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View Full Version : Out of Ammo - final phase of major Arkfalls



Embril
04-02-2013, 07:10 PM
After doing a few of these, the final phase of major arkfalls hits a frustrating wall when shortly into the battle 3/4 of the people fighting are out of ammunition and the other 25% are using the healing beam weapon since you don't have ammunition. Or damage, unfortunately, at that point.

There really needs to be an ammo box in these final phase areas, or little hellbugs that drop ammo, or something. Having to drive away, often blindly since there's no clear indicator of where ammunition is, in the middle of the fight to reload and come back is pretty bad. I was in one that failed a little while ago because nobody had any ammunition left to finish the fights in time and there was nowhere to restock near enough that it was possible for people to resupply.

Having to resupply ammunition anywhere is annoying to deal with, but these fights are long enough that it's not even a conservation issue...it's just not possible to use finite ammunition weapons in these battles and complete them without leaving the area entirely to try and restock. Infinite ammo weapons don't do enough damage to complete the objectives, either, so there's not much of a choice.

Defuge
04-02-2013, 07:15 PM
I was in one that failed a little while ago because nobody had any ammunition left to finish the fights in time and there was nowhere to restock near enough that it was possible for people to resupply.


I feel that if people had taken the time to go restock, despite how far away, instead of complaining then everything would've been fine.

On the other side of things: I completely agree with you. The ammo is too far out of the way to be *convenient*. It doesn't make Arkfalls impossible, it makes them inconvenient.

Kane
04-02-2013, 07:16 PM
the fix for this is so simple, spawn more low hp mobs (that do not scale to an infinite amount of hp with the number of players around) that people can kill and get ammo loot for them...

And running to get ammo is like doing a chore or like in the middle of the battle you have to go and pee (urinate in case it censors it)...it takes the fun out of the experience

Saethan
04-02-2013, 07:20 PM
Seems like every major arkfall I've been in so far there has been an ammo restock within 300-400m, takes no time at all to get there in a vehicle. The final battle usually takes quite a while, do a quick trip just outside the perimeter and you'll usually find a box(and then be kind and tell the other fighters where it is). I lost -one- major arkfall because nobody had ammo and ever since then I've made sure to scout out the nearest ammo box.

square
04-02-2013, 07:26 PM
Seems like every major arkfall I've been in so far there has been an ammo restock within 300-400m, takes no time at all to get there in a vehicle. The final battle usually takes quite a while, do a quick trip just outside the perimeter and you'll usually find a box(and then be kind and tell the other fighters where it is). I lost -one- major arkfall because nobody had ammo and ever since then I've made sure to scout out the nearest ammo box.

Do you enjoy being forced to leave in the middle of a battle, often multiple times?

If there isn't already, I'd like to see upgrades available for ammo capacity. Whether that's through EGO rating or perks or whatever.

Monkerlotus
04-02-2013, 07:48 PM
I just carry a few different ammo types of whens.. an infector, a pistol, an assault rifle, a grenade launcher and a shotgun... i'm always fine on ammo that way.

Embril
04-02-2013, 08:09 PM
I feel that if people had taken the time to go restock, despite how far away, instead of complaining then everything would've been fine.

I didn't see any complaining until afterward, and at least in this particular case I have no idea where an ammo box was that was nearby. I found one a fair distance down the road after the fight that I suppose could have been used, but idea of leaving in the middle of the fight to go search for one is something that doesn't sit well with me. If I know where one is and it's a short trip I'll definitely make the trip, but driving and looking for one when you don't know where one is hurts.


Seems like every major arkfall I've been in so far there has been an ammo restock within 300-400m, takes no time at all to get there in a vehicle. The final battle usually takes quite a while, do a quick trip just outside the perimeter and you'll usually find a box(and then be kind and tell the other fighters where it is). I lost -one- major arkfall because nobody had ammo and ever since then I've made sure to scout out the nearest ammo box.

Usually being the key word. Usually, I find one...in this case, I didn't, and enough other people didn't that we didn't finish the fight.

Regardless of the work arounds, looking for ammo mid-fight isn't fun. Putting in small enemies to make ammo spawn, adding ammo regen to healing done to other players, or even making ammo packs that you can carry from a supply point and drop for people in the battle would all be fun co-operative ways to improve the situation.

djin
04-02-2013, 08:12 PM
I believe this is an issue that hasn't been addressed since beta. For the other arkfalls, they drop ammo, but on a major arkfall, for some reason they don't. Also to note, people drive in with their vehicle and instagib the bugs we were shooting at, causing nothing to be dropped.

ironhands
04-02-2013, 08:48 PM
why have ammo capacity at all if it's so easy to get? I like having to break off to reload everything. encourages me to limit my shots to when it counts, instead of wasting rounds that won't do much damage when a weak spot isn't available.

ironhands
04-02-2013, 08:48 PM
Do you enjoy being forced to leave in the middle of a battle, often multiple times?

If there isn't already, I'd like to see upgrades available for ammo capacity. Whether that's through EGO rating or perks or whatever.

there are ammo regen perks

dirtyklingon
04-02-2013, 08:52 PM
why have ammo capacity at all if it's so easy to get? I like having to break off to reload everything. encourages me to limit my shots to when it counts, instead of wasting rounds that won't do much damage when a weak spot isn't available.
except it doesn'te even matter that there's a finite amount of ammount 99% of the time.

except ofc in the final stage of a major arkfall when suddenly you've run out of ammo completely on 2 profiles and are meleeing things down racing the time and bunny hopping to punch the larva whil eburing your cd on your nade to do any dps at all.

i feel like finite ammo is just there because "shooter have finite ammo because that's how shooters are because that's how they are because doom1"

Tri
04-02-2013, 08:54 PM
Maybe I haven't been to the later arcfalls, and maybe I just don't know... but it seems to me...

That the majority of people in these arc-falls spend 1/2 of the time firing randomly at the bugs' armor instead of their weak spots.

Admit it, the arc-fall that requires you to shoot at the weak spots of the crystal;
How many people do you see randomly shooting at everything that moves.

Fact is.. you can't stop stupid.
All you can do is not reward it.


--------------------------------

That all said, MAYBE things are different out of the starting zone. Maybe it is harder.
At the same time, they are the raids. They wouldn't be fun if they were easy.

TEAMWORK! :)

ironhands
04-02-2013, 08:59 PM
except it doesn'te even matter that there's a finite amount of ammount 99% of the time.

except ofc in the final stage of a major arkfall when suddenly you've run out of ammo completely on 2 profiles and are meleeing things down racing the time and bunny hopping to punch the larva whil eburing your cd on your nade to do any dps at all.

i feel like finite ammo is just there because "shooter have finite ammo because that's how shooters are because that's how they are because doom1"

that's just my point. Why not do away with ammo capacity completely if it shouldn't be an issue? The big problem would likely be that high rate of fire weapons like the SMG would suddenly become more powerful. Being able to refill them after you drain them in a minute would probably throw off the balance. That's how I see it anyway. Forcing the players to break off to reload keeps the burst DPS in line with the long term DPS, just like managing your mana or stamina in an MMORPG for the DPS classes

Swole
04-02-2013, 08:59 PM
My biggest problem, is that I never got any loot from my major. I got a video of the boss fight, and I plan on uploading it to YT, however. After all was said and done, I went into the beam of light, but never got anything from it. And i came in 3rd place on the score sheet.

ironhands
04-02-2013, 09:01 PM
That the majority of people in these arc-falls spend 1/2 of the time firing randomly at the bugs' armor instead of their weak spots.

there ya go. the event goes a lot faster if people shoot the right things, meaning everyones ammo consumption will be more efficient, especially if there are more people in the event. wow. inner math geek wants to figure out the ratio of ammo drops to DPS. there's a magic number in there

ironhands
04-02-2013, 09:01 PM
My biggest problem, is that I never got any loot from my major. I got a video of the boss fight, and I plan on uploading it to YT, however. After all was said and done, I went into the beam of light, but never got anything from it. And i came in 3rd place on the score sheet.

loots off atm for balancing

mikegonzalez2k
04-02-2013, 09:09 PM
I completely agree, it was poor design to have the ammo crates so far from the region where the arkfalls were placed. Players should not have to leave the area to reload.

They could have placed several crates around the outskirts of the "room" or region. But should be within walking distance.

Alternatively, they could make certain creatures spawn which drop ammo to keep you stocked up.

Third Alternative, as you damage the Arkfall it randomly drops ammo making you have to stop and loot every once in a while.


There are many ways this could be remedied so I sincerely hope it is or I will be avoiding the Arkfalls in general which is stupid because it's a main feature in this game, it's like playing Rift and not doing any of the special Life Rifts because you are worried about not having enough magic to get through the fight.

Failed
04-02-2013, 09:09 PM
I left a major arcfall for ammo twice earlier, and I was on top of the scoreboard. Runnong to get ammo for your main weps are important, and as many have stated above, there are usually ammo crates within 4-500 meters.

mongolianmisfit
04-02-2013, 09:22 PM
Thing is though you cant control the other 20 people in the area. The game is new, it will be a few days or weeks before people catch on and perfect only hitting weak spots, waiting to kill little hellbugs, etc etc.

There needs to be a better indicator on map to show an ammo crate or fix drop rates for ammo during the major arkfall.

Failed
04-02-2013, 09:24 PM
Thing is though you cant control the other 20 people in the area. The game is new, it will be a few days or weeks before people catch on and perfect only hitting weak spots, waiting to kill little hellbugs, etc etc.

There needs to be a better indicator on map to show an ammo crate or fix drop rates for ammo during the major arkfall.
This I agree on, other than that I think the ammo setup is good as it is now.

ironhands
04-02-2013, 09:25 PM
Thing is though you cant control the other 20 people in the area. The game is new, it will be a few days or weeks before people catch on and perfect only hitting weak spots, waiting to kill little hellbugs, etc etc.

There needs to be a better indicator on map to show an ammo crate or fix drop rates for ammo during the major arkfall.

There is a little grey exclamation mark for the ammo spot on the minimap, but it doesn't show a pointer if it's out of range. A directional arrow to the closest would solve the issue, but really, the arkfalls always pop in the same locations, so it's pretty easy to remember, and people do call it out in chat.

mongolianmisfit
04-02-2013, 09:29 PM
There is a little grey exclamation mark for the ammo spot on the minimap, but it doesn't show a pointer if it's out of range. A directional arrow to the closest would solve the issue, but really, the arkfalls always pop in the same locations, so it's pretty easy to remember, and people do call it out in chat.

The market icon is fairly similar. It is still pretty small and I dont think it is even on the map key. Hence why they should make a more distinguishable icon for it.

GarfrostPAX
04-02-2013, 09:54 PM
Would be nice if they'd at least display ammo depots on the map. When I see a large Major Arkfall pop up first thing I do is run around locating an ammo depot, setting a waypoint and stocking up on ammo then head back. I just run back and forth really, it's not that big of a deal as they're usually like 200 meters away.

Klendest
04-02-2013, 10:09 PM
I wonder if everyone aimed at the vulnerable spots of the bugs rather than bury rounds into their shells would ammo be as big an issue.

The other thing to take into account is with certain perks applied, a part of having a specific loadout to be to regenerate and loot more ammo.


My biggest issue with the major arkfalls is the simplicity. Was hoping to see a little more of a puzzle element (not sure the right phrase) in shooting things to bring down the monsters.

Embril
04-02-2013, 10:16 PM
Maybe I haven't been to the later arcfalls, and maybe I just don't know... but it seems to me...

That the majority of people in these arc-falls spend 1/2 of the time firing randomly at the bugs' armor instead of their weak spots.

Admit it, the arc-fall that requires you to shoot at the weak spots of the crystal;
How many people do you see randomly shooting at everything that moves.

Fact is.. you can't stop stupid.
All you can do is not reward it.


Watch how much damage you do on exposed points vs. unexposed. If you only fire when the weak points are exposed, the enemies would need to spend much more of the time they're there with a point exposed. They don't, especially the matriarchs that you need to kill on the last major arkfall phase, who have short enough windows of opportunity to do critical damage that you aren't going to make up for the lost damage in time if you only fire during exposed periods. The only waste of ammo is what's spent on enemies other than the objectives, since even if they are finally brought down they don't drop enough to make it worth the expenditure.

It might also be worth noting that if those people killing random things other than the objective spawned drops in this phase like they do against the crystals, they'd still be providing value to the group of people there. Even on those, the only things that shouldn't be killed are the skitterlings; it's too dangerous for virtually everyone to ignore the other enemies, especially once the blast pods are up.

You're calling people stupid, but there's more than one way to contribute. The only ones that I think deserve the stamp are the ones who never get out of their vehicle and drive their cars around throughout the fights.

Anyway, the lack of ammo generation in these fights seems unintentional considering it's the only place in the game that I've seen that's like this. I'm sure it'll be fixed once they examine it a bit.

StormShadow
04-02-2013, 10:45 PM
never had an ammo problem before in other phases. no the game is live and ammo is an issue in arkfalls. Part of the issue might be the morons driving there cars all over in the beginning because the little guys don't drop anything when they get run over.

djin
04-02-2013, 10:56 PM
New patch that is happening right now. (Of course this is just a snippet of a small handful)

Patch Notes:
- Added Ammo caches to Major Arkfalls

Embril
04-02-2013, 10:57 PM
It looks like it's being fixed in the current downtime and they've added ammo to major arkfalls. Crisis averted!

(and if you read the forums, thanks guys!)

/edit: curse you djin, I was late by -this- much ;)

Zeroexit
04-02-2013, 11:09 PM
Loadouts people! Your given multiple as you rank up so you can use a multitude of weapons and ammos.

djin
04-02-2013, 11:10 PM
It looks like it's being fixed in the current downtime and they've added ammo to major arkfalls. Crisis averted!

(and if you read the forums, thanks guys!)

/edit: curse you djin, I was late by -this- much ;)

Haha. At least we both had the same thing in mind in helping out and informing these poor souls.

Moose Of Woe
04-02-2013, 11:13 PM
Loadouts people! Your given multiple as you rank up so you can use a multitude of weapons and ammos.

You don't seriously expect people to THINK, do you? Nerf bat ahoy!

ironhands
04-03-2013, 06:32 AM
aaannnnd patched :P

dirtyklingon
04-03-2013, 06:37 AM
that's just my point. Why not do away with ammo capacity completely if it shouldn't be an issue? The big problem would likely be that high rate of fire weapons like the SMG would suddenly become more powerful. Being able to refill them after you drain them in a minute would probably throw off the balance. That's how I see it anyway. Forcing the players to break off to reload keeps the burst DPS in line with the long term DPS, just like managing your mana or stamina in an MMORPG for the DPS classes

thing is you can spec so your smg never runs out of ammo anyway, same as any other weapon.

which is why i regret not going overcharge now entirely for ammo reasons.


as for the whole not shooting the right things... arcfalls on the bottom island in teh final stage have only weak spots. not hitting the weakspots does absolutely nothing. but you will deffo run out of ammo unless you die and rez up right next to the closest ammo crate.


i've run out of ammo on bug arkfalls and then kinda scouted around the area looking for ammo crates but not found them. i foudn that going melee/grenadier was more effective for them than looking for ammo. except it's just not fun to do that.

NihilSineNefas
04-03-2013, 06:59 AM
I feel that if people had taken the time to go restock, despite how far away, instead of complaining then everything would've been fine.

On the other side of things: I completely agree with you. The ammo is too far out of the way to be *convenient*. It doesn't make Arkfalls impossible, it makes them inconvenient.
But that's what your vehicles are for to travel faster, and that the weak points of your enemy is, to use your ammo wisely, shoot where the weakness is, take your time. Well that's one of the major point that i loved about this game.

NihilSineNefas
04-03-2013, 07:01 AM
You don't seriously expect people to THINK, do you? Nerf bat ahoy!
But they got brain, it should serve its purpose sooner or later.

NihilSineNefas
04-03-2013, 07:01 AM
aaannnnd patched :P

I know :( I felt so down cause of it.

Doc
04-03-2013, 07:05 AM
In beta there where no ammo issues...what happened at launch lol....very disappointing.

ironhands
04-03-2013, 07:41 AM
thing is you can spec so your smg never runs out of ammo anyway, same as any other weapon.

which is why i regret not going overcharge now entirely for ammo reasons.


as for the whole not shooting the right things... arcfalls on the bottom island in teh final stage have only weak spots. not hitting the weakspots does absolutely nothing. but you will deffo run out of ammo unless you die and rez up right next to the closest ammo crate.


i've run out of ammo on bug arkfalls and then kinda scouted around the area looking for ammo crates but not found them. i foudn that going melee/grenadier was more effective for them than looking for ammo. except it's just not fun to do that.

SMG with near infinite ammo would seem really OP at first glance... The final arkfall areas are likely going to be the ones with the most active people, so, with the added DPS, ammo shouldn't be a concern... but it's all moot now, they added ammo crates

TaiBrix
04-03-2013, 07:48 AM
Patch went in last nite to fix this - here is what Sledgehammer said:

Server Update: April 2nd 10:45pm - Xbox, PC and PS3

We will be starting server updates on all platforms beginning at 10:45pm PT.

Server Downtime:
Date: April 2nd, 2013
Time: 10:45pm PT
Duration: 1 hour

Patch Notes:
- Added Ammo caches to Major Arkfalls
- Fixed a rare condition where you could get stuck in the tutorial
- Altered loot drop on some mini bosses to reduce item farming
- Temporally Disabled Freight Yard (16v16 Instance)
- Updated incorrectly marked epic weapons to common items
- Detonator Tuning
- Corrected Hotshot Challenge reward in Marin
- Server and client crash fixes

TaiBrix
04-03-2013, 10:43 AM
Just played a Major Hellbug Arkfall and there was no ammo at any of the sites and no ammo drops at the final battle. Really did not see any change from this update. The Arkfall was in Sausalito area.