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View Full Version : I have a simple suggestion (PvP)



Warden
03-25-2014, 05:14 PM
The protection spikes are extremely over powered in PvP. I have played hundreds of games of competitive multiplayer and the protection spike practically renders the user almost impossible to kill unless their is group team fire. A simple suggestion of Nerfing their immense power would be quite nice. I myself do not use spikes in PvP I consider them cheap play. Other people may feel different about this issue and I understand that.

Xervez
03-25-2014, 05:35 PM
A simple suggestion of Nerfing their immense power would be quite nice. I myself do not use spikes in PvP I consider them cheap play.

This is coming from a person who uses Cloak exclusively with a Surge Bolter... cheap play right here.

if and when they fix Cloak so it's not complete invisibility, spikes are the only way to take a point from people who are cheap which is majority of the server since literally all of you use CLOAK with a surge bolter.

Nefarious
03-25-2014, 05:38 PM
I couldn't agree more.

I could see if the Damage Spike off set the Protection Spike it would be somewhat even. But for the most part it doesn't. The Protection Spike should be something to help supplement actual cover instead of people tossing it down in open space.

Does anyone know what the actual % a blue the Protection Spike generates? I wouldn't be shocked if it was 90%. It sure feels that way.

Hopefully with this new feature with 'Armor Plates' coming with DLC 5 that the Protection takes the role of regenerating Armor Plates at a reasonable rate instead of being an Invincible Beacon like it is now.

Not to mention if Cloak just gets a shimmer like Dark Matter Snipers and Infector Grenades get a nerf on how far the bugs linger and travel before they die off then PvP would be on the Up and Up.

And for what its worth to everyone a TACC Mag AR with Overcharge and a Damage Spike works better then expected against users in the range of a Protection Spike. You will actually knock surprisingly amounts of life out of players using the Protection Spike but you need to stack a Damage Spike and Overcharge or it wont do anything..and having those 2 set and ready are not always readily available compared to the amount of Protection Spikes around. Of course infectors and infector grenades are still the choice among everyone to counter it, but if you are feeling different and want to surprise ppl this is another way.

Warden
03-25-2014, 05:48 PM
Zalifax the only reason you are posting about this is because you use protection spikes like it is the holy grail. As I said in another post numerous people will tell you I use different combos. This is a simple constructive post of an idea not for you to bash on people for using specific weapons.

Warden
03-25-2014, 05:59 PM
I couldn't agree more.

I could see if the Damage Spike off set the Protection Spike it would be somewhat even. But for the most part it doesn't. The Protection Spike should be something to help supplement actual cover instead of people tossing it down in open space.

Does anyone know what the actual % a blue the Protection Spike generates? I wouldn't be shocked if it was 90%. It sure feels that way.

Hopefully with this new feature with 'Armor Plates' coming with DLC 5 that the Protection takes the role of regenerating Armor Plates at a reasonable rate instead of being an Invincible Beacon like it is now.

Not to mention if Cloak just gets a shimmer like Dark Matter Snipers and Infector Grenades get a nerf on how far the bugs linger and travel before they die off then PvP would be on the Up and Up.

And for what its worth to everyone a TACC Mag AR with Overcharge and a Damage Spike works better then expected against users in the range of a Protection Spike. You will actually knock surprisingly amounts of life out of players using the Protection Spike but you need to stack a Damage Spike and Overcharge or it wont do anything..and having those 2 set and ready are not always readily available compared to the amount of Protection Spikes around. Of course infectors and infector grenades are still the choice among everyone to counter it, but if you are feeling different and want to surprise ppl this is another way.

Very true I like your style.

ironcladtrash
03-25-2014, 06:03 PM
Use a big boomer and stick the people inside the spike and wait to blow up the grenades when the spike goes away. :D

OttawaREDBLACKS
03-25-2014, 06:14 PM
leave protection spikes, I enjoy placing one right next to someone else, then break their spike by cluster nades or melee then proceed to one shot the person while they are still trying to kill me.

Xervez
03-25-2014, 06:14 PM
Zalifax the only reason you are posting about this is because you use protection spikes like it is the holy grail. As I said in another post numerous people will tell you I use different combos. This is a simple constructive post of an idea not for you to bash on people for using specific weapons.


I do not use cloak and bolter exclusively. If you played more you would notice I will run around with overcharge and a tachmag/Fragger. Before you decide to be little some one on a thread for no reason do your homework. You can ask almost anyone that I will use different combos. When I am getting bolted a lot yes I will switch to camo bolter.

Majority of the SW matchs I've jumped into you were CLOAK SURGEBOLTER, and I'm literally the only one on the server that uses Decoy with a REGULAR semi auto with a tachmag (varies) and can achieve positive scores even though I'm downplaying.

I don't need to be little someone who says something is cheap when they themselves tend to use CHEAP tactics.

The fact is if I'm running around taking a point and yourself and literally the whole PC-NA server are most likely cloaked with a surgebolter yea you better believe I'm going to use a spike since you wanna play cheap and play hide and seek sure I''ll sit at the point with a protection spike since majority of the PC-NA server uses cloak with 1 shot weapons.

OK if you did your homework I was one of the top guys in PC-NA even before the charged weapons and protection spikes were added, I'm one of the old guards man, you might want to sit down and face the wall and when your ready to stop using cheap tactics and still come out on top then you can talk but right now a Spike is literally the only way to take a point in the open without getting CLOAKED ZAGGERED / SURGEBOLTERED by players like yourself.

Warden
03-25-2014, 06:22 PM
This isn't a who's better post quit causing drama where there shouldn't be. I guess it was my fault for feeding the troll.

Xervez
03-25-2014, 06:28 PM
This isn't a who's better post quit causing drama where there shouldn't be. I guess it was my fault for feeding the troll.

Besides the fact,

A Protection Spike is literally the only way to take a point in the open without getting CLOAKED ZAGGERED / SURGEBOLTERED by cloaked players.

When you can solve the cloak 1 shot issue, then you can adjust protection spikes but for now majority of people will use CLOAK with a zagger / surgebolter combo since it's literally guaranteed kills since the person you face will have very little chance to fight back.

Seizan
03-25-2014, 06:47 PM
this reminds me of back in the day when Gears of War players complained about the Stim Grenade and how it renders the user near-invincible for a duration of time.

One of the suggestions back then was to make these type of items/equipment affect all players (friend and foe) within its effective radius. In other words, the healing effect does not discriminate.

Amack
03-25-2014, 07:48 PM
A much better idea would be to make the spikes target-able since they don't seem to be a problem for WM to roll over them.
Tetiona posted that in the live stream question thread but no response yet.

Nefarious
03-25-2014, 10:31 PM
A much better idea would be to make the spikes target-able since they don't seem to be a problem for WM to roll over them.


^this. ^this 1000x

trion should just do this.

Amack
03-25-2014, 10:45 PM
^this. ^this 1000x

trion should just do this.

It would generate traffic at the vendors, possibly increase bit store sales, and help pvp all at once.
Win-Win-Win.

cary2010haha
03-25-2014, 10:58 PM
Besides the fact,

A Protection Spike is literally the only way to take a point in the open without getting CLOAKED ZAGGERED / SURGEBOLTERED by cloaked players.

When you can solve the cloak 1 shot issue, then you can adjust protection spikes but for now majority of people will use CLOAK with a zagger / surgebolter combo since it's literally guaranteed kills since the person you face will have very little chance to fight back.

the problem of cloak is weapon damage too high(and you can't see make you can't avoid it and 1 hit 1 kill is quiet hard to counter), and spike is not a problem because you can avoid it or throw yours together and have a long CD time.

And cheap is really a skill that not everyone can handle it well as a few people restrict by other reason like honor etc... , look at our world most success battle have no honor to say.(nuke the island)


A much better idea would be to make the spikes target-able since they don't seem to be a problem for WM to roll over them.
Tetiona posted that in the live stream question thread but no response yet.

So aoe weapon like boomers bonfires will be unstoppable in a cap point field clear fight.

Nefarious
03-25-2014, 11:35 PM
We all know of how dets are over powered. I think that when we put ideas out to fix one thing we imagine so in a world where all that other stuff is fixed too. lol

I myself feel like Detonators are backwards and wrote out this awhile ago.

A solution to detonator balancing is to have it so that the bigger the explosive radius a detonator has the weaker that detonator is. As they are now there is no balance with them. Does there really need to be detonators with 7.2+ blast radius that also have 2500+ dmg while other detonators have 2.5+ blast radius and have 1200+ dmg?

Shouldn't the detonator that needs to be a more of a direct hit benefit from having higher dmg while the indirect detonators with larger blasts radiuses have over all lower dmg since they can hit targets 5x easier?

For instance lets say if the Crash Boomer and Big Boomer switched max/min dmg between one another. It wouldn't ruin the Big Boomer since it would still benefit from having the biggest blast radius in the game making it a viable choice for PvP and PvE. And the Crash with its high damage would still need to be a direct hit to benefit. So there is a plus side and a down side to using either one. Of course its not as clean cut as switching things around to fix them but more then less Detonators and Lobbers feel all around backwards.


Rockets are pretty balanced. imo for Rockets Bonfire's and Sludge should have considerable slower reload times compared to other Launchers since they guarantee to proc nano effects and from reading the new blog post it seems that Nano effects are going to be more important then ever. And Longshot Cannons should have its blast radius cut in half since the rocket projectile from those travel 2x faster then other Rockets. Long Shots are everything FRC Rockets are and more. There has to be give and take with AOE weapons like the other classes.

Ive never seen or read anything from anyone complain about ARs. Because there's enough give and take between them all.

duction
03-25-2014, 11:43 PM
Problem is when a whole team put 1 down as 1 finishes.

We have a problem with a particular set of people on the EU xbox server always using these, it's noobs play..

Worst case when people surge bolt cloaked stood inside their protection spike lmao.

cary2010haha
03-26-2014, 12:54 AM
[I]A solution to detonator balancing is to have it so that the bigger the explosive radius a detonator has the weaker that detonator is. As they are now there is no balance with them. Does there really need to be detonators with 7.2+ blast radius that also have 2500+ dmg while other detonators have?


2.5+ blast radius and have 1200+ dmg is a fully auto =,= if you see their fire rate and you will know they are not bad, just too small ammo pool, and big boomer have a very small clip and long reload time than other detonator

the DLC 7th detonator is more useful as it hold a very big clip and fast reload(0.5 sec pre reload as frist 2 shot reload)



bonfire and sludge is fine, their full damage is just other rocket's min damage.


Problem is when a whole team put 1 down as 1 finishes.

We have a problem with a particular set of people on the EU xbox server always using these, it's noobs play..

Worst case when people surge bolt cloaked stood inside their protection spike lmao.

so it's a team tactic, it just like in reality no matter how gd is your shooting skill, team tactic always do better effective human hunt then alone wolfs in the battlefield.

duction
03-26-2014, 01:09 AM
2.5+ blast radius and have 1200+ dmg is a fully auto =,= if you see their fire rate and you will know they are not bad, just too small ammo pool, and big boomer have a very small clip and long reload time than other detonator

the DLC 7th detonator is more useful as it hold a very big clip and fast reload(0.5 sec pre reload as frist 2 shot reload)



bonfire and sludge is fine, their full damage is just other rocket's min damage.



so it's a team tactic, it just like in reality no matter how gd is your shooting skill, team tactic always do better effective human hunt then alone wolfs in the battlefield.

No it's a cowards tactic lol

cary2010haha
03-26-2014, 01:20 AM
No it's a cowards tactic lol


History only mark loser as coward , look WW2 USA refuse to join the war to help other suffering country until they get a hit, and they nuke a small island by use a overpower bomb, but i don;t think anyone will say USA is coward.


So use the best tactic to win, as now cloak and spike and stack with a pro team.

duction
03-26-2014, 01:23 AM
Won't make me want to use them, we still win without them :)

Atticus Batman
03-26-2014, 01:34 AM
Won't make me want to use them, we still win without them :)

Hey you pulled an edit! I liked your last response better! ;)

duction
03-26-2014, 01:56 AM
Hey you pulled an edit! I liked your last response better! ;)

lol, we all know who they are.

cary2010haha
03-26-2014, 02:08 AM
Won't make me want to use them, we still win without them :)

yes because now defiance only have random team matches.

let see if Trion add group function in PVP, and let see how can you win those dirty rooms like BF4 or other group able shooter games.

duction
03-26-2014, 02:27 AM
Sure, what's your clans name.. Pretty sure there isn't enough protection spikes in the vendors to help ya win though lol

Nefarious
03-26-2014, 12:59 PM
1-• 2.5+ blast radius and have 1200+ dmg is a fully auto =,= if you see their fire rate and you will know they are not bad, just too small ammo pool, and big boomer have a very small clip and long reload time than other detonator


2-• bonfire and sludge is fine, their full damage is just other rocket's min damage.



1-• Of course its not as clean cut as switching things around to fix them but more then less Detonators and Lobbers feel all around backwards.


2-• Rockets Bonfire's and Sludge should have considerable slower reload times compared to other Launchers since they guarantee to proc nano effects and from reading the new blog post it seems that Nano effects are going to be more important then ever.

Why don't we see players using the Crash Boomer in PvE and PvP? We don't. No one uses them because the Crash sucks and Detonators take the Bigger is Better ladder approach. And all Detonators have the same base reload rate. So its not like the Boomer has this long reload to make up for its ridiculous power.

What about the Ground Pounder, is that balanced? Its the best cluster weapon in the game. It bypasses enemy armor a deals direct damage to them. Tough enemies like Tankers, Monarch, you name it get killed within seconds by it because enemies can be laced easily with multiple bombs. What about the VOT Rebound Lobber? Who here uses that? The thing sucks. Detonators are nowhere near balanced like some of the other classes. There is not enough give and take with them. We have these crappy dets over here on this side of the line and the best dets over there on that side. Its no secret on why that Detonators have been called out for being unbalanced since week 1 of the game.

And no one uses the Sludge or Bonfire for it dmgs. They use them for the constant nano proc effect. They are not balanced considering they can affect a multitude of enemies with Nano effects at a rapid rate like they can. A longer reload time for them wouldn't ruin them it would just put a gap between the use in senseless spamming them. Im not bias towards Dets or Rockets. And I think out of all the Rockets 3 could use some tuning.

I could get into Pistols. The Ultimag is my favorite pistol. I have a shock one. I can hold an enemy or a group of enemies to a stand still since on a full charge its guaranteed to proc a nano effect. But even though I use it alot I know its charge should be a tad bit longer considering what it does. Then we have a gun like the Magnum Revolver with a 0.8 fire rate. Ive gotten ones with x-times to rate of fire but since its rate of fire is so low that the multiplier has nothing to multiply from. Its 0.8 x whatever = nothing. The gun shoots so slow its worthless. Then we have VOT cold fire weapons that do just as much dmg as a Magnum or more and shoot at a rapid rate. What is up with that? Shouldn't the Magnum at least have a reasonable boost in its fire rate to hold its own to be a more viable choice?

Junk weapons should be considered junk from a player considering their personal play style towards that weapon and not because the gun is actually junk. And players shouldn't be handicapped for not using the handful of the cheapest and best guns. And the messed up trend with Defiance is that the most overpowered guns throughout the game also so happen to be the ones that are easiest to hit targets with. What happened to the day where the hair thin projectile from a Rail Gun was the strongest? Not in Defiance lol.

There are not a lot of junk weapons and there's not a lot of over powered ones. But there is just enough for each that there are ones that no one ever uses and then ones that everyone uses. And that makes events in the game play out a whole lot of the same.

Drewbud
03-26-2014, 02:58 PM
Remove PvP completely. Solved.

Iceberg
03-26-2014, 03:26 PM
disable consumables in pvp matches. fix the "not showing up on radar when shooting" bug. Make teams balanced, tired of 2 on 6 or 1 on 4 matches. Give cloak a tiny nerf, if moving it shimmers, if you are still you can have full stealth. Allow match making to be cross shard, waiting 4 hours to find 5 players is not a long fulfilling chase to me.

ironcladtrash
03-26-2014, 03:31 PM
Remove PvP completely. Solved.

I used to really love the PVP in this game but I am leaning more toward this. It needs a complete overhaul and the weapons, perks, ego powers, stims, and grenades need to be completely rebalanced. I don't like the idea of keeping it separate from PVE either. That was the big draw for me was to bring all the gear and abilities you grinded in PVE to get. PVP has always been the red headed step child. As long as it's still in the game it gives me just the slightest bit of hope it will be fixed one day but it is always ignored. At this point I'd rather they kill it to put it out if it's misery.

Nefarious
03-26-2014, 03:39 PM
Remove PvP completely. Solved.

Yeah because you know unbalanced weapons only bore and ruin PvP. Those Afflicted Incursions are real fun. I like the custom soundtrack that they have..it goes something like 'Thump-thump-thump-BOOM! Thump-thump-thump-BOOM! 'Thump-thump-thump-BOOM!'. And its weird because whenever the sound track kicks on the enemies briefly spawn and then instantly die. Its some kind of bug or something. Trion should look into it.

OttawaREDBLACKS
03-26-2014, 03:47 PM
History only mark loser as coward , look WW2 USA refuse to join the war to help other suffering country until they get a hit, and they nuke a small island by use a overpower bomb, but i don;t think anyone will say USA is coward.


So use the best tactic to win, as now cloak and spike and stack with a pro team.

Use the best tactic to win you mean the easiest without balls tactic, so basically the good junk of people who were **** and now are decent or even considered good due to being cheap. The top players will be affected slightly but when they aren't a 4v1 battle or against people who spam hatchlings they will generally win. Its the middle of the line players who in the majority decided to stop playing defiance as a whole or just pvp due to the poor stuff recently. Such as a hip firing sniper rifle where one person could take out a whole squad in about 4 seconds now its around 8 seconds but still way too quickly, or shotguns that don't reload. Personally I only used to surgebolter back then to tell people to **** off, grow some balls as there is someone who will always be better using the same gun as themselves.

Nefarious
03-26-2014, 03:59 PM
Infector Grenades have to be one of the worst things implemented in Defiance. Ive been collecting Infector Grenades in my Claim items section since the grenade update. Ive never claimed them and Ive never broke any down. I have more in there then I care to count. Last night I decided to take them for a whirl. I just stood at a far distance from an enemy capture point and hail marry tossed them in that direction. Its free kills. Its so cheap.

The Bugs will run someone down and leap ten yards at them. Then I just replenish from my claim items. The Infector grenade is tiers above the other grenades. Why are things like this so strong? Why does Defiance have a habit of making the easiest things to use the strongest?

Maybe if I use Cloak, abuse ego charge on reload, and have speed boosts, all while spamming Infector Grenades then I to could be 1337.

duction
03-26-2014, 04:15 PM
They work against protection spikes, work as intended.

ironcladtrash
03-26-2014, 04:20 PM
SWs itself is a problem because its too wide open. There is almost no cover so snipers, cloak or both are the only way to go. You have to use spikes or die from a sniper while trying to take a point.

Also it's not always the "cheap" weapons that are a problem. The syphon tach mags use to be the worst because I could watch peoples health regenerate faster then a bmg while they were being shot by multiple people. No it wasn't a shield glitch. Sometimes I still see it but no where near as bad as it was.

Nefarious
03-26-2014, 04:33 PM
They work against protection spikes, work as intended.

lol yeah. Its like a game of Rock,Paper,Scissors and someone claws their hand and says hot lava! Hot lava beats everything. Yeah infector grenades sure are working as intended I guess :rolleyes:.

Seizan
03-26-2014, 05:06 PM
A much better idea would be to make the spikes target-able since they don't seem to be a problem for WM to roll over them.
Tetiona posted that in the live stream question thread but no response yet.

Meaning the spike would only protect one specific player at a time or what is it? I'm intrigued to learn more about this.

Amack
03-26-2014, 05:35 PM
Meaning the spike would only protect one specific player at a time or what is it? I'm intrigued to learn more about this.

Meaning that smart PVPers would target and take the spike down before the players that are being protected by it. It could be done many ways, but teamwork could/would play a part in it.

Nefarious
03-26-2014, 06:04 PM
Players would have to place spikes down behind cover/objects to protect them. It would go hand in hand with Protection spikes supplementing cover. Tossing a spike down in open space would not be wise.

I totally agree with spikes being destructible. Very Destructible. As powerful the Protection and Damage spikes are they should be prone to being destroyed and thus would be strategically placed to be protected.

Atticus Batman
03-26-2014, 08:20 PM
Infector Grenades have to be one of the worst things implemented in Defiance. Ive been collecting Infector Grenades in my Claim items section since the grenade update. Ive never claimed them and Ive never broke any down. I have more in there then I care to count. Last night I decided to take them for a whirl. I just stood at a far distance from an enemy capture point and hail marry tossed them in that direction. Its free kills. Its so cheap.

The Bugs will run someone down and leap ten yards at them. Then I just replenish from my claim items. The Infector grenade is tiers above the other grenades. Why are things like this so strong? Why does Defiance have a habit of making the easiest things to use the strongest?

Maybe if I use Cloak, abuse ego charge on reload, and have speed boosts, all while spamming Infector Grenades then I to could be 1337.

Got any orange hatchling nades for sale, Nerfy?