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Scapes
05-13-2014, 07:07 PM
Ark hunters,

We've been hearing your concerns about the irritation of trying to burn down an Infected Hulker in Kenn Farm before the stage ends and they despawn, preventing completion of the Snake Bite pursuit. If it isn't obvious, we don't want to make it impossible to complete said pursuit. Here's what's up for those unaware of this issue.

Currently, the required number of monster kills to pass a stage can't adjust based on the scaling mechanic introduced with Arktech Revolution which is (situationally) doubling the number of monsters. This means that, as you've probably experienced, sufficient mobs are killed to advance the stage before all monsters are killed. Since the other monsters that spawn in Kenn Farm are all easier to kill, downing an Infected Hulker is very difficult to pull off. There's also a typo in the Snake Bite pursuit that targets Apex Infected Hulkers when Formidable Infected Hulkers are actually required, but this is only a typo and downing Formidable ones works just fine.

We're working on a change to how these siege events progress through stages. Instead of a minimum required number of monster kills, each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed. This will definitely prevent the Infected Hulkers from despawning before you and your fellow ark hunters can take them down. (We'll also fix the typo in the pursuit.) The window for this adjustment is our next major game client patch on June 4.

Thanks for your patience while we address this frustrating issue!

B_Draco
05-13-2014, 07:11 PM
Ark hunters,

We've been hearing your concerns about the irritation of trying to burn down an Infected Hulker in Kenn Farm before the stage ends and they despawn, preventing completion of the Snake Bite pursuit. If it isn't obvious, we don't want to make it impossible to complete said pursuit. Here's what's up for those unaware of this issue.

Currently, the required number of monster kills to pass a stage can't adjust based on the scaling mechanic introduced with Arktech Revolution which is (situationally) doubling the number of monsters. This means that, as you've probably experienced, sufficient mobs are killed to advance the stage before all monsters are killed. Since the other monsters that spawn in Kenn Farm are all easier to kill, downing an Infected Hulker is very difficult to pull off. There's also a typo in the Snake Bite pursuit that targets Apex Infected Hulkers when Formidable Infected Hulkers are actually required, but this is only a typo and downing Formidable ones works just fine.

We're working on a change to how these siege events progress through stages. Instead of a minimum required number of monster kills, each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed. This will definitely prevent the Infected Hulkers from despawning before you and your fellow ark hunters can take them down. (We'll also fix the typo in the pursuit.) The window for this adjustment is our next major game client patch on June 4.

Thanks for your patience while we address this frustrating issue!

Awesomeness!!! Good news for those who just can't quite get the snake to bite.:cool: Ok bad joke, anyway thank you Scapes. :o

Etaew
05-13-2014, 07:11 PM
Thanks for this, glad it's being addressed and I am totally looking forward the carnage that is going to ensue when you have to defeat all enemies in a stage. It will be glorious :)

B_Draco
05-13-2014, 07:12 PM
Thanks for this, glad it's being addressed and I am totally looking forward the carnage that is going to ensue when you have to defeat all enemies in a stage. It will be glorious :)

Six hulkers to kill, WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! In the later rounds obviously lol, otherwise 2-4.

Bonehead
05-13-2014, 07:14 PM
Thanks Scapes.

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/c/8/c8a9f-YouDaManJesus.jpg

Bonehead
05-13-2014, 07:15 PM
Awesomeness!!! Good news for those who just can't quite get the snake to bite.:cool: Ok bad joke, anyway thank you Scapes. :o

It wasn't that bad really.

Bonehead
05-13-2014, 07:15 PM
Thanks for this, glad it's being addressed and I am totally looking forward the carnage that is going to ensue when you have to defeat all enemies in a stage. It will be glorious :)

Amen brother!

Festival
05-13-2014, 07:19 PM
Great way to handle it! I've been pretty darn critical of things since DLC5, so I gotta give credit where it's due. Good job, Trion!

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
05-13-2014, 07:22 PM
thank you for relaying this to the community scapes, and thanks to everyone who put this together. very good news

ironcladtrash
05-13-2014, 07:39 PM
I really appreciate this being looked into, but I need throw out a red flag. If "each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed" this could present a problem when monsters play hide and go seek. Sometimes they can either disappear or get stuck in a wall where we can't reach. I actually remember Trick saying before that is the reason why they ended the waves before every monster was killed so we aren't hunting around trying to find where the last monster is on each wave.

It might be a better and easier solution if it was just changed to the formidable Hulkers so that way we can also get credit on the Expert maps.

SethC
05-13-2014, 07:49 PM
That's great news, I'm finally glad this will be addressed. It will be sometime, but I'm in no rush; take your time ! :D

Whenever I get back I'm hoping a lot of other things will be fixed as well. Keep it up !! :o

Ashlocke
05-13-2014, 07:59 PM
Instead of a minimum required number of monster kills, each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pl52xo0ox8

spweasel
05-13-2014, 08:44 PM
Currently, the required number of monster kills to pass a stage can't adjust based on the scaling mechanic introduced with Arktech Revolution which is (situationally) doubling the number of monsters.

Couldn't you just revamp the doubling mechanic? Right now an even Threat Level's double spawns break a huge, huge number of Scripts in the game while providing very little extra legitimate challenge. Replacing the double spawns with something like a passive 1.5x Health & Shield, 1.25x Damage boost to enemies would retain much of the added "difficulty" but not break the game.

Just a thought.

drackiller
05-14-2014, 12:12 AM
I really appreciate this being looked into, but I need throw out a red flag. If "each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed" this could present a problem when monsters play hide and go seek. Sometimes they can either disappear or get stuck in a wall where we can't reach. I actually remember Trick saying before that is the reason why they ended the waves before every monster was killed so we aren't hunting around trying to find where the last monster is on each wave.

It might be a better and easier solution if it was just changed to the formidable Hulkers so that way we can also get credit on the Expert maps.
I was thinking the same thing about the sieges, best in my opinion, is that the wave only finishes when all the hulkers are dead regardless of the minions being dead or not.

Lucent
05-14-2014, 07:44 AM
Thank you for finally addressing a very frustrating issue for some.

I got quite lucky and got mine within the first couple days but since then, I've had terrible luck with seeing Hulkers go down. I know there will be quite a few very thrilled people who have been annoyed for a while about this.

dramaQkarri
05-14-2014, 07:56 AM
I really appreciate this being looked into, but I need throw out a red flag. If "each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed" this could present a problem when monsters play hide and go seek. Sometimes they can either disappear or get stuck in a wall where we can't reach. I actually remember Trick saying before that is the reason why they ended the waves before every monster was killed so we aren't hunting around trying to find where the last monster is on each wave.

It might be a better and easier solution if it was just changed to the formidable Hulkers so that way we can also get credit on the Expert maps.

I'll be at the ready with my BMG if that happens.

I'm looking forward to this!! Just to clarify, June 4 for EVERYONE? Not just PC? Cuz that is the F2P release date for PC, not consoles...

There I go again, raining on everyone's parade.

Zugo
05-14-2014, 08:39 AM
This is great news, thank you.

but, June 4th?

ironcladtrash
05-14-2014, 08:46 AM
I'll be at the ready with my BMG if that happens.


I remember a long time ago this happening to me at the bath house and nothing could get the Volge stuck in the wall, including BMGs, fire grenades or explosives. Different Sieges but same concept. I think that was the problem with when the quarry used to get stuck too but I never really go to the quarry ones to know for sure. They changed and tweak to sieges multiple times to make it so lower scores advance the rounds.

It's great they are trying to help us out but I really want to avoid history repeating itself. I fear this change will make it so a lot of sieges and incursions get stuck.

alienstookmybeer
05-14-2014, 08:55 AM
Ironclad brings up some good points.

This is just gonna be bad for Volge sieges. The way they are now many stages just get stalled out because the arkhunters are overrun by viscera and troopers, and the stage is only progessed when enough troopers are finally picked off to get the points needed to advance to the next stage. I'm envisioning only heavily populated incursion sieges getting past stage 6 or 7 after this change. Trying to get 20k at a regular volge siege after this will also be nearly impossible.

Pandur
05-14-2014, 09:01 AM
I hope they are gonna fix the amount of Volge at sieges before the F2P patch. It's gonna be horrible if they don't no matter what.

dramaQkarri
05-14-2014, 09:14 AM
I hope they are gonna fix the amount of Volge at sieges before the F2P patch. It's gonna be horrible if they don't no matter what.

Oh GOD we'll be lucky to get past stage two! Hadn't thought about that. Since the afflicted and volge sieges are so different anyway, maybe the change will only be for afflicted. I wonder if it will apply at Diablo as well?

Zugo
05-14-2014, 09:34 AM
I always thought it was stupid how stages progress when enemies were still alive. If we don't kill all the bad guys why should we advance? Never made any sense to me, it's like the Volge decide to up and leave after kicking our tails.

Scapes
05-14-2014, 09:55 AM
I'm looking forward to this!! Just to clarify, June 4 for EVERYONE? Not just PC?

All platforms, yes.

dramaQkarri
05-14-2014, 10:03 AM
All platforms, yes.

WOOT! thanks!

Odessa
05-14-2014, 10:14 AM
The Volge sieges and I have a love-hate relationship. I love to participate in them but loathe the sheer amount of hard hitting enemies they throw at us with little to no cover. I actually watch the damage bar JUST to hope that I can make it through the round without losing my points from the volley of bombs being chucked at me.

Scapes, will the rule of thumb for ALL sieges be level ends when all enemies are killed?

Scapes
05-14-2014, 10:49 AM
The Volge sieges and I have a love-hate relationship. I love to participate in them but loathe the sheer amount of hard hitting enemies they throw at us with little to no cover. I actually watch the damage bar JUST to hope that I can make it through the round without losing my points from the volley of bombs being chucked at me.

Scapes, will the rule of thumb for ALL sieges be level ends when all enemies are killed?

We are planning to make all sieges follow this new mechanic, yes. And yes, we anticipate that a side effect will be a change in how ark hunters prioritize targets and focus fire.

Odessa
05-14-2014, 11:07 AM
We are planning to make all sieges follow this new mechanic, yes. And yes, we anticipate that a side effect will be a change in how ark hunters prioritize targets and focus fire.

Alrighty then. I think I need to mug a Raider Rioter for their shield. Nothing gets through that sucker. Thank you for clarifying.

Amack
05-14-2014, 11:13 AM
We are planning to make all sieges follow this new mechanic, yes. And yes, we anticipate that a side effect will be a change in how ark hunters prioritize targets and focus fire.

Most interesting. This should help multiple issues. Nice.

Lucent
05-14-2014, 11:16 AM
Luckily, the bonus for completing rounds is miniscule compared to all the teamwork points you are about to be getting! Rather than trying to group together at the south entrance of Kenn Farm, we can spread out across all the points and work in small packs instead of one giant lag fest.

Odessa
05-14-2014, 11:29 AM
Luckily, the bonus for completing rounds is miniscule compared to all the teamwork points you are about to be getting! Rather than trying to group together at the south entrance of Kenn Farm, we can spread out across all the points and work in small packs instead of one giant lag fest.

I usually hop around and listen for the "Hulker" shout out to stop elsewhere so that people can get their kills. It's going to be nice to not have to worry about killing too many infected so that people who do not have the pursuit can get it. Maybe we'll even see other players...

squidgod2000
05-14-2014, 11:33 AM
I really appreciate this being looked into, but I need throw out a red flag. If "each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed" this could present a problem when monsters play hide and go seek. Sometimes they can either disappear or get stuck in a wall where we can't reach. I actually remember Trick saying before that is the reason why they ended the waves before every monster was killed so we aren't hunting around trying to find where the last monster is on each wave.

It might be a better and easier solution if it was just changed to the formidable Hulkers so that way we can also get credit on the Expert maps.

Came here to post exactly this.

squidgod2000
05-14-2014, 11:35 AM
I always thought it was stupid how stages progress when enemies were still alive. If we don't kill all the bad guys why should we advance? Never made any sense to me, it's like the Volge decide to up and leave after kicking our tails.

It makes sense for the afflicted sieges. The control points spray the vaccine into the air when the stage ends, which cures/kills the remaining afflicted. Never made a lot of sense for the Volge, however.

squidgod2000
05-14-2014, 11:36 AM
I hope they are gonna fix the amount of Volge at sieges before the F2P patch. It's gonna be horrible if they don't no matter what.

Yeah, the sheer number of Viscera that can spawn, especially at Quarry, would make Stage 10 an impossible goal.

BJWyler
05-15-2014, 05:04 AM
Ironclad brings up some good points.

This is just gonna be bad for Volge sieges. The way they are now many stages just get stalled out because the arkhunters are overrun by viscera and troopers, and the stage is only progessed when enough troopers are finally picked off to get the points needed to advance to the next stage. I'm envisioning only heavily populated incursion sieges getting past stage 6 or 7 after this change. Trying to get 20k at a regular volge siege after this will also be nearly impossible.


I hope they are gonna fix the amount of Volge at sieges before the F2P patch. It's gonna be horrible if they don't no matter what.

This and that. As others mentioned, one of the issues that caused the changes to the current system in the first place were the stages stalling out. There are still many balancing issues that need to be addressed for this change to be effective elsewhere in the world - and the number one thing that needs to be done is to eliminate the double spawns at TL10. This above all else, will probably put the game a better place for players of all skill and EGO levels, especially with Volge encounters, and the Hulker encounters in Expert Co-ops.

HeatherQc
05-15-2014, 06:31 PM
Ark hunters,

We've been hearing your concerns about the irritation of trying to burn down an Infected Hulker in Kenn Farm before the stage ends and they despawn, preventing completion of the Snake Bite pursuit. If it isn't obvious, we don't want to make it impossible to complete said pursuit. Here's what's up for those unaware of this issue.

Currently, the required number of monster kills to pass a stage can't adjust based on the scaling mechanic introduced with Arktech Revolution which is (situationally) doubling the number of monsters. This means that, as you've probably experienced, sufficient mobs are killed to advance the stage before all monsters are killed. Since the other monsters that spawn in Kenn Farm are all easier to kill, downing an Infected Hulker is very difficult to pull off. There's also a typo in the Snake Bite pursuit that targets Apex Infected Hulkers when Formidable Infected Hulkers are actually required, but this is only a typo and downing Formidable ones works just fine.

We're working on a change to how these siege events progress through stages. Instead of a minimum required number of monster kills, each stage will only advance when all monsters in that wave are killed. This will definitely prevent the Infected Hulkers from despawning before you and your fellow ark hunters can take them down. (We'll also fix the typo in the pursuit.) The window for this adjustment is our next major game client patch on June 4.

Thanks for your patience while we address this frustrating issue!

You can also STOP having double enemies at TL 10!

Deirachel
05-15-2014, 07:58 PM
Heather, you can quit spamming the double spawn thing outside of threads which are discussions of the Threat Level system. I'm sure they know quite a few people want them to stop the doubling... and it actually hurts the cause. (Keep it where appropriate and they might listen. Spam threads about changing siege mechanics? They are going to ignore it eventually.)

Deunan
05-15-2014, 08:03 PM
It's great they are trying to help us out but I really want to avoid history repeating itself. I fear this change will make it so a lot of sieges and incursions get stuck.This. I think that Trick was the lead developer when they changed the mechanics of Siege wave progression to address this very problem with Volge Sieges so I'm surprised that this has become the solution when they couldn't fix the actual problem before. Unless they've managed to resolve this issue now, Sieges will stall on occasion. It's inevitable.

They should do what others have suggested for the Hulkers and make Hulker only waves like they made Bulwark only waves for the Chinatown Siege. Oh well.

Bonehead
05-15-2014, 08:49 PM
They should do what others have suggested for the Hulkers and make Hulker only waves like they made Bulwark only waves for the Chinatown Siege. Oh well.

Yea, I don't know why, but they just don't do simple.

Deunan
05-15-2014, 09:04 PM
Yea, I don't know why, but they just don't do simple.In all fairness the way their going to do it is simple. It was also broken and if they never fixed the issue it will be no less broken than it was before.

DIS
05-15-2014, 09:55 PM
Nevermind.

Bentu
05-15-2014, 10:01 PM
Don't see what the problem is, I got the achievement weeks ago, you just need to get up early.

tactics
05-15-2014, 10:03 PM
a lil 2 late. I completed it the hard way, in the middle of the night when all the damn lil kids r asleep.

drackiller
05-16-2014, 12:52 AM
Nevermind.

Grenades !?

N1ghtShadow
05-24-2014, 12:32 PM
I've been mulling this over for awhile now. Something about it just didn't sit well with me and I couldn't figure it out. It just dawned on me, though: time.

We're given a finite amount of time to complete a siege. If we have to kill EVERY NPC enemy in each wave/stage, that'll eat up massive amounts of time. I mean, with the buff that these enemies get, imagine how long it'll take to kill off SIX Hulkers AND all of the infected NPC's. I prophecy that we'll be lucky to get past Stage 6 or 7 before the time runs out for the entire siege/incursion.

So... might I suggest that the time constraints be extended on those as well? Or maybe, instead of a set number of enemies killed, it be converted to a percentage- like 65% of NPC's killed triggers the end of the phase/stage? I dunno. What I DO know is that there WILL be unintended consequences as a result of this particular strategy for a fix to this particular problem.

rebtattoo
05-24-2014, 12:44 PM
I've been mulling this over for awhile now. Something about it just didn't sit well with me and I couldn't figure it out. It just dawned on me, though: time.

We're given a finite amount of time to complete a siege. If we have to kill EVERY NPC enemy in each wave/stage, that'll eat up massive amounts of time. I mean, with the buff that these enemies get, imagine how long it'll take to kill off SIX Hulkers AND all of the infected NPC's. I prophecy that we'll be lucky to get past Stage 6 or 7 before the time runs out for the entire siege/incursion.

So... might I suggest that the time constraints be extended on those as well? Or maybe, instead of a set number of enemies killed, it be converted to a percentage- like 65% of NPC's killed triggers the end of the phase/stage? I dunno. What I DO know is that there WILL be unintended consequences as a result of this particular strategy for a fix to this particular problem.All of the scaling is supposed to be restructured when these changes happen. Will be interested to see how it turns out.

dramaQkarri
05-28-2014, 09:46 AM
BUMP.

This hulker fix still happening?

For those of you that say "it's so easy! just stay up all night", get a job. See how that works for ya.

Besides I'm not convinced it's doable at all on PS3 NA, even at that time. At least not very often.

rebtattoo
05-28-2014, 09:49 AM
BUMP.

This hulker fix still happening?

For those of you that say "it's so easy! just stay up all night", get a job. See how that works for ya.

Besides I'm not convinced it's doable at all on PS3 NA, even at that time. At least not very often.It isn't. Too many azzhats still kill the afflicted. Small group and I were working on one just last night. It was almost dead and the round ends...Very annoying.

Overtkill21
05-28-2014, 09:54 AM
It isn't. Too many azzhats still kill the afflicted. Small group and I were working on one just last night. It was almost dead and the round ends...Very annoying.

I had 4 Infected Hulkers chasing just me last night - I guess I was the only one Aggro-ing them. It was pretty funny to see though. they despawned and I had all four of them with a 1/8 health missing. :(

rebtattoo
05-28-2014, 09:59 AM
I had 4 Infected Hulkers chasing just me last night - I guess I was the only one Aggro-ing them. It was pretty funny to see though. they despawned and I had all four of them with a 1/8 health missing. :(And the craziest ******** about it.

I do the daily in San Quentin at TL5 and the hulker is dead in less than 20 seconds!

I'm expected to believe that doubling that TL makes it nearly invulnerable?

Festival
05-28-2014, 10:04 AM
It isn't. Too many azzhats still kill the afflicted. Small group and I were working on one just last night. It was almost dead and the round ends...Very annoying.

I've tried using Area chat to ask people to concentrate on the Hulkers when they spawn, as well as alert people to the spawn. It does about as much good as asking people not to break the locks in a Warmaster run.

That is to say, a complete waste of my time. /sigh

dramaQkarri
05-28-2014, 10:08 AM
And the craziest ******** about it.

I do the daily in San Quentin at TL5 and the hulker is dead in less than 20 seconds!

I'm expected to believe that doubling that TL makes it nearly invulnerable?

Mob scaling. Working as intended.

rebtattoo
05-28-2014, 10:18 AM
Mob scaling. Working as intended.Exactly....

Deunan
05-28-2014, 10:51 AM
I've tried using Area chat to ask people to concentrate on the Hulkers when they spawn, as well as alert people to the spawn.Most of the time that won't make a difference anyway because the Hulkers spawn later than the rest of the mobs. That's why the wave progression bar is already well past halfway most times they spawn (after the first few waves).

Festival
05-28-2014, 11:00 AM
Most of the time that won't make a difference anyway because the Hulkers spawn later than the rest of the mobs. That's why the wave progression bar is already well past halfway most times they spawn (after the first few waves).

Yep. The original version of that post had something about not bothering if there wasn't at least half of the progress bar left, but I edited it out for some reason. =P

Overtkill21
05-28-2014, 02:14 PM
Most of the time that won't make a difference anyway because the Hulkers spawn later than the rest of the mobs. That's why the wave progression bar is already well past halfway most times they spawn (after the first few waves).

Last night I saw the Hulkers spawn with the progression bar filled - they appeared and disappeared like they were a single frame of XXX in a Disney movie.

TheOz
05-28-2014, 02:20 PM
Last night I saw the Hulkers spawn with the progression bar filled - they appeared and disappeared like they were a single frame of XXX in a Disney movie.

http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200407/ced510xe_1089151384_fight_club_subliminal_1.jpg

Mobius Evalon
05-28-2014, 05:01 PM
How about just making any and all formidable level hulkers count? Super easy fix, remains challenging, everyone's happy, case closed.

drackiller
05-29-2014, 01:13 AM
How about just making any and all formidable level hulkers count? Super easy fix, remains challenging, everyone's happy, case closed.

But that would be too easy ah !? And we don`t want that, do we ? :rolleyes:

ironcladtrash
06-08-2014, 05:02 PM
So far I have been pleasantly surprised and this is working pretty well. I finished the pursuit now and so far haven't had a siege stall out. Sometimes hulkers randomly disappeared before being killed in the middle of the round but it didn't stop the siege/incursion from progressing. Also a few times the round ended before the hulkers were killed but they stayed through the next round and didn't disappear.

Atticus Batman
06-08-2014, 05:10 PM
So far I have been pleasantly surprised and this is working pretty well. I finished the pursuit now and so far haven't had a siege stall out. Sometimes hulkers randomly disappeared before being killed in the middle of the round but it didn't stop the siege/incursion from progressing. Also a few times the round ended before the hulkers were killed but they stayed through the next round and didn't disappear.

I've noticed that on Xbox as well

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
06-08-2014, 05:54 PM
So far I have been pleasantly surprised and this is working pretty well. I finished the pursuit now and so far haven't had a siege stall out. Sometimes hulkers randomly disappeared before being killed in the middle of the round but it didn't stop the siege/incursion from progressing. Also a few times the round ended before the hulkers were killed but they stayed through the next round and didn't disappear.

i saw this two nights ago on ps3. stage 7 and we had two hulkers almost dead, when they just disappeared. both hulkers were by the barn, and you could hear a lot of people in area chat asking where they went. a few seconds after the disappearance, someone pointed out that the third hulker had spawned, and we were able to take him down. the third did not spawn until after the other two were gone though.