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View Full Version : Roll Needs a Coooldown



Bluntski
04-03-2013, 07:09 AM
Rolls need a cooldown in PvP.

Toughts?

mimneotic
04-03-2013, 07:14 AM
Nope. It's basically the only counter vs DoTs (infectors, fire, acid, etc..)

Migrayne
04-03-2013, 07:14 AM
Absolutely not. You can't shoot or reload while rolling. .taking good use of roll is one of your best defences. Now jumping in PvP that is another story.

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 07:16 AM
Nope. It's basically the only counter vs DoTs (infectors, fire, acid, etc..)

They are all useless when you can spam roll. It takes less than 1.5s to roll twice. All I want is a 1s or 2s cd on roll.

Aeekto
04-03-2013, 07:31 AM
They are all useless when you can spam roll. It takes less than 1.5s to roll twice. All I want is a 1s or 2s cd on roll.

Roll is fine like it is..... they canīt do anything to you and you are able to still damage them (usually free kills).

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 09:17 AM
Roll is fine like it is..... they canīt do anything to you and you are able to still damage them (usually free kills).

Keep thinking that. It needs a CD or a shard resource like stamina that goes for jumping AND rolling.

EDIT
04-03-2013, 09:22 AM
Absolutely not. You can't shoot or reload while rolling. .taking good use of roll is one of your best defences. Now jumping in PvP that is another story.

This ^^^

Ooooh the jumping... the got dang bunny hoping mother...

And please, please tone down the aim-assist!

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 09:37 AM
Roll is only "one of your best defenses" because it can be spammed.

greatdividers
04-03-2013, 09:53 AM
Roll is only "one of your best defenses" because it can be spammed.

learn to aim and it isn't an issue. it actually makes it easier to kill people because they aren't fighting back.

PEBCAK

Aeekto
04-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Roll is only "one of your best defenses" because it can be spammed.

Seriously, just let them spam it.... theyīre all together "free kills". Rolling is absolutly not effective in any fight. Everyone just uses it to remove debuffs or roll only once to get into a cover and they have a downside by doing that: "they canīt shoot or reload".
Everytime someone rolls around i feel like this:
http://images.rakuten.de/6c78e1c4a1cff0532a2ef929820314ec/images/cd511ce8b755318724363075bc4e0779.jpg
and itīs so much fun shooting them while they canīt do anything against it :D

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 10:08 AM
Seems you haven't been in many fights if you honestly think that.

discosoc
04-03-2013, 10:13 AM
This ^^^

Ooooh the jumping... the got dang bunny hoping mother...

And please, please tone down the aim-assist!

Maybe it's a console problem. On the PC, aim assist doesn't seem to work in PvP.

greatdividers
04-03-2013, 10:13 AM
Seems you haven't been in many fights if you honestly think that.

seems you could use more practice if you can't kill people rolling.

let me guess, you came to this game from a mmorpg background and not FPS? because anyone with a FPS background won't have trouble with jumpers/rollers :)

Foxhop
04-03-2013, 10:23 AM
I have to agree that with the OP on this one, it's not so much the aiming that is the issue as much as the 'Wtf we were just fighting now suddenly he's spam rolling all over the place...' and though you might think it an easy kill, try taking someone down from a fair distance with a sniper when they are proving mortal kombats theory that back-flips and rolling are totally viable methods of transportation over distances long and short. x3

greatdividers
04-03-2013, 10:26 AM
though you might think it an easy kill, try taking someone down from a fair distance with a sniper

it really isn't that hard, it just takes skill *gasp*

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 10:33 AM
seems you could use more practice if you can't kill people rolling.

let me guess, you came to this game from a mmorpg background and not FPS? because anyone with a FPS background won't have trouble with jumpers/rollers :)

I have played more FPS than MMOs. You also seem to forget that I never said I have trouble killing people that roll constantly. Rolling makes DoT and debuff almost useless in PvP because you can just spam roll and clear it all. You are just bringing your e-peen into this now.

Why run around our crouch when you can just roll everywhere?

Aeekto
04-03-2013, 10:59 AM
I have played more FPS than MMOs. You also seem to forget that I never said I have trouble killing people that roll constantly. Rolling makes DoT and debuff almost useless in PvP because you can just spam roll and clear it all. You are just bringing your e-peen into this now.

Why run around our crouch when you can just roll everywhere?

It doesnt make DoTs useless at all.... you take him out of fight because he decided to roll instead of fighting so he take less damage from the DoT, but he canīt damage anyone else during his rolling while you still can damage him.
Is it realy so hard to understand?

And if you want to roll everywhere.... well, good luck with that.... i prefer running so iīm able to fight.

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 11:02 AM
Take him out of the fight? 1 roll barely takes 1 second and if they have blur its even more useless.

You can't shoot while running either.

Aeekto
04-03-2013, 11:11 AM
Take him out of the fight? 1 roll barely takes 1 second and if they have blur its even more useless.

You can't shoot while running either.

Do you even play "Defiance"?
because it seems like you play an absolutly different game if you can remove DoTs in PvP with only one roll (it takes 3-4 btw because each roll only shortens the time of the DoT) and you canīt shoot while running!?

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 11:12 AM
2 rolls and the dot is gone, I have never had it last more than 2 rolls.\

Aeekto
04-03-2013, 11:14 AM
2 rolls and the dot is gone, I have never had it last more than 2 rolls.\

Thatīs only for electric.... and this isnīt a real dangerous DoT because itīs only 7 damage.
same if you wait some seconds before rolling, then itīs possible too, that it only takes 2 rolls.

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 11:21 AM
Fire, and from what I could tell, bio as well. I could very well be wrong but this is my experience.

SparklingNugs
04-03-2013, 11:45 AM
Rolls need a cooldown in PvP.

Toughts?

Silly idea, imo.

Bluntski
04-03-2013, 02:39 PM
Bump for less egos (HA!) and more opinions.

crypticbutton
04-03-2013, 11:30 PM
I like it the way it is. Jumping and rolling are fine, just practice a method to combat this tactic. This game is all about skill and one of the things to adapt to is an enemy jumping or rolling. If it is so common place then it shouldnt be too hard to predict what the player you are facing is going to do and you should be able to take measures to be able to hit them.

Disarmonia
04-03-2013, 11:48 PM
Rolling is fine.

Adding a cool down would create more problems then it solves, without the ability to roll all that would happen is constant sniping or rocket spam and people would no longer be able to avoid it. Personally I'd rather see people rolling about then having everyone spamming tar effect weapons to make it a slow motion fighting.

Tacopolice
04-04-2013, 12:28 AM
Roll ftw... Would be a bad idea to take it out or to have a cd on it

WarHoundZero
04-04-2013, 01:23 AM
Do a barrel roll fox

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 06:54 AM
My point is that roll makes DoTs useless. I played a ton of shadow war's last night and it takes 2 rolls to clear EVERY dot/affliction excluding snare. Elemental procs are almost useless with roll being spammable, not once was I threatened by dot's or afflictions. By giving roll a resource pool it would force people to use rolls more conservatively so if they waste 3 rolls on getting to cover then they would be vulnerable to a dot and vice versa.

SpiralFox
04-04-2013, 07:34 AM
Spamming roll does nothing for players offensively(I've killed people in mid-roll lol), defensively on the other hand, it stops fire DoT effects(I haven't been hit with poison DoT in PvP yet, surprisingly) and it's a good way to dodge rocket and grenade splash damage. Think about it, let's say roll had a one second cooldown and your going toe-to-toe with a player who has one of those rockets that explode on impact and release several small grenades, sure you can dodge the initial rocket, oh but what about those small grenades? BOOM!! Another kill for the red/blue team. Roll is perfectly fine.

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 07:46 AM
Spamming roll does nothing for players offensively(I've killed people in mid-roll lol), defensively on the other hand, it stops fire DoT effects(I haven't been hit with poison DoT in PvP yet, surprisingly) and it's a good way to dodge rocket and grenade splash damage. Think about it, let's say roll had a one second cooldown and your going toe-to-toe with a player who has one of those rockets that explode on impact and release several small grenades, sure you can dodge the initial rocket, oh but what about those small grenades? BOOM!! Another kill for the red/blue team. Roll is perfectly fine.

Except you that it makes elemental procs useless aside from snare. That is my point.

Kazamario
04-04-2013, 08:08 AM
Fire dot should extinguish when you roll.

mimneotic
04-04-2013, 08:18 AM
Fire dot should extinguish when you roll.

1 roll for Acid, 2 rolls for Fire, 3 for Infectors, ? for Snares, ? for EMP. Not sure whether you can "roll out" of an EMP effect, though. I know you can roll out of a Snare, however. I think it's 3 for Snares, if I had to guess.

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 08:25 AM
1 roll for Acid, 2 rolls for Fire, 3 for Infectors, ? for Snares, ? for EMP. Not sure whether you can "roll out" of an EMP effect, though. I know you can roll out of a Snare, however. I think it's 3 for Snares, if I had to guess.

I tested this with every effect last night. It's 2 rolls for everything but flash and snare it seems. 1.5s of rolling clears dots making them pretty much useless unless the person doesn't know to roll twice. This just emphasizes the use of weapons that need the least amount of shots (ie sniper and shotty). There is almost no reason to use elemental dot effects or a pyro grenade when you can just roll twice and clear the effect. Granted, my testing was far from extensive so please correct me if this isn't the case.

I would like to see either a cooldown, resource pool or increased amount of rolls to clear dots.


Edit:

It would be nice if a dev could comment on how roll should be functioning in regards to clearing status effects.

mimneotic
04-04-2013, 08:45 AM
I'm not entirely sure about whether or not I was completely correct in my own response. But, I will however do you the favor of pointing out that elemental effects (including the Infector DoT) are FAR from useless. Sure, you can argue and say "but you can just roll out of them", but those are seconds that you can't do anything besides rolling. Against an infector, you're just going to get a new DoT applied to you. Against anything else in the hands of someone even remotely accurate, well. Enjoy eating the rest of their clip while you roll around on the ground.

I giggle every time someone starts rolling around mid-fight because of my infector DoT. "Haha, cleansed that one!", and I go "Well go ahead and cleanse the three new layers I just planted on your face, huehue".

*edit

Rolls still do not need a cooldown. They are far from an issue in PvP. You trade your entire ability to fight back for a less predictable way of moving around (and a way to cleanse DoTs off of yourself). It's totally fair.

Slay
04-04-2013, 08:47 AM
Is your argument against rolls or is your argument shifting to DoTs? I bet they could disable rolling removing DoTs, but you need to start another thread for that. You keep defending your case against us, and ask for our opinions then change your initial post, which was only meant for putting a cooldown on the roll. Next time think out your thread and give more information to prevent the flame and construct quality opinions, with an initial post this vague and your answers being ambiguous not answering anything without further replies and qualitative data projection over your posts, I'm inclined to believe you're more mad over your DoT not working and you're probably the type who is stupid enough to go tryhard mlg pro on an mmo with bugs on the first couple of days in the release, expecting a polished game without testing high load servers until now. Also I would like to say using a Bio Blast in PvP is not a problem, infact I think anyone who uses them shouldn't be allowed to roll, but those who do use them at the moment are pretty stupid. Get a higher understanding of PvP first so you can back up the claims people keep throwing out, as well explain your topic more in the initial post and don't switch your ideals half way through the thread.

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 08:55 AM
What?

My argument is about spamming rolls to remove DoTs hence putting it on a cooldown, but thanks for being condescending and calling me names. My opinion is pretty clear if you read all of my replies. I have backed up my claims as well.

I stopped using DoTs as soon as I saw how fast you can roll twice and clear it so I guess I am "mad". The argument that "well they can't do anything while rolling" is kind of moot because 2 rolls takes under 2 seconds to preform and if you use blur there is no way they will re-apply them, not to mention TTK is already low anyways. I have died from DoTs once my entire time PvPing.

Slay
04-04-2013, 09:06 AM
What?

My argument is about spamming rolls to remove DoTs hence putting it on a cooldown.


Rolls need a cooldown in PvP.

Toughts?

There, I referred you to your own post.

Oh, and if you want, I hear gamestop accepts returns up to 7 days, so you will be able to return it to buy another game.

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 09:09 AM
There, I referred you to your own post.

Oh, and if you want, I hear gamestop accepts returns up to 7 days, so you will be able to return it to buy another game where rolling is fair, like Gears of War, which has a better matchmaking system anyways.

Yes...because that is my only post in this thread. :rolleyes:

What do returns have to do with this? When did I say I didn't like this game? I am trying to talk about PvP mechanics so if you have nothing to contribute don't post. Mim is actually taking the time to explain his stance unlike you who seems to be here just to be condescending.

Slay
04-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Yes...because that is my only post in this thread.

And back to my post which you responded to but probably didn't read:


... as well explain your topic more in the initial post and don't switch your ideals half way through the thread.

And again you know... the fact you didn't ask us at all for thoughts or opinions inclines me to believe I'm not welcomed here.


Rolls need a cooldown in PvP.

Toughts?

Bump for less egos (HA!) and more opinions.

__________________




What do returns have to do with this? When did I say I didn't like this game? I am trying to talk about PvP mechanics so if you have nothing to contribute don't post. Mim is actually taking the time to explain his stance unlike you who seems to be here just to be condescending.

I am not being condescending, you're taking it that way. I'm offering you

more opinions.
and

Toughts?

I did also offer you my 2 cents by saying

....Also I would like to say using a Bio Blast in PvP is not a problem, infact I think anyone who uses them shouldn't be allowed to roll, but those who do use them at the moment....

In a previous post.


Does your brain hurt?

Edit: Not really going to reply after this, going to get on Defiance since you want me gone anyways. Since my thoughts and opinions aren't welcome :P

Trip
04-04-2013, 09:22 AM
The rolling animation is actually quite long to go through making you extremely vulnerable and especially at the END of the animation where the character model gets back up on his/her feet again. Furthermore you can not shoot while doing this animation, nor can you reload. I, having played Unreal Tournament quite a bit, would find buffing the roll agreeable. I digress. Any sort of nerfing for this movement option is completely unnecessary for its usefulness is already hampered by the aforementioned items.

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 09:23 AM
deleted 10 char

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 09:25 AM
stuff

:rolleyes:

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 09:27 AM
The rolling animation is actually quite long to go through making you extremely vulnerable and especially at the END of the animation where the character model gets back up on his/her feet again. Furthermore you can not shoot while doing this animation, nor can you reload. I, having played Unreal Tournament quite a bit, would find buffing the roll agreeable. I digress. Any sort of nerfing for this movement option is completely unnecessary for its usefulness is already hampered by the aforementioned items.

I disagree with you that the roll is long. It takes less than 2 seconds to roll twice.

Luck
04-04-2013, 09:29 AM
Wow poor Bluntski..
I have read the whole thread and I honestly believe you got ambushed here.
Your opinions and ideas were solid and written in a polite manner, yet you got spammed by kids like Slay.
I actually think those people who defend the roll move so bluntly are in fact the ones that abuse it.


To the Point -
I fully support a resource pool or just completely removing the "dot removal" mechanic from dodge.
It's a cheesy mechanic with a lot of room to abuse.

Don't be disheartened Bluntski :)

Frogger
04-04-2013, 10:31 AM
I actually had no idea it stops DOTs, that should honestly be removed, but other than removing DOTs no cd should be needed imo.

Slay
04-04-2013, 10:53 AM
yet you got spammed by kids like Slay.

Poor me, libel by someone random for actually giving my 2 cents, and trying to tell him that he should have conveyed his facts in a better way, but since you've decided to agree with him you're going to jump on his boat of ignorantly making conjectures about my character/age, and decide to evade reading my posts like an intellectual...

surac77
04-04-2013, 10:57 AM
rolling and even more so jumping makes this pvp the goofiest ive played - worse than halo - either add some sort of stamina bar or people wont stop

MetalPizza
04-04-2013, 01:07 PM
Agree with the stamina bar for jumping and rolling, this is so annoying in pvp seeing guys with combat shotgun jumping and shooting everywhere without aiming and still doing the best score in the game.

Bluntski
04-05-2013, 06:30 AM
Bump! For your health!

Aidan415
04-05-2013, 08:11 AM
Rolling was made more viable when they decided to nerf the jumping so to then go and nerf the rolling aswell we may aswell be having turn based combat if all mobility is taken out of the game.