:35 PM
In which case we will not know what the actual use will be until they start teaching classes about it...like they do for Klingon or Elvish from Tolkien's universe.

There is unlikely to be 'official' classes as such. Like Na'vi & Dothraki (Avatar & Game of Thrones - Incidentally, David J Peterson created Dothraki as well) are deconstructed & figured out by fans with input from their creators. This is what I intend to be a part of with at least one of these languages. I am quite looking forward to getting more information (even though I'm no linguist...but everyone has to have a hobby. ^.^) so we can really begin looking into them and seeing how they work. :D

Phaius
02-02-2013, 05:00 PM
Yes, unless they release charts of the writing systems and explain how they are written, it's like trying to figure out how to properly write Japanese without instruction or reference materials. I'm pretty sure if they allow Mr. Peterson to release information on how to use the systems he will, because he is quite active in helping people out with Dothraki.

I think it would be a mistake for the show to not release these materials, because as we see from Tolkien, Star Trek, and Game of Thrones, the fans absolutely love this kind of stuff.

Kaoslion
02-02-2013, 05:06 PM
I stole this off another forum poster

Phaius
02-02-2013, 05:09 PM
I'd also like to add:

I mentioned Castithan is an abugida. This explains why the chart you see in the video looks like an insane number of glyphs. Abugidas appear that way but they all work in a very simple way: You have base glyphs which generally represent a consonant plus vowel. To change the vowel on the glyph, you mark it with a special diacritic that changes the vowel sound. I'm seeing from Mr. Peterson's examples that he also did something the Indian scripts do (they are also Abugidas), that is, diphthongs (like the sound of y in the word "my") have collapsed into monophthongs (single vowels). So, he wrote rai-djo, but it is pronounced as "rejo" (reh-joh).

But, without further information, it's unclear if he also followed an indic model by using consonant conjuncts in the way that Devanagari does. That is, part of the initial consonant in the consonant cluster is attached to the glyph that contains the second consonant. He might have also used a simpler method where he used a vowel killer to knock off the inherent vowel in the glyph to turn it into a consonant only. The "Devanagari method" would mean the script is very complex, but the latter method would be simpler.

If this is confusing, go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida

Leeci
02-03-2013, 12:16 AM
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/550826_555383907808989_592474720_n.jpg

I think the red writing may be an arkfall code. It is six characters and stands out from the rest of the sign. Additionally, because the language is an abugida the fact there are six distinct characters leads me to further believe it's an arkfall code. Six characters that appear to translate as 2 _ R L _ _. I'm not sure about the L but I'm pretty positive the R is accurate when looking at the picture of the Grant Bowler's production chair (Post #18).

edit: After watching the video 'Defiance - Presentation on creating alien languages' I believe the last character to be either F or I based on the translation of the word 'defiance', more specifically the sound "fie", at 10:35. It appears F and I have been joined into a single character so I can't tell which one is on the sign.

The letters A and N always appear to be drawn together, in both languages. Looking at posts #17 and #18 and comparing the words "Grant" and "Defiance" they have the same figure that corresponds to "AN". Also, assuming the word "defiance" in the picture in post 18 is written in Castithan and Irathient letters you can see that the letters "an" are drawn together and appear to correspond to what they would look like separately. More or less.

All just assumptions, speculation at best, and not terribly helpful for what most people are working on. But that is what I have come up with.

edit: in hindsight I don't believe "L" is not the proper translation for that character on the sign.

Tyren3402
02-03-2013, 02:14 AM
I think the red writing may be an arkfall code. It is six characters and stands out from the rest of the sign. Additionally, because the language is an abugida the fact there are six distinct characters leads me to further believe it's an arkfall code. Six characters that appear to translate as 2 _ R L _ _. I'm not sure about the L but I'm pretty positive the R is accurate when looking at the picture of the Grant Bowler's production chair (Post #18).

edit: After watching the video 'Defiance - Presentation on creating alien languages' I believe the last character to be either F or I based on the translation of the word 'defiance', more specifically the sound "fie", at 10:35. It appears F and I have been joined into a single character so I can't tell which one is on the sign.

The letters A and N always appear to be drawn together, in both languages. Looking at posts #17 and #18 and comparing the words "Grant" and "Defiance" they have the same figure that corresponds to "AN". Also, assuming the word "defiance" in the picture in post 18 is written in Castithan and Irathient letters you can see that the letters "an" are drawn together and appear to correspond to what they would look like separately. More or less.

All just assumptions, speculation at best, and not terribly helpful for what most people are working on. But that is what I have come up with.

edit: in hindsight I don't believe "L" is not the proper translation for that character on the sign.

Has anyone made any progress on the red letters in the photo above. Or is there a translator being put together?

Smitch
02-03-2013, 04:37 AM
Has anyone made any progress on the red letters in the photo above. Or is there a translator being put together?

I've been working on a GIMP layered Indojisen glyph, where you can show/hide layers to create any of the known glyphs. After that I was planning on sinking myself into Castithan. >.<

Dead_Phoenix
02-03-2013, 05:53 AM
you may be slightly over looking at image. only reason i say that is every code we have had has been digitally entered onto the picture. that is a live picture of a bilboard in the tv show. they wouldnt put an ark code there, for a start that piece of scenery has would of been made months ago. if not longer, well before they started any of this.

not saying dont look, just i wouldnt spend much time on it.

Iluvatar
02-03-2013, 06:15 AM
Okay so from what I can see, Indo consists of 4 types of letters.
Obviously numbers (which should be working by a 7-digit algorithm, except the 35 example doesn't fit my current model).
Vowels, which except from E are the "rockets" which means pure vowel, and they are governed by whatever is in the center. Composed of a "string" and/or "bubbles".
Consonants, which are governed by the exterior hex, and composes of lines "bubbles" and "spikes" as well as a top or bottom feature or both.
All of these are relatively comparable to our alphabetic system and are used in many (probably human) translations.
However, a fourth and most likely what the Indogen would use among themselves, character exists, which is basically a mix of a consonant exterior and a vowel interior. So far I've only found them in the consonant-vowel order (e.g. ba, pa, me) and not reversed (e.g. ab, ap, em) but it is not unlikely that this could also exist. Rather, I think they simply add a consonant character after the vowel or "sound" character if needed.

Anyway, I forgot who linked it but I think the work on https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_pkQfWV2zinamNEVUZtaUhkYmc/edit?pli=1 goes great lengths to show what I mean. Note that I disagree with the numerals above 7 and haven't found any double vowels (more likely they have additional individual vowels for , , etc.

Edit: Dead_Phoenix
Although I agree that it's unlikely we'll find codes there, I think it's good if we decipher as many messages as possible so we can adapt and adjust our understanding of the written languages which in turn will help us decipher future codes in e.g. indo

hatemail
02-03-2013, 06:49 AM
I been referencing this pic a lot
http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=28792&sid=a7bbd1c681a19a1838e5e70b6ec7b5a3

Dead_Phoenix
02-03-2013, 06:56 AM
Edit: Dead_Phoenix
Although I agree that it's unlikely we'll find codes there, I think it's good if we decipher as many messages as possible so we can adapt and adjust our understanding of the written languages which in turn will help us decipher future codes in e.g. indo

fair point!

Dead_Phoenix
02-03-2013, 06:57 AM
I been referencing this pic a lot
http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=28792&sid=a7bbd1c681a19a1838e5e70b6ec7b5a3

atm im using this for indo https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_pkQfWV2zinamNEVUZtaUhkYmc/edit?pli=1

and this for irathi http://irathient.cwahi.net/translator.php?lang=irathient

Tyren3402
02-03-2013, 07:09 AM
atm im using this for indo https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_pkQfWV2zinamNEVUZtaUhkYmc/edit?pli=1

and this for irathi http://irathient.cwahi.net/translator.php?lang=irathient

Nothing is showing for your Indo link? When you posted that link I got excited! But sadly its clear

Iluvatar
02-03-2013, 07:41 AM
atm im using this for indo https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_pkQfWV2zinamNEVUZtaUhkYmc/edit?pli=1

and this for irathi http://irathient.cwahi.net/translator.php?lang=irathient

I've been using the indo pdf too, as base, but a VBI translation as force majeure, since the pdf have too many inconsistencies


I actally had a bit of trouble translating them today, as what I had previously made my mind up about spikes and bubbles, would not fit into here :/
Another problem is that the characters seem to change properties from source to source.

229
(6)(3)(2)(1)(E)(R/Q) where I can't in fact find the last consonant. It could be an R or Q written wrong. It might also be a J since I have no examples of that.

230
This one turned out even worse
([1])(S)(N[2])(4)(2)([1])(R)([1])
(#1 a mix of ae/ea thus => ) (#2 guessing a lot on this one lol)

231
Basically turned this one out on basis of the 2 previous.
(I)(N)(L)()(S)(3)(6)()(2)(6)()

I used this tool
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_pkQfWV2zinamNEVUZtaUhkYmc/edit?pli=1
As well as the VBI translations below
232

233

Leeci
02-03-2013, 10:24 PM
you may be slightly over looking at image. only reason i say that is every code we have had has been digitally entered onto the picture. that is a live picture of a bilboard in the tv show. they wouldnt put an ark code there, for a start that piece of scenery has would of been made months ago. if not longer, well before they started any of this.

not saying don't look, just i wouldn't spend much time on it.

Fair point, I think you are right. Although I want it to be an arkcode, I think you are probably right that it's not.

However, there are two things that keep pulling me back to the idea it may be an arkcode. The first is the expectation that watching the show will result in things that you can apply to the game and playing the game will result in insight into the show. Assuming this I imagine there will be arkcodes revealed in the show and since the show has already been filmed, (or at least many episodes have, I'm not informed on the filming schedule) many written clues would already exist. The second thing is that using translator the first character of the sign results in the number "2". This would imply one of several things. Either the compiled translation is inaccurate, the sign was created before the written language was finalized resulting in a 'misspelling', it was never intended to mean anything, it's a possible ark code, or perhaps it's an alien word that doesn't exist or translate to English.

That said I feel that my translation of the third character representing "R" and the sixth representing either "I" or "F" to be highly likely.


edit: After some thought I realize they could be planning on using CGI to strategically place certain information after filming. That may weaken one of my thoughts.

Lightcaster
02-22-2013, 02:22 AM
I was wondering something. Have they said how many letters each language has? We could be running into issues with letters that either don't exist, or exist differently...

Smitch
02-22-2013, 05:45 AM
I was wondering something. Have they said how many letters each language has? We could be running into issues with letters that either don't exist, or exist differently...

No they have not. I asked. >.< But no one is saying at this time. There are a lot for Castithan. Over 150 odd I believe. The main glyph is modified to change the sound so it is not quite as complicated as it might sound, as you technically don't have to learn 150+ symbols. More like 30ish odd, and the modifiers. OK...it might be as complicated as it sounds. >.< Irathient, despite having more words in the language at this time, also has less known about it. Both languages rely heavily on ligatures. Which is when you type a letter, and it is modified by the following letter. Start with B, and it is modified into a different symbol if you follow it up with an i, or another again if it's followed with o.

As far as the videos and symbols on the site, for the most part they are the English text just changed to the appropriate font and don't really mean anything in their respective language. On the show however... :) Thats where it is going to get fun! >.<

Lightcaster
02-22-2013, 07:23 AM
ah, so they are doing letter for letter translation right now (or right now that we see)? Hrm... I do hope that they aren't basing any language rules off of that. (I know that some here are, and that is certainly not the way languages are built) With how well built the other languages the creator did are, I'm sure this will at least be equal. Can't wait, they are really beautiful languages.

The True Pacman
04-01-2013, 04:27 AM
So is anyone gonna publish a "for dummies" version? Because I'm very intrigued by the conversation here but lost as hell lol.