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View Full Version : Why must every DLC drive players away?



Critical Errors
04-17-2014, 04:12 AM
Whether it's how we earn key codes, how we use grenades, how weapons are generated, and now how we kill the enemies, it's changed every time we get a DLC. Why?
This trend of changing core game mechanics every couple months is driving players away. Is this Trion's goal? Do you not want people to play your game? Do you not realize the veteran players are the ones that throw money at the game? The bargain bin shoppers picking the game up for $3.00 at Walmart aren't looking to spend more money. Stop driving us away with your egotistical designs, and start listening to what the customer wants.

ClawingBear
04-17-2014, 04:28 AM
bordem will overcome us all now

stefb42
04-17-2014, 04:37 AM
Hopefully they'll consider a select difficulty option at character selection screen, then the hardcore players with time to waste can have their buffed up enemies, and the casual players with lifes/wifes/kids etc can enjoy the game the way they like it too, it would be interesting to see server populations on different difficulties, bet the current set up would be the less populated server or shard or whatever

Bonehead
04-17-2014, 05:38 AM
Whether it's how we earn key codes, how we use grenades, how weapons are generated, and now how we kill the enemies, it's changed every time we get a DLC. Why?
This trend of changing core game mechanics every couple months is driving players away. Is this Trion's goal? Do you not want people to play your game? Do you not realize the veteran players are the ones that throw money at the game? The bargain bin shoppers picking the game up for $3.00 at Walmart aren't looking to spend more money. Stop driving us away with your egotistical designs, and start listening to what the customer wants.

I guess it's the best they could do without writers, actors, artists, animators, programmers, and key grips.
They seemed to have to pull stuff from thin air so we ended up with mostly spread sheet patches instead of content.
On the bright side we get new free movies to watch here almost every day!

Coyote Clive
04-17-2014, 06:04 AM
Whether it's how we earn key codes, how we use grenades, how weapons are generated, and now how we kill the enemies, it's changed every time we get a DLC. Why?
This trend of changing core game mechanics every couple months is driving players away. Is this Trion's goal? Do you not want people to play your game? Do you not realize the veteran players are the ones that throw money at the game? The bargain bin shoppers picking the game up for $3.00 at Walmart aren't looking to spend more money. Stop driving us away with your egotistical designs, and start listening to what the customer wants.

I think some of it at least is to keep us all grinding away on the treadmill and ending up in the bit store. But like my friend Mr. Bonehead said they have to do it without writers, actors, artists, animators, programmers, and key grips. So number shuffles requiring you to pump up stuff to play with the stuff needed to pump it up conveniently for sale in the bit store is all they can really do. If they had any of the above working on this game we'd have new land masses, new vehicles, new enemies, and new voice acted (by the actors) scenes. Instead we get number shuffles, and minimum level skin changes on enemies.

That's what just drove me away from a game that I have played for the last year. And I am very sad about it.

Critical Errors
04-17-2014, 06:41 AM
I completely understand the need for artists, animators, and whatnot. What I don't get is how the company can claim to be a game development company, and not have the resources to develop a game. I'm not completely disappointed with arenas. They aren't the most fun DLC, but at least they are somewhat new. Even if they use the same maps/enemies. My issue is the core mechanics did not have to change every time DLC dropped.

Bonehead
04-17-2014, 06:43 AM
I completely understand the need for artists, animators, and whatnot. What I don't get is how the company can claim to be a game development company, and not have the resources to develop a game. I'm not completely disappointed with arenas. They aren't the most fun DLC, but at least they are somewhat new. Even if they use the same maps/enemies. My issue is the core mechanics did not have to change every time DLC dropped.

Totally got it C E and point well made.

Pandur
04-17-2014, 06:45 AM
I completely understand the need for artists, animators, and whatnot. What I don't get is how the company can claim to be a game development company, and not have the resources to develop a game.

To be fair trion was in severe financial trouble when defiance got released, it probably was a lay off the majority of the staff or fold kinda thing.

Overwatch
04-17-2014, 06:51 AM
Think of it this way. You create a one shot weapon to kill everything and place it in the RNG category. A few people acquire it and complain the game is to easy. You develop harder enemies so the game will challenge them. Now the game is to hard. Develop another one shot weapon. Do you see where this circle of fun in the sun longer more fulfilling chase is going.
You left the one shot one kill era a few DLC's back and have just entered the 1000 shot for one kill generation. Cartoon reality.

Critical Errors
04-17-2014, 07:15 AM
Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate some of the balances that have been put out. I even appreciate that I can go to a siege now and not have to wait around for all the detonators to explode before I can get some damage into an enemy. The biggest issue is that every change they make is this huge complicated mess that doesn't appeal to the community. All this game really needed was a few minor tweaks to the original system. Instead, we get completely new mechanics with a new set of bugs and problems. It is these "visions" of development that drives people away. I sincerely hope the next updates to this game are simple tweaks to balance this mess. We don't need any more "innovation".

ConcreteSnake
04-17-2014, 07:43 AM
I totally agree critical, I've been an on and off player since launch. I came back sometime late January or early February and have played every single day for at least 4 hours. The first night of dlc 5 I was actually having a good time re rolling guns and the expert co op I did was challenging but fun. Then yesterday happened and I no longer feel compelled to even turn my Xbox on. After spend close to 2 hours in the expert explosions 101 and repeatedly getting stomped by invisible invincible dueling hulkers I was done. Turn off the Xbox and suddenly don't care about playing Defiance. I feel sick to my stomach about these changes. I like a lot of what changed, but lets face it, I live at threat level 10. As a matter of fact so does the entire open world. I think there are more players around ego 5000 than Trion thought and everybody I talk to is at threat level 10. I'll do some daily contracts and be at threat level 5 and its fun, then I have a friend fast travel to me to find incursions or arkfalls and I'm instantly at TL10, even well after they leave my area. Griefed, its stupid, I'm about ready to remove all my friends and a game I once enjoyed socially id rather play alone because its easier. TL2 for 30 seconds, then BAM TL 10! The difficulty varies and changes so much and to waste that many bullets on every enemy is just a little ridiculous and kinda makes all guns and their rolls no longer important. I doubt I'll even log in today, the game is just a mess. One minute its fun, then for an hour its worse than dark souls (which I enjoy btw) unforgiving, unrelenting, and unplayable sometimes. They brought along more difficulty in the co op which is a nice way to have a challenge for those who want it (including myself) but sometimes its just a mess of throwing as many npcs with ridiculous amount of health, shields, and armor at you with overpowering force. There is no strategy, just run backwards and hope the 35 enemies that each require 1000 rounds of AR ammo die before you do. That's not fun. Being ego 5000+ means I must always deal with top tier enemies whether I want to or not. Its like the fun got Monica Lewinski-d right out of the game.

Littleweasel
04-17-2014, 08:36 AM
to quote Trion "It's working as intended"

it's like they want people to leave the game or something?

Chocolatelover67
04-17-2014, 08:44 AM
to quote Trion "It's working as intended"

it's like they want people to leave the game or something?

Well if that was true would they let those of us that like the game be able to hack it into single player or a patch?

Critical Errors
04-17-2014, 08:57 AM
I just found myself checking the map for the 10th time in 10min. wondering why I can't get the motivation to do anything. Probably because the threat level next to my name is always at 6 today even when I've been standing at IDR sorting my inventory. I know as soon as I get near another player it'll bump up to 10, and then it's gonna take an hour to finish anything I start. Such a bore of a DLC!

bossman111
04-17-2014, 11:04 AM
Hmm I think that they should rollback this DLC .
The new items, perks, levels and difficulties has been the best thing to come out since the game launched last year and if you're not happy with it then go play some Dark Souls and learn to appreciate the new difficulty setting of this game LOL (Thats a joke, please don't go and break your pc playing DS).

What I am not happy with is the fact that:
- they removed the Ark Salvage for resetting weapon bonuses and added this new expensive thing call ark cores which are friggin hard to get. (10 per completion of Expert Co-op map) (50 required to upgrade you weapon by 100 levels >_> Takes about 1 -2 hours to complete a map, you guys can do math right? )
- The new weapon damage scaling system. Its ridiculous. I spent good long hours mastering my weaponry and devoting time to mastering them and now everyone can master there weaponry within a 24 hour period and not having to spend all the time that other players had to sacrifice to achieve that beautiful level 20 bonus. Also it makes it very hard for any new player to catch up as they have to keep grinding for hours in order to reach a decent enough level to match the new damage/shield rate of other players. It takes ALL the skill out of the game and replaces it with whoever has the higher levels wins.

This is going to give way to the "pay to win" philosophy so many games have today (TQ Games I'm looking at you >_<").
I just purchased a season pass for this game about 2 weeks ago...However had I known about this DLC I would never have done that and would have instead spent the money on doing something more fun like buying a pair of pants that are to small for me + some green paint and running around pretending I'm Hulk, cause that's always fun right ^_^?

But really this DLC isn't really a DLC if you think about it, more like a complete re-structuring of the game, removing its basic principles that the game started with, which were " that levels didn't really matter as all weapons did very similar damage and anyone could simply pick up the game and play without having to grind for hours to reach a certain level" so that you could get better weaponry and be able to fight against other higher level players.
There was also no need to purchase any bit coins in order to progress your weapons or anything like that unlike now where they have made it ridiculously impossible to progress by making the acquisition of such materials insanely difficult to acquire for the average player.

Well now that I've gotten that outta my system, I will be un-installing this game and will make note to stay clear of all Trion games in the future as I have learnt from previous game companies (TQ Games I'm looking at you greedy ****s >_<""" ), that they tend to employ the same or similar tactics to bleed money from their hardworking customers across all their games.

Critical Errors
04-17-2014, 11:34 AM
Words, words, more words...

Do you copy and paste this response to all the threads?

K Ron Spliffs
04-17-2014, 11:51 AM
"We made a game, and we do not like it. Lets find a way to make the players hate it so much, they are forced to stop playing. Then, when there is less then x% of our player base playing Defiance, we can turn them off."

BJWyler
04-17-2014, 12:06 PM
On the bright side we get new free movies to watch here almost every day!

Wait, the links actually took you to the movies? All that ever happened to me when I clicked them was my laptop telling me that the FBI found child **** on my computer. So I had to shut it off fast, then hid it in the box under my bed with a rock on top so it couldn't get out.

CM Kiwibird
04-17-2014, 12:13 PM
Wait, the links actually took you to the movies?

Don't click on those. They're bad news, report them immediately so that I (or someone else!) can come at them like a spider monkey.

Bonehead
04-17-2014, 12:18 PM
Don't click on those. They're bad news, report them immediately so that I (or someone else!) can come at them like a spider monkey.

Okay now I want a drawing of a spider monkey.
But not if you don't have the time.

CM Kiwibird
04-17-2014, 12:26 PM
Okay now I want a drawing of a spider monkey.
But not if you don't have the time.

It's now on my list of things to do!

BJWyler
04-17-2014, 12:26 PM
Okay now I want a drawing of a spider monkey.
But not if you don't have the time.

Yeah, me too! Except they'll have to snail mail it to me. My laptop is still in the box. It's just staring at me, biding its time ... I can feel it.

Bonehead
04-17-2014, 12:29 PM
Kiwi You da best! you da youdabest!

Eltruism
04-17-2014, 12:44 PM
perhaps the pockets have shares in both ESO and Defiance and they made Defiance suck just to pool both markets into ESO...making all of us gulible fools in the process?

i can see ears comin out the walls...

Clarity Page
04-17-2014, 12:49 PM
I like the idea of DLC 5 but the enemy's are way too buffed
and arkforge needs to be much easier to collect it should drop like salvage but in lessor quantity's,
or replace arkforge costs with salvage

One idea I have is to offer lockboxes that cost keys that contain some arkforge and some cores,
if they did that and made the mobs less bullet sponge-y then i think i could get to like "DLC" update 5

CM Kiwibird
04-17-2014, 12:53 PM
I like the idea of DLC 5 but the enemy's are way too buffed


We're working to address these issues. Scapes just posted about it, actually. (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156063-Defiance-Arktech-Revolution-Difficulty-Balancing&p=1464025&viewfull=1#post1464025)

Bonehead
04-17-2014, 01:12 PM
I've been playing between hitting the forum and I can say that I am seeing more stim drops and having a much better time today than yesterday difficulty wise. Did a few story missions and contracts and it seems much improved.
Definitely.

Grandpa Ace
04-17-2014, 01:48 PM
Sorry to say, but I've been playing for a year too, I have the Season Pass, and I do my best; but this DLC has me really ticked off. I'm a disabled Vietnam Vet...I play as therapy for my hands. I have major Carpel Tunnel and Nerve damage in both thumbs from 20 years of firefighting; not looking for sympathy, just stating fact. It's taken me this long to get to 4200 ego, and I'll keep trying, however, this is ridiculous, this DLC has gone way overboard when it comes to enemy strength. As I stated in another blog..it took 4 of us, in truth, little over a whole hour to beat the Motherlode on expert, and for what, hardly any reward. We all went down more than once, the bad guys would spawn like a river with no dam...it was bologna!!
I was hoping for the new season and a new season pass, however, unless these bad guy damage levels get realistic, not overboard like they are now, I may not go on.
But maybe that is what TRION wants anyway, to get us all to leave so they can shut it down...so much for CUSTOMER SRVICE!!!!!!!!
Sorry,
GPA


I think some of it at least is to keep us all grinding away on the treadmill and ending up in the bit store. But like my friend Mr. Bonehead said they have to do it without writers, actors, artists, animators, programmers, and key grips. So number shuffles requiring you to pump up stuff to play with the stuff needed to pump it up conveniently for sale in the bit store is all they can really do. If they had any of the above working on this game we'd have new land masses, new vehicles, new enemies, and new voice acted (by the actors) scenes. Instead we get number shuffles, and minimum level skin changes on enemies.

That's what just drove me away from a game that I have played for the last year. And I am very sad about it.

CM Kiwibird
04-17-2014, 01:59 PM
this is ridiculous, this DLC has gone way overboard when it comes to enemy strength.

Hey there. We're actually not trying to drive you off, we are working on balancing the difficulty levels that you've been seeing with the Arktech Revolution. (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156063-Defiance-Arktech-Revolution-Difficulty-Balancing&p=1464025&viewfull=1#post1464025) Also, thank you for your service.



Since the launch of Arktech Revolution on Tuesday, the Development Team has been closely monitoring the game and forums for feedback so that we make appropriate adjustments to the Defiance's new difficulty levels and address gameplay-affecting issues.

We're also working on more changes in upcoming patches including a new player experience that scales in the player's favor and a generally easier open world experience. The team is constantly evaluating the difficulty of the game to get it to a good state. We'll be starting in-game alerts for players who aren't aware of the Arktech Revolution gameplay changes and introducing a known issues thread here on the forums that lists bugs we're aware of and working to fix.

Thanks for the rapid, direct feedback!

Coyote Clive
04-17-2014, 07:11 PM
Kiwi: Couldn't you have just increased the damage the bad guys do in relation to threat level instead of making it take 100 Wolfhound (5000EGO) pistol shots to the head to take down an enemy? It's really denying most of us the satisfaction of feeling like the bad-arse arkhunters that we should be.

Why did the base numbers like weapon damage and shield strength that we have come to understand have to be changed? It was like you guys nerfed all my guns so I would need to buy arkforge in the bit store to make them good again. Kiwi: you guys weren't having any problem getting me into the bit store before. I considered it my duty to go in there and spend some cash to support the game.

Any way there I was at the pinnacle 5K EGO with a massive (bit store bought) inventory. Ready and waiting for you guys to open the gate for the climb to 6K and I end up feeling like I got knocked down instead of freed to keep climbing.

acert assassin
04-17-2014, 08:03 PM
Whether it's how we earn key codes, how we use grenades, how weapons are generated, and now how we kill the enemies, it's changed every time we get a DLC. Why?
This trend of changing core game mechanics every couple months is driving players away. Is this Trion's goal? Do you not want people to play your game? Do you not realize the veteran players are the ones that throw money at the game? The bargain bin shoppers picking the game up for $3.00 at Walmart aren't looking to spend more money. Stop driving us away with your egotistical designs, and start listening to what the customer wants.
hint it does not. it just makes the people who don't like it mad. the true players will stay.

Animal85
04-17-2014, 08:30 PM
me to stoped playing it cant doo dailies now thats imposible my ego is 4450 but still cant kill no ****
they just want all players to leawe so they can shut down servers and fire they last dev what they got

acert assassin
04-17-2014, 09:19 PM
me to stoped playing it cant doo dailies now thats imposible my ego is 4450 but still cant kill no ****
they just want all players to leawe so they can shut down servers and fire they last dev what they got

is this just rage? i really don't get the problem here. besides the update.

drackiller
04-18-2014, 02:30 AM
hint it does not. it just makes the people who don't like it mad. the true players will stay.

Are you one of those !?

Critical Errors
04-18-2014, 03:45 AM
Are you one of those !?

There's always going to be players that support the game blindly, and believe the design team does no wrong. Don't knock him for having misplaced faith. Sometimes it's hard to see the light when a person lives under a bridge.....

Bonehead
04-18-2014, 05:15 AM
There's always going to be players that support the game blindly, and believe the design team does no wrong. Don't knock him for having misplaced faith. Sometimes it's hard to see the light when a person lives under a bridge.....

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/i-see-what-you-did-there-ceiling-cat-27940-1250313420-23_zps54b73b34.jpg

Chocolatelover67
04-18-2014, 06:14 AM
All this complaining about the new sytem. Oh my. I saw someone fighting alone thought I could help then get yelled at in the chat window for butting in..... Eeeek

I don't know what's happend since the patch with people on here but I thought it was kind of social to jump into a fight if someone is doing it alone.

drackiller
04-18-2014, 06:17 AM
All this complaining about the new sytem. Oh my. I saw someone fighting alone thought I could help then get yelled at in the chat window for butting in..... Eeeek

I don't know what's happend since the patch with people on here but I thought it was kind of social to jump into a fight if someone is doing it alone.

You should come to the PS3 mate, no one yells at you. The chat doesn`t work :)

Chocolatelover67
04-18-2014, 06:21 AM
You should come to the PS3 mate, no one yells at you. The chat doesn`t work :)

If I had a ps3 I would........ But not really a console fan. I'm bad on keyboard and mouse controllers are worse..... Look at my youtubes ......

drackiller
04-18-2014, 06:23 AM
If I had a ps3 I would........ But not really a console fan. I'm bad on keyboard and mouse controllers are worse..... Look at my youtubes ......

I already watched the first one, got more !?

oasis387
04-18-2014, 06:26 AM
Whether it's how we earn key codes, how we use grenades, how weapons are generated, and now how we kill the enemies, it's changed every time we get a DLC. Why?
This trend of changing core game mechanics every couple months is driving players away. Is this Trion's goal? Do you not want people to play your game? Do you not realize the veteran players are the ones that throw money at the game? The bargain bin shoppers picking the game up for $3.00 at Walmart aren't looking to spend more money. Stop driving us away with your egotistical designs, and start listening to what the customer wants.


because this is a good instance that represents how trion treats us for awards...

http://9gag.com.edgesuite.net/photo/ab5b2DL_700b_v1.jpg

Chocolatelover67
04-18-2014, 06:33 AM
I already watched the first one, got more !?

Well I'm not the most confident speaker so if you survived that here you go

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzG6EqvcuuEhijAhfhvvVg/videos

My videos all 3 of them

drackiller
04-18-2014, 06:51 AM
Well I'm not the most confident speaker so if you survived that here you go

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzG6EqvcuuEhijAhfhvvVg/videos

My videos all 3 of them

Going to watch them now, i always enjoy to see REAL people playing the game.

Forgot to mention one thing about your first video, you mentioned about the back noise and that can be solved with a good noise cancelling headset, doesn`t have to be particularly expensive.

drackiller
04-18-2014, 07:03 AM
Going to watch them now, i always enjoy to see REAL people playing the game.

Forgot to mention one thing about your first video, you mentioned about the back noise and that can be solved with a good noise cancelling headset, doesn`t have to be particularly expensive.
Im watching the 3dr video and if you don`t mind i have 2 or 3 sugestios to make.

1: don`t go to a siege with your keys maxed out, spend it first. Buy some lockboxes, that`s what they are meant for.
2: i think that you are using the weapons in a wrong fashion, the Thyphoon can be good but you need to cripple theyr armor plates first.
3: and because you`re not using the right weapons , you`re not getting good scores. Use BIO and the change to another kind of weapon.

I usually make around 30 to 50 k points at Diablo station, depending on the point of were i join the incursion.

But you seem to be a cool person. :)

oasis387
04-18-2014, 07:10 AM
^ good info

Knightmage
04-18-2014, 07:16 AM
Hasn't driven me away yet. I'm truly enjoying myself doing volge emergencies. There's nothing like emptying my clip at a Vicera and running like a headless chicken around the cars to keep from being flung repeatedly across the landscape from an arm swipe from the enemy who's a full car length away. LOL Anyway to adress something someone else said earlier in the thread, of the lack of writers. Trion could fix that quite easily by taking it to the player base, we have some truly eloquent forum posters, approaching them for submissions for story line ideas even content under a NDA would go a long way towards helping advance the game. Just a thought.

acert assassin
04-18-2014, 07:52 AM
There's always going to be players that support the game blindly, and believe the design team does no wrong. Don't knock him for having misplaced faith. Sometimes it's hard to see the light when a person lives under a bridge.....

was just trying to say it nicely.

Bonehead
04-18-2014, 07:58 AM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/aa_zpsb86d5c4f.jpg

acert assassin
04-18-2014, 08:07 AM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/aa_zpsb86d5c4f.jpg

now your just trolling me.
http://cf.chucklesnetwork.com/items/8/4/7/6/5/original/what-if-dark-souls-isnt-hard-but-weve-all-just-become-too-casual.jpg