PDA

View Full Version : Arkforge Discussion



Multigun
04-20-2014, 01:51 PM
Currently, there is a great divide among the community. On one half, there is the low EGO players. On the other, there are the high EGO players. The low EGO players say the game is too hard, while the others say the game is too easy. Trion says “we’ll fix it!” That about sums up the great argument that is currently raging through the forums. (Obviously it’s a lot more complicated than that, but this debate isn't why I am making this post.)

Although each side sees the difficulty change differently, there is one universally agreed upon change that nobody seems to like: Arkforge to upgrade weapons. A very brief history lesson if you will. Once you could find a low level orange weapon that you absolutely were in love with, and keep it forever and ever. With the latest change, that low level weapon is now useless, to put it nicely. If you were lucky enough to find an orange weapon sub 1000 EGO, imagine how much Arkforge it would take to get it to where it was at a rating of 5000 + EGO. Not only that, as a low level player, it is virtually impossible for the player to get Arkforge in the first place.

Then there are players who have kept countless amounts of weapons in their inventory because they like to try out different things. They paid for increase inventory space just for this purpose (sometimes a lot of inventory space). With the latest update, Trion made it so that all weapons in your inventory were at least 75% of your current EGO level. That's actually really not that helpful. Trion could have at least made it 100% of their current EGO level. Every player will likely have out leveled those weapons within a few weeks anyways and would still need Arkforge. In summary, there is no feasible way to upgrade all of those weapons in their inventory. It forces this type of player to choose a very small handful of weapons to play with.

Maybe the change was meant to make Defiance a more “traditional” MMO: where the objective is to get to max level and then go about the great chase to get weapons then. But let’s be honest, Defiance is simply not built for this kind of system. What made it special, in terms of weapons, was the ability to find a weapon early on, or later on, and use it for however long you deemed fit.

Which brings us to this. What exactly are the problems with the current Arkforge system? Well let’s list them. Note: List is subject to change as more things get added or removed.


Low level players are unable to get very much if any Arkforge for a long duration of time. Thus, any weapons they collect until a much later EGO rating are rendered useless long term as it would take too much time and Arkforge to level them up to 3000, 4000, or 5000 EGO.


It takes 50 Arkforge to level an orange weapon 100 EGO points. I haven’t looked at the other quality of weapons, but I assume it’s nothing pretty. Each Expert Co-op awards 10 Arkforge. Each Expert Co-op can take roughly an hour or more to complete. So in order to upgrade your orange weapon even once, you must exceed 5 hours or more of game time (assuming you have a quality group each attempt) in order to level your orange weapon a single time.


Likely the real reason for the Arkforge addition is to increase their wallet size via Micro Transaction. Let’s be real here for a second, the purpose of Trion’s existence is 2 very basic principles: to make fun games, and make money. They cannot continue Defiance if they aren't making some sort of profit. I’m sorry, that’s the way the world works. But, as a fellow player, $40.00 for 1000 Arkforge? Come on Trion, that’s just not fair. For $40.00, I would expect my entire inventory to be raised to my max EGO level.


There are too little ways to get Arkforge in game. Every once in a while you get rewards from a daily or weekly, maybe you get some in a Lockbox (very low percentage chance), and 10 from Expert Co-op’s.


(Ties in with number 2) Arkforge in its current design is meant for the hardcore of hardcore’s, not the casual player base. Even a casual player can get enough key codes for a tier 4 lockbox after a few hours of play during the week. Arkforge? To level their weapon once could take multiple weeks, if not a month or more. The reality is that casual players only get a few hours a day, or a week to play. Being able to enjoy the weapons that you find is not possible as they will become absolute the moment your EGO rises.


Remember the times you were excited to get that purple or orange weapon? Now that feeling of delight is quickly turned into dread, as you realize the amount of effort and time it will take to keep the weapon within your EGO level. That is not fun, that is a chore; a chore that can quickly get old.

Now how about we list things that could potentially make things better? Sure! Here are some ideas! Note: Each list item is just some ideas; they can be combined with each other, or not used at all as determined by the player base and Trion. List is subject to change as more things get added or removed.


Add another (separate and in addition to the current maximum bar) experience bar to all weapons. This bar will reset after it fills up the to max every time. Each time you “level” this bar, the weapon goes up 50 EGO points (or insert another number here). The length of time it takes to level a weapon each time will be very similar to the length of time it takes to “master” the weapon as it currently stands. The experience bar will stall or pause if within a certain amount of EGO units of the player, thus keeping it from out leveling the player.


Lower the amount of Arkforge required to upgrade your weapons, and/or increase the current rewards given out in the current system. Have Lockboxes Arkforge rewards be more consistent and in greater number depending on the tier of the Lockbox.


Lower the price in the Bit Store for Arkforge drastically.


Introduce a Bit Store purchase to level all weapons in your inventory to your current EGO level. Anybody who has purchased the DLC #5 prior or in the future gets one of these Bit Store inventory upgrader for free as they see fit.


Introduce more ways to get Arkforge and/or make current reward systems more obtainable. Give Arkforge at Arkfalls, regardless of ranking (obviously the higher your score the more you get of course). The same goes for Arkbreaker battles, Incursions, etc. Add Arkforge rewards to all daily’s and weekly’s, giving the option to break down purple or higher tier into Arkforge, etc.


Here is a starting list of some ways to obtain Arkforge in it's current system, as reported by the communiy

Tier 2 Lockboxes seem to be a good way to obtain Arkforge in large qualities. While there is a very low percentage chance to obtain Arkforge (as reported by Deunan, a roughly 6% chance PER Lockbox), you can obtain 20 or 50 Arkforge whenever you get a lucky roll per Lockbox. Though be forewarned, some players are much luckier then others when it comes to this system. Attempt this at your own discretion.


There are likely problems and complaints I am forgetting or not listing. In addition, there are probably lots of other great ideas I haven't list yet. Nor do I know or pretend to know everything there is in obtaining Arkforge. These are simply my observations after the DLC has been out for almost a week. So if you have any else that you would like to be added to the lists, I encourage you to list some suggestions yourselves and I will do my best to add them to the appropriate list.

Change Log 1:

Made changes to #5 on the "wrong" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Made changes to #1 on the "fix" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Made changes to #2 on the "fix" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Made changes to #5 on the "fix" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Added a #6 to the "wrong" list.
Added a beginning list on reported ways to get Arkforge.

Deunan
04-20-2014, 02:37 PM
You have to understand the business model to understand why, but it's not going to happen. Games like this one build there entire development strategy around the concept that they have to constantly build more incentives for players that spend large sums of cash on micro-transactions to continue to spend and spend more, and that's not you or most of the players in the game. The only way they can do that is by making certain things unattainable or near unattainable outside of spending relatively large amounts of real world currency on micro-transactions.

Darth_Nikon
04-20-2014, 04:42 PM
Yeah, those are good ideas, but I don't see the devs using them. More than likely they've been told by the suits to turn more of a profit on Defiance, or shut it down.

I calculated the costs of weapon upgrades in dollars (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlmU7IMlz-9bdFBRY2ZLWUlSVE9DWlQ4UFdlTHY2Q3c&usp=sharing), buying at base price and at volume discounts. Upgrading an orange weapon 2000-4000 (20 steps) is $50 at the most expensive or about $30.80 if you buy bits and Arkforge at the highest bulk discounts.

Hopeisdead
04-20-2014, 04:49 PM
1) non issue you either pass really good weapons to new players and get the new ones for yourself through the journey or you have serious case of OCD

2) lockboxes gives 20 or 50 arkforges here and there. Best way is probably buying tier 2s

3) Yes

4) viz 2)

Riz
04-20-2014, 05:26 PM
Near 4700 EGO now, and probably hitting 5000 before next weekend.

I bought myself a Big Boomer (5100), VBI SMG (Radiation, 5000) and a VBI SMG (Bio, 5000) ingame today for 200k Scrip. Yeah expensive, but Scrip serves no purpose anyways. And it's wayyyyyy less expensive then buying Arkforge at the store.

Now all i need is a FRC SAW and a Ground Pounder at level 5000/5100 and i'm a happy man. Because i know i can stop upgrading at 5100-5200 EGO. I simply wont complete the rest of my pursuits :)

PS3/EU btw, if you have a Ground Pounder or SAW at these levels, hit me up!

Critical Errors
04-20-2014, 05:42 PM
Another thing Arkforge does is keep the high ego guys rich, and the low ego poor. Thus, hurting the economy more.
That ego 2000 Saw? No thanks, I don't want to spend 1500 Arkforge to rank it to my 5000+ ego level.

XPac
04-20-2014, 09:19 PM
Another thing Arkforge does is keep the high ego guys rich, and the low ego poor. Thus, hurting the economy more.
That ego 2000 Saw? No thanks, I don't want to spend 1500 Arkforge to rank it to my 5000+ ego level.

In a way that just means that the low ego guys shouldn't have to worry about the economy. Just play the game to level up and use whatever weapons that you pick up, until you get high enough to the point where you're willing to grind for the weapons you really want. So in a way it sort of simplifies things until you get closer to end game in a way.

Blondin
04-21-2014, 04:09 AM
You have to understand the business model to understand why, but it's not going to happen. Games like this one build there entire development strategy around the concept that they have to constantly build more incentives for players that spend large sums of cash on micro-transactions to continue to spend and spend more, and that's not you or most of the players in the game. The only way they can do that is by making certain things unattainable or near unattainable outside of spending relatively large amounts of real world currency on micro-transactions.
That's a good analysis, and this is the reason why this game became shtako.

One could say it's lead designer fault, but tbh, I think the fault came from financial director who decided that they have to stop to make an original game, to became a beneficial game (except, lead designer proves in the past that he made the wrong choice...).

I can't blame Trion for that, they have to make money, just like when they fired 3/4 of the original team, it was financial choice.
Now, I blame myself to have bought that season pass and a few bits (on sale), I should have see that this company has no balls, I should have see that from an original idea, they will use my money to develop it to a typical game that is done to gain money not to bring fun, my bad...

Drakestein
04-21-2014, 04:37 AM
Introduce more ways to get Arkforge. Add them to Arkfalls, Arkbreaker battles, Incursions, all daily’s and weekly’s, giving the option to break down purple or higher tier into Arkforge, etc.


I know for a fact that you can get Arkforge if you get to the top 5 at any given major arkfall(not the WM one, haven't made to the top 5 in that one)/siege/emergency, but still the amount of arkforge that you get is ridiculous and with the new difficulty settings issue, it's way too hard to get to the top 5 anyway, specially for a newcomer 3 weeks player with a 2xxx EGO rating after 200+ hours ingame


You have to understand the business model to understand why, but it's not going to happen. Games like this one build there entire development strategy around the concept that they have to constantly build more incentives for players that spend large sums of cash on micro-transactions to continue to spend and spend more, and that's not you or most of the players in the game. The only way they can do that is by making certain things unattainable or near unattainable outside of spending relatively large amounts of real world currency on micro-transactions.

Haven't played LOL, but my nephew does and he told me that the micro-transactions there, are for mostly cosmetic stuff or XP boosters and to be honest, they are making a TON of money out of that game.

Critical Errors
04-21-2014, 04:48 AM
My Ego 4k toon didn't get any AF for DLC. I've only received a little over 250 of it for the past week even with playing for hours. Most if my shields are 500 ego below me now, and my weapons are 100 or more below me. I use faction purples on that toon, and I can't keep up with my ego at all. It's so frustrating!

drackiller
04-21-2014, 04:59 AM
Currently, there is a great divide among the community. On one half, there is the low EGO players. On the other, there are the high EGO players. The low EGO players say the game is too hard, while the others say the game is too easy. Trion says “we’ll fix it!” That about sums up the great argument that is currently raging through the forums. (Obviously it’s a lot more complicated than that, but this debate isn't why I am making this post.)

Although each side sees the difficulty change differently, there is one universally agreed upon change that nobody seems to like: Arkforge to upgrade weapons. A very brief history lesson if you will. Once you could find a low level orange weapon that you absolutely were in love with, and keep it forever and ever. With the latest change, that low level weapon is now useless, to put it nicely. If you were lucky enough to find an orange weapon sub 1000 EGO, imagine how much Arkforge it would take to get it to where it was at a rating of 5000 + EGO. Not only that, as a low level player, it is virtually impossible for the player to get Arkforge in the first place.

Then there are players who have kept countless amounts of weapons in their inventory because they like to try out different things. They paid for increase inventory space just for this purpose (sometimes a lot of inventory space). With the latest update, Trion made it so that all weapons in your inventory were at least 75% of your current EGO level. That's actually really not that helpful. Trion could have at least made it 100% of their current EGO level. Every player will likely have out leveled those weapons within a few weeks anyways and would still need Arkforge. In summary, there is no feasible way to upgrade all of those weapons in their inventory. It forces this type of player to choose a very small handful of weapons to play with.

Maybe the change was meant to make Defiance a more “traditional” MMO: where the objective is to get to max level and then go about the great chase to get weapons then. But let’s be honest, Defiance is simply not built for this kind of system. What made it special, in terms of weapons, was the ability to find a weapon early on, or later on, and use it for however long you deemed fit.

Which brings us to this. What exactly are the problems with the current Arkforge system? Well let’s list them. Note: List is subject to change as more things get added or removed.


Low level players are unable to get very much if any Arkforge for a long duration of time. Thus, any weapons they collect until a much later EGO rating are rendered useless long term as it would take too much time and Arkforge to level them up to 3000, 4000, or 5000 EGO.


It takes 50 Arkforge to level an orange weapon 100 EGO points. I haven’t looked at the other quality of weapons, but I assume it’s nothing pretty. Each Expert Co-op awards 10 Arkforge. Each Expert Co-op can take roughly an hour or more to complete. So in order to upgrade your orange weapon even once, you must exceed 5 hours or more of game time (assuming you have a quality group each attempt) in order to level your orange weapon a single time.


Likely the real reason for the Arkforge addition is to increase their wallet size via Micro Transaction. Let’s be real here for a second, the purpose of Trion’s existence is 2 very basic principles: to make fun games, and make money. They cannot continue Defiance if they aren't making some sort of profit. I’m sorry, that’s the way the world works. But, as a fellow player, $40.00 for 1000 Arkforge? Come on Trion, that’s just not fair. For $40.00, I would expect my entire inventory to be raised to my max EGO level.


There are too little ways to get Arkforge in game. Every once in a while you get rewards from a daily or weekly, maybe you get 1 or 2 in a Lockbox, and 10 from Expert Co-op’s.


(Ties in with number 2) Arkforge in its current design is meant for the hardcore of hardcore’s, not the casual player base. Even a casual player can get enough key codes for a tier 4 lockbox after a few hours of play during the week. Arkforge? To level their weapon once could take multiple weeks, if not a month or more.


Now how about we list things that could potentially make things better? Sure! Here are some ideas! Note: Each list item is just some ideas; they can be combined with each other, or not used at all as determined by the player base and Trion. List is subject to change as more things get added or removed.


Add another (separate and in addition to the current maximum bar) experience bar to all weapons. This bar will reset after it fills up the to max every time. Each time you “level” this bar, the weapon goes up 50 EGO points (or insert another number here). The length of time it takes to level a weapon each time will be very similar to the length of time it takes to “master” the weapon as it currently stands. The experience bar will stall or pause if within a certain amount of EGO units of the player, thus keeping it from out leveling the player.


Lower the amount of Arkforge required to upgrade your weapons, and/or increase the current rewards given out in the current system.


Lower the price in the Bit Store for Arkforge drastically.


Introduce a Bit Store purchase to level all weapons in your inventory to your current EGO level. Anybody who has purchased the DLC #5 prior or in the future gets one of these Bit Store inventory upgrader for free as they see fit.


Introduce more ways to get Arkforge. Add them to Arkfalls, Arkbreaker battles, Incursions, all daily’s and weekly’s, giving the option to break down purple or higher tier into Arkforge, etc.



There are likely problems and complaints I am forgetting or not listing. In addition, there are probably lots of other great ideas I haven't list yet. These are simply my observations after the DLC has been out for almost a week. So if you have any else that you would like to be added to the lists, please feel free to list them yourselves.

Man, congratulations, nice post. I totally relate to evrything you just said.

drackiller
04-21-2014, 05:02 AM
Near 4700 EGO now, and probably hitting 5000 before next weekend.

I bought myself a Big Boomer (5100), VBI SMG (Radiation, 5000) and a VBI SMG (Bio, 5000) ingame today for 200k Scrip. Yeah expensive, but Scrip serves no purpose anyways. And it's wayyyyyy less expensive then buying Arkforge at the store.

Now all i need is a FRC SAW and a Ground Pounder at level 5000/5100 and i'm a happy man. Because i know i can stop upgrading at 5100-5200 EGO. I simply wont complete the rest of my pursuits :)

PS3/EU btw, if you have a Ground Pounder or SAW at these levels, hit me up!

Riz, what is your game handle on the PS3 !? I`m not associating your nick here with an ingame nick.
No, i don`t have what you want :) just curious.

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 06:17 AM
Another thing Arkforge does is keep the high ego guys rich, and the low ego poor. Thus, hurting the economy more.
That ego 2000 Saw? No thanks, I don't want to spend 1500 Arkforge to rank it to my 5000+ ego level.

This is not true. Every player has the same opportunity to earn keys and go buy lock boxes and get ark forge. Over the weekend I was averaging 500-700 forge a day by spending keys in tier 2 lock boxes.

drackiller
04-21-2014, 07:58 AM
This is not true. Every player has the same opportunity to earn keys and go buy lock boxes and get ark forge. Over the weekend I was averaging 500-700 forge a day by spending keys in tier 2 lock boxes.

Tell me what are you taking so i can consume it too. You`re funny.

Drakestein
04-21-2014, 08:10 AM
Tell me what are you taking so i can consume it too. You`re funny.

party??!! where??

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 08:21 AM
Tell me what are you taking so i can consume it too. You`re funny.

I'm taking that drug called " playing the game and not *****ing on the forum"

Deunan
04-21-2014, 08:23 AM
This is not true. Every player has the same opportunity to earn keys and go buy lock boxes and get ark forge. Over the weekend I was averaging 500-700 forge a day by spending keys in tier 2 lock boxes.That's unlikely. The chance of getting either a 20 or 50 Arkforge drop from a lock box is less than 6% each. Unless you're both lucky and have been getting between 233 and 333 lock boxes day it's an extreme understatement to say it's doubtful that you're pulling that much Arkforge from lock boxes each day. Troll on, but if you troll this badly no one is going to treat anything you say seriously.

Drakestein
04-21-2014, 08:27 AM
That's unlikely. The chance of getting either a 20 or 50 Arkforge drop from a lock box is less than 6% each. Unless you're both lucky and have been getting between 233 and 333 lock boxes day it's an extreme understatement to say it's doubtful that you're pulling that much Arkforge from lock boxes each day. Troll on, but if you troll this badly no one is going to treat anything you say seriously.

This forum needs a "Like" button

Bonehead
04-21-2014, 08:33 AM
This forum needs a "Like" button

Pretty sure you just used it.

dramaQkarri
04-21-2014, 08:34 AM
That's unlikely. The chance of getting either a 20 or 50 Arkforge drop from a lock box is less than 6% each. Unless you're both lucky and have been getting between 233 and 333 lock boxes day it's an extreme understatement to say it's doubtful that you're pulling that much Arkforge from lock boxes each day. Troll on, but if you troll this badly no one is going to treat anything you say seriously.

*LIKE*

Yeah, gotta at least keep things within the realm of possible. Hmmmm it appears some of us actually DO know realistically what the state of the game is right now.

mr8liner
04-21-2014, 08:49 AM
Durning my play time on Sunday, I was able to get around 800 AF. Most of it came from lockboxes but some came from seiges and arkfalls.

I was playing last night with a ego 20 toon. I did 3 major DM arkfalls got 50k in the first one and 120+ in the other two. My ego went up to 159 after only playing for 30 minutes. I was getting 3-4 AF and I was coming in 21st place.

MMy best advice for the newplayers is to save all script and arksalvage. When they get to higher levels they would be able to buy alot of lockboxes and get a good amount of AF.

I'm on the ps2. I have a ton of ego 3927 weapons. I am selling them for 10k-50k each. In a few wekks I'll have more that are in the 4k range and i'll sell them for the same amount.

Back on topic.... Something the veterns can do to help out some of the new players is go into their claims and give a "noob" a damage spike and a heal stim. I think that would go a long way in helping them out. That was what i did with my little toon.

I do think it is a little hard when your a low ego. I was finding myself running out of ammo pretty fast. I also think it is a little to easy at a high ego 5k +. Hopefully when they get around to opening up the map those new areas could be for the higher ego players 4k+. which would releive some of the pain on the new guys.

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 08:55 AM
That's unlikely. The chance of getting either a 20 or 50 Arkforge drop from a lock box is less than 6% each. Unless you're both lucky and have been getting between 233 and 333 lock boxes day it's an extreme understatement to say it's doubtful that you're pulling that much Arkforge from lock boxes each day. Troll on, but if you troll this badly no one is going to treat anything you say seriously.
I do hit a lot of tier 2 boxes on a daily basis. Why would I troll anyone? I played this game for probably 15 hours each of the last 2 days. I'm EGO 5522. I know what I'm saying and have no intentions on misleading anyone here. All I do are arkfalls and incursions along with the occasional siege. I score consistently over 100k points. That's around 10-15 keys per event. All I hit are tier 2 lock boxes...have always been this way. I also use ark salvage to buy keycodes several times a day as well. There's times I will go 10 boxes in a row without getting forge and there's times I will get 50, 20 , 20 all in a row. If you guys don't believe me then I challenge a admin on here to pull up my log from just yesterday and post how much ark forge I acquired just yesterday. You also get up to 10 forge per event depending on how well you do. I bet I got at least 100-200 yesterday just from incursions and arkfalls. I don't mind you guys trying to prove me wrong and gang up on me but please, try to somewhat be constructive in your response. I'm not a child nor a troll. I simply play the game a lot and get irritated when I see posts from people that are completely wrong.

mr8liner
04-21-2014, 08:58 AM
That's unlikely. The chance of getting either a 20 or 50 Arkforge drop from a lock box is less than 6% each. Unless you're both lucky and have been getting between 233 and 333 lock boxes day it's an extreme understatement to say it's doubtful that you're pulling that much Arkforge from lock boxes each day. Troll on, but if you troll this badly no one is going to treat anything you say seriously.

Deunan.. I was buying 9 tier 2 lockboxes at a time and was getting between 40-110 each time. As long as you have alot of script and ark salvage you can get plenty of ark forge out of lockboxes.

How long that will last after Trion finds out who know's, but we all know they want us to spend our money and not get it in the game. I don't have the best of luck but I got aorund 800 arkforge from playing on Subday. 600 from lock boxes and the rest from just playing the game. At most I got 100 t2 boxes.

I knew other players have better luck and worse luck then I do, but it is VERY possible to get plenty of AF by just playing the game


for my previou post my psn is mr8liner.

Vonna
04-21-2014, 09:00 AM
Excellent post, OP. All of these points and suggestions resonate with me. I am one of those people who will buy bits and in-game purchases, but not for such little reward. If I could rank all of my weapons & shields up to my current ego rating for $40, I would definitely do so. But $40 to get one, maybe 2 weapons up to 5000+? No thanks, I'll keep my money in my pocket.

Also, who the hell is pulling in that much damn arkforge from lockboxes?! I spammed 28 of them on Friday and got ZERO, a big fat ZERO arkfoge. My clanmates were definitely of hearing me ***** every time they got one or two boxes and got some. Not that I'm still bitter. *grumble grumble*

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 09:04 AM
Deunan.. I was buying 9 tier 2 lockboxes at a time and was getting between 40-110 each time. As long as you have alot of script and ark salvage you can get plenty of ark forge out of lockboxes.

How long that will last after Trion finds out who know's, but we all know they want us to spend our money and not get it in the game. I don't have the best of luck but I got aorund 800 arkforge from playing on Subday. 600 from lock boxes and the rest from just playing the game. At most I got 100 t2 boxes.

I knew other players have better luck and worse luck then I do, but it is VERY possible to get plenty of AF by just playing the game


for my previou post my psn is mr8liner.

I pretty much see mr8liner on every events leaderboard in the top 5 of points acquired. He plays the game so I know for a fact what he is saying is absolutely true.

Bonehead
04-21-2014, 09:11 AM
I do hit a lot of tier 2 boxes on a daily basis. Why would I troll anyone? I played this game for probably 15 hours each of the last 2 days. I'm EGO 5522. I know what I'm saying and have no intentions on misleading anyone here. All I do are arkfalls and incursions along with the occasional siege. I score consistently over 100k points. That's around 10-15 keys per event. All I hit are tier 2 lock boxes...have always been this way. I also use ark salvage to buy keycodes several times a day as well. There's times I will go 10 boxes in a row without getting forge and there's times I will get 50, 20 , 20 all in a row. If you guys don't believe me then I challenge a admin on here to pull up my log from just yesterday and post how much ark forge I acquired just yesterday. You also get up to 10 forge per event depending on how well you do. I bet I got at least 100-200 yesterday just from incursions and arkfalls. I don't mind you guys trying to prove me wrong and gang up on me but please, try to somewhat be constructive in your response. I'm not a child nor a troll. I simply play the game a lot and get irritated when I see posts from people that are completely wrong.

30 hours in two days?
WOW!

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 09:17 AM
30 hours in two days?
WOW!

Yep...weekend.. My 2 days off.

Deunan
04-21-2014, 09:18 AM
I played this game for probably 15 hours each of the last 2 days.This speaks volumes about how narrow your perspective is. Assuming you take time to feed, shower and sleep you're saying you did literally nothing but play this game the entire weekend. No one that has a life outside of the game is going play the game that much per day, even on weekends.

I'm EGO 5522. I know what I'm saying and have no intentions on misleading anyone here.You're EGO rating has absolutely no bearing on whether you know what you're saying. You clearly have no understanding of what the game broadly offers the player base in terms of Arkforge rewards if you dismissively claim that you've been getting the amount of Arkforge you've been receiving and imply that it reflects what other players can rely upon to upgrade their weapons. It does not. The math is pretty simple and we're all familiar with how it plays out with the RNG engine. I pulled 19 tier 3 lock boxes yesterday and got 50 Arkforge for it. Regardless of whether you actually pulled the amount of Arkforge you claimed you did on those two days, it's not reflective of what the RNG is going to offer in terms of lock box yield for Arkforge on average for most of the players.

What lock boxes offer is by and large for the majority of the player base, fairly lean, and very unreliable in terms of consistency. That's further weighted by the fact that the majority of the player base doesn't spend 15 hours a day playing the game on the weekends and certainly not even remotely that much during work days or class days. You may think your personal experience of the game is reflective of the Arkforge yield from game content but it's not, which is why it adds no value to the discussion and only serves as misleading distraction.

Hopeisdead
04-21-2014, 09:20 AM
Denuan is great debater. His/Her logic seems flawless.

Deunan
04-21-2014, 09:21 AM
I knew other players have better luck and worse luck then I do, but it is VERY possible to get plenty of AF by just playing the gameCapitalizing the word VERY doesn't make it so. It's called confirmation bias. You have it, the statistics based on the number of items that share the Arkforge drop slot do not. They're not a reliable source for decent Arkforge yield, your personal experiences notwithstanding.

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 09:23 AM
Just now bought 4 tier 2 boxes at OP and got a 20 and 50 arkforge

Blondin
04-21-2014, 09:32 AM
I can't afford to play 30 hours in 2 days just to farm arkforge, that is plain stupid, I loved to play Defiance to have fun, not to farm a stupid currency that only exist to take my money.

Before this dlc nothing forces me to grind ad farm, I could, to have more weapons, but I couldn't and still have fun.
Now I'm forced to grind if I want to continue to play with those weapons I won before, what a shame... and it's not fun.

Hopeisdead
04-21-2014, 09:35 AM
I can't afford to play 30 hours in 2 days just to farm arkforge, that is plain stupid, I loved to play Defiance to have fun, not to farm a stupid currency that only exist to take my money.

Before this dlc nothing forces me to grind ad farm, I could, to have more weapons, but I couldn't and still have fun.
Now I'm forced to grind if I want to continue to play with those weapons I won before, what a shame... and it's not fun.

You dont have to, you can use an freshly dropped epic. However if you are going for an min/max attitude than you really don't have an ground to stand on.

Minmaxing require dedication. In the long term games. If you do not like long term games there is always moba(never played it)

Biggest problem now is : disappearing players as it ****es up the combat awareness as to were to move and what to shoot.

Bonehead
04-21-2014, 09:39 AM
Durning my play time on Sunday, I was able to get around 800 AF.

Just to be clear, that's 15 hours of game play, correct?

Blondin
04-21-2014, 09:48 AM
You dont have to, you can use an freshly dropped epic. However if you are going for an min/max attitude than you really don't have an ground to stand on.

Minmaxing require dedication. In the long term games. If you do not like long term games there is always moba(never played it)

Biggest problem now is : disappearing players as it ****es up the combat awareness as to were to move and what to shoot.
I don't want to use a freshly dropped crappy epic weapon, I want to use one of the weapons I won before, one that fit with my play style, one with the good rolls (you can find a blue weapon with better rolls than an orange, less but better), one with the good mastery roll, one that I put good mod in, one that I took months to find inside those (many) crappy rng boxes, that is already a long term search...

I don't even speak about that weapons that I found when I was low EGO, not that good, but old, I'm a bit nostalgic, now I can trash such weapons, it cost to much money to play with it again.

That's a slap in the face, they just say "oh you played for a year, you spend your money to buy season pass, now you can trash all this, this is just a new game...but thank you for your money now we can make a game you don't like but that will bring us more money".

mr8liner
04-21-2014, 09:55 AM
Just to be clear, that's 15 hours of game play, correct?

maybe 10-12 hours. I don't keep count though. but to be clear i got most of my AF in about an hour. That was from buying lock boxes.

save your script and ark salvage and you'll be able to get that much.. you need 2x more script then you do ark salvage.


I didn't even do what I wanted to do yesterday. I was planning on spending 1,000,000 ark salvage and 500,000 script on 125 t2 lock boxes, but I didn't have time because there was always a major arkfall or ken farms going on.

maybe this weekend. If I do i'll let you know how much AF I get from it

Bonehead
04-21-2014, 09:59 AM
Capitalizing the word VERY doesn't make it so. It's called confirmation bias. You have it, the statistics based on the number of items that share the Arkforge drop slot do not. They're not a reliable source for decent Arkforge yield, your personal experiences notwithstanding.

YES it DOES!

mr8liner
04-21-2014, 10:00 AM
Capitalizing the word VERY doesn't make it so. It's called confirmation bias. You have it, the statistics based on the number of items that share the Arkforge drop slot do not. They're not a reliable source for decent Arkforge yield, your personal experiences notwithstanding.

You can believe me or not. All I know is that I'm getting my guns leveled up to my current ego and not spending real money doing so. So you have fun spending your hard earned money on AF, and I'll keep getting all I need from lock boxes.

Just because you think you know everything, doesn't mean that you do. Most people who think they know it all, know nothing

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 10:29 AM
You can believe me or not. All I know is that I'm getting my guns leveled up to my current ego and not spending real money doing so. So you have fun spending your hard earned money on AF, and I'll keep getting all I need from lock boxes.

Just because you think you know everything, doesn't mean that you do. Most people who think they know it all, know nothing

Now you know my frustration with some of these people on here 8liner...... A bunch of know it alls that obviously don't know jack. This is their life bro... Trolling these forums everyday and every hour. These are not trions forums. These forums belong to these people that think anyone who comes in here with something positive to say gets blasted with the whole your a troll and the stupid meme's they post. It must be some kinda forum humor they know that we don't. I belong to many other forums and I have never seen behavior like some of these people show. It has brought out some sides of me that even got me a 24 hour ban on here. I've been on forums since 1995 and have never even received a citation. Good luck getting your knowledge out there for people to learn. This is what you get for explaining to someone how to get more ark forge , lord forbid you post something that may help them understand something a little more.

Drakestein
04-21-2014, 10:34 AM
You can believe me or not. All I know is that I'm getting my guns leveled up to my current ego and not spending real money doing so. So you have fun spending your hard earned money on AF, and I'll keep getting all I need from lock boxes.

Just because you think you know everything, doesn't mean that you do. Most people who think they know it all, know nothing

Ok, let's say that I do believe in fairies and start clapping. How much time did you spend to get that massive amount of scrip/ark salvage? I'm a 3 weeks old player with 200+ hours invested in game, my ego rating is about 22xx+, I barely made to the top 5 or 10 out of the events, which I think is good enough. But with that amount of in game time spend I barely made about 200k scrip/ark salvage. Tell me more how I can get 1kk in 30 hours with my ego rating and my OJ's being nerfed??

Deunan
04-21-2014, 10:55 AM
You can believe me or not.You've completely missed the point. Your personal experience doesn't speak to what the lock boxes are going to yield for most players anymore than the player that manages to pull 2-3 Legendaries from them every day for an entire week does. Saying petty things like " have fun spending your hard earned money on AF" only speaks poorly of your character.

I never said I knew everything. That's another mischaracterization that further speaks to your character and the weakness of your argument when ad hominems are all you have left to counter my observations. What I have is based on facts and not the limited experience of 2 players out of thousands for a period of a few days which isn't even remotely informative about the mechanics involved in Arkforge drops from lock boxes.

I did some minor adjustments because of a post on a spike on the Alpha Test Server forum that turns out is not in-game. The slot that drops Arkforge also has 6 different grenades, 5 different stims and 3 different spikes in the loot table. Add to this 50 and 20 bundles for Arkforge and you have a total possible of 16 different items to drop, so you have a 6.25% chance for a bundle of 50 to drop and a 6.25% chance of a bundle of 20 to drop or a total of 12.5% chance to get any Arkforge.

That doesn't mean that if you buy 10 lock boxes you're guaranteed to get one Arkforge drop or that if you buy 2 lock boxes you won't get any. The way RNG works in the game is that the outcome of events is based on the entire player population's collective odds which is why we read about huge disparities between what one player experiences from their lock box drops compared to another. One player's good fortune is going to be balanced out by another player's bad luck or a spread of player's not quite so bad luck.

In the long run that good fortune is not going to hold out for most players. On average, the more lock box drops they experience the more likely it is that it's going to balance out to an average yield of 875 Arkforge for every 200 lock boxes, or 1600 key codes if you're purchasing Tier 2 lock boxes. That's not a pace most players can maintain to keep upgrading their gear. Notwithstanding your snide remark telling them to have fun buying Arkforge at the bit store, they're not going to do that. They're simply going to have to suffer watching prized legendary weapons that took them months to obtain become devalued until they cap out on EGO rating and can catch up on upgrading them, which may take several months (assuming they stick around that long).

swat brigade
04-21-2014, 10:58 AM
Ok, let's say that I do believe in fairies and start clapping. How much time did you spend to get that massive amount of scrip/ark salvage? I'm a 3 weeks old player with 200+ hours invested in game, my ego rating is about 22xx+, I barely made to the top 5 or 10 out of the events, which I think is good enough. But with that amount of in game time spend I barely made about 200k scrip/ark salvage. Tell me more how I can get 1kk in 30 hours with my ego rating and my OJ's being nerfed??
Having 200k scrip is pretty good dude. I have probably at least a 1000 hours into the game and I'm sitting at 200k scrip. I buy keys a lot which isn't cheap but if you constantly sell junk to the vendor after events you will build it up pretty quick. I know it sucks and a lot of us lost a lot of OJs ( myself about 50 probably) . I just gave a random player from infamous about 10 3900 ego OJs for free just now. Just wanted to clean out some room in my inventory. Also getting in top 10 in events is very respectable. You should be getting some forge and keys from that.

Festival
04-21-2014, 11:00 AM
Is that 6+% drop rate for Arkforge from boxes certain? That is to say, are we sure that certain options from the list are not weighted more heavily than others?

I haven't kept track of exact results (nor would my sample set be large enough for statistical confidence), but I'm certain I'm getting a much better rate from Tier 2 lockboxes than that. I'd estimate that over the last couple days I've seen somewhere between 25% and 30% Arkforge drops from Tier 2s. Total number of purchases is probably somewhere north of 40, but not by a lot. Again, not enough to be confident I'm not just having a good run of luck with the RNG, but it at least suggests that the drop rate may have been bumped up.

Deunan
04-21-2014, 11:09 AM
Is that 6+% drop rate for Arkforge from boxes certain? That is to say, are we sure that certain options from the list are not weighted more heavily than others?

I haven't kept track of exact results (nor would my sample set be large enough for statistical confidence), but I'm certain I'm getting a much better rate from Tier 2 lockboxes than that. I'd estimate that over the last couple days I've seen somewhere between 25% and 30% Arkforge drops from Tier 2s. Total number of purchases is probably somewhere north of 40, but not by a lot. Again, not enough to be confident I'm not just having a good run of luck with the RNG, but it at least suggests that the drop rate may have been bumped up.While it's possible that they weighted the drop rate in the loot table for Arkforge, given everything that we know about the mentality of the game developers in engineering drop rates over the past year, it's extremely doubtful. With the exception of fixing coding mistakes where the drop rate was accidentally reduced to such a small percentage chance that as a practical matter they didn't exist in the game, the only time they have ever weighted drop rates in the loot tables over the entirety of the game's existence is to make desired items less likely to drop out of all the items in the loot table.

Multigun
04-21-2014, 11:23 AM
I just wanted to add in that the discussion between everybody has been most helpful. There's a lot that I wasn't even aware of, and have made changes to the lists and added new stuff to reflect everybody's feedback. A special thank you to Deunanfor giving evidence of the reported chances on getting Arkforge in Lockboxes. A warm thank you to everybody in the community for giving their insight and feeddback.

Changes made to original post:

Change Log 1:
Made changes to #5 on the "wrong" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Made changes to #1 on the "fix" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Made changes to #2 on the "fix" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Made changes to #5 on the "fix" list to reflect forum poster's feedback.
Added a #6 to the "wrong" list.
Added a beginning list on reported ways to get Arkforge.

Festival
04-21-2014, 11:26 AM
While it's possible that they weighted the drop rate in the loot table for Arkforge, given everything that we know about the mentality of the game developers in engineering drop rates over the past year, it's extremely doubtful. With the exception of fixing coding mistakes where the drop rate was accidentally reduced to such a small percentage chance that as a practical matter they didn't exist in the game, the only time they have ever weighted drop rates in the loot tables over the entirety of the game's existence is to make desired items less likely to drop out of all the items in the loot table.

That makes perfect sense, and I suspect you're quite correct. I just wanted to raise the possibility, given the results I've been having recently. I guess I'll just give thanks to the RNG gods and hope my good fortune continues! I'm by no means certain I'm going to keep playing, as I simply don't like the game nearly as much any more, but I'm trying to remain positive. =P

drackiller
04-22-2014, 04:20 AM
party??!! where??

I`m always partying, yesterday i made a party, i decided not to play Defiance, today i`m partying too.
Just taking the pulse of the forum and slowly fading away...