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View Full Version : Still NO SASR love? Crikey.



Cavadus
06-17-2014, 10:54 AM
Whence I last was active I was getting frustrated with the ammo issues for semi-automatic sniper rifles. The damage was too low to be used as a true sniper rifle and there wasn't enough ammo for spamming lead as a battle rifle.

And now with EGO scaling and threat levels three mags worth of ammo doesn't cut it when I'm forced to dump two full mags into an average enemy during group activities.

Bolt actions still outshine SASRs in every sniping way.

So for the umpteenth millionth time, could we reduce the crit bonus on SASRs, rename them battle rifles, give them iron sights by default, increase RoF/decrease damage a bit, and have them use AR/SMG/LMG ammo, give them more ammo, or any combination thereof (but mostly more ammo)?

I love my Frontier Quick Repeater, I still think it's the best looking rifle in the game, but it's virtually unplayable as-is even with an ammo spike.

konstantinov
06-17-2014, 10:57 AM
I agree with you. You talk like you're off that show Downtown Abbey.

PseudoCool
06-17-2014, 11:49 AM
Well.. even though this is only a game, let's look at it with a real world variation shall we.

If you compare sniper rifles in the real world, you still have two types like you do in the game. However, unless your in an urban setting, the majority of professional snipers (ie military and swat) use a bolt action sniper rifle. The reasons are many, but do include accuracy, round size (ie damage and capability), and the ability of the weapons system itself.

For this reason, SASR and BASR should be left as is, since it's more close to a realistic version of any gun set up in the game. And, not sure where your playing, or who your shooting, but my semi's do very good damage, even at TL10. The big point is knowing the gun, how the bloom/aim deviation works, and putting that deviation into the critical spot of various enemies. Aiming center of mass for just about any enemy isn't going to do nearly as much damage as hitting the critical spot.

As it stands now, IMHO, SASR's work great in closer areas than BASR's because of the fire rate and the ability to fire "on the move". The only SASR I personally don't find fun to use is the VBI SS-2 Ranger, because for me, at almost any range, that second shot is wasted into open space, and I don't like flinging ammo around when I've got such a limited pool of it.

BlackTalons
06-17-2014, 11:51 AM
I would give them more damage so they are bodyshoting snipers. For battle rifle the closest thing is a Heavy assault carbine I think.

Cavadus
06-17-2014, 12:09 PM
If you compare sniper rifles in the real world, you still have two types like you do in the game. However, unless your in an urban setting, the majority of professional snipers (ie military and swat) use a bolt action sniper rifle. The reasons are many, but do include accuracy, round size (ie damage and capability), and the ability of the weapons system itself.

The most proliferate sniper rifle in use by U.S. forces are M21s which are M14s with match-grade barrels and optics. Virtually every single semi-automatic sniper rifle in the world is either a battle rifle or a slightly modified battle rifle. Very few are purpose-built for that specific task. In fact, the only one that comes to mind is H&K's PSG-1 and even then it's still largely based on the G3.

NATO countries use the 7.62x51mm cartridge for their SASRs, same as battle rifles, while the combloc equivalent is the 7.62x54R as used in the Dragunov SVD which is the most common combloc sniper rifle.

So... the two most common sniper rifles in the world are both semi-automatics, one is flat-out a barely modified battle rifle, while the other is just an up-chambered AK with a rotating bolt and decent barrel.

The Remington 700, aka M24, is not a common rifle in any branch. In fact, outside of USSOF it practically doesn't exist. It was down-chambered from .30-06 to fire 7.62x51mm as there wasn't .30-06 match ammo.

The M21's accuracy surpasses the M24's. The M24 shoots roughly 1.1 MOA at 300 meters while the M21 is at 0.75 or better.

The largest problem with bolt-actions is that with each cycling of the bolt the operator is constantly losing their original sight picture which makes follow-up shots take longer.

So... yeah, the battle rifle curb stomps the bolt action in RL whether used as sniping platform or DMR.

Hell, even the .50cal Barret is semi-auto.

That being said, the U.S. Army did attempt to phase out the M21 in favor of the M24 but as soon as we came into real conflicts again they quickly back-tracked and started issuing M21s while taking back the M24s. All other departments retained the M21.

Really says it all right there.

EDIT: In fact, it was right around late '04, early '05 when we started collecting up the M24s and re-issuing the M21s. I remember during a deployment around that time I was down at my troop's armory in supply and they were cracking open crates of Rock Island Armory M21s dated from 1974 and 1975 with their original Leupolds on them! The coolest bit of all, though, was that some of the crates were mis-labeled and we ended up with 16 brand-spanking-new Thompson SMGs. Unfortunately, the Thompsons were never issued but they were a very cool piece of history to stumble upon and worth an absolute fortune to boot.

Zhedda
06-17-2014, 12:16 PM
Or just increase the size of sniper ammo to like 120. Like Cavadus points out, most sniper rifles use conventional rounds. If you can hold 250 pistol rounds, and 500 assault rounds, 120 sniper rounds is nothing.

PseudoCool
06-17-2014, 12:25 PM
Ok.. I'm going to point this out for you, so that you can understand it better. And unless you have your hogstooth, your google search's are infact not only pointless, but INSULTING to those of us who do.

You just compared apples to apples. Making a basic comparrison of "battle rifle" to "semi-auto sniper rifle" is pretty much the same thing. In that instance, your looking at a revamped gun, as you mentioned, by using better optics, ammo, or barrels.

However... and this is where your off base here (especially with your /history lesson part that you edited out thankfully)..

The weapons you listed do NOT include the bolt action variants of sniper rifles. And yes.. SNIPERS are part of USSOF, as well as many other nations SOF. So to take a boot strap approach to sniper rifles as you did, was rather misleading to anyone who's never sighted down the barrel and scope of one and put rounds down range at a distance where the target never even hears the shot go off.

However.. and yes.. this is an important aspect you SHOULD recognize.. Snipers PREFER the bolt action rifle to ANY of the semi-auto versions. Accuracy is better, optics are better, control is better, repeat rounds at optional or secondary targets is better, and when you get into the fun of a Barrett 50cal, you get a whole new fun range of various rounds that you have no where else due to size limitations.

Now.. that being said.. let's look at where you ARE correct. Those two rifles you mentioned as being the "most common in the world".. yup.. I'll agree with you there. Because, frankly, their cheap, easy to build and anyone with a single eyeball and one finger can shoot them. Doesn't make them a sniper, and doesn't make the rifle a true sniper rifle anymore than buying a Remington 700 in .308 down at your local sporting goods store makes you an expert hunter either.

Now.. with that, I'll close and leave your thread alone with this one simple statement: For those who care, you send the very best. It's an old tag line from a TV commercial. If your going to "care" about what type of sniper you put in the field, as a developed nation anyways, not some backwoods guerrilla group or extremist splinter cell, then you put the BEST person with the BEST weapon in the field. This is why even USSOF use BOLT ACTION sniper rifles in various calibers when in the nest or on a stalk. Anything less is sub-standard and not worth the trouble to hump it in and out.

Zugo
06-17-2014, 12:26 PM
While I condone improvements to any sniper rifle in game, I think a simple total round increase would help out quite a bit.

Cavadus
06-17-2014, 12:38 PM
Snipers PREFER the bolt action rifle to ANY of the semi-auto versions. Accuracy is better, optics are better, control is better, repeat rounds at optional or secondary targets is better, and when you get into the fun of a Barrett 50cal, you get a whole new fun range of various rounds that you have no where else due to size limitations.

First of all, source (about snipers preferring bolt actions)? I was at Striker attached to VBC and BIAP when soldiers were gladly giving up M24s for those "cheap" M14s with an optic thrown on them. Can't think of anyone I served with at the time that wasn't happy as hell to get an M21 in their hands. I'm by no means SOF, just a 19D Cavalry Scout here. I wasn't a DMR at the time but I absolutely loathe the M16/4 and the 5.56 cartridge. I ended up trying so damn hard to get an M21 that as punishment my platoon sergeant stuck with me an M249 (which is an upgrade from an M16/4 so I wasn't too butt hurt).

Any optic a bolt can take can also be used on a semi-auto. Optics are calibrated to the cartridge; not the cycling mechanism.

Follow-up shots are certainly not easier. You can fire semi-auto until the mag runs dry without losing sight picture. Bolt-actions require adjustment after every single cycle.

Accuracy isn't necessarily better. The M21 outperforms the M24.

And two of Barretts are semi-autos (M82 and XM500) FYI. Only the M95 is bolt and I never saw one of those in service (again, I am not SOF).

Anyways, last word is all yours. Getting very off topic here :p

On topic: 120 rounds for SASRs would be perfect.

konstantinov
06-17-2014, 12:47 PM
The most proliferate sniper rifle in use by U.S. forces are M21s which are M14s with match-grade barrels and optics. Virtually every single semi-automatic sniper rifle in the world is either a battle rifle or a slightly modified battle rifle. Very few are purpose-built for that specific task. In fact, the only one that comes to mind is H&K's PSG-1 and even then it's still largely based on the G3.

NATO countries use the 7.62x51mm cartridge for their SASRs, same as battle rifles, while the combloc equivalent is the 7.62x54R as used in the Dragunov SVD which is the most common combloc sniper rifle.

So... the two most common sniper rifles in the world are both semi-automatics, one is flat-out a barely modified battle rifle, while the other is just an up-chambered AK with a rotating bolt and decent barrel.

The Remington 700, aka M24, is not a common rifle in any branch. In fact, outside of USSOF it practically doesn't exist. It was down-chambered from .30-06 to fire 7.62x51mm as there wasn't .30-06 match ammo.

The M21's accuracy surpasses the M24's. The M24 shoots roughly 1.1 MOA at 300 meters while the M21 is at 0.75 or better.

The largest problem with bolt-actions is that with each cycling of the bolt the operator is constantly losing their original sight picture which makes follow-up shots take longer.

So... yeah, the battle rifle curb stomps the bolt action in RL whether used as sniping platform or DMR.

Hell, even the .50cal Barret is semi-auto.

That being said, the U.S. Army did attempt to phase out the M21 in favor of the M24 but as soon as we came into real conflicts again they quickly back-tracked and started issuing M21s while taking back the M24s. All other departments retained the M21.

Really says it all right there.

EDIT: In fact, it was right around late '04, early '05 when we started collecting up the M24s and re-issuing the M21s. I remember during a deployment around that time I was down at my troop's armory in supply and they were cracking open crates of Rock Island Armory M21s dated from 1974 and 1975 with their original Leupolds on them! The coolest bit of all, though, was that some of the crates were mis-labeled and we ended up with 16 brand-spanking-new Thompson SMGs. Unfortunately, the Thompsons were never issued but they were a very cool piece of history to stumble upon and worth an absolute fortune to boot.

Here's the problem with all of this.


It's a video game and I don't think they went for realistic. If you want something more realistic this isn't the game for you.

rebtattoo
06-17-2014, 12:50 PM
Here's the problem with all of this.


It's a video game and I don't think they went for realistic. If you want something more realistic this isn't the game for you.^^^This^^^

And a sci-fi game at that. Any realism went out the window with hellbugs and terraforming.

Cavadus
06-17-2014, 12:53 PM
^^^This^^^

And a sci-fi game at that. Any realism went out the window with hellbugs and terraforming.

Yeah, that de-rail was very off topic from my OP and had no application whatsoever to my original topic.

KillerofLawyers
06-17-2014, 01:00 PM
It was funny though. Today I 'learned' that the action of a rifle determines what optics it can have! What a joke.

Anyways, on topic, the surge bolters are semi auto and they're pretty fantastic. I kind of like the semi autos better. If you can't kill something in one shot then I'll trade some damage for being able to keep my view down the scope until I have to replace the mag.

Eugenitor
06-17-2014, 01:00 PM
Wait... someone, presumably someone experienced, is seriously saying that semi-automatic sniper rifles are less useful than bolt actions in this game? How are you doing your math? In the time that it takes me to zoom out, do the bolt thing, and zoom back in for another 6000, 7000-damage headshot, I've already shot the enemy three or four times in the head with my SASR/repeater for 4000 damage each. The only problem I have with SASRs is ammo.

But if you want to make SASRs even more OP, Trion, don't let me stop you. I'm under EGO 1000, you don't have to listen to me.

PseudoCool
06-17-2014, 01:08 PM
On this point we can all agree: Sniper rifles IN THE GAME, need a larger ammo pool.

Beyond that, I don't think we should be linking them to AR/LMG/SMG ammo pool however. Having 3 gun types that munch through ammo in that pool already is a bit much.

Blu
06-17-2014, 01:09 PM
all weapons should be OP, strong is better, pve is defiance, not pvp,,,

but yes, now that im on snipers, cause I want that weapon skill lvl up and ego from them as well,

now that im using snipers and did some b4 on xbox, I always wanted more rounds, like a lot more, I enjoyed riding around and sniping everything back in the day, but it slowed my weapon skill progression by a lot, due to ammo..

like now, can take a LMG or AR, clustershot type weapons, so a few incursions and boom, your wep skill will be pretty high really fast,

not so much is true with snipers, might not be as slow at trying to lvl up sawed off shot gun skills, never tried to max out bmg's, but pretty sure they gain wep lvls pretty fast as well, fixing to find out cause of the goal involving there wep skill (level 10 needed)

but a lil more ammo would be nice, hell you reload one clip and its half your ammo gone right then, guess the dmg makes up for it, but when your trying to lvl up your weapon skill, its slow going vs the other weapon skills..

PseudoCool
06-17-2014, 01:12 PM
all weapons should be OP, strong is better, pve is defiance, not pvp,,,

but yes, now that im on snipers, cause I want that weapon skill lvl up and ego from them as well,

now that im using snipers and did some b4 on xbox, I always wanted more rounds, like a lot more, I enjoyed riding around and sniping everything back in the day, but it slowed my weapon skill progression by a lot, due to ammo..

like now, can take a LMG or AR, clustershot type weapons, so a few incursions and boom, your wep skill will be pretty high really fast,

not so much is true with snipers, might not be as slow at trying to lvl up sawed off shot gun skills, never tried to max out bmg's, but pretty sure they gain wep lvls pretty fast as well, fixing to find out cause of the goal involving there wep skill (level 10 needed)

but a lil more ammo would be nice, hell you reload one clip and its half your ammo gone right then, guess the dmg makes up for it, but when your trying to lvl up your weapon skill, its slow going vs the other weapon skills..

Agree again. And FYI, you can level up BMG skill FAST.. I'd say faster than any other weapon skill in the game, but I don't have the numbers to verify that (just an opinion based on how fast mine leveled up). Add in skill bonuses, threat level damage marks, and any of the variations of BMG's master quick, and the skill level sky rockets. I went from 14 to 19 in ONE Monolith Arkfall using a Telespanner with a +1 link bonus.

That being said, I STILL don't have my SASR or BASR's up to 20 yet, I'm a long way off, yet everything else is already there, many before DLC 3 landed.

samuelsinn
06-17-2014, 01:15 PM
i dont know . my psyclone and my ranger do some farly heavy damage. when aimed at someones chest area and let lose. but at the same time they both have a clip size of 20+ o.o so my ammo pool is mainly in the guns.

id love to have more sniper ammo. ALOT more. it would make for them odd moments when im scrambeling around the battle field looking for ammo going " WHERES THE BOX " alot nicer.

even just uping the ammo pool up to 100 would be nice.

its kind of annoying to see all thes guns in the game that have ammo pools over 200 and the sniper gets no love. come on now. even a pistol has an ammo pool of 200+

also on a side note. the only bolt action sniper in this game i use is the meteor bolter. o.o i like watching my 10k crit roll off the head of a volge as i down it in one shot solo. mmmmm love that gun.

Eugenitor
06-17-2014, 01:16 PM
might not be as slow at trying to lvl up sawed off shot gun skills

Pure torture. Sawed-offs in general are utterly, laughably worthless. I've never even seen anyone use one seriously. Only the slug ones are any good, and even those are far worse than pistols.

Z0mb1E
06-17-2014, 01:19 PM
The most proliferate sniper rifle in use by U.S. forces are M21s which are M14s with match-grade barrels and optics. Virtually every single semi-automatic sniper rifle in the world is either a battle rifle or a slightly modified battle rifle. Very few are purpose-built for that specific task. In fact, the only one that comes to mind is H&K's PSG-1 and even then it's still largely based on the G3.

NATO countries use the 7.62x51mm cartridge for their SASRs, same as battle rifles, while the combloc equivalent is the 7.62x54R as used in the Dragunov SVD which is the most common combloc sniper rifle.

So... the two most common sniper rifles in the world are both semi-automatics, one is flat-out a barely modified battle rifle, while the other is just an up-chambered AK with a rotating bolt and decent barrel.

The Remington 700, aka M24, is not a common rifle in any branch. In fact, outside of USSOF it practically doesn't exist. It was down-chambered from .30-06 to fire 7.62x51mm as there wasn't .30-06 match ammo.

The M21's accuracy surpasses the M24's. The M24 shoots roughly 1.1 MOA at 300 meters while the M21 is at 0.75 or better.

The largest problem with bolt-actions is that with each cycling of the bolt the operator is constantly losing their original sight picture which makes follow-up shots take longer.

So... yeah, the battle rifle curb stomps the bolt action in RL whether used as sniping platform or DMR.

Hell, even the .50cal Barret is semi-auto.

That being said, the U.S. Army did attempt to phase out the M21 in favor of the M24 but as soon as we came into real conflicts again they quickly back-tracked and started issuing M21s while taking back the M24s. All other departments retained the M21.

Really says it all right there.

EDIT: In fact, it was right around late '04, early '05 when we started collecting up the M24s and re-issuing the M21s. I remember during a deployment around that time I was down at my troop's armory in supply and they were cracking open crates of Rock Island Armory M21s dated from 1974 and 1975 with their original Leupolds on them! The coolest bit of all, though, was that some of the crates were mis-labeled and we ended up with 16 brand-spanking-new Thompson SMGs. Unfortunately, the Thompsons were never issued but they were a very cool piece of history to stumble upon and worth an absolute fortune to boot.

You found a crate of trench sweepers?!?!?!?! I'd have loved to have seen that!!!

Zhedda
06-17-2014, 01:24 PM
If you want to get your skill up fast use the FRC Particle snipers. Experience is based on damage done, and charged up it can do as much if not more than most bolt action sniper rifles. How I got my last 5 skill points. Took about an hour, running docks 101 arena. Around 1.25 skill ups per run.

Z0mb1E
06-17-2014, 01:27 PM
Pure torture. Sawed-offs in general are utterly, laughably worthless. I've never even seen anyone use one seriously. Only the slug ones are any good, and even those are far worse than pistols.

I actually didn't have much of a problem with sawed-offs, using the "prepared" perk, you can easily equip 2 sawed off's and simply fire/rotate fire/rotate, you'll only have one bullet chambered around 77% of the time but it still packs a punch and doesn't need the frequent reloading.

Eugenitor
06-17-2014, 01:30 PM
I actually didn't have much of a problem with sawed-offs, using the "prepared" perk, you can easily equip 2 sawed off's and simply fire/rotate fire/rotate, you'll only have one bullet chambered around 77% of the time but it still packs a punch and doesn't need the frequent reloading.

I have this perk, and I should have considered this. Thank you.

(Doesn't it say something when the only way to get real utility out of a weapon is not to actually have to reload it?)

ironcladtrash
06-17-2014, 01:36 PM
If anything the bolt actions need a buff. I use the ranger on the WM and on the old score I could always get above a million. I topped 2 million a few times too. When they upped the damage for semi autos they are better then bolt actions. Would have been fine if they upped the ammo pool instead of the damage. In PVP the only 2 snipers used anymore besides a surge bolter are the Ranger and FRC Quick Repeater. They kill anything with a headshot, used to be only the VBI or FRC bolt action sniper rifles were used.

Bonehead
06-17-2014, 02:39 PM
Here's the problem with all of this.


It's a video game and I don't think they went for realistic. If you want something more realistic this isn't the game for you.

One look through any of the blue reticle scopes will prove that true. Contrast, where did my contrast go? Who came up with blue?

Nobody who has ever looked through a scope.

Zealous
06-17-2014, 03:32 PM
Well.. even though this is only a game, let's look at it with a real world variation shall we.

Yeah let's talk about the real world when snipers can get a nano that spews radiation, fire, or covers their shoes in **** and slows them down :rolleyes:

Cavadus
06-17-2014, 03:38 PM
Yeah let's talk about the real world when snipers can get a nano that spews radiation, fire, or covers their shoes in **** and slows them down :rolleyes:

Hey, you'd be surprised! Radioactive and incendiary projectiles are very real and in common use by most first-world militaries :)

maverick07
06-17-2014, 03:50 PM
If you want to get your skill up fast use the FRC Particle snipers. Experience is based on damage done, and charged up it can do as much if not more than most bolt action sniper rifles. How I got my last 5 skill points. Took about an hour, running docks 101 arena. Around 1.25 skill ups per run.

Unless they changed them again... last time I used an FRC Particle Repeater it counted as a Semi Auto. It was also labeled one and it counted toward leveling my Semi Auto snipers up.

But seriously... it's about time snipers (Bolt Action and Semi Autos) get an ammo increase. If Sawed-offs can have 250 shots I don't see it being too game-breaking if both Sniper types have at least 100.

Zealous
06-17-2014, 04:11 PM
Hey, you'd be surprised! Radioactive and incendiary projectiles are very real and in common use by most first-world militaries :)

You are right but they don't work quite the way they do in Defiance. Regardless poopshoes, checkmate first world armies.

Ruinne
06-17-2014, 04:15 PM
Personally, I'd like to see SMGs chamber pistol rounds and semi-automatic sniper rifles chamber assault rifle rounds. That would be the most realistic.

Effects on game tuning not withstanding, obviously.

crazyged
06-18-2014, 02:07 AM
I suspect their logic with the sniper ammo pool was based on realism.

Snipers don't run around with huge pools of ammo - the stuff is heavy! Try carrying a case of 7.62 rifle ammo! Snipers need mobility.

Good snipers don't need a huge pool anyway. They normally have specific targets, go in, take them out and then they're on the move again.

But, I agree - the game is a fantasy and I would love a larger stock of ammo!

Atticus Batman
06-18-2014, 02:22 AM
I suspect their logic with the sniper ammo pool was based on realism.

Snipers don't run around with huge pools of ammo - the stuff is heavy! Try carrying a case of 7.62 rifle ammo! Snipers need mobility.

Good snipers don't need a huge pool anyway. They normally have specific targets, go in, take them out and then they're on the move again.

But, I agree - the game is a fantasy and I would love a larger stock of ammo!

Never met a shotgunner that carries tons of ammo either.

crazyged
06-18-2014, 02:27 AM
Never met a shotgunner that carries tons of ammo either.

True that - 250 rounds is a boatload!

Atticus Batman
06-18-2014, 02:33 AM
True that - 250 rounds is a boatload!

That said, I think the ammo pool should be increased to atleast 75%. Btw why do crappy pistols have a better Crit multiplier than Snipers? I know everyone loves their high crit wolfhounds, but why do snipers only get a 3.2 or so crit? Heck I have a bullrush that has a 5.0 crit. So why can it crit more than a Bolt action repeater? That doesn't really seem right, to me.

crazyged
06-18-2014, 02:39 AM
Btw why do crappy pistols have a better Crit multiplier than Snipers?

Yeah, that has left me somewhat bemused myself... I've fired pretty much everything in the real world and have never come across a pistol that can do the damage a high velocity round can do, barring the use of full wadcutter rounds, of course.

Atticus Batman
06-18-2014, 02:48 AM
Yeah, that has left me somewhat bemused myself... I've fired pretty much everything in the real world and have never come across a pistol that can do the damage a high velocity round can do, barring the use of full wadcutter rounds, of course.

I know. I still can't believe my NO-quartermaster bullrush has a crit of 5.0 and it is either a green ore blue crit barrel. I wanna say green but not sure, will have to try to remember to check and write down the stats so i can tinker with it in the weapon builder on www.defiancedata.com . :)

crazyged
06-18-2014, 02:52 AM
I've had rubbish luck with pistols - still haven't come across anything decent! :-P

Atticus Batman
06-18-2014, 02:59 AM
I've had rubbish luck with pistols - still haven't come across anything decent! :-P

If you are on Xbox, I have an extra oj bullrush and extra oj tacc pistol. Not sure how great you'd consider em though. I just know I personally prefer the ones I am using over my spares.

crazyged
06-18-2014, 03:05 AM
If you are on Xbox, I have an extra oj bullrush and extra oj tacc pistol. Not sure how great you'd consider em though. I just know I personally prefer the ones I am using over my spares.

Durn, I'm on PC, unfortunately.

Thanks for the offer, though!

Atticus Batman
06-18-2014, 03:19 AM
Durn, I'm on PC, unfortunately.

Thanks for the offer, though!

I figured that. On Xbox you get ridiculed for using a psitol unless it is a wolfhound or wildcat. IT is believed that they are the greatest pistols in game and therefore the ONLY ones anybody should ever use or keep. I have a wildcat, but prefer Wolverines and Bullrushes. Besides my bullrush has a higher crit than my current wildcat. And I am NOT a cookie cutter player like all those elitists want everyone who does Wms and PvP to be. I will use what I want when I want. No I don't use coldfire weapons or Bmgs in warmasters, but everyone who has the game does have a right to use what they want where they want, even if others don't like it or feel screwed by it. IT is their right. I do however have a problem with exploiters and glitchers doing that in random groups. If you exploit or glitch group with friends who are ok with it so legitimate players don't have to deal with it, but that is a different topic for a different thread. lol

The main points are:
1: I WILL use my bullrush in Wm if I feel like it, so :p
2: Our snipers need atleast 1.5 x more ammo
3: Snipers need a crit multiplier buff badly!

crazyged
06-18-2014, 03:23 AM
The main points are:
1: I WILL use my bullrush in Wm if I feel like it, so :p
2: Our snipers need atleast 1.5 x more ammo
3: Snipers need a crit multiplier buff badly!

Totally agree - It took me forever to level my snipers to 20 and a fraction of the time to do pistols. Some weird game logic there...

Just had a thought though... maybe it's because you generally have to get up close and personal with a pistol - sort of a reward for the the risk thing...

Atticus Batman
06-18-2014, 03:33 AM
Totally agree - It took me forever to level my snipers to 20 and a fraction of the time to do pistols. Some weird game logic there...

Just had a thought though... maybe it's because you generally have to get up close and personal with a pistol - sort of a reward for the the risk thing...

That would be why some pistols do a ton of damage, not including the crit multiplier. Look at a magnum. It may be slow as hell but hits like 2 tons of bricks. The bullrush, hits like a ton of bricks and does knockback damage, and it is balanced by VERY crappy bloom. Most of the pistols have plenty of risk versus reward. The snipers nowadays (charge guns excluded) just shoot nerf darts compared to most other weapons.

crazyged
06-18-2014, 03:39 AM
The snipers nowadays (charge guns excluded) just shoot nerf darts compared to most other weapons.

Yeah, in the real world, it doesn't matter WHERE you get hit by a sniper rifle - you are going down! Hydrostatic shock is an ugly thing...

Zhedda
06-18-2014, 06:28 AM
Unless they changed them again... last time I used an FRC Particle Repeater it counted as a Semi Auto. It was also labeled one and it counted toward leveling my Semi Auto snipers up.

But seriously... it's about time snipers (Bolt Action and Semi Autos) get an ammo increase. If Sawed-offs can have 250 shots I don't see it being too game-breaking if both Sniper types have at least 100.

Well, that was my point though. If you want to level semi-auto up fast use the particle rifle. If you want to level bolt up fast, use a Volge Lightning Rifle. Same concept, except a lightning rifle is explosive so it can kill multiple enemies at once. Also a good weapon for getting the 5,000 bolt action sniper kill pursuits, due to its explosive round.

Kibblehouse
06-18-2014, 08:37 AM
Hey, you'd be surprised! Radioactive and incendiary projectiles are very real and in common use by most first-world militaries :)

OK, Can someone throw out a name for a Real-World Radioactive round? I know about Incendiaries, but Radioactive?? The only thing I know that might be concidered radioactive is a depleted uranium round, and thats very low rad, used primarily for the density. If there's a real "rad" round I'd like to read up about it.

Kershoc
06-18-2014, 11:29 AM
Just because I didn't see it mentioned yet. Assassin's Cache Perk. It doesn't solve the problem of not enough rounds, but it does help a lot.

konstantinov
06-18-2014, 11:36 AM
I figured that. On Xbox you get ridiculed for using a psitol unless it is a wolfhound or wildcat. IT is believed that they are the greatest pistols in game and therefore the ONLY ones anybody should ever use or keep. I have a wildcat, but prefer Wolverines and Bullrushes. Besides my bullrush has a higher crit than my current wildcat. And I am NOT a cookie cutter player like all those elitists want everyone who does Wms and PvP to be. I will use what I want when I want. No I don't use coldfire weapons or Bmgs in warmasters, but everyone who has the game does have a right to use what they want where they want, even if others don't like it or feel screwed by it. IT is their right. I do however have a problem with exploiters and glitchers doing that in random groups. If you exploit or glitch group with friends who are ok with it so legitimate players don't have to deal with it, but that is a different topic for a different thread. lol

The main points are:
1: I WILL use my bullrush in Wm if I feel like it, so :p
2: Our snipers need atleast 1.5 x more ammo
3: Snipers need a crit multiplier buff badly!

I've seen a bullrush with a 6.6 crit before T5 mods were available. Pretty sure it had a blue crit barrel as well.

Zugo
06-18-2014, 11:47 AM
Bolt action snipers need something.

They start off with higher base crit than Semi's but the base damage is way too similar. I decent rolled semi will out DPS a bolt action in almost every scenario currently in game.

3rdpig
06-18-2014, 11:56 AM
I'd like to see the SASR's turned into something like a designated marksman rifle or battle rifle, but to be honest those roles are already filled with the Heavy Assault Carbine. Duplicate that gun in the SASR class, but remove the built in scope, raise the accuracy, damage, crit, and reload time by 25%, lower the RoF by the same amount and double the spare ammo capacity and we'd have the perfect SASR. IMO of course.

ironcladtrash
06-18-2014, 12:02 PM
Bolt action snipers need something.

They start off with higher base crit than Semi's but the base damage is way too similar. I decent rolled semi will out DPS a bolt action in almost every scenario currently in game.

This exactly. I have a really good double crit FRC Bolt action from Top Notch with Prepared synergy. I love the Prepared synergy on it because I will almost never run out of ammo. However even in PVE I will never use it over my Rangers or Quick Repeaters.

Cavadus
06-18-2014, 03:37 PM
Snipers don't run around with huge pools of ammo - the stuff is heavy! Try carrying a case of 7.62 rifle ammo!

Not true at all. Standard loadout for mags for a deisgnated marksmen carrying an M21 is six mags plus one in the rifle. That's 140 rounds altogether and I often saw DMs carry up to eight mags. Jarheads even got to carry 30 round M14 mags. Those things are redonkulously huge.

The 7.62x51mm weighs roughly twice as much as 5.56x45. Standard battle loadout for the U.S. Army is six mags. USGI 5.56 mags carry 30 cartridges plus the mag in the rifle. That's 210 rounds which clocks in, including the weight of the mags, at about the same weight as 140 rounds plus the weight of the mags for 7.62x51.

It's like any other battle rifle be it an FAL, G3, M14, et cetera.

I personally own a DS Arms' SA58 para with an 18" barrel. It's heavy, a pig by M16/4 standards. It originally started at like 12 lbs UNLOADED but I switched out the big heavy DS Arms front rail handguard system for VLTOR's and I replaced the para folding stock with the ACR stock after someone over at FALfiles.com started manufacturing an adapter for it. I've gotten it shaved down to 9.8 lbs fully unloaded at the moment which is nothing TBH. Try carrying an M249 with 200 rounds and all of the little machine gun belt connectors on the SAW and then two more buckets of 200 rounds each on your kit.

Plus another guy at FALfiles.com is making poly FAL mags which are dope as FAL mags are normally steel and thus quite heavy (mosesmag.com (http://www.mosesmag.com/) if anyone is interested, I can't rep the guy or his product enough!).

THAT is heavy. 120 rounds of 7.62x51mm? Not so much.

crazyged
06-19-2014, 12:54 AM
Not true at all. Standard loadout for mags for a deisgnated marksmen carrying an M21 is six mags plus one in the rifle. That's 140 rounds altogether and I often saw DMs carry up to eight mags. Jarheads even got to carry 30 round M14 mags. Those things are redonkulously huge.

Six mags is a far cry from an ammo crate.

I also carried around that much at times, when I was in the military.

My standard weapon was a Belgian FN (Known as an R1 in SA). It had a 20 round, 7.62 mag.

Modded with a scope, it doubled up nicely as a sniper.

Most of the time though, I didn't need to carry that much...

Atticus Batman
06-19-2014, 02:29 AM
OK, Can someone throw out a name for a Real-World Radioactive round? I know about Incendiaries, but Radioactive?? The only thing I know that might be concidered radioactive is a depleted uranium round, and thats very low rad, used primarily for the density. If there's a real "rad" round I'd like to read up about it.

I believe you are thinking strictly about things like Uranium. There are other types of radiation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/radiation

So they may be talking about a particle beam/electro-magnetic gun.

http://iceagenow.info/2012/04/russia-testing-electromagnetic-radiation-guns/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HERF_guns

Atticus Batman
06-19-2014, 03:39 AM
I know. I still can't believe my NO-quartermaster bullrush has a crit of 5.0 and it is either a green ore blue crit barrel. I wanna say green but not sure, will have to try to remember to check and write down the stats so i can tinker with it in the weapon builder on www.defiancedata.com . :)

It is grenadier, has reccoil and accuracy rolls. The only Crit roll is the 1.10 mastery crit bonus and the crit mod is gree. It has a crit of 5.0 my bullrush I don't use and has no crit bonuses has a crit of 4.0, so why is that better than a sniper's base crit?!

Kibblehouse
06-19-2014, 06:32 AM
I believe you are thinking strictly about things like Uranium. There are other types of radiation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/radiation

So they may be talking about a particle beam/electro-magnetic gun.

http://iceagenow.info/2012/04/russia-testing-electromagnetic-radiation-guns/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HERF_guns

Nope, Sorry I am familiar with radiation in its many forms, spent my time wearing a dosimeter badge. I know about the experimental truck sized weapon systems being played with. However the comment was made about Radioactive and incendiary rounds for sniper rifles. THAT is what I wanted more info on. As I said the only thing vaguely radioactive I am familiar with is the use of depleted uranium for armor piercing rounds. The material is used for its density and other properties, not its very weak radioactivity.

Cavadus
06-19-2014, 09:39 AM
The comment about radioactive rounds was made by me and I was only referring to U-238 rounds, which AFAIK, are only employed by anti-armor weapons like the 30mm cannons on the A-10 and AH-64, the 25mm autocannon on the Bradley, and of course the M1's sabot rounds.

I don't think any nation has made depleted uranium rifle cartridges yet, though :p

@ crazyged

Love the FAL! I personally own one myself that was manufactured by a company in Illinois called DS Arms off of the old Steyr equipment straight from Austria. I was deployed to El Salvador a few years back and we ran into Argies and Imbels all of the time and I just absolutely fell in love with the rifle :)

Mine is a paratrooper variant with an 18" barrel. I absolutely love it; it destroys the M16/4 in virtually every way. Owning that personally but being issued an M4 for deployments was a real kick in the nuts. Would have much rather carried the FAL when it mattered.

samuelsinn
06-19-2014, 12:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AVISQK3kJ0 my top 2 sniper. the shf 50 bmg rifle with insindiary rounds >.< mmmm love the noise that baby makes when it fires. like listaning to a kitten purrr.