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View Full Version : 1.506: The Return of the Bulletsponge!



Riz
05-08-2014, 01:03 PM
Busy doing a Conflict Site for the daily contract (Depot something). Was there with 2 lower EGO's and i'm 5.200 EGO. TL 10.

Trion... Really... It takes 5 clips of 70 bullets from my Legendary 7th Legion Nezumi SMG (rated 5.175 EGO) to put down 1 single Goldrusher? Are you out of your friggin' minds (again)!!

Combo Breaker
05-08-2014, 01:20 PM
This is silly. Give me 1 other high ego player and we are fighting for our lives. I thought it was working reasonably well, but no let's jack up the shields of the enemies. Let's jack up the damage enemies are doing.

This is getting ridiculous.

Festival
05-08-2014, 01:24 PM
Basically, not only did they accidentally break stuff that was working before (the scoreboard bug), they deliberately reversed even the modest progress they had made in addressing the utter mind-numbing tedium that is the bullet sponge fiasco. If they actually do what they claim and listen to the players, then clearly they only listened to the very small minority that thought that bullet sponge powcrap was a good idea.

Patience. Wearing. Thin.

bigguy
05-08-2014, 01:25 PM
There are too many poeple saying oh this is great i love the challenge and they dont care about other people. Its an mmo and the voice of the people as a whole say they dont like the system as its working it makes no sense that TRION would go back and make things harder again...What the hell are they thinking - NO MORE BULLET SPONGES

konstantinov
05-08-2014, 01:26 PM
Some clannies and I did manage to get the expert Co op done (Commandeer Chronkhite) but the mobs were able to take numerous shots from point blank with zaggers. 7-10 shots from a zagger is a bit excessive.

dramaQkarri
05-08-2014, 01:26 PM
Again, so glad I'm at work right now. Will enjoy mowing the lawn when I get home. I'm hoping this latest fiasco is settled in the next 3-4 hours before I even TRY.

Bonehead
05-08-2014, 01:27 PM
Dun da daaaaaaaa!

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/bullet-sponge_zps91e053a2.jpg

Deunan
05-08-2014, 01:30 PM
- NO MORE BULLET SPONGES
MOAR BULLIT SPUNGES PLZ!!!!1111

KTHNXILUVYAGBAI!!!111

In all seriousness though I think this was accidental. The patch notes imply that all scaling adjustments are supposed to go in the other direction.

Manstan
05-08-2014, 01:34 PM
I'm getting menued to death and the game just keeps shutting down. Completely unplayable right now. Typical update.
I've had 30++ mission completed menus pop up giving me absolutely nothing.
And I am past fed up with having to restart the game.

Deunan
05-08-2014, 01:35 PM
Here's my current tin foil hat theory. They somehow accidentally coded the game to acknowledge all players as being everywhere at once. That would cause everyone to get end of event cards anytime anyone else finishes an event. It would also cause every single mob in the game to max out to the highest possible scaled level in the game. :p

BJWyler
05-08-2014, 01:36 PM
There are too many poeple saying oh this is great i love the challenge and they dont care about other people. Its an mmo and the voice of the people as a whole say they dont like the system as its working it makes no sense that TRION would go back and make things harder again...What the hell are they thinking - NO MORE BULLET SPONGES

Let's get one thing straight. Bullet Sponge does not equate to challenge or difficulty. It only equates to tedium and boringness.

Bonehead
05-08-2014, 01:39 PM
Here's my current tin foil hat theory. They somehow accidentally coded the game to acknowledge all players as being everywhere at once. That would cause everyone to get end of event cards anytime anyone else finishes an event. It would also cause every single mob in the game to max out to the highest possible scaled level in the game. :p

http://www.automizeit.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/guinness-brilliant.jpeg

Olaf
05-08-2014, 01:41 PM
Some clannies and I did manage to get the expert Co op done (Commandeer Chronkhite) but the mobs were able to take numerous shots from point blank with zaggers. 7-10 shots from a zagger is a bit excessive.

me and 3 of my clanmembers ran that coop in just over 20 mins. not sure whats up with the enemy scaling however =\

Combo Breaker
05-08-2014, 01:43 PM
me and 3 of my clanmembers ran that coop in just over 20 mins. not sure whats up with the enemy scaling however =\

I beat today's expert co-op as well. Used 3 times the amount of ammo to do it.

Wolfmoon2682
05-08-2014, 01:46 PM
I like a good challenge but yeah... i have to agree this time, it's getting ridiculous. I come from EverQuest where walking to the next zone was suicide... so yeah if i say it's getting too out of control with the difficulty of mobs you know dam well it's true.

PimplyPete
05-08-2014, 01:49 PM
You guys just don't understand, whats the fun in killing an enemy in one clip? When you finally kill an enemy after reloading 6 times, you feel more fulfilled. It's the "longer more fulfilling chase" and it's "working as intended".

[/Insert Sarcasm]

Pandur
05-08-2014, 02:36 PM
Yeah played 2 coops today too, very bullet spongy, especially the soleptor hulkers.
Gah and i just bought gunslinger and arktech because with 1.505 it was somewhat fun again
Now i kinda regret this, Trion has a knack for upsetting people.
I guess they got my 20$ that's what's important right ?

3rdpig
05-08-2014, 02:48 PM
Ah Trion, you never fail to amuse. I had to work a half a day today, but now I'm home with a full load of beer, pretzels, popcorn and chips.

So patch away! This is better than Comedy Central!

dramaQkarri
05-08-2014, 02:56 PM
Ah Trion, you never fail to amuse. I had to work a half a day today, but now I'm home with a full load of beer, pretzels, popcorn and chips.

So patch away! This is better than Comedy Central!

That sounds like a patch removal product, can we spray it on The Company and maybe it will help?

Bonehead
05-08-2014, 03:03 PM
That sounds like a patch removal product, can we spray it on The Company and maybe it will help?

I think it may take a bit more than spray...

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/newsroom/img/posts/2013/11/2846629/7ef4082d1.jpg

InDubioVeritas
05-08-2014, 03:16 PM
Leaving aside the obvious pop-up fiasco, which I can forgive as simple coding error – quickly acknowledged and hopefully quickly resolved - I am despairing at the apparent return of the frankly absurd bullet sponge nonsense.
I confess I was concerned when I read the patch notes. I had very much appreciated the progress made since the original 1.5 patch almost caused me to quit the game, and I was confident we were moving in the right direction. I am a casual player. I do not mind a little challenge, but emptying ten critical hits from a sawed-off (I know, I was levelling the weapon) into a single enemy is just silly. The Volge were again simply unplayable outside the arkfall I tied to participate in. I spent fifteen minutes running away like a madman, and the rest of the time being overwhelmed.
Please, Trion, for the love of Irzu, set the game back on the path to accommodating the casual players who want to have fun first and foremost, and not the frustrating experience of encountering enemies who require absurd numbers of hits to kill. This is sucking the life out of the game.

Hopeisdead
05-08-2014, 04:14 PM
Here's my current tin foil hat theory. They somehow accidentally coded the game to acknowledge all players as being everywhere at once. That would cause everyone to get end of event cards anytime anyone else finishes an event. It would also cause every single mob in the game to max out to the highest possible scaled level in the game. :p

omnipresent impotent players ..Hurray

Irteip Zeugirdor
05-08-2014, 04:50 PM
Patch 1.506 (hotfix) - Patch Notes

Patch 1.506 (hotfix) - Patch Notes

Release Date: 5/8/14 @ 10:00 AM PDT / 5:00 PM GMT

SCALING
* Mobs in the main world outside of events will no longer scale to preposterous difficulty.
* Adjusted scaling health, shield, and damage buffs for high-tier enemies. These enemies are now more dangerous, but will scale more appropriately with increased and decreased threat levels.


So that means that the Volge Cluster Fs (Formerly known as Volge Swarms and Incursions) are gonna remain as Clustered Fd as they are right now but even more difficult and bullet spongy than before??... WoW!! way to go Trion.. Way to Go.


Updated to point out they erased the clapping Gif. I put on this post. Censorship and all huh...Again.. Way to go..

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/praise-the-lord-clapping.gif

Festival
05-08-2014, 05:42 PM
Countless players, from noobs to casuals to heavy hitters, have been pointing out how completely awful this bullet sponge nonsense is ever since the DLC dropped. The ratio of people who have stated they hate it versus people who like it is easily 10-to-1. It's been pointed out by dozens of people that for anyone who's been playing the game a while (or is just decent at shooters), this doesn't make the game any more "challenging" or difficult, just grindy and tedious (and is a death blow to immersion).

So what does Trion do? After making a small amount of progress in the right direction, the latest hotfix makes it worse. Worse. Could there be any clearer indication that for some inexplicable reason, the developers actually think this powcrap is a good idea, and our opinions are irrelevant?

B_Draco
05-08-2014, 05:47 PM
This is silly. Give me 1 other high ego player and we are fighting for our lives. I thought it was working reasonably well, but no let's jack up the shields of the enemies. Let's jack up the damage enemies are doing.

This is getting ridiculous.

Yeah, when I did a co-op for the Chimera daily today, the friggen enemies were jacked up further than before...

Now before this pop-up screw up, I had to go through maybe a clip and a half on average with my bio springer against formidable Dark Matter soldiers. Except of the Monitors, they take more of a beating.
Yet now I have to go through three to four clips of my bio Casti Springer(it has 15% crit from the hip and most of my shots were going to Dark Matter soldiers' faces...). Not only do we get blank checks, we have to work harder for them too...

The friggen 99ers were far more annoying, even with my triple crit electric wolfie with countless shots to the head... And it's an assassin wolfie too... And I even sludged 'em for armor piercing damage too...

Roez
05-08-2014, 05:59 PM
Countless players, from noobs to casuals to heavy hitters, have been pointing out how completely awful this bullet sponge nonsense is ever since the DLC dropped. The ratio of people who have stated they hate it versus people who like it is easily 10-to-1. It's been pointed out by dozens of people that for anyone who's been playing the game a while (or is just decent at shooters), this doesn't make the game any more "challenging" or difficult, just grindy and tedious (and is a death blow to immersion).

So what does Trion do? After making a small amount of progress in the right direction, the latest hotfix makes it worse. Worse. Could there be any clearer indication that for some inexplicable reason, the developers actually think this powcrap is a good idea, and our opinions are irrelevant?

There's a business adage (and based on some studies as well): people who are unhappy complain much more often than people who are happy say they are happy. It's actually a ratio of something like 8 to 1, or maybe 10 to 1 who complain versus those who say they like the same thing. It's one reason--I speculate--why gaming forums are typically filled with complaints rather than praise, with few exceptions.

Midori Oku
05-08-2014, 06:09 PM
Volge sieges are so much fun! :3

Festival
05-08-2014, 06:24 PM
There's a business adage (and based on some studies as well): people who are unhappy complain much more often than people who are happy say they are happy. It's actually a ratio of something like 8 to 1, or maybe 10 to 1 who complain versus those who say they like the same thing. It's one reason--I speculate--why gaming forums are typically filled with complaints rather than praise, with few exceptions.

Oh, I know (I do marketing for a living...). That ratio was a WAG on my part. If I actually researched it, I suspect it would be far more lopsided on the forum. In-game, I've only seen comments against the bullet sponge stuff...but it's not like the game makes it easy to follow zone and area chat (and if it did, I'd probably turn it off).

Manstan
05-08-2014, 07:03 PM
Logged back in just in time for the server to crash lol
{see time stamp}

Time to check it's pockets for change.

Ok, I see, yet another down time for a patch that the server was going down for when I logged out last.

Do you smell something?
Just take a deep breath.
Smell it?

Smells like a bonus weekend to me.

B_Draco
05-08-2014, 07:42 PM
Logged back in just in time for the server to crash lol
{see time stamp}

Time to check it's pockets for change.

Ok, I see, yet another down time for a patch that the server was going down for when I logged out last.

Do you smell something?
Just take a deep breath.
Smell it?

Smells like a bonus weekend to me.

"Well that was a bit fat pile of poop wipe"- Samuel Stuhlinger

Pandur
05-09-2014, 12:37 AM
I have a few theories how coming up with a patch works at Trion

1. They get a pile of things that people like then try to implement a patch that's completely opposite to what people like. People saying they like patch 1.505 must have been a real big red rag to them.

2. Everyone gets smashed then they throw around drunken ideas and play a game of dice to what gets implemented.

3. They play a game of D&D Tomb of horrors and get an inspiration by the cursed wish gem in there.
Then they pick out a player wish they corrupt to the extreme.

I've taken to attributing stuff to incompetence but i'm starting to lean over towards malice.

Tsort
05-09-2014, 01:10 AM
I think it may take a bit more than spray...

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/newsroom/img/posts/2013/11/2846629/7ef4082d1.jpg
Hey, that looks like an Apex Skitterling, right? The ones that take almost more bullets to kill than TL1 Monarchs?

Seriously, I'd have less problems with the bullet sponges if they actually changed the skins. Turn TL10 mobs into Panzer tanks, Iron golems, or Chuck Norris Raiders. And change their name to "Adamantium spacebugs", "Undead Juggernauts" and "Gods of War".

Sometimes I run a couple of co-ops, arkfalls, sieges, etc, then I'm on my own in a TL2 emergency and when I one-shot a raider with a shotgun from 20 meters away, I go "WTF ???" and feel like a thunder god again. So I pull out my LMG, channel the power of Frank Castle, and kill 4 of them with each salvo, watching them wriggle and scream in agony and do backflips after each hits. I pull the pins of a couple of grenades and go full Rambo on their *****.

Then another guy comes up, TL goes up, and I unload a rocket launcher into a skitterling, and it just stands there, grinning with all its little teeth, side-stepping and taunting me. I go back to my Weaksauce Carebear persona down from Death horseman incarnate. Immersion-killing for sure. If at least that skitterling looked like Godzilla on stero´ds instead, with a different name, I'd find solace in my failure.

Pandur
05-09-2014, 02:09 AM
Actually i think they should just make the prefix for TL10 enemies "Spongebob" and make all their textures yellow.
It would perfectly portray the hilarity of the situation while warning newcomers about what they can expect.

Iceberg
05-09-2014, 05:20 AM
Its times like these I am glad GTA 5 is coming out with their high life update. Maybe when I am done with that I will swing back around here to see if they re-re-fixed the game.

Vonna
05-09-2014, 06:02 AM
Hey, that looks like an Apex Skitterling, right? The ones that take almost more bullets to kill than TL1 Monarchs?

Seriously, I'd have less problems with the bullet sponges if they actually changed the skins. Turn TL10 mobs into Panzer tanks, Iron golems, or Chuck Norris Raiders. And change their name to "Adamantium spacebugs", "Undead Juggernauts" and "Gods of War".

Sometimes I run a couple of co-ops, arkfalls, sieges, etc, then I'm on my own in a TL2 emergency and when I one-shot a raider with a shotgun from 20 meters away, I go "WTF ???" and feel like a thunder god again. So I pull out my LMG, channel the power of Frank Castle, and kill 4 of them with each salvo, watching them wriggle and scream in agony and do backflips after each hits. I pull the pins of a couple of grenades and go full Rambo on their *****.

Then another guy comes up, TL goes up, and I unload a rocket launcher into a skitterling, and it just stands there, grinning with all its little teeth, side-stepping and taunting me. I go back to my Weaksauce Carebear persona down from Death horseman incarnate. Immersion-killing for sure. If at least that skitterling looked like Godzilla on stero´ds instead, with a different name, I'd find solace in my failure.

OMG, I just spit my coffee on my laptop screen. Frigging hilarious!

Festival
05-09-2014, 06:36 AM
I have a few theories how coming up with a patch works at Trion

1. They get a pile of things that people like then try to implement a patch that's completely opposite to what people like. People saying they like patch 1.505 must have been a real big red rag to them.

2. Everyone gets smashed then they throw around drunken ideas and play a game of dice to what gets implemented.

3. They play a game of D&D Tomb of horrors and get an inspiration by the cursed wish gem in there.
Then they pick out a player wish they corrupt to the extreme.

I've taken to attributing stuff to incompetence but i'm starting to lean over towards malice.

A-yup. Even incompetent developers, when told over and over and effin' OVER again that something sucks, will (eventually) get the message. That they actually ramped up the bulletsponginess tells me we're being trolled.

Tallon
05-09-2014, 06:49 AM
So... they applied a hotfix that caused the muderous pop-ups. Then they attempted to fix it by doing an update rollback... Only it looks like they rolled back to a date prior to the balancing. After blowing all my ammo to kill one ark-bug, I called it a night. Hopefully they will fix it before they call it a "weekend".

dramaQkarri
05-09-2014, 07:32 AM
Its times like these I am glad GTA 5 is coming out with their high life update. Maybe when I am done with that I will swing back around here to see if they re-re-fixed the game.

HIGH LIFE MAY 13 - FINALLY!
Although...not sure what I want to do except buy the 2nd apartment and some cars...that outta hold me for a couple hours.

dramaQkarri
05-09-2014, 07:34 AM
I've taken to attributing stuff to incompetence but i'm starting to lean over towards malice.

I've been suspecting this for awhile. There comes a point when incompetence is so absurd and impossibly pathetic that malice seems a much more likely explanation. Griefers are everywhere!

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
05-09-2014, 07:46 AM
AND WARMASTER is back to his BULLETSPONGE WAYS ALSO.....First one had 25 people in it last nite and crack his right arm @ 5:31 and we ended up at the end not even killing him.. WELL, GET THIS- rewards says 34 keycodes and 40 arkforge so I was like ok, but when I get back to overpass: my toon only has 2 keys and 19 arkforge WTF? I proceed to rally the TROOPS FOR THE NEXT WARMASTER, just too make sure my old eyes weren't fooling me: so I get like 42-44 people in and we beat him with about a minute and a half to spare and same thing REWARDS SHOW UP AND WHEN I LEAVE NOTHING????

wild liza
05-09-2014, 08:06 AM
Actually i think they should just make the prefix for TL10 enemies "Spongebob" and make all their textures yellow.
It would perfectly portray the hilarity of the situation while warning newcomers about what they can expect.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/strong-spongebob.gif

dramaQkarri
05-09-2014, 08:07 AM
AND WARMASTER is back to his BULLETSPONGE WAYS ALSO.....First one had 25 people in it last nite and crack his right arm @ 5:31 and we ended up at the end not even killing him.. WELL, GET THIS- rewards says 34 keycodes and 40 arkforge so I was like ok, but when I get back to overpass: my toon only has 2 keys and 19 arkforge WTF? I proceed to rally the TROOPS FOR THE NEXT WARMASTER, just too make sure my old eyes weren't fooling me: so I get like 42-44 people in and we beat him with about a minute and a half to spare and same thing REWARDS SHOW UP AND WHEN I LEAVE NOTHING????

Same story on PS3. We lost tho - even tho arm broke at 5 min left. Over 30 people in there. Top 20 scores were all over 270K. And we LOST. What now?
Also rewards screen said 11 keys for me, but after load screen I still had the 2 measly keys I already had when I went in there.

Pandur
05-09-2014, 08:09 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/strong-spongebob.gif

haha perfect.

wild liza
05-09-2014, 08:10 AM
i try my best LOL

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
05-09-2014, 09:49 AM
Same story on PS3. We lost tho - even tho arm broke at 5 min left. Over 30 people in there. Top 20 scores were all over 270K. And we LOST. What now?
Also rewards screen said 11 keys for me, but after load screen I still had the 2 measly keys I already had when I went in there.
yep it is still broke !!!

wartitan
05-09-2014, 10:29 AM
Boy...looks like a busy week at work this week was a blessing in disguise...see you guys on Monday!

Riz
05-09-2014, 10:33 AM
Wanted to see if they had fixed it already...

Went to Mine 99 for a Goldrusher and had my 5500 EGO friend at the side just to raise the TL to level 10. Found my Goldrusher! And used the same Legendary 7th Legion Nezumi SMG (EGO 5175) as yesterday. I'm 5225 EGO btw. Guess what? Still 350 rounds!!!! 5 reloads of my 70-bullet clip to put down 1 single enemy.

Trion, not fixed... Pathetic! You really expect people to walk to an ammobox 10x per conflict site? To spent 45 minutes for 10 rep points? I know Trick said: 'Longer, more fullfilling chase'. I think i speak for the majority when i say: 'Fook that shyte'.

drackiller
05-09-2014, 10:36 AM
Same story on PS3. We lost tho - even tho arm broke at 5 min left. Over 30 people in there. Top 20 scores were all over 270K. And we LOST. What now?
Also rewards screen said 11 keys for me, but after load screen I still had the 2 measly keys I already had when I went in there.

Isn`t Warmaster a 24 players map only !?

Deunan
05-09-2014, 10:51 AM
Isn`t Warmaster a 24 players map only !?You can get more inside by using your friends list.

Littleweasel
05-09-2014, 10:51 AM
its even worse in the co-op maps when it takes 5 clips to take down the shield of dark matter enemies then they phase out so they can still shoot you with invisible bullets and then phase back in so you can see them again once their shield have recharged.

was playing cronkite last night with 3 other friends and it took 500 rounds just to finally kill one dark matter sniper because of this.

Pandur
05-09-2014, 12:08 PM
Ok another thing. I did another minor arkfall on my own. I actually enjoyed those things solo(the only thing that kinda was meh is the rewards), it only got annoying when more people joined and it went to TL10.
Now it was always TL5 before 1.506 when i was solo a mild challenge not much, but fun.
With the new patch where it takes more players to scale it starts at TL2 making it a one shot faceroll solo.
Instead of making it so it scales less for lower ego players they just dumbed the TL completely.
So it's now faceroll if i solo it and way annoying if it goes to TL 10, way to go, good job.

dramaQkarri
05-09-2014, 12:26 PM
Ok another thing. I did another minor arkfall on my own. I actually enjoyed those things solo(the only thing that kinda was meh is the rewards), it only got annoying when more people joined and it went to TL10.
Now it was always TL5 before 1.506 when i was solo a mild challenge not much, but fun.
With the new patch where it takes more players to scale it starts at TL2 making it a one shot faceroll solo.
Instead of making it so it scales less for lower ego players they just dumbed the TL completely.
So it's now faceroll if i solo it and way annoying if it goes to TL 10, way to go, good job.

Just more evidence that they don't know how to make this open world level scaling work and NEVER SHOULD HAVE DONE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Pandur
05-09-2014, 01:33 PM
Ok another thing. I did another minor arkfall on my own. I actually enjoyed those things solo(the only thing that kinda was meh is the rewards), it only got annoying when more people joined and it went to TL10.
Now it was always TL5 before 1.506 when i was solo a mild challenge not much, but fun.
With the new patch where it takes more players to scale it starts at TL2 making it a one shot faceroll solo.
Instead of making it so it scales less for lower ego players they just dumbed the TL completely.
So it's now faceroll if i solo it and way annoying if it goes to TL 10, way to go, good job.

Slight correction there on my part. I meant minor arkbreak not arkfall, point remains the same though.

Irteip Zeugirdor
05-09-2014, 05:17 PM
Volge sieges are so much fun! :3


You don't say... Even The Afflicted swarm in North San Fran is a Cluster F. . You know the stage where you face DM Bullwarks only. There were like 20 of them in one single stage. Bullet spongy and all.

Bonehead
05-09-2014, 05:57 PM
Just more evidence that they don't know how to make this open world level scaling work and NEVER SHOULD HAVE DONE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I just wonder if that was the reason the "A" team abandoned scaling back in alpha.

Midori Oku
05-09-2014, 06:12 PM
You don't say... Even The Afflicted swarm in North San Fran is a Cluster F. . You know the stage where you face DM Bullwarks only. There were like 20 of them in one single stage. Bullet spongy and all.

I wasn't being sarcastic. :3

I personally like the way the game is currently, but I understand why others don't. Honestly, there should be two servers to choose from when you log in. Normal and Expert. However, I think the rewards should be better for those playing on the Expert server. It's only fair, right? Unfortunately this would never happen because it would make both sides happy.

Festival
05-09-2014, 06:21 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic. :3

I personally like the way the game is currently, but I understand why others don't. Honestly, there should be two servers to choose from when you log in. Normal and Expert. However, I think the rewards should be better for those playing on the Expert server. It's only fair, right? Unfortunately this would never happen because it would make both sides happy.

Better rewards just because someone has a greater tolerance for abject tedium? LOL, no.

It's not like this bullet sponge buffoonery actually makes the game more difficult.

Festival
05-09-2014, 06:21 PM
I just wonder if that was the reason the "A" team abandoned scaling back in alpha.

Y'think...? =P

Midori Oku
05-09-2014, 07:48 PM
Better rewards just because someone has a greater tolerance for abject tedium? LOL, no.

It's not like this bullet sponge buffoonery actually makes the game more difficult.

More time spent should equal better rewards. For it not to be difficult, people sure are complaining about it. It's not like a lot of other shooters don't make the enemies tank more damage. Halo 2 is a very good example of this. The Elites on Legendary would take mag after mag of headshots from a battle rifle, yet it's less than one mag on normal. Yet people swear to this day it was one of the hardest, if not the hardest Halo campaigns on Legendary yet. On Defiance, the enemies now have more health/shields, do slightly more damage, and have some new attacks/abilities. I don't see how that's not a difficulty increase, even if it's a slight one.

Difficult - Needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand. Characterized by or causing hardships or problems.

Lets see. It may not require much more skill outside of dodging more enemies at once since more spawn, but it surely requires more effort to accomplish. And yes, it causes hardships and problems. Yeah, I guess it's not difficult.

Deunan
05-09-2014, 07:55 PM
However, I think the rewards should be better for those playing on the Expert server. It's only fair, right?No. Just because your weapons do at least 50% more damage than the players only 500-700 EGO rating points below you and your health and shields give you similar advantage so that it's markedly easier for you to kill the mobs faster doesn't entitle you to better rewards, and that's essentially all the game has done. The scaling of the weapons and gear that drops for you is reward enough.

Festival
05-09-2014, 08:00 PM
"Difficult" in this context (that of a skill-based game) centers on requiring more skill in order to succeed. Simply having to pump a ludicrous amount of ammunition into an enemy doesn't require more skill, just more patience. We're not doing much of anything differently than before DLC5, we're just doing it longer. It may, as you say, be slightly more "difficult" in terms of having to dodge a bit more, and a handful of enemy types have one or two more tricks, but that's it.

Time spent is irrelevant. I could walk to every encounter instead of drive. That'd take longer, too. But the only thing more "difficult" about it would be trying to stay awake. Kinda like this bullet sponge rubbish makes the game. I have literally nodded off mid-fight. I am not kidding or speaking metaphorically,

If you actually enjoy blowing through multiple magazines to kill a minion, then for all I fond that utterly bizarre, that's your prerogative. But I suggest getting used to it on largely empty servers...because I have no doubt in my mind the large majority of players think it blows.

Midori Oku
05-09-2014, 08:09 PM
No. Just because your weapons do at least 50% more damage than the players only 500-700 EGO rating points below you and your health and shields give you similar advantage so that it's markedly easier for you to kill the mobs faster doesn't entitle you to better rewards, and that's essentially all the game has done. The scaling of the weapons and gear that drops for you is reward enough.

I never said that the low EGO players could not play on that server. If they are willing to put up with what they do now, they would also get better rewards. Keep in mind when I say better rewards I don't mean constantly getting legendary weapons. I'm talking about giving players slightly more keycodes, scrip, EXP, arkforge and salvage, and only allowing the purples from enemies to drop on the expert server. Basically enough to make up for the extra time spent on events. All of this is hypothetical anyway.


If you actually enjoy blowing through multiple magazines to kill a minion, then for all I fond that utterly bizarre, that's your prerogative. But I suggest getting used to it on largely empty servers...because I have no doubt in my mind the large majority of players think it blows.

I do, but you also have to understand that I'm a glutton for punishment in video games. If I can choose to play on the hardest difficulty of a game, I always do. Also, playing solo is fine with me, but I do have a clan where everyone within it also loves the way the game is at the moment. Even the people who are below EGO 1000 love it. I guess we are an odd group of people then?

Bonehead
05-09-2014, 08:51 PM
Next boss for Defiance?

http://cdn.guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/the_sea_sponge-267x214.jpg

Festival
05-09-2014, 09:35 PM
I do, but you also have to understand that I'm a glutton for punishment in video games. If I can choose to play on the hardest difficulty of a game, I always do.

*shrug* I always crank stuff to the top, too. Maybe not at the very first, as depending on the game, I sometimes ramp up to it as I start learning the ropes and not sucking (as much). But I do seek out challenges in video games.

But I have to reiterate: Bullet Sponge Defiance isn't hard, it's just time-consuming (to the point of sheer tedium for me, but I realize that's utterly subjective). If they wanted to make it genuinely hard (and far more immersive), they'd have just made enemy weapons as dangerous as ours were, pre-DLC5. Presto: instant challenge (as well as something at least vaguely realistic...).

3rdpig
05-09-2014, 10:23 PM
You can argue that mindless tedium and bullet sponge difficulty is what you love and all you're doing is missing the real point. And that point is that slaughtering the F2P nubs and making them rage quit before they can spend money it is not a wise decision.

Good God, they've already made the game far more complex than it was by adding several new forms of currency, grenade pickups, stims, spikes, a dozen or more different enemy levels and names, armor plates, armor boxes and requiring a mix of nano weapons and fast load out switching to be effective.

The open world needs to go back to the easy, casual, fun style of play it was before The Great Bullet Sponge Patch or the likelihood that we'll be playing Defiance after the show season ends diminishes significantly.

Bonehead
05-09-2014, 10:24 PM
Keep in mind too, if you are around 5400 ego or greater the game only changed from stupid easy to regular easy.

Odessa
05-10-2014, 02:16 AM
Keep in mind too, if you are around 5400 ego or greater the game only changed from stupid easy to regular easy.

I dunno, bones. I was getting downed by Warriors tonight like there was no tomorrow. THe Motherload expert map? OMG. The pure.grind. Guh! It was just getting better too. I almost feel as if I'm in some abusive relationship where the 'I'm sorry' part is still a ways off.

Riz
05-10-2014, 02:48 AM
The Motherlode and 101 Explosions are now the easiest of the expert maps. Really! Cloak and run m8's! You really think i can be bothered killing all those bulletsponges? Nah... Me and a good team of clanmates do 101 within 25 minutes and we're out, successful. And no i won't post tactics and weapons used here, i don't want it screwed up.

As for the open world.. Mt Tam is the only reasonable place to play together with lower EGO friends and clanmates. The whole world should be like that. And of course i understand that a Dark Matter should require a little more bullets then a mutant, but still.. You catch my drift. That other 'expert' server that Midori Oku is on about could be easily implanted on the current servers! You already have 3 choices at which coop you want. They should just do the same if you want to re-do the Nim-fight or Jackleg Joe. Expert instances to choose from.

And HALO is not a right example to get a point across on difficulty. Yes, hard mode was kinda bulletsponging but not UNfair! HALO did not scale enemies to your level and then gave you weapons 75% of your power and pointed you towards paid upgrades. HALO doesnt make less experienced players useless. Defiance does do this. They scale enemies to you (or even worse if youre with more ppl around) and then handicaps you on purpose leaving you with 2 real choices. Die a lot or pay up. Also Defiance does make less experienced players useless... In fact as it is now, low EGO's ARE useless. They know it, we know it, Trion knows it. Great promise for the F2P experience right? You come in to play and are useless for the next couple of months. With this system the F2P will fail epicly. Many noobs wont last longer then a week... Lets say until they reach Marin.

Manstan
05-10-2014, 07:04 AM
Keep in mind too, if you are around 5400 ego or greater the game only be changed from stupid easy to regular easy.

LOL love it ;)

BJWyler
05-10-2014, 08:13 AM
"Difficult" in this context (that of a skill-based game) centers on requiring more skill in order to succeed. Simply having to pump a ludicrous amount of ammunition into an enemy doesn't require more skill, just more patience. We're not doing much of anything differently than before DLC5, we're just doing it longer. It may, as you say, be slightly more "difficult" in terms of having to dodge a bit more, and a handful of enemy types have one or two more tricks, but that's it.

Time spent is irrelevant. I could walk to every encounter instead of drive. That'd take longer, too. But the only thing more "difficult" about it would be trying to stay awake. Kinda like this bullet sponge rubbish makes the game. I have literally nodded off mid-fight. I am not kidding or speaking metaphorically,

If you actually enjoy blowing through multiple magazines to kill a minion, then for all I fond that utterly bizarre, that's your prerogative. But I suggest getting used to it on largely empty servers...because I have no doubt in my mind the large majority of players think it blows.


You can argue that mindless tedium and bullet sponge difficulty is what you love and all you're doing is missing the real point. And that point is that slaughtering the F2P nubs and making them rage quit before they can spend money it is not a wise decision.

Good God, they've already made the game far more complex than it was by adding several new forms of currency, grenade pickups, stims, spikes, a dozen or more different enemy levels and names, armor plates, armor boxes and requiring a mix of nano weapons and fast load out switching to be effective.

The open world needs to go back to the easy, casual, fun style of play it was before The Great Bullet Sponge Patch or the likelihood that we'll be playing Defiance after the show season ends diminishes significantly.

True. Sad, but true.

Dangit, now I'll have that Metallica song stuck in my head all day

Dracontius
05-10-2014, 12:33 PM
This is silly. Give me 1 other high ego player and we are fighting for our lives. I thought it was working reasonably well, but no let's jack up the shields of the enemies. Let's jack up the damage enemies are doing.

This is getting ridiculous.

vs bombers: the 5 D's - Dodge Dip Dive Duck and DODGE! - Believe it or not, they do take breaks from firing and you can get bursts of fmg done within those breaks and clear them out fairly well TL10 solo.

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
05-10-2014, 02:44 PM
some places it works awesome....and some places bots are GODS....ON ANOTHER NOTE WARMASTER IS STILL NOT PAYING KEYS OR ARKFORGE!!!

Irteip Zeugirdor
05-10-2014, 03:00 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic. :3

I personally like the way the game is currently, but I understand why others don't. Honestly, there should be two servers to choose from when you log in. Normal and Expert. However, I think the rewards should be better for those playing on the Expert server. It's only fair, right? Unfortunately this would never happen because it would make both sides happy.


So you're saying people who complaints about the scaling mess and the Cluster F problem ( Which is like 90 percent of the population in this game) should be labeled inexperienced and have the option to go to an "easy" level server where scaling doesn't reach level 10 or doesn't exist at all and the other 10 percent which would be labeled as experts (including you) should also have the option to play in a so called expert server. Just because you like a mess doesn't mean it stops being mess anyway. But i'm not gonna get sucked into your subtle and sublime way of saying "I'm Better than you". I guess it's just a matter of perspectives. I'd like think that the only EGO I have is the one that this game offers.

SethC
05-10-2014, 03:49 PM
Island of Lost soldiers wasn't as bad as the motherload. They seriously beefed up those 99ers though. It takes overcharge + damage spike to effectively mow through those suckers. Maybe it's because I don't have an effective electric gun ? The warriors are nice and easy, take a gun with high crit to their butts and they're finished. :D

Midori Oku
05-10-2014, 03:59 PM
So you're saying people who complaints about the scaling mess and the Cluster F problem ( Which is like 90 percent of the population in this game) should be labeled inexperienced and have the option to go to an "easy" level server where scaling doesn't reach level 10 or doesn't exist at all and the other 10 percent which would be labeled as experts (including you) should also have the option to play in a so called expert server. Just because you like a mess doesn't mean it stops being mess anyway. But i'm not gonna get sucked into your subtle and sublime way of saying "I'm Better than you". I guess it's just a matter of perspectives. I'd like think that the only EGO I have is the one that this game offers.

I don't exactly know how you got the "I'm saying I'm better than you" part. It's not what I was aiming for if it seemed like it. All I was saying is people should have an option. If you like the way it is now play on the expert server. If you like the way it was before, or a somewhat nerfed version of the server now, play on the the normal. People who like "bulletsponges" would be happy, and those who don't would be happy.

Manstan
05-10-2014, 09:41 PM
I don't think the dozen people on that server would be happy with sieges then. But the rest of us will be having a great time on the nerfed server.

B_Draco
05-11-2014, 02:43 AM
I don't think the dozen people on that server would be happy with sieges then. But the rest of us will be having a great time on the nerfed server.

If two servers like that were made, Dracontius would be alone on the expert server, the rest of us on the "nerfed" server lol.

Irteip Zeugirdor
05-13-2014, 03:30 PM
I don't exactly know how you got the "I'm saying I'm better than you" part. It's not what I was aiming for if it seemed like it. All I was saying is people should have an option. If you like the way it is now play on the expert server. If you like the way it was before, or a somewhat nerfed version of the server now, play on the the normal. People who like "bulletsponges" would be happy, and those who don't would be happy.


Well ok... Let's say you weren't egotistical about it. And I apologize for that. But again..You're advocating for the 1% of the entire gaming population of this game including yourself who likes they way the game it is right now. If you think bullet sponge is a good thing and you love it, well good for you. But like I said before. Just because you are a sucker for a good challenge and you see it as a challenge and not as a bug/glitch/problem as 99.9% of us do. That doesn't make it stop being a problem... I'm sorry..This is not a choice..This is a problem that the devs of this game must deal with and not to leave it as it is just because a diminute amount of people who plays this game likes to have this problem. And whether your did not intend to sound egotistical.. To claim a server just for you and your 1%, that automatically makes it and egotistical statement.

Deunan
05-13-2014, 05:12 PM
But again..You're advocating for the 1% of the entire gaming population of this game including yourself who likes they way the game it is right now. If you think bullet sponge is a good thing and you love it, well good for you. But like I said before. Just because you are a sucker for a good challenge and you see it as a challenge and not as a bug/glitch/problem as 99.9% of us do......To claim a server just for you and your 1%, that automatically makes it and egotistical statement99.9% of statistics are made up. Thanks for proving that point. There are a lot of EGO 5000 plus players on the servers and even if there was no dynamic scaling in the game a significant portion of the low EGO players don't stick around much longer once they've completed the storyline missions. Further, if you read Midori's posts carefully you would note that Midori's clan mates that are low EGO generally also like the higher difficulty level.

Lot's of MMO's dedicate large portions of their server farms to supporting content that is meant for higher level characters only. This is nothing new. If the server population for an expert version of the game is small then it wouldn't require the same server resources as a standard version. Engaging in hyperbole by calling a player's suggestion egotistical doesn't magically make it so, particularly when that assertion is only supported by fabricated statistics and false assumptions about allocation of server resources.

I don't think it's a good idea to divide MMO populations by difficulty level though. Good MMO design brings players of all ranges together to the same open world. It's part of what makes a great MMO experience. The norm is to simply level gate map areas within the same virtual world supported by the servers but that would require dramatically changing a relatively small open world map, and it's not workable because all the mission story lines take you all over the map.

The devs need to find a balanced approach to dynamic scaling that is acceptable to the entire spectrum of players that they have yet to achieve. I honestly don't have a lot of faith that they can do that but maybe they'll get it right after a few more tries. If they don't, it's highly probable that the free-to-play launch will be a disaster.

Midori Oku
05-13-2014, 05:37 PM
I still don't see how it's egotistical. How does liking a harder difficulty make anyone egotistical? It's just how they like to play. Just as others like to play on lower difficulties. Does that mean they suck? Absolutely not!

Odessa
05-13-2014, 05:47 PM
I still don't see how it's egotistical. How does liking a harder difficulty make anyone egotistical? It's just how they like to play. Just as others like to play on lower difficulties. Does that mean they suck? Absolutely not!

I agree. If a game has a harder difficulty achievement I cringe. I play for the story, for the fun. To me its casual and enjoyment. That being said, I have actually enjoyed the ramped up difficulty. Not the extent (nor the doubling of enemies) but there was a moment where it was challenging and yet doable in most situations (minor arkfalls and volge sieges the exception). It gave me a reason to actually care about the Nanos and what what works well on enemies. I'm still trying to fine tune that one. So count me in as a casual player who actually has been enjoying the game's difficulty. I am hesitant to give it a thumbs up simply because they have a ways to go to make it enjoyable in anything volge related.

I've played as a lower level toon and have been leveling up like crazy. This is good and bad. Good in that my weapons are being kicked up quickly to 20. Bad in that it's an artificial boost, which takes away from the gradual progression of the learning curve as well as taking away the new player experience and creating a new player hell.

Irteip Zeugirdor
05-14-2014, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Deunan


99.9% of statistics are made up. Thanks for proving that point.And you thought I put up those numbers knowing that I Made those up??. Well Of Course!!!!. Do I have the specific stats of who likes the game the way it is right now who doesn't like the way it is right now??? Of Course Not!!! . I don't work for Trion to have access to that kind of information.Do you have them?? Do you work for Trion?? .. I'm just trying to make a point of how the VAST majority of players don't like the mechanics of the game as they're right now. And That's an irrefutable FACT, whether the numbers are right or wrong it doesn't matter.


Engaging in hyperbole by calling a player's suggestion egotistical doesn't magically make it so, particularly when that assertion is only supported by fabricated statistics and false assumptions about allocation of server resources.Like, Seriously??? You're making it sound like I had an Evil purpose or a hidden agenda behind it. And yes. I still think it's an egotistical statement. Whether was intentional or not, consciously or unconsciously. I don't know. And If it wasn't I already apologized. But it sounded egotistical nonetheless and you prove my point in your next quote.



I don't think it's a good idea to divide MMO populations by difficulty level though. Good MMO design brings players of all ranges "TOGETHER" to the same open world. It's part of what makes a great MMO experience. The norm is to simply level gate map areas within the same virtual world supported by the servers but that would require dramatically changing a relatively small open world map, and it's not workable because all the mission story lines take you all over the map.Exactly.....



The devs need to find a balanced approach to dynamic scaling that is acceptable to the entire spectrum of players that they have yet to achieve. I honestly don't have a lot of faith that they can do that but maybe they'll get it right after a few more tries. If they don't, it's highly probable that the free-to-play launch will be a disaster.
Agreed 100%. And That's a very, very accurate number.

Riz
05-14-2014, 04:17 PM
Something actually went right this time with patch 1.509. I logged on a good 2 hours after the servers went offline today and found myself almost alone on the PS3/EU-server. Waiting for the contracts to renew i looked at the map to see what to do in the meantime.

VOLGE SIEGE in the Mutant District. Nice! Haven't played a Volge Siege in ages! Well... Since DLC 5 only once + a few stages after which i cowardly but logically fled away. Volge were going to be nerfed right? So let's see how they managed to fook this up this time. And drove off to Mutant District.

Man, i was wrong!

At arrival i was all alone, TL 5 and i started. Didn't bother to wait for others, after all it was a test. Volge were nasty, mean, challenging and persistant to kill me. But at no point i found the fight unfair and frustating. My bullets did damage, and although i was greatly outnumbered i managed to avoid most hits by keeping in motion. This time Troopers took their turns to launch those ground pounding moves and there were 4 bombers instead of the usual 8. And not all 4 were able to hit me when out of sight, i only had to face 2 at the time. Which is fine since Bombers are the ones that hit hardest, but are also easiest to kill. Then 2 other guys arrived. Probably low EGO, they died fast and a lot and although the TL went to 10 i could still lay some Volge down and was feeling like my bullets actually had impact. After a minute or 2 those guys left again and the TL dropped to 5, worked fine. I finished the siege with 34k points and 2 downs. I had a challenging time and had to be sharp the whole 15 minutes as i was being chased by 2 Viscera's at the time (is fine), about 6 Troopers taking their turns on hitting me instead of all at the same time (is fine) and only 2 Bombers to deal with (is fine). I had a blast, Trion! Thanks for bringing back good and exciting Volge Sieges and getting rid of that ridiculous bulletsponge that required 2 magazines for 1 single Viscera!

I enjoyed it :)

Nefarious
05-14-2014, 05:23 PM
Looks like with the new patch it added... * Hitting enemies in their weak spots now avoids the regular damage reduction from Armor Plates.*

If that doesn't relieve the difficulty for some players then I don't know what will.

Manstan
05-14-2014, 05:34 PM
Looks like with the new patch it added... * Hitting enemies in their weak spots now avoids the regular damage reduction from Armor Plates.*

If that doesn't relieve the difficulty for some players then I don't know what will.

Did a world of good for me, I'm 5 for 7 with most weapons ;)

OttawaREDBLACKS
05-14-2014, 05:37 PM
not that difficult to turn on damage numbers right? Fairly certain mine was on day one before I even shot anything.

drackiller
05-15-2014, 12:30 AM
One of the weapons that i`m leveling, (i wont say the name) was doing critical damage around 200K on the Hellion.
I was insta killing Hellbug warriors most of the times and sometimes with 2 to 3 shots at best.

I LOVE IT :)

Metaxan
05-20-2014, 07:13 AM
Very simple, unless there are a ton of people, I leave the arkfall , swarm or whatever when high ego players push the threat level up. My effectiveness drops, deaths increase and rewards can zero out. What's the point of staying?

drackiller
05-20-2014, 07:18 AM
Very simple, unless there are a ton of people, I leave the arkfall , swarm or whatever when high ego players push the threat level up. My effectiveness drops, deaths increase and rewards can zero out. What's the point of staying?
You know, the sentiment is mutual. We the high level players also want to do our business without wasting precious time.