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View Full Version : Question about wasted guns due to scoring system



Wander
06-11-2014, 08:12 AM
So, my wolfhound.

I fought long and hard for this gun, an assassin triple crit, with a legendary OJ crit mod...its over 7.0 crit multi and well yea I was super excited for it.


Here is the problem. I dont touch it anymore, its my highest DPS gun, and I dont touch it. I get the WM killed everyime with the people I roll with, so im not actually too worried about having a high DPS. Same with the Monolith or any boss really. So WHY am I going to use a gun that nets me way less points, regardless of its DPS.

I want keys, arkforge and salvage and a high score, wtf reason is there for me to use my wolfhound now???

Is there any plans to introduce some kind of DMG score mix? This new scoring system not only sucks and is NooB friendly as can be, but it wastes guns apparantly now, and still doesnt show how well people actually DO. It also doesnt let me know what gun gives me the highest DPS, it also doesnt show people how to play better, it also makes no sense as skill no longer plays a factor into anything. Like, am I crazy? is it just me? Should i go jump in a lake?

Camelot
06-11-2014, 10:30 AM
This has been bugging me for a long time now since they change the scoring system. I go to a WarMaster and people are bragging about their score. But all they do is just scratching the surface. Before the patch I always managed to score very high damage. Now I'm no.21 and I'm using the same weapon and perks that I used before. Right now people who score high get mad if you score low. What they don't know is they just score high but not killing the WarMaster. In short more keycodes and arkforge.

konstantinov
06-11-2014, 10:33 AM
Wander I still use mine from time to time just to see the BIG numbers on either the WM or Monolith.

squidgod2000
06-11-2014, 10:38 AM
Supposedly Teamwork and Opportunity scoring is soft-capped at some point--or at least I think I remember reading about that.

Holy Bahamut3
06-11-2014, 10:47 AM
Supposedly Teamwork and Opportunity scoring is soft-capped at some point--or at least I think I remember reading about that.

It seems to be capped around 100k score.

Oort Cloud
06-11-2014, 11:13 AM
Is there any resource that goes into detail about how things are scored?

Most of the time, it seems to make sense, but sometimes... I am left completely confused.

In one event (some rescue mission of some sort), I was the one to interact/rescue 90% of the people, had zero downs, and made 95% of the kills and I was in last place. First place had 2 kills, four downs, and more than five times my score? Up until a couple more players joined when I was almost finished, I had been soloing it.

I have been trying to look into it, but info is hard to find. Maybe I am dense though. :)

Odessa
06-11-2014, 11:17 AM
Is there any resource that goes into detail about how things are scored?

Most of the time, it seems to make sense, but sometimes... I am left completely confused.

In one event (some rescue mission of some sort), I was the one to interact/rescue 90% of the people, had zero downs, and made 95% of the kills and I was in last place. First place had 2 kills, four downs, and more than five times my score? Up until a couple more players joined when I was almost finished, I had been soloing it.

I have been trying to look into it, but info is hard to find. Maybe I am dense though. :)

You get a lot of points for Team work, surprise, etc... Inspect some of the people around you to see what weapons they are using. SMGs or other high DPS weapons will kick up their leaderboard score. Also, nano effects will add to the constant scoring.

Can I just reiterate how important knowing your damage compared to others is, so you know how you are doing? I can? Consider it done. *grumbles*

Oort Cloud
06-11-2014, 11:28 AM
Hmm, I should probably learn how to inspect then!

Is there any write up somewhere of how score is graded?

Even with teamwork, surprise, and things like that... I am struggling to understand how someone who came in at the last minute and took out a guy on the perimeter scores first place with 50k points compared to my 11k. Its a mystery to me currently!

Odessa
06-11-2014, 11:47 AM
Hmm, I should probably learn how to inspect then!

Is there any write up somewhere of how score is graded?

Even with teamwork, surprise, and things like that... I am struggling to understand how someone who came in at the last minute and took out a guy on the perimeter scores first place with 50k points compared to my 11k. Its a mystery to me currently!

Here's a link (http://community.defiance.com/en/2014/02/28/new-scoring-system-co-op-arenas/) to a basic breakdown of scoring changes, which came out with the Gunslinger DLC.

Inspect (on the XBox ): You use right on the D-Pad and choose nearby, then the name and Inspect.

Here is a screencap of the various Quick Menu options from Defiance Data (http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=226) (I highly suggest bookmarking this site)

Ashlocke
06-11-2014, 12:07 PM
The Devs clearly don't want damage output to be the only source of scoring points, but as has been pointed out in numerous threads including this one, the current system sucks.

Here's a solution off the top of my head that makes BOTH damage output AND teamwork, nano, and all of the other assorted non damage points important. Not only important, but it makes it so that you wouldn't want to ignore your damage output in favor of the other things that get you a higher score, and vice-versa.

Put in place damage tiers that allow you to increase your non-damage points.

What does that mean you ask?

Well, I'm so glad you asked.

Simple:

Lets use the following tier values off the top of my head:

You start with a non-damage point cap of 10,000, you cannot earn more non-damage points until you do 10,000 points of damage. Once you do 10k damage then your non-damage point cap is raised to 20k and when you do 20k damage then your non-damage point cap gets raised to 30k, etc. You see how the progression works.

What this will do is make it so that people will WANT to do damage because doing damage allows them to ALSO earn more non-damage points because the higher damage you do the higher your non-damage point cap will be.

In this way neither method of scoring points negates the other, but rather both complement each other and in a way that you can't simply ignore one or the other. You need to work at both in order to reach the highest scores, which in turn means you are also doing good damage because without doing damage your point cap is lower.

This has the unintentional benefit of allowing the Devs to not need to show EXACTLY how much damage people did in the score window. That was something I read that they chose due to players griefing other players about their damage output. Everyone will see a high SCORE and all they will know is that the person did "more" damage than someone with a lower score, but they won't know how much. It might be a few more points, or a whole lot of points, there won't be a way to know an exact value.

For whatever it's worth I always thought that idea was silly, who cares if damage done is displayed, but whatever *shrug* this helps the Devs in that regard as a side benefit. They should at least show each individual user how much damage they did without the need to display it to everyone for the simple sake of helping folks to hone their builds.

I hope I explained that in a way that makes sense.

squidgod2000
06-11-2014, 12:20 PM
You start with a non point cap of 10,000, you cannot earn more non-damage points until you do 10,000 points of damage. Once you do 10k damage then your non-damage point cap is raised to 20k and when you do 20k damage then your non-damage point cap gets raised to 30k, etc. You see how the progression works.

I have no confidence in the ability of Trion to implement a system even as marginally complicated as that.

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
06-11-2014, 12:32 PM
i asked a long time ago if trion could add damage score. i suggested 1 point for every 10 damage. it seemed like a reasonable amount. the problem i have is when killing something solo, you get no points for any damage. only the kill shot, which hardly adds up to anything in some instances.

Zugo
06-11-2014, 12:37 PM
Maybe leave the score thing in place to grant keys, then grant forge based on Damage? That would be a really fun mechanic to balance out with loadouts.

Oort Cloud
06-11-2014, 01:07 PM
Here's a link (http://community.defiance.com/en/2014/02/28/new-scoring-system-co-op-arenas/) to a basic breakdown of scoring changes, which came out with the Gunslinger DLC.

Inspect (on the XBox ): You use right on the D-Pad and choose nearby, then the name and Inspect.

Here is a screencap of the various Quick Menu options from Defiance Data (http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=226) (I highly suggest bookmarking this site)

Thanks for that info (I play on PC, but the link answered the question). I already use that site since you suggested it in another thread!

It still doesnt make sense on the score, but the following post might explain what happened;


i asked a long time ago if trion could add damage score. i suggested 1 point for every 10 damage. it seemed like a reasonable amount. the problem i have is when killing something solo, you get no points for any damage. only the kill shot, which hardly adds up to anything in some instances.

If that is true, then that explains exactly what had happened! I was solo-ing the mission, but while I was interacting with the last objective, another player came in and killed a guy with some sort of fast firing weapon (think an SMG, but not sure).

It might not have counted my own damage until the other player came in. At that point, it was probably calculated that I had done no damage whatsoever, despite doing the majority of the work for the mission.

I think I was thinking of another incident with the number of downs though. Someone was basically healing me while I went to town, and they ended up getting a bad score. It makes more sense in that situation though, since they were downed a couple of times (they were relying on me to keep enemies off their back). It was a nice piece of teamwork though, and I felt they should have been rewarded roughly equally. Maybe a bit less than me, but I am guessing if they were concerned with loot from score.. they wont be trying out such a strategy again. Bit of a shame on that..

Losobal
06-11-2014, 07:05 PM
With the changes in weapon stats based on ego level, wouldn't this basically mean that if you made it about pure damage, then the lower ego rating players would never be able to score near the top, because their guns would always be worse than the 5000+ rating guys running around?

squidgod2000
06-11-2014, 07:40 PM
i asked a long time ago if trion could add damage score. i suggested 1 point for every 10 damage. it seemed like a reasonable amount. the problem i have is when killing something solo, you get no points for any damage. only the kill shot, which hardly adds up to anything in some instances.

You get points based on the amount of damage you've done to the mob. However, if you shoot a mob and then switch to another mob before the first mob dies, you (seemingly) don't get any points. You don't need to get the kill shot, but you need to be shooting at the mob when it dies. (maybe. I think.)

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
06-11-2014, 07:42 PM
With the changes in weapon stats based on ego level, wouldn't this basically mean that if you made it about pure damage, then the lower ego rating players would never be able to score near the top, because their guns would always be worse than the 5000+ rating guys running around?

you dont change it to pure damage. right now we have a score totalled by adding teamwork to opportunist to kill shots. when you play solo, you lose teamwork points which makes up the majority of your score at times. by giving us a percentage of damage turned into score, my suggestion being 10%, then it just becomes another factor in the equation. low ego players will not benifit when playing alone as much as a high ego player, but with the ego boost at arkfalls and events, they will be compensated and can still score high damage numbers.

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
06-11-2014, 07:45 PM
You get points based on the amount of damage you've done to the mob. However, if you shoot a mob and then switch to another mob before the first mob dies, you (seemingly) don't get any points. You don't need to get the kill shot, but you need to be shooting at the mob when it dies. (maybe. I think.)

try this for me. get a friend to join you, and go find a volge emergency. shoot the first volge trooper you see alone, without your friends help. watch your score closely. after you kill the first alone, have your friend help you kill the second. then compare the score you get between the first and second troopers.

Wander
06-12-2014, 08:33 AM
try this for me. get a friend to join you, and go find a volge emergency. shoot the first volge trooper you see alone, without your friends help. watch your score closely. after you kill the first alone, have your friend help you kill the second. then compare the score you get between the first and second troopers.

Oh without a doubt you get WAAAY more points for teamwork. Close to double maybe if you do it right. Also double your chance of nano effect kill if your both running a nano....

Well, glad to see im not crazy or alone in this, thanks guys.