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View Full Version : This vid made me wonder, are we doing it right !?



drackiller
05-30-2014, 07:52 AM
Warmaster
http://youtu.be/3pjARykkPEw

Etaew
05-30-2014, 08:00 AM
It seems there are a lot of people there, past the limits? or am I just never in an instance which is filled

Copperpot
05-30-2014, 08:16 AM
Dang he scored really high with that canker.

Deunan
05-30-2014, 08:50 AM
Warmaster
http://youtu.be/3pjARykkPEwThat kill group is filled with totally clueless players and only underscores everything that is wrong about the implementation of Major Arkbreaks.

The kill group had to be one of the most clueless ones I have ever seen or heard of. Poor DPS loadouts, wasting time reviving, wasting time with idle chat, all while dividing damage on all THREE targets. The only reason that group killed him is because they zerged him and the only reason zerging works is because they nerfed the Warmaster's scaling with 1.504 and they nerfed his dropshock attack and damage mitigation with 1.509.

Zerging should not be a solution for endgame content. Mediocrity shouldn't be rewarded with Legendary Arkbreaker weapons. It would be funny and somewhat appropriate if they changed the Warmaster once more by having his scaling increase exponentially once the group exceeds the 24 queuing cap. If they did then that group would be filled with crawlers and an escaped Warmaster for their shoddy efforts.


It seems there are a lot of people there, past the limits? or am I just never in an instance which is filled
They're using the invite and go to friend functions to exceed the queuing cap. There were about 40+players inside that Arkbreak.

PseudoCool
05-30-2014, 09:00 AM
I have to agree with ^^.. zerging is NOT tactics at all, it's just a way to "make sure" you put down enough damage. Lets see em do it with the 24 person cap of pugs, THEN I'll be impressed.

Nice vid tho.

KasperSheitup
05-30-2014, 09:02 AM
Going for the back is the only thing they're doing correctly (even if half of them are targeting the wrong spot)
Deunan hits it spot on.

jackdaws_1999
05-30-2014, 09:12 AM
This video makes me die alittle inside.

This is one of the reasons there are so many USELESS DEAD WIEGHT people around... cankers, Volge weapons, I even saw BMGs in there... and stopping to look around where his friend was... Did I mention Canker? Really?

Please tell me there arent people around who still think "all those damage numbers" means that cankers are good against wms?

This hurts my brain, and if I see this person on EU or any of his "buddies", they are welcome to do all the warmasters themselves, cause I know many people who actually know what they are doing wont want to be carrying them.

Combo Breaker
05-30-2014, 09:23 AM
I honestly will never understand some things. I don't really care if there is 24 people or 40 people in there, just as long as I don't see Volge weapons,BMGs, or Infectors.

Oh yeah, and Bio Nades.

3rdpig
05-30-2014, 11:29 AM
What Deunan said, and one of the reasons I don't play much anymore. The game has too few fun things to do for me anymore, and two of the most fun, Warmaster and Volge Seige, are broken to the point where they're not fun.

3rdpig
05-30-2014, 11:30 AM
I honestly will never understand some things. I don't really care if there is 24 people or 40 people in there, just as long as I don't see Volge weapons,BMGs, or Infectors.

Oh yeah, and Bio Nades.

Understanding is simple. You shouldn't have to cheat to win. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Jack Horrigan
05-30-2014, 11:30 AM
Yep, definately a good video to show all the things NOT to do. He even says you need more than 20 people, which is wrong. He does cause he isn't contributing in any meaningful way. I guess once f2p arrives the only way to beat the WM is to find a zerg group...
If this is what people think helps, maybe its finally time for me to give up on fighting the WM. I love the battle, but all these morons with infectors, BMGs, volge guns, rockets, and detonaters...

Odessa
05-30-2014, 11:43 AM
I learned a new word today. Zerg. A painful word, too. I agree that the video showed too many things you shouldn't do and wrapped them all up in a success that makes people think it will work.


I honestly will never understand some things. I don't really care if there is 24 people or 40 people in there, just as long as I don't see Volge weapons,BMGs, or Infectors.

Oh yeah, and Bio Nades.

I am waiting on an official response in terms of Bio glitching the WM. I say yes but others state it's when people are too close to the wall. I take it your opinion is that the grenades are the issue?

Combo Breaker
05-30-2014, 12:00 PM
I learned a new word today. Zerg. A painful word, too. I agree that the video showed too many things you shouldn't do and wrapped them all up in a success that makes people think it will work.





I am waiting on an official response in terms of Bio glitching the WM. I say yes but others state it's when people are too close to the wall. I take it your opinion is that the grenades are the issue?

Yes. I think it is more than just Bio nades, but I do think they contribute to the problem.


Understanding is simple. You shouldn't have to cheat to win. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

My 1st blocked person. Always negative to my posts. I see an entire thread about glitching to the new area for you to go complain on.

Deunan
05-30-2014, 01:27 PM
Yes. I think it is more than just Bio nades, but I do think they contribute to the problem.The only way I could see it being bio grenades is if they were thrown at the Warmaster before he is about to jump to the wall but doing that is largely pointless. I guess some players think it helps to slow his movement but it should be pointed out that (A) the main value of a bio grenade is to give all incoming bullets armor stripping capability so they can still be thrown at him when the locks break and when he drops off the wall and (B) if poop shoes are in fact causing him to glitch into the wall then players should also make sure they've switched out to a non bio-nano weapon after his plates are stripped.

Of course this all begs the question of whether that is in fact causing him to glitch into the wall. I'm going to file a bug report suggesting that the dev team see if they can recreate that glitch on the QA server with bio-grenades to confirm or dispel that belief. I'll also send a PM to Trick.

Combo Breaker
05-30-2014, 01:34 PM
The only way I could see it being bio grenades is if they were thrown at the Warmaster before he is about to jump to the wall but doing that is largely pointless. I guess some players think it helps to slow his movement but it should be pointed out that (A) the main value of a bio grenade is to give all incoming bullets armor stripping capability so they can still be thrown at him when the locks break and when he drops off the wall and (B) if poop shoes are in fact causing him to glitch into the wall then players should also make sure they've switched out to a non bio-nano weapon after his plates are stripped.

Of course this all begs the question of whether that is in fact causing him to glitch into the wall. I'm going to file a bug report suggesting that the dev team see if they can recreate that glitch on the QA server with bio-grenades to confirm or dispel that belief. I'll also send a PM to Trick.

I hope they check it. It would be nice to have a verified answer to it.

Odessa
05-30-2014, 02:30 PM
The only way I could see it being bio grenades is if they were thrown at the Warmaster before he is about to jump to the wall but doing that is largely pointless. I guess some players think it helps to slow his movement but it should be pointed out that (A) the main value of a bio grenade is to give all incoming bullets armor stripping capability so they can still be thrown at him when the locks break and when he drops off the wall and (B) if poop shoes are in fact causing him to glitch into the wall then players should also make sure they've switched out to a non bio-nano weapon after his plates are stripped.

Of course this all begs the question of whether that is in fact causing him to glitch into the wall. I'm going to file a bug report suggesting that the dev team see if they can recreate that glitch on the QA server with bio-grenades to confirm or dispel that belief. I'll also send a PM to Trick.

I have seen him start to jump then switch, not lag related. Inverted hang or hanging inside the wall as well as being glitchy in the center. He'll jump, go right back then jump again. His movements are definitely being altered by something specific. I messaged PT yesterday and they responded that they were super tight on schedule with F2P but would get back on the Warmaster Guide thread. I felt it's important to have the right info for all the new players.

duction
05-30-2014, 03:03 PM
please disregaurd that crap, this is how the EU xbox server does it, pretty much a 90% success rate.

We all wait, are organised and communicate.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1eiwnk7zIo

Shot it about 15 mins ago.

Nefarious
05-30-2014, 03:27 PM
If players just wait for more ppl before starting it, like wait till the radar in the upper right is filled to the brim with purple dots you will kill the WM without question.

As far as 'are we doing it right?'.. no we never have done the WM right. They're are so many tools and ways to do it exactly right. If players put 100% effort in all ways to do it right then WM would never ever be a problem. Ppl meet 'doing it right' half way and because of that it seems that the over whelming numbers approach is the only way to go about beating the WM.

So yeah, waiting for a lot of players is the easiest and safest bet.

maverick07
05-30-2014, 03:30 PM
I have seen him start to jump then switch, not lag related. Inverted hang or hanging inside the wall as well as being glitchy in the center. He'll jump, go right back then jump again. His movements are definitely being altered by something specific. I messaged PT yesterday and they responded that they were super tight on schedule with F2P but would get back on the Warmaster Guide thread. I felt it's important to have the right info for all the new players.

I'm not sure what is causing it anymore. Because recently, a friend and I have been doing some experimenting with the WM really late (no one else on and also solo runs), and he STILL glitches out like that. With no bio effects on him or no player hitboxes getting in the way on the way to the wall. Maybe certain paths the WM is taking to the wall is making it happen somehow...

Deunan
05-30-2014, 03:42 PM
please disregaurd that crap, this is how the EU xbox server does it, pretty much a 90% success rate.

We all wait, are organised and communicate.Apparently your kill group was not as organized as you thought it was. All you did was zerg it just like they did in the other video but with a bit less cluelessness.

You had over 50 players there. While using the Pulser is optimal for breaking the armor you kept using it afterwards instead of a Wolfhound or Ranger or other superior critical DPS weapon. The only reason an informed player does that is to sacrifice group DPS for personal point gains. There were plenty of other players that were far worse as well using awful weapon choices like combat and pump shotguns, cold fire weapons, detonators and BMGs. It's unlikely your kill group would have fared any better if you didn't zerg the Warmaster. I'm unimpressed and underwhelmed.

At least most of you were aiming at the same target. >^^<

duction
05-30-2014, 03:47 PM
Apparently your kill group was not as organized as you thought it was. All you did was zerg it just like they did in the other video but with a bit less cluelessness.

You had over 50 players there. While using the Pulser is optimal for breaking the armor you kept using it afterwards instead of a Wolfhound or Ranger or other superior critical DPS weapon. The only reason an informed player does that is to sacrifice group DPS for personal point gains. There were plenty of other players that were far worse as well using awful weapon choices like combat and pump shotguns, cold fire weapons, detonators and BMGs. It's unlikely your kill group would have fared any better if you didn't zerg the Warmaster. I'm unimpressed and underwhelmed.

At least most of you were aiming at the same target. >^^<


Its an assasin radiation needler with a crit Mastery and crit barrel, and its very potent. wolfhound was in my loadout too.

you are trying to preach to the server that kills pertty much EVERY wm called down lol, jog on troll

Deunan
05-30-2014, 04:01 PM
you are trying to preach to the server that kills pertty much EVERY wm called down lol, jog on trollThere is nothing impressive or informative about showing a video of a zerg killing anything in an MMO. Calling someone a troll just because you got called out on bragging about something that is laughable and pathetic doesn't make it so but have fun with that one. :rolleyes:

duction
05-30-2014, 04:04 PM
There is nothing impressive or informative about showing a video of a zerg killing anything in an MMO. Calling someone a troll just because you got called out on bragging about something that is laughable and pathetic doesn't make it so but have fun with that one. :rolleyes:

after watching the 2 videos you still belive in your own head that we were worse off? his armour went in seconds. Obvious troll is obvious im affraid. :)

Deunan
05-30-2014, 04:19 PM
after watching the 2 videos you still belive in your own head that we were worse off? his armour went in seconds. Obvious troll is obvious im affraid. :)I never said that you were worse off. That's a total straw man. I said that your group was unimpressive and it was. You continuously ignore the fact that you zerged the Warmaster and that is literally the only reason your group succeeded in killing him because you have to in order to pretend that there was anything special about the way your 50 plus player killed the Warmaster.

Breaking the armor just inside the minute mark is not impressive when you have over twice as many players as what should be required to kill him, especially since they nerfed his scaling with 1.504 so that he proportionally gets easier and easier to kill with the more players you bring in towards and beyond 24. Zergs are a pathetic way to defeat endgame content. They always have been and they always will be. Bragging about victory by zerg is even more pathetic.

Keep up with the empty name calling though. Maybe it will magically turn your vapid empty arguments into valid ones. Oops no it won't. >^^<

Nefarious
05-30-2014, 04:24 PM
All these videos show is how over whelming numbers works against the WM and how waiting for more players is good. Once the WM reaches so many players its near impossable to lose, even if everyone is point hunting. The WM gets sacked with dmg.

If I saw a vid where everyone was in groups of 4 with One for All equipped along with switching to Fire Nano Weapons upon crystal break and falling back in formation out of the bombardment zone when the WM wall hangs and using Spikes in clean order all while killing the WM in record time. That would be impressive.

But just acting like fire ants with a full room on the WM is the bread and butter approach. Its a near fail proof way of doing it. Nothing particularly vid worthy since we all have been apart of doing it this way ourselves.

duction
05-30-2014, 04:26 PM
I never said that you were worse off. That's a total straw man. I said that your group was unimpressive and it was. You continuously ignore the fact that you zerged the Warmaster and that is literally the only reason your group succeeded in killing him because you have to in order to pretend that there was anything special about the way your 50 plus player killed the Warmaster.

Breaking the armor just inside the minute mark is not impressive when you have over twice as many players as what should be required to kill him, especially since they nerfed his scaling with 1.504 so that he proportionally gets easier and easier to kill with the more players you bring in towards and beyond 24. Zergs are a pathetic way to defeat endgame content. They always have been and they always will be. Bragging about victory by zerg is even more pathetic.

Keep up with the empty name calling though. Maybe it will magically turn your vapid empty arguments into valid ones. Oops no it won't. >^^<

dont be jealous, it doesnt suit you. we will stick to killing the war monkey over and you can stick to using the word zerg over and over, simples :)

Deunan
05-30-2014, 04:36 PM
dont be jealousLOLWUT? There's nothing to be jealous of. Nef's post says it all even if you don't get it. Zerg on to your heart's content.

jackdaws_1999
05-30-2014, 09:26 PM
As one of the "Zergs" in that video, I can tell you that an awful lot of new players were in there, hence the Volge weapons etc. However, I can also tell you that there were some of the biggest hitters on the EU in there. that warmaster was going to die, and tom not switching was fair enough, especially with the time left. Personally, I was using a qm radiation needler with falloff and t5 reload, and a 7.1 crit bio wolfie (the best I have, not the most useful). I can also vouch for the rest of midgard when I say, they were all concentrating on his back from the get go, as were NE, ALE and all other clans in there.

We split into 3 groups, that way 2 always have his back visible, rotate round the room in the same direction, thus ensuring 2 good damage groups on his back, the only time we join up is when he is on the wall, we use SMGs for his back, and we use Wolfies for his crit spots once broken. We religiously train our troops to hit his back, and what weapons to use. We basically preach all the "right" things to do, extract when down, tactical use of spikes etc.

However, as you can see from that video, we still have people who haven't learnt from the senior citizens (of which I am one), and so we get people in based on what we see, balance noobs with veterans... surely that is a good way of ensuring a kill?

Tom and the rest of NE, ALE, and a whole bunch of smaller clans like Midgard, Atomic Bananas, and an uncountable horde of others are always working together, discussing tactics, weapon builds, perk builds, training one another and working for the greater good. Plus, we kill that monkey a hell of a lot. We killed the WM after the 1.5 patch dropped, that evening, we have even killed him with lock breakers, and emergency calls being required for the kill. I have seen him drop with 18, I have seen him drop with 48. Its rare that its a fail. That does not make us "zergs" that makes us "informed, kitted out, and killer zergs" thank you very much :P

Its always difficult getting the balance right, but, based on our kill rate, surely we have it down? Give us that oh great and wise old time Deunan? we have to believe that life is what we make it?

DIS
05-30-2014, 11:05 PM
I realize the zerg method is seen by some as less "honorable" one might say. But, it works. What's wrong with using a method that works?

Jet1337
05-31-2014, 01:45 AM
Looks like that group was really low on vespene gas.

Olaf
05-31-2014, 11:45 AM
Thanks drack for posting this video.

This shows the developers and or Trick Dempsey EVERYTHING that is wrong with their score system in regards to the warmaster. The warmaster MUST be returned back to being purely based on damage and revive points. Damage is pivotal to the success of this event which is exactly why it must be restored... This isnt about stroking our e-peens, its about players understanding they are contributing very little towards the success of this event with their current loadout and to let others know who the deadweight is (although a simple inspect will do that usually).

3rdpig
05-31-2014, 06:22 PM
My 1st blocked person. Always negative to my posts. I see an entire thread about glitching to the new area for you to go complain on.

Pathetic. Seriously, is that the best way you have to deal with people who try to raise you out of the mire? And as far as being negative to your posts, I don't even remember responding to one before.

But hey, I'm blocked, so you won't even see this.

Ashlocke
05-31-2014, 06:41 PM
After viewing that video one thing became apparent to me. If you DO EVERYTHING WRONG, you can still win if you are the Zerg.

I see folks with canned speeches at the start of every Warmaster detailing what to do:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7mrmuhzBX1rr3l61o1_r1_250.gif

Then the lock breakers start which leads to all of the BMGs and Volge weapons and you feel like:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7d85eVDXD1rr3l61o1_250.gif

Noble_One
05-31-2014, 07:49 PM
wow these vids show nothing new. congrats you used a method that shows going over the max number of people will net you a win (this is equal to going into a 10 man raid and inviting more to bump it up to 40+ people and then bragging hey we beat a 10 man.... with 40+ people...). yes you zerged to win. is it against the rules? no. is it a cheap tactic and show not that much skill? yes.

i say this to the people that use said trick. go into a WM with a pug of ONLY 24 people (mixed egos). THEN win and show the vid. trust me youll get A LOT more respect points. also.... if they patch the invite loop hole.... the what are you going to do?

Olaf
05-31-2014, 08:09 PM
wow these vids show nothing new. congrats you used a method that shows going over the max number of people will net you a win (this is equal to going into a 10 man raid and inviting more to bump it up to 40+ people and then bragging hey we beat a 10 man.... with 40+ people...). yes you zerged to win. is it against the rules? no. is it a cheap tactic and show not that much skill? yes.

i say this to the people that use said trick. go into a WM with a pug of ONLY 24 people (mixed egos). THEN win and show the vid. trust me youll get A LOT more respect points. also.... if they patch the invite loop hole.... the what are you going to do?

werent you listening bro? xbox eu rolls with radiation needlers, they were always going to succeed, even with 10 players. :rolleyes:

KTD
05-31-2014, 08:38 PM
After viewing that video one thing became apparent to me. If you DO EVERYTHING WRONG, you can still win if you are the Zerg.

I see folks with canned speeches at the start of every Warmaster detailing what to do:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7mrmuhzBX1rr3l61o1_r1_250.gif

Then the lock breakers start which leads to all of the BMGs and Volge weapons and you feel like:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7d85eVDXD1rr3l61o1_250.gif

From what I read here on the forums. Don't matter much what version it is. Same story whether it is PC, Ps2, or Xbox 360. Goes for other problems associated with Defiance too. Just an observation.

duction
06-01-2014, 02:36 AM
werent you listening bro? xbox eu rolls with radiation needlers, they were always going to succeed, even with 10 players. :rolleyes:

Maybe we are doing it wrong and should just hit it up with infectors just to get some interwebz 'respec'.

LOL nahhhh we will just carry on being organised and keep Beating him over and over.

http://cdn4.gurl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/heatherchandler.gif

Noble_One
06-01-2014, 06:50 AM
Maybe we are doing it wrong and should just hit it up with infectors just to get some interwebz 'respec'.

LOL nahhhh we will just carry on being organised and keep Beating him over and over.

http://cdn4.gurl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/heatherchandler.gif



.....organized

but in all honesty... how is having 30+ people for a fight thats meant to be for 24 capped fair? jealous? jealous for what? zerging? not in the slightest. now show me a vid of low egos mostly and a couple of 4k plus egos with the 24 cap taking him down then ill be jealous of being NAPC.

Whippy
06-01-2014, 07:09 AM
For the record, Xbox EU have taken him down after DLC 5 with only about 18-20 people in there. I can perfectly explain that night if you like me too.

As for "zerging" correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Warmaster gain more health the more players are in?

I'd rather someone use a Radiation Needler than a stupid BMG just walking around putting blue balls on everyone or a Shotgun against him.

I'd also like to get as many friends and allies in a Warmaster as possible to share the loot. That isn't zerging, it's being considerate to your fellow gamer.

jackdaws_1999
06-01-2014, 01:51 PM
Maybe Im doing it wrong, but pre scoring system, I tested which guns got me highest damage.

Now for most of my friends it was a Vot Pulser, for me it was a rad needler... I usually hit in or around 1.5- 2.5mil.

Now correct me if Im wrong, but I thought the warmaster was a Damage race... i.e. use what gives you the most damage? I didnt realise that using weapons that mean I am being carried by my confederates was the way to go... I must be new to the game, I thought ensuring that I do MAX dps was the way to go... I get max by using a rad needler...

I tried vbi smgs, I tried Vot Pulsars, I even tried sub carbines (against my better judgement), and each time, I always scored more damage with a needler... maybe I dont have good pulsars, Maybe there is a god sub carbine out there that I could hit harder with... but till I get one, I will stick with what hits hardest, procs the most nano, and causes my buddies to do the most damage that they can.

This is why me and my wife each use a rad and a fire needler... means we are Both procing damage increasing nanos (yes rad stacks with fire, both give a damage boost ontop of usual effects).

So the next person who says "eeeerrrrgh your using a needler... they suck" can go take a long walk off of a short peir and dont stop till you reach tibet. I happen to get most dps out of a needler, some find saws the best, some use VBI ARs, some use pulsers. Surely its use the best of what you have?

Oh, and 90% of the wms I go into are wins (post 1.5, pre nearly 99% were wins), often with less than 25 people, occasionaly with less than 20.... so if I am doing it all wrong, I must be a hacker, since I rarely used to appear outside the top 10 on the damage boards... Now, I seem to be randomly placed... all hail the new score system... all hail Trions awesome sauce changes to the game... all hail Santa's little helper...

jackdaws_1999
06-01-2014, 02:02 PM
But then what would I know, we have only been consistently killing the warmaster over here on the EU, even when everyone else was crying fowl and saying it was impossible... we must only be doing it wrong...

I used to test for a company in belfast, every time I found a bug or problem with the software, the responce was always "your probably just doing it all wrong"... so maybe I am... I should use a BMG and an infector till his armour breaks, then use Volge lightning rifles fully charged for the crits, with a big boomer for back up... oh and I should use brawler stims and a sword for when he is on the wall... Oh and crawl around on the floor, that way Im helping my team by giving them the Max amount of score for pickin me up...

Please Note Sarcasm here... lots of it... in spades...

Olaf
06-01-2014, 02:34 PM
But then what would I know, we have only been consistently killing the warmaster over here on the EU, even when everyone else was crying fowl and saying it was impossible... we must only be doing it wrong...

I used to test for a company in belfast, every time I found a bug or problem with the software, the responce was always "your probably just doing it all wrong"... so maybe I am... I should use a BMG and an infector till his armour breaks, then use Volge lightning rifles fully charged for the crits, with a big boomer for back up... oh and I should use brawler stims and a sword for when he is on the wall... Oh and crawl around on the floor, that way Im helping my team by giving them the Max amount of score for pickin me up...

Please Note Sarcasm here... lots of it... in spades...

Over on PS3 EU we are constantly getting pissed off with players who use their bmgs/volge weapons, and at players who use their smg/lmg on the warmasters crit spot. Let me tell you why, because we are often doing these warmasters with groups of say 30 players and there is a bunch of people who are going for SCORE instead of winning the event, whereas the majority of us are there for the legendary drop chances, if we wanted keys or arkforge we would just continue to hitup dark matter arkfalls.... Now can you not see why players would get pissed off with other players who are contributing very little (Total DAMAGE) towards the event resulting in us just missing out on killing him,, and yet they are still scoring top because of a crappy scoring system trion has designed that was clearly not MEANT for the warmaster?? The setup may work for you guys over there on xbox EU, which I have no problem with because even though you are all using smgs on his crit spot you are still beating him, so clearly it works for you guys... But the point is if the scoreboards were based on Total DMG like it should be (which then decides how many keys/forge you get) i can guarantee then everyone would revert back to their SMG's for his crystal and then wolfhounds for his crit spot.

SirServed
06-01-2014, 04:14 PM
Maybe Im doing it wrong, but pre scoring system, I tested which guns got me highest damage.

Now for most of my friends it was a Vot Pulser, for me it was a rad needler... I usually hit in or around 1.5- 2.5mil.

Now correct me if Im wrong, but I thought the warmaster was a Damage race... i.e. use what gives you the most damage? I didnt realise that using weapons that mean I am being carried by my confederates was the way to go... I must be new to the game, I thought ensuring that I do MAX dps was the way to go... I get max by using a rad needler...

The issue is that you aren't changing weapons once the 2nd phase of the fight starts.

Posted by Logain: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?160891-Simple-Warmaster-Guide

Specifically: http://www.bit.ly/DuxDPScalc. You can use this tool to weigh your weapon choices for standard and crit dps situations.

@duction: Putting a crit barrel on your SMG when you need to shoot the WM crystal essentially renders that mod slot useless until his armor breaks. Using it during phase 2 of the fight when there are better weapons to use in that situation kill your damage potential.

Take note of the pre-1.5 screenshot I linked, this was a LOSS.

Tallon
06-01-2014, 09:18 PM
WM's dead... Doesn't really matter how he went down. Gratz, you won, and he's taking a dirt nap.

B_Draco
06-01-2014, 10:34 PM
Over on PS3 EU we are constantly getting pissed off with players who use their bmgs/volge weapons, and at players who use their smg/lmg on the warmasters crit spot.

Let me tell you why, because we are often doing these warmasters with groups of say 30 players and there is a bunch of people who are going for SCORE instead of winning the event, whereas the majority of us are there for the legendary drop chances, if we wanted keys or arkforge we would just continue to hitup dark matter arkfalls.... Now can you not see why players would get pissed off with other players who are contributing very little (Total DAMAGE) towards the event resulting in us just missing out on killing him, and yet they are still scoring top because of a crappy scoring system trion has designed that was clearly not MEANT for the warmaster??

The setup may work for you guys over there on xbox EU, which I have no problem with because even though you are all using smgs on his crit spot you are still beating him, so clearly it works for you guys... But the point is if the scoreboards were based on Total DMG like it should be (which then decides how many keys/forge you get) i can guarantee then everyone would revert back to their SMG's for his crystal and then wolfhounds for his crit spot.

Pretty much summed it up... The real issue here is the oh so wonderful scoring system that causes people to go for points rather than damage... I'm on PS3 NA, and it's stupid that I and what's left of the veterans have to wait for 35+ idiots to even get a chance to barely kill the WM... Hell, I occasionally had to report 5k+ EGOers to their clan officers/leaders because they go for score with BMGs/infectors, when I know they have some of the best weapons in the game for dealing a lot of crit or base damage...

So is all this talk of zerging cheap and showing a lack of skill? Yes. Is it necessary as of now? Yes unfortunately, because we're stuck with true idiots that want to brag about getting highest score rather than contributing a lot of damage... "I paid for this game, and I can play however I want" is the attitude of these jerk-offs... Better to stack and guarantee an underhanded win at this point if we cant get it legit...

Ashlocke
06-02-2014, 12:52 AM
I think the EGO message telling players to break the locks should be changed to:
"Ark Hunter, you have two choices, either equip for a high score which nets you more keys and ark forge, OR equip to beat the Warmaster for a chance at a Legendary drop. PICK ONE."

drackiller
06-02-2014, 12:58 AM
OMG. i created a monster with this thread :)

duction
06-02-2014, 01:07 AM
OMG. i created a monster with this thread :)

Lol you love it

Pandur
06-02-2014, 01:32 AM
after watching the 2 videos you still belive in your own head that we were worse off? his armour went in seconds. Obvious troll is obvious im affraid. :)

Sigh, it's really not that hard. If you have more than 24 people in the room any Video is absolutely and completely meaningless.
Jackdaws_1999 said you guys kill the Warmaster with 18 people too, make a Video of that, it would prove a point.
People might actually learn something from it, besides let's pile everyone and their mom in here so we can faceroll it.

DJ51
06-02-2014, 02:13 AM
I remember when we attributed the "in wall " glitch to poor load out choice of "Not overcharge", but with the impending free to play coming and so many bad loadouts I've seen before having a break plus dev changes to the WM the three wins I was in pre WM nerf make me wonder I mean Canker ? volge guns ? Highdps weapons ?
once it was the premiere battle to aspire to do well in.
Not that I ever played Diablo but seems a good comparison to make....
"Final Boss"=biggest baddest nasty there in Diablo.....Warmaster =biggest baddest nasty in Defiance

Now I really don't regret my Volge post of a month or so past :D:D:D:D

drackiller
06-02-2014, 02:24 AM
I remember when we attributed the "in wall " glitch to poor load out choice of "Not overcharge", but with the impending free to play coming and so many bad loadouts I've seen before having a break plus dev changes to the WM the three wins I was in pre WM nerf make me wonder I mean Canker ? volge guns ? Highdps weapons ?
once it was the premiere battle to aspire to do well in.
Not that I ever played Diablo but seems a good comparison to make....
"Final Boss"=biggest baddest nasty there in Diablo.....Warmaster =biggest baddest nasty in Defiance

Now I really don't regret my Volge post of a month or so past :D:D:D:D

I played Diablo and in the hardest tier Diablo is a kitty Cat compared to the Warmaster.

DJ51
06-02-2014, 02:28 AM
But would you go tackle it with a week's play and low tier players expecting to win ? not likely, but thanks for the input shows how nerfed the Warmatser has become

drackiller
06-02-2014, 02:31 AM
But would you go tackle it with a week's play and low tier players expecting to win ? not likely, but thanks for the input shows how nerfed the Warmatser has become

I think you didn`t understood me, let me say it again: Diablo , the final boss in Diablo is very easy compared to the Warmaster.

Pandur
06-02-2014, 03:02 AM
As for "zerging" correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Warmaster gain more health the more players are in?



He stops scaling at 16 or 20 people can't remember which one now. That's why zerging works so well.

Ashlocke
06-02-2014, 04:11 AM
He stops scaling at 16 or 20 people can't remember which one now. That's why zerging works so well.

The relevant quote posted by Kiwibird:
"We're altering Warmaster so that he won't scale past a certain number of participating players. That means going in with full groups of 24 is going to actually put you at an advantage. "

Link to her full post:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156759-Warmaster-Issues-Request-and-question&p=1470022&viewfull=1#post1470022

From the Patch 1.504 (hotfix) - Patch Notes:
"Tuned the Warmaster health scaling so that groups of 24 players have a higher likelihood of taking it down."

Patch Notes Link:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156858-Patch-1.504-(hotfix)-Patch-Notes&p=1470202&viewfull=1#post1470202

Sorry, I can't find an exact number, but I want to say that I remember reading it's 16.
Regardless, we at least have a general answer that the Warmaster stops scaling at some number of players under 24.

Logain
06-02-2014, 06:45 AM
Go thing it was an organized group of 40+ because if it was disorganized it might have taken ~80 people :)

Also @jackdaws_1999 that is awesome you were doing so much damage with a VOT Needler. Which if people are telling you that it is a bad weapon, it is one of the best DPS weapons in the game as it is just a VOT Tachmag Pulser variant (as is the Hog Leg). The base VOT Tachmag Pulser has the 2nd best overall DPS just behind the VOT Pulser (and all its variants including Votan Pulser, Castithan Springer etc.)

That said when the crystal armor comes off and the crit spot is exposed you can do more overall damage by using a higher crit mult weapon like the VBI Wolfhound (or VBI Wildcat) or a VBI SS-2 Ranger (which are the top 3 guns for high crit DPS). The Ranger having a more limited ammo supply. In the crit DPS category the Tachmag Pulser falls to 8th best with the base model scoring around 2,600 DPS while the base Ranger and Wolfhound are ~4,100+ or 50% better. (If the Wolfhound or Ranger have crit mult rolls they increase substantially more than 4,000+). So there was a potential to do substantially more damage switching to a Wolfhound after the crystal armor breaks. Finally, this is from a PC perspective in which firing a pistol is not that hard. I have heard it is much more difficult to fire a Wolfhound from a gaming console.

Tekrunner has an awesome weapon table (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?153129-Weapon-Tables) for all basic versions of guns so one can compare all the base versions of guns here. (In fact, I am going to include this link in my sig to help spread the word on that great guide.)

As Atra Mors (thanks for the support) pointed out above I also have an easy to use DPS Calculator (www.bit.ly/DuxDPScalc) that allows you to easily compare gun's DPS and crit DPS. Which is now essential if you want to compare weapons at different EGOs (an Orange Wolfhound at 3500 EGO to a Purple Wolfhound at 4500 EGO for example).

My hope that the DPS Calculator can be useful tool for the Defiance community in determining some the better guns in their inventory. (For Example I was pleasently surprised by the effectiveness of an Epic VBI SS-2 Ranger that I hardly used until recently.)

Logain
06-02-2014, 06:49 AM
Sorry, I can't find an exact number, but I want to say that I remember reading it's 16.
Regardless, we at least have a general answer that the Warmaster stops scaling at some number of players under 24.

I am pretty sure that the max scale number for people is 20. So if you had 24 people in the Warmaster room it put the group at a +4 person advantage.

Also Pre-DLC5 the Warmaster it took approximately 20 Million damage with 20 people to defeat it. I think (though I am not sure because damage is no longer listed so we cannot back calculate health) that it now takes 10x times that for 200 Million in damage total. Which makes sense in that my Wolfhound pre-patch would get around 12,000 per shot on the crit spot and now gets about 110,000 per shot on the crit spot.

N3gativeCr33p
06-02-2014, 07:01 AM
Just a few days ago, I was in my first successful WM run ever since DLC2 launched... thanks for that invite, Bentu! :)

jackdaws_1999
06-02-2014, 08:44 AM
Since Nobody here read my previous posts, I use Overcharge, a damage spike, a heal stim, a Rad Needler, a 7.0 crit wolfie (no crit mastery as yet) and a Respark Booster V Ark (not because I want to, but because its the best shield I have).

Those of you suggesting I use a wolfie, your preaching to the converted (I was using wolfies before they were "cool" as it were). I use Needler for armour, wolfie for crit. I shoot his back, as long as everyone else agrees. We kill the warmaster 90% of the time.

My point, one that I seem unable to convey, was that although we have killed the warmaster with more than 30+ consistantly, with the right guys in the room, we can kill him with less than 20 people. I was also pointing out to all those who said the needler sucks, that its the best I have.

I dont have the scrip to "buy" good weapons as Im always giving it to clan mates (sort them out with guns, then sort myself). I have terrible luck when it comes to actually getting OJ weapons, let alone decent OJs, so I run with what I have. The wolfie is a blue double crit with assassin, its the best gun I own, I got given this by my wife about 3 weeks ago, up to that point I had been running a single crit wolfie with cannoneer.

I also want to point out that I too would prefer the damage boards were back, as there is currently no way of telling who is helping and who is not, except by having people inspect nearby during the fight, as such leeching off of the team (so we dont do it). I want damage boards back, its a simple problem, leaderboards on score encourage score whoring, leaderboards on damage encourage Max PDS builds... the warmaster is a DPS race, as such should be based on damage done...

then again, Im apparently doing it all wrong.

Pandur
06-02-2014, 09:09 AM
Since Nobody here read my previous posts, I use Overcharge, a damage spike, a heal stim, a Rad Needler, a 7.0 crit wolfie (no crit mastery as yet) and a Respark Booster V Ark (not because I want to, but because its the best shield I have).

Those of you suggesting I use a wolfie, your preaching to the converted (I was using wolfies before they were "cool" as it were). I use Needler for armour, wolfie for crit. I shoot his back, as long as everyone else agrees. We kill the warmaster 90% of the time.

My point, one that I seem unable to convey, was that although we have killed the warmaster with more than 30+ consistantly, with the right guys in the room, we can kill him with less than 20 people. I was also pointing out to all those who said the needler sucks, that its the best I have.

I dont have the scrip to "buy" good weapons as Im always giving it to clan mates (sort them out with guns, then sort myself). I have terrible luck when it comes to actually getting OJ weapons, let alone decent OJs, so I run with what I have. The wolfie is a blue double crit with assassin, its the best gun I own, I got given this by my wife about 3 weeks ago, up to that point I had been running a single crit wolfie with cannoneer.

I also want to point out that I too would prefer the damage boards were back, as there is currently no way of telling who is helping and who is not, except by having people inspect nearby during the fight, as such leeching off of the team (so we dont do it). I want damage boards back, its a simple problem, leaderboards on score encourage score whoring, leaderboards on damage encourage Max PDS builds... the warmaster is a DPS race, as such should be based on damage done...

then again, Im apparently doing it all wrong.

I'm not sure who said you're doing it wrong, the only funny thing was duction posting a video that's how you do it, while having the same zerg amount as the first video.
At 40+ people it's largely irrelevant if you do it right, might be even beatable just with BMGS and infectors at that point.

If you want to actually show people how it's done just post a video with 24 people or less, that way it would be clear the tactics employed work out too.