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View Full Version : DLC5 / WM / scaling doesn't work properly



Tsort
04-15-2014, 04:05 PM
Look what happened twice:

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/7066682014041600003.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=7066682014041600003.jpg)

Notice my EGO level. Quite uncomfortable.

More details :
I scaled properly to 4750 in the upper room. When all the Volge were dead, I was back to 121. Descended, depleted all my ammo trying to shoot a lock (lol). The monkey woke up and I thought the boost would trigger again, but nope. Big WTF moment. I survived for quite a long time, then had to extract.

Upon extraction my EGO was again boosted to 4750 properly. I finally jumped down with guns blazing and... landed on an explosion and died instantly, lol!!

Fast forward a couple of extractions later, and it happened once again. After extracting my EGO didn't scale until the next death.

Deunan
04-15-2014, 04:44 PM
It's not supposed to drop at all. Definitely bug report that. Do you know if anyone else there had the same scaling issue?

Tsort
04-15-2014, 04:48 PM
I was a little bit busy running around you know... :) I didn't take the time to ask.

We managed to kill it though. Got two purples that went straight to salvage (DLC weapons, can't use them).

CM Kiwibird
04-15-2014, 04:57 PM
We're looking into it. Thanks for the report! :o

Fuzzy
04-15-2014, 06:00 PM
Scaling really seems off.
The WM should scale to the # of players who are inside, right?
But with this DLC, high ego players make more damage than low ego players, so they need a buff.
I guess this somehow gets put into the equation too.

But people only get scaled to 4.500 Ego, make less damage than over 5k Ego anyway.
The armor plate is simply too strong for the normal group to take on. Even with 5 of the biggest hitters on EU servers, we took his armor off after.. uh, 3 1/2 minutes? In the remaining time, he lost maybe one fourth of his HP.
I think this somehow is related to the problem described by the OP.

Also, what I would like to know: Why does the WM gets mid-fight armor plates again? (picture)
I noticed this on the PTS too, but I thought it was because we were all dead and extracted.
But there were so many people down there, not all of us were dead and extracted at the same time.
That it a damage reduction by 20% (I even think there were 7 or 8 armor plates, but my screen only shows 2).
It happened numerous times while we were in the fight. My Wildcat has bio on it, so it is no problem to get through it, but all other players who don't have bio weapons and shoot at it until someone with a bio weapon shoots at it, make significantly less damage than they would normally do.

People who know me I'm not one to cry for a nerf but take it from a pretty expierenced player: It is hard, maybe even too hard for the normal group to take on.
Gotta try tomorrow to get the best WM people I know and take him on... We did one with 8 people just two days ago...

http://i.imgur.com/x1q2olh.jpg

Deunan
04-15-2014, 06:35 PM
The Warmaster is completely broken.

1. Threat Level scaling doesn't work in his chamber, only upstairs. Lower EGO rating characters may as well be using pea shooters on him so it is a gigantic nerf to group DPS.
2. His shield bar was not there. It was conspicuously visible on the test server. Is it even there? Players aren't going to use Electrical if they don't know he has a shield. If it is there how are we supposed to know when to switch from Electrical to Bio/Radiation/Nano-less weapons? Use the Force? Two more gigantic nerfs to group DPS.
3. His Armor Plating icons are not visible most of the time. Sometimes they would appear and then disappear. Players aren't going to necessarily use Bio nano weapons if they don't see he has Armor Plating. A huge nerf to group DPS.

The effort was a total disaster. Players weren't using bio weapons or the ones that were were so low in EGO rating that it wasn't helpful, probably because he appeared to have no armor plating. His bar literally looked exactly like it did pre-patch. As a result of all this his crystal armor didn't break until there was less than a minute left. With everything you broke on him I'm surprised we even managed to do that. It was ludicrous.

He was absolutely not like this on the Test Server. His only issue appeared to be that his own scaling was broken sometimes. How could you have made it so much worse between then and now?

Bonehead
04-15-2014, 06:38 PM
The Warmaster is completely broken.

How could you have made it so much worse between then and now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUFY8Zw0Bag

Odessa
04-15-2014, 08:06 PM
The Warmaster is completely broken.

1. Threat Level scaling doesn't work in his chamber, only upstairs. Lower EGO rating characters may as well be using pea shooters on him so it is a gigantic nerf to group DPS.
2. His shield bar was not there. It was conspicuously visible on the test server. Is it even there? Players aren't going to use Electrical if they don't know he has a shield. If it is there how are we supposed to know when to switch from Electrical to Bio/Radiation/Nano-less weapons? Use the Force? Two more gigantic nerfs to group DPS.
3. His Armor Plating icons are not visible most of the time. Sometimes they would appear and then disappear. Players aren't going to necessarily use Bio nano weapons if they don't see he has Armor Plating. A huge nerf to group DPS.

The effort was a total disaster. Players weren't using bio weapons or the ones that were were so low in EGO rating that it wasn't helpful, probably because he appeared to have no armor plating. His bar literally looked exactly like it did pre-patch. As a result of all this his crystal armor didn't break until there was less than a minute left. With everything you broke on him I'm surprised we even managed to do that. It was ludicrous.

He was absolutely not like this on the Test Server. His only issue appeared to be that his own scaling was broken sometimes. How could you have made it so much worse between then and now?

I *tried* to do a WM this evening and gave up on the outside. The enemies were too many and everyone around was extracting, down more than up. We had six tankers on the map, which is insane considering the amount of apex level raiders/rioters/etc... It was a complete mess and three friends signed off of the game to do something that did involve constant respawning.

That being said... I have no real clue as to how to get past these guys, much less the WM. I was told not to use Bio since it seems to glitch him. Your post seemed to list a clear plan of action when fighting these enemies. Is Bio the key to getting through this? I am hoping someone steps up to post something about what works and how to get through the game without hating it.

DSW
04-15-2014, 08:18 PM
Scaling really seems off.
The WM should scale to the # of players who are inside, right?
But with this DLC, high ego players make more damage than low ego players, so they need a buff.
I guess this somehow gets put into the equation too.

But people only get scaled to 4.500 Ego, make less damage than over 5k Ego anyway.
The armor plate is simply too strong for the normal group to take on. Even with 5 of the biggest hitters on EU servers, we took his armor off after.. uh, 3 1/2 minutes? In the remaining time, he lost maybe one fourth of his HP.
I think this somehow is related to the problem described by the OP.

Also, what I would like to know: Why does the WM gets mid-fight armor plates again? (picture)
I noticed this on the PTS too, but I thought it was because we were all dead and extracted.
But there were so many people down there, not all of us were dead and extracted at the same time.
That it a damage reduction by 20% (I even think there were 7 or 8 armor plates, but my screen only shows 2).
It happened numerous times while we were in the fight. My Wildcat has bio on it, so it is no problem to get through it, but all other players who don't have bio weapons and shoot at it until someone with a bio weapon shoots at it, make significantly less damage than they would normally do.

People who know me I'm not one to cry for a nerf but take it from a pretty expierenced player: It is hard, maybe even too hard for the normal group to take on.
Gotta try tomorrow to get the best WM people I know and take him on... We did one with 8 people just two days ago...

http://i.imgur.com/x1q2olh.jpg

at what time u're going to make a dream-team?

SirServed
04-15-2014, 09:21 PM
My guess is that they made his energy gathering while hanging do something useful. When he uses his shield breaker it also restores 10 plates to him from what I saw.

Deunan
04-15-2014, 09:55 PM
My guess is that they made his energy gathering while hanging do something useful. When he uses his shield breaker it also restores 10 plates to him from what I saw.Confirmed by Trick. He showed up on the PC NA server and told us exactly this. It's another reason to consider targeting the arm instead of the back. If you target the arm you can knock him off the wall effectively shutting down his dropshock attack.

Trick also said they are patching the issue where Threat Level dynamic scaling isn't working in the Warmaster chamber tomorrow.

He definitely has no visible shield bar or Armor Plate icons at the start but it could be that they simply go down that fast with a full group. I know they went down really fast with just three of us on the test server.

Tekrunner
04-15-2014, 11:04 PM
I believe it is voluntary that the WM gets armor plates back during the fight. Trick mentioned on a livestream that they had tried to make the fight a little more dynamic, to make players use the right nano / weapon at the right time. But his armor plates don't seem any stronger than on any regular enemy, so they tend to get destroyed really fast and people might not even notice them. Same thing with his initial shield, it gets destroyed very quickly.

Had an attempt with a group that would definitely have beaten it pre-DLC, we didn't do too badly but ran out of time at like 15% of its HP. It does seem significantly harder right now, but before calling for a nerf we should remember that 1) EGO boosts don't always work properly, so low EGO players may not be doing as much damage as they should, and 2) top EGO players are not using max EGO weapons yet, so they too are dealing significantly less damage than they could.

In a few weeks when boost problems are fixed and we're blasting it with 5500+ weapons the difficulty may be back to where it was.

Deunan
04-15-2014, 11:44 PM
I'm not calling for a nerf. I was specifically looking for his shield bar and armor plate icons immediately upon breaking him out and they simply were not there so if that's not a bug then they are going down in less than a second with a full group. Most players have swapped out of their bio weapon after that so I can see his armor plates for a few seconds before we break them after his dropshock attack. The reason why he's is not being killed now is because Threat Level dynamic scaling isn't working so group DPS is taking a huge hit.

I try to explain to players what kind of nano-effect weapons are best to use and that nano-less weapons are actually great for going after his crystal armor but I'm not sure how many of them took it to heart. Players using electrical nano weapons would be taking a huge reduction on their DPS on him once his shields go down and players using Syphon, which was pretty popular before the patch, would also be taking a huge hit to their DPS.

SirServed
04-16-2014, 07:08 AM
The problem with knocking him off the wall, you can only do it once. So you have one instance of him not gaining 10 plates vs. a 15% damage boost for the whole fight. What I honestly saw myself every fight yesterday was 80% of the room filled by untrained Ark Hunters. People were doing novice stuff like running all the way across the room to feel safe. When WM chases them, everyone else has to chase him off their spikes. Not to mention it throws me off my rhythm of always being behind him for when he stops to drop bombs after an air phase and before another air phase. People don't understand that their minor actions affect the outcome of the fight in a major way.