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View Full Version : Soo, whens fire getting a buff?



Olaf
05-28-2014, 02:19 PM
Like title said,


when is fire and electric getting a buff against armor?? bio is far superior in every way.

Nefarious
05-28-2014, 02:27 PM
That's Bios purpose to be good against armor.

If anything bio should get toned down in other fields.

OttawaREDBLACKS
05-28-2014, 02:31 PM
Personally instead of the -50% and +50% it should be something similar to +50, -35% at the worse. Radiation is constantly good, bio is required and constantly good, syphon everyone loves syphon.

Olaf
05-28-2014, 02:33 PM
That's Bios purpose to be good against armor.

If anything bio should get toned down in other fields.

Well then shouldnt bio have -45% against health ? as it stands it doesnt make too much sense to use anything other than bio. i have a bio springer that i love using.. today i picked up a fire votan pulser and love it but have noticed it is next to useless against any enemy with an armor plate compared to my bio springer. i would hate to have an electric springer, that would be the ultimate troll.

Overtkill21
05-28-2014, 02:33 PM
Personally instead of the -50% and +50% it should be something similar to +50, -35% at the worse. Radiation is constantly good, bio is required and constantly good, syphon everyone loves syphon.

I am an avid Fire user and my orange EMC Service Rifle begs to differ on usefulness.

I am rarely beaten for top score in ANY event.

Pair it with a Sludge like I do and voila, armor hole filled, your fire does more damage to armor and you have the MOST effective killing nano there is. No other nano can take down health as fast - and kills still matter for score.

MoreHedzthanHydra
05-28-2014, 02:33 PM
siphon wants a buff while you're at it...

Olaf
05-28-2014, 02:35 PM
I am an avid Fire user and my orange EMC Service Rifle begs to differ on usefulness.

I am rarely beaten for top score in ANY event.

Pair it with a Sludge like I do and voila, hole filled and you have the MOST effective killing nano there is. No other nano can take down health as fast - and kills still matter, remember?

Thats very well and good mate, problem is score means nothing when your thinking about DPS. Trion made very sure of that, cannibalizing the score system into what it is now is a joke, DPS / total damage should be a standard column on ANY score board system.

MoreHedzthanHydra
05-28-2014, 02:35 PM
Well then shouldnt bio have -45% against health ? as it stands it doesnt make too much sense to use anything other than bio. i have a bio springer that i love using.. today i picked up a fire votan pulser and love it but have noticed it is next to useless against any enemy with an armor plate compared to my bio springer. i would hate to have an electric springer, that would be the ultimate troll.

Riddle me this... why do people pump endless rounds into an enemy with 9 armor plates without bothering to break the armor, then complain about bullet sponges?

Ah, perhaps they thought Jorge was going to crack the armor?

Olaf
05-28-2014, 02:36 PM
siphon wants a buff while you're at it...

yep syphon is a glorified bmg now.

Atticus Batman
05-28-2014, 02:37 PM
use a bio gun to remove armor then use the gun of choice. Fire for health. Electric for shields, blah blah blah. I personally use a bio to remove armor then switch to a no-nano most times.

Olaf
05-28-2014, 02:37 PM
Riddle me this... why do people pump endless rounds into an enemy with 9 armor plates without bothering to break the armor, then complain about bullet sponges?

Ah, perhaps they thought Jorge was going to crack the armor?

i understand that, i actually found using a bio nade was the best route for me to go when using my fire votan.

Atticus Batman
05-28-2014, 02:38 PM
Thats very well and good mate, problem is score means nothing when your thinking about DPS. Trion made very sure of that, cannibalizing the score system into what it is now is a joke, DPS / total damage should be a standard column on ANY score board system.

No the problem, is having a score system in a co-op game. It is supposed to be the players versus the world. Not Player versus players versus the world.

Overtkill21
05-28-2014, 02:42 PM
Thats very well and good mate, problem is score means nothing when your thinking about DPS. Trion made very sure of that, cannibalizing the score system into what it is now is a joke, DPS / total damage should be a standard column on ANY score board system.

Gaming the scoring system is how the game is played - they change the rules, you change how you play or suffer the low score.

On topic, Bio is in fact only the best at dropping armor and NOT at DPS and fire the best at dropping health (aka killing) and not at DPS. No score mention required for those little tidbits.

If you want to talk DPS then grab a No Nano. Which would have no place in a discussion about buffing nanos.

Not talking DPS Olaf, talking about whether Fire needs a buff and it doesn't.

dramaQkarri
05-28-2014, 02:44 PM
No the problem, is having a score system in a co-op game. It is supposed to be the players versus the world. Not Player versus players versus the world.

Well said.

And that being said, fire does not need a buff. It needs to be used in the right situations. I'm a big fire fan but not on everything! OP needs to adjust.

If anything needs a buff it's syphon. But only a little bit to make syphon weapons worth it again. I still use it but not very much.

Lately I've been a big electric fan, myself. OK that's a weird sentence but I think you know what I mean.

Try using flashbang nades with fire guns - freeze 'em and mow 'em down!

Overtkill21
05-28-2014, 02:48 PM
No the problem, is having a score system in a co-op game. It is supposed to be the players versus the world. Not Player versus players versus the world.

I liked the old score system. It was straight forward. But the new one changes the focus of play to nano choice over all. A nano that ticks, or two that tick will jack your score right up over others.

A nano that more efficiently finishes off a foe will also jack up your score.

Hence why Fire is fantastic and needs no buff at all (at least with this new score system)

Olaf
05-28-2014, 02:50 PM
Gaming the scoring system is how the game is played - they change the rules, you change how you play or suffer the low score.

On topic, Bio is in fact only the best at dropping armor and NOT at DPS and fire the best at dropping health (aka killing) and not at DPS. No score mention required for those little tidbits.

If you want to talk DPS then grab a No Nano. Which would have no place in a discussion about buffing nanos.

Not talking DPS Olaf, talking about whether Fire needs a buff and it doesn't.

Gaming the score system is indeed how the game has to be played now, which is a result of the devs r3tard3d score system. It is very clear thats how the game is played by alot of people, all you have todo is go into a warmaster and inspect the top scorers to see that. I've grown fonder of no nanos since this DLC though which is a good thing =)

On a side note: how about trion introduces NATURAL nano conversion to the arkforge repertoire, I would happily pay arkforge to convert some of my guns nano's without needing to waste my mag slot.

dramaQkarri
05-28-2014, 02:59 PM
Gaming the score system is indeed how the game has to be played now, which is a result of the devs r3tard3d score system. It is very clear thats how the game is played by alot of people, all you have todo is go into a warmaster and inspect the top scorers to see that. I've grown fonder of no nanos since this DLC though which is a good thing =)

On a side note: how about trion introduces NATURAL nano conversion to the arkforge repertoire, I would happily pay arkforge to convert some of my guns nano's without needing to waste my mag slot.

No argument with the thought that the new score system absolutely blows. I've adjusted. It still blows.

I just like shooting red dots dead.

Nefarious
05-28-2014, 03:01 PM
today i picked up a fire votan pulser and love it but have noticed it is next to useless against any enemy with an armor plate compared to my bio springer.

With patch 1.509 it introduced ...

"* Hitting enemies in their weak spots now avoids the regular damage reduction from Armor Plates."

Fire and Electric are good at what they do and don't need buffs against armor plates.

Nor does Syphon need any sorts of buffs imo. Because the way Syphon works I can pull the impossable off in PvE. I can stand toe to toe with threat level 10 enemies. Anything below threat level 10 Im near if not totally invincible because of Syphon. Syphon needs a lot of pieces to make it good. With a near perfect gear set up Syphon is pure beast mode.

Extreme Rugburn
05-28-2014, 03:18 PM
I use a Bio SMG and an electric Thunder. The Thunder is by far the better weapon with double crit, double damage, and all T5 mods, however the SMG is actually more effective and it has one crit, one damage and all T3 mods. It baffles me... The Electric Thunder is pointless since by the time I have removed all the armor plates I have also removed the shields, thus needing to switch to the Thunder is moot. I wish I could change my Thunder to BIO or Radiation.

duction
05-28-2014, 03:20 PM
siphon wants a buff while you're at it...


i agree is needs a dmg buff

Overtkill21
05-28-2014, 04:01 PM
...
On a side note: how about trion introduces NATURAL nano conversion to the arkforge repertoire, I would happily pay arkforge to convert some of my guns nano's without needing to waste my mag slot.

Word - this seems so very common sense but y'know...

Trion.

Kobalobasileus
05-28-2014, 04:16 PM
Riddle me this... why do people pump endless rounds into an enemy with 9 armor plates without bothering to break the armor, then complain about bullet sponges?

Ah, perhaps they thought Jorge was going to crack the armor?

Not everyone has a bio weapon, you know. If it was available as a magazine mod, it would be a different story. Now that criticals bypass armor, bio's usefulness took a drop, anyway.

Enemies are still massive bullet sponges when they can eat a full ammo supply of criticals and not even lose their shield.

spweasel
05-28-2014, 04:21 PM
Fire's fine, especially with the change that makes Crits ignore Armor. If anything needs tweaking regarding Fire vs. Bio, it's the number of Armor Plates certain enemies have (Viscera, Rioters, and Bulwarks spring to mind).

I still think that Siphon needs retooling to be more in line with the other Nanos. Switch the proc to a minor DoT with some secondary effect and up the card damage from 75% to 90%. This would make the damage equivalent to Bio, but with a drain effect instead of the Armor removal.

Atticus Batman
05-28-2014, 04:24 PM
Not everyone has a bio weapon, you know. If it was available as a magazine mod, it would be a different story. Now that criticals bypass armor, bio's usefulness took a drop, anyway.

Enemies are still massive bullet sponges when they can eat a full ammo supply of criticals and not even lose their shield.

then use a bio grenade.

rebtattoo
05-28-2014, 04:28 PM
then use a bio grenade.Which are available to everyone!

Roez
05-28-2014, 04:45 PM
Riddle me this... why do people pump endless rounds into an enemy with 9 armor plates without bothering to break the armor, then complain about bullet sponges?

Ah, perhaps they thought Jorge was going to crack the armor?

Personally, I have this notion many people aren't used to the new system yet and fully don't understand it. I'm not sure if this is inexperience with video games and MMO's, an old-habits-die-hard thing, or what.

Half the fun now is designing loadouts to fight various mobs, built around specific weapon types and nano requirements. My personal favorite is an electrical/fire loadout against Volge. There are also single target loadouts, sniper loadouts where i rotate what sniper rifle I used based on the mob type, etc.

konstantinov
05-28-2014, 04:45 PM
I know what the fix is.


Swords

ConcreteSnake
05-28-2014, 04:54 PM
i understand that, i actually found using a bio nade was the best route for me to go when using my fire votan.

did you just an swear your own question? Only nano that needs a buff is syphon, needs a small damage buff.

Nefarious
05-28-2014, 04:59 PM
Trust me in that Syphon doesn't need buffs. For sure Syphon seems lack luster by itself but a lot of players are using any generic syphon nano weapon with any random synergy and expect it to be amazing. You need the right weapon, synergy, and perks. Its something that you need to put some effort into making.

I pretty much use Syphon nano exclusively, its always been my favorite nano. And I can tell everyone right now with the right set up it can easily be argued that it is over powered. But you need 'all the pieces to puzzle'.

For example, when I go into a minor Ark Break with a few or a couple of other players and the threat level is 8 or below I can stand in the middle of open space and get shot by every Volge in the place and not die. I can stand in the middle of them all while getting shot up and take them out because Syphon keeps replenishing my shields and health.

Its pretty crazy what can be done with it but my set up is something Ive been wanting to put together since the start of the game. Waiting for the right gun, the right synergy to go with it, and the right shield to put it all together to be able to do so. Some things take time and luck to be built up to be truly amazing. Syphon is one of these things.

Im not going to list out what to use because its not hard to figure out. Get yourself a quality high mag weapon with a nano based synergy. Equip nano based perks. And get yourself the best high capacity shield (we all know which one that is) Try that and then say Syphon needs a buff. Ya wont, you will be saying "this is ridiculous. My character is not a Human/Irathient/Castithan its a Terminator that has crossed over into the Defiance Universe. I hope Trion never looks into Syphon because it should be nerfed."

Jack Horrigan
05-28-2014, 05:59 PM
Am I the only one who uses a Sludge RL in my off hand? Then your free to use any nano and not worry about armor!

drackiller
05-29-2014, 01:08 AM
Syphon is not procing correctly on the PS3, at least not to me.
Even with the right perks the weapons feels useless to me. Syphon used to be the best...used to.

cutlogarithm725
06-04-2014, 10:10 AM
Syphon needs a buff i use a cannoneer syphon vbi smg with all the nano proc perks and a berserk shield and syphon does not proc enough

wartitan
06-04-2014, 10:26 AM
With patch 1.509 it introduced ...

"* Hitting enemies in their weak spots now avoids the regular damage reduction from Armor Plates."

Fire and Electric are good at what they do and don't need buffs against armor plates.

Nor does Syphon need any sorts of buffs imo. Because the way Syphon works I can pull the impossable off in PvE. I can stand toe to toe with threat level 10 enemies. Anything below threat level 10 Im near if not totally invincible because of Syphon. Syphon needs a lot of pieces to make it good. With a near perfect gear set up Syphon is pure beast mode.

This is the truth. I've got a Syphon pulser with double crit and EGO on reload, there are many times where I can stand in the middle of a room, drawing most of the fire, and still come out alive...I agree that it would be nice if syphon got a bit of a damage bump (it's almost 500 HP per shot less than my identical Fire pulser), but overall, a Syphon beast loadout can just rail if you rock a sludge RL and bio nades to take out the armor....

PseudoCool
06-04-2014, 11:09 AM
Actually.. and I'm floored that I'm going to post this publically.. but I fully agree with Nefarious' posts on this thread.

Syphon is a great nano, and when you pair and load it out right it's got a great survivability rate. Looking forward to trying out the new Purple FRC Saw with Assassin and Syphon, along with a Ego on reload and crit modifier. I think pairing that with the Sludge RL should turn it into a beast when I tinker with the Ego settings (already have all the syphon modifiers fully unlocked and slotted up).

Now.. that being said... I agree somewhat that fire needs a bit of love. Out of all the damage types, it's really a low-shooter at high levels. When your first starting in Mt Tam and shooting at enemies that don't have shields, Fire is THE beast mode of Defiance. After you get into 99'ers, Volge, and Dark Matter, equipping anything with fire nano is pretty pointless unless you've got bio nades or a bio secondary to drop the shields.

Olaf
06-04-2014, 11:23 AM
Actually.. and I'm floored that I'm going to post this publically.. but I fully agree with Nefarious' posts on this thread.

Syphon is a great nano, and when you pair and load it out right it's got a great survivability rate. Looking forward to trying out the new Purple FRC Saw with Assassin and Syphon, along with a Ego on reload and crit modifier. I think pairing that with the Sludge RL should turn it into a beast when I tinker with the Ego settings (already have all the syphon modifiers fully unlocked and slotted up).

Now.. that being said... I agree somewhat that fire needs a bit of love. Out of all the damage types, it's really a low-shooter at high levels. When your first starting in Mt Tam and shooting at enemies that don't have shields, Fire is THE beast mode of Defiance. After you get into 99'ers, Volge, and Dark Matter, equipping anything with fire nano is pretty pointless unless you've got bio nades or a bio secondary to drop the shields.

Agree totally, I believe ALL nano's should have some direct damage to armor capabilities, similar to bio (obviously bio should remain the strongest), however ALL nanos should do SOME damage to armor.

Nefarious
06-04-2014, 11:38 AM
Syphon needs a buff i use a cannoneer syphon vbi smg with all the nano proc perks and a berserk shield and syphon does not proc enough

idk how you feel it doesn't proc enough. Your Cannoneer VBI SMG should have a very high rate of fire like 16+ to make use of 2 seconds it has with its 30% nano chance plus nano based perks to proc off a good amount. How could it not?

Imo I do think Cannoneer needs a buff from 2 seconds to 6 to help more guns to benefit from it. But if so then the % to proc should be lower.

The 2 second window only grants the shooter a few shots with most guns. 30% Nano effect chance for 2 seconds after full reload would seem to only benefit single shot weapons the most. Then again the upper half of it +9% fire rate doesn't benefit single shot weapons at all. Its a two sided synergy that's really strong for two different things mostly. In the least though high rof weapons really benefit from it since they can get the most shots off in that 2 second window of time.

I myself like Nano Mastery, 5% nano effect on crit hits. Its just more consistent and benefits high mag weapons. Im always on the look for weapons that have that synergy.

Nano Executioner is something I have no idea how that works. 5% Nano effect on kill? Is that for the next shot after or on the kill itself? Either way it doesn't stand out enough compared to the consistency of Nano Mastery in doing the same thing.

Nefarious
06-04-2014, 11:48 AM
Agree totally, I believe ALL nano's should have some direct damage to armor capabilities, similar to bio (obviously bio should remain the strongest), however ALL nanos should do SOME damage to armor.

Don't they?

It takes a lot but I think only if an enemy has 10x armor (100%) would need the use of Bio to knock it down.

I swear that I lower enemies armor all the time without the use of Bio. It doesn't compare to how Bio does it but they come off.

Not to mention that shooting enemies in crit spots avoids the damage reduction from armor plates with any weapon.

Vlaron
06-04-2014, 12:00 PM
Riddle me this... why do people pump endless rounds into an enemy with 9 armor plates without bothering to break the armor, then complain about bullet sponges?

Ah, perhaps they thought Jorge was going to crack the armor?

I use a bio assault to break the armor then move on the next armored foe, hopefully leaving the now unarmored enemy to someone else.