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jackdaws_1999
05-30-2014, 08:22 AM
Ok, I have left it for a good while before coming to a judgement on the scoring system.

Here is my opinion of it so far.

Its broken beyond belief. Here is a hypothetical situation (not hypothetical as I have experienced it, and seen it Many times before):

Person X (cause person A was misbehaving) just happens to be at an arkfall when it drops, pursuit complete... nice. Person X proceeds to take part in Every crystal, gets a monster kill count, and deals a rediculous amount of damage, and arrives at the boss in time for it to spawn. Person X deals 65% of the damage to the boss, however their Ego runs out just at the last second and so Only gets a Crit Kill with his smg, that person X just refilled.

Person Y (cause person B stopped playing the game) sees the arkfall drop, but, not having a spawn near the arkfall drives all the way from Nop Totch, as such only gets to take part in 2 crystals. Person Y only gets a few kills at the first crystal due to Houdini Glitches, but gets a good run at the last one. Person Y gets to the boss at the same point as Person X. Person Y spends the time just shooting the mobs at the final boss, with the occasional shot at the boss once everything else is dead, and as such only deals around 20% of the damage to the boss. Person Y gets a Ego-Crit Kill on the boss with an assault rifle

Person C (Cause person W isnt on right now) Teleports into the final boss with only half its health left, as such it takes a while for the final boss to "un-houdini", as such person C only manages to get the last 15% of the damage done to the boss, however manages to get an Ego-Crit kill with the spare sniper rifle as smg ran out.

Now from the above situation, it would make sense that Person X scored the most, followed by Y, and finally Person C only comes in third (but with a respectable score).

The problem is this, Person X comes third, Person Y comes second, and person C gets top spot with 1 Whole Kill.

This above situation makes No Sence in any way shape or form. I agree, person C should get a nice boost for the Ego-Crit kill, they should get a nice load of keys... It encourages people to actually take part, and lets face it, we all like free stuff. However, if Person X has done a whole heap more work, but either got knocked over, or missed out on the kill shot due to a reload, they should still get a Heap More Points than C, and a decent amount more than Y.

The current scoring system makes little to no sence. It would be nice to have damage show up also, that way you see who did the most work. Or, since they seem to think people dont get griefed on score but do on damage, it would also be nice, that a score boost based on damage done would be a nice addition instead.

Something needs to be ironed out with scoring, there is something very wrong with Person C getting top spot.

jackdaws_1999
05-30-2014, 08:24 AM
Oh, and btw, I was person C there earlier today... I have been in all three situations in the above, and it stings where ever you come when you think about it.

Etaew
05-30-2014, 08:26 AM
It does seem that there is a major requirement to drop everything and shoot the boss when they are vulnerable, not only for the teamwork scores but for the score when you finally kill the target.

There are times when I would rather take apart the enemies that are around me than focus on something in the distance, and I should not be penalised for it. I am contributing just as much as the lucky gimp who gets the killing shot.

Combo Breaker
05-30-2014, 08:30 AM
It isn't really score to me anymore. Being #1 means nothing now. I lol at the braggarts in Zone/Area chat bragging about being 1st now.

Etaew
05-30-2014, 08:31 AM
It isn't really score to me anymore. Being #1 means nothing now. I lol at the braggarts in Zone/Area chat bragging about being 1st now.
True, but it does determine the keys / salvage rewards.

Combo Breaker
05-30-2014, 08:37 AM
True, but it does determine the keys / salvage rewards.

That is the only reason I keep on eye on my score.;)

jackdaws_1999
05-30-2014, 08:44 AM
True, but it does determine the keys / salvage rewards.

My point exactly, if they dont want people to grief about score (or damage), they could simply do away with the leaderboard and have just a personal board, or friends leaderboard, or clan leaderboard... I actually like the idea if NO leaderboard myself, but just tell me the damage I did (coming in a later patch I believe), and my percentage of damage compared to others that took part (dont show me what others did, but show the percentage). At least this way I can guage my toons build, I would love to see a DPS number for each event (again just for me). That would certainly help with crafting toons and builds.

dramaQkarri
05-30-2014, 08:45 AM
True, but it does determine the keys / salvage rewards.

And that's the most unfair thing about it. To h3ll with the scoreboard, I'm there to max out my rewards so I can go buy stuff after. It forces me to focus on the boss when I'd rather take out those two snipers RIGHT BEHIND YOU. So I have two choices: sacrifice my reward to save your life so YOU can get a kill shot, or be a selfish prig and get my own kill shot.

Maybe The Company is testing to find out our true colors. Their explanation about people getting griefed due to damage score is beyond ridiculous. We're gamers, those of us prone to griefing will find twisted reasons to grief. Period. The rest of us will call out the griefers. The cycle will continue.

I still say Trion is griefing us in a number of ways - scoring and RNG are glaring examples of their "against the playerbase" mentality. Somewhere along the line they forgot we are also customers.

jackdaws_1999
05-30-2014, 08:49 AM
And that's the most unfair thing about it. To h3ll with the scoreboard, I'm there to max out my rewards so I can go buy stuff after. It forces me to focus on the boss when I'd rather take out those two snipers RIGHT BEHIND YOU. So I have two choices: sacrifice my reward to save your life so YOU can get a kill shot, or be a selfish prig and get my own kill shot.

Maybe The Company is testing to find out our true colors. Their explanation about people getting griefed due to damage score is beyond ridiculous. We're gamers, those of us prone to griefing will find twisted reasons to grief. Period. The rest of us will call out the griefers. The cycle will continue.

I still say Trion is griefing us in a number of ways - scoring and RNG are glaring examples of their "against the playerbase" mentality. Somewhere along the line they forgot we are also customers.

This ^^^^ + 1 many times :)

Odessa
05-30-2014, 09:57 AM
I 100% agree with this. I remember seeing it was the boss stage of a Progenitor (needed for the weekly) on my mid level character and running and firing for points with my SMG. I managed to somehow get the kill shot and landed somewhere obscenely close to number one. I felt beyond guilty simply because it shouldn't be that way. It's more than rewards to me. It needs to be fair. If someone spent time on every crystal then they should have a higher score than I did. MUCH higher.

Etaew
05-30-2014, 10:03 AM
It forces me to focus on the boss when I'd rather take out those two snipers RIGHT BEHIND YOU. So I have two choices: sacrifice my reward to save your life so YOU can get a kill shot, or be a selfish prig and get my own kill shot.
Big example, during the Monolith fight, tell me if you are ever going to help a downed player while the neck thingey is exposed on the Monolith, the answer is no...

Deunan
05-30-2014, 10:12 AM
This above situation makes No Sence in any way shape or form. I agree, person C should get a nice boost for the Ego-Crit kill, they should get a nice load of keys...I disagree because I also disagree with this:


It encourages people to actually take partIt actually has quite the opposite effect. Players who manage their time for max efficiency in getting keys will opt to pass over a Major Arkfall that has just started if they see something like a Madera Incursion that is close to ending (you get major points for the last 3 emergencies and the Kenn Farm Incursion) then will rush over to the Boss fight to get their disproportionate boss kill shot reward. I see this happen all the time. That kind of disproportional scoring system discourages players from participating in the entire Major Arkfall.

However because:


and lets face it, we all like free stuff.I don't think it should change. I do think players need to get more points for more participation though and increasing points given for damage would be a move in the right direction.

Whippy
05-30-2014, 10:13 AM
The leaderboard should be damage dealt as a leaderboard is there for bragging rights...

I'm sorry but I'm not going to brag about hitting a monolith once and getting close to 300k score without doing hardly anything while those that actually got the ark fall to the monolith stage should be the rightful braggers. This would also make being involved in all stage much more important for receiving ark forge and key codes which will help bring players together and help it be more "team" based which is what trion was actually going for wasn't it?

Granted I came top of a Warmaster today by 11k points and was quite happy about that. Still didn't receive a legendary off it.

Deunan
05-30-2014, 10:15 AM
And that's the most unfair thing about it. To h3ll with the scoreboard, I'm there to max out my rewards so I can go buy stuff after. It forces me to focus on the boss when I'd rather take out those two snipers RIGHT BEHIND YOU. So I have two choices: sacrifice my reward to save your life so YOU can get a kill shot, or be a selfish prig and get my own kill shot.At least you aren't the @$$hat that EGO spiked them on the other player and ran off to shoot at the Monolith.

dramaQkarri
05-30-2014, 10:18 AM
The leaderboard should be damage dealt as a leaderboard is there for bragging rights...

I'm sorry but I'm not going to brag about hitting a monolith once and getting close to 300k score without doing hardly anything while those that actually got the ark fall to the monolith stage should be the rightful braggers. This would also make being involved in all stage much more important for receiving ark forge and key codes which will help bring players together and help it be more "team" based which is what trion was actually going for wasn't it?

Granted I came top of a Warmaster today by 11k points and was quite happy about that. Still didn't receive a legendary off it.

You make a valid point, really the leaderboard serves no purpose except to see our names in lights and brag about it.

If The Company is so worried about players being griefed then how exactly does it help to keep damage out of the equation? If they're worried about griefing then remove the leaderboard completely. Privatize our scores so only each player sees their own score.

Do I want it gone? NO. I enjoy a little friendly competition. I don't enjoy sense you do not make logic chop chop.

dramaQkarri
05-30-2014, 10:20 AM
At least you aren't the @$$hat that EGO spiked them on the other player and ran off to shoot at the Monolith.

LOL I honestly do try to pay attention but if one of The Company's goals was to try and get us to work together I'm sorry but they missed the boat. Sorry about me walking on your head, worms - I'm not usually like that but gameplay encourages selfishness right now. As if gamers need help with that.

jackdaws_1999
05-30-2014, 09:50 PM
I disagree because I also disagree with this:

It actually has quite the opposite effect. Players who manage their time for max efficiency in getting keys will opt to pass over a Major Arkfall that has just started if they see something like a Madera Incursion that is close to ending (you get major points for the last 3 emergencies and the Kenn Farm Incursion) then will rush over to the Boss fight to get their disproportionate boss kill shot reward. I see this happen all the time. That kind of disproportional scoring system discourages players from participating in the entire Major Arkfall.
....
I don't think it should change. I do think players need to get more points for more participation though and increasing points given for damage would be a move in the right direction.

I agree with your above comments, I was being diplomatic for the sake of argument.

I also kinda like the idea of seeing my name in lights (lets face it who doesn't like some form of notoriety).

But, if their argument for the scoring system is the "griefing factor", then I still think the only option they should go to is the personal boards, but give us more information, such as DPS, percentage damage done etc.

Infinity Eagle
05-31-2014, 06:50 AM
I agree with the O.P. and

The only reason they are not going back to a damage base scoring is because they are about to have "score boosts". So now everyone will be able to buy their way to the top of the "Score" board. Looks like pay to win to me :mad:

bigguy
05-31-2014, 09:29 AM
Yeah if you think this whole score thing is out of whack now wait till people can buy a bigger score. I have already stopped looking at the scoreboard because it has no meaning.

Griffix8
05-31-2014, 12:01 PM
Yeah if you think this whole score thing is out of whack now wait till people can buy a bigger score. I have already stopped looking at the scoreboard because it has no meaning.
Same...

I've actually gotten better scores from my baby character than my Ego 3K character. I know very well that baby character didn't contribute a whole lot to all the arkfall events unlike my higher character but yet I've gotten to placing 5th or 9th on the little character and not even placing on the big character. Previously when I was only using a level 700 character I'd still get in the top 10 despite not doing a whole lot.

Roez
05-31-2014, 01:14 PM
The one thing is certainly the time contribution. If someone shows up for the last five minutes of the Monolith, they can get pretty good rewards even if not top 20. Granted, they would get twice those rewards for doing the entire event, but that's much more time invested.


Big example, during the Monolith fight, tell me if you are ever going to help a downed player while the neck thingey is exposed on the Monolith, the answer is no...

People would skip that under the old system too though (meaning high damage opportunities). You get some serious numbers, and if you're going for a leader board position that's the time.

Personally, I did well under the old system, and the new one, and still revive people unless I have my cooldowns running. Such is life. I like the challenge of scoring systems, and don't really see the current one as a huge issue. It could use tweeking though.

rebtattoo
05-31-2014, 05:56 PM
It needs to go back to dmg based numbers. Or, take the damned cap off the WM. Tired of hitting 102k in less than 2 minutes and spending the rest of the event scoring very little. Show me my damned dmg and have the rewards be based off that!

Nalai
05-31-2014, 07:30 PM
The scoring system = scaling = grenades. A nonsensical change that negatively impacts gameplay with no clear design objective. It has effectively made everything but major arkfall bosses a waste of time to participate in.

Griffix8
05-31-2014, 07:50 PM
A personal scoreboard, a board purely for damage, or no scoreboard at all is kind of what I'd go for. Only thing the scoreboard does for anyone is just to brag but so what? If you got the score for doing it the cheap way then what's to brag about? If you got the score for actually heavily contributing then cool.

If you're concerned about the damage being dealt then a personal scoreboard would be good. Heck maybe compare it to the top damage made or the average top damage.

PseudoCool
05-31-2014, 08:31 PM
What's worse: when you do TWO minor arkfalls solo and get NO rewards.. then do a third with one other person and NEITHER of you get any rewards. When score shows up as 0, kills are 0 and assists are 0 as well.

KasperSheitup
06-01-2014, 12:24 AM
I've stopped looking at leaderboards. It doesn't even matter anymore. I just click close when it pops up and go to something else.

Maida
06-01-2014, 03:21 AM
There are other problems with the scoring. I've been altering my loadout and weapon choices a little bit to see how it affects the score. When I go for max damage (based on DPS estimater someone posted on another thread Logain I think) I score really low. Switching to an SMG with a huge clip and my score jumps up a ton. I think it's due to collecting more teamwork points. why is shooting something at the same time considered teamwork? alternating shots can have a better tactical effect by not letting the enemy poke their head up. There really isn't any teamwork in the game. I'd describe the game more as a parallel shooter rather than co-op. You run around shooting the same things as other players but don't actually coordinate or communicate in any manor.

Almiel
06-01-2014, 11:52 AM
Another issue with this system isn't score-based at all but pursuit-based. There's a pursuit for landing the kill shot on the progenitor and the hellion. It's now virtually impossible to get this because EVERYone is shooting at the boss (it's literally the difference between placing 4th or "21st"). Before, some of those who already got the pursuit (like me) would focus on the small enemies giving others better odds at completing the pursuit. That to me defines coop play, not to mention distracting the little guys from those working on the boss. Now I can't help it, I shoot at the boss too, albeit with a slower RoF weapon like the FRC Assault Carbine.

Atticus Batman
06-01-2014, 06:33 PM
Another issue with this system isn't score-based at all but pursuit-based. There's a pursuit for landing the kill shot on the progenitor and the hellion. It's now virtually impossible to get this because EVERYone is shooting at the boss (it's literally the difference between placing 4th or "21st"). Before, some of those who already got the pursuit (like me) would focus on the small enemies giving others better odds at completing the pursuit. That to me defines coop play, not to mention distracting the little guys from those working on the boss. Now I can't help it, I shoot at the boss too, albeit with a slower RoF weapon like the FRC Assault Carbine.

I still quit firing when it's got a little health left most of the time. I don't care about score (Witch should not be shown in a Pve game anyway), so I shoot the little stuff most of the time instead of focusing on the boss.

Bonehead
06-01-2014, 07:32 PM
It needs to go back to dmg based numbers. Or, take the damned cap off the WM. Tired of hitting 102k in less than 2 minutes and spending the rest of the event scoring very little. Show me my damned dmg and have the rewards be based off that!

Way too simple a system to appeal to the creative team.

Maida
06-01-2014, 11:12 PM
This has probably been said but I go anyway.
They could easily show the final damage numbers and obscure the other players names. That way I could learn that my load out sucked and I did half the damage of the player above without knowing who it was.
The PVP scores are sort of like this where you can't see the other teams scores. I think that would solve the harrasment problem but still provide useful information

jackdaws_1999
06-02-2014, 08:59 AM
This has probably been said but I go anyway.
They could easily show the final damage numbers and obscure the other players names. That way I could learn that my load out sucked and I did half the damage of the player above without knowing who it was.
The PVP scores are sort of like this where you can't see the other teams scores. I think that would solve the harrasment problem but still provide useful information

I would settle for this, I would also settle for a personal score board that stated the total damage you did, and what percentage of the total damage done was dealt by you. This would help people keep track of how their builds were working, whether there was 2 people there, or 200, you would still be able to compare your own performance with others, while still not showing anyone else on the board.

Basically, we need to know how we are doing in order to craft out builds. Score is Meaningless to say the least. I have seen people get number 1 with 1 kill, people get 12th with over 600 kills, with no-one above them getting more than 40. Its completely borked at the moment, and the "dev" teams assertion that "those that typically did the most damage are those typically scoring the most" is mainly down to those individuals changing their builds to maximise "Score" not "Damage". I know of at least one "top damage dealer" who specifically uses sub par weapons to rack up teamwork, then switches to a high damage single shot weapon and goes for the Crit Kill-Nano effect-Ego Kill to maximise the final kill shot score, this ensures they get Number 1 on the board, but means that the overall damage they have done is well below average.

Leaderboards need to be changed, either just make them personal, or blank out the other names with XXXXXXXXXX's like is done for pvp sometimes, or have two overall boards, one for score, one for damage. That would certainly make some people think on how to maximise score and damage.

cary2010haha
06-02-2014, 09:39 AM
http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/486699290427474784/983AA7903247AC3217189522E6C11DBF7779797C/

the score system is fine, you kill more do more damage, you gain higher score.


if you think it's not fair, it just means you didn't strike hard enough.