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Scapes
03-27-2014, 09:25 PM
http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DLC5ScalingEnemies__Title_Blog.jpg (http://community.defiance.com/en/2014/03/28/arktech-revolution-the-march-of-progress)

In April, Defiance will welcome its fifth DLC pack, Arktech Revolution (http://community.defiance.com/en/2014/03/25/announcing-arktech-revolution), along with a new progression system that's one our most important upgrades to date. For the first time, weapons will scale based on their EGO rating requirement. You'll achieve new heights of power as your level increases, and enemies will scale to keep pace with your growing abilities, gaining new stats, tactics, and appearances.

Also launching with Arktech Revolution are advanced and expert level co-op maps, legendary weapons for sale from vendors, new perks and pursuits for DLC owners, and a raising of the EGO rating cap – one we've held back until the new progression system was ready to make it hugely worthwhile.

Read the full article on the website. (http://community.defiance.com/en/2014/03/28/arktech-revolution-the-march-of-progress)

Fuzzle
03-27-2014, 09:47 PM
I'm really anxious to try this out on the alpha server.

Scapes
03-27-2014, 09:54 PM
I'm really anxious to try this out on the alpha server.

So are we, lots of insights to be gleaned from players getting their hands on it.

Nefarious
03-27-2014, 09:59 PM
http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/scaling_comparison.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6DLAlEA.gif

Arsenic_Touch
03-27-2014, 10:04 PM
Holy ego scaling.

So you listed some of things paid dlc owners get, how much more is going to be under the "and more" part?

The blog made it sound like the only way to get the new currency is through bits, I hope this isn't the case.

Lucent
03-27-2014, 10:07 PM
So I can level up my low EGO OJ's to 5000 with cash. ............
I like the idea of rerolling masteries if I want, but why tie it to cash as well? That just seems dirty. (The blog specifically does say also from lockboxes and events, Arsenic.)

I think all these major changes (more power at high Ego, randomly messing with nano-effects which have been fine this whole time) are just silly overall. Why change the core mechanic of the game this late into its life?

I want something NEW TO DO. Not a new way to play what I already played. Making a co-op map "harder" will not trick me into thinking it is new.

Make the "same old" enemies smarter and look different is not really something NEW. Just like an incursion was.... simply stringing emergencies and ending in a siege. Not anything new.

We need more things like the Warmaster, but where we aren't going to be screwed over by confused people and can make a private instance of it. I liked Minor Arkbreaks too, but no one goes in anymore and I am just ruthlessly punished if I die by myself.

I really really really like Defiance. Give me NEW things, please. That is was DLC is supposed to be. DLC is CONTENT: not change of core game mechanic without adding anything.

Fuzzle
03-27-2014, 10:09 PM
The blog made it sound like the only way to get the new currency is through bits, I hope this isn't the case.


Arkforge, a new currency available from lock boxes and events

_________________________________________


You’ll get 1,000 Arkforge as part of the Chimera Arktech Kit that comes with the purchase of Arktech Revolution, along with a special outfit, title, new Chimera contracts and vendor, pursuits, perks, and more


...new perks and pursuits for DLC owners

So am i reading that correctly? The new perks can only be used by DLC owners?

Scapes
03-27-2014, 10:09 PM
The blog made it sound like the only way to get the new currency is through bits, I hope this isn't the case.

Not the case.


Arkforge, a new currency available from lock boxes and events, can be used to increase a weapon or shield’s power rating, so you can level up your favorite gear.

Scapes
03-27-2014, 10:10 PM
So am i reading that correctly? The new perks can only be used by DLC owners?

Yes, that is correct.

OttawaREDBLACKS
03-27-2014, 10:15 PM
*throwing pvp out of a car into traffic.
Actually would be great if you removed pvp so that people no longer have to suffer through dumb things that were thought through such as a perfect hip firing highest damaging sniper rifle or shotguns that don't need to reload.

Arsenic_Touch
03-27-2014, 10:15 PM
Not the case.

Ah, didn't see that part.

And what about the "and more"

boogiejive
03-27-2014, 10:21 PM
what what what is that really the dmg increase

Nefarious
03-27-2014, 10:29 PM
I have no idea how this is truly going to work. Even after reading it.

The biggest thing Ive experienced with Level Scaling in Defiance was a Major Arkfall event was going on in very close proximity of a very big Shadow War. The odd thing though was that there was only a hand full of players taking part of the outside portion of the Major Arkfall and I guess the game took all those other players very near by in the Shadow War into consideration and there was nothing but Elite Dark Matter and Elite Bulwarks. And lots of them. And when it came down to it was just us few players Vs these mass amount of Elite enemies.

Now with the new update whats stopping groups of Max Level players going into beginner zones or events with Low Level players and not participate but in turn up the difficulty on them?

R69L
03-27-2014, 10:31 PM
How are you guys going to handle PvP? If someone who is 5000 has a super powered weapon how will soemone who is lower who will most likely have a decent weapon but it still won't hold a candle even stand a chance?

OrpheusXI
03-27-2014, 10:34 PM
I have no idea how this is truly going to work. Even after reading it.

The biggest thing Ive experienced with Level Scaling in Defiance was a Major Arkfall event was going on in very close proximity of a very big Shadow War. The odd thing though was that there was only a hand full of players taking part of the outside portion of the Major Arkfall and I guess the game took all those other players very near by in the Shadow War into consideration and there was nothing but Elite Dark Matter and Elite Bulwarks. And lots of them. And when it came down to it was just us few players Vs these mass amount of Elite enemies.

Now with the new update whats stopping groups of Max Level players going into beginner zones or events with Low Level players and not participate but in turn up the difficulty on them?

Only trolls would do that, seems stupid for anyone to do that really. Can't fix stupid.

quick
03-27-2014, 10:35 PM
Can't wait to see shields now! lmao

Gazz
03-27-2014, 10:36 PM
If I read this correctly, if I am at ego 4000 all my weapons will now be at a lower ego rating.
So, using the image above (Frontier Saw), I will have to "pay" to level up any of my weapons to ego 4000.
In other words all my current weapons are/will be useless because all the bad guys are scaled up to my ego level..!!

Nefarious
03-27-2014, 10:37 PM
How are you guys going to handle PvP? If someone who is 5000 has a super powered weapon how will soemone who is lower who will most likely have a decent weapon but it still won't hold a candle even stand a chance?

Hopefully the stats for our weapons currently will stay the same for the most part. Like, as it is now everything is kinda universal. Maybe we can switch between PvE and PvP loadouts. Just as we do with our Outfits.

So that level 5000 SAW in PvE will look like the level 50 one in the PvP loadout but with its rolls still taking into account...maybe ..

Nefarious
03-27-2014, 10:48 PM
Only trolls would do that, seems stupid for anyone to do that really. Can't fix stupid.

Well how do you think I thought of such a thing. :cool:

But the big picture is that what if the whole scenario of what I described with the Shadow War happens again near any Event or Emergency or whatever takes the Ego Scaling into account? Or a legion of players drive through someone's mission as they head to the next Arkfall site and that just so happens to spring up way higher level enemies for that single person?

I myself don't have a problem with harder enemies showing up and taking everyone out. Its cool to be apart of hard fights. I guess the Frontier is truly going to be a deadly place now.

So be it.

Arsenic_Touch
03-27-2014, 10:50 PM
In the cases where higher ego players come by, the lower ego player would be given a temporary buff, while they wouldn't be as strong as the high ego players, they would be able to still complete the content.


Looking to mentor your lower-level friends returning to Defiance to sample the changes in Arktech Revolution? We got you (and them) covered! Events will now dynamically adjust their difficulty based on the players participating in or joining them. Enemies will not only adjust their levels and quantity but their difficulty tier as well with upgraded enemies changing how they look for easier identification. Low EGO rating players will be able to stand in fights with these high-level foes by means of a special temporary buff.

Midori Oku
03-27-2014, 10:51 PM
If I read this correctly, if I am at ego 4000 all my weapons will now be at a lower ego rating.
So, using the image above (Frontier Saw), I will have to "pay" to level up any of my weapons to ego 4000.
In other words all my current weapons are/will be useless because all the bad guys are scaled up to my ego level..!!

It says "Arkforge, a new currency available from lock boxes and events, can be used to increase a weapon or shield’s power rating, so you can level up your favorite gear. Arkforge Caches can also be purchased from the store."

You will be able to earn the arkforge currency in game, or buy it with bits.

rebtattoo
03-27-2014, 10:53 PM
They've finally figured out what is going to break the game completely!

DLC 1 brought us broken arenas

DLC 2 brought us broken Warmaster

DLC 3 brought us broken incursions

DLC 4 was almost the game breaker with incredible lag and dc's/hard freezes across the platforms.

DLC 5 will tamper with weapon scaling and EGO scaling. It introduces armor and buffed bad guys.

The first 4 DLC couldn't be introduce without a catastrophe, this one should be a laugh riot!

Nefarious
03-27-2014, 10:54 PM
In the cases where higher ego players come by, the lower ego player would be given a temporary buff, while they wouldn't be as strong as the high ego players, they would be able to still complete the content.


" (a boost that affects players and enemies alike). This may not make you equal to the content if you have a low EGO rating, but it will keep you from being wiped out by top-tier opponents."

aaaaahh... well then..that settles that.

Amack
03-27-2014, 10:54 PM
Scapes,

What about the loyal customers who have been purchasing inventory slots during their ego progression in the past year? Many players have been doing this so they can store the lower ego weapons and shields that they wanted to keep, in order to resell, and or re-use at a later time. How are they going to react to this?

rebtattoo
03-27-2014, 10:55 PM
It says "Arkforge, a new currency available from lock boxes and events, can be used to increase a weapon or shield’s power rating, so you can level up your favorite gear. Arkforge Caches can also be purchased from the store."

You will be able to earn the arkforge currency in game, or buy it with bits.In other words, another form of Pay to Win, which Defiance has claimed they will never allow there game to become.

Yeah, okay.

Nefarious
03-27-2014, 11:00 PM
In other words, another form of Pay to Win, which Defiance has claimed they will never allow there game to become.

Yeah, okay.

We don't know how much Arkforge it will cost to bring our weapons up in level. And we don't know how much Arkforge is granted from events.

Anyway I just wanna be able to name our guns. I would spend Arkforge to do that.

Midori Oku
03-27-2014, 11:02 PM
In other words, another form of Pay to Win, which Defiance has claimed they will never allow there game to become.

Yeah, okay.

I personally find it pointless to buy it since you get it in game. I'm going to assume it's something that you are guaranteed to get as long as you play.

Gazz
03-27-2014, 11:05 PM
It says "Arkforge, a new currency available from lock boxes and events, can be used to increase a weapon or shield’s power rating, so you can level up your favorite gear. Arkforge Caches can also be purchased from the store."

You will be able to earn the arkforge currency in game, or buy it with bits.

Thanks Midori.. :)
I should have been specific with the "pay" word. Yes, we will have to use arkforge currency, But I am sure we will have to "pay" somewhere down the line.... lol.

Tekrunner
03-27-2014, 11:58 PM
Aha, so that's what Threat Level is. I'm surprised by how much weapon damage will increase with EGO. And well, a bit skeptical too. This brings back memories of the little time I spent in Firefall, where the quality of my gear felt like it mattered way more than my personal ability to aim, move and dodge.

Then again right now EGO 5000 characters are just steamrolling everything, so more scaling all around should only make things better at high level.

EDIT: Just noticed the pun in the title. Now fully expecting new terraformed fish enemies to be announced next Tuesday.

Elastik Spastik
03-28-2014, 12:35 AM
Cant even be bothered to complain about patch 5. But its s h I t and pathetic. Nothing new AGAIN. Why aren't we getting new stuff or areas to play instead of just a new way to play? I smell BS.

Oh well only one more day to wait. See you all in Tamriel.

Dar Katan
03-28-2014, 12:43 AM
I want to see what a EGO 5000 FRC Bolt Action looks like. . .

Atticus Batman
03-28-2014, 12:53 AM
This part looks interesting.

You’ll get 1,000 Arkforge as part of the Chimera Arktech Kit that comes with the purchase of Arktech Revolution, along with a special outfit, title, new Chimera contracts and vendor, pursuits, perks, and more. Arkforge will also expand to have new uses in the future, such as rerolling weapon masteries.

So will we now have to use arkforge to re-master weapons, or will it actually reset the mastery bonus when it is added in like 4 months?

Albion
03-28-2014, 01:10 AM
I like the idea that being EGO 5000 will actually mean something now, and I like the idea of rerolling weapon masteries. I hope that whatever EGO over 5000 we have been earning through pursuits will be added on retroactively when the new DLC hits.

Atticus Batman
03-28-2014, 01:18 AM
I like the idea that being EGO 5000 will actually mean something now, and I like the idea of rerolling weapon masteries. I hope that whatever EGO over 5000 we have been earning through pursuits will be added on retroactively when the new DLC hits.

Sounds like the ego gain from pursuits will retroactive. They just can't and won't Retroactively give you the regular exp you earned.

Etaew
03-28-2014, 01:24 AM
Honestly this sounds really quite good, and a real DLC.

Atticus Batman
03-28-2014, 01:29 AM
Honestly this sounds really quite good, and a real DLC.

A lot late though, isn't it? btw I should get an honorary title for all the shameless plugging of links I do for you site! :p Think people are starting to suspect one from me, more than you, nowadays! ROFLOL

Jaydogg
03-28-2014, 01:41 AM
So if im reading this correctly... all my current favorite legendaries that are ego 1000-2000ish will now become crap unless I dump(im assuming a ton based on opening mod slot costs) this new currency into them to bring em up to par with my ego 5000 character? which would also shrink the potential market for these items to be sold in the future? and I would be basically obligated to go through my 10-15 daily use weapons and upgrade them every time i gain a ego level? Why do I get the sense that high ego players are about to be yet again punished for their ego. please correct me if im wrong but it doesn't make any sense atm.

WhiteF8ng
03-28-2014, 01:44 AM
Aha, so that's what Threat Level is. I'm surprised by how much weapon damage will increase with EGO. And well, a bit skeptical too. This brings back memories of the little time I spent in Firefall, where the quality of my gear felt like it mattered way more than my personal ability to aim, move and dodge.

Then again right now EGO 5000 characters are just steamrolling everything, so more scaling all around should only make things better at high level.

Skeptical over here too... This is the EXACT reason I don't play BL2 much (if any) anymore. This exponential scaling may prove to be more of a chore than a reward. We will be swapping out and grinding for higher EGO stuff for the infinite future. This is the first major change that really has me worried.

Questions:

So every X EGO rating we'll be having to upscale our gear to meet our new standards or will scaling be tier based? (i.e. Weapons between 4000 and 5000 EGO can be used effectively) Will I be able to use a weapon effectively that is 500 EGO lower than my own? 1000? How much of this Arkforge will upscaling a weapon cost? How many threat levels are there? Will we be earning Arkforge at the same rate of scrip or salvage in these events/lockboxes? How will the weird weapons (BMGs and Infectors) be affected? Or will they? Weapon Leveling adjustment?

Elastik Spastik
03-28-2014, 02:07 AM
Any news on what you actually get for a paid dlc? Im confused in whats free and what isn't.

drackiller
03-28-2014, 02:11 AM
Any news on what you actually get for a paid dlc? Im confused in whats free and what isn't.

Go play ESO and make us some vids ;) i want a preview for my PS4 :)

Tekrunner
03-28-2014, 02:16 AM
How will the weird weapons (BMGs and Infectors) be affected? Or will they? Weapon Leveling adjustment?[/list]

*totally expects level scaling to only affect syringes on infectors, and not hatch, DoT or parasites*

On the other hand, this would be a perfect occasion to fix rarity damage bonuses on these weapons, so that they do, you know, anything at all.


Skeptical over here too... This is the EXACT reason I don't play BL2 much (if any) anymore. This exponential scaling may prove to be more of a chore than a reward. We will be swapping out and grinding for higher EGO stuff for the infinite future. This is the first major change that really has me worried.

The scaling should still be a lot less extreme than in BL2 (at level 50, a gun does 450 times as much damage as at level 1 in that game!), and closer to BL1 (where the ratio between level 1 and 50 is closer to 20), but it still seems a bit too high to me. It's quite a big change in the loot system's philosophy. It'll probably for the best, but it'll take some time to adjust. Making the scaling too strong may make that adjustment period difficult.

Elastik Spastik
03-28-2014, 02:23 AM
Go play ESO and make us some vids ;) i want a preview for my PS4 :)

I really can't wait for it. I played the betas and even they were awesome despite a few bugs.

Just look on youtube mate.

maverick07
03-28-2014, 02:49 AM
*totally expects level scaling to only affect syringes on infectors, and not hatch, DoT or parasites*

On the other hand, this would be a perfect occasion to fix rarity damage bonuses on these weapons, so that they do, you know, anything at all.



The scaling should still be a lot less extreme than in BL2 (at level 50, a gun does 450 times as much damage as at level 1 in that game!), and closer to BL1 (where the ratio between level 1 and 50 is closer to 20), but it still seems a bit too high to me. It's quite a big change in the loot system's philosophy. It'll probably for the best, but it'll take some time to adjust. Making the scaling too strong may make that adjustment period difficult.

Yeah I'm in the skeptical camp as well with this right now. You are right, it doesn't seem as insane as BL2 (think weapons went up like 11% in DMG each level in that game), but seeing DMG numbers that high on a SAW made me cringe a bit lol. And I wonder what EGO 5000 Oranges look like. Or stuff past EGO 5000 with the level cap increase...

Eager to hear what things are like on the PTS. And yeah, bet only Infector needle damage gets boosted also, as well as BMGs not getting any boosts to their DMG... :)

Umfafa
03-28-2014, 03:04 AM
Arktech Revolution: The *yawn* of *yawn*. Sorry, tired.

:P

Blondin
03-28-2014, 04:04 AM
It's a shame, you killed the spirit of Defiance.

A FRC saw with 2000+ damages, that is totaly shtako, so high EGO toon will do 10 times more damages, that is not Defiance.
Now you just have to spend time to grow your character, no matter if you don't know how to aim, you will be badass if you can spend bits in arkforge. You want this game to be like WOW, with high level toon that can laugh at noobs, because you think that will give you more money, but you forget something there is things to do in WOW, there is content...

You had a perfect game with good gameplay, good mechanics and most of all : original, all you had to do was to bring more content, instead you bring zero content and one year after you changed the game completely to garbage gameplay (btw this is direspectfull for the guys that created Defiance and were fired), that's a real shame.


Oh and btw, this Volge with a crown on his head is ridiculous, you souldn't have fired the designer guy that makes the game originaly.

viced998
03-28-2014, 04:46 AM
The Volge looks like Samurai Versions from them... A little bit funny

CRIXDA
03-28-2014, 04:58 AM
http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DLC5ScalingEnemies__Title_Blog.jpg

I am not going to judge all of the enemy designs that harshly.
The design to the far left is pretty cool and different, in my opinion.
The center is a bomber design with plumbing attached and color added, and the Viscera on the right is recolored and has spikes added. These are my opinions.

Are these enemies going to do different things?
Is the Bomber going to shoot "green" bombs instead of the regular blue, or the Elite red?
How about the Viscera?

I think that You see what I am asking.

Now, We are seeing the Volge here.
"Dynamic Scaling."
Does this also mean that ALL ENEMY RACES are getting new and more powerful units, or just the Volge?
Will there be 3 new Hellbug designs, 3 new 99er designs, 3 new Raider designs? 3 new Mutant designs?

Remember, We are expecting something here.

We are getting "Arkforge" tokens? That is what my Season's Farce money is getting me?

Thearl
03-28-2014, 05:00 AM
OK... I'm ALMOST on board.

from the article -
Ark hunters who find themselves with legendary weapons they’ve been holding onto since the early game will not be left out in the cold.

Alright.... So about ONE YEAR ago, When I jumped the tutorial wall and ran up to the New Freedom Crash Site, I had a tier 4 lock box in my claims from the game version I purchased. Without thinking, i opened that box and recieved 3 pieces of crap and an OJ FRC Scattergun with electric nano at EGO 30. It's pre-patch, has two rolls, and minimum damage, but pre-nano-nerf patch, it was my go to gun through EGO 3000. I've reset the mastery on it more often than any other OJ.

So... when I level this weapon up with the new currency, am I going to see post-patch rolls appear, or is this just going to be a damage scaling boost?

Be careful, if the new rolls appear, you are going to enrage all those daredevils that dumped their OJ inventory after the roll patch.

Telemachus
03-28-2014, 05:11 AM
Not any real surprise that they're going to change fundamental stuff about the game, is it ?


Well, since everytime they've done that before, it was met with such overwhelming approval, by the playerbase. What could go badly ?.... are only tampering with every players every weapons damage.




I'm happy that they haven't yet added something like pay for in scrip/keys/bits or salvage per 1k rounds in the ammo caches... yet.


Crap, didn't want to give them that idea... it wasn't me ... wasn't me... " the echo fades into the distance".

Magick
03-28-2014, 05:16 AM
will blades be also be scaling as well?

drackiller
03-28-2014, 06:14 AM
I really can't wait for it. I played the betas and even they were awesome despite a few bugs.

Just look on youtube mate.

I like to watch things from people that i feel some kind of connection. I may not speak to every one in this forum or like every one, but better the devil you know... :)

But i`ll have access to the beta on my PS4 , i guess ;)

Tsort
03-28-2014, 06:14 AM
It's a shame, you killed the spirit of Defiance.

A FRC saw with 2000+ damages, that is totaly shtako, so high EGO toon will do 10 times more damages, that is not Defiance.
Now you just have to spend time to grow your character, no matter if you don't know how to aim, you will be badass if you can spend bits in arkforge. You want this game to be like WOW, with high level toon that can laugh at noobs, because you think that will give you more money, but you forget something there is things to do in WOW, there is content...

You had a perfect game with good gameplay, good mechanics and most of all : original, all you had to do was to bring more content, instead you bring zero content and one year after you changed the game completely to garbage gameplay (btw this is direspectfull for the guys that created Defiance and were fired), that's a real shame.


Oh and btw, this Volge with a crown on his head is ridiculous, you souldn't have fired the designer guy that makes the game originaly.
French guys think alike.

There are probably a lot of players like us, who've been playing Defiance for so long exactly because this game is not like other MMOs. FPS out of a box, Counterstrike out of the sardine cans, Day Of Defeat with more than 3 streets...
Gunfighting in an open-world.
Dodge, duck, get into cover, aim, fire.
Anything (that is not insanely huge) can be killed with my gun. Anywhere.
Anything with a gun can kill me. Anywhere.
Just like in the real world, it doesn't matter if it's a toddler or a 7 foot-tall guy with a hockey mask pointing that AK-47 at me. You know what's scary? The GUN. Not the person holding it. Not the experience, and all the maths behind it. I like the immersion in Defiance. I can go back to Mt Tam and when I see that mutant cleaver rushing at me with his blade, I go "oh sh*t" and run. I don't stand there, getting hacked and slashed, sliced and diced, thinking "well, I have 10 times the HP needed to be here. This guy can not even hurt me".
Log in. Hear some explosions. Rush in and blaze your guns.
There are no "levels", no "end-game".
Smell the powder. Feel the pain.
You're a human being. Or a Votan alien. You ARE them. NOT a video-game character.
I don't wanna SEE the maths.

Please do not make it that way.

N3gativeCr33p
03-28-2014, 06:20 AM
http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DLC5ScalingEnemies__Title_Blog.jpg

Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing even remotely scary to any of these three re-skins. If anything, I think they look cute and cuddly... makes me want to run up and hug them.

But then again, I was quite the horror movie fiend in high school so it takes a lot to scare me... :)

Thearl
03-28-2014, 06:24 AM
Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing even remotely scary to any of these three re-skins. If anything, I think they look cute and cuddly... makes me want to run up and hug them.

But then again, I was quite the horror movie fiend in high school so it takes a lot to scare me... :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Rosie_O%27Donnell_2.jpg

New reskinned top tier warmaster?

N3gativeCr33p
03-28-2014, 06:26 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Rosie_O%27Donnell_2.jpg

New reskinned top tier warmaster?

Definitely scarier than those three re-skins! Thanks, now I will have nightmares the rest of the weekend... hope you're happy. ;)

Thearl
03-28-2014, 06:34 AM
indubitably... indubitably.

Overtkill21
03-28-2014, 07:16 AM
So you get a 792% DMG increase with an EGO level gain of 3950.

So that's a 2% DMG increase per 10 EGO (approximately).

So unless you are Max EGO (and that would be NEW max EGO) you will HAVE to spend Arkforge tokens every time you level up - at least for your favorite weapons. However, this will make them less tradeable in the future as they are now higher level.

With that in mind I highly doubt any of the EGO 5000 players will see their EGO go up at all for all of the play you have been doing since you maxed out.

When this DLC launches you can be sure you'll remain at EGO 5000 and I'm sure it'll be dismissed as a "bug" with a promise of fixing it "soon"... but if the Arkforge tokens are available for bits I am sure you can see the logic behind never delivering on that promise.

I find this change highly dubious - if enemies are going to scale to our 3000 per bullet DMG SAW then why would a Mad Mattock go down in one shot?

This change would be fantastic if it was coming from a developer I trusted not to totally flummox the effort.

Amack
03-28-2014, 07:27 AM
So you get a 792% DMG increase with an EGO level gain of 3950.

So that's a 2% DMG increase per 10 EGO (approximately).

So unless you are Max EGO (and that would be NEW max EGO) you will HAVE to spend Arkforge tokens every time you level up - at least for your favorite weapons. However, this will make them less tradeable in the future as they are now higher level.

With that in mind I highly doubt any of the EGO 5000 players will see their EGO go up at all for all of the play you have been doing since you maxed out.

When this DLC launches you can be sure you'll remain at EGO 5000 and I'm sure it'll be dismissed as a "bug" with a promise of fixing it "soon"... but if the Arkforge tokens are available for bits I am sure you can see the logic behind never delivering on that promise.

I find this change highly dubious - if enemies are going to scale to our 3000 per bullet DMG SAW then why would a Mad Mattock go down in one shot?

This change would be fantastic if it was coming from a developer I trusted not to totally flummox the effort.

Leave it to Trion to alienate the big spenders in my clan, including the leader.


Scapes,

What about the loyal customers who have been purchasing inventory slots during their ego progression in the past year? Many players have been doing this so they can store the lower ego weapons and shields that they wanted to keep, in order to resell, and or re-use at a later time. How are they going to react to this?

jaoker48
03-28-2014, 07:30 AM
Not the case.

Are there any plans on upping the rate at which we get Ark salvage and scrip then? Cause we all know How you like to put an insane cost with these currencies on your items.

Overtkill21
03-28-2014, 07:39 AM
So something I hadn't thought of - our Grenades need to, once again, have an EGO level. Unless you think a Frag doing 5000 DMG as accompaniment to a SAW doing 3000 DMG a bullet is funny or something...

Once again evidence of a complete lack of a plan on Trion's part...so you took the EGO away from grenades why? Something tells me all my nades will be EGO 1 when this launches and I have the privilege to pay to have them be useful again.

Also, if weapons are getting a 20% DMG buff per 100 EGO then are shields getting a 20% Cap Buff with each 100 EGO?

C2THEMAX
03-28-2014, 07:53 AM
Will lower level egos that buy higher ego weapons be able to reroll the weapon so they can actually use it at their current ego that way we can actually sell our unwanted weapons instead of end up just scrapping it? I think it would make the market a lot better.

wartitan
03-28-2014, 07:56 AM
So something I hadn't thought of - our Grenades need to, once again, have an EGO level. Unless you think a Frag doing 5000 DMG as accompaniment to a SAW doing 3000 DMG a bullet is funny or something...

Once again evidence of a complete lack of a plan on Trion's part...so you took the EGO away from grenades why? Something tells me all my nades will be EGO 1 when this launches and I have the privilege to pay to have them be useful again.

Also, if weapons are getting a 20% DMG buff per 100 EGO then are shields getting a 20% Cap Buff with each 100 EGO?

That's a good point Overt...what IS happening with grenades? Are they getting a generic buff as well, getting a level again? They have been tasked as a consumable....but because they do damage they need to scale with the enemies we're throwing them at...

C2THEMAX
03-28-2014, 08:09 AM
I say keep us ark hunters the way we are and make the new elites with more hp and do more damage like the volge when they first came before you nerfed them.

Fuzzy
03-28-2014, 08:12 AM
I honestly don't know what to think of this...
This damage buff seems a bit extreme to me, especially considering everything that has been said here.
What about grenades and shields?
What is the new max level? Will this change be retroactive? Because if it isn't, I don't have an incentive to play anymore. I worked for a year now (yes, I'm a day one player, even beta tester) to get the weapons I want. I have good weapons of pretty much every type. Weapons I'd like to keep and not have to pay for them to be better.
The first weapon change wasn't retroactive, will this one be? I sure hope it is.

Second, will players who have reached 5k will get their ego levels which they are above 5k get added? I'm aware that this could only apply to pursuits and weapon levels, not XP though. I have done every pursuit there is and pretty much every weapon at lvl 20, so I should be at about 5.300 now. It would be unfair if you wouldn't grant us these levels...

I'm all for harder and more enemies, better scaling etc. but I'm not quite sure how to feel about this core change. Any word on when the PTS will go live, better when this DLC will go live?

I won't say this change is bad before I have played it... But I'm feeling like this could be a game-breaker if it isn't done right.
Hope we get to play on the PTS soon, maybe even longer than a week? So you could change things and have enough time to change them if something needs to be changed...

Holy Bahamut3
03-28-2014, 08:12 AM
I'm just glad I can bring my pre pach weapons up to speed, and can possibly bring my first character Aries out of retirement... It took you guys 7 months and one of my "DLC's" , but thank you.

C2THEMAX
03-28-2014, 08:30 AM
And how about a way to add a nano or remove one from a weapon so we dont have to waste a mod slot

Giren
03-28-2014, 08:31 AM
I wonder how much arkforge it will cost to level up a guns from 815. 1551, and 1691 ego to ego level 4455

Yrkul
03-28-2014, 08:34 AM
So you're introducing true vertical progressing. That's..... bad.

Others have already voiced my own misgivings about these changes, so I won't waste my time reiterating. Suffice to say, that the ridiculous power curve illustrated in the article will introduce an avalance of problems. Perhaps the scaling system can mitigate that, but running the game is shaky as it is. Is ramping up the complexity a smart move at this point?

This whole thing smells of yet more unwise design decisions and an attempt to introduce more ways to sell us bits. The "pay-to-win" prospect also rears its head yet again, depending on the rate we can earn arkforge ingame.

By the looks of it, we're only going to get bigger, harder hitting bullet sponges and bigger guns to shoot them with. That's lazy game "design". No new enemy types with better AI or telegraphed specials you'll have to use skill to avoid. No interesting, yet uncontrived new mechanics. Only powercreep rivaling that of World of Warcraft.

RAGEFIGHTER
03-28-2014, 08:38 AM
cool looks interesting and since i dont pvp and pursuit its even more good i like weapon ego rating how ever you say enemys will somhow ping out my ego and bee stronger ? what will happen whit noob near mee lets say in events or missions if i decide to help him out? hee will get 5k damage from weakest enemy on server? this is prety sireous questionm to think about also new perks i hope realy new and usefull for any type well dont know how to call classes i guess like cloak blur decoy overcharge and last but not less important dlc 5 owner in this emm title are included season pass owners also ? right?

Littleweasel
03-28-2014, 09:00 AM
so what CONTENT exactly are the people that either have a season pass or buy the update/dlc 5 actually getting for their money.

because everything i have been reading about it really does not show any content, only a new way of playing the game?

i do not call re-skinned weapons, toons skins content, pursuit or achievements/trophies content.

i know that in order to use the new perk system you will need to buy the dlc, but with the way the enemies are suppose scale with peoples ego it almost seems like unless you pay for the update you would not last 10 seconds against most enemies after the update launches. which is a real stupid thing to do since people that did not buy the first 4 updates will probably not buy the 5th update so they would leave the game? unless that's what Trion is trying to do make people leave the game?

Tekrunner
03-28-2014, 09:03 AM
What is the new max level? Will this change be retroactive? Because if it isn't, I don't have an incentive to play anymore. I worked for a year now (yes, I'm a day one player, even beta tester) to get the weapons I want. I have good weapons of pretty much every type. Weapons I'd like to keep and not have to pay for them to be better.
The first weapon change wasn't retroactive, will this one be? I sure hope it is.

What do you mean by retroactive? What's likely to happen is that your weapons will remain at the same EGO level they are now. Then if you level up, you'll have to pay arkforge to level them up. Yep, that means we're going to have to spend a ton of arkforge to bring all of our favorite guns to the new cap. I'm hoping that the 1k starting package covers a significant part of that...

A question I have though is whether the cost of upgrading a weapon is proportional to how many levels are added, or whether it is a fixed cost to bring the weapon level from whatever it is at to your current EGO. The former could make trading annoying, as buying a low level weapon with good rolls would mean having to pay a ton of arkforge to make it useful. I also have a few low EGO weapons that I currently use, and I'd be sad if they cost me an arm to upgrade...

N3gativeCr33p
03-28-2014, 09:05 AM
Once again evidence of a complete lack of a plan on Trion's part...so you took the EGO away from grenades why? Something tells me all my nades will be EGO 1 when this launches and I have the privilege to pay to have them be useful again.

I'll say this much on the record... if this actually happens, I'm officially 100% done playing this game. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Done. Finished. Finito.

Lucent
03-28-2014, 09:21 AM
The more I have been thinking about this, the more I am angry about it.

Why are you making Defiance NOT Defiance?

Here are some things I love(d) about Defiance (accompanied by many caps):

-The unique grenade system
-How you could play with a new player and still have fun. I don't want to kill a "regular" Mad Mattock with one hit!!! We have trash enemies as Skitterlings and nanytes and 99s bots. I don't want trash enemies across the board. That was UNIQUE AND SPECIAL about this game.
-How weapons of any level were good to use. I liked that I could keep a weapon I loved from a low EGO level and still use it later on... without having to "earn" the right for it to be useful at a higher level. The difference of weapons WAS about the rolls. That also was special!! You can scale damage between a Ego 10 and an Ego 5000, a little but make it much much much less. Or make the scale tied to your EGO. (Of course this won't happen... then people can't pay cash to use the weapons they have enjoyed!)
-The nano-effects... AS THEY ARE. Why do you need to change electric to be "for shields"... for any other reason than "Borderlands did it"? Electric nano DID something... it stunned, it did tick damage, and it could jump to others. ALL the nano-effects already did something. And it was NICE that it didn't matter which nano I chose to favor. Everything worked in it's OWN WAY on everything.

Please explain: if you think your released product was a good one that people enjoy, how does it make sense to change it so much one year later?

You are just turning the game into a WoW/Borderlands hybrid. It may have sort of been already, but it had its very unique aspects. Apparently, you must hate your own game if, after one year, you have to change it to be other games.

Increased damage + increased enemy difficulty = EXACTLY THE SAME GAMEPLAY. Logically... right? How could I be excited about that?

When I expressed in the past to make it to being max EGO wasn't a punishment, I definitely didn't mean by totally changing the game I have come to love.

I know people were upset about the scoring system, but the scoring system only changed the reward system. It did not change how to play overall. After mourning the death of minor arkfalls, I do enjoy the new scoring system. (But please fix it to make minors not pointless...). I have never and will never like the new grenade system. That really did take away something unique and fresh.

And new perks... woohoo. There are already enough good perks that you have to choose from. Higher levels should be able to equip more if you are adding.

What's upsetting about this is that it's going to happen no matter what. Somehow no one who is creating this cares if the game's mechanic its customers like is completely changed. I feel like no matter what we say, anywhere, it won't matter.

I play Defiance to play DEFIANCE. The way it was created, in theory.

Nefarious
03-28-2014, 10:15 AM
Defiance in its beginning had some good player leveling in that you had to be lvl 4000 to unlock all perk slots. Although having more perks did indeed give players more leeway and power, for the most part perks themselves only boost in small % or big % triggered by circumstances. So a level 4000 player was indeed stronger then a level 1000 but nothing so much in a way that would drastically separate the two.

I like the idea if it was that if a player reaches higher levels they unlock and have access to guns with more rolls, better synergies, and nano effects compared to what lower level players could get. Leveling up your current low level guns with ArkForge would bring them up to speed upon gaining higher Ego level according to their color. The guns for the most part would be the same for all Ego levels but with enough differences for higher level player from having more rolls, a synergy, a nano, and of course the amount of perks equipped and higher weapon type bonuses earned to give higher level players more then an edge to feel more powerful.

I think Trion took a turn for the worse in making everything unlock at level 1000 when they did just to make things more player friendly then turn around and change it up like this. :(

And Im not into the idea of this current system making guns having 5000+ damage. Like I get the fact its players leveling up and getting stronger...but such high numbers?? Couldn't of been that the current damage numbers for weapons stay the same and just lower everything else on low level players? Im saying this all for the sake of cleaning up the Hud when dmg numbers are activated. Its a lot cleaner to see numbers in the 50s and 100s rapidly poping up then it is in the high 1000s. ... I guess not to do it would be the psychological effect on low level players seeing the dmg of their guns getting reduced and them freaking out...

Cavadus
03-28-2014, 10:35 AM
Tampering with the EGO scaling and power progression sounds horrible. Game is permanently uninstalled after hearing this news.

What a waste.

Deunan
03-28-2014, 10:48 AM
In other words, another form of Pay to Win, which Defiance has claimed they will never allow there game to become.They also said they would never level gate content. They are doing it to great extremes now. Higher EGO rating players with matching EGO rated guns are always going to have an advantage over others at shared events. That's obvious from way the dynamic leveling is described so basically it plays out like this:

Player X is EGO rating 50 and player Y is EGO rating 4000. They both arrive at a Conflict Site at the same time to do a daily contract. The threat level escalates the mobs to a ratiing that's the average of the two, 2025.

Player Y commences to vaporize everything in sight with his EGO rating 4000 SAW. Player X is lucky if he or she gets off one or two shots on a mob because scaling doesn't affect equipment. Also Player X is rolling and dodging from any mobs aggroed on him or her that Player Y is not yet shooting because even though Player X's health has temporarily scaled up his or her shield has not resulting in shield breaking in one shot. Player X gets almost no points and therefore almost no xp, scrip or salvage and no key codes at all.

Even if dynamic scaling affects gear as well that still puts all of Player X's gear at only 2025 to Player Y's 4000 EGO rated gear. The effect is similar but less extreme.

The above is an extreme example but 2 players of disparate EGO rating at Conflict Sites happens all the time. The basic overall take from this is that the fewer players there are at an event and the larger the disparity in EGO ratings among the players, the worse the results are going to be for the lower EGO rated players.

I don't like the direction in which the game seems to be going. The last update brutally punished solo play. This one will punish low EGO rated players at shared events with high EGO rated players.

Fuzzy
03-28-2014, 10:50 AM
What do you mean by retroactive? What's likely to happen is that your weapons will remain at the same EGO level they are now. Then if you level up, you'll have to pay arkforge to level them up. Yep, that means we're going to have to spend a ton of arkforge to bring all of our favorite guns to the new cap. I'm hoping that the 1k starting package covers a significant part of that...



I fear that oour current weapons with EGO 5k won't have the increased damage as shown on the screenshots on that blog post. That's what I meant with retroactive.
ATM, every weapon at every EGO level has the same damage, it's just different from rarity to rarity. I hope that the damage gets increased for already existing weapons.
E.G. our SAWs should have about 2700 capacity as the green one in the picture posted...

Tekrunner
03-28-2014, 10:51 AM
Tampering with the EGO scaling and power progression sounds horrible. Game is permanently uninstalled after hearing this news.

What a waste.

Really? I can understand not liking these changes, but shouldn't you wait and try them when they're actually in the game before taking such a decision?

Tekrunner
03-28-2014, 10:55 AM
I fear that oour current weapons with EGO 5k won't have the increased damage as shown on the screenshots on that blog post. That's what I meant with retroactive.

If they did that, then non-DLC owners would be completely screwed. No arkforge to improve their weapons, and no weapon strong enough to make a dent in any scaled enemy and gain arkforge. I know it's Trion we're talking about, but they can't be *that* stupid.

Right?

Fuzzle
03-28-2014, 11:10 AM
Agreed Tek


I hope that the damage gets increased for already existing weapons.

I think it's safe to say this will be a change across the board for weapons. As long as it has the level indicated on the plate, it will have the damage associated with it. Otherwise they wouldn't say not to worry about those oranges you've been holding onto. It's probably just a simple math adjustment they are adding to the game where they just multiply the DMG on your gun by some multiplier of your ego.

DMG+(DMG*.002*EGO) or something to that effect.

Overtkill21
03-28-2014, 11:34 AM
So, as I enjoy poking holes in the hull of this cardboard boat Trion has built, here's another little bit I doubt they've thought about.

What about Damage Rolls?

If Damage rolls work as they do now, then they will only affect the base DMG value.

That is fine, for say a low EGO weapon where 362 DMG x1.10 DMG = 398.2 DMG (increase of 36.2 DMG points).

But how about a high EGO weapon where it does 2363 DMG but that is an EGO based increase so its base damage remains 363 - so if it then rolls a x1.10 DMG it only goes to 2399 (the same increase of 36.2 DMG points, an effective, piddly 1.5% DMG buff to the higher EGO weapon, which will now mean absolutely diddly and squat against your scaled enemies.)

So in other words our weapons will scale, the enemies will scale, even we players will scale when playing with higher EGO players…but I can guarantee Trion hasn’t thought about the need to scale the rolls.

X1.05 DMG, x1.10 DMG, DMG on last shot, DMG after Kill etc. are all about to become severely USELESS rolls on any weapon with a high or high-ish EGO, as are Power Bores, Power Chokes, and any mod that increases base DMG…mark my words.

VIC757
03-28-2014, 11:36 AM
Soooo... while the enemies have been scaling up, have the servers been scaling up too? It seems like their mortal enemy, math, will be hitting them from every angle, all the time. When math critical hits them, will they get critically killed and then hit me with a critical error?

The example pic of the saw: did you really think that we would react like noobs and think "big numbers, yay!" and that's it?

With these big # guns, how will this affect teamwork points in the scoring system? Obviously, the bigger guns kills faster, so should my friends and I keep our low guns low so we can get more teamwork points to get higher points and newer, better guns? If that's what you have intended, then perhaps I'll keep some low guns specifically to farm for big # guns, shields, etc.

Lucent
03-28-2014, 12:13 PM
Vic, I was thinking about that too. Lower guns for arenas?

Fuzzle
03-28-2014, 12:33 PM
With these big # guns, how will this affect teamwork points in the scoring system? Obviously, the bigger guns kills faster, so should my friends and I keep our low guns low so we can get more teamwork points to get higher points and newer, better guns? If that's what you have intended, then perhaps I'll keep some low guns specifically to farm for big # guns, shields, etc.

That's a misconception with how teamwork points work. Teamwork points are awarded to everyone who has damaged the mob in a given time period every time 500 damage has been done to the enemy (3s was what was stated). You shouldn't lose out on teamwork points unless they have changed the point scaling. You would actually likely get more teamwork points due to creatures scaling up and having more health.

Opportunist points are more like a personal version of this when a creature has a nano effect dot on them, which is what you could potentially miss out on with more players there.

ironcladtrash
03-28-2014, 12:35 PM
Is arkforge awarded randomly? It doesn't sound like we can actually work towards earning any of it legitimately and again are at the mercy of the effing horrible RNG.

"Arkforge, a new currency available from lock boxes and events"

Please tell me I am wrong.

Overtkill21
03-28-2014, 12:49 PM
The more that I think about this - the more that I get very uneasy...

Now one could say to remain optimistic and to believe that the Trion team has thought of all of the collateral damage (shields, grenades, pvp, damage rolls, etc.) to a change such as this and has compensated for it.

However, using history as a guide - you couldn't say it with a straight face.

Shogo_Yahagi
03-28-2014, 12:50 PM
Oh and btw, this Volge with a crown on his head is ridiculous, you souldn't have fired the designer guy that makes the game originaly.
That's a crown? I thought he was showing up late for Kwanzaa.

Nefarious
03-28-2014, 01:02 PM
Look at all these questions and assumptions on how this will all work. Everyone one of them being different.

No one knows. And we are going to have to wait till next weeks live stream to get official answers?

























http://f2.thejournal.ie/media/2013/09/sheldon-throwing-papers-gif.gif

REAVER781
03-28-2014, 01:02 PM
Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing even remotely scary to any of these three re-skins. If anything, I think they look cute and cuddly... makes me want to run up and hug them.

But then again, I was quite the horror movie fiend in high school so it takes a lot to scare me... :)

I think they look like Digimon :P

hardy83
03-28-2014, 01:27 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/284/922/0e3.png

A LOT of questions though, but it sounds good.



You’ll get 1,000 Arkforge as part of the Chimera Arktech Kit that comes with the purchase of Arktech Revolution, along with a special outfit, title, new Chimera contracts and vendor, pursuits, perks, and more.

This also sounds like one of the better DLC rewards out of the 5 DLCs (DLC2 with daily/weeklies is pretty close though).
However, I hope the perks aren't unbalanced. While I am a DLC owners, it shouldn't gimp non-DLC owners.

VIC757
03-28-2014, 01:33 PM
That's a misconception with how teamwork points work. Teamwork points are awarded to everyone who has damaged the mob in a given time period every time 500 damage has been done to the enemy (3s was what was stated). You shouldn't lose out on teamwork points unless they have changed the point scaling. You would actually likely get more teamwork points due to creatures scaling up and having more health.

Opportunist points are more like a personal version of this when a creature has a nano effect dot on them, which is what you could potentially miss out on with more players there.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Is it sad that I learn more about the game from the forums community than the game devs? Heck, I learn more from YouTube sometimes than from the live streams.

maverick07
03-28-2014, 01:40 PM
So, as I enjoy poking holes in the hull of this cardboard boat Trion has built, here's another little bit I doubt they've thought about.

What about Damage Rolls?

If Damage rolls work as they do now, then they will only affect the base DMG value.

That is fine, for say a low EGO weapon where 362 DMG x1.10 DMG = 398.2 DMG (increase of 36.2 DMG points).

But how about a high EGO weapon where it does 2363 DMG but that is an EGO based increase so its base damage remains 363 - so if it then rolls a x1.10 DMG it only goes to 2399 (the same increase of 36.2 DMG points, an effective, piddly 1.5% DMG buff to the higher EGO weapon, which will now mean absolutely diddly and squat against your scaled enemies.)

So in other words our weapons will scale, the enemies will scale, even we players will scale when playing with higher EGO players…but I can guarantee Trion hasn’t thought about the need to scale the rolls.

X1.05 DMG, x1.10 DMG, DMG on last shot, DMG after Kill etc. are all about to become severely USELESS rolls on any weapon with a high or high-ish EGO, as are Power Bores, Power Chokes, and any mod that increases base DMG…mark my words.

DMG is multiplicative now. It was changed with the update that gave the DMG by rarity. But no telling how they are going to factor this into the formula. Will probably break something :D.

Overtkill21
03-28-2014, 01:54 PM
DMG is multiplicative now. It was changed with the update that gave the DMG by rarity. But no telling how they are going to factor this into the formula. Will probably break something :D.

By multiplicative - what do you mean? That the DMG rolls affect the weapon's current DMG and not the base "white" level damage? (so an orange VBI AR with a x1.10 DMG is multiplying that by the orange base damage level and not the white?)

Even if so, I find it doubtful that they did factor it into the formula...big ideas, poor implementation has been my experience with Trion thus far - I doubt it will change.

maverick07
03-28-2014, 02:17 PM
By multiplicative - what do you mean? That the DMG rolls affect the weapon's current DMG and not the base "white" level damage? (so an orange VBI AR with a x1.10 DMG is multiplying that by the orange base damage level and not the white?)

Even if so, I find it doubtful that they did factor it into the formula...big ideas, poor implementation has been my experience with Trion thus far - I doubt it will change.

Yep. It multiplies each bonus. It's a little confusing because it used to be add them to the base value. That update changed it though ninja style.

Examples from couple ARs I have
VBI AR - 220 (base) * 1.15 (OJ) * 1.07 (barrel) * 1.05 (AR skill) = 284.245 rounds to 284
FRC AC - 300 (base) * 1.15 * 1.07 * 1.05 * 1.10 (OJ roll) = 426.368 rounds to 426

I hope that this bonus is factored in that way. Guess we'll find out.

Overtkill21
03-28-2014, 02:35 PM
Yep. It multiplies each bonus. It's a little confusing because it used to be add them to the base value. That update changed it though ninja style.

Examples from couple ARs I have
VBI AR - 220 (base) * 1.15 (OJ) * 1.07 (barrel) * 1.05 (AR skill) = 284.245 rounds to 284
FRC AC - 300 (base) * 1.15 * 1.07 * 1.05 * 1.10 (OJ roll) = 426.368 rounds to 426

I hope that this bonus is factored in that way. Guess we'll find out.

Ahh, well if the "EGO" bonus is just added to the string of multipliers then it should be a non-factor to DMG rolls. But of course - I've said such things on here before - then, Trion.

Fuzzle
03-28-2014, 02:49 PM
Thanks for clearing that up for me. Is it sad that I learn more about the game from the forums community than the game devs? Heck, I learn more from YouTube sometimes than from the live streams.

Although it wasn't on a stream, the information was actually posted by Trick (dev) here on the forums. Check it out, it's worth the read.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?153224-So-new-scoring-system-use-crap-guns&p=1441236#post1441236

InfamousBrad
03-28-2014, 04:43 PM
Aha, so that's what Threat Level is. I'm surprised by how much weapon damage will increase with EGO. And well, a bit skeptical too. This brings back memories of the little time I spent in Firefall, where the quality of my gear felt like it mattered way more than my personal ability to aim, move and dodge.

Then again right now EGO 5000 characters are just steamrolling everything, so more scaling all around should only make things better at high level.

If I'm reading this right ... and I'm far from sure that I am ... as soon as an EGO 5000 character wanders into an area with his gun that does 8 times as much damage, the enemies will magically acquire 4 times the hit points. (Averaging him and the other person running the mission.) That way he can do 80% of the damage and the other person can do 20% of the damage, which is good because ...

I got nothing. Either I'm missing something or this is the dumbest idea since laying off the entire content production team.

Atticus Batman
03-28-2014, 06:06 PM
So something I hadn't thought of - our Grenades need to, once again, have an EGO level. Unless you think a Frag doing 5000 DMG as accompaniment to a SAW doing 3000 DMG a bullet is funny or something...


Hate to break it to you, but they never completely removed ego levels on grenades. The ones that you had before the grenade change still have egos, they are just hidden. I transfered my Oj Flashbang (witch I got at ego 230) to a new character. That poor ego 58 can't eguip it. So I had a friend with an ego 140 try, still a no go. But since I remembered what ego it had before the patch, I had a friend with a ego 229 character use it, no go, but the moment he leveled to 230, he was able to equip it.

So oddity, or hidden egos on pre-patch nades like I beleive?

hardy83
03-28-2014, 06:12 PM
If I'm reading this right ... and I'm far from sure that I am ... as soon as an EGO 5000 character wanders into an area with his gun that does 8 times as much damage, the enemies will magically acquire 4 times the hit points. (Averaging him and the other person running the mission.) That way he can do 80% of the damage and the other person can do 20% of the damage, which is good because ...

I got nothing. Either I'm missing something or this is the dumbest idea since laying off the entire content production team.

Low level EGO players will get buffed too.

MrChump
03-28-2014, 06:57 PM
I don't like this levelling stuff at all.
I have been playing for 2 days and have been invited to a clan on my playing ability not what level I am.

This type of change could quickly kill this game, tbh I can't be bothered to play a game where you end up with a noob status and a bunch of hollow noob clans for new players.

So far I have found the other players really friendly all working together and you can be a beginner but still useful to a group.

I think these levelling changes will negatively alter this player dynamic and Defiance will just blend in with all the other MMO's.

Rather than try and squeeze a few more bucks out of loyal long term players(and possible alienate new ones), just put some more money into advertising to attract new players when the new season of Defiance comes out on TV.

Amack
03-28-2014, 09:39 PM
They also said they would never level gate content. They are doing it to great extremes now. Higher EGO rating players with matching EGO rated guns are always going to have an advantage over others at shared events. That's obvious from way the dynamic leveling is described so basically it plays out like this:

Player X is EGO rating 50 and player Y is EGO rating 4000. They both arrive at a Conflict Site at the same time to do a daily contract. The threat level escalates the mobs to a ratiing that's the average of the two, 2025.

Player Y commences to vaporize everything in sight with his EGO rating 4000 SAW. Player X is lucky if he or she gets off one or two shots on a mob because scaling doesn't affect equipment. Also Player X is rolling and dodging from any mobs aggroed on him or her that Player Y is not yet shooting because even though Player X's health has temporarily scaled up his or her shield has not resulting in shield breaking in one shot. Player X gets almost no points and therefore almost no xp, scrip or salvage and no key codes at all.

Even if dynamic scaling affects gear as well that still puts all of Player X's gear at only 2025 to Player Y's 4000 EGO rated gear. The effect is similar but less extreme.

The above is an extreme example but 2 players of disparate EGO rating at Conflict Sites happens all the time. The basic overall take from this is that the fewer players there are at an event and the larger the disparity in EGO ratings among the players, the worse the results are going to be for the lower EGO rated players.

I don't like the direction in which the game seems to be going. The last update brutally punished solo play. This one will punish low EGO rated players at shared events with high EGO rated players.

"With any luck, we'll see more endeavors where the balance of power returns to the product creators and the audiences they're trying to serve in the most direct relationship possible -- where everyone involved is a "product person" whose sole mission is to best serve the customer. That's powerful and exciting.

My commentary back then was more about F2P conversions that alienate existing customers and end up being counterproductive to the long term health of a service -- the ones where content or level gates get added as quickly as possible, advancement rates get slowed down, a store gets added, and developers hope enough of their problems get solved in the precious little time they have to do the job." - Scott Hartsman

Bonehead
03-28-2014, 10:41 PM
"With any luck, we'll see more endeavors where the balance of power returns to the product creators and the audiences they're trying to serve in the most direct relationship possible -- where everyone involved is a "product person" whose sole mission is to best serve the customer. That's powerful and exciting.

My commentary back then was more about F2P conversions that alienate existing customers and end up being counterproductive to the long term health of a service -- the ones where content or level gates get added as quickly as possible, advancement rates get slowed down, a store gets added, and developers hope enough of their problems get solved in the precious little time they have to do the job." - Scott Hartsman

Another paradigm bites the dust.

Deunan
03-28-2014, 11:10 PM
Low level EGO players will get buffed too.They get an EGO rating buff but their weapons are what they are so they won't be doing more damage, they'll just have better survivability because of boosted health from higher EGO rating. Neither the mobs nor the lower EGO rated players will get buffed up to the same EGO rating as the EGO rating 5000 player so he or she will always have a damage advantage over the lower EGO rated players.

Fuzzle
03-28-2014, 11:17 PM
They get an EGO rating buff but their weapons are what they are so they won't be doing more damage

Do you have a source for that? I didn't see anything saying their weapons wouldn't scale with ego. Actually I thought it would be the opposite. Weapon damage would be based off ego level now, so wouldn't a temporary EGO boost equate to a temporary damage boost?

It doesn't negate the fact that the high ego players will be out damaging/scoring the lower ones, but I'm just curious where the notion that damage wouldn't scale is coming from?

Edit: Hmm, regularly guns wouldn't be scaling to your ego automatically, thus the need for Arkforge. I see where you're coming from now. It's still possible damage can be boosted with the ego buff though, right?

Deunan
03-28-2014, 11:59 PM
Edit: Hmm, regularly guns wouldn't be scaling to your ego automatically, thus the need for Arkforge. I see where you're coming from now. It's still possible damage can be boosted with the ego buff though, right?It's possible but that still won't bring your damage up to the same level as the EGO 5000 rated weapons. That's why the article clearly says you're not going to have the same advantage that the EGO 5000 player has when you get buffed. Higher EGO rated players will always have a damage advantage.

I hope it does buff your damage but remember that with the new scoring system you can get a decent amount of points even if you're not doing a lot of damage which may be one of the reasons it works the way it does. If the scoring system stays static in terms of the damage threshold for when teamwork points tick then we should see even higher teamwork rewards since mobs will have more health. Lower EGO rated players may not care that they're getting outgunned by higher EGO rated players under that kind of circumstance.

Erei
03-29-2014, 12:31 AM
In short, all my weapons I have been hoarding (and using) since the release of the game, the ones I was happy to find/drop which are low ego now (I have about 40guns in my inventory), will be useless unless I pay some ungodly amount of cash. Sure I can farm events and boxes to have what I need, but since my weapons are crap, I'll need some other weapons. Weapons I will not like, or crappy gun from the generic vendor. So I have a choice to either spend a lot of cash, grind like a Chinese gold farmer with crappy guns, or sell all my inventory, an inventory I spent about a year to make.
And what for ? Congratulation, you successfully made a new SWG NGE. I don't think SOE is hiring right now, but I'm sure they would be proud of you.

As for the DLC itself, I'm glad you put some paying content in it, once our season pass is over. Meanwhile, what do we had for DLC 3 as paying customer ? An outfit, a title and a lockbox full of crap that was sold immediately, unless you were extra lucky.

I'm really happy you guys know how to say "thank you" to the people that paid for this game right from the beginning. Btw, "thank" start with "th", not "fu".

Time to uninstall this game, and never look back. Buying the collector edition was one of my biggest mistake in my gamer life. And that include buying age of conan when it was released, pre-ordering ME3, and buying Tabula Rasa collector edition 1 months before they announced the game was canceled. That say something.

Atticus Batman
03-29-2014, 12:51 AM
In short, all my weapons I have been hoarding (and using) since the release of the game, the ones I was happy to find/drop which are low ego now (I have about 40guns in my inventory), will be useless unless I pay some ungodly amount of cash. Sure I can farm events and boxes to have what I need, but since my weapons are crap, I'll need some other weapons. Weapons I will not like, or crappy gun from the generic vendor. So I have a choice to either spend a lot of cash, grind like a Chinese gold farmer with crappy guns, or sell all my inventory, an inventory I spent about a year to make.
And what for ? Congratulation, you successfully made a new SWG NGE. I don't think SOE is hiring right now, but I'm sure they would be proud of you.

As for the DLC itself, I'm glad you put some paying content in it, once our season pass is over. Meanwhile, what do we had for DLC 3 as paying customer ? An outfit, a title and a lockbox full of crap that was sold immediately, unless you were extra lucky.

I'm really happy you guys know how to say "thank you" to the people that paid for this game right from the beginning. Btw, "thank" start with "th", not "fu".

Time to uninstall this game, and never look back. Buying the collector edition was one of my biggest mistake in my gamer life. And that include buying age of conan when it was released, pre-ordering ME3, and buying Tabula Rasa collector edition 1 months before they announced the game was canceled. That say something.

Hate to break it to you, but any gun you got from the beginning of the game is already useless. The gun-patch from this summer, rendered all the pre-patch guns obsolete. As for all your other guns, they will still be useful just not as powerful.

Oh and almost everyone who has been here from the beginning has been asking for these changes.

It finally gives us a reason to be high level egos, instead of just screwing us.

Atticus Batman
03-29-2014, 01:05 AM
I don't like this levelling stuff at all.
I have been playing for 2 days and have been invited to a clan on my playing ability not what level I am.

This type of change could quickly kill this game, tbh I can't be bothered to play a game where you end up with a noob status and a bunch of hollow noob clans for new players.

So far I have found the other players really friendly all working together and you can be a beginner but still useful to a group.

I think these levelling changes will negatively alter this player dynamic and Defiance will just blend in with all the other MMO's.

Rather than try and squeeze a few more bucks out of loyal long term players(and possible alienate new ones), just put some more money into advertising to attract new players when the new season of Defiance comes out on TV.

You really are new. They have never done anything for the long term players. The focus has ALWAYS been to get new players in her. As a matter of fact you got screwed repeatedly, once you were over ego 3000. Why be a high ego? Everyone else did the same damage. IF you didn't do pursuits then you stop gaining experience by ego 3000. If you did manage to get to ego 5000, any pursuits you did after that didn't give you anything, and you barely contribute exp to clan activities, since you no longer gain exp.

All they did at every turn was alienate the LONG-TERM players. The recently removed some requirements from pursuits so they would be easy for the new players to get, they removed the Bot from the San Fran bridge, so new players wouldn't feel locked out of an area. They lowered the requirement to unlock all the perk slots in a loadout from 4000 to 1000, so new players wouldn't complain. They nerfed ALL the bosses so you new players have a chance to beat them, by yourselve, then they made all missions co-op to better help you new players. The prices in the salvage matrix screw us. 75k to add 1 mod slot to an orange weapon? Really?

This is the VERY first thing they have done that would make being a high ego good. I know you are VERY new but there was never any reason to get past level 4000, before, then after they lowered the per slot unlock to 1000, there was never a reason to get past 1000.

Tsort
03-29-2014, 05:01 AM
Oh and almost everyone who has been here from the beginning has been asking for these changes.
No. Some people have, no question. But other people have stated they played the game especially because it was different.

I don't have the numbers. I won't claim which side wins. But even if we're 50/50, Trion could have devoted their time to something else. Map extensions, new mobs, new co-ops, new quest. Things 99% of the players agree on and have demanded since the beginning too.

Everybody would have been happy about a solid new content DLC. Instead Trion decided to change gameplay YET AGAIN, antagonizing a good portion of the players. It's their choice, it's their game. I'll let them look at the stats and see if it was a good idea. But personally, if this is another clusterf*ck, I might not be here anymore.

Blondin
03-29-2014, 05:35 AM
Hate to break it to you, but they never completely removed ego levels on grenades.
...
So oddity, or hidden egos on pre-patch nades like I beleive?
Still, this is a proof of a complete lack of a plan on Trion's part, they took the EGO away from grenades, now they change the system implying you need an EGO on grenades... that shows a lot of uncompetence



Oh and almost everyone who has been here from the beginning has been asking for these changes.

Hate to break it to you, but like said Tsort, not everyone, in fact I guess there is a lot of ppl that play Defiance because it is not like the other MMO out there (atleast Tsort and me!!), not with a false illusionic vertical progression. Here, noobs and vets can compete in the same game (PvE or PvP), here you don't have to farm or grind to do all the content in the game together (ok, all the content is not that much, but...).



It finally gives us a reason to be high level egos, instead of just screwing us.
I'm surprised that a vet like you didn't figure out that Trion didn't want to give high EGO a reason to level up, they just wanted you to farm and buy arkforge.
Seriously, what will be changed for high EGO?
You will be able to do 10000 damages to mobs, yeah but they will have more health, so the ratio of number of shoot will be the same.
You will have to spend a ton of arkforge if you want to level up your weapons to high EGO, and if you don't do it, your weapon will be crap against a health full mob.

High EGO toons don't need a new illusionic system,
high EGO toons need content, something like endgame, content!!

(please don't tell me that endgame content will come in season 2... I already paid a season pass one year ago for that)

bigguy
03-29-2014, 06:58 AM
Is it me or does anyone else feel like they are making our old weapons obsolete again unless we upgrade them , and of course to upgrade them you wil need impossible to get arkforge unless you buy with bits. Maybe im wrong but this sounds fishy to me almost pay to win again

Arsenic_Touch
03-29-2014, 07:02 AM
Is it me or does anyone else feel like they are making our old weapons obsolete again unless we upgrade them , and of course to upgrade them you wil need impossible to get arkforge unless you buy with bits. Maybe im wrong but this sounds fishy to me almost pay to win again

Impossible to get yet it clearly says you can earn it through lockboxes and in game events?
You don't have to upgrade all of your old weapons, in fact you're not going to want to.
The whole point of the upgrade is to up your favorite set of weapons and find new loot.

I am surprised at some of the responses about the threads about DLC 5. They're finally giving a purpose to higher egos, They're finally putting the carrot on the stick instead of beating you with the stick like they previously did. (You do know the whole point of an ark hunter is to chase the carrot, right?) they're finally changing the scaling of content.

The current system was never sustainable and it got stale quickly. A power creep with upscaling for players to cut back on segregation works fine and isn't the end of the world and it works in other games just fine. The only downside I see so far is for pvp, but the way they explained it for pve, it's not a bad change.

Blondin
03-29-2014, 07:22 AM
The whole point of the upgrade is to up your favorite set of weapons and find new loot.
What do I do with all my others weapons?
Salvage them?
So why did I bought inventory slots to stock them?


I am surprised at some of the responses about the threads about DLC 5. They're finally giving a purpose to higher egos, They're finally putting the carrot on the stick instead of beating you with the stick like they previously did.
And what is this purpose?
Farming arkforge? I already farmed scrip and salvage, why can't I use them?
And what is the carrot? doing 10.000 damages? ok but mobs have more health too, so it's the same, finally what is the carrot? Doing exclusive endgame content? oh no there is not.

ironcladtrash
03-29-2014, 07:32 AM
Impossible to get yet it clearly says you can earn it through lockboxes and in game events?


This is the part I want to know. Eventually we will be able to use this get different mastery rolls to fix the useless ones that the horrible RNG gave us. This sounds like it will be a small chance to get it. For example technically you can earn legendary tach mags from lockboxes and events and I haven't seen one in 1800 hours. I want to know did they really implement another RNG to help fix their awful RNG.

As far as all the other changes I do kinda like the sound of some of it and will give my 5k toon something else to do.

Blondin
03-29-2014, 07:35 AM
Eventually we will be able to use this get different mastery rolls to fix the useless ones that the horrible RNG gave us.
It will give you a chance to reroll, new rng, in fact.

ironcladtrash
03-29-2014, 07:42 AM
It will give you a chance to reroll, new rng, in fact.

Even though I would prefer to pick it I am OK with this just because it's better then the current method of not being able to and stuck with bad mastery rolls. However the question I really want to know is if it's an RNG chance to even get Arkforge? If so that sounds awful.

bigguy
03-29-2014, 07:59 AM
My point is this , what if they make the amount of arkforge required to upgrade a given weapon so much that it takes even the most hardcore player a week to earn in game and therefore you can only upgrade one weapon per week. I have at least 20 weapons that i love and use for different situations with different nanos so on and so forth. If i dont want it to take forever to upgrade them all i might feel forced to buy bits to get it done faster , why would they say u can buy it with bits upfront like that unless they thought it would be hard to come by.

ironcladtrash
03-29-2014, 08:05 AM
My point is this , what if they make the amount of arkforge required to upgrade a given weapon so much that it takes even the most hardcore player a week to earn in game and therefore you can only upgrade one weapon per week. I have at least 20 weapons that i love and use for different situations with different nanos so on and so forth. If i dont want it to take forever to upgrade them all i might feel forced to buy bits to get it done faster , why would they say u can buy it with bits upfront like that unless they thought it would be hard to come by.

I have a feeling you are absolutely right too and exactly what I was thinking. It will be too hard to come by. I hope we are wrong and it will be the first thing I try to find out when the alpha server goes live. I hope this isn't the case but Trion has no track record for giving us anything we have asked for and they put everything in the bits store.

CRIXDA
03-29-2014, 09:38 AM
"Arkdrek Revulsion : The Getaway."

All of these cute changes sound wonderful, don't they?
Sure they do.

And the little ball is under one of the 3 cups in front of You!
(Idiots. It is already safely in my pocket.)
$40.00 per guess as to what You receive WHEN you find the ball under one of the cups!!
:( AAAWWWWWWWWWWW. :(
Why are You angry? I'll give You 5 tries for Your $40.!
:( X 4 more times.

Still mad?
But You came here to ride the big rollercoaster and You STILL get to ride It all You want to when it works!
Yeah, It slows down inexplicably often and sometimes It will eject You and It crashes.
We'll keep on patching it up and trying to fix it, though. Enjoy the "company" carnival!
Oh hey......there is a ride over there called "Rifter" that works really good and We maintain it really nice because We LIKE it a lot better. Maybe You should try IT instead.


End-Game, Blondin?
The conspiritorial giggle that sounded when You pressed "enter" to execute Your Season's Farce WAS the End-Game.
Sorry

Angeleus09
03-29-2014, 11:08 AM
Yep. It multiplies each bonus. It's a little confusing because it used to be add them to the base value. That update changed it though ninja style.

Examples from couple ARs I have
VBI AR - 220 (base) * 1.15 (OJ) * 1.07 (barrel) * 1.05 (AR skill) = 284.245 rounds to 284
FRC AC - 300 (base) * 1.15 * 1.07 * 1.05 * 1.10 (OJ roll) = 426.368 rounds to 426

I hope that this bonus is factored in that way. Guess we'll find out.

That's a great example, thanks for posting. Just a couple questions though:

For the VBI AR, the first roll you listed was the 1.15 (OJ) and for the FRC the last roll you listed was 1.10 (OJ roll). Did you list them that way because they are different types of rolls? In the order you listed the stats it reads like the carbine's OJ roll is a mastery roll whereas the rifle's OJ roll is a multiplier it gets just for being legendary, is that the case?

Is the 1.05 listed on the FRC your AR skill? Thanks in advance.

Sonic7870
03-29-2014, 11:28 AM
Some of my clan mates and friends have raised some questions regarding "Legendaries from vendors" exactly which vendors in particular will have purchasable Legendaries the supply vendors special offers, the hidden vendors, any if the faction vendors or the vendor that comes with the new dlc.

Also what will non dlc players be getting in the new update as well?

Tekrunner
03-29-2014, 11:30 AM
That's a great example, thanks for posting. Just a couple questions though:

For the VBI AR, the first roll you listed was the 1.15 (OJ) and for the FRC the last roll you listed was 1.10 (OJ roll). Did you list them that way because they are different types of rolls? In the order you listed the stats it reads like the carbine's OJ roll is a mastery roll whereas the rifle's OJ roll is a multiplier it gets just for being legendary, is that the case?

Is the 1.05 listed on the FRC your AR skill? Thanks in advance.

Yes. No. Yes. In that order.

The first 1.15 multiplier is the damage bonus that both weapons get for being legendaries. Common weapons get x1.03, uncommon x1.06, epic x1.10, legendary x1.15. x1.05 is the bonus that he gets from having his AR skill at level 20. x1.10 on the FRC AC is the weapon's orange roll. The VBI has a different roll (either x1.25 mag or x1.10 fire rate).

Here's another explanation of the same thing: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?143936-Damage-formula&highlight=weapon+damage+formula


I have a feeling you are absolutely right too and exactly what I was thinking. It will be too hard to come by. I hope we are wrong and it will be the first thing I try to find out when the alpha server goes live. I hope this isn't the case but Trion has no track record for giving us anything we have asked for and they put everything in the bits store.

Trion also has a track record of 1) not making store purchases necessary to have an enjoyable playing experience and 2) setting high bits prices for store items (see legendary lockboxes, or compare the bits price of a T4 lockbox with the time it takes to get 64 keys by just playing). So I'm fairly hopeful that store purchases of arkforge won't be necessary. But I won't stick around for long if they are.

Nefarious
03-29-2014, 11:53 AM
Some of my clan mates and friends have raised some questions regarding "Legendaries from vendors" exactly which vendors in particular will have purchasable Legendaries the supply vendors special offers, the hidden vendors, any if the faction vendors or the vendor that comes with the new dlc.


From what was mentioned from a past stream was that they would show up randomly as specials from the normal vendors.

If so Im willing to be that the RNG chance for them to do so will be the same as a lockbox.

Arsenic_Touch
03-29-2014, 12:03 PM
From what was mentioned from a past stream was that they would show up randomly as specials from the normal vendors.

If so Im willing to be that the RNG chance for them to do so will be the same as a lockbox.

I recall very early on (as in back in april and may) that they did show up as vendor specials very rarely. When the timer would reset, it would cycle some guns and then show one. You would see an orange flash and a gun that was orange but it would only be for an instance before another gun took it's place. Even recall seeing an orange right before it did the cycle.

hardy83
03-29-2014, 12:24 PM
It's possible they could make OJs normal items on vendors.

However I doubt they will be the "best" of that weapon type as well as probably being ridiculously expensive on top of probably requiring a lot of rep with a faction.

bigguy
03-29-2014, 12:27 PM
They will also cost special tokens that you have to earn by completing events in hard mode , if memory serves correctly

MrChump
03-29-2014, 01:32 PM
You really are new. They have never done anything for the long term players. The focus has ALWAYS been to get new players in her. As a matter of fact you got screwed repeatedly, once you were over ego 3000. Why be a high ego? Everyone else did the same damage. IF you didn't do pursuits then you stop gaining experience by ego 3000. If you did manage to get to ego 5000, any pursuits you did after that didn't give you anything, and you barely contribute exp to clan activities, since you no longer gain exp.

All they did at every turn was alienate the LONG-TERM players. The recently removed some requirements from pursuits so they would be easy for the new players to get, they removed the Bot from the San Fran bridge, so new players wouldn't feel locked out of an area. They lowered the requirement to unlock all the perk slots in a loadout from 4000 to 1000, so new players wouldn't complain. They nerfed ALL the bosses so you new players have a chance to beat them, by yourselve, then they made all missions co-op to better help you new players. The prices in the salvage matrix screw us. 75k to add 1 mod slot to an orange weapon? Really?

This is the VERY first thing they have done that would make being a high ego good. I know you are VERY new but there was never any reason to get past level 4000, before, then after they lowered the per slot unlock to 1000, there was never a reason to get past 1000.

I totally agree that LONG-TERM players should be rewarded and I think that unlocking areas and slots seemed the best way to go.
As for bosses I think that they should all be a team play event, players are friendly enough that this shouldn't be an issue. The short time I have been playing I have had 3 clan invites.
Last night I fought along side a load of other players fighting the end boss hellbug, I came 4th through pitching in a supporting others players(Lower kills but high score) rather than 'hey I have harder bulllets than everyone else'.

But as like probably most people who play Defiance I have played quite a few MMO such as Metin, Anarchy Online, Eve, DC Universe which are all fine games. But ultimately they are character statistics games rather than player skill games.
The reason I haven't stayed with these games is that I don't have massive amounts of time to put into a game, I'm happy to put some money into a game provided it's not the only way to compete.
Gamer skill should count for something, not just how much time and money you can throw at a game.

But we'll see if it just turns into another stat ego MMO.

Irteip Zeugirdor
03-29-2014, 01:53 PM
Is it just me that gets the impression that the new Volge characters look like a smoothie made out of a mix between the Covenant in Halo and some of the alien races in Mass Effect??(Krogans, Vorcha, Turians). Which is nothing new since Varus Soleptor looks like a mix between Volus and Batarian. 2 more aliens races on Mass Effect.

Angeleus09
03-29-2014, 08:52 PM
Yes. No. Yes. In that order.

The first 1.15 multiplier is the damage bonus that both weapons get for being legendaries. Common weapons get x1.03, uncommon x1.06, epic x1.10, legendary x1.15. x1.05 is the bonus that he gets from having his AR skill at level 20. x1.10 on the FRC AC is the weapon's orange roll. The VBI has a different roll (either x1.25 mag or x1.10 fire rate).

Here's another explanation of the same thing: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?143936-Damage-formula&highlight=weapon+damage+formula

Thanks for the reply, that's what I needed to know.

Magick
03-30-2014, 01:58 AM
Well here is my thoughts! I like to feel powerful and see progression in game why else lvl up? Tell me one balanced mmo? I've played beta + now this is closure lets see what tricks Dempsey has up up his sleeve.
LMAO who am I'm kidding.

Bryce Davidson
03-30-2014, 09:11 AM
Seeing lots of negative comments about the game since I departed when XBO dropped. Well now I'm back and honestly, I'm looking forward to getting on tonight to check out all the stuff that happened while I was gone. That's just me though. I loved the game when I left, hopefully that will remain the same when I get online tonight.

Overtkill21
03-30-2014, 01:14 PM
Hate to break it to you, but they never completely removed ego levels on grenades. The ones that you had before the grenade change still have egos, they are just hidden. I transfered my Oj Flashbang (witch I got at ego 230) to a new character. That poor ego 58 can't eguip it. So I had a friend with an ego 140 try, still a no go. But since I remembered what ego it had before the patch, I had a friend with a ego 229 character use it, no go, but the moment he leveled to 230, he was able to equip it.

So oddity, or hidden egos on pre-patch nades like I beleive?

No need to hate to break anything to me - this WAS the case for a month or two after Grenade change but since then, this was fixed and nades are all EGO 1 now. I pulled one very recently (EGO 4332) and traded it to a noob at EGO level in the hundreds - he equipped it immediately and started spawning hatchlings everywhere.

Ghost Exx
03-30-2014, 02:57 PM
this is really pissing me off, is the alpha test server on ?. because its pissing me off A LOT

CRIXDA
03-30-2014, 08:33 PM
EGO isn't going to mean anything anymore.
You can give a noob a grenade and whoop-dee-shee-ut It works as it intended.
There isn't going to be any merit whatsoever to the grind.
Day One Warriors aren't going to mean anything anymore.
A 5000 EGO isn't going to mean anymore than a 150.
The Monolith guarding the bridge into 'Frisco is gone.
"Can't have anything stopping a new player from enjoying all that Defiance has to offer...." You know, like EARNING passage across by actually doing the storyline?????

So that Grenade deal pissed You off, Overtkill?
I feel You.
So, what do We do now?

I am fresh out of ideas.
Samurai, Cowboys and a game mechanic rework.
Someone asked a page or two ago....: "what do the non-paid dlc players get?"
Same as before, dude:
EVERYTHING.

lifeexpectancy
03-30-2014, 10:56 PM
Making co op maps harder is not DownLoadable CONTENT.

Changing in-game mechanics is not DownLoadable CONTENT.

Giving enemies a re-skin and tweaking their AI or hitpoints is NOT DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT.

WHERE THE HECK IS THE content ADVERTISED IN THE SEASON PASS TRION! You know, the one that mentioned new areas to explore and "tons of new content" over the course of a year? The one that you blatantly, falsely advertised? To date we've only seen the Warmaster and Minor Arkbreaks as the only REAL content in ANY of these DLC packs. This 5th one is the worst of the bunch and is nothing but a glorified title update. It's even worse than the "incursion" one (you know, those emergencies and seiges slapped together and rebranded as something new?) How is your company still in business pulling shtako like this?

Your company as a developer is on par with EA as a publisher in my book of worst crooks in the gaming industry.

CRIXDA
03-31-2014, 05:05 AM
Lifeexpectancy,
I want to say two things here and both are hard to say but I Totally AGREE with every ounce of Your righteous anger and I also disagree with it. I won't go into the time to qualify everything on all points, this isn't the thread for that.
Over the year-long "Season" that the "Pass" has meant to cover (until the television show re-airs It's next season), Ownders of that "Season's Pass" were meant to receive five DLCs.
Sure, We can argue that "as long as they somehow digitize the sound of an un-named Trion employee farting over and over" and We get that everytime We hit the " X " button, then THAT qualifies as DLC because WE downloaded it and IT is new content for the game.
Some reading this would and most assuredly WILL argue that the feature I described as "DLC" is more or less what We have received for Our "Season's Pass" dollars.
It is sad to see that "filling the legal terms of the contract" in giving us new areas to explore is showing us only the inside of the Warmaster's Chamber and some of the Gunslinger Arenas. (The Berk Academy is my favorite of all defiance landscapes, period.)
Throught the entire year-long Season, favor has been shown completely to the "Free Radicals" or non paying DLC player, DLC owners really don't get much for the money that they paid for the DLC except the rights to shoot the guns but there are ways around that too.
As far as "tons of new content", well.

This DLC Season has left quite probably 99.6% of us very bitter and cynical about the practices of "The Company" and how It goes about things.
We feel sad for the developers who say "Man, It would be cool if We could..." and then are told no.
We feel bad for a Lead Developer who is a really good guy who has been painted in a bad light because his hands are tied and He can't do what He wants to save a game that He loves and HE PLAYS THE SH!!T OUT OF.
We feel bad because We love a game and the game is in the hands of "The Company" who doesn't care about It and keeps giving us "Patches" instead of proper DLCs, to keep veteran players interested and to get this great game out of the bargain bin.
I don't think that DLC five is going to help anything.

N3gativeCr33p
03-31-2014, 06:05 AM
This DLC Season has left quite probably 99.6% of us very bitter and cynical about the practices of "The Company" and how It goes about things.

Pretty much nailed it right here... with the lack of fresh CONTENT the game bores me to tears, and I can't stay logged in for more than 20-30 minutes. Thankfully, other games that I own do not have the same problem.

Dazvolt
03-31-2014, 06:36 AM
What I liked about Defiance, is that the EGO rating does not heavily affect the gameplay. You can do anything with people at any EGO rating. And now developers are creating a bunch of problems, and then loudly call it DLC. It seems to me that the game loses its original form. This is just sad. Even more sad that the developers want to put on the conveyor for increasing weapons EGO rating. MAKE MOAR MOHNEY! God damn it, just make some suits and sell it, don't change nice idea that game have now.

CRIXDA
03-31-2014, 07:04 AM
I have bought used copies of Defiance out of the bargain bin and given them to friends.
They say "oh, this game is cool as h3ll! Why didn't I know about this? Thank You so much for the game! This is awesome!"
Sure, I shucked out 15 bones to make two friends happy and to have a few more homies to play with.
When someone asks me "why didn't I know about this"? Or says "this game is awesome!"
It makes me feel good and want to play Defiance more.
It seems to me that "The Company" would want EVERYONE to approach this bargain-bin title with that kind of vigor and fervor, especially since the butter-fingered mishandling of the Season's Pass and the Overall approach to these "DLC" packs in general are the very things that (in my opinion) landed the Game in said bargain-bin to start with.
At it's core, Defiance is still pretty cool and fun for me. I Love this game and like You have said before, Creeper - if It weren't for Dawn Patrol I may have moved on as well.
DLC five , "The Progressive March to Server Shutdown" (and the end to this hinderous experiment that is eating up all of Rift's resources) goes live when?

Tsort
03-31-2014, 07:42 AM
DLC five , "The Progressive March to Server Shutdown" (and the end to this hinderous experiment that is eating up all of Rift's resources) goes live when?
You always come up with the best spoofs, man. That title was priceless.

lifeexpectancy
03-31-2014, 08:35 AM
I have bought used copies of Defiance out of the bargain bin and given them to friends.
They say "oh, this game is cool as h3ll! Why didn't I know about this? Thank You so much for the game! This is awesome!"
Sure, I shucked out 15 bones to make two friends happy and to have a few more homies to play with.
When someone asks me "why didn't I know about this"? Or says "this game is awesome!"
It makes me feel good and want to play Defiance more.
It seems to me that "The Company" would want EVERYONE to approach this bargain-bin title with that kind of vigor and fervor, especially since the butter-fingered mishandling of the Season's Pass and the Overall approach to these "DLC" packs in general are the very things that (in my opinion) landed the Game in said bargain-bin to start with.
At it's core, Defiance is still pretty cool and fun for me. I Love this game and like You have said before, Creeper - if It weren't for Dawn Patrol I may have moved on as well.
DLC five , "The Progressive March to Server Shutdown" (and the end to this hinderous experiment that is eating up all of Rift's resources) goes live when?

You know I'm honestly surprised your friends were happy with it. I'm not saying that to keep raging at Trion. I'm just seriously surprised. I enjoyed the game Day 1 myself. I continued to enjoy it for several weeks, forgiving the server issues and disconnects as "growing pains for an MMO", because I had played plenty of them in the past.

But server stability, game crashes, and just overall functionally have actually gotten WORSE over the past year, rather than BETTER as they should have. It seems like almost every patch breaks the game more. Then they finally get it working again via a hotfix or new patch, only to break it further with another.

I can't even stand to play the game at this point because it's so broken most of the times I even bother trying. I originally gave the game a decent review on TA, like a 7.5 or 8/10, but that review has since been adjusted, and will probably be adjusted further.

The ironic part is that although I feel the season pass purchasers were completely and totally swindled, and I feel like we deserve CONTENT for what we paid for, I'm at the point now that I actually want the DLC to be as short as possible and I'm praying to all that is good and holy there isn't a "season 2" of DLC. Why? Because unfortunately (and I know I do it to myself), I'm an achievement completionist and I just want to put this game to bed and never, ever touch it again.

AnGeL
03-31-2014, 11:00 AM
http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DLC5ScalingEnemies__Title_Blog.jpg
?

They look like kids cartoon characters.....oh wow. Thats just terrible lol,

Anyway, im looking foward to DLC5, I actually stopped playing this month (day 1 player) it finally happened...I got bored of defiance.

I need this DLC5 real bad to get me into it again, so I dont care what they do anymore, as long as I can play with a high EGo guy and have fun.

AnGeL
03-31-2014, 11:51 AM
Impossible to get yet it clearly says you can earn it through lockboxes and in game events?
You don't have to upgrade all of your old weapons, in fact you're not going to want to.
The whole point of the upgrade is to up your favorite set of weapons and find new loot.

I am surprised at some of the responses about the threads about DLC 5. They're finally giving a purpose to higher egos, They're finally putting the carrot on the stick instead of beating you with the stick like they previously did. (You do know the whole point of an ark hunter is to chase the carrot, right?) they're finally changing the scaling of content.

The current system was never sustainable and it got stale quickly. A power creep with upscaling for players to cut back on segregation works fine and isn't the end of the world and it works in other games just fine. The only downside I see so far is for pvp, but the way they explained it for pve, it's not a bad change.

Agree 100%. This game was boring for me now, all these changes have me looking foward to playing again.

I WANT change, sorry but Defiance was dead for me, or any other 5k player. THIS is what I needed.

Thank you Trion :)

CRIXDA
03-31-2014, 12:43 PM
"What ruins for one, revives for another....."
Isn't that from the cannibal cookbook, just inside the "Long Pork Section"?

Despite my humor defense mechanism, I can see the argument from both angles that You have proposed, Angel and Lifeexpectancy.
I don't want the game to die at all, I want to rise...reborn from the ashes...a glorious phoenix blazing out of the thrift-store "wow! We now have Xbox 360 games!" Display and start doing well again.

What is it going to take?
Here is a forum chock full of folks who care enough about it to CONTRIBUTE REAMS AND REAMS of cool, free material for "The Company" to use to improve the game and does anyone listen????
Nah.
Here is a forum full of folks who are so angry that they can't see straight anymore, won't play the game because they want more. Are they being heard?
Nah.
Here is a whole bunch of people who (for some UNGODLY and STRANGE reason) want Defiance to stay alive!!!
Does anyone other than Us care....?
____(go ahead and say "Nah" for me)

Should We all take a double-shot of R0hypI\Ial and forget this ever happened?
Likely.

We can debate the DLCs or whatever You want, but there is that quiet slam that is louder than a Jet engine that You hear when Lady Galadriel says "The time of the Elves...is over."
That is the silence that everything that We ask for, that We hope for and all of our unanswered questions fall into at "The Company".

We don't have to like it, and DLC 5 is "The Progressive March to The End of Defiance".

deadagent75
04-01-2014, 02:56 AM
this is all good and all, but why can't we have a new area to explorer? are they saving it for season2? cause when you look at your map, there are more land that are shaded black that you can go to if it was possible, but you can't, but that ain't there for no reason and not just by look?

B_Draco
04-01-2014, 03:02 AM
They look like kids cartoon characters.....oh wow. Thats just terrible lol,

Anyway, im looking foward to DLC5, I actually stopped playing this month (day 1 player) it finally happened...I got bored of defiance.

I need this DLC5 real bad to get me into it again, so I dont care what they do anymore, as long as I can play with a high EGo guy and have fun.

If this DLC craps out, I'll use my Defiance game box as a doorstop and my disc as a cup coaster lol. I've yet to decide to hollow out my hellbug toy to stuff cash in it's butt, or let it collect dust amongst my figure collection.

N3gativeCr33p
04-01-2014, 06:29 AM
DLC five, "The Progressive March to Server Shutdown"

Coffee... meet monitor.

LMAO!

Elastik Spastik
04-01-2014, 09:23 AM
Goat Simulation!

There is no need to be here anymore!

RAGEFIGHTER
04-01-2014, 11:07 AM
they say dlc will 5 comes out in april anyone knows wich date ??

Overtkill21
04-01-2014, 12:54 PM
they say dlc will 5 comes out in april anyone knows wich date ??

It's out today! It's already on all of the Platforms stores too, Xbox 360, PC, & even on the PSN!!!!

And - it is working 100% bug free! Wow!

Yrkul
04-01-2014, 02:16 PM
http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DLC5ScalingEnemies__Title_Blog.jpg
Because gold and spikes says "EPIC".

That's the dumbest looking mobs they made to date. Where can we vote NO to this?


It's out today! It's already on all of the Platforms stores too, Xbox 360, PC, & even on the PSN!!!!

And - it is working 100% bug free! Wow!

Yay!..... Wait.

Overtkill21
04-01-2014, 02:30 PM
Because gold and spikes says "EPIC".

That's the dumbest looking mobs they made to date. Where can we vote NO to this?



Yay!..... Wait.

Maybe I should've added: "They even listened to all of the Alpha server feedback and incorporated player solutions!"

That would've helped it scream April Fools.

RAGEFIGHTER
04-01-2014, 03:01 PM
It's out today! It's already on all of the Platforms stores too, Xbox 360, PC, & even on the PSN!!!!

And - it is working 100% bug free! Wow!

nope its not all what my launcher gets is fix patch no dlc announced yea and i have season pass so i shuld have it :)

CRIXDA
04-01-2014, 06:11 PM
WELL...............
http://media4.onsugar.com/files/ed3/192/1922283/47_2009/lady-gaga-amas/i/Lady-Gaga-Sets-Her-Piano-Fire.jpg

GREAT BALLS O' FIRE, OVERTKILL!!!!!
An April Fool's Joke!
You Fooler!

TANKballs
04-01-2014, 08:54 PM
Yep. It multiplies each bonus. It's a little confusing because it used to be add them to the base value. That update changed it though ninja style.

Examples from couple ARs I have
VBI AR - 220 (base) * 1.15 (OJ) * 1.07 (barrel) * 1.05 (AR skill) = 284.245 rounds to 284
FRC AC - 300 (base) * 1.15 * 1.07 * 1.05 * 1.10 (OJ roll) = 426.368 rounds to 426

I hope that this bonus is factored in that way. Guess we'll find out.

The rarity bonus works well because it operates in distinct and finite tiers that apply equally to all players. How this can possibly work when players are going to be allowed to exceed the 100% ego completion scale is beyond me. IMO, for purposes of fairness and fostering motivation to level up, the bonuses should attach to the player and not the level of the weapon. However, if the bonuses are going to follow the weapon's ego, that ego should not bar any level of player from using it.

TRION, you can't say "you must be this tall to ride this ride" and at the same time say "if you're over the minimum height limit you'll have to pay more or deal with a really slow and unsatisfying ride." I really disagree with a system that punishes on both ends.

Yrkul
04-01-2014, 11:51 PM
Maybe I should've added: "They even listened to all of the Alpha server feedback and incorporated player solutions!"

That would've helped it scream April Fools.
Nah. That would have made it too obvious.


nope its not all what my launcher gets is fix patch no dlc announced yea and i have season pass so i shuld have it :)
.....

Sigh.

Ned Kelly
04-02-2014, 07:04 AM
Maybe I should've added: "They even listened to all of the Alpha server feedback and incorporated player solutions!"

That would've helped it scream April Fools.


Appreciate the attempt at humour, but most likely would have screamed "Delusional"

KENETIC TYTON
04-02-2014, 09:20 AM
ok so your scaling weapon damage what about shields and health are our shields gonna get one shot and gone and health another because you didn't mention this. i know this seems obvious as hell. but trion just incase you missed this

RAGEFIGHTER
04-02-2014, 09:38 AM
scapes ?? when dlc 5 will bee released ??

rebtattoo
04-02-2014, 09:59 AM
I'm still trying to understand what all the hype is about....

You're giving us the ability to scale our weapons to match our EGO, in the process changing its dmg output to be insanely high.
You're also scaling he enemy health to buff according to average EGO in their immediate area.

You're adding armor to our arsenal, with "armor repair stations at each fast travel location.

Am I the only one that sees that nothing is really changing? C'mon folks...

Lets say, for the sake of argument, your EGO 4500 using a "non-buffed weapon" of EGO 2900, and it takes 100 shots to kill the hulker. After DLC, same weapon takes 1000 shots o kill same hulker, after it has been buffed to match your "EGO level". Then, you buff your weapon with arkforge so that it matches your EGO level and now it only takes 100 shots again, or as claimed by the advertisement, perhaps even less. I mean, they claim we'll be able to " In fact, your rating 4000 weapon can take out a standard Mad Mattock with a lone shot to the chest. Which brings us to our next major change: scaling enemies."

Do you not see what is essentially happening? Nothing. Nothing is going to change. Only the numbers will change. With the buffed weapons, you'll still be doing the same amount of shots.

The only thing added, is yet another grind. This time for arkforge, which un-surprisingly, no one with The Company seem to want to divulge any info about.

I look forward to be proven wrong.

N3gativeCr33p
04-02-2014, 10:28 AM
Am I the only one that sees that nothing is really changing? C'mon folks...

*looks in mirror*

Nope... no horse blinders or blindfold on this guy.

AnGeL
04-02-2014, 11:22 AM
I'm still trying to understand what all the hype is about....

You're giving us the ability to scale our weapons to match our EGO, in the process changing its dmg output to be insanely high.
You're also scaling he enemy health to buff according to average EGO in their immediate area.

You're adding armor to our arsenal, with "armor repair stations at each fast travel location.

Am I the only one that sees that nothing is really changing? C'mon folks...

Lets say, for the sake of argument, your EGO 4500 using a "non-buffed weapon" of EGO 2900, and it takes 100 shots to kill the hulker. After DLC, same weapon takes 1000 shots o kill same hulker, after it has been buffed to match your "EGO level". Then, you buff your weapon with arkforge so that it matches your EGO level and now it only takes 100 shots again, or as claimed by the advertisement, perhaps even less. I mean, they claim we'll be able to " In fact, your rating 4000 weapon can take out a standard Mad Mattock with a lone shot to the chest. Which brings us to our next major change: scaling enemies."

Do you not see what is essentially happening? Nothing. Nothing is going to change. Only the numbers will change. With the buffed weapons, you'll still be doing the same amount of shots.

The only thing added, is yet another grind. This time for arkforge, which un-surprisingly, no one with The Company seem to want to divulge any info about.

I look forward to be proven wrong.

Damn you....you just took away 90% of my excitment for the DLC....I knew all that already, but you worded it so that I cant see the good so much anymore...

Damn...just when I was fnally happy with a DLC!

rebtattoo
04-02-2014, 12:02 PM
Damn you....you just took away 90% of my excitment for the DLC....I knew all that already, but you worded it so that I cant see the good so much anymore...

Damn...just when I was fnally happy with a DLC!Sorry...

Just saying what everyone knew but weren't saying....

DLC is just another patch, with the game mechanics changed and a few things altered, a title added, a couple pusuits added, and a couple new perks.

WooHoo.....Think I'll save another $10...

drackiller
04-02-2014, 11:41 PM
Sorry...

Just saying what everyone knew but weren't saying....

DLC is just another patch, with the game mechanics changed and a few things altered, a title added, a couple pusuits added, and a couple new perks.

WooHoo.....Think I'll save another $10...

They already have my money unfortunately, but no more.
No more money for nonsense.

duction
04-02-2014, 11:47 PM
Can we get an answer about how ark forge is earnt in game

wartitan
04-03-2014, 08:00 AM
And an idea of how much arkforge it will take per 100 EGO levels it adds?

Market
04-03-2014, 08:15 AM
And an idea of how much arkforge it will take per 100 EGO levels it adds?


Plain and simple:

Per 100 Power Rating Increase
Common: 2 Arkforge
Uncommon: 4 Arkforge
Rare: 10 Arkforge
Epic: 20 Arkforge
Legendary: 50 Arkforge

found it ;)

Holy Bahamut3
04-03-2014, 08:21 AM
They already have my money unfortunately, but no more.
No more money for nonsense.

I think many of us season pass holders hold the same sentiment .

ConcreteSnake
04-03-2014, 08:39 AM
Originally Posted by Scapes View Post

Plain and simple:

Per 100 Power Rating Increase
•Common: 2 Arkforge
•Uncommon: 4 Arkforge
•Rare: 10 Arkforge
•Epic: 20 Arkforge
•Legendary: 50 Arkforge


so I get 1000 arkforge with the dlc, but to upgrade my ego 4000 respark regen v ark to 5000 its gonna cost 500 arkforge ($20 in bit store) or 50% of what I get with the dlc purchase to get an extra 18 capacity.......uh wait what? My main loadout (2 weapons and 1 shield all around ego 4000) will cost 1500 arkforge on day one if I want them maxed, ridiculous....and what about grenades? If my saw does 2800 dmg per bullet what does a 5000dmg grenade do or do I have to pay to level those up as well. I was super stoked about this dlc until the ludicrous pricing was revealed. Dreams = Crushed.

Combo Breaker
04-03-2014, 08:49 AM
Originally Posted by Scapes View Post

Plain and simple:

Per 100 Power Rating Increase
•Common: 2 Arkforge
•Uncommon: 4 Arkforge
•Rare: 10 Arkforge
•Epic: 20 Arkforge
•Legendary: 50 Arkforge


so I get 1000 arkforge with the dlc, but to upgrade my ego 4000 respark regen v ark to 5000 its gonna cost 500 arkforge ($20 in bit store) or 50% of what I get with the dlc purchase to get an extra 18 capacity.......uh wait what? My main loadout (2 weapons and 1 shield all around ego 4000) will cost 1500 arkforge on day one if I want them maxed, ridiculous....and what about grenades? If my saw does 2800 dmg per bullet what does a 5000dmg grenade do or do I have to pay to level those up as well. I was super stoked about this dlc until the ludicrous pricing was revealed. Dreams = Crushed.

I figure I will now keep maybe 10 total items and discard/sell the rest. Cannot wait till there is some solid information on this debacle. It will either be better than we think or a disk err.... deal breaker.

ConcreteSnake
04-03-2014, 09:09 AM
I figure I will now keep maybe 10 total items and discard/sell the rest. Cannot wait till there is some solid information on this debacle. It will either be better than we think or a disk err.... deal breaker.

same here, gonna get rid of all this inventory I was told will still be good, they just forgot to mention the cost. Prices about to flip flop, low ego will be worthless and high ego will be expensive

wartitan
04-03-2014, 09:54 AM
Wow...and do we know what the landscape looks like for earning arkforge in game? Will it drop like scrip/salvage or be earned like keys?

Edit: Looks like arkforge can be bought in lockboxes or earned from events, so the question comes to, from what events and how much will be the arkforge in the lockboxes? If similar to keys, may make it worth converting salvage/scrip to arkforge then....

From the article:
"Ark hunters who find themselves with legendary weapons they’ve been holding onto since the early game will not be left out in the cold. Arkforge, a new currency available from lock boxes and events, can be used to increase a weapon or shield’s power rating, so you can level up your favorite gear. Arkforge Caches can also be purchased from the store in the following quantities:"

Overtkill21
04-03-2014, 01:04 PM
Do you not see what is essentially happening? Nothing. Nothing is going to change. Only the numbers will change. With the buffed weapons, you'll still be doing the same amount of shots.

The only thing added, is yet another grind. This time for arkforge, which un-surprisingly, no one with The Company seem to want to divulge any info about.

I look forward to be proven wrong.

Oh no something is absolutely changing reb - our weapons will now actively degrade unless we spend Arkforge to keep them at our level - constantly.

Oh and I guarantee this change will be accompanied by an emptying of the landscape of arkhunters.

TANKballs
04-03-2014, 01:47 PM
Oh no something is absolutely changing reb - our weapons will now actively degrade unless we spend Arkforge to keep them at our level - constantly.

Oh and I guarantee this change will be accompanied by an emptying of the landscape of arkhunters.

I thought it was fun to pull out random lower ego weapons and run around with them every once in a while. It breaks up the monotony of always using your one best/most favorite weapon. Now we will have to monotonously grind to upgrade a handful of weapons which will become even more monotonous to use. I must be missing something...is this "the chase" that is supposed to keep us playing the game?

NomadPhx
04-03-2014, 05:41 PM
considering the fact that most players who bought your beta test for the full $59.99 and have left due to well, lets say theres a reason games like this need so many fixes, and all these newer players get a full game for 1/5 the price will there be any incentive for those of us who've been railroaded?

rebtattoo
04-03-2014, 05:50 PM
Oh no something is absolutely changing reb - our weapons will now actively degrade unless we spend Arkforge to keep them at our level - constantly.

Oh and I guarantee this change will be accompanied by an emptying of the landscape of arkhunters.I'm capped. The new pursuits mean nothing to me because I will not support The Company any longer by purchasing DLC. My EGO will not go up because there is nothing in the game, that I am willing or want to do to raise it. The majority of my weapons are at or very close to my ego level.

Essentially, for me and many like me, very little if any change will occur. The enemies will scale to my level or someone nearby that is higher EGO. Either way, I'll still produce the most DMG my EGO possibly can. If someone with higher EGO is nearby, I'll ride the coat tails, as it seems The Company wants.

duction
04-04-2014, 04:09 AM
I'm capped. The new pursuits mean nothing to me because I will not support The Company any longer by purchasing DLC. My EGO will not go up because there is nothing in the game, that I am willing or want to do to raise it. The majority of my weapons are at or very close to my ego level.

Essentially, for me and many like me, very little if any change will occur. The enemies will scale to my level or someone nearby that is higher EGO. Either way, I'll still produce the most DMG my EGO possibly can. If someone with higher EGO is nearby, I'll ride the coat tails, as it seems The Company wants.

everybody says they are stopping but they all come back.

Love this game.

Tsort
04-04-2014, 06:27 AM
everybody says they are stopping but they all come back.

Love this game.
Reb never wrote he was stopping. I think you misread that.

Overtkill21
04-04-2014, 06:44 AM
everybody says they are stopping but they all come back.

Love this game.

I can name over 100 former Arkhunters that never came back.

"...they all come back." - no, not really.

ArthriticNed
04-04-2014, 06:53 AM
I'm still trying to understand what all the hype is about....

You're giving us the ability to scale our weapons to match our EGO, in the process changing its dmg output to be insanely high.
You're also scaling he enemy health to buff according to average EGO in their immediate area.

You're adding armor to our arsenal, with "armor repair stations at each fast travel location.

Am I the only one that sees that nothing is really changing? C'mon folks...

Lets say, for the sake of argument, your EGO 4500 using a "non-buffed weapon" of EGO 2900, and it takes 100 shots to kill the hulker. After DLC, same weapon takes 1000 shots o kill same hulker, after it has been buffed to match your "EGO level". Then, you buff your weapon with arkforge so that it matches your EGO level and now it only takes 100 shots again, or as claimed by the advertisement, perhaps even less. I mean, they claim we'll be able to " In fact, your rating 4000 weapon can take out a standard Mad Mattock with a lone shot to the chest. Which brings us to our next major change: scaling enemies."

Do you not see what is essentially happening? Nothing. Nothing is going to change. Only the numbers will change. With the buffed weapons, you'll still be doing the same amount of shots.

The only thing added, is yet another grind. This time for arkforge, which un-surprisingly, no one with The Company seem to want to divulge any info about.

I look forward to be proven wrong.


you're stealing my thoughts.....said this in a party as I was raeding the Q&A for the 1st time. It's a pointless change that will hinder more than help. Unless it's extremely easy to obtain large amounts of Arkforge, this is going to ruin this game. I fear the end is near.

Trion, I beg you, make me(and many others) eat our words. Prove us wrong.....show some love:(

Holy Bahamut3
04-04-2014, 06:59 AM
you're stealing my thoughts.....said this in a party as I was raeding the Q&A for the 1st time. It's a pointless change that will hinder more than help. Unless it's extremely easy to obtain large amounts of Arkforge, this is going to ruin this game. I fear the end is near.

Trion, I beg you, make me(and many others) eat our words. Prove us wrong.....show some love:(

Let me put the arkfoge thing into perspective. Scored 80k+ at Kenn Farm incursion on alpha last night, got 3 arkforge. It is tied to the scoring system, but scoring high enough to get a decent amount will be rough.

ArthriticNed
04-04-2014, 07:07 AM
Let me put the arkfoge thing into perspective. Scored 80k+ at Kenn Farm incursion on alpha last night, got 3 arkforge. It is tied to the scoring system, but scoring high enough to get a decent amount will be rough.

just a guess, but it looks like we'll get 1 Arkforge for hitting top tier rewards and 1 more fore each 27k pts increment?? I know 1 ex is'nt enough for a basis but...

What about the other non-Def Store/bits sources? Please keep us informed, for the sake of our sanity lol

Holy Bahamut3
04-04-2014, 09:26 AM
just a guess, but it looks like we'll get 1 Arkforge for hitting top tier rewards and 1 more fore each 27k pts increment?? I know 1 ex is'nt enough for a basis but...

What about the other non-Def Store/bits sources? Please keep us informed, for the sake of our sanity lol

Will do, I will be jumping on after work this evening, and will relay any useful information after testing arkfalls and other things to confirm. Hopefully my character will be copied by then. Its not 5000 EGO but neither are the majority of people currently playing. I moved my 2950 character to get a feel for average player ego, and how it will translate after the patch goes live.

Some other things I picked up on last night. BIO nano's will become WAY more popular post patch. All enemies have armor now, which translates to Damage reduction. The BIO nano cuts through that armor making it an invaluable nano for supporting a group. The quicker the armor comes off the more damage the group does overall. Radiation bypasses armor, but not entirely from what Ive seen, and Fire does alot of damage to health, but with the armor on the damage reduction makes it a costly nano to have ammo wise. I have yet to try siphon. Also high damage output weapons (snipers, Pistols, etc) will be less worthy after the patch goes live. they still do massive damage, but the enemies are stronger and smarter, and you may only get a few shots off in the same amount of time an smg can kill them.

Wow that was alot more than I intended to type before work, but I think you'll get the idea.

ArthriticNed
04-04-2014, 09:44 AM
Will do, I will be jumping on after work this evening, and will relay any useful information after testing arkfalls and other things to confirm. Hopefully my character will be copied by then. Its not 5000 EGO but neither are the majority of people currently playing. I moved my 2950 character to get a feel for average player ego, and how it will translate after the patch goes live.

Some other things I picked up on last night. BIO nano's will become WAY more popular post patch. All enemies have armor now, which translates to Damage reduction. The BIO nano cuts through that armor making it an invaluable nano for supporting a group. The quicker the armor comes off the more damage the group does overall. Radiation bypasses armor, but not entirely from what Ive seen, and Fire does alot of damage to health, but with the armor on the damage reduction makes it a costly nano to have ammo wise. I have yet to try siphon. Also high damage output weapons (snipers, Pistols, etc) will be less worthy after the patch goes live. they still do massive damage, but the enemies are stronger and smarter, and you may only get a few shots off in the same amount of time an smg can kill them.

Wow that was alot more than I intended to type before work, but I think you'll get the idea.


much appreciated ty

Overtkill21
04-04-2014, 02:00 PM
The more that I read about this DLC the less likely it becomes that Defiance is ever going back into my PS3.

redskull
04-04-2014, 04:23 PM
http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DLC5ScalingEnemies__Title_Blog.jpg

This picture literally reminded me of skyrim texture mods. Theirs several out there that our decent but this looks like an 8 year modded your game and your releasing it as dlc? It looks like someone was paid to make a re-texture job but was just to lazy to apply effort towards making it look half way decent. I'm sorry but that's like the equivalent of replacing you rottweiler guard dog with a chihuahua. How's that supposed to be intimidating for a volge elite?

HeatherQc
04-04-2014, 09:02 PM
This new "DLC" sound and look BAD
What I like from this game was that everyone was equal even if they are high ego or not. I like how the game is now.

I'm ego 4925 but I don't want to get push to fight harder enemies or get all my guns useless. In all the "DLC" I think this one is the worst.

rebtattoo
04-04-2014, 09:34 PM
everybody says they are stopping but they all come back.

Love this game.Didn't say I was stopping.....yet.

Said I was EGO capped. Nothing in the game I continue to play will increase my EGO, hence, my game play changes very little. Once again, The Company does little in regards to the game for "some" of us long time players.

All this being said, after perusing the Alpha test threads, this may be a game breaker for me and several of the ppl I game with...

Sad that Mr. ***** *******, Lead Developer of the game can't seem to "develop" anything, and would rather copy/paste old ideas. That he would rather turn this into an entirely different game.

I play Defiance because of the way it WAS set up...This new Defiance doesn't seem very appealing to me at all.

Bonehead
04-05-2014, 11:11 PM
Didn't say I was stopping.....yet.

Said I was EGO capped. Nothing in the game I continue to play will increase my EGO, hence, my game play changes very little. Once again, The Company does little in regards to the game for "some" of us long time players.

All this being said, after perusing the Alpha test threads, this may be a game breaker for me and several of the ppl I game with...

Sad that Mr. ***** *******, Lead Developer of the game can't seem to "develop" anything, and would rather copy/paste old ideas. That he would rather turn this into an entirely different game.

I play Defiance because of the way it WAS set up...This new Defiance doesn't seem very appealing to me at all.

I've been on the test server quite a bit and all I can say is...
Things are going to change. How much and exactly how are still up in the air.
It seems to me the creative team doesn't like shooters much. They are puting regular mobs in low level missions that take a dozen crits from a vbi bolt action sniper to down. That's not a longer more fulfilling fight, it's just a mini grind to get a simple kill. Playing the test server it seems obvious that they are tweaking it a lot even as I am playing so, again we have to wait and see, but a lot of what I really love about the game is on the chopping block.
If there is a conspiracy to empty the servers though, this might do the trick.
Not sayin' you know, just sayin'.

Catfish
04-06-2014, 12:37 AM
Didn't say I was stopping.....yet.

Said I was EGO capped. Nothing in the game I continue to play will increase my EGO, hence, my game play changes very little. Once again, The Company does little in regards to the game for "some" of us long time players.

All this being said, after perusing the Alpha test threads, this may be a game breaker for me and several of the ppl I game with...

Sad that Mr. ***** *******, Lead Developer of the game can't seem to "develop" anything, and would rather copy/paste old ideas. That he would rather turn this into an entirely different game.

I play Defiance because of the way it WAS set up...This new Defiance doesn't seem very appealing to me at all.

Follow the money --> Inventory slots --> http://i60.tinypic.com/rm4tj5.jpg --> Each needing to be upgraded --> Arkforge

Aenea Endymion
04-06-2014, 06:48 AM
All this being said, after perusing the Alpha test threads, this may be a game breaker for me and several of the ppl I game with...
[...]

I play Defiance because of the way it WAS set up...This new Defiance doesn't seem very appealing to me at all.

Same here...
I played Defiance cause it was a good system with no level system in it.
The picture put on the first page of this topic showing the difference between two weapons with different ego made me thinking that defiance, at least for me, is dead.

Moreover the new scoring system is, in my opinion, only frustration.
What I loved was, coming back from work, launching the game, playing 30 minutes to 90 minutes and get back to the life. By this time I could get several codes and I was happy.
Now, when I play I rarely get a code, except from weekly and dayly rewards.

As a lot of players, I wanted more contents and not a new game system.

lifeexpectancy
04-07-2014, 01:14 AM
Bottom line is this last one is not content at all. It is a title update, and a complete scam.

Ned Kelly
04-07-2014, 03:31 AM
Arktech Revolution: The March of Regression

Bonehead
04-07-2014, 04:22 AM
Arktech Revolution: The bullet sponge patch.

jschmuck33
04-07-2014, 07:01 AM
Arktech Revolution: The bullet sponge patch.

If you've played on the test server that's really accurate. I didn't get my email in to get my main character copied to the test server before the weekend so I have to wait until the get it copied. Anyways, I figured "hey, they're making the enemies scale to the ego level I'm at right, let's test that out and try making a new character."

I GOT OWNED!!!!

I could barely kill a freaking skitterling!

Then I ran into veteran riflemen, I just ran past 'cause there was no way I could take out more than one or two before getting downed (this is with reviving once). I've been here since beta and I could not get past those freaking riflemen.

N3gativeCr33p
04-07-2014, 07:06 AM
Arktech Revolution: The bullet sponge patch.

Nice one, but I'm more of a fan of that "Arktech Revolting" moniker I've heard before. ;)

rebtattoo
04-07-2014, 10:19 AM
Nice one, but I'm more of a fan of that "Arktech Revolting" moniker I've heard before. ;)I'm more partial to "Arktech Devolution: The game that Mr. ***** ******* and The Company completely destroyed."

N3gativeCr33p
04-07-2014, 11:46 AM
I'm more partial to "Arktech Devolution: The game that Mr. ***** ******* and The Company completely destroyed."

LOL... you always make me laugh. ;)

http://i.qkme.me/3ribkb.jpg

AnGeL
04-07-2014, 11:55 AM
As a lot of players, I wanted more contents and not a new game system.

Great way to put it, and thats exactly what they did yea.

AnGeL
04-07-2014, 12:12 PM
Sad that Mr. ***** *******, Lead Developer of the game can't seem to "develop" anything, and would rather copy/paste old ideas. That he would rather turn this into an entirely different game.

I play Defiance because of the way it WAS set up...This new Defiance doesn't seem very appealing to me at all.

They just got in new footage of Trion making the DLC:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GEaCvMS8Lrk/U0KrQroB-II/AAAAAAAAACA/x4J4_n58yLE/w506-h380/fd32bbb0ddb00a752a522a6621f8d105.gif

AnGeL
04-07-2014, 12:13 PM
They just got in new footage of Trion making the DLC:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GEaCvMS8Lrk/U0KrQroB-II/AAAAAAAAACA/x4J4_n58yLE/w506-h380/fd32bbb0ddb00a752a522a6621f8d105.gif

lol, all joking aside I honestly need to play it before I make up my mind. DLC5 will be a dissapointment, no doubt, hopefully its minor. Damn those PERKS...you couldint get any more lazy in making new perks lol, wow.

redskull
04-07-2014, 01:13 PM
If you've played on the test server that's really accurate. I didn't get my email in to get my main character copied to the test server before the weekend so I have to wait until the get it copied. Anyways, I figured "hey, they're making the enemies scale to the ego level I'm at right, let's test that out and try making a new character."

I GOT OWNED!!!!

I could barely kill a freaking skitterling!

Then I ran into veteran riflemen, I just ran past 'cause there was no way I could take out more than one or two before getting downed (this is with reviving once). I've been here since beta and I could not get past those freaking riflemen.

After reading this I've lost all hope of this DLC even remotely being good. For one they half the price the game last week to $5. Once this goes live all I can see is new players getting frustrated and ultimately quitting.

All the scaling at first sounds nice but they honestly should of just stuck with unlocking extra perk slots with every other level. When they removed that they made even less incentive to level your character. I can only see this DLC benefiting the Devs more so than the players. Because if you think about, that is assumming from what I've read is true, then you'd spend more arkforge leveling up weapons that aren't close to your level. This increases the demand for lock boxes since they drop weapons the same ego level as yours. When this game first launched people were wasting up to $50+ just on those lockboxes and their still their best selling item. All I can see here is an extra grind which = more money for the devs and poorly executed at that.

Assuming this game does somehow stick around after this, the scaling will be too ridiculous that it will ultimatley make the game even more unbalanced. Sure upgrading a saw from 300 to 2000 sounds great but their just creating more work for themselves. Bigger numbers just equals more balances to the game and they can't even get around to fixing the majority of the bugs in-game. So I highly doubt they'll take the time to make things balanced. I bet when they came up with the idea they didn't even think how this would effect the game if say in the future they raise the ego cap again.

Rokea
04-07-2014, 03:45 PM
YAY one more thing to break the game when it releases... I can put this next to the broken 7th legion, gunslinger and arkfall "Dlc's/Paid updates"

Kane Fraiser
04-07-2014, 05:54 PM
They just got in new footage of Trion making the DLC:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GEaCvMS8Lrk/U0KrQroB-II/AAAAAAAAACA/x4J4_n58yLE/w506-h380/fd32bbb0ddb00a752a522a6621f8d105.gif

HAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAA omg this is so great

Overwatch
04-07-2014, 06:24 PM
Reading through these threads and many others versus what DLC5 is suppose to be is proof that the developers are trying to put TRION out of business by not listening to people in the forums.

sericks
04-07-2014, 08:50 PM
I do believe they want us to stop playing and take all of our money and put it toward a new project ........I had high hopes for this game to

Atticus Batman
04-07-2014, 10:41 PM
Nice one, but I'm more of a fan of that "Arktech Revolting" moniker I've heard before. ;)

You're welcome for that.

Bonehead
04-07-2014, 11:07 PM
Long story short, If you like bullet sponges, you're gonna love the new bullet sponge patch.
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/bullet-sponge_zps5d03f81a.jpg

duction
04-08-2014, 01:26 AM
Long story short, If you like bullet sponges, you're gonna love the new bullet sponge patch.
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/bullet-sponge_zps5d03f81a.jpg

Lol that made me chuckle on this boring morning at work!

SkinSkull
04-10-2014, 05:53 PM
New mechanics would be nice but pouring hot sauce onto the original recipient will be nice too.

This update sounds awesome.

We need more things like the Warmaster, but where we aren't going to be screwed over by confused people and can make a private instance of it. I liked Minor Arkbreaks too, but no one goes in anymore and I am just ruthlessly punished if I die by myself.

I really really really like Defiance. Give me NEW things, please. That is was DLC is supposed to be. DLC is CONTENT: not change of core game mechanic without adding anything.[/QUOTE]

SkinSkull
04-10-2014, 06:24 PM
I think simply complaining about the dlc is an act of hope and
Love of this game. Cripes, let the devs make the damn game. I am new to the game and love the hell

Out of it. How do you think the devs bankroll all the patch fixing and wish list granting? If you pay a buck or two for a gun you like and the devs can afford to fix the vanishing cars, then we all win.

I got this game for 10.$ and it is a great value. Maybe Triton could do a little "veteran bonus" for the glorified beta testers that paid 60$ at launch.

If they won't thank those guys then I will: Thanks guys. Thanks for sticking out all the changes and helping either through funding or feedback to make this game as good as it is when I started it.

N3gativeCr33p
04-10-2014, 06:36 PM
Maybe Triton could do a little "veteran bonus" for the glorified beta testers that paid 60$ at launch.

Yipee! Another loot/XP/skill boost weekend? Kind of like the year anniversary event "Triton" recently dropped? Better go change my pants, I just soiled them from all of the anticipation.

:rolleyes:

Ironhide
04-10-2014, 07:52 PM
I think simply complaining about the dlc is an act of hope and
Love of this game. Cripes, let the devs make the damn game. I am new to the game and love the hell

Out of it. How do you think the devs bankroll all the patch fixing and wish list granting? If you pay a buck or two for a gun you like and the devs can afford to fix the vanishing cars, then we all win.

I got this game for 10.$ and it is a great value. Maybe Triton could do a little "veteran bonus" for the glorified beta testers that paid 60$ at launch.

If they won't thank those guys then I will: Thanks guys. Thanks for sticking out all the changes and helping either through funding or feedback to make this game as good as it is when I started it.

I would love for them to make the game, hell I've been waiting all year for them to make it to where I can play without critical disconnects.

Well they have been recently since dlc 1 through 5 bankrolling the ability to patch by releasing said patches as dlc content.

I would love to see the wishlist because I know gernade changes, scoring changes, and nano overhauls and ablative armor wernt on it, in fact everything we have asked for has been ignored in liu of the Lead Developer/designers own wishes.

As for being glorified, at least we were with this game from the begining till now, not because it suddenly became convenient because you had a spare 10 bucks and said what the hell. Well hate to say it, but most of what you see is what we have delt with and been trying to get them to fix all year, again see wish list comment above.

I welcome you to Defiance, and hope those rose glasses last you in the days to follow, cause sooner or later, Because Grenades!

Atticus Batman
04-10-2014, 10:42 PM
I think simply complaining about the dlc is an act of hope and
Love of this game. Cripes, let the devs make the damn game. I am new to the game and love the hell

Out of it. How do you think the devs bankroll all the patch fixing and wish list granting? If you pay a buck or two for a gun you like and the devs can afford to fix the vanishing cars, then we all win.

I got this game for 10.$ and it is a great value. Maybe Triton could do a little "veteran bonus" for the glorified beta testers that paid 60$ at launch.

If they won't thank those guys then I will: Thanks guys. Thanks for sticking out all the changes and helping either through funding or feedback to make this game as good as it is when I started it.

Triton makes the game now? Nope they still don't make games! http://www.trittonaudio.com/. Trion makes the game! http://www.trionworlds.com/en/

In case you don't realize it, a game is NOT out for sale in the comercial market until it has already been made. Since it was sold over a YEAR AGO, that means it has already been made. So the Developers are NOT making the game anymore! They are altering everything about it a year later, when it should have been done back in the actual alpha and beta testing, both of which finished before the launch date.

Your vanishing cars that you "think" will be fixed are NOT a new bug! They have been doing that since alpha. Everyone who was here befroe last may/june should get better compensated. Not only that but, MOST of FREE stuff everyone gets, is what was ALL listed as exclusive to paid dlc owners back when the game was first announced. Instead for paying for a dlc you get 2 percent of the "exclusive content", where as the other 98 percent is given to EVERYONE. Of that 2 percent dlc exclusive to payed owners, 1 percent is locked until you grind for it, or get lucky enough to get it in a lotto box that you had to grind for. half a percent is weapons that you can only get from certain "events" such as incursions, and arkbreaks, which even non dlcers can do. That last half a percent is the one title and weapon you get for owning the dlc, with a possibility that that specific dlc may give you an "exclusive" vehicle that anyone can buy for bits, and possibly green versions of the "exclusive guns", and maybe even "exclusive" access to a new race that is exactly like all the other characters, except in appearance and name(neither of wich actually matter anyway). As for feedback........They have proven they almost NEVER listen to us! Some of the previous staff even admitted it point blank several times.

Your thank you is nice, but guess what it is MORE than Trion will ever do for us. Welcome to the game, but be warned. Once you quit spending money and get past ego 3000, you are considered an old timer of no consequence to them any more. If it weren't for my friends, what little fun I do have in the game, and my lack of money, even I would have moved on already.


http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=batman+laughs&FORM=VIRE7#view=detail&mid=362620C8F0C4E232B866362620C8F0C4E232B866

Truthfully, I think when it comes to Dlc 5, Trion is making ALL OF US, feel like poor Harley at the end of that clip. Listen to it all, but especially what she says at the end.

Carnak
04-11-2014, 04:46 PM
Question - Does this change the requirements for achieving max ego?

I've always said I thought Defiance's ego rating system was bad. Requiring players to engage in activities they might not enjoy to reach max ego, even if that didn't equate to 'level', was terrible game design. The oft-spouted defence (from memory including by developers) was that ego didn't affect power at all. Not that that was even true since it did affect some things significantly like shield health.

But now that ego rating has much more of an impact on player power, will players still need to do arenas, pvp etc. to achieve max ego?

Atticus Batman
04-12-2014, 12:31 AM
Question - Does this change the requirements for achieving max ego?

I've always said I thought Defiance's ego rating system was bad. Requiring players to engage in activities they might not enjoy to reach max ego, even if that didn't equate to 'level', was terrible game design. The oft-spouted defence (from memory including by developers) was that ego didn't affect power at all. Not that that was even true since it did affect some things significantly like shield health.

But now that ego rating has much more of an impact on player power, will players still need to do arenas, pvp etc. to achieve max ego?

They will not stupidly remove all the PvP pursuits. Yes new ones are being added but if you want to reach the newest level cap you will still have to do ALL the pursuits.

Carnak
04-13-2014, 01:40 PM
They will not stupidly remove all the PvP pursuits.

So they might still cleverly do it? ;)

Atticus Batman
04-13-2014, 02:46 PM
So they might still cleverly do it? ;)

They will not remove them. If they do MOST of their main player base will leave!

Instead of making a few feel screwed just to help all the lazy whiners, who refuse to PvP but want the free level gain, it would give the shaft to EVERYONE who already ground out al those pursuits! Btw we are the reason the game is still araound, because we are the ones who have been here from the start without taking more than a 2 week vacation.

Quit whining. The PvP Pursuits are going to stay. If you refuse to do them, then that it YOUR problem. Personally I won't ever be getting the racing pursuits, but I am not going to whine that they should remove those pursuits. There are pursuits for everyone, so why should they remove the ones you dislike, just because you dislike them? You may be able to find a handful of people that also cry for the removal of them, but I can find just as many if not more that will demand they leave them and maybe add more. For every one forumite, there are atleast 10 gamers that play the game but do not come looking for the forums to see how forumites are constantly screaming to have things change/added/removed to the game that will screw it up more.

Deunan
04-13-2014, 02:50 PM
They will not remove them. If they do MOST of their main player base will leave!Most of their player base is not PvP oriented. In every MMO that is geared towards PvE, which is almost every MMO that has PvE content, the PvP oriented player base is always in the minority. You have to be deliberately blind to not realize that this game is far more oriented towards PvE with PvP as a side feature.

Atticus Batman
04-13-2014, 03:08 PM
Most of their player base is not PvP oriented. In every MMO that is geared towards PvE, which is almost every MMO that has PvE content, the PvP oriented player base is always in the minority. You have to be deliberately blind to not realize that this game is far more oriented towards PvE with PvP as a side feature.

Perhaps but MOST of the actual long term players DID grind out the PvP pursuits and will feel shafted if, we now feel like we did them for NO reason. You have to be STUPID to not realize that removing even more stuff that the long term players had to do, will alianate us and even more and may cause us to leave intirely, wich btw is starting to happen. With us gone only the namadic players will be here and then there won't be enough playerbase for Trion to even pretend to care anymore, and the servers will go bye bye.

Carnak
04-13-2014, 03:47 PM
Most of their player base is not PvP oriented. In every MMO that is geared towards PvE, which is almost every MMO that has PvE content, the PvP oriented player base is always in the minority. You have to be deliberately blind to not realize that this game is far more oriented towards PvE with PvP as a side feature.

I think that's precisely it. Atticus has selfish reasons for wanting to keep the system the way it is. Selfish reasons are fair enough but rather than admitting that they're making completely ridiculous claims which fly in the face of reality.

Personally I don't have a problem with PvP. But with ozzie high latency + frequent Defiance server lag, even getting a silver in time trials is difficult. Sometimes it takes half the time limit just for the first arch to spawn. I'm also not a fan of arena content but even if dreadfully boring I can at least complete them.

But you're right. The majority of players don't like PvP. This is blindingly obvious if you look at the prevalence of PvE and PvP servers for any major MMO. Many smaller ones don't even bother with PvP servers and PvP oriented (i.e. required) MMOs have far fewer players in total.

IMO smart game design is offering players the choice to engage in activities they enjoy and pass on others they don't because the moment you mandate anything - eg. by saying you must do this or you can't reach the ego cap - you give potential players an obvious reason not to even try the game.

It makes me a seriously sad panda that Defiance got this so horribly wrong because other parts of the game - especially combat - are really good.

Carnak
04-13-2014, 04:22 PM
Perhaps but MOST of the actual long term players DID grind out the PvP pursuits and will feel shafted if, we now feel like we did them for NO reason. You have to be STUPID to not realize that removing even more stuff that the long term players had to do, will alianate us and even more and may cause us to leave intirely, wich btw is starting to happen.

Aha, you admit it. Excellent.

I understand and sympathise with your having grinded your way through such unpleasant content but this is crunch time. The game has to pick up or we could all be attending its funeral soon. The dedicated few who played the game even when it wasn't fun can't sustain this game financially. Surely you can understand that removing (or rather making optional) the unpleasant content could instantly, easily and massively increase the game's appeal to potential players?

The TV series has not yet been renewed for a third season and based on first season ratings it doesn't look promising. They should have reshot the pilot. It was dreadful compared to every episode that followed and lots of potential viewers wouldn't have stuck around to see them. If it doesn't get renewed for a third series that's likely reflect and impact poorly on the game.

The best bet for seeing a third series might even be improving the game's popularity and now is the time to do it. There'll be free media attention with the start of a new season of the TV series and the last of the first season DLC. This is the closest they'll ever get to a second chance.

Lillith Valerian
04-13-2014, 06:20 PM
They should have reshot the pilot. It was dreadful compared to every episode that followed and lots of potential viewers wouldn't have stuck around to see them.

I watched the pilot, and then bailed. It was uninspired, boring 'SyFy' filler with some of the worst CGI and matting I've ever seen. The 'Volge attack' (if I recall the plot correctly) at the end had zero excitement or sense of danger. The whole thing was just awful.

Haven't been back since to see any episodes after that. Nor do I have any desire to.

Yrkul
04-13-2014, 06:58 PM
They will not remove them. If they do MOST of their main player base will leave!

Instead of making a few feel screwed just to help all the lazy whiners, who refuse to PvP but want the free level gain, it would give the shaft to EVERYONE who already ground out al those pursuits! Btw we are the reason the game is still araound, because we are the ones who have been here from the start without taking more than a 2 week vacation.

Quit whining. The PvP Pursuits are going to stay. If you refuse to do them, then that it YOUR problem. Personally I won't ever be getting the racing pursuits, but I am not going to whine that they should remove those pursuits. There are pursuits for everyone, so why should they remove the ones you dislike, just because you dislike them? You may be able to find a handful of people that also cry for the removal of them, but I can find just as many if not more that will demand they leave them and maybe add more. For every one forumite, there are atleast 10 gamers that play the game but do not come looking for the forums to see how forumites are constantly screaming to have things change/added/removed to the game that will screw it up more.

Personally I don't like PvP in general. In some MMOs it can be fun under controlled condition, with objective focused gameplay and people wanting to work together. But generally I avoid it. I've tried a fair amount of MMOs, and at times tried rolling characters on PvP servers as well. However, I've found PvP enthusiasts to be tiring company for the most part. That doesn't mean I want PvP to be removed from the MMOs I play. I just want the option not to take part in it.That option I don't have in Defiance.

A well worn argument for leaving the progression as it is was, that EGO levels only show how much of the game you've played, and doesn't have a significant impact on your game above a certain point.

With the vertical progression introduced in 1.5, however, EGO levels will have an impact. Power and survivability will depend on it. Content will need a certain level to be done without too much frustration. The new vendor gear will need a minimum EGO level.

In short, the old argument doesn't hold.

The PvP pursuits aren't the only ones I won't do either. I crash consistently in instanced content. I've only been able to finish the storyline by restarting the instanced missions again and again and again, until I was able to finish them. Co-ops are barred to me. I've stopped trying arkbreaks out of frustration, since 19 out of 20 dies before the end. Last I tried DLC1 arenas, they were stable, but I really, really, really find them stale and the concept a contrivance. Gunslinger arenas tend to crash as well...

So, a number of pursuits are beyond my reach.

Furthermore, I bought and play Defiance as a third person SHOOTER. I have no interest in racing games, and found to my dismay, that a lot of pursuits need at least silver in time trials for completion. So I am forced to do content I find boring/frustrating, if I want to progress.

Add to that the fact that I have artheritis in my hands, and the controls tend to tense up my left hand in particular, several minutes at a time, without the chance to loosen up. In short, trying to complete these pursuits is causing me consideral, lasting pain. I've managed to complete the Madera pursuit for two characters, because I wanted the helmet it gave badly. However, doing the time trials again and again is possibly the worst gaming experience in my entire life!

I don't want that content to disappear from the game. I just want the option to do something else to progress. I play to relax and have fun. I want story and immersion. However, when I need to do frustrating gameplay, chores, or content that is openly contrived (like hotshots, rampages and arenas), it starts to feel more like a waste of my time.

And the time that I leave, is when the fun is outweighed by the frustration.

Angeleus09
04-13-2014, 07:35 PM
I watched the pilot, and then bailed. It was uninspired, boring 'SyFy' filler with some of the worst CGI and matting I've ever seen. The 'Volge attack' (if I recall the plot correctly) at the end had zero excitement or sense of danger. The whole thing was just awful.

Haven't been back since to see any episodes after that. Nor do I have any desire to.

It definitely got better. I feel like it was so-so up until Episode 8, that was a really interesting episode that cracked open a lot of potential in terms of an engaging long-term plot to explore. From there I feel like the quality was pretty consistent and I'm actually quite looking forward to the second season.

On the note of PvP, it really wasn't anything I was into early in the game's life cycle and by the time I felt like trying it, it had died off considerably so it was horrible luck trying to get a match. As with all PvP in any online game you're just going to have a bad time at first and it's only after getting familiar with the maps and scenarios that you'll start to really hit your stride and enjoy it. With matches so infrequent that couldn't happen and it became yet another exercise in frustration to be ignored.

However after several recent patches to the queuing system PvP matches became a lot easier to find. The PvP actually isn't half bad at all once you learn your way around but you have to be willing to eat a bit of dirt when you first drop in.

I feel like DLC 5 here is shaking up enough of the core mechanics of the game that the devs finally feel like they've hit on a good formula, like this is the game Defiance should have been from the start. Hopefully that's the case and with the core game now in a more stable place they can move their focus to developing that new landmass Trick mentioned and other substantial content.

And the PS4/XB1 versions....right? C'mon, Scrapes, give me that nod to let me know it's happening. Just a wink? Ok how about this, do not reply to this post if a next-gen version of the game is in the works somewhere, it'll be out little secret.

Atticus Batman
04-13-2014, 08:56 PM
Personally I don't like PvP in general. In some MMOs it can be fun under controlled condition, with objective focused gameplay and people wanting to work together. But generally I avoid it. I've tried a fair amount of MMOs, and at times tried rolling characters on PvP servers as well. However, I've found PvP enthusiasts to be tiring company for the most part. That doesn't mean I want PvP to be removed from the MMOs I play. I just want the option not to take part in it.That option I don't have in Defiance.

A well worn argument for leaving the progression as it is was, that EGO levels only show how much of the game you've played, and doesn't have a significant impact on your game above a certain point.

With the vertical progression introduced in 1.5, however, EGO levels will have an impact. Power and survivability will depend on it. Content will need a certain level to be done without too much frustration. The new vendor gear will need a minimum EGO level.

In short, the old argument doesn't hold.

The PvP pursuits aren't the only ones I won't do either. I crash consistently in instanced content. I've only been able to finish the storyline by restarting the instanced missions again and again and again, until I was able to finish them. Co-ops are barred to me. I've stopped trying arkbreaks out of frustration, since 19 out of 20 dies before the end. Last I tried DLC1 arenas, they were stable, but I really, really, really find them stale and the concept a contrivance. Gunslinger arenas tend to crash as well...

So, a number of pursuits are beyond my reach.

Furthermore, I bought and play Defiance as a third person SHOOTER. I have no interest in racing games, and found to my dismay, that a lot of pursuits need at least silver in time trials for completion. So I am forced to do content I find boring/frustrating, if I want to progress.

Add to that the fact that I have artheritis in my hands, and the controls tend to tense up my left hand in particular, several minutes at a time, without the chance to loosen up. In short, trying to complete these pursuits is causing me consideral, lasting pain. I've managed to complete the Madera pursuit for two characters, because I wanted the helmet it gave badly. However, doing the time trials again and again is possibly the worst gaming experience in my entire life!

I don't want that content to disappear from the game. I just want the option to do something else to progress. I play to relax and have fun. I want story and immersion. However, when I need to do frustrating gameplay, chores, or content that is openly contrived (like hotshots, rampages and arenas), it starts to feel more like a waste of my time.

And the time that I leave, is when the fun is outweighed by the frustration.

First of all, it is all optional. Nobody is making you get the pursuits or achievements. Most of the ones who feel forced to get achievements do it out of an obsession. As for the PvP pursuits being made optional, in a sense that you can level up to the cap without ever doing them or other pursuits you hate. I agree with. Truthfully I'd rather they just give us a flat experience grind. Change all pursuit rewards to unigue items/titles and maybe a very cool/unique item for completing a whole set of pursuits. But if they do that or REMOVE certain pursuits like the self-absorbed that call me selfish want, then they should retroactively give those items to those that completed the pursuits. And if they remove them, then those who did the now non-existent pursuits should get a unique outfit and title. Heck I would be fine with it if the title was "Pursuit Baboon" Or Pursuit bafoon" or Pursuit Sucker." The point is, yes some people would rather whine than work for something, but those that worked towards it SHOULD get something for their work, other than the (Monty Python) black knight treatment!

http://theawesomer.com/photos/2013/07/monty_python_black_knight_magnet_1.jpg

N3gativeCr33p
04-14-2014, 05:54 AM
The 'Volge attack' (if I recall the plot correctly) at the end had zero excitement or sense of danger. The whole thing was just awful.

In the pilot's defense, at least their Volge weren't decorated like the sugar plum fairies from The Nutcracker...

http://community.defiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DLC5ScalingEnemies__Title_Blog.jpg

Tsort
04-14-2014, 06:13 AM
In the pilot's defense, at least their Volge weren't decorated like the sugar plum fairies from The Nutcracker...
Water, meet mon... well you got the idea.

BJWyler
04-14-2014, 06:14 AM
First of all, it is all optional. Nobody is making you get the pursuits or achievements. Most of the ones who feel forced to get achievements do it out of an obsession. As for the PvP pursuits being made optional, in a sense that you can level up to the cap without ever doing them or other pursuits you hate. I agree with.

Which is pretty much the way it works now. With the additional episode and DLC pursuits, you can pretty much avoid PvP and still hit the current 5000 cap. What EGO points the PvP pursuits offer now aren't all that much in the grand scheme of things to significantly weaken a character or a player's experience by not having them.

I am a PvEer, and a single-player PvEer at that. If no MMO ever offered a PvP feature in the game, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. The only change I ever wanted for the pursuits was to make the one PvP requirement for EGO Master (or whatever the non-PvP specific pursuit was) to be interchangable with Paradise Faction. However, in no way shape or form do I believe they should remove the PvP specific pursuits from the game. PvP is a part of this game. It doesn't matter how small the community may be, or how little PvP is actually experienced in the game, it is still a part of the game, therefore should have pursuits dedicated to that portion of the game. It really doesn't make sense to me to have it any other way.

Yrkul
04-14-2014, 06:32 AM
First of all, it is all optional. Nobody is making you get the pursuits or achievements. Most of the ones who feel forced to get achievements do it out of an obsession. As for the PvP pursuits being made optional, in a sense that you can level up to the cap without ever doing them or other pursuits you hate. I agree with. Truthfully I'd rather they just give us a flat experience grind. Change all pursuit rewards to unigue items/titles and maybe a very cool/unique item for completing a whole set of pursuits. But if they do that or REMOVE certain pursuits like the self-absorbed that call me selfish want, then they should retroactively give those items to those that completed the pursuits. And if they remove them, then those who did the now non-existent pursuits should get a unique outfit and title. Heck I would be fine with it if the title was "Pursuit Baboon" Or Pursuit bafoon" or Pursuit Sucker." The point is, yes some people would rather whine than work for something, but those that worked towards it SHOULD get something for their work, other than the (Monty Python) black knight treatment!
That's pretty much where I want to go with this. I really like the black Dodge Challenger, but I'm never going to get one. I've accepted that, and I don't envy the people, who have earned that car. I don't want to see the black Challenger just handed out, sold for bits or the pursuits nerfed or removed either, because that would devalue the efford and accomplishments of the players, that worked so hard to get that car. I would also like the armour from Scrapworks, but that should stay as a reward for completion of content as well. Rewards should always be given, where rewards are due.

I would gladly accept an experience grind option, even at a ramped up xp cost after a certain point. Options are good.

Atticus Batman
04-14-2014, 03:45 PM
Which is pretty much the way it works now. With the additional episode and DLC pursuits, you can pretty much avoid PvP and still hit the current 5000 cap. What EGO points the PvP pursuits offer now aren't all that much in the grand scheme of things to significantly weaken a character or a player's experience by not having them.

I am a PvEer, and a single-player PvEer at that. If no MMO ever offered a PvP feature in the game, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. The only change I ever wanted for the pursuits was to make the one PvP requirement for EGO Master (or whatever the non-PvP specific pursuit was) to be interchangable with Paradise Faction. However, in no way shape or form do I believe they should remove the PvP specific pursuits from the game. PvP is a part of this game. It doesn't matter how small the community may be, or how little PvP is actually experienced in the game, it is still a part of the game, therefore should have pursuits dedicated to that portion of the game. It really doesn't make sense to me to have it any other way.

I agree, but there are so many people screaming for the removal of all PvP things, that I offered my opinion on how it could be changed, because removing everything would alienate those that did it. I think the echelon pursuit that was removed from the pursuit that has the ego 4k unlock in it, was dumb. They could have just made that echeleon thing optional, and assigned a purple gun to it, and retroactively gave that gun those that had already completed that portion.

Carnak
04-14-2014, 04:04 PM
I watched the pilot, and then bailed. It was uninspired, boring 'SyFy' filler with some of the worst CGI and matting I've ever seen. The 'Volge attack' (if I recall the plot correctly) at the end had zero excitement or sense of danger. The whole thing was just awful.

Haven't been back since to see any episodes after that. Nor do I have any desire to.

I can't compel you to watch any more episodes but honestly every single episode after the first one has been much, much, much better. Given SyFy's obsession with religion I'm not thrilled about those elements but in terms of quality all of the first series episodes excluding the pilot have been excellent.


First of all, it is all optional. Nobody is making you get the pursuits or achievements. Most of the ones who feel forced to get achievements do it out of an obsession.

Of course. It's not bad game design. Pretty much everyone - cos that's who doesn't play this game - is mentally ill. Sure.

The well established norm in online gaming is that all players can reach max level and without needing to complete or participate in any specific kind of content. Defiance chose a different path and the result was entirely predictably bad.

Carnak
04-14-2014, 04:08 PM
Furthermore, I bought and play Defiance as a third person SHOOTER. I have no interest in racing games, and found to my dismay, that a lot of pursuits need at least silver in time trials for completion. So I am forced to do content I find boring/frustrating, if I want to progress.

That's the killer for me too.

I come back occasionally and force myself to do some of this boring content to get those ego levels. But the more time I spend on those activities the less fun I have and eventually I grow so bored that I stop playing again.

The solo car races, arena stuff and pvp might be fun for some people but it should never have been anything but a purely optional extra with no associated ego restrictions.

Carnak
04-15-2014, 03:48 PM
Well I log in and it looks like achieving max ego will still require players to complete all pursuits. Madness.

I just can't do it. Some of the pursuits (eg. time trials) are literally impossible to complete thanks to high latency and server lag. Others are so dreadfully boring that they completely kill any joy I get from the parts of the game I do like.

I bought the digital ce and season pass cos even though Rift wasn't to my tastes I regarded Trion as honest and smart developers. I could not have imagined they'd do anything this silly. I held out hope up until this point that they'd see sense.

I think it's time to write off that $140, uninstall and throw in the towel.