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View Full Version : Episode 3 discussion - The Cord and the Ax (Spoliers)



Nefarious
07-03-2014, 06:36 PM
So we got our first glimpse of the Kaziri ship (maybe that was it) in some weird flash back scene showing Irisa and some other Irath dude talking about being ahead of the Votan Ark Fleet by 3000 years.

The ship was weird looking and had humanoid figures/guessing Votans in Pods. So what that whole thing was about is still up in the air.

As it turns out Irisa hasn't been murdering anyone but rather bonding/infecting select others with the Kelavar. And the reason behind the selection of people who have been targeted is totally unclear.

Datak is out of prison but only so to assist Doc Yewll as her muscle. And are both under of Pottinger's heel big time.

Its only amount of time before Datak snaps. He had no problem and didn't think twice before killing Colonel Marsh. He had no problem with trying to drown his wife. Datak will play the part as a asset for Pottinger but will no doubt revolt in a big way. He is just to crazy and he is not going to change now.

The same can be said with Doc Yewll. Keep in mind before she was just some town Doctor she was keen and calculating mind for the Votan during the Pale Wars that has giving her a big track record. She killed former Mayor Nikki and covered it up to the point that Nolan didn't even know it was a homicide (Fooling Nolan is pretty big because thus far that is the only time throughout the seasons Nolan didn't track or figure out a problem at hand). And Doc Yewll was pretty much the main reason of wiping out a whole Volge army in Episode 1 Season 1. She's pretty bad *** in her own way and not a push over. She is not going to conform to Pottinger in allowing him get anywhere close to the Kaziri, she hasn't let anyone before I don't see her doing it now.

Alastar
07-03-2014, 06:40 PM
Liberata females. Lulz. Dataks hooooooome XD

Cantide8405
07-03-2014, 06:42 PM
And din't forget the Grid. When the Grid showed up in Paradise, it was right after Irisa killed that Casti woman in Angel Arc ( nearby to Paradise ), and now in this episode, we see her alive, and infecting another Casti with the tendrils, much like anyone who's fought the Grid can attest they do to the Raiders and the 99ers, and whoever else they "convert" to the cause.

I mean, sure, the processes look a bit different, but so do Charge Blades between the show and game. Irisa's Patient Zero, and the Grid are her infection.

BJWyler
07-03-2014, 06:47 PM
Interesting episode, and I am looking forward to seeing how more of the overarching storyline crosses over.

I am glad to see Sukar is back, though I am disappointed on how they glossed over his exact return (the nanites went dormant when the threat was over in Season 1). I am also looking forward to Rynn making an appearance in Season 2 as well.

Perhaps it is just me, but I thought the "secret" of the Kaziri would be quite obvious - it was the scout ship sent to begin terraforming Earth - except there was a slight miscalculation in that the Earth already had life when it arrived.

Vega
07-03-2014, 06:49 PM
          

Cantide8405
07-03-2014, 06:50 PM
Interesting episode, and I am looking forward to seeing how more of the overarching storyline crosses over.

I am glad to see Sukar is back, though I am disappointed on how they glossed over his exact return (the nanites went dormant when the threat was over in Season 1). I am also looking forward to Rynn making an appearance in Season 2 as well.

Perhaps it is just me, but I thought the "secret" of the Kaziri would be quite obvious - it was the scout ship sent to begin terraforming Earth - except there was a slight miscalculation in that the Earth already had life when it arrived.

And now, it's making the Grid. Toward what purpose, I'm not sure, but we'll see.

Nefarious
07-03-2014, 07:03 PM
I don't know how the Grid will turn out. Before they were called the Grid they were called Modunauts. And they were made out as 'defensives mechs for the Ark Ships'. Im guessing their purpose was to defend the Arks and the Votan inhabitants as they slept though their journey to Earth. I think that the Grid will still hold this concept but will be malfunctioned causing them to go rouge or are under the control of the Kaziri.

Personally I don't think what Irisa is doing is the cause of the Grid. It could be though, idk.

Thus far in the game all we seen are Volge Ark Breaks that crash. I think normal Ark Breaks will make its way into the game. The interior for those would be that of what we seen in Gun Slinger Ark Crash trial and these Arks will have the Grid inside.

Jack_Pryce
07-03-2014, 08:55 PM
My only question this week was "What is the title referencing?" I couldn't find it on Google anywhere.

Kharnamatic
07-03-2014, 09:45 PM
Uh-oh I guess we're in for an invasion of the body snatchers story this season

BeckAltarr
07-03-2014, 10:53 PM
Good conversation. We are covering the episodes on our Aftermath Monday shows. Feel free to participate with us on K-TAM.

Griffix8
07-03-2014, 11:09 PM
Irisa shot herself...I saw that and I'm like "OH HELL NO! WTF!" Then when it cut to her being alive...F that...Irzu is kind of a jerk (that being in the most polite way as possible....

Escyos
07-04-2014, 12:48 AM
So the Irathient crew stopped the Kaziri from terraforming (or beginning terraforming) by taking over the ship. Maybe thats why it controls Irisa, perhaps she is a descendant of one of the crew members and its a kind of revenge.

ShawnyBee
07-04-2014, 02:59 AM
Really enjoyed this episode. I felt it really ramped up the story. Dataks final scene was awesome.

Despite Bertie only having a few scenes, I liked her. It was nice to see a happy character for a change.

Jack_Pryce
07-04-2014, 05:56 AM
This whole thing has me wondering what the endgame is. Like, what are they gonna use the newly controlled people to do? One thing I liked was that Nolan picked up on it immediately, which is refreshing because most shows simply have them clueless until near the end.

BJWyler
07-04-2014, 08:19 AM
Irisa shot herself...I saw that and I'm like "OH HELL NO! WTF!" Then when it cut to her being alive...F that...Irzu is kind of a jerk (that being in the most polite way as possible....

The whole suicide attempt was a bit of a let down. It was pretty much a given that the Kaziri devices won't let her die, especially after the scenes showing that it is in complete control of her when it wants to be.


So the Irathient crew stopped the Kaziri from terraforming (or beginning terraforming) by taking over the ship. Maybe thats why it controls Irisa, perhaps she is a descendant of one of the crew members and its a kind of revenge.
I don't think its revenge. Essentially, it's just a semi-sentient computer program trying to fulfill the purpose for which it was designed. Take note of the fact that it is only directing Irisa to "save" Votan lifeforms (It appeared that Irisa was going to have to gut Berlin with her dagger until the Kaziri stepped in and overloaded the security system).

My current hypothesis (which I was beginning to flesh out in my Exchange of Debts fan fic), was that the Kaziri was the vanguard for the Votanis System sent ahead to begin the terraforming of Earth in preparation for the larger evacuation of their system. Naturally, someone made a miscalculation and did not realize that Earth was already inhabited. As part of their arrival, the Kaziri and Votan on board gave rise to many of our curious "ancient alien" things that still exist today.

Obviously, the terraforming was not put into motion and the Votan on Earth had no way to communicating back to the home system that Earth would not be suitable. Therefore the plans to make Earth their new home continued. At some point in the intervening years, the Votan scientists assigned to the project discovered that Earth was inhabited, however, a consensus was made to continue with their plans anyway as Earth was the only suitable destination they could find in the time remaining. They kept the truth secret from the other races to avoid complications (hence the general surprise when the fleet finally arrived at Earth to discover it was already populated). No doubt that the Votan selected were expecting to find only the decendants of the original Kaziri crew, if anything at all.

As part of the contingency plan made by the Project Scientists, they came in preparation of hostilities should the inhabitants of Earth prove less than friendly and welcoming (which of course is what ended up happening). Part of that preparation was including bringing the Volge (or at least their DNA) secretly on board to act as the main strike force if needed. Again, that would explain why it was a surprise to find them on board the Arks after arrival.

Right now, the true mystery are the Modaunauts/Grid, and what their purpose would be/is. Perhaps it is because of their involvement that the Ark fleet was destroyed in orbit. Based on some of the dialogue in the episode (and of course what we learned about some other Indo projects last season), the Grid are a result of genetic testing in some form of "terraforming" Votan DNA (hence why the Kaziri says that Irisa is "saving" those she attacks). It could be that the devices implanted in Irisa were meant for the original Kaziri crew to aid them in adjusting to the environs of Earth during and until the terraforming would have been completed.

Lucent
07-04-2014, 11:37 AM
I am totally digging the new season.
I, for one, love the focus on the Tarr family in these first three episodes. Nolan and Irisa kind of are having the same old angst, but the tension in the Tarr family is turned up past 11.
And everything seems more racy than last season. Sex sells? It's working for me!
I'd hit up any three of those Tarrs.
When Datak came home... maaaaan, the drama in the tub. Intense.

internaut
07-04-2014, 01:36 PM
Yep, I digged the last scene with the Tarrs in the tub. That riveting soundtrack just added that chilling punch to whole scenario.

Griffix8
07-04-2014, 01:42 PM
Something is going to happen to Datak. In one of the Sci-Fi interviews I believe the actor had said don't expect to see him all season. The tub scene may make Stahma or even Alak kill him...

Bonehead
07-04-2014, 02:37 PM
If you go to IMDB Datak is only listed as being in 19 of the 26 episodes. Stahma, only 17. I know this could just be due to them not being in every episode but...

Lucent
07-04-2014, 06:15 PM
To me, Defiance IS the Tarrs. Kill any of them and I will........

SOMETHING.

Be super pissed.

They have the most interesting story line together. The dynamic is great.

Bonehead
07-04-2014, 06:20 PM
I have to agree. IMHO the best bad guys on the show are Stahma and Datak. Soooo good at being bad each in their own way.

Luffy490
07-04-2014, 08:14 PM
I wonder what Doc Yewll has up her sleeve. I was surprised that she said she needed someone she can trust, and Datakk becomes her assistant. Maybe she was just doing him a favor... Either way, it led turn a new turn of events in the Tarr family.

Another great episode :cool:

Chocolatelover67
07-04-2014, 08:41 PM
I thought it was Doc Yewell or Mayor Nikki that brought the Volge to Earth

Warhorse500
07-05-2014, 08:15 AM
So the Irathient crew stopped the Kaziri from terraforming (or beginning terraforming) by taking over the ship. Maybe thats why it controls Irisa, perhaps she is a descendant of one of the crew members and its a kind of revenge.



I don't think its revenge. Essentially, it's just a semi-sentient computer program trying to fulfill the purpose for which it was designed. Take note of the fact that it is only directing Irisa to "save" Votan lifeforms (It appeared that Irisa was going to have to gut Berlin with her dagger until the Kaziri stepped in and overloaded the security system).

My current hypothesis (which I was beginning to flesh out in my Exchange of Debts fan fic), was that the Kaziri was the vanguard for the Votanis System sent ahead to begin the terraforming of Earth in preparation for the larger evacuation of their system. Naturally, someone made a miscalculation and did not realize that Earth was already inhabited. As part of their arrival, the Kaziri and Votan on board gave rise to many of our curious "ancient alien" things that still exist today.



Looks like Escyos and BJ beat me to it. I pretty much agree, with one minor detail: I think it might actually be revenge. The short flashback scene alludes to a possible mutiny on the Kaziri...what if this Young Irisa/Irzu/Ghost in the Machine is driving Irisa to carry out the final orders of Kaziri's captain, and taking down all the descendants of the Kaziri mutineers?

There has to be some pattern to the "kills" Irisa is committing...I don't think she's randomly wandering around sticking knives into people. The one problem with this theory is...how does Sukar fit in?

I also agree with the folks who said that Sukar's return is a bit abrupt. C'mon writers/producers...Some exposition is not a bad thing. I will concede that it can be carried on too long, but in this case, you weren't even trying. Go ahead and give us in the audience those two minutes or so to explain what happened.

Love that scene with the Tarrs. That was positively Shakespearean...I still think the eventual end for Stahma will be her alone, wandering in the woods outside Defiance, muttering about how "All this blood...will it not come off?"

Bonehead
07-05-2014, 03:18 PM
Love that scene with the Tarrs. That was positively Shakespearean...I still think the eventual end for Stahma will be her alone, wandering in the woods outside Defiance, muttering about how "All this blood...will it not come off?"

Love the way you said that. Nailed it!

hardy83
07-05-2014, 03:53 PM
Case anyone cares, I wrote down what they said, in English mind you (plot hole), on the Irziri ship we see in the flashback.

Irisa look-alike:
They've barely crossed their own oceans.
Guy:
What about when the rest of the fleet arives, 3000 yeras from now. Their world will advance.
Irisa look-alike:
Irziri was launched ahead of the arks to terraform a barren world, but this is not a barren world.
Guy:
How are we suppose to live there? Amongst aliens?
Irisa look-alike:
Irzu values all life. Or have you forgotten? It's time we seize the ship.

I also have some screencaps of the flashback if anyone cares to look.

Casti napping.
https://imageshack.com/i/mrdcwfp

A lot of napping.
https://imageshack.com/i/ncjvk1p

External ship.
https://imageshack.com/i/msa039p

External ship looking at Earth.
https://imageshack.com/i/nsqmtwp

External ship top view.
https://imageshack.com/i/nr31jxp

Mystery lover.
https://imageshack.com/i/mrt438p

Mystery look-alike.
https://imageshack.com/i/npyzdyp

Nefarious
07-05-2014, 03:56 PM
What Ive been thinking about for a long time now is that how does the Cradle to the Grave cross over mission have anything to do with the show. It was a lead up mission into the show that held no relevance going into Season 2.

Was it just a neat filler mission with some cool lore? Or will the pre season cross over mission have a connection to the show later in the season?

I think... the male that Irisa lookalike/Ancestor was talking to in the Kaziri was William Parraba's lookalike/Ancestor . And the William Parraba we saved in the game is the male Irath mate for the Devouring Mother that the Cult was looking for and he will later have a more meaningful connection.

I always found it so odd that Cradle to the Grave was all about saving William Parraba and how he was unique hybrid yet we never got to see what the guy really looked like. We seriously only got 8 seconds of vague in game footage of William Parraba laying on a medical table even though the whole thing revolved around him.

But those 8 seconds or so showed enough to make me think of the male Irath in the Kaziri was William Parraba because 1 they have the same hair cut. And 2 the male Irath in the Kaziri didn't look like other male Iraths. His features were less protruding.

Idk, its kind of a wacky comparison and the game to the show has been less then accurate with some of the cross overs. But Im predicting it anyway.

Nefarious
07-05-2014, 04:18 PM
Thanks Hardy for posting up screens. I took one of yours and lined it up with William from the game.

http://i.imgur.com/LvwOYaq.jpg

Was Trion trying to make William Parabba look vaguely like this guy?? hmm idk..

Roez
07-05-2014, 06:26 PM
With the holiday and family around, finally had the chance to watch this episode. Really enjoyed it, and didn't find myself wandering off like last weeks. Each scene got the attention it needed for the most part, and they've developed some decently complex plot points. Irisa's thing is shaping up nicely too.

Edit: I also agree with Sukar needing to stay dead or something. That was the one bump when I saw this episode. What's this, the 2nd or 3rd tragedy, of sorts, with this same character? They also move plot points too quickly sometimes, without letting them develop and explaining enough details. Sukar's character is one such victim.

The Tarrs need to stick around. They're half the show's intrigue.

Roez
07-05-2014, 07:06 PM
Also, I can see Jamie Murray winning an Emmy this year. She at least deserves a nomination. She's brilliant.

Chocolatelover67
07-05-2014, 08:22 PM
Love that scene with the Tarrs. That was positively Shakespearean...I still think the eventual end for Stahma will be her alone, wandering in the woods outside Defiance, muttering about how "All this blood...will it not come off?"

She's the alien Lady McBeth............. After all she killed her fiance with an airlock

hardy83
07-05-2014, 10:07 PM
Thanks Hardy for posting up screens. I took one of yours and lined it up with William from the game.

http://i.imgur.com/LvwOYaq.jpg

Was Trion trying to make William Parabba look vaguely like this guy?? hmm idk..

Maybe, but he was the "first" alien-human hybrid. Considering how important that is suppose to be, the fact the show just glosses over Alaks and Christies kid just seems to make it all moot. lol

Luffy490
07-06-2014, 08:45 AM
Maybe, but he was the "first" alien-human hybrid. Considering how important that is suppose to be, the fact the show just glosses over Alaks and Christies kid just seems to make it all moot. lol

Yeah, I was confused when Stahma/Alak found out she was pregnant. It was soo sudden, and I felt like it was thrown in there. I can't argue since they are married, after all :P

Festival
07-06-2014, 08:55 AM
I am totally digging the new season.
I, for one, love the focus on the Tarr family in these first three episodes..

Same here...this is intense stuff! Sure am glad Kat got clear of the whole thing and found a career in professional soccer.

What the hell am I on about? Well...Portland Thorns FC of the National Women's Soccer League have a player named Katarina Tarr on the roster. And yes, she has pale blonde hair. *grin*

http://www.timbers.com/sites/portland/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2014/06/Thorns.vsNY052114.CM151.jpg

Vega
07-06-2014, 11:51 AM
          

Nefarious
07-06-2014, 11:57 AM
Oh yeah! Did anyone catch the song of the week at the end of episode? It's killing me cause it's on the tip of my tongue but I am coming up empty. Are they not doing covers anymore since it was an original?

From what I read its Portishead - Roads.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XmuKtEh2so

Griffix8
07-06-2014, 12:28 PM
Yeah, I was confused when Stahma/Alak found out she was pregnant. It was soo sudden, and I felt like it was thrown in there. I can't argue since they are married, after all :P
I like the expression they had. "You can SMELL it?"

Vega
07-06-2014, 12:40 PM
          

Rokea
07-06-2014, 03:48 PM
Did anyone else bust the **** up when Datak went all pimp on Stahma in the tub?! I laughed so hard that it was nearly unacceptable.

GuzziHero
07-06-2014, 04:17 PM
You know what? If Syfy does not want me to watch their series, I can't be interested in it anymore. Now I feel stupid for actually buying the season 1 DVD and supporting this series.

Edit:
To clarify, I have just spent some considerable time cleaning my PC from some kind of virus which I picked up whilst trying to find some way, any way, to watch Episode 3 from the UK. Hence the frustration expressed above.

Lucent
07-06-2014, 05:31 PM
GOOOAAALLLL!!!!!

Wait I had a question here somewhere...

Oh yeah! Did anyone catch the song of the week at the end of episode? It's killing me cause it's on the tip of my tongue but I am coming up empty. Are they not doing covers anymore since it was an original?

Nefarious is right; it is Roads by Portishead.
I loved the song Sour Times way back when so I just bought the album yesterday so I could listen to that and Roads.