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View Full Version : A new take on armor plates.



Fancyfingers
04-24-2014, 08:24 PM
Shouldn't we the player at least have a fair shot at survival? I mean, an armor plate drops incoming damage by 10% each (or at least last time I checked that's what they did I may be wrong) I've seen visceras spawn with 9, and we only get 3!?!? So they take a 90% dmg reduction, while our best shot is 30%. C'mon at least give us the player a snow balls chance in hell, right now I feel more like a snow flake. Another idea is maybe that armor plates should drop like grenade and shield charges, I know we have a stim but I need my heal stim to save my life mid combat, I can't hot swap between the armor repair and health mid combat, at least make some armor plates drop to give us a chance at survival, please that's all I ask.

TLDR: Raise armor plate amount for players, make enemies drop armor plate charges, thanks.

Hopeisdead
04-24-2014, 08:34 PM
but enemies usually don't have an option to switch to bio weapons to shrug it off in second or throw an bio grenade, and compared to most players their AI is inferior. We have protection spikes that is 6 plates or ablate armor stims which is 6 plates.. pity ablate and protection spikes does not stack. And there are perks to give you 3 plates for 3s altho it does not stack either and not sure about following but it seems that those 3 plates are empty when your armour count is empty.

Ashlocke
04-24-2014, 09:37 PM
At this point I realize that I'm likely in the very small minority about how to utilize the new armor plate mechanics. Which is to say that I don't. I find it a tedious, wasteful, annoying, extra pointless mechanic as it currently exists.

I tried keeping up with the armor plates to gain their benefit for a few days until it just drove me crazy. I've since stopped bothering with it, I treat it like it simply doesn't exist and I have to be honest, since then it's been like a huge burden has been lifted off my shoulders.

I got so sick and tired of after every single fight having to go back and replenish all of my armor pips. I could literally walk down the road and hit each roadside group and needing a complete armor fix after every single group just became so annoying.

Sure, armor repair stim you say. Tried that too, and sure, all that does is delay things for a few minutes. Armor gets ripped to shreds, stim it back up, rinse and repeat as I blow through all of my stims and then what, back to square one, armor is gone and no more stims so it's back to running to the armor fix-it boxes again. Been there, did that, got the T-Shirt. No thanks.

Shields regenerate in terms of seconds, so "in my opinion" armor should regenerate in terms of minutes. If you need your shields back up faster there's a stim for that, and if you need your armor back up faster, there's also a stim for that.

Currently it doesn't matter that any other stim exists, if I'm going to be slaved to having the armor fix-it stim slotted, why bother. And yes, I could stick it in another loadout and explain to me why I should risk almost certain death fumbling with the loadout screen dance just to repair my armor that will get ripped away within 5 seconds anyway. Just a royal waste of time.

You might not believe me when I say that I'm not always negative, if you look at some of my posts you will see that I'm more of a realist, I say what's good and what's bad, and I always try to offer up some solutions.

Except now. I've reached the proverbial end of my rope at this point. I no longer care. My only reason for playing Defiance was to have fun. The game has become anything but fun these days. I'm not going to scream at the Devs "Yo fix your game!", mainly because "for me" what's wrong with the game isn't any one thing, nor even a small number of things, it's a whole lot of things, most of them are minor. But they all add up.

For days I've been contemplating how to go about making a post to constructively deal with the issues I have with Defiance but I've come to the conclusion of: What would be the point in making a huge list of annoyances? Each item in the list would get taken at face value and in and of itself be blown off as insignificant, and on down the list each item would get brushed off because "we got bigger problems". And you know what, that would be absolutely correct. There are big problems jutting out far beyond all of the small ones, but they are still there, still annoying.

Ever since the new DLC something comical happens, I complete some event and the score screen pops up while I'm still surrounded by a hoard of mobs, and before I can close the window in those few seconds of not having character control I die. It used to be that all the mobs would be dead before the score screen popped up, but now-a-days, not so much.

Yesterday I did the refinery and as I was slowly, painstakingly killing off those things that look like tubes sticking out of the ground that lob bombs at you, I forget their names, the end Monarch boss suddenly erupts from the ground?!? That never happened before until AFTER I cleared out those bomb lobbing worm tube things. Now not only am I stuck soloing the event with a stuck threat level 10, I have the God Mode Monarch on steroids chasing after me with more than half of those bomb lobbing worms chucking bombs at me.

And these are not "the bigger problems", but to me, on that day, in that hour, while I was trying to have some fun, they were my problems that stopped me from having fun.

These are just some of the many issues that I keep encountering, the list is huge, to the point that there is no point anymore to bother hoping for them to be addressed. Besides, a large portion of my list aren't even "problems" they are just the new way things work now, whether I like it or not.

So this has become a cathartic post, I feel better now, like opening up a steam valve, for those of you that understand what I mean, thank you, for those that don't, you are the lucky ones.

Storm58
04-25-2014, 05:27 AM
At this point I realize that I'm likely in the very small minority about how to utilize the new armor plate mechanics. Which is to say that I don't. I find it a tedious, wasteful, annoying, extra pointless mechanic as it currently exists.

I tried keeping up with the armor plates to gain their benefit for a few days until it just drove me crazy. I've since stopped bothering with it, I treat it like it simply doesn't exist and I have to be honest, since then it's been like a huge burden has been lifted off my shoulders.

I got so sick and tired of after every single fight having to go back and replenish all of my armor pips. I could literally walk down the road and hit each roadside group and needing a complete armor fix after every single group just became so annoying.

Sure, armor repair stim you say. Tried that too, and sure, all that does is delay things for a few minutes. Armor gets ripped to shreds, stim it back up, rinse and repeat as I blow through all of my stims and then what, back to square one, armor is gone and no more stims so it's back to running to the armor fix-it boxes again. Been there, did that, got the T-Shirt. No thanks.

Shields regenerate in terms of seconds, so "in my opinion" armor should regenerate in terms of minutes. If you need your shields back up faster there's a stim for that, and if you need your armor back up faster, there's also a stim for that.

Currently it doesn't matter that any other stim exists, if I'm going to be slaved to having the armor fix-it stim slotted, why bother. And yes, I could stick it in another loadout and explain to me why I should risk almost certain death fumbling with the loadout screen dance just to repair my armor that will get ripped away within 5 seconds anyway. Just a royal waste of time.

You might not believe me when I say that I'm not always negative, if you look at some of my posts you will see that I'm more of a realist, I say what's good and what's bad, and I always try to offer up some solutions.

Except now. I've reached the proverbial end of my rope at this point. I no longer care. My only reason for playing Defiance was to have fun. The game has become anything but fun these days. I'm not going to scream at the Devs "Yo fix your game!", mainly because "for me" what's wrong with the game isn't any one thing, nor even a small number of things, it's a whole lot of things, most of them are minor. But they all add up.

For days I've been contemplating how to go about making a post to constructively deal with the issues I have with Defiance but I've come to the conclusion of: What would be the point in making a huge list of annoyances? Each item in the list would get taken at face value and in and of itself be blown off as insignificant, and on down the list each item would get brushed off because "we got bigger problems". And you know what, that would be absolutely correct. There are big problems jutting out far beyond all of the small ones, but they are still there, still annoying.

Ever since the new DLC something comical happens, I complete some event and the score screen pops up while I'm still surrounded by a hoard of mobs, and before I can close the window in those few seconds of not having character control I die. It used to be that all the mobs would be dead before the score screen popped up, but now-a-days, not so much.

Yesterday I did the refinery and as I was slowly, painstakingly killing off those things that look like tubes sticking out of the ground that lob bombs at you, I forget their names, the end Monarch boss suddenly erupts from the ground?!? That never happened before until AFTER I cleared out those bomb lobbing worm tube things. Now not only am I stuck soloing the event with a stuck threat level 10, I have the God Mode Monarch on steroids chasing after me with more than half of those bomb lobbing worms chucking bombs at me.

And these are not "the bigger problems", but to me, on that day, in that hour, while I was trying to have some fun, they were my problems that stopped me from having fun.

These are just some of the many issues that I keep encountering, the list is huge, to the point that there is no point anymore to bother hoping for them to be addressed. Besides, a large portion of my list aren't even "problems" they are just the new way things work now, whether I like it or not.

So this has become a cathartic post, I feel better now, like opening up a steam valve, for those of you that understand what I mean, thank you, for those that don't, you are the lucky ones.

Interesting, we have roughly the same view on the concept of "armor." Allow me to post my view on the armor that I originally made for the Difficulty Balancing thread. Perhaps it may be better suited for this thread:


Take a look at Player Armor...

Another thing that really needs to be looked at is the armor for the players (enemies are another story).

While armor is great and cool and all, it makes a player severely handicapped. Most people I see running around have 2 armor spots. If I'm not mistaken, armor reduces all incoming damage by about 10% per armor. So people with 2 armor reduce 20% of all damage.

This is great while out fighting tough enemies and I'm sure, to a point, it helps play in to the difficulty that you (Defiance Team) have developed for the game. However, a HUGE sinking point is that once your armor is depleted, enemies basically do +20% (in my case) worth of damage to you.

Sure, you can run around with each loadout having "repair armor" stims, but then what's the point of having the other stims? Armor repair stations are few and far between and are non existent during instanced events, thus rendering the player to a constant +X% of damage, all the time.

Shields are great as they can regen, but armor? Not so much. The way armor is, should be used as just a buff... the way I see it implemented in the game though, suggests that it is a necessity (like shields and health) rather than a buff, yet there is no (hyperbole) way to refill your armor on the fly and when needed.

Please take a look at it. Not sure what to do to *fix* it (opinionated assumption that it is broken), but perhaps don't set the system up to rely on it. Or make repair stations anywhere there is an ammo station. Or take away active armor altogether: just use ablative armor for players and cut the armor of enemies down by X. Or, hell, even make it able to regen like shields, to an extent.

That is all, carry on. :)

Dunnomatic
04-25-2014, 10:41 AM
Great points about armor brought up here.

I think a relatively "easy" fix could be to just put armor boxes at every ammo box. It would go a long way in making encounters less effected by the scaling issues, resolve the stim dilemma, and remove the unnecessary need to have to travel to an outpost after most encounters just to replenish it.

As was brought up, we only get so many plates and they do get taken down by enemies pretty easily so this wouldnt really be excessively "exploited" in my opinion in a way that would drastically change the core difficulty.

Ashlocke
04-25-2014, 02:51 PM
If a fix-it box is next to an ammo box, why have two boxes at all? Just make the ONE box refill ammo AND armor and change the name to "supply crate" or whatever. Why must I refill ammo, then swivel 45 degrees and refill from yet another box. It's just so unnecessary.

Bonehead
04-25-2014, 05:39 PM
TLDR: Raise armor plate amount for players, make enemies drop armor plate charges, thanks.

I like that idea a lot.

MikoTan
04-25-2014, 05:56 PM
Wish I could say I enjoy the mechanic but I find it just one more thing to run back repair/refill/manage. Like it was stated before if the ammo box repaired the pips I'd be fine with it but I find armor repair stations pretty infrequently.

Dunnomatic
04-26-2014, 08:21 AM
I really like the idea of it just being one box and doing both and the idea about charges dropping to repair armor on the fly. Even doing both would be great. Make drops fairly uncommon compared to the other charges maybe or something so the repair armor stim would still have value and if they're worried about making the threat of running out non existent. That combined with making ammo crates replenish them also would go a long way in improving the armor system.

ninte1
04-26-2014, 08:44 AM
Why did they change our shields at all; for example the Regenerator shieldS is TOTALLY worthless because of the changes. All of our shields die within 2 hits, so the plate system for us sucks; 3 plates REALLY!!! The enemies plates 5 and above, our weapons were barely bruising enemies (skitterlings c'mon); it looks like they tweaked certain things here in the last few days, but the unsteady gameplay is still a problem; you can be seconds into dark mater, warmaster, co-op etc. and you lose out possible legendaries, XP and others rewards because your servers can't handle everything; and WHY does this game lockup our gaming systems? Defiance is the ONLY game that does this and i'm a old school gamer remember Atari?

Dunnomatic
04-26-2014, 08:59 AM
Why did they change our shields at all; for example the Regenerator shieldS is TOTALLY worthless because of the changes. All of our shields die within 2 hits, so the plate system for us sucks; 3 plates REALLY!!! The enemies plates 5 and above, our weapons were barely bruising enemies (skitterlings c'mon); it looks like they tweaked certain things here in the last few days, but the unsteady gameplay is still a problem; you can be seconds into dark mater, warmaster, co-op etc. and you lose out possible legendaries, XP and others rewards because your servers can't handle everything; and WHY does this game lockup our gaming systems? Defiance is the ONLY game that does this and i'm a old school gamer remember Atari?

I still find the regen shield nice, since you do lose shields and armor so quickly it's nice to have that little bit of regen happening when you do find cover.

The armor on enemies after playing this almost every day since DLC 5 launched isn't as much the problem as scaling issues are with their total health and how much damage the scaled up players are doing to them. Which is something Kiwi confirmed in my Twitch chat last night is something they are working on very hard.

If you use Bio, usually need a few people using it at harder encounters, the armor melts pretty quickly to be honest. Even in situations where I'm scaled out of usefulness with regular damage I can still chip away nicely at armor at least with Bio.

Personally I've been using Radiation the most. It's great with the new perks from DLC5. You bypass armor and get a nice damage boost. It's pretty much makes having armor non existent on a vast majority of enemies from my experience.

Ashlocke
04-27-2014, 08:07 AM
Just to be thorough I should mention that I dislike having to open up the supply boxes *THREE* times. Yes, three times, if I'm out of ammo I have to open up the ammo box ONCE, which fills my ammo up to full, but then I automatically reload my gun because it was empty when I got there, then I have to open the ammo box a SECOND time to refill my ammo back up to full, then I have to open up the armor fix-it box for a grand total of three box openings.

Really... come on now...
It's just one of the items in the huge list of minor issues that I referred to above that just seem to add up.

I only mentioned it now because I figured if we're talking about fixing this particular issue, they might as well REALLY address all of it, not just some of it.

Riz
04-27-2014, 08:37 AM
Armor Plates... Another, in potention, great idea that got poorly executed. Reminds me of uhm... Grenades!

Enemies with Armor Plates? Sure, i can see why that was done. In general i think switching weapons and being 'forced' to be more creative while making a loadout, choosing perks and weapons is a great move. But i fail to see why not give us, the players, more weaponslots to equip weapons in. Yeah, i know we have 5 loadouts! But on PS3 i simply cant hit the pause-button and switch my loadouts, the game (and/or server) makes it impossible to do that quickly. By the time my loadout-screen has finally loaded im most likely back at a respawn-point or pretty close to a down. Trion, you know the game lags! Especially on the PS3. Please give us 4 weaponslots, and for all i care take out my 5th loadout to even it. Ingame i cant switch loadouts due to this lag all the time, i can switch my weapons though.

And making an Armor stims was also not quite handy. Who here uses the brawl-stim? Not too many i assume? Power stims and Heal stims WERE pretty usefull. But now my healthbar seems to be greatly increased compared to pre-DLP5, a Heal stim just isnt usefull anymore! It doesnt give me back enough health to justify it being equipped. Leaves us the Power Stim and the Armor Stims. Armor plates decrease the damage dealt to me by 10% for each plate, that makes such a huge difference that having up your plates at Threat Level 10 events is a MUST. This makes every other stim useless, we have multiple options but only 1 option is clearly the only right way to go.

And talking about Armor Plates on shields... When im in an expert coop and i see a player popping in with 2 plates i know instantly we have a potential problemchild on board that tends to go down a lot more then the players with 3 plates. In other words, every shield that's not a Legendary is an useless piece of crap on TL10. Sad, cause not everyone owns a good Legendary shield. And even if you find that perfect shield, it's useless again a week and 200 EGO later.

3rdpig
04-27-2014, 05:50 PM
Great post Ashlocke, I agree completely. Defiance used to be fun, now it's work, and grindy, boring work at that. I work 40-60 hours a week in the real world, I want to have fun when I play games, and pouring thousands of rounds into bullet sponges, balancing armor plates, stims, spikes, grenades, blah, blah blah, just isn't fun


and WHY does this game lockup our gaming systems? Defiance is the ONLY game that does this and i'm a old school gamer remember Atari?

I remember back further than Atari my friend, and I know of lots of games that lock up gaming consoles, the last one before Defiance I remember was ME3 MP. PS3 players were locking up constantly, mostly against the Collectors if I remember right, and some even had trouble with the Xbox. And in my case, some levels would freeze the game on my, at the time, high end gaming PC.

SirServed
04-27-2014, 09:12 PM
Ablative Armor Stim.

Tsort
04-28-2014, 12:17 AM
I agree with the issues pointed at so far.

I used to go on a trail and stop at pretty much every roadblocks or roadside emergencies. Even before Incursions. It is now pretty much impossible : we need to stop every 2 encounters and fast-travel to repair armor or refill on repair stims. Again, great immersion there, teleporting across the map all the time... Moreover, some emergencies get bumped up to TL10 even when you play solo, for no apparent reasons at all, for no useful rewards at all, it's only an ammo-wasting, armor-busting time-sink, and I won't even mention the death tax at that point.

Also, "lore-wise", armor is just great. I can understand how my shield is a future-tech EGO device that regenerate itself. I understand how a stim can boost my metabolism and nano-tehcnology can take care of some wounds. I can see why I need to stop in town to dump my busted armor plating and put new ones on, a couple of pieces of metal here and there tied under my clothes (though....... we don't see it). But a stim that repairs my armor? It makes as much sense as ammo spikes to me.

OldestGamer
04-28-2014, 07:42 AM
WHY does this game lockup our gaming systems? Defiance is the ONLY game that does this

Actually it's not the only game to lockup an X-box,Gears of War 3 also had that problem in the Horde mode. Boy i miss that game!

wartitan
04-28-2014, 08:17 AM
WHY does this game lockup our gaming systems? Defiance is the ONLY game that does this

Actually it's not the only game to lockup an X-box,Gears of War 3 also had that problem in the Horde mode. Boy i miss that game!

Boy, I never had GOW 3 lockup on me and I've played lots of horde mode on a 6 year old Xbox. Defiance is the ONLY game I've ever had hard-freeze my Xbox. Now granted, I've really only played a half dozen games semi-religiously, but with the hours I've got into gaming, I find it hard to believe that Defiance isn't the culprit for hard freezes.

TAG
04-28-2014, 08:25 AM
I remember Skyrim had a bunch of hard freezes.

"I used to be a VBI Assault fan until I took a heavy to the knee."

OldestGamer
04-28-2014, 08:45 AM
Boy, I never had GOW 3 lockup on me and I've played lots of horde mode on a 6 year old Xbox. Defiance is the ONLY game I've ever had hard-freeze my Xbox. Now granted, I've really only played a half dozen games semi-religiously, but with the hours I've got into gaming, I find it hard to believe that Defiance isn't the culprit for hard freezes.
I should have added the lockup ocurred while playing Insane Horde,especially on the Blood drive map,when you get around level 42 or higher!