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View Full Version : This game is now a fun challenge. Thank you Trion



Calranthe
04-27-2014, 02:40 AM
I left Defiance awhile back although I was one of its biggest defenders at the start, every couple of months I would start it up and see if anything changed, dlc 1-4 were okay but nothing that made me want to actually log in and play, I was only ego 1900 and just lost interest.

I re-installed when the big change came in and spent the first three days getting my *** kicked even by roadside events, so I realized that the problem wasn't the game it was me, I was still approaching Defiance as it was.

100 guns in my inventory so after doing some reading sold or salvaged my way down to 40 weapons, tested each weapon at arkfalls, incursions all the new stuff even replaying a few missions.

Went back to the ranch and started to wittle down my guns even more, really thinking, planning my loadouts, customizing my loadouts for different situations.

Lets face it before this patch you could get away with pretty much anything, okay you made a little effort if you were in to being top scorer but otherwise nearly all content was a walk over especially for someone never interested in PVP.

Road side events are no longer a blah but are doable and you see groups of 20 people kicking in for a road side event and its still challenging.

I can now solo all of what I could solo before I just have to think before I engage the enemy., my load outs will always need tweaking especially as I get more ego but solo missions hell even the annoying D guy isn't that hard if you use tactics.

One of the hardest things was to scrap pretty much all of my old weapons, to step outside the comfort zone, to actually think about the weapon and the nano effect more that its colour.

Thank you Trion, this game is now more in line with the challenges shown in the tv show.

lifeexpectancy
04-27-2014, 02:52 AM
Lol bullet sponges arent a challenge. The enemies are still easy to out maneuver and out play, it just takes 10x as long as it used to. FEAR Instant Action maps on insane mode or whatever the highest difficulty was. Trials Evolution getting 100% on the game. Mirror's Edge speed runs on levels and 3-starring the challenge maps. These things were difficult/challenging. Spending a lot longer out playing the same dumb AI just because one enemy can soak up 25-50% of your ammo rserves, or dying a lot in a boss fight because the enemies phase in and out of existence? This is not challenging. It's bollocks.

Calranthe
04-27-2014, 04:15 AM
Lol bullet sponges arent a challenge. The enemies are still easy to out maneuver and out play, it just takes 10x as long as it used to. FEAR Instant Action maps on insane mode or whatever the highest difficulty was. Trials Evolution getting 100% on the game. Mirror's Edge speed runs on levels and 3-starring the challenge maps. These things were difficult/challenging. Spending a lot longer out playing the same dumb AI just because one enemy can soak up 25-50% of your ammo rserves, or dying a lot in a boss fight because the enemies phase in and out of existence? This is not challenging. It's bollocks.

I sense a lot of bitterness in your post, I stand by my post this game is now a lot more fun and challenge, maybe it just is not your type of fun.

Mordresh
04-27-2014, 05:07 AM
Agreed, this game is fun and challenging. I can understand though that a sudden dramatic change can upset existing players, but as a new player post DLC5 I simply love the challenge this game has. Bullet sponges or not (prone for tweaking) I find this game more challenging and dynamic then most MMO's I've played. Some mobs really move well, I think that a lot of people are to furious about the change to see the good parts as well. But that's just my 2 cents, I really like what I see.

rydda
04-27-2014, 05:22 AM
Im a existing long time player and I have fun with the new way teaming up with people, and other players are starting to ask for help. As your ego gets higher then it gets easier. Its great low ego weapons are not high price any more for the noods.

Manstan
04-27-2014, 08:28 AM
Soloing isn't the issue. If anything soloing is even easier. As I've said soloing gives me a TL of 2, I can pretty well cake walk through with out a thought to weapon or load out. It's when it gets to 6; which is most of the time, I have to abandon what I am doing or lose my score dieing, load outs, perks and weapons make little difference.

Festival
04-27-2014, 08:35 AM
I side firmly with the "nope" camp: this bullet sponge nonsense hasn't made the game much more of a challenge.* It's not significantly more difficult to defeat enemies, it just takes several times longer. I'm not doing much of anything differently (I've always preferred using decent tactics instead of the blind rush...old FPS habits die hard). Well, not much of anything differently other than scrambling for ammo a lot...because it takes multiple magazines to drop a freakin' minion with crit shots to the freakin' face.

As has been pointed out, all that needed to be done was to make enemy NPC weapons a lot more dangerous to player characters. Presto! Now you make it essential for players to not be tactical morons...without the mind-numbing, immersion-killing grind that we have now.

* the only "challenge" I've been experiencing lately has been not falling asleep in the middle of another endlessly drawn-out combat. Seriously...I've literally nodded off mid fight.

Ironhide
04-27-2014, 08:47 AM
Agreed, this game is fun and challenging. I can understand though that a sudden dramatic change can upset existing players, but as a new player post DLC5 I simply love the challenge this game has. Bullet sponges or not (prone for tweaking) I find this game more challenging and dynamic then most MMO's I've played. Some mobs really move well, I think that a lot of people are to furious about the change to see the good parts as well. But that's just my 2 cents, I really like what I see.

This isn't really an mmo, its much like Red Dead Redemption. It wasn't called an MMO, but it played like one. I play DC Universe Online. There is an MMO and one that would offer a real challenge. Best of all its free on pc and ps3, ps4 to play.

Their enemies are not bullet sponges either and take skill to play against, plus higher content takes 4 people or more. A tank, to get enemies attention and keep it. Dps to burn the enemy down, A controller to power the teams super abilities. Finally a healer to keep the group alive. It has its flaws but THAT is a true MMO. Defiance is just a poormans Red Dead Redemption with space guns and cars.

If you want a real challenge and dynamics then you should really try DC Universe Online.

Ironhide
04-27-2014, 08:54 AM
I side firmly with the "nope" camp: this bullet sponge nonsense hasn't made the game much more of a challenge.* It's not significantly more difficult to defeat enemies, it just takes several times longer. I'm not doing much of anything differently (I've always preferred using decent tactics instead of the blind rush...old FPS habits die hard). Well, not much of anything differently other than scrambling for ammo a lot...because it takes multiple magazines to drop a freakin' minion with crit shots to the freakin' face.

As has been pointed out, all that needed to be done was to make enemy NPC weapons a lot more dangerous to player characters. Presto! Now you make it essential for players to not be tactical morons...without the mind-numbing, immersion-killing grind that we have now.

* the only "challenge" I've been experiencing lately has been not falling asleep in the middle of another endlessly drawn-out combat. Seriously...I've literally nodded off mid fight.


I agree it hasn't made it harder, I still pretty much play the way I always have. DC Universe pretty much had my tatics set. Its just a lot more tedious now. The only thing that is super tedious is Sieges. Especilly Volge Sieges, where you have 15 to 20 Ark Vicera all clumped together where you cant focus fire on any single one. Oh yeah those Vicera love to spawn camp, so when you extract from extracting, thats so much a challenge.....of frustration...and Fail!

Bonehead
04-27-2014, 10:14 AM
To the OP; right on I'm glad for you. I have never cared much for bullet sponges and Trion's own assessment is that the game is not in a good place right now.
From Scapes;
"We're also working on more changes in upcoming patches including a new player experience that scales in the player's favor and a generally easier open world experience. The team is constantly evaluating the difficulty of the game to get it to a good state."

These patches have yet to come.

I like some of the new changes and the bullet sponge patch is getting better albeit slowly. If you like it now, wait a while, it's gonna change some more.

N3gativeCr33p
04-27-2014, 11:57 AM
If you want a real challenge and dynamics then you should really try DC Universe Online.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r67/N3gativeCr33p/amen-brother_zps6e6ccfde.jpg

Yep, just renewed my Legendary 'script a few moments ago...

3rdpig
04-27-2014, 12:14 PM
I'm one of the people who were asking for some things in the game to be more challenging. But, IMO, bullet sponges aren't more challenging and they're sure as spit not more fun, they're grindy, time consuming and annoying.

And you know what else bullet sponges are? They're lore breaking. Now I'm not a lore freak, but it does play some importance in this game. Nim beat 18 armed soldiers singlehanded with just a sword. The Arkhunter, that's you and me, beat Nim singlehanded. Now we have to run for cover like little girls when there's more than 3 Raiders? Raiders are low level MINIONS and they can now take 3 mags in the face while barely flinching? No...just no.

And even if bullet sponges are fun and challenging, not all players in the game want that level of challenge every where they go. Not all players want to research guns, shields and enemies just to survive a drive down the road or a daily contract. Put the open world back where it was, leave the expert stuff for expert co-op missions (but for God's sakes, fix them!).

For a year this has been a great game for the casual social shooter person. Those people are now leaving the game. I've got two friends who refuse to play it at this point. Won't even log in. You may be fine with that, and for all I know, the people at Trion who designed this patch may be fine with it too, but I doubt those that add up the days profits are fine with losing a large chunk of the player base.

And if these two friends quit, so do I since they're about the only reason I still play. We'll find another game to play, it's not like there aren't other decent choices.

Alas poor Defiance, I knew him, Crixda.

r2nddan
04-27-2014, 12:18 PM
In b4 amen brother

Bonehead
04-27-2014, 01:47 PM
I'm one of the people who were asking for some things in the game to be more challenging. But, IMO, bullet sponges aren't more challenging and they're sure as spit not more fun, they're grindy, time consuming and annoying.

And you know what else bullet sponges are? They're lore breaking. Now I'm not a lore freak, but it does play some importance in this game. Nim beat 18 armed soldiers singlehanded with just a sword. The Arkhunter, that's you and me, beat Nim singlehanded. Now we have to run for cover like little girls when there's more than 3 Raiders? Raiders are low level MINIONS and they can now take 3 mags in the face while barely flinching? No...just no.

And even if bullet sponges are fun and challenging, not all players in the game want that level of challenge every where they go. Not all players want to research guns, shields and enemies just to survive a drive down the road or a daily contract. Put the open world back where it was, leave the expert stuff for expert co-op missions (but for God's sakes, fix them!).

For a year this has been a great game for the casual social shooter person. Those people are now leaving the game. I've got two friends who refuse to play it at this point. Won't even log in. You may be fine with that, and for all I know, the people at Trion who designed this patch may be fine with it too, but I doubt those that add up the days profits are fine with losing a large chunk of the player base.

And if these two friends quit, so do I since they're about the only reason I still play. We'll find another game to play, it's not like there aren't other decent choices.

Alas poor Defiance, I knew him, Crixda.

Well said Pig, well said.

Tsort
04-27-2014, 02:36 PM
And you know what else bullet sponges are? They're lore breaking. Now I'm not a lore freak, but it does play some importance in this game. Nim beat 18 armed soldiers singlehanded with just a sword. The Arkhunter, that's you and me, beat Nim singlehanded. Now we have to run for cover like little girls when there's more than 3 Raiders? Raiders are low level MINIONS and they can now take 3 mags in the face while barely flinching? No...just no.
This is why I've stopped playing.

Festival
04-27-2014, 03:23 PM
This is why I've stopped playing.

I'm done, too. I'll keep an eye on the forums to see if they figure out how to retain all their fancy new stuff that no one asked for (scaling, Arkforge,etc.) while getting rid of this un-fun bullet sponge rubbish. The last few times I logged in, I found myself thinking, "why the hell am I doing this? It's not in the least fun."

Yrkul
04-27-2014, 03:42 PM
I'm one of the people who were asking for some things in the game to be more challenging. But, IMO, bullet sponges aren't more challenging and they're sure as spit not more fun, they're grindy, time consuming and annoying.

And you know what else bullet sponges are? They're lore breaking. Now I'm not a lore freak, but it does play some importance in this game. Nim beat 18 armed soldiers singlehanded with just a sword. The Arkhunter, that's you and me, beat Nim singlehanded. Now we have to run for cover like little girls when there's more than 3 Raiders? Raiders are low level MINIONS and they can now take 3 mags in the face while barely flinching? No...just no.

And even if bullet sponges are fun and challenging, not all players in the game want that level of challenge every where they go. Not all players want to research guns, shields and enemies just to survive a drive down the road or a daily contract. Put the open world back where it was, leave the expert stuff for expert co-op missions (but for God's sakes, fix them!).

For a year this has been a great game for the casual social shooter person. Those people are now leaving the game. I've got two friends who refuse to play it at this point. Won't even log in. You may be fine with that, and for all I know, the people at Trion who designed this patch may be fine with it too, but I doubt those that add up the days profits are fine with losing a large chunk of the player base.

And if these two friends quit, so do I since they're about the only reason I still play. We'll find another game to play, it's not like there aren't other decent choices.

Alas poor Defiance, I knew him, Crixda.
Very well laid out.

Character progression based games usually have the feeling of accomplishment and empowerment as essential components. In Defiance these are very weak:


The storyline was not very compelling, and felt unfinished. Once done, the world felt very, very static. Nothing changed despite our efforts, and the conflict sites we visited during our quest to stop Nim carry on with their chunk of the story, over and over...


Character progression got neutered hard sometime before my first hiatus. Loadout slots and perk slots are all unlocked before getting past 1000, so there was no character-centric progression past that point. The main focus, then as now, is on gear acquisition, and this element lacks permanence due to the constant revision of related game mechanics.



The recent changes to the game tries to introduce an EGO based power progression. However, the way it was handled did more worse than good. The feeling of accomplishment and empowerment is lost, when your adversaries just scale with you. Sure, things start get easier past a certain point, but there isn't much empowerment in going from struggling with content, to struggling less. The scaling of players also undermines the feeling of progression, since my low level character is 4750 most of the time, and my mid level character is 4750 most of the time. The only difference is that the low level character struggles more, and needs to pay more arkfore to keep gear updated. There's no incentive to get out of one's way to get legendaries until you're close to EGO 5K, due to the progression tax. Remember another game that used mobscaling? Elder Scrolls IV. Remember one major feature the players were unhappy about? Yeah.

Defiance was launched in an unfinished state, and a lot of things needed to be changed/added. However, one year is way too late to make changes this big. Once the player base settles in, things need to be done with a scalpel and surgical thread, not a meatcleaver and packing cord.

Trion needs someone with knowledge of gaming psychology and behaviourism. If there's no budget for that, at least strap Trick down and have him go through Extra Credits (http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtraCreditz). All of it. James Portnow may be an idealist, but he's an authority in the games industry.

Atticus Batman
04-27-2014, 04:03 PM
Very well laid out.

Character progression based games usually have the feeling of accomplishment and empowerment as essential components. In Defiance these are very weak:


The storyline was not very compelling, and felt unfinished. Once done, the world felt very, very static. Nothing changed despite our efforts, and the conflict sites we visited during our quest to stop Nim carry on with their chunk of the story, over and over...


Character progression got neutered hard sometime before my first hiatus. Loadout slots and perk slots are all unlocked before getting past 1000, so there was no character-centric progression past that point. The main focus, then as now, is on gear acquisition, and this element lacks permanence due to the constant revision of related game mechanics.



The recent changes to the game tries to introduce an EGO based power progression. However, the way it was handled did more worse than good. The feeling of accomplishment and empowerment is lost, when your adversaries just scale with you. Sure, things start get easier past a certain point, but there isn't much empowerment in going from struggling with content, to struggling less. The scaling of players also undermines the feeling of progression, since my low level character is 4750 most of the time, and my mid level character is 4750 most of the time. The only difference is that the low level character struggles more, and needs to pay more arkfore to keep gear updated. There's no incentive to get out of one's way to get legendaries until you're close to EGO 5K, due to the progression tax. Remember another game that used mobscaling? Elder Scrolls IV. Remember one major feature the players were unhappy about? Yeah.

Defiance was launched in an unfinished state, and a lot of things needed to be changed/added. However, one year is way too late to make changes this big. Once the player base settles in, things need to be done with a scalpel and surgical thread, not a meatcleaver and packing cord.

Trion needs someone with knowledge of gaming psychology and behaviourism. If there's no budget for that, at least strap Trick down and have him go through Extra Credits (http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtraCreditz). All of it. James Portnow may be an idealist, but he's an authority in the games industry.

The last perk slot is unlocked at 1k. Thanks to Patch 1.024 which was was announced July 10, 2013 and went live July 11, 2013.

http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=19

Not sure about Character loadouts. Slot 5 used to unlock at 1500.
http://www.defiancedata.com/images/uploads/972.png

I am not sure if it still does though.

Hopeisdead
04-27-2014, 04:12 PM
Dont know much about challenge, but Defiance is certainly fun. Altho it was fun before 1.5 too so nothing changed at least for me.

As for challenge well Starcraft on pro level is probably challenge, but not for me cause i am terrible.

XPac
04-27-2014, 04:42 PM
I didn't like the new changes at first.

But I have to admit, after getting used to it a bit I think I'm actually cool with them.

I DID think Defiance was previously a bit too easy. Now it's more of a challenge. Some parts, like the Volge major ark falls, are still a bit too much of a challenge.

So even though I was fine with how the game was before, I'm okay with the direction they took. It think it still needs tweaking, but I don't need them to turn it back to the way it was either.

Ironhide
04-27-2014, 06:35 PM
I'm one of the people who were asking for some things in the game to be more challenging. But, IMO, bullet sponges aren't more challenging and they're sure as spit not more fun, they're grindy, time consuming and annoying.

And you know what else bullet sponges are? They're lore breaking. Now I'm not a lore freak, but it does play some importance in this game. Nim beat 18 armed soldiers singlehanded with just a sword. The Arkhunter, that's you and me, beat Nim singlehanded. Now we have to run for cover like little girls when there's more than 3 Raiders? Raiders are low level MINIONS and they can now take 3 mags in the face while barely flinching? No...just no.

And even if bullet sponges are fun and challenging, not all players in the game want that level of challenge every where they go. Not all players want to research guns, shields and enemies just to survive a drive down the road or a daily contract. Put the open world back where it was, leave the expert stuff for expert co-op missions (but for God's sakes, fix them!).

For a year this has been a great game for the casual social shooter person. Those people are now leaving the game. I've got two friends who refuse to play it at this point. Won't even log in. You may be fine with that, and for all I know, the people at Trion who designed this patch may be fine with it too, but I doubt those that add up the days profits are fine with losing a large chunk of the player base.

And if these two friends quit, so do I since they're about the only reason I still play. We'll find another game to play, it's not like there aren't other decent choices.

Alas poor Defiance, I knew him, Crixda.

Preach It 3rdpig!...... +20

Ironhide
04-27-2014, 06:38 PM
Very well laid out.

Character progression based games usually have the feeling of accomplishment and empowerment as essential components. In Defiance these are very weak:


The storyline was not very compelling, and felt unfinished. Once done, the world felt very, very static. Nothing changed despite our efforts, and the conflict sites we visited during our quest to stop Nim carry on with their chunk of the story, over and over...


Character progression got neutered hard sometime before my first hiatus. Loadout slots and perk slots are all unlocked before getting past 1000, so there was no character-centric progression past that point. The main focus, then as now, is on gear acquisition, and this element lacks permanence due to the constant revision of related game mechanics.



The recent changes to the game tries to introduce an EGO based power progression. However, the way it was handled did more worse than good. The feeling of accomplishment and empowerment is lost, when your adversaries just scale with you. Sure, things start get easier past a certain point, but there isn't much empowerment in going from struggling with content, to struggling less. The scaling of players also undermines the feeling of progression, since my low level character is 4750 most of the time, and my mid level character is 4750 most of the time. The only difference is that the low level character struggles more, and needs to pay more arkfore to keep gear updated. There's no incentive to get out of one's way to get legendaries until you're close to EGO 5K, due to the progression tax. Remember another game that used mobscaling? Elder Scrolls IV. Remember one major feature the players were unhappy about? Yeah.

Defiance was launched in an unfinished state, and a lot of things needed to be changed/added. However, one year is way too late to make changes this big. Once the player base settles in, things need to be done with a scalpel and surgical thread, not a meatcleaver and packing cord.

Trion needs someone with knowledge of gaming psychology and behaviourism. If there's no budget for that, at least strap Trick down and have him go through Extra Credits (http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtraCreditz). All of it. James Portnow may be an idealist, but he's an authority in the games industry.


And heres the Chior!.....Amen Brother!


In all seriousness ya'll have too much common sense, thats why Trion ignores the majority of us. We're all smarter than the average programer....Hey Boo Boo!

Yrkul
04-27-2014, 08:47 PM
In all seriousness ya'll have too much common sense, thats why Trion ignores the majority of us. We're all smarter than the average programer....Hey Boo Boo!
To be fair, I couldn't program my way out of a wet paper bag. I tried learning HTML once, but my files always renamed themselves to "Project 2501".
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/150/f/2011/078/d/1/tachikoma_by_metaru-d3c194u.png

Deunan
04-27-2014, 10:33 PM
The last perk slot is unlocked at 1k. Thanks to Patch 1.024 which was was announced July 10, 2013 and went live July 11, 2013.All 5 slots are unlocked at the beginning of the game now.

Zealous
04-27-2014, 11:30 PM
Increasing damage/shields/hps by ten (or whatever) is the dumbest form of "difficulty" in gaming and it makes me really sad to see people acting like it is in any way good. The way you play the game has not changed at all. You use no new tactics. Weapon/loadout changes will affect nothing. Enemies just take eleventybillion headshots to kill while they down you in 2 shots and spawn in ridiculous numbers.

How does that make the game "fun", exactly? This change was awful.

polarity
04-28-2014, 02:17 AM
I have a lot of fun solo at hellbug arkfalls, knee deep in targets, and having to work hard to avoid 3 warriors at once while trying to take down ever increasing numbers of archers.

Volge though are just stupid. The only challenge is in how much **** you're willing to put up with. At the roadside in front of Iron Demon, it's just not worth attempting solo. I'm level 988, get threat level 2, and to kill just one trooper would take all the ammo on both my weapons, if I could actually get a break from having to run from the whole huge pack of them to actually return fire, and if their shields and health didn't completely reset every time someone either drives past or fast travels there. Even when there are half a dozen people present, as soon as the event gets to the Ark Viscera, they take so damn long to kill that they'll have their shields and health reset multiple times before we can get one down.

That is not remotely fun. It's not a challenge, it's a god-awful grind, and is the quickest way to make me log out.


And to think, before 1.5 I was doing 3 mans at the Bath House, while still around 500 EGO, with way more Volge spawning. That was both challenging and fun.

I like that the AI seems smarter, and that the game is more challenging in places, but in others it drastically needs to scale down further.

Calranthe
04-28-2014, 03:18 AM
Sorry for not replying to my own thread for a day the simple reason is I was in game having fun, yes fun.

Before this change everything was so blah, killing a monarch in 5 seconds, destroying volg with a few well placed hits, dark matter were a joke and hell bugs well maybe we should rename them to soft and squidgy bugs.

Pre 1.5 you had to race to get a hit on an A class enemy before he exploded and road side events became so easy that people would shoot once and ride on into the sunset.

As for the enemies being bullet sponges I do not agree at all, with the right ego set, the right gun and the right nano for each situation things can still melt.

Remember I am still only Ego 2300 and I was never in to max power guns.

simple examples
Infected siege primary load out perks all based around overload and explosives, grenade launcher and swarm cannon damage spike and ammo stim huge amount of player anything but monarchs and elites dying so fast it is crazy fun, monarchs and elites take a little time usually switch to a slug shotgun and my tachmag pulser and yes I use a clip on that thing but what the hell.

Volg siege
Primary loadout sniper rifles cloak plus all the regular stuff, switching between nano's depending on situation, secondary battle rifle and slug shotgun
Again huge amount of players, a lot of fun.

Nice to see so many people switching loadouts and nano's during the fights depending on the enemy facing.

And a simple truth you may not like to hear, every player I have been to in defiance in the last week has been packed with players actually playing, from 20 people taking down a road side event to 40+ at a siege or ark. I see a hell of a lot of people in game having fun.

Sorry if you can't see it :(

Chump Norris
04-28-2014, 04:07 AM
Sorry for not replying to my own thread for a day the simple reason is I was in game having fun, yes fun.

Before this change everything was so blah, killing a monarch in 5 seconds, destroying volg with a few well placed hits, dark matter were a joke and hell bugs well maybe we should rename them to soft and squidgy bugs.

Pre 1.5 you had to race to get a hit on an A class enemy before he exploded and road side events became so easy that people would shoot once and ride on into the sunset.

As for the enemies being bullet sponges I do not agree at all, with the right ego set, the right gun and the right nano for each situation things can still melt.

Remember I am still only Ego 2300 and I was never in to max power guns.

simple examples
Infected siege primary load out perks all based around overload and explosives, grenade launcher and swarm cannon damage spike and ammo stim huge amount of player anything but monarchs and elites dying so fast it is crazy fun, monarchs and elites take a little time usually switch to a slug shotgun and my tachmag pulser and yes I use a clip on that thing but what the hell.

Volg siege
Primary loadout sniper rifles cloak plus all the regular stuff, switching between nano's depending on situation, secondary battle rifle and slug shotgun
Again huge amount of players, a lot of fun.

Nice to see so many people switching loadouts and nano's during the fights depending on the enemy facing.

And a simple truth you may not like to hear, every player I have been to in defiance in the last week has been packed with players actually playing, from 20 people taking down a road side event to 40+ at a siege or ark. I see a hell of a lot of people in game having fun.

Sorry if you can't see it :(

It must be nice to be able to reliably switch loadouts when there are more than 4 people around.

N3gativeCr33p
04-28-2014, 05:09 AM
I see a hell of a lot of people in game having fun.

And you're absolutely sure that each and every player is "having fun"?

Ummmm, okay.

Ashvan Aeronor
04-28-2014, 05:12 AM
I left Defiance awhile back although I was one of its biggest defenders at the start, every couple of months I would start it up and see if anything changed, dlc 1-4 were okay but nothing that made me want to actually log in and play, I was only ego 1900 and just lost interest.

I re-installed when the big change came in and spent the first three days getting my *** kicked even by roadside events, so I realized that the problem wasn't the game it was me, I was still approaching Defiance as it was.

100 guns in my inventory so after doing some reading sold or salvaged my way down to 40 weapons, tested each weapon at arkfalls, incursions all the new stuff even replaying a few missions.

Went back to the ranch and started to wittle down my guns even more, really thinking, planning my loadouts, customizing my loadouts for different situations.

Lets face it before this patch you could get away with pretty much anything, okay you made a little effort if you were in to being top scorer but otherwise nearly all content was a walk over especially for someone never interested in PVP.

Road side events are no longer a blah but are doable and you see groups of 20 people kicking in for a road side event and its still challenging.

I can now solo all of what I could solo before I just have to think before I engage the enemy., my load outs will always need tweaking especially as I get more ego but solo missions hell even the annoying D guy isn't that hard if you use tactics.

One of the hardest things was to scrap pretty much all of my old weapons, to step outside the comfort zone, to actually think about the weapon and the nano effect more that its colour.

Thank you Trion, this game is now more in line with the challenges shown in the tv show.

Couldent have put it better myselfe.
I came back to the game two weeks ago and im realy enjoying it. :)
Edit: And to be honest. There are more players around now than when i stoped playing, so Trion must have done something correct.

Ironhide
04-28-2014, 05:23 AM
Couldent have put it better myselfe.
I came back to the game two weeks ago and im realy enjoying it. :)
Edit: And to be honest. There are more players around now than when i stoped playing, so Trion must have done something correct.

Yeah its called shutting down Shards, it forces alll players into one of 2 or 3 shards to make it seem populated. Its just the repositioning of assests. Like how TacoBell uses mostly lettuce on their tacos to make people think their getting a lot of food for their money.

deadeye2180
04-28-2014, 05:42 AM
Dont usually bother to post in forums as there nothing but a cesspool of toxicity towards defiance with very little in the way of constructive threads. But though id throw my 2 pence in.
Have recently returned post dlc 5. I can honestly say im having a blast playing again. Before dlc 5 everything was extremely easy to do. Very few players as well on both 360 and pc from what I seen. Now on the 360 at least the servers seem populated and theres a challenge to the game. Yes ill admit there work to be done but there going in the right direction.

Keep up the good work trion

Calranthe
04-28-2014, 06:58 AM
Before 1.5 my friends list was pretty much 99% offline, now it is 70% online as the above said this forum is so full of the toxic few who some have admitted not even logging in after patch 1.5, the people enjoying the game are in the game.

Manstan
04-28-2014, 07:14 AM
That is still anecdotal.
What EGO level are these friends?
It's been shown repeatedly that with a 5K+ EGO, that this update hasn't really effected you. Until this last update I never abandoned a mission, emergency, siege, or what have you. Now I have little other option most of the time. Until I started abandoning battles when the threat level was too high I couldn't advance my EGO due to lost scores. And at a TL of 10 and an EGO of 2K a fart is a one hit kill and I might as well just be throwing dirty looks at them for all the good my weapons do.

Lucky for the newbie doing the story missions means being on a different shard so no scaling issues. Now all they have to do is avoid everything in between the missions to live long enough to do the missions.

Thing is it's not how many people are playing, or logging back in, it's how much money are they spending and how regular. Ten people with more money then sense counts for more them 1K players that never spend a dime.

Pandur
04-28-2014, 08:10 AM
Sorry for not replying to my own thread for a day the simple reason is I was in game having fun, yes fun.

Before this change everything was so blah, killing a monarch in 5 seconds, destroying volg with a few well placed hits, dark matter were a joke and hell bugs well maybe we should rename them to soft and squidgy bugs.

Pre 1.5 you had to race to get a hit on an A class enemy before he exploded and road side events became so easy that people would shoot once and ride on into the sunset.

As for the enemies being bullet sponges I do not agree at all, with the right ego set, the right gun and the right nano for each situation things can still melt.

Remember I am still only Ego 2300 and I was never in to max power guns.

simple examples
Infected siege primary load out perks all based around overload and explosives, grenade launcher and swarm cannon damage spike and ammo stim huge amount of player anything but monarchs and elites dying so fast it is crazy fun, monarchs and elites take a little time usually switch to a slug shotgun and my tachmag pulser and yes I use a clip on that thing but what the hell.

Volg siege
Primary loadout sniper rifles cloak plus all the regular stuff, switching between nano's depending on situation, secondary battle rifle and slug shotgun
Again huge amount of players, a lot of fun.

Nice to see so many people switching loadouts and nano's during the fights depending on the enemy facing.

And a simple truth you may not like to hear, every player I have been to in defiance in the last week has been packed with players actually playing, from 20 people taking down a road side event to 40+ at a siege or ark. I see a hell of a lot of people in game having fun.

Sorry if you can't see it :(

I don't know if i solo things tend to be even easier than before, not even the loadout slot matters. If there's only a few people around with about the same ego it's the same, but load out and such matters a bit more.
It gets bullet spongy and boring once threat level goes to 9 or 10 and i get ego boosted. It again does not get harder just tons more tedious.
At this point i'm kinda praying no one comes around so i can play in peace especially at minor ark breaks:P.

I'm not extremely social i always liked playing alone more anyways, but before other people where fun to hang out with or at least a non issue.
As it is now playing a multiplayer game where i actually dread other people to come around and make things tedious can't be quite right.

Deunan
04-28-2014, 12:06 PM
Before this change everything was so blah, killing a monarch in 5 secondsThey still die in seconds at Major Arkfall boss fights but that's because the scaling was broken at the boss fights. The next patch fixes that (already observed for the short time it was running before it was rolled back). Still I'm glad you brought that up as an example because it simply illustrates the point of how certain aspects of greater difficulty aren't exciting so much as they are monotonous. With Monarchs you simply shoot them in the belly when they rear up for their special attack and it stuns them. Then you run around to their back to shoot their tail soft spot and it also stuns them. Then they get back up and you shoot them in the belly when they.... See where this is going? Maybe you find increased joy in this but a lot of players don't.

The problem with all of your examples is that you're using mass events as your example in general and you're apparently on a server where Volge Sieges get zerged which doesn't really happen on the PC NA server. It's pretty much the reverse because our server population for mass events is relatively low compared to Xbox and PC EU and the scaling for Volge Sieges doesn't take that into account. I have no issue with either of them but a lot of players clearly aren't enjoying the Volge Sieges because they're getting downed so much their scores are miniscule by the end of the event.

The biggest issue is how dynamic scaling affects locations designed for a small group of players such as Conflict Sites or Emergencies. Outside of Incursions and the Emergencies that spawn by Iron Demon Ranch, there are not going to be more than a few players at most doing them and all it takes is one high EGO player to scale the mobs up to a level where the low EGO players are going to have to expend massive amounts of ammunition to kill the mobs off even with the appropriate nano-effects running.

N3gativeCr33p
04-28-2014, 12:09 PM
<snip> Still I'm glad you brought that up as an example because it simply illustrates the point of how certain aspects of greater difficulty aren't exciting so much as they are monotonous. With Monarchs you simply shoot them in the belly when they rear up for their special attack and it stuns them. Then you run around to their back to shoot their tail soft spot and it also stuns them. Then they get back up and you shoot them in the belly when they.... See where this is going? Maybe you find increased joy in this but a lot of players don't. <snip>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZEtVbJT5c

3rdpig
04-28-2014, 01:15 PM
Couldent have put it better myselfe.
I came back to the game two weeks ago and im realy enjoying it. :)
Edit: And to be honest. There are more players around now than when i stoped playing, so Trion must have done something correct.

That may be true, but there are far less than there were just a few weeks ago. I used to hardly ever arrive at a daily or weekly contract point and have to solo it, now it's solo almost every time. Also, the night before last I tried to get into a coop and I waited an hour, and that's on PC-NA. I can't remember ever having to wait more than 10-15 minutes, and that was rare. This is all anecdotal, but the game seems empty to me from just a few weeks ago.

Both my casual gaming friends liked the game when it wasn't so complex. They still don't understand the grenade change and feel it was unnecessary and detracted from the simple and fun game mechanic. They rarely bother with Stims and Spikes, and now we've got 2 or 3 MORE in game currencies? Hell, all they want is a new hat and now they need a secret decoder ring just to figure out what they need to get it? Frakking absurd.

Knightmage
04-28-2014, 03:36 PM
I like that the game is more challenging, but the bullet sponge mechanics of TL10 are almost insane. I think the easiest fix that Trion could make for this to keep it challanging is to play with the size and placement of damage zones on the NPCs. Add golden BB physics. The programming is in place, but needs tweaking. I mean common sense says that a bullet to the eye is going to do some terminal damage, so why not do just that, make a sweet spot that actually takes some skill, and not infinite ammo to kill the NPC. The higher the level of the NPC the smaller the sweet spot, or mitigate the damage a little because of superior shields or plating, or a little of both. And before anyone says it I know it's a game and common sense is trumped by the programmers mood, but it's an idea to keep the game moving forward, keep it challenging, but not make it that grind we all feel it can be at times.