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Xervez
04-29-2014, 10:00 AM
So far Trion has made some drastic game mechanic changes, now it's time for them to make Weapon Identity / Balance changes...

Discussing in this thread:

1) Semi-Auto Snipers (Non-Charged)
2) Sub Machine Guns

Suggestions: Fair but balanced / interesting weapons

1) VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles

- Turn them into fully automatic snipers without the ability to critical.
- Give them VBI Ranger Bloom.
- Reduce their damage to around 4k-6k per shot depending on rarity.

Identity:

- Easy to use fully Auto Sniper with weak damage and no critical ability but consistent damage.

Balance:

- Fully Auto / Low - Medium Damage / Limited Ammo Pool
- Ease of use compared to other Semi Auto's
- No Critical Ability due to it being fully Auto
- Consistent damage / great for Support / Cover Firing


2) FRC Nomad

- Remove Weapon from game or from the loot tables until you can give it an actual identity -

------

Trion please bring back the old scope visuals and give us more choice.

Discuss and post your balance / identity changes....

N3gativeCr33p
04-29-2014, 10:23 AM
I just want to see them make the game fun to play once again... that's all, nothing less.

Extreme Rugburn
04-29-2014, 10:39 AM
So far Trion has made some drastic game mechanic changes, now it's time for them to make Weapon Identity / Balance changes...

Discussing in this thread:

1) Semi-Auto Snipers (Non-Charged)
2) Sub Machine Guns

Suggestions: Fair but balanced / interesting weapons

1) VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles

- Turn them into fully automatic snipers without the ability to critical.
- Give them VBI Ranger Bloom.
- Reduce their damage to around 4k-6k per shot depending on rarity.

Identity:

- Easy to use fully Auto Sniper with weak damage and no critical ability but consistent damage.

Balance:

- Fully Auto / Low - Medium Damage / Limited Ammo Pool
- Ease of use compared to other Semi Auto's
- No Critical Ability due to it being fully Auto
- Consistent damage / great for Support / Cover Firing

You just created another assault rifle, except without critical capabilities.

bigguy
04-29-2014, 10:41 AM
Yeah i dont agree with the OP on this one i agree with creep the game has way too many problems and they cant fix one thing without having a problem with another , no suggestions on changing anything just fix the problems PLEASE.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 11:16 AM
You just created another assault rifle, except without critical capabilities.

Except an Assault Rifle
- Has major falloff damage at max range
- A good amount of more recoil
- Has more ammo in overall ammo pool
- Also they would be able to get critical hits

-----

It's called giving it an identity within it's weapon class, if you have ideas please post them and if not don't add useless comments on the thread.

Post your reason and idea for those 2 weapon categories, it is a discussion overall.

cary2010haha
04-29-2014, 11:25 AM
FRC Nomad is a gd all round smg, not like pulser which weak at aim shoot , or VBI smg which weak at hip shoot

FRC Nomad :

mid to high rate of fire
gd accuracy both hip and aim shoot
very large clip in smg type.
low recoil.

only bad thing is low damage..............

DSW
04-29-2014, 11:46 AM
Except an Assault Rifle
- Has major falloff damage at max range
- A good amount of more recoil
- Has more ammo in overall ammo pool
- Also they would be able to get critical hits

-----

It's called giving it an identity within it's weapon class, if you have ideas please post them and if not don't add useless comments on the thread.

Post your reason and idea for those 2 weapon categories, it is a discussion overall.

if you need a no-falloff ranged gun, then plug a +11 falloff mod on Disruptor or Volge Battle Rifle, lol. oh wait, it can crit too! so it's all would be a useless gun to everyone, even you after, let's say, a day or two.

if you want to rebalance guns, ask for Flash Rifles (both Mazu and plain) and the Nomad SMG, yeah. also buff in damage or proc rate for Syphon nano and stop acting trion way by trying to fix what wasn't broken in first place.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 11:58 AM
if you need a no-falloff ranged gun, then plug a +11 falloff mod on Disruptor or Volge Battle Rifle, lol. oh wait, it can crit too! so it's all would be a useless gun to everyone, even you after, let's say, a day or two.

if you want to rebalance guns, ask for Flash Rifles (both Mazu and plain) and the Nomad SMG, yeah. also buff in damage or proc rate for Syphon nano and stop acting trion way by trying to fix what wasn't broken in first place.

+11 falloff mod on a Disruptor would be a waste of a mod, also a disrupters shots are wild especially at sniper range / max range.

------

The weapon would be for

- Support / cover fire not meant to be a heavy hitter compared to the other Semi Auto's
- Ease of use for Semi Auto's
- Be as precise as a Ranger give or take but it will be fully automatic


------

This is not an Assault Rifle / Light Machine Gun thread, it's discussing

1) VBI Semi Auto Sniper Rifles
2) FRC Nomads

Please stick to the topic at hand

Xervez
04-29-2014, 12:04 PM
FRC Nomad is a gd all round smg, not like pulser which weak at aim shoot , or VBI smg which weak at hip shoot

FRC Nomad :

mid to high rate of fire
gd accuracy both hip and aim shoot
very large clip in smg type.
low recoil.

only bad thing is low damage..............

------

You basically described a VOT Tachmag Pulser which outshines a FRC Nomad in everyway.

------

I ask you this what is the identity of this gun?

Extreme Rugburn
04-29-2014, 12:12 PM
It's called giving it an identity within it's weapon class, if you have ideas please post them and if not don't add useless comments on the thread.

Post your reason and idea for those 2 weapon categories, it is a discussion overall.

Wow, how rude. You posted a thread for DISCUSSION, in which I took part. If you cant handle someone elses opinion you shouldnt be posting on these forums. And since you poked the bear...quite frankly your entire thread is whats useless.

Zugo
04-29-2014, 12:14 PM
The semi-snipers don't have magazines large enough to support full auto fire. The real issue is overall DPS. Since the enemies become bullet sponges at TL 10 you can't use BA or Semi Snipers in an effective way.

DPS needs to be increased either by bullet damage or Crit rating.

Deunan
04-29-2014, 12:15 PM
Absolutely no on the VBI Semi-Auto. One, sniper rifles are supposed to be burst damage weapons. Take that away and you rob it of it's identity as a sniper rifle. Two, fully automatic sniper rifle with an ammo pool of 50 is a horrible idea.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 12:17 PM
Wow, how rude. You posted a thread for DISCUSSION, in which I took part. If you cant handle someone elses opinion you shouldnt be posting on these forums. And since you poked the bear...quite frankly your entire thread is whats useless.

How rude? The fact your jumping off topic shows you probably are going to troll the thread.

Also you know the Armor plates we have now, awhile back we had an old pvp / overall outfit discussion talking about armor and how to put it into the game.

Low and behold we have armor plates now, go figure...

Xervez
04-29-2014, 12:22 PM
Absolutely no on the VBI Semi-Auto. One, sniper rifles are supposed to be burst damage weapons. Take that away and you rob it of it's identity as a sniper rifle. Two, fully automatic sniper rifle with an ammo pool of 50 is a horrible idea.

You understand identity, but how would you improve or change the weapon since the

FRC Quick Repeater
VBI Ranger

outshine the VBI Semi Auto Sniper Rifle in everyway.

Trying to get insight on improving the weapon so it's not just an inferior carbon copy of the other 2 Semi Auto Snipers.

K Ron Spliffs
04-29-2014, 12:46 PM
Use a Heavy Assault Carbine, Has a scope and very accurate.

ConcreteSnake
04-29-2014, 12:50 PM
Vbi semi auto sniper = frc quick repeater

Frc nomad = tachmag pulser

a lot of the weapons are just different version of vbi, frc, vot

they already make sense

Deunan
04-29-2014, 12:53 PM
Make it do what it's weapon description says. Give it a modest increase in fire rate (3.5) and cut the bloom in half.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 12:57 PM
Vbi semi auto sniper = frc quick repeater

Frc nomad = tachmag pulser

a lot of the weapons are just different version of vbi, frc, vot

they already make sense

----

A VBI Semi Auto Sniper does not equal a FRC Quick Repeater, look at the bloom (major difference)

and the feel of the gun when you shoot. The FRC Quick Repeater just feels / shoots more smoothly.

-----

Same with the other comment below

FRC Nomad fire rate = 16.0
VOT Tachmag Pulser fire rate = 25.0

Damage wise FRC Nomad does less damage then a VOT Tachmag Pulser per shot.

They are no way in equal terms...

So I ask again why use a FRC Nomad that does less damage per shot, shoots slower, has a slightly more ammo?

What is the guns identity so its not an inferior carbon copy?

Xervez
04-29-2014, 01:10 PM
Make it do what it's weapon description says. Give it a modest increase in fire rate (3.5) and cut the bloom in half.

You basically described what a FRC Quick Repeater does, shoots fast, accurate, smoothly, and with little recoil.

Giving it an increase in fire rate would basically make it almost fully auto with very little stop gap in between shots, but that would make it too strong if it still had the damage, less recoil and critical capability.

Have to balance it out, by giving and taking...

Deunan
04-29-2014, 01:27 PM
An FRC Quick Repeater has the same fire rate as the VBI Semi-Automatic. As a practical matter it fires faster because of the smaller bloom. It's a gross overstatement to say adding 1 bullet to the rate of fire would make it almost fully automatic. There semi-automatic weapons that have a much higher rate of fire and the slowest fully automatic weapon fires at more than twice that rate. It would also still have a greater bloom and recoil to balance out the rate of fire and, even though the fire rate difference would be nominal, given the limited ammo pool, that would still be another limitation on it's comparative damage output.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 01:48 PM
The semi-snipers don't have magazines large enough to support full auto fire. The real issue is overall DPS. Since the enemies become bullet sponges at TL 10 you can't use BA or Semi Snipers in an effective way.

DPS needs to be increased either by bullet damage or Crit rating.

You need to break their armor first to get full damage from the snipers.

Yes they are bullet sponges but use an ammo spike while someone breaks their armor and you should be good.

I use my rad ranger all the time, with a sludge rocket to break their armor.

I also use the scavenger perk for more ammo drops which will also help your ammo situation.

Increase in bullet damage or crit rating would make it too strong, they already increased damage on it once and it was bordering on bolt action sniper rifle damage.

ConcreteSnake
04-29-2014, 01:51 PM
----

A VBI Semi Auto Sniper does not equal a FRC Quick Repeater, look at the bloom (major difference)

and the feel of the gun when you shoot. The FRC Quick Repeater just feels / shoots more smoothly.

-----

Same with the other comment below

FRC Nomad fire rate = 16.0
VOT Tachmag Pulser fire rate = 25.0

Damage wise FRC Nomad does less damage then a VOT Tachmag Pulser per shot.

They are no way in equal terms...

So I ask again why use a FRC Nomad that does less damage per shot, shoots slower, has a slightly more ammo?

What is the guns identity so its not an inferior carbon copy?

because grenades

every game will have weapons that are better than others and ones prefer over others.

what are we discussing hypothetical changes that will indeed never happen?

I was referring to them being equivalent "types" of weapons made by different races.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 02:00 PM
An FRC Quick Repeater has the same fire rate as the VBI Semi-Automatic. As a practical matter it fires

faster because of the smaller bloom. It's a gross overstatement to say adding 1 bullet to the rate of fire would make it almost fully

automatic. There semi-automatic weapons that have a much higher rate of fire and the slowest fully automatic weapon fires at more

than twice that rate. It would also still have a greater bloom and recoil to balance out the rate of fire and, even though the fire rate

difference would be nominal, given the limited ammo pool, that would still be another limitation on it's comparative damage output.

Then it's basically a Ranger, which has a fire rate of 5.5, but their is a slight pause after each volley of shots.

Remove the pause between shots from a ranger and you have a new type of semi auto sniper rifle, but it would need to be balanced in damage / shot / critical ratio if any.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 02:07 PM
because grenades

every game will have weapons that are better than others and ones prefer over others.

what are we discussing hypothetical changes that will indeed never happen?

I was referring to them being equivalent "types" of weapons made by different races.

because grenades?

(what are we discussing hypothetical changes that will indeed never happen?

because death marches? Incursions were added

because armor on outfits? Armor plates were added)

Giving a weapon an identity gives the weapon longevity since it makes it relevant, as of now an

FRC Nomad is really not relevant since VOT Tachmags Pulsers / VOT Needlers surpass it in every
way possible.

Weapons neglected need to brought up to par or taken out of the loot table since it's just a waste of space.

Deunan
04-29-2014, 02:44 PM
Then it's basically a Ranger, which has a fire rate of 5.5, but their is a slight pause after each volley of shots.

Remove the pause between shots from a ranger and you have a new type of semi auto sniper rifle, but it would need to be balanced in damage / shot / critical ratio if any.The Ranger is a burst fire weapon. An increase of 1 to the fire rating is not going to make the VBI Semi the same as a Ranger. It will have a slightly higher rate of fire than the FRC with slightly less control. In the hands of an exceptional sniper they'll be able to compensate for that, and in the hands of a less competent sniper those players will prefer to use the FRC.

What a lot of players tend to overlook is that the Ranger doesn't allow you to conserve ammo when it's not necessary to use more than one shot to take a mob out which is why, for me, it's actually inferior to the VBI Semi for most jobs that I use a semi auto sniper (taking out trash mobs in rapid succession). It only shines when you're sniping mobs that you can't take out with one shot which is why it's the preferred sniper rifle to use on the Warmaster for those that favor them over Wolfhound pistols.

This circles back to Zugo's point which has also been made in other post DLC5 posts, which is that the armor plate system has completely devalued sniping by making opportunities for one shot kills with sniper rifles almost non existent. I think that all sniper rifles should have an additional stat added to them, which is the ability to ignore a certain number of armor plates when hitting targets. It could mirror the shield armor plate system and be based on rarity. White and Green sniper rifles ignore 1 plate, Blue and Purple sniper rifles ignore 2 plates, and Orange sniper rifles ignore 3 plates. It then becomes kind of obvious what the preferred nano effect would be for sniper rifles and it's readily accessible through a converter mod for a slot where sacrificing the normal mod benefits probably has the least impact out of all of the weapon lines putting the two weapon lines back in business for one shot killing scaled trash mobs (and scaled medium mobs for bolt action sniper rifles).

Xervez
04-29-2014, 03:25 PM
The Ranger is a burst fire weapon. An increase of 1 to the fire rating is not going to make the VBI Semi the same as a Ranger. It will have a slightly higher rate of fire than the FRC with slightly less control. In the hands of an exceptional sniper they'll be able to compensate for that, and in the hands of a less competent sniper those players will prefer to use the FRC.

This circles back to Zugo's point which has also been made in other post DLC5 posts, which is that the armor plate system has completely devalued sniping by making opportunities for one shot kills with sniper rifles almost non existent. I think that all sniper rifles should have an additional stat added to them, which is the ability to ignore a certain number of armor plates when hitting targets. It could mirror the shield armor plate system and be based on rarity. White and Green sniper rifles ignore 1 plate, Blue and Purple sniper rifles ignore 2 plates, and Orange sniper rifles ignore 3 plates. It then becomes kind of obvious what the preferred nano effect would be for sniper rifles and it's readily accessible through a converter mod for a slot where sacrificing the normal mod benefits probably has the least impact out of all of the weapon lines putting the two weapon lines back in business for one shot killing scaled trash mobs (and scaled medium mobs for bolt action sniper rifles).

Back to my point the VBI Semi Auto still has no identity besides being a carbon copy of inferior quality then a FRC Quick Repeater.

For ex.
I have a VBI Semi Auto Sniper Rifle with fire rate and Cannoneer syn on it, and it is still an inferior quality version of an FRC Quick Repeater.

The Ranger is a burst fire weapon, yes that is the identity of the weapon, which comes around to the point I was making that the VBI Semi Auto has no identity but being an inferior quality version of the FRC Quick Repeater.

-----

Your 2nd statement is concerning Armor penetration, that is a whole another topic which would help out the Sniper Rifles, but what this discussion is about is giving ideas that would make the VBI Semi Auto have it's own identity.

ConcreteSnake
04-29-2014, 03:33 PM
because grenades?

(what are we discussing hypothetical changes that will indeed never happen?

because death marches? Incursions were added

because armor on outfits? Armor plates were added)

Giving a weapon an identity gives the weapon longevity since it makes it relevant, as of now an

FRC Nomad is really not relevant since VOT Tachmags Pulsers / VOT Needlers surpass it in every
way possible.

Weapons neglected need to brought up to par or taken out of the loot table since it's just a waste of space.

because grenades.....did not need changes

my point is it doesn't matter if there are inferior weapons in the loot table. Every game has them and it is more about preference. All guns do not have to be equal, nor do they need to be useable. Longer more fulfilling chase. I like the nomad for its large magazine. I like the vbi sniper because of its model looks. Lets let them focus on things that NEED to be done instead of what seems to be the wishes of ONE person.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 03:52 PM
because grenades.....did not need changes

my point is it doesn't matter if there are inferior weapons in the loot table. Every game has them and it is more about preference. All guns do not have to be equal, nor do they need to be useable. Longer more fulfilling chase. I like the nomad for its large magazine. I like the vbi sniper because of its model looks. Lets let them focus on things that NEED to be done instead of what seems to be the wishes of ONE person.

because grenades... get over it

You can throw all 5 grenades by the time your grenade is recharged compared to the older system.

I don't know about you but throwing all 5 of my grenades is better then waiting around for the recharge to come back up in the old system.

Funny thing, it's called sharing ideas and letting them know that their weapons need to be looked at since they keep re-using the vbi semi auto sniper which is the inferior one out of the set.

I don't know about you but it's called General Discussion isn't it?

if you can't post anything constructive step away, stop complaining about grenades, and open your own thread on the issues that you think that need to be discussed.

Deunan
04-29-2014, 04:06 PM
Back to my point the VBI Semi Auto still has no identity besides being a carbon copy of inferior quality then a FRC Quick Repeater.I already addressed your point with a suggested change. If you don't understand how that that makes a difference then there's no point in discussing it further.

cary2010haha
04-29-2014, 05:32 PM
------

You basically described a VOT Tachmag Pulser which outshines a FRC Nomad in everyway.

------

I ask you this what is the identity of this gun?

tachmag "Technically" have bad aim accuracy , unlike nomad smg have same gd accuracy in both hip and aim.

and Tachmag Pulser isn't outshines a FRC Nomad in everyway, FRC Nomad smg's ammo efficiency is better than Tachmag Pulser which highly affect 1.5 gameplay, of cuz, both of them are not enough "ammo efficiency" in 1.5 gameplay.



it's weak doesn't make it have no identity, not every gun need to be wolfhound, pulser, canker, quick repeater , VBI rifle, big boomer, longshot cannon.

Lillith Valerian
04-29-2014, 05:52 PM
So far Trion has made some drastic game mechanic changes, now it's time for them to make Weapon Identity / Balance changes...

Discussing in this thread:

1) Semi-Auto Snipers (Non-Charged)
2) Sub Machine Guns

Suggestions: Fair but balanced / interesting weapons

1) VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles

- Turn them into fully automatic snipers without the ability to critical.
- Give them VBI Ranger Bloom.
- Reduce their damage to around 4k-6k per shot depending on rarity.

Identity:

- Easy to use fully Auto Sniper with weak damage and no critical ability but consistent damage.

Balance:

- Fully Auto / Low - Medium Damage / Limited Ammo Pool
- Ease of use compared to other Semi Auto's
- No Critical Ability due to it being fully Auto
- Consistent damage / great for Support / Cover Firing


2) FRC Nomad

- Remove Weapon from game or from the loot tables until you can give it an actual identity -

------

Trion please bring back the old scope visuals and give us more choice.

Discuss and post your balance / identity changes....

No. No, no, no, no. This is an absolutely horrible idea.

Adding auto abilities and taking away crit damage is pretty much the exact *opposite* of what needs to be done. It would make the ammo problem worse, rob snipers of what makes them snipers, and pretty much turn them into long range clones of other weapons.

Fixing snipers involves two things. 1.) Increase ammo pool. 2.) Increase damage, or better yet, either increase their crit, or give them some kind of 'reverse damage reduction' that allows them to bypass armor. There. Snipers fixed.

*Edit*

Aaaaand I see Deunan voiced my thought before I could...

Xervez
04-29-2014, 06:14 PM
I already addressed your point with a suggested change. If you don't understand how that that makes a difference then there's no point in discussing it further.

Yea you suggested a fire rate increase, and ARMOR PENETRATION for sniper rifles.

ARMOR PENETRATION is a different topic since it effects all of them.

A fire rate increase for the VBI semi auto will not give it an identity since it still sub par to a FRC quick repeater. If you don't understand how that makes a difference then there's no point in discussing it further.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 06:18 PM
No. No, no, no, no. This is an absolutely horrible idea.

Adding auto abilities and taking away crit damage is pretty much the exact *opposite* of what needs to be done. It would make the ammo problem worse, rob snipers of what makes them snipers, and pretty much turn them into long range clones of other weapons.

Fixing snipers involves two things. 1.) Increase ammo pool. 2.) Increase damage, or better yet, either increase their crit, or give them some kind of 'reverse damage reduction' that allows them to bypass armor. There. Snipers fixed.

*Edit*

Aaaaand I see Deunan voiced my thought before I could...

Originally we asked for a separate ammo pool not more damage. They gave us more damage

which was bordering on Bolt Action Damage and that threw Bolt Action Damage out of whack

since to get the best out of it you need criticals.

The thread isn't about fixing snipers its about giving that specific weapon an identity, to make it different then the other Regular Semi Auto's.

Fixing snipers and Armor Penetration is a whole different thing on itself.

If you read the thread carefully it's about identity for that specific weapon and not changing all the snipers.

Nefarious
04-29-2014, 06:32 PM
oh oh I got some.

The FRC Rocket Pod is just a poor mans version of the VOT Longshot Cannon. They have the same stats except that the Longshot Cannons rockets travel faster. If the Longshot's rockets benefit from faster projectile travel speed then they should yield less blast radius to make up for it.

Heavy Sawed Off Shotguns *The ones that shoot slug rounds*. Should benefit from having a high chance of a knock down effect. They are single shot weapons that are not particular strong and need pin point accuracy to hit. If they had a knock down effect then it would give it a unique edge.

The 7th Legion Amakuni *the Katana Sword* is a carbon copy of the Charge Blade. Would be nice for it to have its own sound effects for equipping and swinging. And for its jump attack to be something totally different and unique to separate it from acting exactly the same way as a Charge Blade.

The Lightning Rifle totally sucks and no one ever uses it. The projectile it shoots is slow, super weak, and it doesn't register head shots correctly. Its totally neglected. It needs a big boost.

Also..Ego Charge on reload is in need of a cool down. Speed Boost on reload is in need of a cool down or be earned via a critical kill. Infector Grenade bugs should have a way shorter life span. And....Cloakzaggerdetonator!

Lillith Valerian
04-29-2014, 06:38 PM
If you read the thread carefully it's about identity for that specific weapon and not changing all the snipers.

Purely semantics.

Your idea is still terrible, my suggestion still applies, and snipers still need fixed. There doesn't appear to be any use in continuing debating it with you.

FWIW: I see no inherent 'identity problem'. Only an overall effectiveness problem.

Yrkul
04-29-2014, 06:38 PM
So far Trion has made some drastic game mechanic changes, now it's time for them to make Weapon Identity / Balance changes...

Discussing in this thread:

1) Semi-Auto Snipers (Non-Charged)
2) Sub Machine Guns

Suggestions: Fair but balanced / interesting weapons

1) VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles

- Turn them into fully automatic snipers without the ability to critical.
- Give them VBI Ranger Bloom.
- Reduce their damage to around 4k-6k per shot depending on rarity.

Identity:

- Easy to use fully Auto Sniper with weak damage and no critical ability but consistent damage.

Balance:

- Fully Auto / Low - Medium Damage / Limited Ammo Pool
- Ease of use compared to other Semi Auto's
- No Critical Ability due to it being fully Auto
- Consistent damage / great for Support / Cover Firing


2) FRC Nomad

- Remove Weapon from game or from the loot tables until you can give it an actual identity -

------

Trion please bring back the old scope visuals and give us more choice.

Discuss and post your balance / identity changes....
As mentioned before, a lot of the weapons are more or less clones in stats and mechanics. If anything, several guns need to be removed instead.

I also noticed the votan semiauto sniper is absent from your proposal.

I'd say remove the Ranger instead. Sniper rifles are precision weapons, so burst fire, and even worse, fully automatic fire would defeat the purpose they were intended for. If you want that two-shot anywhere, it should be placed on the votan semi instead. It would make more sense for an energy based weapon, and a lot of votan weapons already use multiple "projectiles" per shot.

Then to differentiate between the VBI semi and the FRC semi: The VBI semiautomatic sniper rifle model looks like it has a freefloating barrel, so it should be more precise than the FRC, which looks more like a HKMSG90. So give the VBI semi a higher crit rate to reflect the superior accuracy, and the FRC less bloom, recoil and a higher magazine capacity.

I'd rather see the devs stabilize and consolidate the game, rather that change yet more things. We're seeing right now what happens, when they mess around with things they don't fully understand.

And yes, I too have things I would like changed, reworked and elaborated on in regards to weapons. However, it is not what the game is in dire need of.

Deunan
04-29-2014, 06:39 PM
A fire rate increase for the VBI semi auto will not give it an identity since it still sub par to a FRC quick repeater. If you don't understand how that makes a difference then there's no point in discussing it further.Yes because a VOT Tachmag Pulser doesn't have a weapon identity compared to a VOT Pulser. If you don't understand the analogy you simply lack the capacity to understand weapon mechanics or weapon identity. Have fun with that. :rolleyes:

Xervez
04-29-2014, 06:39 PM
it's weak doesn't make it have no identity, not every gun need to be wolfhound, pulser, canker, quick repeater , VBI rifle, big boomer, longshot cannon.

That little comment right there points out the small variety of the guns that actually have an identity and stick out, out of all the weapons available to us.

More identity = More diversity = More Longevity = Better for the game overall.

Lillith Valerian
04-29-2014, 06:46 PM
The Ranger is my number one favorite weapon.

I am very glad you are not in charge of development decisions.

Yrkul
04-29-2014, 06:47 PM
That little comment right there points out the small variety of the guns that actually have an identity and stick out, out of all the weapons available to us.

More identity = More diversity = More Longevity = Better for the game overall.
How about fewer guns and sidegrade based modding to give them that diversity instead? As Nefarious pointed out, a lot other weapons are just carbon copies of each other.

Bonehead
04-29-2014, 06:51 PM
The Ranger is my number one favorite weapon.

I am very glad you are not in charge of development decisions.

I have a soft spot for the frc quick repeater.

Lillith Valerian
04-29-2014, 06:55 PM
I have a soft spot for the frc quick repeater.

I love them all, really. Even the PvE-maligned Derailer. I'm just a hardcore sniper freak.

But for semi's, the Ranger by a neck, and for bolts, the FRC action (Lifestealer).

Quebra Regra
04-29-2014, 07:02 PM
I love them all, really. Even the PvE-maligned Derailer. I'm just a hardcore sniper freak.

But for semi's, the Ranger by a neck, and for bolts, the FRC action (Lifestealer).

I have always been puzzled by you love of sniper rifles, they were meh before, and now they're just bork'd sadly (damage and lack o' bullets). Something needs to be done about this.

I tell you, you haven't had fun until you dart out of cover and point blank unload 17 rounds from a poop-shoes grindfragger into raider face! It's just sooo much joy. :)

Yrkul
04-29-2014, 07:13 PM
The Ranger is my number one favorite weapon.

I am very glad you are not in charge of development decisions.
So am I. I would have to start from scratch to get a finished product I could vouch for. The game has been running for too long to get big revisions to its game mechanics or item range... Oh, wait.

To elaborate: I personally find the samurai and spagetti western crap from DLC 3&4 too cheesy and out of place. Yet, if I was put in position of control, where the only factor I had to take into consideration was the continuation of the franchise, I couldn't scrap either! A progression based MMO relies on the permanence of characters and their items, and if you change too many things, you undermine this. And that's the difference between professionals and amateurs. A professional can put his/her work before personal feelings.

So if I were in charge of development decisions, You'd still keep your rifle.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 07:19 PM
Yes because a VOT Tachmag Pulser doesn't have a weapon identity compared to a VOT Pulser. If you don't understand the analogy you simply lack the capacity to understand weapon mechanics or weapon identity. Have fun with that. :rolleyes:

Another ignorant statement from you go figure...

Ok let's get this straight I have 814 inventory slots and 797 of those slots are filled, I literally have every weapon and nano at my beckon call. I look through my inventory all the time planning what weapon works best for all types of situations especially in pvp.

If your on PC NA you most likely have seen me in pvp, certain weapons shine... we all know that but since
the point of this thread is about the VBI Semi Auto Sniper and the FRC Nomad being sub par to the other weapons.

It goes to show you in pvp you mainly see the trends.

9/10 snipers who use Semi Auto's use FRC Quick Repeater / Rangers because a VBI Semi Auto is a terrible carbon copy of a FRC Quick Repeater.

9/10 snipers proabably use a VOT Tachmag pulser because it outshines all of the SMG's majority of the time, most depending on the range of the fight.

Base Stats

comparing 2 5k OJ's

VOT Pulser (Identity = Longer range superiority)
16.0 fire rate
about 500+ more damage per shot
less falloff on the damage per shot

VOT Tachmag Pulser (Identity = Close range superiority)
25.0 fire rate
about 500+ less damage per shot
more falloff per shot on damage

=

VoT Pulser is better for longer range fighting it's slower but packs more punch , while a VoT Tachmag Pulser is better for in your face closeup battles, this is talking about hip firing here not in aim mode.

I stated the identities for the weapons for you plain as day.

Comparing

2 white weapons,

FRC Quick Repeater
Damage / Crit / Fire Rate is the same but they have different starting scopes
bloom recoil is alot less (this means the shot will center alot faster back to its original position for a more consistent rapid shot)

VBI Semi Auto Rifle
Damage / Crit / Fire Rate is the same but they have different starting scopes
bloom recoil is alot more (higher jump on recoil and when shooting rapidly shots will not land in the same place as it does with a FRC Quick Repeater)

like i said a terrible carbon copy of a FRC Quick Repeater, and this is the weapon TRION keeps feeding us over and over and over again and you in your view its seems you like eating the same re-skinned weapon with no identity besides being a crappier version of a FRC Quick Repeater,

while the whole point of this thread is to have them give it something different (identity) so we can get a unique re-skinned weapon since they keep feeding it to us over and over and over again.

Yrkul
04-29-2014, 07:24 PM
Another ignorant statement from you go figure...
Oh, the irony...

Lillith Valerian
04-29-2014, 07:31 PM
I have always been puzzled by you love of sniper rifles, they were meh before, and now they're just bork'd sadly (damage and lack o' bullets). Something needs to be done about this.

I tell you, you haven't had fun until you dart out of cover and point blank unload 17 rounds from a poop-shoes grindfragger into raider face! It's just sooo much joy. :)

I've been using grind fraggers for many months. You're late to the joy party :P

I can clear a volge roadside emergency alone with a bolt action without breaking a sweat (TL 5, I believe). Which is pretty much the same as before DLP 5. We'll agree to disagree on the definition of 'meh'.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 07:33 PM
Oh, the irony...

Yea me explaining the difference the weapons have is ignorant?

Hmm... maybe when you post you might want to stick to the topic at hand.

oh, the irony... if you can't post something constructive, why post?

Bonehead
04-29-2014, 07:36 PM
Yea me explaining the difference the weapons have is ignorant?

Hmm... maybe when you post you might want to stick to the topic at hand.

oh, the irony... if you can't post something constructive, why post?

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/Drop-the-bass_zpse933d248.gif

Yrkul
04-29-2014, 07:42 PM
Yea me explaining the difference the weapons have is ignorant?

Hmm... maybe when you post you might want to stick to the topic at hand.

oh, the irony... if you can't post something constructive, why post?
Yes. Why post indeed? It is obvious that you have your mind set on that full auto sniper rifle, and refuse to see things in any other way? Why indeed do we bother, when you persistently ignore valid arguments? Oh, yes. Some discussion.

Enjoy your wet dream.

Edit:

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/Drop-the-bass_zpse933d248.gif
ROFL

Xervez
04-29-2014, 07:57 PM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/Drop-the-bass_zpse933d248.gif

Funny eh, so I guess me informing TRION on a sub-par weapon and trying to get something unique

which is in majority of the Faction Vendors with different names with a few different stats but still

sub-par to an FRC Quick Repeater is not worth mentioning?

The Chimera Vendor = Mamba

The VBI Vendor = EMC Semi Auto Sniper Rifle

The Soleptor Vendor = Votan Auto-Bolter

7th Legion Vendor = 7th Legion Daicho

you must like using the weapons that are terrible carbon copies of each other, you can go fish that.

Mess7739
04-29-2014, 08:02 PM
Yea you suggested a fire rate increase, and ARMOR PENETRATION for sniper rifles.

ARMOR PENETRATION is a different topic since it effects all of them.

A fire rate increase for the VBI semi auto will not give it an identity since it still sub par to a FRC quick repeater. If you don't understand how that makes a difference then there's no point in discussing it further.

Its Identity is GARBAGE, they should get rid of it and use its skin for new weapons. You can only have a certain number of roles for weapons. I mean Snipers are for extreme long range shots and they have been broken into 2 weapon skills, Bolt-Action and Semi-Auto, which is based on their damage and rate of fire.

They have sniper rifles that fire twice and use up too much ammo for certain situations, rifles that deal extra damage to vehicles, and some you can charge up for extra damage or have your initial round split into additional ones.

You ask us what its identity should be, turn our thoughts and ideas down without a valid argument and your suggestion is an assault rifle with no critical damage and a really small ammo pool but very long range, hell they should throw that revamp in the trash too. As far as this thread is concerned the idea with giving sniper rifles the ability to ignore armor plates is by far the best. I mean let sniper rifles do what they were designed to do, basically one shot ****.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 08:04 PM
Yes. Why post indeed? It is obvious that you have your mind set on that full auto sniper rifle, and refuse to see things in any other way? Why indeed do we bother, when you persistently ignore valid arguments? Oh, yes. Some discussion.

I'm not set on a full auto sniper rifle, that was a suggestion with checks and balances, yet your quick to jump on it without reading into the full topic and explaining your suggestion.

Duenan main suggestion is Armor Pen which is a good idea, but that is a different topic since that affects all snipers in general, the topic at hand if you actually read the title is Weapon identity, making a weapon not a terrible carbon copy of another.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 08:08 PM
Its Identity is GARBAGE, they should get rid of it and use its skin for new weapons. You can only have a certain number of roles for weapons. I mean Snipers are for extreme long range shots and they have been broken into 2 weapon skills, Bolt-Action and Semi-Auto, which is based on their damage and rate of fire.

They have sniper rifles that fire twice and use up too much ammo for certain situations, rifles that deal extra damage to vehicles, and some you can charge up for extra damage or have your initial round split into additional ones.

You ask us what its identity should be, turn our thoughts and ideas down without a valid argument and your suggestion is an assault rifle with no critical damage and a really small ammo pool but very long range, hell they should throw that revamp in the trash too. As far as this thread is concerned the idea with giving sniper rifles the ability to ignore armor plates is by far the best. I mean let sniper rifles do what they were designed to do, basically one shot ****.

Yea I agree with you, its identity is garbage, but adding armor pen wont fix that sniper rifle since it will still be garbage since it's a terrible carbon copy.

The thread was about those 2 particular weapons, each category has issues that need to be discussed with many different ideas, but everyone seems jump on the point don't do this don't do that.. it's making that weapon not garbage and fit into an area were it can shine.

Plain and Simple... and since we have so many re-named / re-skinned versions of it, getting to fix it might be in all our interests.

Bonehead
04-29-2014, 08:17 PM
Plain and Simple... and since we have so many re-named / re-skinned versions of it, getting to fix it might be in all our interests.

Plane and simple, they don't think it's broke.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 08:33 PM
Plane and simple, they don't think it's broke.

And how are they going to know it's broke if they themselves don't play the game, by voicing our opinions and ideas and how to improve the issue with the weapon.

A Weapon balance thread is a longtime coming, but the best way to do this is evaluate each and every weapon with ideas, because the best way to balance the weapons are the players that do play the game.

Mess7739
04-29-2014, 08:49 PM
Yea I agree with you, its identity is garbage, but adding armor pen wont fix that sniper rifle since it will still be garbage since it's a terrible carbon copy.

Then make it the only one that does, that's its new identity, an inferior sniper rifle that ignores 6 plates of armor. You can mod it up to be a somewhat decent sniper rifle, better but still inferior, and since it ignores armor plates, its ideal for trash mobs.

There now players can one shot skitterlings, congrats.

As for the FRC Nomad, I have no ideas.

cary2010haha
04-29-2014, 10:03 PM
Another ignorant statement from you go figure...

Ok let's get this straight I have 814 inventory slots and 797 of those slots are filled, I literally have every weapon and nano at my beckon call. I look through my inventory all the time planning what weapon works best for all types of situations especially in pvp.

If your on PC NA you most likely have seen me in pvp, certain weapons shine... we all know that but since
the point of this thread is about the VBI Semi Auto Sniper and the FRC Nomad being sub par to the other weapons.

It goes to show you in pvp you mainly see the trends.

9/10 snipers who use Semi Auto's use FRC Quick Repeater / Rangers because a VBI Semi Auto is a terrible carbon copy of a FRC Quick Repeater.

9/10 snipers proabably use a VOT Tachmag pulser because it outshines all of the SMG's majority of the time, most depending on the range of the fight.

Base Stats

comparing 2 5k OJ's

VOT Pulser (Identity = Longer range superiority)
16.0 fire rate
about 500+ more damage per shot
less falloff on the damage per shot

VOT Tachmag Pulser (Identity = Close range superiority)
25.0 fire rate
about 500+ less damage per shot
more falloff per shot on damage

=

VoT Pulser is better for longer range fighting it's slower but packs more punch , while a VoT Tachmag Pulser is better for in your face closeup battles, this is talking about hip firing here not in aim mode.

I stated the identities for the weapons for you plain as day.

Comparing

2 white weapons,

FRC Quick Repeater
Damage / Crit / Fire Rate is the same but they have different starting scopes
bloom recoil is alot less (this means the shot will center alot faster back to its original position for a more consistent rapid shot)

VBI Semi Auto Rifle
Damage / Crit / Fire Rate is the same but they have different starting scopes
bloom recoil is alot more (higher jump on recoil and when shooting rapidly shots will not land in the same place as it does with a FRC Quick Repeater)

like i said a terrible carbon copy of a FRC Quick Repeater, and this is the weapon TRION keeps feeding us over and over and over again and you in your view its seems you like eating the same re-skinned weapon with no identity besides being a crappier version of a FRC Quick Repeater,

while the whole point of this thread is to have them give it something different (identity) so we can get a unique re-skinned weapon since they keep feeding it to us over and over and over again.



frist, do you really know pulser 's fall off is lesser than tachmag? any data?

actually, the different between them is the damage output on tachmag is better and pulser have higher ammo effective, not range superiority.

second, do you have any data of Quick Repeater' fall off is as same as Semi Auto sniper Rifle ?

Xervez
04-29-2014, 10:36 PM
frist, do you really know pulser 's fall off is lesser than tachmag? any data?

actually, the different between them is the damage output on tachmag is better and pulser have higher ammo effective, not range superiority.



http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?93892-Experiment-8-falloff-damage-mod-effect-on-an-SMG-Screenshot-compilation/page2

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?93858-8-Falloff-Damage-mods-on-SMGs

This is a very old post testing out the falloff mods on SMG's etc... you'll have to look deeper to find the exact one with the full testing.

A VOT Tachmag is weaker from farther away then a VOT Pulser, the simple fact that a VOT Pulser does more damage per shot which is around 400-500 more just at a slower fire rate but from farther away and with falloff added to the equation it would have more lee weigh and more damage to spare from falloff.


second, do you have any data of Quick Repeater' fall off is as same as Semi Auto sniper Rifle ?

From what we know all sniper rifles (Bolt Action / Semi Auto) don't have a falloff, unless it is maxed view range were you can only see the person's name, but I believe that was tested also awhile back too.

Just comparing the weapons from white weapons to OJ versions, they are literally the same besides the bloom part.

Also if you fire a FRC Quick Repeater then fire a VBI Semi Auto you'll notice a difference since it has a good amount of lower bloom it feels different, smoother per se when taking multiple shots in a row.

cary2010haha
04-29-2014, 10:43 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?93892-Experiment-8-falloff-damage-mod-effect-on-an-SMG-Screenshot-compilation/page2

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?93858-8-Falloff-Damage-mods-on-SMGs

This is a very old post testing out the falloff mods on SMG's etc... you'll have to look deeper to find the exact one with the full testing.

A VOT Tachmag is weaker from farther away then a VOT Pulser, the simple fact that a VOT Pulser does more damage per shot which is around 400-500 more just at a slower fire rate but from farther away and with falloff added to the equation it would have more lee weigh and more damage to spare from falloff.



From what we know all sniper rifles (Bolt Action / Semi Auto) don't have a falloff, unless it is maxed view range were you can only see the person's name, but I believe that was tested also awhile back too.

Just comparing the weapons from white weapons to OJ versions, they are literally the same besides the bloom part.

Also if you fire a FRC Quick Repeater then fire a VBI Semi Auto you'll notice a difference since it has a good amount of lower bloom it feels different, smoother per se when taking multiple shots in a row.

they don't feel those data have very high chances being out-dated? As i know old pulser can even shoot aoe energy bolts.


And sniper have fall off, you just need to manual change the max sight range from the game file, and you can hit further target(learn from some old "great" SW sniper players), they just have very long range before fall off.

Xervez
04-29-2014, 10:57 PM
they don't feel those data have very high chances being out-dated? As i know old pulser can even shoot aoe energy bolts.

And sniper have fall off, you just need to manual change the max sight range from the game file, and you can hit further target(learn from some old "great" SW sniper players), they just have very long range before fall off.

And exactly who told you that?

The best bolt action snipers back in the days before DLC 1 dropped were Arked and Decimas.

These 2 were hands down the fastest and most consistent snipers back in the days.

Max range is literally no visual view of the target, just the name tag is view able and then you guesstimate where the target head is etc...

Any change / altering of the game files is considered cheating isn't it?

drackiller
04-30-2014, 12:41 AM
Shtako that`s what it is.
Let the weapons be like they are, if you don`t like them , don`t use them. The game gives you the choice to use whatever you want and what can be bad for you can be good for others.

The guns are ok, the problem is the turn that the game had with the Arkbreaker patch.
Tachmags have less damage but they fire faster than light, VOT Pulsers have more damage but they fire slower than the Tachmag and the Nomad has less damage than the previous 2 but it has bigger clips of ammo.
If you don`t like don`t use just don`t give them ideas to frack the game even more.