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View Full Version : A Challenge. Nothing More, Nothing Less.



thejx4
04-15-2014, 06:41 PM
This is for those players, new and old, who "hate" the changes that the Arktech Revolution DLC have unloaded upon our beloved Defiance. Let me start off by saying, I am not one of you. I've been here since launch and have always had a huge dislike for how easy the game felt. I like the new difficulty, AI tactics and enemy variety. The scaling is not without its issues, but it works well for the most part.

I think the biggest problem here, is that there was just a lack of preparation. MMO faithfuls probably knew what to expect and how to handle the changes, but for the ones who just played Defiance as an action-shooter, it's a big pill to swallow. Armor, reliance on damage-types, tiered enemies, scaling, etc.

In simplest terms, how you played and what you played with, may or may not be compatible with Defiance 1.5

So what's the challenge?

Start over. Approach this like a brand new, yet familiar game. Make some friends or bring along the ones you already have. Pick a day, get everyone together. Start over. Play together, build your loadouts together. This is how Defiance was meant to be played and really nothing up to this point has encouraged that playstyle in a meaningful way. Try this for a week or two. Tell me how it goes. I'll be doing the same, posting a recap every friday for the rest of this month and the first two weeks of May.

Happy Hunting.

Iceberg
04-15-2014, 07:39 PM
I agree, the issue I am having is the games RNG still has not allowed me to get a bio nano gun to help with those pesky armor points. Leveling up my skills however seems much faster as does leveling my xp for my EGO. The guns should have been scaled 100% of the players ego level tbh, but I guess Trion wants us to spend money to level our guns up to our current levels.

Gone are the days of an incursion at kenn farms were everyone spawn kills the zombies and you go through waves in less than 3 seconds. Now when the hulkers come out everyone is fighting and dying trying to stay alive, pretty fun stuff :)

Bryce Davidson
04-15-2014, 07:46 PM
Garbage. It's going to take me several hours just to figure out the new mechanics. Nothing is explained.

ironcladtrash
04-15-2014, 07:51 PM
I agree, the issue I am having is the games RNG still has not allowed me to get a bio nano gun to help with those pesky armor points.

Check the Faction vendors, they have a purple bio saw and and purple bio sub carbine. They are both decent weapons and since they are faction weapons do increased damage.

Hogman505
04-15-2014, 07:53 PM
I agree, the issue I am having is the games RNG still has not allowed me to get a bio nano gun to help with those pesky armor points. Leveling up my skills however seems much faster as does leveling my xp for my EGO. The guns should have been scaled 100% of the players ego level tbh, but I guess Trion wants us to spend money to level our guns up to our current levels.

Gone are the days of an incursion at kenn farms were everyone spawn kills the zombies and you go through waves in less than 3 seconds. Now when the hulkers come out everyone is fighting and dying trying to stay alive, pretty fun stuff :)

And here is the problem...

As a new player, I haven't even gone out of sight of the New Freedom Crash Site and I get killed by every mob I run up against.

Sniper Ridge....I ran into Veteren Riflemen...5 shields....and there I was with my starter Assault Rifle and Starter Pistol and I died over and over and over and over and over and over (ad nauseum).

Not fun. Not the same game that I tried a week ago and then spent my $60 plus bucks on by purchasing the deluxe digital download and season pass. And now I feel that I've been ripped off bigtime by a company known for hammering it's customers. If the game had been like this when I first started I would have deleted it by the end of the first hour.

I play a game to have fun. If I want a challenge, I go to work and try to figure out how to do my job with 1/5 of the people that I need. I'm sick of challenges. I want to kill **** and pretend it's my boss every time. Now, my boss is kicking my butt.

mr8liner
04-15-2014, 07:58 PM
I agree, the issue I am having is the games RNG still has not allowed me to get a bio nano gun to help with those pesky armor points. Leveling up my skills however seems much faster as does leveling my xp for my EGO. The guns should have been scaled 100% of the players ego level tbh, but I guess Trion wants us to spend money to level our guns up to our current levels.

Gone are the days of an incursion at kenn farms were everyone spawn kills the zombies and you go through waves in less than 3 seconds. Now when the hulkers come out everyone is fighting and dying trying to stay alive, pretty fun stuff :)

I would like to disagree with you on that. Granted doing the ken farms incursion the Hulkers come out, but doing the plain ken farms the Hulkers never appear. The stages go by so fast that there is no time for them to come out. I have even noticed at the incursions that the Hulkers would disappear well before they die.

It seems to me that it went back to the way they were a few months ago when the stages lasted 5-10 seconds each and there were still a ton of enemies out there. Maybe things are different on what your playing on, but that is how I saw things going on in the ps3.

To the op, I have no problem with them making the guys harder to kill. Actually it was something that I was looking for. I did not expect for all of the guns that I have gotten in the past year to be junk though. Trion, could have easly gave us 100% ego match and would still have made some good money. They probbly would have made more doing a 100% ego match , then by doing the 75%. It now take 2 to 3 times longer to anything in the game. I will not buy bits so I can make my guns that I worked very hard for over that last year good enough to beat guys. 100-200 ego is no problem, but having to do 1000+ is BS

SkinSkull
04-15-2014, 08:14 PM
Amen. People used to complain about how easy it was. Trion listened.



This is for those players, new and old, who "hate" the changes that the Arktech Revolution DLC have unloaded upon our beloved Defiance. Let me start off by saying, I am not one of you. I've been here since launch and have always had a huge dislike for how easy the game felt. I like the new difficulty, AI tactics and enemy variety. The scaling is not without its issues, but it works well for the most part.

I think the biggest problem here, is that there was just a lack of preparation. MMO faithfuls probably knew what to expect and how to handle the changes, but for the ones who just played Defiance as an action-shooter, it's a big pill to swallow. Armor, reliance on damage-types, tiered enemies, scaling, etc.

In simplest terms, how you played and what you played with, may or may not be compatible with Defiance 1.5

So what's the challenge?

Start over. Approach this like a brand new, yet familiar game. Make some friends or bring along the ones you already have. Pick a day, get everyone together. Start over. Play together, build your loadouts together. This is how Defiance was meant to be played and really nothing up to this point has encouraged that playstyle in a meaningful way. Try this for a week or two. Tell me how it goes. I'll be doing the same, posting a recap every friday for the rest of this month and the first two weeks of May.

Happy Hunting.

Bryce Davidson
04-15-2014, 08:16 PM
It's..... GARBAGE. Over 80 hours logged and now that my inventory has been nerfed, I have essentially been rendered a bullet sponge for higher ranked players. GARBAGE.

Iceberg
04-15-2014, 08:17 PM
I would like to disagree with you on that. Granted doing the ken farms incursion the Hulkers come out, but doing the plain ken farms the Hulkers never appear. The stages go by so fast that there is no time for them to come out. I have even noticed at the incursions that the Hulkers would disappear well before they die.

It seems to me that it went back to the way they were a few months ago when the stages lasted 5-10 seconds each and there were still a ton of enemies out there. Maybe things are different on what your playing on, but that is how I saw things going on in the ps3.

To the op, I have no problem with them making the guys harder to kill. Actually it was something that I was looking for. I did not expect for all of the guns that I have gotten in the past year to be junk though. Trion, could have easly gave us 100% ego match and would still have made some good money. They probbly would have made more doing a 100% ego match , then by doing the 75%. It now take 2 to 3 times longer to anything in the game. I will not buy bits so I can make my guns that I worked very hard for over that last year good enough to beat guys. 100-200 ego is no problem, but having to do 1000+ is BS

If you are talking about the normal sieges they are not working correctly, they are not scaling with players. So everyone is able to mow them down pretty fast right now and hulkers only show up for a few seconds before the wave is over. A stingray bmg can really add a lot of kills/points to your score quickly.

grimmreefer
04-15-2014, 08:39 PM
lol i did pretty much the same thing looked at it as a newgame the changes arent as bad as people make them out to be. the enemies just seem to hav more health and spawn in ludicrous numbers at times but nothing you cant handle even solo with a good loadout and take thigs out strategically your golden... although the expert coop maps kinda remnd me of demon souls it was harder to get to the boss than it was to defeat it(except for old king hes a b*stard) also sometimes bmgs dont do any dmg till you switch weapons

DSW
04-15-2014, 08:42 PM
It's..... GARBAGE. Over 80 hours logged and now that my inventory has been nerfed, I have essentially been rendered a bullet sponge for higher ranked players. GARBAGE.

ever played Borderlands? no matter how good your gear is at level X, you'll trash it 2 to 10 levels later anyway.
at least Trion gives you 1000 arkforge to level up some of kick-***** guns you owned before 1.5 went live.

i've suffered some inventory losses too now, but my top5 guns were no more than 600 ego lower.

Bryce Davidson
04-15-2014, 08:45 PM
True. I'm sure it will be fine after some getting used to. Just difficult because it's my favorite game. I'll put in the hours to figure out the new mechanics and "hopefully" once I figure it out the game will be fun again and not just frustrating lmao. We shall see.

Gazz
04-15-2014, 08:49 PM
And here is the problem...

As a new player, I haven't even gone out of sight of the New Freedom Crash Site and I get killed by every mob I run up against.

Try doing a few side missions or even a co-op mission first. Good chance you will pick up (or be rewarded with a slightly better weapon).

And/or play with a friend, this appears to be the way Defiance is heading.. (Unfortunately).

:)

DSW
04-15-2014, 08:53 PM
we all need to get used to it. but i hope they would fix most of scaling issues (and maybe give us another 1000 AF for inconvenience?) with 1.501 or 1.502 patch.


i wonder how hard is DLC4 arenas now? i still need gold in all but DM bunker.

Nabuhris
04-15-2014, 09:07 PM
I kept saying it and i will keep saying it. The only good thing about Defiance and what made it quite unique was it's indiference towards scaling. I'm not saying that this change is not welcomed or welcomed in my opinion. I'm about halfway between those 2. If i wanted scaling enemies and weaponry i would've kept playing any of the many RPG + TPS/FPS games there on the market : Borderlands, Hellgate, DC Universe, Fallout, Skyrim, etc.

Defiance was different enough, very minor damage changes at weapons depending mostly on rarity and if belonged or not to a faction, nothing more, nothing less. The only thing needed imo was some more HP/AP given to the enemies and some more firepower to them, but this is insane. Did yesterday with a lot of my friends a Major Arkfall. Took us 21 minutes to enter it. 10 more minutes once we were inside, and where almost all of us just respawned, died, respawned, died, munching our scrip like it was nothing, 3-4 minutes just to break the seals ... and finished with only 10% damage made to the WM, we didn't even break any of his blue crystals. I have to admit, i laughed my arse off of how sad and ridicule it was. Before with a full shield and the +225 HP perk i was able to hold myself through 1 or 2 direct lightning bolts fired by the WM, now i die even if i'm at 5/10 meters from one of those. This. Is. Plain. Insanity. Not welcomed at all by the low ranked players.

jeffyvette
04-15-2014, 09:12 PM
I hope it is just a scaling issue. My brother and I had to try and get rid of the raiders and free farmers at one of the farms. He is an 800 level player and I am 1400. We would entirely empty a clip on a simple raider and can't kill him, where as they can almost always one or 2 shot me even with full shields. If this is not a problem the fun is gone out of the game and it is just frustration. I do agree that it needed to be harder but this is just wrong.

nathanpbutler
04-15-2014, 09:48 PM
It really seems to be what event one is trying to play that determines whether this is challenge or just frustration. I finally hit and passed EGO 5000 today, and I mainly played some arkfalls, sieges, and a couple of co-ops on expert.

The arkfalls were great fun with the new scaling and such, and even though the expert co-ops are basically just "hey, let's just basically spawn enemies in multiples of normal co-ops enemies," those were fun too, barring a disconnect near the end of Motherlode.

However, the very first place I went when I finished patching today was a Volge siege full of Ark Viscera. I might as well have been flinging droplets of urine at them for all the good it did. Using a modded-up cluster shot and a modded up hellcat (the Wolfhound variant), I was doing virtually no damage whatsoever to them. I eventually wound up by one of the capture points, surrounded by (and, yes, I counted) *17* other players, all crawling around on the ground. In my case, I was downed by an Ark Viscera, and the instant I revived, one hit from the same Ark Viscera sent me back into "crawl around or extract" purgatory. It is as if the scaling system is designed with the expectation that you will be fighting the same enemies when in groups, rather than having people in the same general area but fighting completely different enemies. At a Volge Siege, that means a lot of powerful enemies and a lot of downed players. I'll play a handful more Volge Sieges to see if I fare any better, but if tonight is any indication, I'll simply be ignoring Volge Sieges in the near future. They now feel ridiculous.

Barring that particular category, though, I'd agree that there's a welcome challenge to familiar maps, though new players are going to get pounded into mush with a pretty steep learning curve (especially when things like shield plates for players *and* enemies aren't at all explained in-game).

Deunan
04-15-2014, 10:47 PM
There are some things that players will not be able to get used to because the new dynamic scaling system as a whole was poorly thought out, poorly designed and poorly implemented. They reactivated dynamic scaling at Conflict Sites between our last time on the test server and going live. The game is extremely broken for low EGO rating players. They will continue to die on missions, doing contracts and exploring the map simply because the developers decided to ignore our feedback during our time on the test server. Most of you who are saying it's not that bad are completely self absorbed playing your characters with higher EGO rating.

There's no nice way to say this but you sound completely clueless about what this does to new players' perception of the game or what it will end up doing to player retention rates for new players or future prospects for the game. It is not a challenge for an EGO < 500 character or even a group of them to engage content where the mobs have been scaled to the third or fourth difficulty tier but the Threat Level multiplier is gone for them because the High EGO rating player that happened to be driving by the area was long gone before they got there. It is suicide, plain and simple and it's happening now and will continue to happen until the development team does something to remedy it.

It's also not challenging when you're the one at the top of the EGO rating scale if there are a lot of lower EGO rating players there. It is mind numbingly boring. I went to a Volge Siege at the quarry and it was absolutely pathetic engaging the Volge there. I racked up over 80k there arriving late and did it while eating a sammich (no joke).

Conceptually this might have been interesting but in practice it leaves a lot to be desired no matter which side of the fence you're sitting on.

Bonehead
04-15-2014, 11:01 PM
Nicely stated as always Knute. Hit the nail on the head. Chat tonight was full of peeps saying things like "what happened" and "I don't like this at all".
I like a sammich form time to time too.

fletch
04-16-2014, 12:17 AM
And here is the problem...

As a new player, I haven't even gone out of sight of the New Freedom Crash Site and I get killed by every mob I run up against.

Sniper Ridge....I ran into Veteren Riflemen...5 shields....and there I was with my starter Assault Rifle and Starter Pistol and I died over and over and over and over and over and over (ad nauseum).

Not fun. Not the same game that I tried a week ago and then spent my $60 plus bucks on by purchasing the deluxe digital download and season pass. And now I feel that I've been ripped off bigtime by a company known for hammering it's customers. If the game had been like this when I first started I would have deleted it by the end of the first hour.

I play a game to have fun. If I want a challenge, I go to work and try to figure out how to do my job with 1/5 of the people that I need. I'm sick of challenges. I want to kill **** and pretend it's my boss every time. Now, my boss is kicking my butt.

I encountered a few problems at low level too, but if the mobs are ramped up I simply leave the mission area then return. Once I had to return 3 times before the mobs were back down to my level. I start every mission with a sniper rifle from long range. If my head shot drops the baddie I proceed, if it doesn't even scratch them then. I know some thing is wrong and get the hell out. It's not ideal but it stops you dying repeatedly.

Pandur
04-16-2014, 12:44 AM
This is for those players, new and old, who "hate" the changes that the Arktech Revolution DLC have unloaded upon our beloved Defiance. Let me start off by saying, I am not one of you. I've been here since launch and have always had a huge dislike for how easy the game felt. I like the new difficulty, AI tactics and enemy variety. The scaling is not without its issues, but it works well for the most part.

I think the biggest problem here, is that there was just a lack of preparation. MMO faithfuls probably knew what to expect and how to handle the changes, but for the ones who just played Defiance as an action-shooter, it's a big pill to swallow. Armor, reliance on damage-types, tiered enemies, scaling, etc.

In simplest terms, how you played and what you played with, may or may not be compatible with Defiance 1.5

So what's the challenge?

Start over. Approach this like a brand new, yet familiar game. Make some friends or bring along the ones you already have. Pick a day, get everyone together. Start over. Play together, build your loadouts together. This is how Defiance was meant to be played and really nothing up to this point has encouraged that playstyle in a meaningful way. Try this for a week or two. Tell me how it goes. I'll be doing the same, posting a recap every friday for the rest of this month and the first two weeks of May.

Happy Hunting.

One problem with this thinking, i enjoyed the game before, logged a few hundred hours in it.
I have no interest in relearning it, i'm also a MMO faithful.
And i hate to use this comparison, but this whole patch smells alot like the NGE.

To be fair trion lost my business at the point they introduced bit store only Epic Mod hoards, so in the end it doesn't change much.

StrikerF91
04-16-2014, 12:59 AM
Its realy fun getting in to a major arkbrake spawn die spawn die spawn die spawn. If you are lucky you might get to move a foot or two then die spawn die spawn. Its also dosent help when one shot kills the whole room. You realy want to have fun watch your radar for all the purple dots to spawn in then see them all instantly disppear over and over and over again. Realy fun... NOT

Hogman505
04-16-2014, 12:59 AM
I encountered a few problems at low level too, but if the mobs are ramped up I simply leave the mission area then return. Once I had to return 3 times before the mobs were back down to my level. I start every mission with a sniper rifle from long range. If my head shot drops the baddie I proceed, if it doesn't even scratch them then. I know some thing is wrong and get the hell out. It's not ideal but it stops you dying repeatedly.

So I log in after a wretched night at work and then spend the entire time "getting the hell out"....

Now that's a game worth waiting for.

drackiller
04-16-2014, 01:06 AM
The real problem is that the new shining knights of the forum are the 5k EGO, because they simply are not aware of the changes for the lower EGOS.

Now they really think that are better than the rest, but they are not, they are just OP compared to the rest of us.
They are having it easy compared to us, now they don`t complain because they feel they are in top of the montain. Good for them i say.

Tsort
04-16-2014, 01:42 AM
Nicely stated as always Knute. Hit the nail on the head. Chat tonight was full of peeps saying things like "what happened" and "I don't like this at all".
I like a sammich form time to time too.
Man, I was reading this, nodding along... and then your last sentence killed me. Non sequitur. I'm cracking up, my ribs hurt.

Atticus Batman
04-16-2014, 01:46 AM
The real problem is that the new shining knights of the forum are the 5k EGO, because they simply are not aware of the changes for the lower EGOS.

Now they really think that are better than the rest, but they are not, they are just OP compared to the rest of us.
They are having it easy compared to us, now they don`t complain because they feel they are in top of the montain. Good for them i say.

In a mountain? Like this?!
http://amazingezone.com/img/2011/July/house%20inside%20a%20mountain/House-Inside-A-Mountains-01.jpg
Sorry Drac, just had to. As for the game, it was more fun at times, and ridiculously hard at others tonight.

drackiller
04-16-2014, 01:51 AM
In a mountain? Like this?!
http://amazingezone.com/img/2011/July/house%20inside%20a%20mountain/House-Inside-A-Mountains-01.jpg
Sorry Drac, just had to. As for the game, it was more fun at times, and ridiculously hard at others tonight.

No prob m8, we need to laugh a little. And i did enjoyed for the better part of the night except when i went to a Volge siege.

I don`t even want to think how it will be now at the WM on the PS3, if it was almost impossible lately for all the reasons that we all know, then i don`t even want to enter one now.

Pandur
04-16-2014, 01:54 AM
No prob m8, we need to laugh a little. And i did enjoyed for the better part of the night except when i went to a Volge siege.

I don`t even want to think how it will be now at the WM on the PS3, if it was almost impossible lately for all the reasons that we all know, then i don`t even want to enter one now.

I was wondering, if you are say 5000 and manage to grab like 24 or so other Ego 100 players to go into the Warmaster, wouldn't it make him insanely easy ?

drackiller
04-16-2014, 02:01 AM
I was wondering, if you are say 5000 and manage to grab like 24 or so other Ego 100 players to go into the Warmaster, wouldn't it make him insanely easy ?

Good question, your guess is as good as mine. ;)
Need to try this, might be fun after all. LOL

Atticus Batman
04-16-2014, 02:06 AM
No prob m8, we need to laugh a little. And i did enjoyed for the better part of the night except when i went to a Volge siege.

I don`t even want to think how it will be now at the WM on the PS3, if it was almost impossible lately for all the reasons that we all know, then i don`t even want to enter one now.

Have no clue. I know my ego 4002 got owned in a minor Arkbreak though. I was temp buffed to around 4750, so i'd say a 5k or two were in there laughing at everyone getting owned. My guess would be that they were the ones sitting in the back corners of the upper ring, rarely firing.

KEV1N
04-16-2014, 02:41 AM
Yes trying to avoid getting spawn killed by bombers in a major arkfall is a challenge.

thejx4
04-16-2014, 07:43 AM
It was a challenge. Nothing more, nothing less. I did not invite you here to complain, either accept it or deny it. I started over yesterday, I'll be posting my thoughts as a "new" player on friday. Unlike the hundreds of other threads here, I'm trying to find a creative way to make the game better, instead of posting walls of text. Go out and experience the game in a way that you normally wouldn't because of your high EGO.


Garbage. It's going to take me several hours just to figure out the new mechanics. Nothing is explained.

That's why I said start over. It's a lot to take in all at once. You will have a better understanding if you are introduced to it in a natural progression. I'm enjoying myself, the scaling issues are still apparent, but I'm having fun. Grouping up and making new friends before every mission. Find the positive in all the negative.

Tsort
04-16-2014, 08:01 AM
That's why I said start over. It's a lot to take in all at once. You will have a better understanding if you are introduced to it in a natural progression.
I've done that twice, once on PTS, once on live. First off, as we said repeatedly, nothing is explained, good thing I was already well-versed on game mechanics and gameplay. Second of all, the "challenge" curve is way too steep.

Sniper's Ridge right after tutorial? A massacre most of the time. Doesn't matter if you're playing solo or buffed-up EGO with other people : the new armored mutants are way tougher than before. Solo : too many clips/shells/headshots to down ONE target. Boring at best if you're good enough not to die, and doesn't feel right, the rythm of the fight is off. Small group of players : you're buffed, you got help, it's going well... but there's way too many targets now. So still boring in the end. In both case, you waste 20mn+ completing the first main mission. Had this been my first experience, I probably would not have bought the game.

Bonehead
04-16-2014, 08:09 AM
It was a challenge. Nothing more, nothing less. I did not invite you here to complain, either accept it or deny it. I started over yesterday, I'll be posting my thoughts as a "new" player on friday. Unlike the hundreds of other threads here, I'm trying to find a creative way to make the game better, instead of posting walls of text. Go out and experience the game in a way that you normally wouldn't because of your high EGO.



That's why I said start over. It's a lot to take in all at once. You will have a better understanding if you are introduced to it in a natural progression. I'm enjoying myself, the scaling issues are still apparent, but I'm having fun. Grouping up and making new friends before every mission. Find the positive in all the negative.

Gotta give your attitude an A. I'll be reading your posts with interest Jx.
For the record I still love the game and play almost every day. I just find bullet sponges somewhat boring. Played a few hours last night and only had to extract once. Diablo station and happy pow farms to me were not as challenging as they were tedious.

thejx4
04-16-2014, 10:51 AM
Gotta give your attitude an A. I'll be reading your posts with interest Jx.
For the record I still love the game and play almost every day. I just find bullet sponges somewhat boring. Played a few hours last night and only had to extract once. Diablo station and happy pow farms to me were not as challenging as they were tedious.

Thanks. **** Hellbugs in this update though. Seriously. Diablo Station is off limits to me, lol.


I've done that twice, once on PTS, once on live. First off, as we said repeatedly, nothing is explained, good thing I was already well-versed on game mechanics and gameplay. Second of all, the "challenge" curve is way too steep.

Sniper's Ridge right after tutorial? A massacre most of the time. Doesn't matter if you're playing solo or buffed-up EGO with other people : the new armored mutants are way tougher than before. Solo : too many clips/shells/headshots to down ONE target. Boring at best if you're good enough not to die, and doesn't feel right, the rythm of the fight is off. Small group of players : you're buffed, you got help, it's going well... but there's way too many targets now. So still boring in the end. In both case, you waste 20mn+ completing the first main mission. Had this been my first experience, I probably would not have bought the game.

Cleared Sniper's Ridge in 6 minutes with 3 other players I met in the tutorial. To be fair I had a Firestorm from the launch EGO code thing. They were borderline bullet spongy, but I never completely ran out of ammo. No one went down or had to run. Same goes for the rest of the missions I played. It needs to be toned down a notch but it's broken.

Deunan
04-16-2014, 12:19 PM
Cleared Sniper's Ridge in 6 minutes with 3 other players I met in the tutorial. To be fair I had a Firestorm from the launch EGO code thing. They were borderline bullet spongy, but I never completely ran out of ammo. No one went down or had to run. Same goes for the rest of the missions I played. It needs to be toned down a notch but it's broken.I doubt that they were Hardened or Formidable Mutants so all you did was dodge a bullet. The location was a contract site last night so there were lots of high EGO rating players going in there and some leaving it unfinished so they could join a co-op team or attend a Siege or Major Arkbreak.

The only difference between the vanilla mutants there and the ones before the update is that they have 20% damage resistance. For a non-casual player they would be very easy to handle but would seem to have more health than they actually do since new characters wouldn't have bio-nano weapons to strip away the armor plates (basically that would make the equivalent to pre-patch mutants with a 25% health boost). Did the next wave spawn to a tier difficulty level such as the first tier, Experienced Mutants, because you there were several of you?

thejx4
04-16-2014, 01:58 PM
I doubt that they were Hardened or Formidable Mutants so all you did was dodge a bullet. The location was a contract site last night so there were lots of high EGO rating players going in there and some leaving it unfinished so they could join a co-op team or attend a Siege or Major Arkbreak.

The only difference between the vanilla mutants there and the ones before the update is that they have 20% damage resistance. For a non-casual player they would be very easy to handle but would seem to have more health than they actually do since new characters wouldn't have bio-nano weapons to strip away the armor plates (basically that would make the equivalent to pre-patch mutants with a 25% health boost). Did the next wave spawn to a tier difficulty level such as the first tier, Experienced Mutants, because you there were several of you?

I was playing last night. We all went up together, with two guys from another group. Threat Level was...5 or 6. I don't know what they scaled up too but they weren't even close to being "impossible". It was more of "too bullet spongy". They didn't do TOO much damage but they damn sure took a little too long to kill. But when I say it was an entirely different experience than Sniper's Ridge at launch, that's a good thing. Complete newbs, were using their EGO Powers in conjunction with mine and we just so happened to have all 4 split between us. I saw a lot of cloaking, flanking, etc.

I'll play it alone today and let you know how it goes. Like I said before, at a low EGO, without a bunch of high level players around, enemies just take too much to kill. The sweet spot is somewhere between TTK right now and at launch. Snipers definitely need a boost as well.

Deunan
04-16-2014, 04:02 PM
Okay, good to know. If there was a Threat Level then they scaled up and it was probably to Experienced Mutant level. I can't imagine that they would go higher than that if there were only 4 of you at around EGO 50ish since my character only spawned Exprienced Mutants while solong at 450ish. Then again maybe number of players is weighted more than total EGO rating (I doubt it though based on my experience at the Volge Siege at the Quarry last night).

Iceberg
04-16-2014, 04:03 PM
Okay, good to know. If there was a Threat Level then they scaled up and it was probably to Experienced Mutant level. I can't imagine that they would go higher than that if there were only 4 of you at around EGO 50ish since my character only spawned Exprienced Mutants while solong at 450ish. Then again maybe number of players is weighted more than total EGO rating (I doubt it though based on my experience at the Volge Siege at the Quarry last night).

Hot fix patch notes were updated, something about starter areas are going to be toned down to make it easier on new players.

Deunan
04-16-2014, 04:20 PM
Hot fix patch notes were updated, something about starter areas are going to be toned down to make it easier on new players.Yeah that's not the real issue. As thejx4 conveyed above, when it works as intended I don't think it devalues the experience for new players and arguably increases it. The real issue is when it doesn't work as intend. The game developers really didn't envision situations like the ones I saw last night where players that have high EGO ratings start a conflict sit but then leave it unfinished (or what I didn't actually see last night but also happens where the player is merely passing by as a location respawns). While it wasn't a perfect solution, I think turning off dynamic scaling at Conflict Sites was a good short term compromise that they should have kept when the update went live. It's not like you're going to have tons of players with high EGO rating complaining that they can get their faction tokens quickly and easily.

DSW
04-16-2014, 04:26 PM
Yeah that's not the real issue. As thejx4 conveyed above, when it works as intended I don't think it devalues the experience for new players and arguably increases it. The real issue is when it doesn't work as intend. The game developers really didn't envision situations like the ones I saw last night where players that have high EGO ratings start a conflict sit but then leave it unfinished (or what I didn't actually see last night but also happens where the player is merely passing by as a location respawns). While it wasn't a perfect solution, I think turning off dynamic scaling at Conflict Sites was a good short term compromise that they should have kept when the update went live. It's not like you're going to have tons of players with high EGO rating complaining that they can get their faction tokens quickly and easily.

as i just said in another thread, i think it's not LEAVING, at least not always - more likely it's instancing problem. we've got a call in Zone chat that newly started Diablo site was at TL10 and a guy was there alone with ego way below needed for such level. what was interesting is that i, Badukas and Frogmella (me @ 4991, others above 5000) were at that location in another instance, just killed monarch and thinking where to go next. seems like our TL10 affected entire area rather that this f'n instance of us.

Iceberg
04-16-2014, 04:28 PM
Yeah that's not the real issue. As thejx4 conveyed above, when it works as intended I don't think it devalues the experience for new players and arguably increases it. The real issue is when it doesn't work as intend. The game developers really didn't envision situations like the ones I saw last night where players that have high EGO ratings start a conflict sit but then leave it unfinished (or what I didn't actually see last night but also happens where the player is merely passing by as a location respawns). While it wasn't a perfect solution, I think turning off dynamic scaling at Conflict Sites was a good short term compromise that they should have kept when the update went live. It's not like you're going to have tons of players with high EGO rating complaining that they can get their faction tokens quickly and easily.

Tons of players, no, but there is always one or two out there who will complain just to complain ;)

SkinSkull
04-16-2014, 05:38 PM
[QUOTE=Deunan;1461792]There are some things that players will not be able to get used to because the new dynamic scaling system as a whole was poorly thought out, poorly designed and poorly implemented. They reactivated dynamic scaling at Conflict Sites between our last time on the test server and going live. The game is extremely broken for low EGO rating players. They will continue to die on missions, doing contracts and exploring the map simply because the developers decided to ignore our feedback during our time on the test server. Most of you who are saying it's not that bad are completely self absorbed playing your characters with higher EGO rating.


The scaling is a great idea but even with the temp buff I am being killed constantly. I think they could do regions of set difficulty and players will sort themselves into the proper challenge. Maybe events such as incursions could have rising difficulty for each subsequent encounter until the final wave defense.


I would like to know how games such as borderlands and dead island have patches in place that allow a balanced game for high and low level players along side each other. Maybe the scale and amount of players prevents them from something these other games managed to accomplish.

What kind of sammich?

SkinSkull
04-16-2014, 05:46 PM
I am not high ego (1420) and I don't hate the idea of the change. Players just have to go back to the earlier areas and pick up events and conflicts that challenge but don't punish them. I am back at blood bath and the combat is ok. Eventually you WILL be high ego (we are leveling up faster now) and will appreciate a higher level challenge.

That said, I have had problems with the temp boost NOT kicking in during level ten events. Yikes. If you thought you died fast with the buff, try hanging with the big dogs without any kind of temp augment.

Irteip Zeugirdor
04-16-2014, 07:08 PM
I posted this on another thread:


Although with the patch I was finally able to reach Ego 4000 ( I ran out of perk slots at 3959), and FINALLY got my first ever legendary shield ( Right at the end of a Dark Matter major Arkfall at 5:00 am server reset time). The experience overall was not very enjoyable. I don't mind tougher enemies.On the contrary I love the challenge. But there's a fine line between tough and strength in numbers. You just can't add tougher enemies and top of that double or triple the amount of those tougher enemies. There's gotta be some type of balance between those 2 levels of difficulty. I remember the same thing happened with Borderlands 2 when playing on Legendary Vault Hunter mode. A level 46-47 player fighting against a horde of level 54-55 enemies.

So that being said. My feedback to the devs is not to nerf the difficulty and/or scaling of the enemies we face. It's the amount of those new and more difficult enemies that has to be reduced. Last night playing on a Warmaster arkbreak was simply a painful experience. Outside the arkbreak Raiders and Volge combined = people lying on the ground like squashed flies. Inside the arkbreak it was even worse to the point it was laughable. The overwhelming amount of now so called ark enemies was so ridiculous, I was already laying on the floor with the press x to revive yourself message on my screen even before I shot my 1st bullet. The temporary ego buff( mine was to 4750) didn't have any type of boosting effect whatsoever. So strength in numbers...that's the one thing that has to be fixed.

Ohhh and btw... If you Trion peeps are doing these on purpose to "Trick"me (Pun totally Intended) into buying the new DLC. Sorry It's not gonna work.

Festival
04-16-2014, 07:55 PM
Three full 111-round magazines in a nice OJ Castithan Springer (upgraded to my current EGO level) to kill a freaking minion with at least 50% head shots at close range isn't "challenging," it's boring. Eyes glazing over, watching paint dry, slack-jawed boring. As in "not fun." You know, fun...the reason we play video games.

Being one-shot killed before you can even move ten times in a row by spawn-camping enemies in the top floor of a Major Arkbreak is even more un-fun and boring. Scrambling with a couple other people at Seascape Farms, dealing with the ridiculous number of enemies (at least 30, the weakest of which take multiple magazines to drop) by running them to the end of their pathing tether and picking off one or two as they turn and go back? Yep...industrial-strength boring (but damn if we didn't stick it out).

Don't get me wrong: I wanted more difficulty in this game, too. What I didn't want was a perfect textbook illustration on how not to do that. This patch is one of the least ready for live release I have ever seen (in over a decade of playing these games). This would be a passable in-house alpha build, maybe an early beta.

Nonfaith
04-16-2014, 09:35 PM
Most game companies don't take a game that has been out for a year and make huge sweeping changes to its core gameplay. Those kind of things tend to alienate players or generally just piss them off. It would be the equivalent of Activision changing CoD Ghosts to a 3rd person shooter. Challenge doesn't factor in to it. They changed too much.

acert assassin
04-16-2014, 10:33 PM
This is for those players, new and old, who "hate" the changes that the Arktech Revolution DLC have unloaded upon our beloved Defiance. Let me start off by saying, I am not one of you. I've been here since launch and have always had a huge dislike for how easy the game felt. I like the new difficulty, AI tactics and enemy variety. The scaling is not without its issues, but it works well for the most part.

I think the biggest problem here, is that there was just a lack of preparation. MMO faithfuls probably knew what to expect and how to handle the changes, but for the ones who just played Defiance as an action-shooter, it's a big pill to swallow. Armor, reliance on damage-types, tiered enemies, scaling, etc.

In simplest terms, how you played and what you played with, may or may not be compatible with Defiance 1.5

So what's the challenge?

Start over. Approach this like a brand new, yet familiar game. Make some friends or bring along the ones you already have. Pick a day, get everyone together. Start over. Play together, build your loadouts together. This is how Defiance was meant to be played and really nothing up to this point has encouraged that playstyle in a meaningful way. Try this for a week or two. Tell me how it goes. I'll be doing the same, posting a recap every friday for the rest of this month and the first two weeks of May.

Happy Hunting.
DUDE. we should make a clan for the Hardcore Defiance players. not these fricken Casuals. all they do is complain.

bossman111
04-17-2014, 12:38 AM
Hmm I think that they should rollback this DLC .

Don't get e wrong, I think the new items, perks, levels and difficulties has been the best thing to come out since the game launched last year and if you're not happy with it then go play some Dark Souls and learn to appreciate the new difficulty setting of this game LOL (Thats a joke, please don't go and break your pc playing DS).

What I am not happy with is the fact that:
- they removed the Ark Salvage for resetting weapon bonuses and added this new expensive thing call ark cores which are friggin hard to get. (10 per completion of Expert Co-op map) (50 required to upgrade you weapon by 100 levels >_> Takes about 1 -2 hours to complete a map, you guys can do math right? )

- The new weapon damage scaling system. Its ridiculous. I spent good long hours mastering my weaponry and devoting time to mastering them and now everyone can do it within a 24 hour period and not having to spend all the time that other players had to sacrifice in order to achieve that beautiful level 20 bonus. Also it makes it very hard for any new player to catch up as they have to keep grinding for hours in order to reach a decent enough level to match the new damage/shield rate of other players. It takes ALL the skill out of the game and replaces it with whoever has the higher levels wins.

This is going to give way to the "pay to win" philosophy so many games have today (TQ Games I'm looking at you >_<").
I just purchased a season pass for this game about 2 weeks ago...However had I known about this DLC I would never have done that and would have instead spent the money on doing something more fun like buying a pair of pants that are too small for me + some green paint and running around pretending I'm Hulk, cause that's always fun right ^_^?

But really this DLC isn't really a DLC if you think about it, more like a complete re-structuring of the game, removing its basic principles that the game started with, which were " that levels didn't really matter as all weapons did very similar damage and anyone could simply pick up the game and play without having to grind for hours to reach a certain level" so that you could get better weaponry and be able to fight against other higher level players.
There was also no need to purchase any bit coins in order to progress your weapons or anything like that, unlike now where they have made it ridiculously impossible to progress by making the acquisition of such materials insanely difficult to acquire for the average player.

Well now that I've gotten that outta my system, I will be un-installing this game and will make note to stay clear of all Trion games in the future as I have learnt from previous game companies (TQ Games I'm looking at you, you greedy ****s >_<""" ), that they tend to employ the same or similar tactics to bleed money from their hardworking customers across all their games.

drackiller
04-17-2014, 12:47 AM
DUDE. we should make a clan for the Hardcore Defiance players. not these fricken Casuals. all they do is complain.

DUDE, stop insulting people, you been doing that in several threads.

HenryR
04-17-2014, 02:07 AM
DUDE. we should make a clan for the Hardcore Defiance players. not these fricken Casuals. all they do is complain.

Hardcore players can have this game as it stands now. Not only does it suck to have to battle through a ton of different enemies, but the games requires a time commitment that I, as a casual gamer, cannot meet.
I like you paid for this game, have spent time in this game, paid for stuff in this game, enjoyed this game (until the patch). If you met my character in game when you were new and asked, I probably would have given you scrip/ojs in the game as well. With this new patch you aren't going to see me, I won't be helping newbs, adding firepower to help or won't be around to help with coops. Then you hardcore players (all 50) can enjoy the silence.

Tsort
04-17-2014, 02:32 AM
Then you hardcore players (all 50) can enjoy the silence.
Pretty much this.

PRARPIN
04-17-2014, 02:39 AM
Yes, newer players are pretty much boned in this game now. They need to fix/figure out how to make this game playable. They seem to have put everybody, 500 - 5k EGO, on the same level. Unfortunately, they've put us all on the 5k level. I'm no longer able to move without taking a bullet or two and going down. This broken game needs to be fixed. It was fine before the newest update.

thejx4
04-17-2014, 06:53 PM
Hardcore players can have this game as it stands now. Not only does it suck to have to battle through a ton of different enemies, but the games requires a time commitment that I, as a casual gamer, cannot meet.
I like you paid for this game, have spent time in this game, paid for stuff in this game, enjoyed this game (until the patch). If you met my character in game when you were new and asked, I probably would have given you scrip/ojs in the game as well. With this new patch you aren't going to see me, I won't be helping newbs, adding firepower to help or won't be around to help with coops. Then you hardcore players (all 50) can enjoy the silence.

You seem to think your absence will hurt the community as a whole. Get off your high horse. I play once, maybe twice a week. It's not THAT bad. The things that need to be fixed will be fixed. Maybe if everyone would stop crying and start giving constructive criticism, it'd get done a lot faster.

Bleuford
04-17-2014, 07:05 PM
Well said indeed thejx4. I'm glad someone else out there isn't crying because the game is "to hard" now. :cool:

Atticus Batman
04-17-2014, 07:23 PM
Well said indeed thejx4. I'm glad someone else out there isn't crying because the game is "to hard" now. :cool:

It's so hard my ego 4200, an ego 5200 and an ego 3200 would have carried an ego 1200 through an expert co-op, but 2 things happened. The ego 1200 dropped at the server will shutdown in 5 minutes warning, and then the server shutdown right before us remaining 3 took that last sliver of health away from Dekuso. If low ego stayed in as a continued distraction to the raiders, we would have succeeded in those last five minutes.

Cirran
04-17-2014, 07:23 PM
Difficulty is not the issue I find displeasing. I find fighting the Volge in arc falls and sieges to be a waste of time. They spawn camp and the massive numbers of them just spam instant kill AOE attacks. I like how tough mobs are to kill but the "buff" they give you when you are not one of the top tier folks in the area seems to be simply lacking. I love the new infected sieges, I have tons of fun during them. Again, I think it is because they dont spam instant kill AOE attacks.

Cirran

acert assassin
04-17-2014, 07:51 PM
Hardcore players can have this game as it stands now. Not only does it suck to have to battle through a ton of different enemies, but the games requires a time commitment that I, as a casual gamer, cannot meet.
I like you paid for this game, have spent time in this game, paid for stuff in this game, enjoyed this game (until the patch). If you met my character in game when you were new and asked, I probably would have given you scrip/ojs in the game as well. With this new patch you aren't going to see me, I won't be helping newbs, adding firepower to help or won't be around to help with coops. Then you hardcore players (all 50) can enjoy the silence.
i would be handing out ojs to new players if they were even close to their levels. ill hand out script to any new players who pulls up their big boy pants and does not complain. plus im not even close to 5k yet. but thanks for trying to guess. the only thing i see i a person complaining just for the sake of complaining.

Bonehead
04-17-2014, 07:55 PM
i would be handing out ojs to new players if they were even close to their levels. ill hand out script to any new players who pulls up their big boy pants and does not complain. plus im not even close to 5k yet. but thanks for trying to guess. the only thing i see i a person complaining just for the sake of complaining.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156063-Defiance-Arktech-Revolution-Difficulty-Balancing

Seems Trion disagrees with that opinion.

acert assassin
04-17-2014, 08:36 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156063-Defiance-Arktech-Revolution-Difficulty-Balancing

Seems Trion disagrees with that opinion.
yea i know. lets just see what they do next. will it really make a difference or not. people will still complain about it even if the change is for the better.