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View Full Version : Upgrading Gunslinger Weapons' Rarity Will Be A Waste of 500 Arkforge



Overtkill21
06-01-2014, 12:34 PM
Hi everyone!

So we come to the first few Pay 2 Win - er... I mean Free 2 Play offerings this Tuesday and one will be the ability to upgrade the rarity of weapons all the way to Legendary.

If you're like many Arkhunters - you've been hording good Purples, Blues, and even some Greens in hopes of getting a really rare and great Legendary in your arsenal.

So for MOST of the weapons in Defiance this is completely OK and a great idea! All of the DLC weapons, faction weapons, and regular weapons will benefit...

EXCEPT Gunslinger Weapons - (Wildcat, EEC SMG, EEC other crap...)

You see, those weapons get a % Chance to initiate an Overcharge-Like Effect, a Blur-Like Effect etc. that is listed in their Description.

Green Gunslinger weapons get a 20% Chance, Blue get a 30% Chance, Purple get a 40% Chance, and Orange gets a 50% Chance.

So if you upgrade a Gunslinger weapon in rarity it would be GREAT if that chance also upgraded. But it doesn't. So when you upgrade that Blue, Double Crit Wildcat it'll be a nice Legendary, but only have a 30% Chance of initiating an Overcharge like effect on full reload - unlike REAL legendary Wildcats that will have a 50% Chance.

This has been a public service announcement so you don't waste your arkfraud...err Arkforge.

strife77
06-01-2014, 03:19 PM
where was it posted that they wont upgrade and why not ?

Atticus Batman
06-01-2014, 03:33 PM
where was it posted that they wont upgrade and why not ?

Here, hope this helps some.


i want to know what happends to the gunslinger guns. lets say you have a purple wildcat that has 40% chance of a overcharge like effect on full reload, when you upgrade it to orange will it stay at 40% or bump up to 50%?

I checked with the team and it looks like it will stay at 40%! :o

Etaew
06-01-2014, 03:45 PM
I'm not sure how to categorise this, in my eyes it's a bug that upgrading rarity also upgrades the rarity affecting bonuses. But as we've seen with the mastery re-roll statement it's not something it looks like they will cater for. They may offer the chance to re-roll other bonuses but the Gunslinger have bonuses applied in a different way and I doubt they would add a mechanic to re-roll those (although in a way that could be tied into shields).

ConcreteSnake
06-01-2014, 04:00 PM
Yea this bums me out a lot, I have a beautiful radiation grenadier double crit wildcat that is blue that I've been holding on to in case rarity upgrade ever happened, and to find out it will stay at 30% chance to cause overcharge like affect is disappointing. Even my purple eec dmg staying at 40% chance to cause blur like effect. I mean if its legendary it should be legendary not a Halfling or hybrid

Olaf
06-01-2014, 04:01 PM
not a big deal, hp6 all day lol unless ^^ u have a double crit rad hp7

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 04:32 PM
Good.

At least some weapons keep their prominence. The difference between an Ark Forged Oj and a True one.

ConcreteSnake
06-01-2014, 05:01 PM
Good.

At least some weapons keep their prominence. The difference between an Ark Forged Oj and a True one.

do you ever have anything positive ton say or are you always a negative nancy/debbie downer?

Olaf
06-01-2014, 05:36 PM
do you ever have anything positive ton say or are you always a negative nancy/debbie downer?

to be honest, i can see his concern.... it wont be long before trion are selling legendaries for bits (literally) in their bitstore.
i think this weapon upgrade rarity thing sounds far worse for the economy then 'rerolling specific rolls/nano/syn' of already existing legendaries (atleast they were earned properly)

hardy83
06-01-2014, 05:39 PM
to be honest, i can see his concern.... it wont be long before trion are selling legendaries for bits (literally) in their bitstore.
i think this weapon upgrade rarity thing sounds far worse for the economy then 'rerolling specific rolls/nano/syn' of already existing legendaries (atleast they were earned properly)

They've technically been doing that since day one with lockboxes that can contain legendaries.

I view this as a bug they don't care to fix, either anytime soon or not at all.
I guess it sucks... I guess, but meh. :P I can understand some people being irritated though.

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 05:39 PM
do you ever have anything positive ton say or are you always a negative nancy/debbie downer?

I like an idea of a balanced game. It keeps it fun and makes it worth playing. Ill always advocate how there should be balance in Defiance. The line has to be drawn some places or else everything melds into being the same.

Olaf
06-01-2014, 05:41 PM
They've technically been doing that since day one with lockboxes that can contain legendaries.

I view this as a bug they don't care to fix, either anytime soon or not at all.
I guess it sucks... I guess, but meh. :P I can understand some people being irritated though.

i mean literally selling legendaries, at least with lockbox's there is RnG... but i can see in the not so distant future a Weapons panel in the bitstore where they sell pre-rolled legendaries (e.g. Rolling Thunder VBI Assault Rifle BIO with 3x DMG rolls, or HP6 Wolfhound Fire with 2x Crit and 1x OJ DMG + Assassin)

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 05:51 PM
... i can see in the not so distant future a Weapons panel in the bitstore where they sell pre-rolled legendaries (e.g. Rolling Thunder VBI Assault Rifle BIO with 3x DMG rolls, or HP6 Wolfhound Fire with 2x Crit and 1x OJ DMG + Assassin)

http://i.imgur.com/6gTVlaG.jpg

Seizan
06-01-2014, 06:47 PM
The term "balance" does not belong in the same sentence as Defiance. If gameplay balance is something you are looking for, then search elsewhere. How can you honestly preach balance in a game where better gear = superiority?!

Want balance and fairness? Go play real competitive shooters where players are given the same arsenal of weapons to choose from.

Overtkill21
06-01-2014, 07:20 PM
After all this time - I could spend my days screaming into the bottomless pit about balance, logic, sense, etc. but I choose to take what they decide to turn this game into and build my fun, however short-lived, around it - I just like to let other folks know about this kind of crap so they don't come on here on Tuesday and start 20 threads about how their new Legendary Wildcat is poop.

Bonehead
06-01-2014, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the good info Overt.
FWIW balance went out the window when threat scaling was introduced imho.
Good point about the balance logic and sense.
It just is what it is.

hardy83
06-01-2014, 08:03 PM
do you ever have anything positive ton say or are you always a negative nancy/debbie downer?

....You must be new to MMOs. lol
MMO forums are about 95% negative rants/complaints/trolling, 4% constructive feedback and 1% positive comments.

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 08:42 PM
Balance does have a place in Defiance ppl. If it didn't then the game would of shipped with the Plasma Pulsar still in it, vehicles would still be able to just run everything over, the Surge Bolter would of stayed over powered in all fields, and threat levels would never be something looked into ect. ect. The list of great balanced changes that have been bestowed upon Defiance goes on.

And whats one thing I ever pointed out as unbalanced when really its not/wasn't? And I do my fair share of saying how some things in the game need buffs as well.

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 09:00 PM
actually when positive stuff comes along you seem to state the opposite, id be ok of you left the game and never came back....at this point with all that you post I don't like you and never will, this game is not about balance and even this...all guns that upgrade to OJ are the same except gunslinger guns which I paid to use and have never gotten 1 OJ from a gunslinger box, this is not balance it is poor coding and technique. Go Away Nefarious, far far away, and never come back.

btw this reminds me of this.


http://youtu.be/O_aziIIp8U8?t=1m29s

Burned In Effigy
06-01-2014, 09:07 PM
I should be jaded by now with the way the game has been handled and the constant dcing and hard freezes but I eat rainbow flavored unicorn poop and I truly believe this game will be the game we ALL want it to be. I've gotten my moneys worth and then some from this game and have met some of the coolest ppl here. I'm gonna stick around til the wheels fall off.

ConcreteSnake
06-01-2014, 09:37 PM
Balance does have a place in Defiance ppl. If it didn't then the game would of shipped with the Plasma Pulsar still in it, vehicles would still be able to just run everything over, the Surge Bolter would of stayed over powered in all fields, and threat levels would never be something looked into ect. ect. The list of great balanced changes that have been bestowed upon Defiance goes on.

And whats one thing I ever pointed out as unbalanced when really its not/wasn't? And I do my fair share of saying how some things in the game need buffs as well.

http://www.gifbooster.com/wp-content/uploads/4947/stephen-colbert-eats-popcorn_39.gif

thejx4
06-01-2014, 09:50 PM
do you ever have anything positive ton say or are you always a negative nancy/debbie downer?

I mean, he has a point. That stops it from being P2W. You have to earn the legendary to get the full effect.

Overtkill21
06-01-2014, 09:57 PM
I mean, he has a point. That stops it from being P2W. You have to earn the legendary to get the full effect.

No, that isn't the point at all, in fact you and he are acting as if this is an purposeful act of balance on the parts of the Devs, when it is most assuredly an oversight in programming.

There is no such thing as "earning" a legendary - Random is random - it isn't earning squat.

It also does nothing to stop Pay-To-Win or even make a dent in it. Gunslinger weapons may be neat but they are not the best in game - and all of those other, better weapons? Yeah find a blue and get your legendary version for cash - not a kind of legendary - a full regular legendary.

So there ya go.

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 10:03 PM
What about shields and the % to whatever ability they have. Should the % of their ability increase upon upgrading rarity as well? Its kinda the same thing with Gun Slinger weapons.

Overtkill21
06-01-2014, 10:15 PM
What about shields and the % to whatever ability they have. Should the % of their ability increase upon upgrading rarity as well? Its kinda the same thing with Gun Slinger weapons.

Are you joking? Do you honestly not understand that there are orange 25% HP Regen, 50% HP Regen, 75% HP Regen and 100% Regen - as there are different %'s in orange for Reload, and everything else.

LOL at this reply. It's not "kinda the same thing" at all.

The % has never made it a legendary. So try another.

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 10:24 PM
Are you joking? Do you honestly not understand that there are orange 25% HP Regen, 50% HP Regen, 75% HP Regen and 100% Regen - as there are different %'s in orange for Reload, and everything else.

LOL at this reply. It's not "kinda the same thing" at all.

The % has never made it a legendary. So try another.

Maybe you should try to get yourself actually Legendary Gunslinger weapons that have the high bonus % instead of wanting to pawn it off by using Ark Forge to do so. Stop being such a noob.

Overtkill21
06-01-2014, 10:29 PM
Maybe you should try to get yourself actually Legendary Gunslinger weapons that have the high bonus % instead of wanting to pawn it off by using Ark Forge to do so. Stop being such a noob.

Awww did I hurt your feelings? You and your % makes it legendary shields calling me a noob is priceless!

LOL

Noobfarious

Nefarious
06-01-2014, 10:40 PM
Awww did I hurt your feelings? You and your % makes it legendary shields calling me a noob is priceless

LOL

Noobfarious

And Im troll.. :rolleyes:

You seem to be the one butt hurt here. And get over yourself, I know how shields work and its a vague comparison I made. That's why I said "kinda". The % to abilities with Gunslinger weapons is sensitive thing and its good that Trion is not going to allow them to be boosted when upgrading rarity. 50% on some things is pretty big. As if Defiance doesn't have easy access to enough over powered things that make a lot of other weapons and perks obsolete as it is. But your to dumb it seems to keep that in the fore front.

You even underlined this yourself in your original post by pointing out Pay 2 Win, REAL legendary, and arkfraud .

So which one is it. Are you for Gunslinger weapons getting their abilities boosted when upgrading rarity? Or are you against it because in doing so its pay to win with the use of arkfraud?

drackiller
06-02-2014, 02:09 AM
I will say this once in this thread and only once, I HAVE LEGENDARIES FROM ALL THE DLC`s, i don`t need to make new ones.

BUT I WILL because i want to.

By the way, ty Overtkill for this info.

Ps: i found yesterday in an alternate char an EMC Service rifle, forgot that i had one. I also have the mods for it, Precision :) in my main char. See? ORANGE :)

Overtkill21
06-02-2014, 04:26 AM
And Im troll.. :rolleyes:

You seem to be the one butt hurt here. And get over yourself, I know how shields work and its a vague comparison I made. That's why I said "kinda". The % to abilities with Gunslinger weapons is sensitive thing and its good that Trion is not going to allow them to be boosted when upgrading rarity. 50% on some things is pretty big. As if Defiance doesn't have easy access to enough over powered things that make a lot of other weapons and perks obsolete as it is. But your to dumb it seems to keep that in the fore front.

You even underlined this yourself in your original post by pointing out Pay 2 Win, REAL legendary, and arkfraud .

So which one is it. Are you for Gunslinger weapons getting their abilities boosted when upgrading rarity? Or are you against it because in doing so its pay to win with the use of arkfraud?

You are well and truly a troll. Why don't you leave this thread with your garbage misinformation about Shields and their percentage that makes them legendary? I don't have either the time nor inclination to go back and forth with someone with obvious inferior game knowledge.

So we earn Legendary weapons huh? I'm some kind of noob for not pulling an Orange Wildcat with the fantastic RNG? LOL

Thanks for painting yourself so well with that noob brush, Noobfarious!

But it's ok, you'll figure it out - just not on one of my threads. Go start your own, I'm sure you'll get tons of replies. I mean, everyone wants to talk to an ignorant pessimistic noob, right?

Pandur
06-02-2014, 04:56 AM
Thanks for the info.
My guess is it's not a oversight but something Trion deems too hard to incorporate, much like old guns not getting their blue rolls.



The % to abilities with Gunslinger weapons is sensitive thing and its good that Trion is not going to allow them to be boosted when upgrading rarity.

You really believe Trion intentionally left out the gunslinger weapon bonues from upgrading because of balancing issues ?
Sorry but with the companies track record on balancing and bugs this seems pretty delusional.

Quebra Regra
06-02-2014, 07:04 AM
Good.

At least some weapons keep their prominence. The difference between an Ark Forged Oj and a True one.

yes, the game will now be flooded with inferior ersatz OJs. :( This seems like a bad idea.

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 07:44 AM
No, that isn't the point at all, in fact you and he are acting as if this is an purposeful act of balance on the parts of the Devs, when it is most assuredly an oversight in programming.

There is no such thing as "earning" a legendary - Random is random - it isn't earning squat.

It also does nothing to stop Pay-To-Win or even make a dent in it. Gunslinger weapons may be neat but they are not the best in game - and all of those other, better weapons? Yeah find a blue and get your legendary version for cash - not a kind of legendary - a full regular legendary.

So there ya go.

Agree, just another oversight to not give the effect % chance an upgrade along with the orange roll. Trion's history is pretty spotty on the success rate of bringing balance to the game. They do seem to try to balance things...but there's always some oversight issue.

The unfortunate part is a few players with questionable trading practice will try to pass these lesser OJ's off on new players. The weapons in Defiance are plenty complicated and it takes a long time to understand.

The other less unfortunate part is trading will be reduced to unicorns and purple mods. Things will slow way, way down. I don't know why but it appears Trion wants trading to die - just another decision they've made that seems to defy any kind of logic. I don't trade much, but I know it's a big part of the game for a lot of veteran players so they might end up leaving the game.

So, it is what it is, thanks Overtkill for pointing this out. I didn't realize my EEC SMG's might not be worth it...I'm still upgrading one of them anyway, but not both.

ConcreteSnake
06-02-2014, 07:46 AM
Maybe you should try to get yourself actually Legendary Gunslinger weapons that have the high bonus % instead of wanting to pawn it off by using Ark Forge to do so. Stop being such a noob.

see that's the problem, I play everyday with 2 main characters running daily and weekly contracts and have only pulled gunslinger boxes with both since the day of was available and not 1 OJ.....same with 7th legion, 2 OJ shields for all I've done and yet I know people who have pulled multiple summimotos or get an OJ from almost every box. I was excited about rarity upgrades because the RNG for me sucks and I could finally get a few nice dlc OJs that I PAID to be able to use, and instead I get half-breed bl-oranges. I have played tho game non stop everyday for over 6 months and skipped some good games on my Xbox one because I don't get a ton of time to play games and this is about to be the straw that breaks the camels back and makes me leave. The incompetence the developers have show they don't deserve my time when I've already given them my money.

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 07:51 AM
see that's the problem, I play everyday with 2 main characters running daily and weekly contracts and have only pulled gunslinger boxes with both since the day of was available and not 1 OJ.....same with 7th legion, 2 OJ shields for all I've done and yet I know people who have pulled multiple summimotos or get an OJ from almost every box. I was excited about rarity upgrades because the RNG for me sucks and I could finally get a few nice dlc OJs that I PAID to be able to use, and instead I get half-breed bl-oranges. I have played tho game non stop everyday for over 6 months and skipped some good games on my Xbox one because I don't get a ton of time to play games and this is about to be the straw that breaks the camels back and makes me leave. The incompetence the developers have show they don't deserve my time when I've already given them my money.

RNG sucks for everyone...BUT much to my surprise I got an OJ Mass XL Ground Splitter on Saturday. 2nd Gunslinger legendary I've gotten after HOW much time? The other is the KLOC pistol whatever it's called. But yeah, why a DLC would be released and have all the OJ's hidden inside a lottery system bears no sane logic that I can see. *ahem* that's a near-derail, sorry!

Overtkill21
06-02-2014, 10:32 AM
I'll just touch the effect on trading that this is having and will continue to have:

It is going to completely die. In fact on PS3 it practically already has.

No one sells or trades even Purple Mods because no one is buying them - I'm not, and I know practically no one else is either. Our rep is more valuable for spending on Faction weapons. Our keys are more valuable for possible Arkforge.

Many of the decisions that have been made by Trion are clear mistakes - and in my opinion, allowing an entire segment of players and one of the myriad of ways to play this game die out is as big a mistake as they have ever made.

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 10:48 AM
I'll just touch the effect on trading that this is having and will continue to have:

It is going to completely die. In fact on PS3 it practically already has.

No one sells or trades even Purple Mods because no one is buying them - I'm not, and I know practically no one else is either. Our rep is more valuable for spending on Faction weapons. Our keys are more valuable for possible Arkforge.

Many of the decisions that have been made by Trion are clear mistakes - and in my opinion, allowing an entire segment of players and one of the myriad of ways to play this game die out is as big a mistake as they have ever made.

You know what, you're right - trading is dying already. My trading friends are not really finalizing trades these days, more like browsing each other's stuff and saying no thanks. A few rare purple mods have bounties on them but other stuff, no one wants or no one has.

Maybe there's a future plan to put all this stuff in the bit store instead so they're trying to kill trading NOW ahead of time? That's the only logic I can think of that fits this plan. Well except the ol' "servers will be shut down" predictions - so give us some OJ's while there's still time.

Nefarious
06-02-2014, 11:29 AM
You are well and truly a troll. Why don't you leave this thread with your garbage misinformation about Shields and their percentage that makes them legendary? I don't have either the time nor inclination to go back and forth with someone with obvious inferior game knowledge.

So we earn Legendary weapons huh? I'm some kind of noob for not pulling an Orange Wildcat with the fantastic RNG? LOL

Thanks for painting yourself so well with that noob brush, Noobfarious!

But it's ok, you'll figure it out - just not on one of my threads. Go start your own, I'm sure you'll get tons of replies. I mean, everyone wants to talk to an ignorant pessimistic noob, right?

Misinformation? I don't think anyone became miss informed by the comparison I made with shields. Its not like Im some peter sucker like some forum members here saying Cloak and Zaggers are balanced features. That would be misinformation.

Keep supporting the idea of arkfraud while also going against it. You are clearly a two sided pop tart.





















LOL

Overtkill21
06-02-2014, 11:38 AM
Misinformation? I don't think anyone became miss informed by the comparison I made with shields. Its not like Im some peter sucker like some forum members here saying Cloak and Zaggers are balanced features. That would be misinformation.

Keep supporting the idea of arkfraud while also going against it. You are clearly a two sided pop tart.

You must enjoy putting in your ridiculous two cents and having it worth half. Listen, I work with what I am given - you just whine and complain and whine some more - you support ridiculous ideas and you are honestly just a pain to interact with. I don't like you, my thread likes you less. Seriously go make your own, see how many of us chime in on your little Debbie thread.

Save your garbage mega-spaced "LOL" too - taking up space and time on my thread. Get lost.

Nefarious
06-02-2014, 11:51 AM
You really believe Trion intentionally left out the gunslinger weapon bonues from upgrading because of balancing issues ?
Sorry but with the companies track record on balancing and bugs this seems pretty delusional.

Read post #18, its not delusional to know that Trion looks to balance things in the game. I do believe Trion intentionally didn't put effort into Gunslinger weapons and left them out from upgrading fully because of balancing issues. Although some things introduced in the game are unbalanced I don't think Trion makes an effort to do so and slowly as time permits they fix these unbalances.

And its not like I have all these Oj Gunslinger guns. I have none myself. But at least I have the decency to admit that if these 50% Ojs were to just be made it would not be good for the over all balance of the game. There is no need to throw more unbalance on the unbalance pile to push everything else below it even further down.

Players will be able to make Oj weapons as is with Ark forge. God forbid the very most sought out versions of these weapons stay rare.

Nefarious
06-02-2014, 11:53 AM
You must enjoy putting in your ridiculous two cents and having it worth half. Listen, I work with what I am given - you just whine and complain and whine some more - you support ridiculous ideas and you are honestly just a pain to interact with. I don't like you, my thread likes you less. Seriously go make your own, see how many of us chime in on your little Debbie thread.

Save your garbage mega-spaced "LOL" too - taking up space and time on my thread. Get lost.

Awww did I hurt your feelings?

Overtkill21
06-02-2014, 11:56 AM
Read post #21, its not delusional to know that looks to balance things in the game. I do believe Trion intentionally didn't put effort into Gunslinger weapons and left them out from upgrading fully because of balancing issues. Although things introduced in the game are unbalanced I don't think Trion makes an effort to do so and slowly as time permits they fix these unbalances...

You must not have been paying attention. Intentional - Freakin' hilarious.

Frequently deluded people are unable, or extremely unwilling, to admit their delusion. I suppose it follows given that admission harms their ego and living in la-la land feeds it.

It's ok Nefarious, you're still right in your own mind.

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 11:57 AM
Awww did I hurt your feelings?

He called you a troll, now you act like one? BOTH OF YOU, this thread is devolving into uselessness. Overtkill was just pointing out in the OP that gunslinger weapons will not get the % effect trigger increase that a true OJ would have.

Nef, you're neither a noob nor a troll so grow up and be helpful, instead of contrary.

Overt, stop buying into his crap.

Overtkill21
06-02-2014, 11:57 AM
Awww did I hurt your feelings?

You must not take a hint very well. Get lost - as in leave, you add nothing to this thread except ignorance and your little poop attitude. Go make your own thread about how this is so great and adds balance and was intentionally done and we'll all be sure to ignore it as I now do you.

N3gativeCr33p
06-02-2014, 12:05 PM
Nef, you're neither a noob nor a troll so grow up and be helpful, instead of contrary.

Overt, stop buying into his crap.

Don't make her turn that car around! ;)

Nefarious
06-02-2014, 12:06 PM
You must not take a hint very well. Get lost - as in leave, you add nothing to this thread except ignorance and your little poop attitude. Go make your own thread about how this is so great and adds balance and was intentionally done and we'll all be sure to ignore it as I now do you.

You know I just copied and pasted your our **** head response. LOL.

I started this thread with civil posts and continued to do so until everyone started bugging out. I know for a fact my points are valid.

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 12:08 PM
You know I just copied and pasted your our **** head response. LOL.

I started this thread with civil posts and continued to do so until everyone started bugging out. I know for a fact my points are valid.

It's more about presentation than validity.

Nefarious
06-02-2014, 12:10 PM
Overtkill was just pointing out in the OP that gunslinger weapons will not get the % effect trigger increase that a true OJ would have.

Yeah and I stated how that was a good thing.

Some things in the game need to keep their prominence. If saying that is "troll baiting" or whatever then you ppl are hopeless.

ConcreteSnake
06-02-2014, 12:13 PM
Read post #21, its not delusional to know that Trion looks to balance things in the game. I do believe Trion intentionally didn't put effort into Gunslinger weapons and left them out from upgrading fully because of balancing issues. Although some things introduced in the game are unbalanced I don't think Trion makes an effort to do so and slowly as time permits they fix these unbalances.

And its not like I have all these Oj Gunslinger guns. I have none myself. But at least I have the decency to admit that if these 50% Ojs were to just be made it would not be good for the over all balance of the game. There is no need to throw more unbalance on the unbalance pile to push everything else below it even further down.

Players will be able to make Oj weapons as is with Ark forge. God forbid the very most sought out versions of these weapons stay rare.

so would you admit they made it so you can take a green quartermaster zagger and turn it into a legendary zero reload zagger intentional for balance? Or the faction weapons and other dlc items like the summimoto don't lose their inherent bonuses for balance? You are ridiculous Nef. Gunsliger items are the only ones being affected and you say its on purpose for balance?




LOL

so much more id like to say but then id be feeding the troll, and at this point id rather you starve.

ConcreteSnake
06-02-2014, 12:20 PM
Yeah and I stated how that was a good thing.

Some things in the game need to keep their prominence. If saying that is "troll baiting" or whatever then you ppl are hopeless.

so you're saying its ok to put content behind a pay wall, then behind another RNG wall, then when I have the ability to finally get a decent item that I paid to use and can upgrade it, it can be gimped at the knee and made into something that is a hybrid......and to keep prominence for what? To visually show that I paid to access content that was locked behind a wall and I still got screwed in the end? Do you hear yourself or are you wearing ear plugs?

its ok to make all other content equal but not the gunslinger dlc which in my opinion was the worst of the bunch other than a few neat weapons that are only better than original versions due to their effect % chance. All warmaster weapons can have the same rolls, all summimotos can have inherent x1.10 fire rate, all faction weapons cam have added x1.10 dmg, but a wildcat or eec smg only gets to have 30%-40% chance of effect trigger? Wow you make no sense or cents.

Nefarious
06-02-2014, 12:30 PM
so would you admit they made it so you can take a green quartermaster zagger and turn it into a legendary zero reload zagger intentional for balance? Or the faction weapons and other dlc items like the summimoto don't lose their inherent bonuses for balance? You are ridiculous Nef. Gunsliger items are the only ones being affected and you say its on purpose for balance?




LOL

so much more id like to say but then id be feeding the troll, and at this point id rather you starve.

The inherent bonuses for some Gunslinger weapons are much more powerful. You know, activating Ego Powers and such.

And its no secret how I feel about the bonus rolls that make up the Zagger. Your whole point about a green Zagger being upgraded to an Oj would fall under my point of..."Although some things introduced in the game are unbalanced I don't think Trion makes an effort to do so and slowly as time permits they fix these unbalances."

I do think without a doubt that Ego Recharges on reload along with Speed Boost on reload will get cool down times which is the number 1 case that makes Zaggers over powered. And who knows maybe in time weapon rolls in general will be looked into.

Is this comment of mine still trolling?

You know when I troll I put down a sign saying so. Like my threads that have taking so much heat named Trolling Defiance part..whatever number.. or my post have a funny gif image or video.

So far in this thread Ive advocated for Defiance having balance...but that's considered Trolling?? And I haven't said anything to anyone here that didn't have it coming.












LOL

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 12:31 PM
Yeah and I stated how that was a good thing.

Some things in the game need to keep their prominence. If saying that is "troll baiting" or whatever then you ppl are hopeless.

Not sure it was troll baiting before but it is now. Calling everyone hopeless? Yep.

Not to mention you say things in such a way as to invite anger. I sure seems like you do it on purpose. Kind of the definition of trolling, isn't it?

If you could simply state your opinions without injecting venom, that would be an improvement.

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 12:34 PM
Don't make her turn that car around! ;)

Sorry kids, we're GOING HOME! No field trip, you're all in trouble!

Nefarious
06-02-2014, 12:39 PM
Not sure it was troll baiting before but it is now. Calling everyone hopeless? Yep.

Not to mention you say things in such a way as to invite anger. I sure seems like you do it on purpose. Kind of the definition of trolling, isn't it?

If you could simply state your opinions without injecting venom, that would be an improvement.

Oh yeah because lets look past the insults and 'venom injecting' comments directly towards me that started this lulzy ride in the first place. That's cool though because I know there's a fine line between love and hate...and you ppl love me!

N3gativeCr33p
06-02-2014, 01:04 PM
Sorry kids, we're GOING HOME! No field trip, you're all in trouble!

Awwwww.... :(

http://images.smh.com.au/2013/02/07/4013015/tantrum-300x0.jpg

HeatherQc
06-02-2014, 01:41 PM
The term "balance" does not belong in the same sentence as Defiance. If gameplay balance is something you are looking for, then search elsewhere. How can you honestly preach balance in a game where better gear = superiority?!

Want balance and fairness? Go play real competitive shooters where players are given the same arsenal of weapons to choose from.

The game was balance and fairness before the DLP 5 was release.

dramaQkarri
06-02-2014, 01:48 PM
The game was balance and fairness before the DLP 5 was release.

I'd say it was closer, but so many issues have made Defiance unbalanced and unfair in a lot of events from the start. I wish they'd get it right.

Tallon
06-02-2014, 04:04 PM
Oh yeah because lets look past the insults and 'venom injecting' comments directly towards me that started this lulzy ride in the first place. That's cool though because I know there's a fine line between love and hate...and you ppl love me!

Hmmm... love is a bit of a strong word.... I do however "strongly like" reading your posts "in a purely non-sexual manner".
(that would be kinda weird otherwise)

Ashlocke
06-02-2014, 05:54 PM
I mean, he has a point. That stops it from being P2W. You have to earn the legendary to get the full effect.

This would be fine if it applied to all weapons, as in, every single weapon that you upgrade to orange is slightly inferior than an actual orange, but that's not the case. You will be able to EARN an orange by EARNING all of the arkforge it takes to upgrade it to an EARNED orange and it will be a 100% full effect orange. Unless it's a gunslinger weapon, because for whatever reason those won't upgrade completely.

Here's an idea, how about you Devs make it so it costs 100% to upgrade it to a 100% orange, and the "brown" weapons that only upgrade to what amounts to 80% of an orange equivalent weapon only cost 80% of the cost to upgrade, sounds fair right? Why should we pay 100% of the cost to only receive 80% of the return.

Sorry, one of the few things that really grinds my gears is feeling like I'm getting gypped.

EDIT: All the talk of game balance I've heard over the years is just silly, there's no such thing.
1) It's a business, and it's goal is to make money.
2) It's a game, and it's goal is to be fun.
3) It's ALL about perception, NOT balance.

Can something be balanced and fun, yes.
Can something be balanced and NOT fun, yes.
If something isn't fun, but is balanced, is that a good thing? Absolutely not.

For a developer, what would be a better investment of resources, to balance something that isn't fun, or to make something fun that isn't balanced? Fun trumps balance always because that's how you keep the money rolling in.

When a player's perception is that something is fun they stay and spend money. When a player's perception is that something isn't fun, I can guarantee you that person isn't thinking: "Gee this isn't any fun at all, but hey, it's balanced so I'm going to stay and spend more money."

Perception, perception perception. All else is secondary.

Atticus Batman
06-02-2014, 06:14 PM
of the few things that really grinds my gears is feeling like I'm getting gypped.

He said it! Lol sorry to much family guy.

soooo....
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/559/159/db7.jpg

drackiller
06-03-2014, 02:02 AM
This would be fine if it applied to all weapons, as in, every single weapon that you upgrade to orange is slightly inferior than an actual orange, but that's not the case. You will be able to EARN an orange by EARNING all of the arkforge it takes to upgrade it to an EARNED orange and it will be a 100% full effect orange. Unless it's a gunslinger weapon, because for whatever reason those won't upgrade completely.

Here's an idea, how about you Devs make it so it costs 100% to upgrade it to a 100% orange, and the "brown" weapons that only upgrade to what amounts to 80% of an orange equivalent weapon only cost 80% of the cost to upgrade, sounds fair right? Why should we pay 100% of the cost to only receive 80% of the return.

Sorry, one of the few things that really grinds my gears is feeling like I'm getting gypped.

EDIT: All the talk of game balance I've heard over the years is just silly, there's no such thing.
1) It's a business, and it's goal is to make money.
2) It's a game, and it's goal is to be fun.
3) It's ALL about perception, NOT balance.

Can something be balanced and fun, yes.
Can something be balanced and NOT fun, yes.
If some isn't fun, but is balanced, is that a good thing? Absolutely not.

For a developer, what would be a better investment of resources, to balance something that isn't fun, or to make something fun that isn't balanced? Fun trumps balance always because that's how you keep the money rolling in.

When a player's perception is that something is fun they stay and spend money. When a player's perception is that something isn't fun, I can guarantee you that person isn't thinking: "Gee this isn't any fun at all, but hey, it's balanced so I'm going to stay and spend more money."

Perception, perception perception. All else is secondary.
I like the way you think :)

drackiller
06-03-2014, 02:05 AM
To put this thread back on topic, i have a question.
Does this situation aplies only to GS guns or other faction types of weapons ?
I don`t want to waste arkforge.

Atticus Batman
06-03-2014, 02:13 AM
To put this thread back on topic, i have a question.
Does this situation aplies only to GS guns or other faction types of weapons ?
I don`t want to waste arkforge.

I asked that and got ignored, so good luck.

drackiller
06-03-2014, 02:18 AM
I asked that and got ignored, so good luck.

We just need to wait some more to see for ourselves then ;)

Extreme Rugburn
06-03-2014, 09:19 AM
Beware buyers!! You know people will upgrade these things and try to sell to unsuspecting people. Better check those percentages before purchasing my friend!

Overtkill21
06-03-2014, 10:06 AM
To put this thread back on topic, i have a question.
Does this situation aplies only to GS guns or other faction types of weapons ?
I don`t want to waste arkforge.

I believe, this situation only applies to Gunslinger weapons.

The only other weapons that would be remotely in the same boat are the 7th Legion Weapons. The 7th Legion weapons have a stat listed in their description but it is not quantified like the Gunslinger weapons are. Regardless of rarity - 7th Legion weapons get the same bonus that is listed in their description - so all colors of Sumimotos get a natural x1.10 Fire Rate boost, all colors of Wanyu get the same mag boost, etc.

Faction weapons - Top Notch, VBI, & Soleptor, regular weapons, and even quest weapons do not have any stat that would make them fall victim to this oversight in programming.

drackiller
06-03-2014, 01:29 PM
I believe, this situation only applies to Gunslinger weapons.

The only other weapons that would be remotely in the same boat are the 7th Legion Weapons. The 7th Legion weapons have a stat listed in their description but it is not quantified like the Gunslinger weapons are. Regardless of rarity - 7th Legion weapons get the same bonus that is listed in their description - so all colors of Sumimotos get a natural x1.10 Fire Rate boost, all colors of Wanyu get the same mag boost, etc.

Faction weapons - Top Notch, VBI, & Soleptor, regular weapons, and even quest weapons do not have any stat that would make them fall victim to this oversight in programming.

Ty Overt :)

MagnusRune Daltus
06-03-2014, 02:00 PM
i did some testing in a duel with my OJ wildcat and it did NO extra damage when the overcharge activated.... it was 752 per shot with and without, i think it is sadly a cosmetic thing.

i then activated my overcharge and got the 30% extra damage....

so what level of overcharge should it give you

Overtkill21
06-03-2014, 02:32 PM
i did some testing in a duel with my OJ wildcat and it did NO extra damage when the overcharge activated.... it was 752 per shot with and without, i think it is sadly a cosmetic thing.

i then activated my overcharge and got the 30% extra damage....

so what level of overcharge should it give you

Well that is interesting. I know it is supposed to be an "overcharge-like effect" but it does not specify strength.

I have seen the EEC SMG give a player the "blur-like effect" though.

Quebra Regra
06-03-2014, 02:59 PM
If you'll recall, I asked about the "strength and nature" of the WILDCAT overcharge effect in a thread I called "THUNDERCAT"!

There was no answer supplied on the level of overcharge, nor is perks affected it. Anybody test this?

konstantinov
06-03-2014, 03:10 PM
Well that is interesting. I know it is supposed to be an "overcharge-like effect" but it does not specify strength.

I have seen the EEC SMG give a player the "blur-like effect" though.

I can confirm that the EEC SMG blur-like effect does work.

TheOz
06-03-2014, 03:25 PM
I can confirm that the EEC SMG blur-like effect does work.

Yes, indeed it does work. I have an OJ one on my lower character and it is glorious.
Swift Succubus

Midori Oku
06-03-2014, 07:25 PM
As cool as it would be, there still an upgrade to the weapon no matter how you look at it. I'm not too upset about it.

Overtkill21
06-03-2014, 08:12 PM
As cool as it would be, there still an upgrade to the weapon no matter how you look at it. I'm not too upset about it.

I'm not either - just another little inconsistency in programming that speaks to larger problems.

I'm upgrading all sort of schtako to Legendary tomorrow, I have loads of Arkforge saved up like some OCD squirrel.

Bonehead
06-03-2014, 10:43 PM
I'm not either - just another little inconsistency in programming that speaks to larger problems.

I'm upgrading all sort of schtako to Legendary tomorrow, I have loads of Arkforge saved up like some OCD squirrel.

http://scubasquirrel.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/funny-pictures-squirrels-have-discovered-coffee.jpg

drackiller
06-04-2014, 12:14 AM
Upgrading weapons for some of us will be like this :

http://youtu.be/dI9fF-A4XLM

Enjoy the Glory of it :)

Bonehead
06-04-2014, 12:42 AM
I like Vivaldi. Don't care as much for the synthesized versions though.

drackiller
06-04-2014, 04:51 AM
I like Vivaldi. Don't care as much for the synthesized versions though.

Yeah , i know what you mean. But i love classic music, not all kind, but love it.

Nox Hender
07-08-2014, 03:06 AM
Hi mates,

I bump those post for ask you a question;

You know in programing, some things are easy to edit to others; a text is more easily editable tan a image

Then, here i come:
Gunslinger weapons is the only geapon in game that have a status in the (lets to call them) "upper mini-window weapon description box"

Maybe, just maybe, these mini-window box
".... weapon have a 30% chance to provoke a blur like effect ..."
are in fact AN IMAGE

Maybe (im testing it) if you upgrade rarity, the status % are upgraded correctly (+10% per rarity level) BUT the image remains the same, and don't show it


--------------------


Second question, any of you can help me to test if perks affect those "free" powers? im doing run test without any mod or perk, I think the easy way to test it is with the duration perks and timing

My first results: a weapon gived power (blur tested) is 1/3 durable of the same power player-manualy activated

need more tests


Sorry for my bad english, im not native.

Deirachel
07-08-2014, 09:39 PM
Hi mates,

I bump those post for ask you a question;

You know in programing, some things are easy to edit to others; a text is more easily editable tan a image

Then, here i come:
Gunslinger weapons is the only geapon in game that have a status in the (lets to call them) "upper mini-window weapon description box"

Maybe, just maybe, these mini-window box
".... weapon have a 30% chance to provoke a blur like effect ..."
are in fact AN IMAGE

Maybe (im testing it) if you upgrade rarity, the status % are upgraded correctly (+10% per rarity level) BUT the image remains the same, and don't show it

No, it doesn't affect the percentage at all; hidden or not. No special ability in the equipment description text is changed by upgrading said equipment. (7th Legion Shields Zanzou also have this type of special effect with a Decoy, but it is not affected by rarity.)




Second question, any of you can help me to test if perks affect those "free" powers? im doing run test without any mod or perk, I think the easy way to test it is with the duration perks and timing

My first results: a weapon gived power (blur tested) is 1/3 durable of the same power player-manualy activated

need more tests


Sorry for my bad english, im not native.

Yes, to a point. For example, the overcharge-like effect on a Wildcat is affected by the reduce cooldown (Quick Charge)/extended duration perks (Killing Machine) for Overcharge. Also, Overload processes and you reload faster, while this effect is in play. This change does not affect the actual power in question; so, Overcharge in our above example still also has the reduced cooldown/extended duration.

However, other perks which reduce the cooldown/extend the duration of ANY EGO power do NOT affect the effect of the weapon/shield. Going back to our above example: Bloodlust, Time Out, and Pumped Up will not change the Overcharge-like effect of the Wildcat.

So, short form: If a perk has the name of a power on it, and the power is the one mentioned in the description text, then the perk will work with it.

Nox Hender
07-09-2014, 03:57 AM
I realy like to find a legendary one (true 50%), and then upgrade one green to legendary and check it for myself

The hard part is to find the legendary, i'm doig arenas in party with a friend and we archieve gold rating , 200.000+

But only obtain crappy greeens



If it's realy not upgrading with salvagematrix, maybe we can send a tiket to support desk, claiming a bug, upgrading rarity have been problematic and buggy since the first day



Perk of "+6 sec to duration in blur" are NOT working with Blur triggered via EEC SMG (tested today)

Overtkill21
07-11-2014, 10:53 AM
I realy like to find a legendary one (true 50%), and then upgrade one green to legendary and check it for myself

The hard part is to find the legendary, i'm doig arenas in party with a friend and we archieve gold rating , 200.000+

But only obtain crappy greeens



If it's realy not upgrading with salvagematrix, maybe we can send a tiket to support desk, claiming a bug, upgrading rarity have been problematic and buggy since the first day



Perk of "+6 sec to duration in blur" are NOT working with Blur triggered via EEC SMG (tested today)

Hi Nox!

Thanks for replying to this ol' thread o'mine.

Couple things:

1. Upgrading the Gunslinger weapons doesn't upgrade the percentage chance of initiating a "EGO power-like" effect. Tested on a few weapons and this is true - unless this was fixed in the past few weeks? (Doubtful)

2. The effect that the Gunslinger weapons create is NOT an EGO power - it's Overcharge-Like, not Overcharge, it's Blur-Like and not Blur - hence any perk that would affect an EGO power won't affect a Gunslinger weapon effect.

Hope that helps sir!

Nox Hender
07-14-2014, 06:49 AM
Hi mate,

It seems that this issue is not being to be resolved early, meanwile I take 100 arkforege and upgraded a EEC SMG, then I send a tiket via ingame support.

(reporting it like a bug)


4 days ago...

And no response yet

Roez
07-14-2014, 08:11 AM
1. Upgrading the Gunslinger weapons doesn't upgrade the percentage chance of initiating a "EGO power-like" effect. Tested on a few weapons and this is true - unless this was fixed in the past few weeks? (Doubtful)


Trick said in one of the live streams the EGO like effect trigger percentage not upgrading was intentional (or was too much work to implement, if you want to read between the lines with how many problems they had getting upgrade rarity to even work).

PromMasamune
07-14-2014, 08:14 AM
Hi Nox!

Thanks for replying to this ol' thread o'mine.

Couple things:

1. Upgrading the Gunslinger weapons doesn't upgrade the percentage chance of initiating a "EGO power-like" effect. Tested on a few weapons and this is true - unless this was fixed in the past few weeks? (Doubtful)

2. The effect that the Gunslinger weapons create is NOT an EGO power - it's Overcharge-Like, not Overcharge, it's Blur-Like and not Blur - hence any perk that would affect an EGO power won't affect a Gunslinger weapon effect.

Hope that helps sir!


I'm confirm

Left :Upgraded from epic to Legendary
Right : Original Legendary
and the effect gunslinger weapon is not "Active" ego power skill(press key number "1")



http://image.ohozaa.com/i/4f8/j2fnkR.JPG (http://image.ohozaa.com/view2/xIipNvUj6dHW5sLR)

Roez
07-14-2014, 08:29 AM
Left :Upgraded from epic to Legendary
Right : Original Legendary

*photos removed*


I upgraded one from green to OJ, and it still has the 30% percentage.

Edit: here's a pic (left) I made of it for other reasons. Ignore the mods, and the wolfhound. I had just upgraded the rarity when I took the screenshot.

http://i.imgur.com/fq3S0AC.png?1

King Stud
11-17-2014, 07:06 PM
Got a purple EEC that I'm thinking of upgrading to OJ, so I'm wondering: are the things the OP posted still true?

crasher
11-17-2014, 08:47 PM
Derp, I foolishly responded to a necro that didn't need responding to.
Sorry for the waste of time/space.

Atticus Batman
11-17-2014, 09:08 PM
Got a purple EEC that I'm thinking of upgrading to OJ, so I'm wondering: are the things the OP posted still true?

Post #2 is still accurate.


Hi Nox!

Thanks for replying to this ol' thread o'mine.

Couple things:

1. Upgrading the Gunslinger weapons doesn't upgrade the percentage chance of initiating a "EGO power-like" effect. Tested on a few weapons and this is true - unless this was fixed in the past few weeks? (Doubtful)

2. The effect that the Gunslinger weapons create is NOT an EGO power - it's Overcharge-Like, not Overcharge, it's Blur-Like and not Blur - hence any perk that would affect an EGO power won't affect a Gunslinger weapon effect.

Hope that helps sir!


Upgrading gunslinger guns is a stupid waste of Arkforge, since it does not give you the legendary percentage chance of initiating a "EGO power-like" effect.

Nefarious
11-17-2014, 10:14 PM
I do think without a doubt that Ego Recharges on reload along with Speed Boost on reload will get cool down times which is the number 1 case that makes Zaggers over powered. And who knows maybe in time weapon rolls in general will be looked into.

Whoa, looked what happened since then. And I was labeled as a troll from here to Timbuktu for mentioning such things over a course of time...

http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/tysondart2.gif?w=1000

Atticus Batman
11-17-2014, 10:20 PM
Whoa, looked what happened since then. And I was labeled as a troll from here to Timbuktu for mentioning such things over a course of time...

http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/tysondart2.gif?w=1000

Poor Nerfy Troll! We likes ya anyway!

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/2776392_700b.jpg